Australian Politics Forum - No Front Line, Chris Masters

Mattyfisk

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #30 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 10:22pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 9:53pm:

Anyone who wishes to believe the Afghan War and the Vietnam War had different dynamics is nit-picking.

After Ho Chi Min, the Northern powerbrokers embraced fanatical communism. The fact that they used nationalism and patriotism to galvanise the people is exactly what the fanatical muzlims do in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As the book so correctly points out. Afghanistan does not exist in the minds of Afghans. To them, the south runs well to the east into fictitious Pakistan territory with Quetta as the capital. Various northern tribes claim chuncks of territory. North and South Vietnam did not exist except in the minds of the geniuses in Washington.

Both Vietnam and the Afghan region have fanatical military support on their borders, which the USA and Australia are afraid to atagonise.

Both wars were fought with the enemy hiding behind civilians, and who, when looking at defeat, chose to throw away their weapons and pretend to be non-combatants.

The Afghan War is about Islam. Islam is what 911 was about, and Bush's invasion of Afghanistan was an attempt to appear to be doing something about that problem. When it became obvious that it would not succeed, he chose to distract us with Saddam, who had already been defeated in first Gulf War.

Not about Islam? Only a dimwit would hope to believe that. Ask the Talibs what they think. Bodies of the enemy where carefully documented when possible. Passports often proved them to be Arabs, Paks, and Chechens who were there to kill infidels. As one soldier said, “We can kill three thousand of them, but the madrases of Pakistan have thee hundred thousand more.” One of the worst cases of an Afghan National Army soldier murdering his Australian allies was justified by saying: We are Muzlims.

What does Chris Masters say about Islam, Issue?

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freediver

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #31 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 10:32pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 10:12pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 9:53pm:

Anyone who wishes to believe the Afghan War and the Vietnam War had different dynamics is nit-picking.

After Ho Chi Min, the Northern powerbrokers embraced fanatical communism. The fact that they used nationalism and patriotism to galvanise the people is exactly what the fanatical muzlims do in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As the book so correctly points out. Afghanistan does not exist in the minds of Afghans. To them, the south runs well to the east into fictitious Pakistan territory with Quetta as the capital. Various northern tribes claim chuncks of territory. North and South Vietnam did not exist except in the minds of the geniuses in Washington.

Both Vietnam and the Afghan region have fanatical military support on their borders, which the USA and Australia are afraid to atagonise.

Both wars were fought with the enemy hiding behind civilians, and who, when looking at defeat, chose to throw away their weapons and pretend to be non-combatants.

The Afghan War is about Islam. Islam is what 911 was about, and Bush's invasion of Afghanistan was an attempt to appear to be doing something about that problem. When it became obvious that it would not succeed, he chose to distract us with Saddam, who had already been defeated in first Gulf War.

Not about Islam? Only a dimwit would hope to believe that. Ask the Talibs what they think. Bodies of the enemy where carefully documented when possible. Passports often proved them to be Arabs, Paks, and Chechens who were there to kill infidels. As one soldier said, “We can kill three thousand of them, but the madrases of Pakistan have thee hundred thousand more.” One of the worst cases of an Afghan National Army soldier murdering his Australian allies was justified by saying: We are Muzlims.

Islam was only peripheral to 11 September. The Terrorists were not well versed in Islam at all, otherwise they would not have accepted Usama bin Laden's claims that Islam allows suicides.

Afghanistan is about a power geo-political power struggle between Pakistan, Iran and the US. It was once about a struggle between Russia and the UK. That then became a power struggle between Russia and Pakistan. The problem is that Afghanistan is the natural invasion route into India. Who ever controls it, controls the land corridor to India. Today, that is largely meaningless but to the locals it has meaning. Islam has little to do with it. Roll Eyes

Today it's a battle between Islam and democracy.

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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Mattyfisk

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #32 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 12:03pm

freediver wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 10:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 10:12pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 9:53pm:

Anyone who wishes to believe the Afghan War and the Vietnam War had different dynamics is nit-picking.

After Ho Chi Min, the Northern powerbrokers embraced fanatical communism. The fact that they used nationalism and patriotism to galvanise the people is exactly what the fanatical muzlims do in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As the book so correctly points out. Afghanistan does not exist in the minds of Afghans. To them, the south runs well to the east into fictitious Pakistan territory with Quetta as the capital. Various northern tribes claim chuncks of territory. North and South Vietnam did not exist except in the minds of the geniuses in Washington.

Both Vietnam and the Afghan region have fanatical military support on their borders, which the USA and Australia are afraid to atagonise.

Both wars were fought with the enemy hiding behind civilians, and who, when looking at defeat, chose to throw away their weapons and pretend to be non-combatants.

The Afghan War is about Islam. Islam is what 911 was about, and Bush's invasion of Afghanistan was an attempt to appear to be doing something about that problem. When it became obvious that it would not succeed, he chose to distract us with Saddam, who had already been defeated in first Gulf War.

Not about Islam? Only a dimwit would hope to believe that. Ask the Talibs what they think. Bodies of the enemy where carefully documented when possible. Passports often proved them to be Arabs, Paks, and Chechens who were there to kill infidels. As one soldier said, “We can kill three thousand of them, but the madrases of Pakistan have thee hundred thousand more.” One of the worst cases of an Afghan National Army soldier murdering his Australian allies was justified by saying: We are Muzlims.

Islam was only peripheral to 11 September. The Terrorists were not well versed in Islam at all, otherwise they would not have accepted Usama bin Laden's claims that Islam allows suicides.

Afghanistan is about a power geo-political power struggle between Pakistan, Iran and the US. It was once about a struggle between Russia and the UK. That then became a power struggle between Russia and Pakistan. The problem is that Afghanistan is the natural invasion route into India. Who ever controls it, controls the land corridor to India. Today, that is largely meaningless but to the locals it has meaning. Islam has little to do with it. Roll Eyes

Today it's a battle between Islam and democracy.

Is this what Chris Masters says, Issue?

Is Iraq the next South Korea?

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92241 Gender:	Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters Reply #33 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 12:14pm Sorry, Issue, the book's called No Front Line. That's 561 pages of spineless apologism right there. Put Chris Masters in the Wiki, FD.
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issuevoter

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #34 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:14pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 12:14pm:

Sorry, Issue, the book's called No Front Line.

That's 561 pages of spineless apologism right there.

Put Chris Masters in the Wiki, FD.

Didn't you try to claim that unity had nothing to do with language? And then you start blathering about Pushtun being what unifies the south. Make up your mind.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #35 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:27pm

issuevoter wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:14pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 12:14pm:

Sorry, Issue, the book's called No Front Line.

That's 561 pages of spineless apologism right there.

Put Chris Masters in the Wiki, FD.

Didn't you try to claim that unity had nothing to do with language? And then you start blathering about Pushtun being what unifies the south. Make up your mind.

Did I? When?

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moses

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #36 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:34pm

Why do people make up these excuses?

Quote:

The Vietnamese only went with communism because they were rejected by Uncle.

Not true as Ho Chi Minh was a dedicated communist an agent of the Comintern.

Quote:

In reality, the North kept the Kremlin at arm's length & The Communists offered real hope to the people,

Two opposing statements from another poster in an attempt to blame the U.S.A.

Who was Ho Chi Minh?

this one says in part

Quote:

Ho Chi Minh first emerged as an outspoken voice for Vietnamese independence while living as a young man in France during World War I. Inspired by the Bolshevik Revolution, he joined the Communist Party and traveled to the Soviet Union. He helped found the Indochinese Communist Party in 1930

he joined the new French Communist Party in 1920 and traveled to Moscow three years later

this one says

Quote:

1923 Ho traveled to Russia for the first time. After subsequent visits, he became
acquainted with the most influential Soviet leaders including Nikolai BUKHARIN,
Leon TROTSKY, and Joseph STALIN. While in Russia, Ho was trained as an agent
of the Comintern*. He studied the thought of Marx and Lenin as well as
organizational and revolutionary techniques.

Comintern: Founded in 1919 by Vladimir Ilyich LENIN in the aftermath of the Russian
Revolution of 1917, the Comintern was dedicated to organizing an international
socialist movement. Comintern agents were deployed throughout the world,
promoting revolution, socialism, and organizing communist branch organizations
abroad.

The world was split into the pro communist and the anti communist factions.

Ho Chi Minh was trying to set up a communist state, he was never going to be accepted as an ally of the free world.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #37 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:46pm

Not at all, Moses.

Quote:

After a meeting with Vietnam’s president Truong Tan Sang on Thursday, President Barack Obama said the following to reporters (emphasis mine):

At the conclusion of the meeting, President Sang shared with me a copy of a letter sent by Ho Chi Minh to Harry Truman. And we discussed the fact that Ho Chi Minh was actually inspired by the US Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and the words of Thomas Jefferson. Ho Chi Minh talks about his interest in cooperation with the United States. And President Sang indicated that even if it’s 67 years later, it’s good that we’re still making progress.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/07/barack-obama-ho-chi-minh-allen-west-...

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moses Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6353	Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters Reply #38 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:58pm So he was a man not to be trusted? Cosying up to the Americans and the Russian Comintern at the same time, founding member of the Indochinese Communist Party.
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Yadda

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #39 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 4:13pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 10:12pm:

Islam was only peripheral to 11 September.

The Terrorists were not well versed in Islam at all, otherwise they would not have accepted Usama bin Laden's claims that Islam allows suicides.

Suicide.

NOT 'suicide' Brian,       IT IS LAYING DOWN YOUR LIFE, IN THE CAUSE OF ALLAH.

Dying while fighting [ 'laying down your life', in 'the cause of Allah'],    JIHAD,    is infinitely more important to Allah, than a believers life in this world.

That,       is emphasised again and again within ISLAMIC religious texts Brian.

------- >

Mohammed, said he can't imagine anything better that dying as a martyr, and being resurrected by Allah, TO FIGHT AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN.

HADITH.....

"The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.053

"The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is! Were it not for some men amongst the believers who dislike to be left behind me and whom I cannot provide with means of conveyance, I would certainly never remain behind any Sariya' (army-unit) setting out in Allah's Cause. By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.054

"The Prophet said, "Nobody who enters Paradise likes to go back to the world even if he got everything on the earth, except a Mujahid who wishes to return to the world so that he may be martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives (from Allah)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.072

< -------

Mohammed here, is    really    talking about demon possession, imo.

KORAN

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Koran 9.111

"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
Koran 4.49

"Those who believed and left their homes and strove for the cause of allah, and those who took them in and helped them - these are the believers in truth. For them is pardon, and bountiful provision."
Koran 8.74

"Unless ye go forth, he will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For allah hath power over all things"
Koran 9.39

"Those who leave their homes in the cause of allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will allah bestow verily a goodly provision: Truly allah is he who bestows the best provision"
Koran 22.58

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

MORE HADITH.....

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari #004.052.065
hadith/bukhari #004.052.080i

n.b.

......"He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause."

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadith/bukhari #001.002.025

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Mattyfisk

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #40 - Jan 19^th, 2018 at 7:11pm

moses wrote on Jan 19^th, 2018 at 2:58pm:

So he was a man not to be trusted?

Cosying up to the Americans and the Russian Comintern at the same time, founding member of the Indochinese Communist Party.

No, Moses, he was doing what Nehru, Jinnah, Nasser and every other Third World leader did during the Cold War. Even Mao wanted to get in with Uncle - by that stage he hated the Soviets.

It's called hedging your bets, dear. When the allies liberated Europe, villagers waved the liberator's flags out their windows, usually hand-painted on sheets. Those villages had painted Soviet AND American flags the night before. They welcomed both.

Uncle Joe, Uncle Sam, or the Nazis.

I know which two flags I'd be painting. You?

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moses

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #41 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 1:26pm

Oh I'd go with the free world, America.

Ho Chi Minh he's a different story he was a commie to the backbone from 1923 on.

You're trying to tell us the v.c with their PLAF, really wanted to be on the same side as America, it's just that the yanks didn't want them?

You say America deliberately kept them offside just to have a war?

You'll pardon me if I say bullshit, won't you

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Brian Ross

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #42 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 1:36pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. What started out as an interesting conversation reverts to pointless name calling, as per usual. Moses, why do you do it?

The world's opinion about Ho Chi Minh has changed markedly from the days when he was called all sorts of inappropriate names and insults. He was a great patriot of Vietnam. He overcame opposition and he freed Vietnam of outside, imperial and hegemonistic rule. He took his country from being dominated by the French and the Americans to one which ruled itself.

He was not subservient to any other nation. Unlike Diem and his successors in the South. He wasn't without problems/errors but he still was a leader. He should be applauded for that. Cool

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Mattyfisk

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #43 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 2:08pm

moses wrote on Jan 20^th, 2018 at 1:26pm:

Oh I'd go with the free world, America.

Ho Chi Minh he's a different story he was a commie to the backbone from 1923 on.

You're trying to tell us the v.c with their PLAF, really wanted to be on the same side as America, it's just that the yanks didn't want them?

You say America deliberately kept them offside just to have a war?

You'll pardon me if I say bullshit, won't you

Of course not. But the Viet Minh was a completely different story. The Viet Cong were funded by the Soviets.

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moses

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Re: No Front Line, Chris Masters
Reply #44 - Jan 20^th, 2018 at 2:15pm

Quote:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. What started out as an interesting conversation reverts to pointless name calling, as per usual. Moses, why do you do it?

Aw gee, now we've resolved the hi diddle diddle that Ho Chi Minh really and truly wanted to be on Americas' side, it's just that America didn't want him, to: Oh you terrible person calling Ho Chi Minh a communist, and disrupting a nice conservation.

Terrible terrible, oh and don't forget I'm an islamophobe as well.

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