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Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out (Read 1496 times)
whiteknight
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Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Jan 17th, 2018 at 7:06am
 
Future Submarine program facing multi-billion-dollar blowout, Senator Rex Patrick says

ABC News
January 17 2018


The cost of Australia's Future Submarine program is likely to blow out by billions of dollars because it is already missing key deadlines, a former defence contractor turned senator has warned.   Sad
Key points:

    Senator Rex Patrick says a professional project manager should be hired to oversee the program
    He says there could be a cost blowout of between $1 and $2 billion based on current evidence
    The Defence Department says the work will be "within approved funding"

In December, Defence confirmed two planning documents due to be released last year had yet to be finalised, but the department insisted there had been "no delays to key milestones" and no "cost or schedule impacts" to the $50 billion project.

Senator Rex Patrick, who once also served as a Royal Australian Navy submariner, has not been convinced and said some military insiders were privately conceding the submarine program was "starting to go a little bit off the rails".   Sad

"Given that the project is running across three to four decades and is a $50 billion program, these sorts of delays, they cascade through — it could be a $1 to $2 billion blowout on the evidence that we have at the moment," Senator Patrick said.   Shocked
Admiral running sub program has 'never run a minor project'

The South Australian politician, who took Nick Xenophon's seat in the Upper House last year, also suggested a professional project manager should replace the senior naval officer currently running the program.

"Rear Admiral [Gregory] Sammut is a highly respected and highly capable naval officer, however he's never run a major project, he's never run a minor project," Senator Patrick said.

"There are a number of highly qualified, highly experienced project managers in the mining industry, in the chemicals industry, in the IT industry that can be brought in to offer assistance for this extremely important program."
Australia's submarine requirements explained
With the winning bidder for Australia's next fleet of submarines announced, attention turns to how DCNS will meet Australia's high endurance requirements.

In a statement, the Defence Department strongly rejected Senator Patrick's warnings of cost blowouts and delays to the program being run with French company Naval Group.

"Requests for proposals have been issued to key equipment suppliers, and the procurement process is progressing to support subsequent design activities," the department said.

"The supporting work required to achieve key milestones continues to be managed ensuring those milestones are met on schedule."

The department added that "all work continues to be conducted within approved funding" including "the development of the Australian Industry Capability Strategy, which will be done by Naval Group".
Senator wanted German shipbuilder

Senior military sources have privately questioned the Senator's motivation for attacking the program, pointing out the South Australian had in the past argued German shipbuilder TKMS should have been awarded the lucrative contract.

Senator Patrick has rejected suggestions he was compromised by his past views or his decision to release leaked documents connected to Naval Group's Scorpene submarine contract with India.

"I have no issue with Naval Group being the selected submarine provider, they are a highly capable submarine design and build company," he said.

"However the program that they've been asked to execute, the program that's been selected by the Prime Minister, is a highly risky program, it's a new design of submarine."   Sad

Naval Group has declined to comment on Senator Patrick's comments.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #1 - Jan 17th, 2018 at 10:50am
 
Well - after throwing
$50BN!!!
out of the Australian economy by off-shoring the job... and we all know that cost blow-outs occur every time - what would you expect?

Competence and intelligent thinking from the Australian Submarines Corporation - look who's feasting out of the public purse on its 'board'..... for doing buggar all?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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macman
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #2 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 7:46am
 
Who honestly expected anything else. This bumbling, incompetent, corrupt pack of fools stuff up everything they touch. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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juliar
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #3 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:09am
 
The downright boring monotonous gloom and doom ineffective BlackDay is now parroting the Lefty biased ABC.
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Prime Minister for Canyons
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #4 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:13am
 
juliar wrote on Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:09am:
The downright boring monotonous gloom and doom ineffective BlackDay is now parroting the Lefty biased ABC.




GIven Senator Patrick used to be in submarines, could you provide any evidence to the effect that he's wrong.


The history of virtually all big military projects is cost blowouts, why should this be any differnet?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #5 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:23am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2018 at 10:50am:
Well - after throwing
$50BN!!!
out of the Australian economy by off-shoring the job... and we all know that cost blow-outs occur every time - what would you expect?

Competence and intelligent thinking from the Australian Submarines Corporation - look who's feasting out of the public purse on its 'board'..... for doing buggar all?


Would've cost about 20% MORE to build a submarine here, Einstein!
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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley
 
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #6 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:24am
 
macman wrote on Jan 18th, 2018 at 7:46am:
Who honestly expected anything else. This bumbling, incompetent, corrupt pack of fools stuff up everything they touch. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Whereas the ALP never stuff up anything, do they?  Cheesy
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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #7 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 3:48pm
 
Senator Patrick apparently has a past history with Rear-Admiral Sammut.  They don't get on.   No wonder he has his dagger out.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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juliar
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #8 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 7:34pm
 
Gosh the gloom and doom BlackDay whose boring monotonous failed attempts at sensationalizing quite trivial events is being systematically banished to the backroom.

GetUp! is downright evil.
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Jasin
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #9 - Jan 19th, 2018 at 7:57am
 
Submarines are definitely the way to go for the success of Australia's military future (hell, we managed to send James Cameron down the Marianna Trench 13kms via a submersible we built in Pyrmont!).
Especially when the USA is the Ruler of the Skies.

But spending $50billion on overseas to do it for us - seems a bit 'lazy' in my view.
Australia used to build heaps of stuff out of the Docks/Slipways of Whyalla years ago.
I think the 'Blow Out' will be more each year - 'they' have us over the coals now.

I think France won the contract over Japan & Germany.
But I think France will 'fold' on the deal due to their dramas with Islam soon.
Where will that leave Australia?

Lazy Australia - too lazy to do it's 'own work', employ its own brainpower and more.
Typical Political/Military stupidity from Australia.

James Cameron knew who to see in Australia to build something great!
Shame Australian Politicians/Military Chief's haven't got a clue who to see in their own country!  Roll Eyes

IDIOTS!
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 1:56pm
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:13am:
juliar wrote on Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:09am:
The downright boring monotonous gloom and doom ineffective BlackDay is now parroting the Lefty biased ABC.




GIven Senator Patrick used to be in submarines, could you provide any evidence to the effect that he's wrong.


The history of virtually all big military projects is cost blowouts, why should this be any differnet?



Only the ones we either build ourselves or when we think we know better than the country that built them and demand changes.


Our acquisition of the F18- Super Hornets, on time and on budget, same with the Globe Master. Compare that to the aircraft we assemble or modify here.

Same with all high tech acquisitions, as soon as we try and make it better we only make it more expensive.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #11 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 3:09pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Jan 21st, 2018 at 1:56pm:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:13am:
juliar wrote on Jan 18th, 2018 at 9:09am:
The downright boring monotonous gloom and doom ineffective BlackDay is now parroting the Lefty biased ABC.




GIven Senator Patrick used to be in submarines, could you provide any evidence to the effect that he's wrong.


The history of virtually all big military projects is cost blowouts, why should this be any differnet?



Only the ones we either build ourselves or when we think we know better than the country that built them and demand changes.

Our acquisition of the F18- Super Hornets, on time and on budget, same with the Globe Master. Compare that to the aircraft we assemble or modify here.

Same with all high tech acquisitions, as soon as we try and make it better we only make it more expensive.


When we buy COTS products we save because of economies of scale.  However, invariably COTS products are found to not satisfy our unique needs and requirements.   Therefore, we often attempt to introduce changes to suit those needs and requirements.  However, changes cost more money because more design time is required to satisfy them.    The alternative is, we design and manufacture things ourselves.   However, our defence market tends to be too small and as such we do not benefit from economies of scale.

We have, in the past designed and manufactured excellent defence products - the Jindivik - the longest running drone programme in the world.   The Collins Class while based on a foreign design was made larger and longer ranged.   The HOBART class AAW Destroyers.   Invariably, most home grown designs have fallen beside the way because of cost and unfortunately, cultural cringe.

Some COTS work adequately in Australian conditions - aircraft and ships in particular.   AFVs however tend to require special care, not designed for the rigours of the Australian environment.   Small arms is another success story.

We are also facing the problem all too often of a lack of political will.    The Liberals once proclaimed that they were going to stop domestic manufacture of all defence equipment before the Howard Government was elected.  Once elected, that policy changed to where we are today - the Tories are desperate to hang onto their few South Australian seats and see defence manufacturing as their only lifeline.   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Jasin
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Re: Future Submarine Program Facing Cost Blow Out
Reply #12 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 7:39pm
 
Yes - kinda ironic from the Politicians. Turnbull pumping out 'innovation' adverts and yet they are the first ones to 'sell out' to overseas.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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