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'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied (Read 1677 times)
Yadda
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'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Jan 12th, 2018 at 11:24am
 

'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied'.
aka the spirit realm!





'The Unseen Realm'
         is a body of work, by Mike Heiser, which examines the concepts of 'God' and the spirit realm ['the unseen realm'], as presented, in [Hebrew & N.T.] scripture, and from other ancient sources.


As a 'lead-in' to this material, and to the examination of this work by Mike Heiser, i would suggest you first listen to this online audio.
     ------ >

audio source....
VFTB 277: Mike Heiser – The Unseen Realm

September 30, 2015
http://www.vftb.net/?p=5950
n.b. there is a hi-fidelity version, and a smaller, lower-fidelity version of the audio.
the smaller, lower-fidelity version of the mp3 of this conversation is completely adequate.
http://ia801509.us.archive.org/1/items/derekpaulgilbert_gmail_Vftb/vftb277_low.m...


'The Unseen Realm'
is a book by Mike Heiser
http://theunseenrealm.com/
http://drmsh.com/

Amazon page....
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1577995562




The information presented by Dr. Michael S. Heiser, is all very interesting and challenging  [esp. to Christians], especially to those with 'traditional' religious conceptions about 1/ 'the person of God' and 2/ the social 'purpose' of mainstream human religion !!!

The start of this exploration started when Mike Heiser's attention was focused upon the contents of Psalms 82 and Psalms 89.



.



I await the disparaging post from --issuevoter-- insisting that this material has no place on the Philosophy board.

Tongue




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Vulcan
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #1 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:43pm
 
Spirituality is really the expression of 'Fashion'
("...and they came to know they were naked in the garden, etc, etc").
To which the Middle-east really kicked off the emphasis of importance which 'Fashion' is.
Fashion describes and expresses who the person is and how they feel about themselves. In essence, Fashion is the true form of Spirituality.

Sadly, the misuse of the word 'Spiritual' has been exposed in this modern century to be an excuse for anything and mostly that 'anything' has been a very vague expression for both excuse and 'fictional'. It also is a word used to declare someone 'better' than another ...but falls short unless some 'visual' representation is given. Hence why Spirituality (Fashion), although the 'partner' of Religion, is also closely related to Art (Visual).

So to use 'Spiritual' as a word to describe the vague fictionalities of 'other' existences that may or may not be real - is just a cop out or misrepresentation (because the ability to describe better is not there).

The true 'Spirit Realm' is a Fashionable one, not some 'plausible' other existence like a castle in the clouds and fairies under mushrooms.
In other words - Hallucinations, Mirages and imaginings are NOT 'spirit realms'.

Sorry Yadda, but you are barking up the wrong tree there.
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Yadda
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #2 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 6:31pm
 
Vulcan wrote on Jan 12th, 2018 at 1:43pm:
Spirituality is really the expression of 'Fashion'....


The true 'Spirit Realm' is a Fashionable one, not some 'plausible' other existence like a castle in the clouds and fairies under mushrooms.

In other words - Hallucinations, Mirages and imaginings are NOT 'spirit realms'.


Sorry Yadda, but you are barking up the wrong tree there.





Vulcan,

Ah, i can see that you are a person who approves of the rigorous scientific modus, of acquiring true knowledge.


Hmmmmm, yes,

The spirit realm.

We can't see it, feel it, touch it.

Therefore, the 'spirit realm' does not exist.



ARGUMENT;
For thousands of years, mankind had no knowledge of the       ACTUAL     existence of radio waves [even naturally produced radio waves].

Can't see em, can't feel em, can't touch em.

Therefore, radio waves did not exist.       [.....before the invention of devices which could detect radio waves.]

The scientific modus has been applied.




Another simple example....

Go outside, and look up at the sky on a cloudless, sunny day.

That sky is full of stars.

Because we cannot see them [during daylight], does not prove that the stars are not up there, in the sky.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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issuevoter
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #3 - Jan 14th, 2018 at 8:21am
 
A scientific approach to "spirituality" is a contradiction in terms, whether you believe such stuff or not. The human condition is one of neurosis in varying forms and degrees. Gods and "spirituality" are thought manifestations of neurosis, and for those cases in particular, elaborate justification is common, and perhaps better than none, but a claim of an esoteric perception of reality is required.
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Yadda
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #4 - Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:04pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 8:21am:

A scientific approach to "spirituality" is a contradiction in terms, whether you believe such stuff or not.

The human condition is one of neurosis in varying forms and degrees.

Gods and "spirituality" are thought          manifestations of neurosis,          and for those cases in particular, elaborate justification is common, and perhaps better than none, but a claim of an esoteric perception of reality is required.




Making the text of the whole bible in particular [66 books] one of teh longest and most dedicated 'manifestations of neurosis' produced by humanity.

/sarc off



And yet throughout much of human history,          many, many human beings have been able to find solace and peace and spiritual guidance, within the breadth of its pages.

The Holy Bible is a healing book.
....to the soul of many of those who undertake to read its words.




Psalms 23:1
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2  He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3  He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5  Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.


Psalms 51:7
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8  Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9  Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10  Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12  Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13  Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.


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« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:10pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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issuevoter
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #5 - Jan 14th, 2018 at 4:36pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 12:04pm:
issuevoter wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 8:21am:

A scientific approach to "spirituality" is a contradiction in terms, whether you believe such stuff or not.

The human condition is one of neurosis in varying forms and degrees.

Gods and "spirituality" are thought          manifestations of neurosis,          and for those cases in particular, elaborate justification is common, and perhaps better than none, but a claim of an esoteric perception of reality is required.




Making the text of the whole bible in particular [66 books] one of teh longest and most dedicated 'manifestations of neurosis' produced by humanity.

/sarc off



And yet throughout much of human history,          many, many human beings have been able to find solace and peace and spiritual guidance, within the breadth of its pages.

The Holy Bible is a healing book.
....to the soul of many of those who undertake to read its words.




Psalms 23:1
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2  He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3  He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5  Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.


Psalms 51:7
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8  Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9  Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10  Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12  Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13  Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.



So what? That solace blather is a neurotic fixation. And it requires you to claim that there is more than one level of reality, the perception of which is esoteric. That's a lie. A further lie is that this guidance of yours actually leads somewhere. The arrogance of your claim to special cosmic information is astonishing, and at the same time it is an insult to your own intelligence.
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.JaSin.
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #6 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 9:28pm
 
Religion was formulated in the Middle-East Yadda.
The Middle-East then wrote 'three' Holy Books based upon the other three surrounding 'Old Worlds' of Asia, Europe & Africa.
Christianity is themed upon the influence of Europe.
The obvious connection is seen through Christianity's two main aspects of 'Healing' and the 'Last Supper'.
Now Europe has influenced the world with its Medical Industry and Culinary Food Industry.
You could say that both are Europe's 'Gifts' to the World.
What was once a Sword, is now a Scalpel and a Chef's knife.

Basically - Europe was the 'true' Healer, not Christianity.
The threat of such a cultural aspect was what drove 'Religion' to persecute all the actual real 'healers' in Witches (originally also 'male' healers, especially in the Slavic regions), Druids and even the Romans had 'surgeons'.

When I worked in the Medical Industry. If there was 'paperwork' to be done, I would turn to the guy next to me and ask if he was a Christian? If he said 'yes'. Then I would shove the paperwork to him and say "Here - you can do the paperwork then!".

You can 'write' a book on 'Healing' - but let the Medical Professionals do the actual 'healing'  Wink
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Yadda
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #7 - Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:49am
 
.JaSin. wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
Religion was formulated in the Middle-East Yadda.

'Religion' wasn't formulated in the Middle-East JaSin.
'Religion' is a        concept,        which has many variants and which have their origins from within the human psyche.




The Middle-East then wrote 'three' Holy Books based upon the other three surrounding 'Old Worlds' of Asia, Europe & Africa.

'The Middle-East' didn't write anything.
'The Middle-East' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA.




Christianity is themed upon the influence of Europe.

No, it isn't.
'Europe' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA.
Modern Christianity is 'themed' upon human hierarchical influence and control, of political influence.




The obvious connection is seen through Christianity's two main aspects of 'Healing' and the 'Last Supper'.

Healing, is what 1/ 'environment' and 2/ time and 3/ our body does, for us, if we allow it.
The 'Last Supper' isn't an 'aspect'.
Some believe that it was a historical event.




Now Europe has influenced the world with its Medical Industry and Culinary Food Industry.

JaSin, has pharma had some influence upon your consciousness ?
Or are you a BOT ?




You could say that both are Europe's 'Gifts' to the World.

No, no.    'Europe' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA.
Europe does not 'bestow' anything, Europe [the continent] just is.




What was once a Sword, is now a Scalpel and a Chef's knife.

Oh i see, a sword transforms itself, into other objects.
JaSin i ask again, has pharma had some influence upon your consciousness ?




Basically - Europe was the 'true' Healer, not Christianity.

JaSin once again, 'Europe' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA,      not      a 'Medical Professional'.




The threat of such a cultural aspect was what drove 'Religion' to persecute all the actual real 'healers' in Witches (originally also 'male' healers, especially in the Slavic regions), Druids and even the Romans had 'surgeons'.

Oh, is that so ?
[reader, i would suggest that pharma has had some influence upon this persons consciousness.
it would be best     NOT     to follow his example.]




When I worked in the Medical Industry. If there was 'paperwork' to be done, I would turn to the guy next to me and ask if he was a Christian? If he said 'yes'. Then I would shove the paperwork to him and say "Here - you can do the paperwork then!".

"When I worked...."     JaSin, Are you certain, that you weren't a patient there ?
Do you still have some pay slips, as a tangible proof of your 'employment' there ?
JaSin, Q. What pharma are you currently prescribed by your 'employer' ?




You can 'write' a book on 'Healing' - but let the Medical Professionals do the actual 'healing'  Wink

JaSin, i've told you 'healing' is accomplished through 1/ 'environment' and 2/ time and 3/ processes within our body.







JaSin,

You post a LOT of rambling tosh.

Look it up.



My advise; STOP WITH THE PHARMA      JaSin.


p.s.
JaSin,      If you have a high confidence in the competency of 'Medical Professionals', then i would suggest that you proceed along that path yourself, and submit yourself to their care.

Q. Do the staff at your 'facility', know that you have access to the office computer at night ?

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« Last Edit: Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:56am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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.JaSin.
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #8 - Jan 17th, 2018 at 8:38pm
 
Yadda wrote on Jan 16th, 2018 at 11:49am:
.JaSin. wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 9:28pm:
Religion was formulated in the Middle-East Yadda.

'Religion' wasn't formulated in the Middle-East JaSin.
'Religion' is a        concept,        which has many variants and which have their origins from within the human psyche.




The Middle-East then wrote 'three' Holy Books based upon the other three surrounding 'Old Worlds' of Asia, Europe & Africa.

'The Middle-East' didn't write anything.
'The Middle-East' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA.




Christianity is themed upon the influence of Europe.

No, it isn't.
'Europe' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA.
Modern Christianity is 'themed' upon human hierarchical influence and control, of political influence.




The obvious connection is seen through Christianity's two main aspects of 'Healing' and the 'Last Supper'.

Healing, is what 1/ 'environment' and 2/ time and 3/ our body does, for us, if we allow it.
The 'Last Supper' isn't an 'aspect'.
Some believe that it was a historical event.




Now Europe has influenced the world with its Medical Industry and Culinary Food Industry.

JaSin, has pharma had some influence upon your consciousness ?
Or are you a BOT ?




You could say that both are Europe's 'Gifts' to the World.

No, no.    'Europe' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA.
Europe does not 'bestow' anything, Europe [the continent] just is.




What was once a Sword, is now a Scalpel and a Chef's knife.

Oh i see, a sword transforms itself, into other objects.
JaSin i ask again, has pharma had some influence upon your consciousness ?




Basically - Europe was the 'true' Healer, not Christianity.

JaSin once again, 'Europe' is a GEOGRAPHIC AREA,      not      a 'Medical Professional'.




The threat of such a cultural aspect was what drove 'Religion' to persecute all the actual real 'healers' in Witches (originally also 'male' healers, especially in the Slavic regions), Druids and even the Romans had 'surgeons'.

Oh, is that so ?
[reader, i would suggest that pharma has had some influence upon this persons consciousness.
it would be best     NOT     to follow his example.]




When I worked in the Medical Industry. If there was 'paperwork' to be done, I would turn to the guy next to me and ask if he was a Christian? If he said 'yes'. Then I would shove the paperwork to him and say "Here - you can do the paperwork then!".

"When I worked...."     JaSin, Are you certain, that you weren't a patient there ?
Do you still have some pay slips, as a tangible proof of your 'employment' there ?
JaSin, Q. What pharma are you currently prescribed by your 'employer' ?




You can 'write' a book on 'Healing' - but let the Medical Professionals do the actual 'healing'  Wink

JaSin, i've told you 'healing' is accomplished through 1/ 'environment' and 2/ time and 3/ processes within our body.







JaSin,

You post a LOT of rambling tosh.

Look it up.



My advise; STOP WITH THE PHARMA      JaSin.


p.s.
JaSin,      If you have a high confidence in the competency of 'Medical Professionals', then i would suggest that you proceed along that path yourself, and submit yourself to their care.

Q. Do the staff at your 'facility', know that you have access to the office computer at night ?



Sorry Yadda.
Didn't mean to 'bring you down to Earth'.
But sadly for you, I know A LOT about Religion(s).
Everything falls into its place.

Judaism, Christianity, Mohommedism (why just 3?)
are to Monotheism as a whole,
like what Catholicism, Orthodox and Protestantism
is to Christianity as a whole.

Everything is 'explainable' - sorry to spoil your empowerment via being ...mysterious/enigmatic/etc.

Everything I've said is valid.
Just like the 'three' Holy Books are a reflection of the three 'Age' brackets of a person.
Youth, Adult, Elder.
But hey - that's why the world is stuffed up: because people can't change (convert) from childhood, into adulthood - for starters.  Grin

I know MORE about Religion as a 'whole' than you Yadda.
I don't need to quote 'minor details' to do so either.
I see the BIG PICTURE - you know, the one that has ALL THREE Religions 'in the bag'!  Wink
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John_Taverner
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #9 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:09am
 
You missed one - The Book of Mormon.

If you hurry, you can still get tickets for it.  Grin
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.JaSin.
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #10 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 11:22pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 10:09am:
You missed one - The Book of Mormon.

If you hurry, you can still get tickets for it.  Grin


Welcome back JT. But you might be a tad late to keep your Business Class seat.

Book of Mormon?
Oh yeah. As one American said to me "We know its a piece of crap - but its 'Made in America'!"

I'm pretty sure Mormonism WILL BE the premier Religion in North America in years to come.

Personally, it will take the 'Religions' (to come) of the New Worlds of Namerica, Samerica & Sahul (Australia) to bring forth the 'true' Religion of the Middle-East.
The Religions of Judaism (for Asia), Christianity (for Europe) & Mohommedism (for Africa) - FAIL the Middle-East and are reflections of the PAST, not it's Future.
Plus - Asia, Europe & Africa seem to 'play ball' more with the New World region of Oceania ...and it's 'science' these days  Wink

Yep - I know my sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet  Wink
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #11 - Jan 21st, 2018 at 8:03am
 
Human beings have always been consumed with vanity. But the worst of it is not about themselves, its about human prowess. The proof that such esteem is unjustified is the continuing preponderance of opinion crediting a tiered reality. Put simply, we don't believe our own eyes.
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Yadda
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Re: 'The Unseen Realm', the realm of the 'dis-embodied
Reply #12 - Feb 19th, 2018 at 8:59am
 


Dr. Michael Heiser Phd. ~ "The Unseen Realm" on Skywatch TV
        4h 14 min      1639 mb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V15K3CpOmxM





This YT is a compilation of different interview sessions between Derek Gilbert at Skywatch TV, and  author Dr. Michael Heiser,
speaking to the contents of his book, "The Unseen Realm".

It is 4 h  15 mins  long !!!

Many interesting biblical subjects are covered/touched on.

If you can find the time, it is a worthy watch, imo.




8 min 20 sec            God's plan is to use believers to take dominion over every place

14 min 20 sec            [hostility of arab peoples, towards Israel] the deep radicalisation, to me, is something driven by hostile supernatural powers

1 h      12 mins            the slaughter of the original inhabitants of the land, is NOT indicative of a God who is killing for joy

1 h      41 mins            why did God order the Israelites, during the conquest of Canaan, to wipe out every living thing ?

1 h      53 mins            the order for the Israelites, to slaughter the Canaanites, it is about life, or death. and atheists critical of the order for the Israelites, to slaughter the Canaanites, are hypocrites, and here is why.....

2 h      33 mins            if you already have a good amount of bible 'under your belt'....thats a really good place to start [coming to the book]

2 h      55 mins            explicitly stated in scripture; the Lord God has no confidence in his celestial servants!

3 h      13 mins            the Hebrews are accused of copying their religion from Mesopotamian texts.      is this true ?


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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