Australian Politics Forum - Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.

Lord Herbert

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Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Jan 14^th, 2018 at 8:00am

Once again the Australian Appeals Tribunal over-turns Peter Dutton's order to have a violent criminal deported.

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"Minister for Immigration and Border Protection Peter Dutton fought the decision.

A delegate of Mr Dutton's argued the man was a danger to the community and refused his request for a protection visa.

AAT deputy president Brian Rayment overturned that decision".

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57150 Here Gender:	Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. Reply #1 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 8:23am Apparently Dutton enjoys sending people to their death.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 57150 Here Gender:	Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. Reply #2 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 8:25am Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 8:23am: [quote]Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. This decision making process should not be the option of a politician in the first place.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Reply #3 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 12:39pm

Dutton is a child in politics... and is not alone there. It is the place of the relevant government organisation to make those decisions, and they are not the personal province of an elected representative or minister.

It seems that the LNP in particular is pursuing some form of the 'cult of personality' and is seeking to dupe the voting public into thinking that the Gauleiter for anything has some ultimate power and right. This is a very dangerous path to tread and leads directly to despotism and arbitrary control over anyone at any time, with or without valid reason, by a very small minority who assume they know better.

We are supposed to assume that Dutton is some kind of omnipotent 'man on a horse' who can dictate every move of his appointed fiefdom..... I personally find him laughable....

Such an approach is decidedly anti-democratic.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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lee

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Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Reply #4 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 12:46pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 8:23am:

Apparently Dutton enjoys sending people to their death.

"The man, known only as BHKM, claimed he could face extrajudicial killing if he was deported back to the Philippines, the Herald Sun reported. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5265929/Ice-addict-wins-appeal-against-d...

So now we can't deport in case they are subject to vigilante justice? Bizarre.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Reply #5 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 2:04pm

lee wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 12:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 8:23am:

Apparently Dutton enjoys sending people to their death.

"The man, known only as BHKM, claimed he could face extrajudicial killing if he was deported back to the Philippines, the Herald Sun reported. "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5265929/Ice-addict-wins-appeal-against-d...

So now we can't deport in case they are subject to vigilante justice? Bizarre.

BKHM? Boho Karam? Cheesy

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. Reply #6 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 2:27pm Dutton is deporting these criminals for a very good reason, they represent a real danger to the Australian Public So what if the crim is scared for his life in the Philippines, better for them to have him there than here Its called Karma
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Reply #7 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 5:19pm

Dutton is there to show leadership in his role as Minister, and final decisions are left to his discretion as it has always been no matter what party has been in office. It's called 'Ministerial Discretion'.

He's entirely correct to rid this country of a serial offender who has been a blight and a criminal parasite upon Australian society for all of his life.

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Bias_2012 Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 10300 Gender:	Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. Reply #8 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 6:18pm I'm sure our immigration program is only there just to keep the cops and the courts in work There's a lot of "New Australians" getting booked lately. "Enriching" is taking on a new meaning, but it's anyone's guess what it is
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freediver

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Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Reply #9 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 6:44pm

This bureaucracy was established by not just individual politicians, but acts of elected governments, with the explicit intention of restricting the essentially bureaucratic power of individual MPs. While it is not part of the court system, it is a good analog of the judiciary and it's decisions are subject to judicial review.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Reply #10 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 9:07pm

Peter Dutton's intention to have this recidivist criminal returned to the Philippines did not transgress any laws, and so the decision of the AAT has been purely one of exercising whimsical discretion in the same way as Parole Boards operate.

The AAT has no more moral or judicial superiority with their subjective decisions than does Peter Dutton, and it's time this collection of un-elected liberal-progressives was stripped of its powers except in the most extreme of cases. There wouldn't be a solitary individual working for the AAT who isn't a committed Lefty of the sort who work for the ABC.

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. Reply #11 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 10:20pm What about the ferals in the Senate blocking govt legislation ?
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philperth2010

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Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats.
Reply #12 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 11:11pm

freediver wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 6:44pm:

This bureaucracy was established by not just individual politicians, but acts of elected governments, with the explicit intention of restricting the essentially bureaucratic power of individual MPs. While it is not part of the court system, it is a good analog of the judiciary and it's decisions are subject to judicial review.

In a nut shell!!!

Smiley

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 80190 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. Reply #13 - Jan 14^th, 2018 at 11:25pm juliar wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 10:20pm: What about the ferals in the Senate blocking govt legislation ? What about the Senate blocking feral govt legislation?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47352 At my desk.	Re: Elected politicians being stymied by bureaucrats. Reply #14 - Jan 15^th, 2018 at 8:27am The government could disband it overnight if they wanted to. But not Peter Dutton acting on his own. I expect they do not want to be perceived as responsible if this dealer gets lynched.
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