Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 35 36 37 38 39 ... 47
Send Topic Print
9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims (Read 17492 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #540 - Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:53pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Argh, aye - if 9% of prison inmates are Muslims when their population ratio is only 2.9% - that means that around 45%+ of prison inmates will be Muslims if their population rate is 15%....

Argh, aye - best put 'em to work on the road chain gangs now and set a precedent.


You have no evidence that the rate of incarceration is 9% of 1%, Graps.  Give it a rest.  You're just attempting to stir the pot and it isn't working.   Until you present firm evidence - with sources - which are checkable - you just pulling those numbers out of thin air.   Tsk, tsk.  I though better of you.  I did.   Roll Eyes


I tossed you the WA figures... Tasmania has a couple of thousand Muslims, NT the same, SA has a similar small minority ..... their input re prison inmate figures will not significantly alter the experience of the most populous states.

Would you be happy if we said it was only 8%? 7%?  Even 6% (a laughable figure given the majority states)? How low would you demand that it go given the fact that the experience of the most populous states is 9%, and any numbers in those tiny minority states will not materially affect that figure?

That's not stirring, Brian, unless you are totally paranoid - that's just stating simple realities and dealing with reason and logic.

The tiny minority Muslim population states are welcome to add their figures any time.... if they have the balls... it seems their Muslims are such an insignificant minority that their governments don't even bother, so it's not a matter of discrimination, it's a matter of fact.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #541 - Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:56pm
 
I'll turn the page.. I'll turn the page....

...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #542 - Jan 14th, 2018 at 11:01pm
 
Even if you can beat it down to 5% - nearly half that of the majority population states - they are still over-represented in prison populations across Australia in relation to their population percentage .....

That is the essence of the story.

We can now stop this ridiculous argument.... and try to address real issues of Islam in the West.

P.S.  And I will say again - that approximately 9% is primarily Middle Eastern Muslims or their immediate descendants - which is another story in itself, and actually makes the figures much worse for that particular demographic.  Very few Muslims from Borneo are in prison etc, due to a (wait for it) different cultural adaptation of Islam.   Huh
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:52pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #543 - Jan 14th, 2018 at 11:08pm
 
.. and if you nearly exclude the secular Turks and Bosnians.. you are left with a massive percentage of Middle Eastern Muslims who are prison inmates......

It has nothing to do with discrimination - it has everything to do with criminal behaviour.  Brian - do you have any idea what a cop in Campsie has to go through to arrest a single Muslim?  I had occasion to report a licensed pistol stolen from my home one time at Campsie (I lived in a nearby White suburb but that was the local station) - and the cop who took the report said:- "We have 2000 break-ins a week here!"  I reported an abduction I saw on the street - the cops just ignored it, saying he probably looked sideways at their sister or something..... he'll either show up dead or back on the streets.

Don't tell me about Muslims and criminality .. and with increasing radicalisation from their clergy and an amazing sense of entitlement brought on by their 'only' religion and it's 'total virtue' compared to everyone else, that can only get worse here.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39385
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #544 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:42pm
 
Setanta wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Argh, aye - if 9% of prison inmates are Muslims when their population ratio is only 2.9% - that means that around 45%+ of prison inmates will be Muslims if their population rate is 15%....

Argh, aye - best put 'em to work on the road chain gangs now and set a precedent.


You have no evidence that the rate of incarceration is 9% of 1%, Graps.  Give it a rest.  You're just attempting to stir the pot and it isn't working.   Until you present firm evidence - with sources - which are checkable - you just pulling those numbers out of thin air.   Tsk, tsk.  I though better of you.  I did.   Roll Eyes


Now you may say the rate of incarceration of the followers of Islam in NSW is not representative of Australia as a whole but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Australia
Quote:
Muslims are over-represented in jails in New South Wales, at 9% to 10% of the prison population, compared to less than 3% within the NSW population.[274][275]


You know how to check the reference at wiki, I'm sure.


Interesting.  Did you check the references yourself?  As with the previous references there is no reference to "9%" or any other rate.  This "9% to 10%" rate of incarceration appears to have been plucked from thin air.  It is not mentioned in any of the Wikipedia references which are appended to it.

However, one reference, Ethnic Minorities and Crime in Australia: Moral Panic or Meaningful Policy Responses by Jock Collins does provide very interesting reading indeed.  I'd recommend all who are partaking in this debate reading it.  It appears many here are engaging in a moral panic.  One inflamed by media and political speculation for their own ends.   Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39385
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #545 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:46pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:53pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Argh, aye - if 9% of prison inmates are Muslims when their population ratio is only 2.9% - that means that around 45%+ of prison inmates will be Muslims if their population rate is 15%....

Argh, aye - best put 'em to work on the road chain gangs now and set a precedent.


You have no evidence that the rate of incarceration is 9% of 1%, Graps.  Give it a rest.  You're just attempting to stir the pot and it isn't working.   Until you present firm evidence - with sources - which are checkable - you just pulling those numbers out of thin air.   Tsk, tsk.  I though better of you.  I did.   Roll Eyes


I tossed you the WA figures... Tasmania has a couple of thousand Muslims, NT the same, SA has a similar small minority ..... their input re prison inmate figures will not significantly alter the experience of the most populous states.

Would you be happy if we said it was only 8%? 7%?  Even 6% (a laughable figure given the majority states)? How low would you demand that it go given the fact that the experience of the most populous states is 9%, and any numbers in those tiny minority states will not materially affect that figure?

That's not stirring, Brian, unless you are totally paranoid - that's just stating simple realities and dealing with reason and logic.

The tiny minority Muslim population states are welcome to add their figures any time.... if they have the balls... it seems their Muslims are such an insignificant minority that their governments don't even bother, so it's not a matter of discrimination, it's a matter of fact.



Graps, I don't care what numbers you use - as long as they can be verified in checkable sources.  I have thus far checked the sources offered.  None of them contain this mysterious "9%" figure.  It has been, as far as I can tell, plucked from the air.  Tsk, tsk.   Me questioning this appears to have upset some people.  Tough.   Until I can verified the number, it remains suspect.    Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #546 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:50pm
 
https://www.unisa.edu.au/Global/EASS/MnM/Publications/Australian_Muslims_Report_...

"Prisoner statistics broken down by religion are not publically available in Australia. But Muslims in Australian prisons are often discussed in public debates on nationalism and radicalisation.
Muslims comprise 3.2% of the NSW population but 9.3% of the state prison population, according to the NSW
Corrective Services 2013 Census (Khoury 2014).............
........ "According to Corrections Victoria, as of 27 April 2015 there were 507 Muslim prisoners in Victoria. The total prison population is around 6300 prisoners. This shows that, while 2.9% of Victorians were Muslim, 8% of prisoners in Victoria were Muslims. "
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39948
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #547 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 6:23pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 5:56pm:


Hands up everyone with absolutely NO SENSE OF HUMOUR.

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Valkie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 16088
Central Coast
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #548 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 6:58pm
 
So funny

Muzzos on chain gangs

As, if, they are all disabled if you go off their WELFARE stats.

This muzzo went into centalink one day and said.
"I want a job"

The centalink workers at up straight and shuffled some papers.
He said
"I have just the job for you, it pays 120k a year, you only have to work 20 hours a week and you can work from home."

The muzzo smiled and said.
"Your joking?"

The centalink worker said.
"Well, you started it"
Back to top
 

I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39948
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #549 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 8:18pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 10:15pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
Argh, aye - if 9% of prison inmates are Muslims when their population ratio is only 2.9% - that means that around 45%+ of prison inmates will be Muslims if their population rate is 15%....

Argh, aye - best put 'em to work on the road chain gangs now and set a precedent.


You have no evidence that the rate of incarceration is 9% or 1%, Graps.  Give it a rest.  You're just attempting to stir the pot and it isn't working.   Until you present firm evidence - with sources - which are checkable - you just pulling those numbers out of thin air.   Tsk, tsk.  I though better of you.  I did.   Roll Eyes

We have no evidence that you are a sane, genuine person, Bwian.

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Grendel
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #550 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 8:53pm
 
bwian is just being a disingenuous prat...  some call that a dishonest liar.
bwian...  you've been told and shown.
people have sought and reprinted the facts YOU deny the facts bwian.

What does that make you? Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39385
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #551 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:04pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 15th, 2018 at 5:50pm:
https://www.unisa.edu.au/Global/EASS/MnM/Publications/Australian_Muslims_Report_...

"Prisoner statistics broken down by religion are not publically available in Australia. But Muslims in Australian prisons are often discussed in public debates on nationalism and radicalisation.
Muslims comprise 3.2% of the NSW population but 9.3% of the state prison population, according to the NSW
Corrective Services 2013 Census (Khoury 2014).............
........ "According to Corrections Victoria, as of 27 April 2015 there were 507 Muslim prisoners in Victoria. The total prison population is around 6300 prisoners. This shows that, while 2.9% of Victorians were Muslim, 8% of prisoners in Victoria were Muslims. "



Until one of your sources actually states were the source of this 9% figure comes from, it is rubbery and suspect, Graps.    Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #552 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 11:56pm
 
Arguing over the numbers has no meaning - what is important is that Muslims - and predominantly ME Muslims  (and now Africans) or their immediate descendants are over-represented in the prison inmate figures.

Why is this???

I throw THIS question open to the cloud - not this nonsense of arguing specific numbers... as I said - halve those numbers and Muslims are still over-represented in the prison system.

What are the reasons -without generalisations such as 'they are radicalised' or 'disenfranchised' or 'suffer lack of opportunity', etc - we are ALL in that boat... that's why we are here!!
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 79579
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #553 - Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:08am
 
Brian knows this already.. it was part of a personal message:-

No - I disagree.  The ordinary peace-loving and genuine Muslims are not copping a bad deal in
Australia.  The basic deal they get here is far better than what they would get 'back home' - they can vote, stand for public office, enter education, enter professions, move freely without undue constraint or even focus from authority, can approach authority without being assaulted BY authority, and even get some special preferential treatment via 'equal employment opportunity' .... and unless clowns like those holding up placards saying that Islam is the only way and unbelievers should lose their heads, etc, go about demonstrating their violent attitude to other people ... frankly, nobody gives a damn.

They were welcomed here - they poo on it and endlessly whine 'victim'.  Victims of what?  I've asked that many times and no apologist or Islamophile has the answer - EVER!

Get used to it.

I'm pretty much a retired over-achiever in everything, son - and I've also been homeless....I KNOW what it is to be alienated, disenfranchised, and radicalised  - you simply have no idea what I am capable of - but I never turned to crime - only to a position of trying to Lead this nation out of its current death spiral.

You may not understand that.... others do.... and as you must be aware by now, I do not advocate extreme measures such as holding up a cafe in a Muslim community and killing the barista to 'make a statement'.

I will be posting this on open discussion channel.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Auggie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571
Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #554 - Jan 16th, 2018 at 12:02pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
Yet you are increasingly acting like that is what you believe, Augie.

I am acting in no such manner, Brian Ross. Just because I disagree with you what you believe, doesn't mean that I'm an Islamophobe.


A moderate Muslim is one that is law abiding, has no interest in Terrorism and is well assimilated to the broader Australian community.   I am surprised you need that, anybody else automatically understands what the term "moderate Muslim" means.   You wonder why I worry about what I perceive is increasingly your Islamophobic views?   Why question what a "moderate" is?   The overwhelming majority of Muslims or any cultural group are "moderate" in their tone and their speech, Augie.   

So, you understand that this a low standard? 'Has no interest in terrorism?' Most people on earth have no interest in terrorism. What matters are their core beliefs about women, gays, minorities etc. A Muslim may no interest in terrorism but believe that gays should be thrown in jail. Are they moderate?

Again, nothing to do with the majority, BR. Only a significant minority need hold pernicious beliefs to cause problems. If that's 20% then that's a huge problem. Don't you agree?




Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
Ah, you're buying into the Islamophobe meme that the Japanese place special controls on Muslims in their society.  As Snopes points out, that is bullshit.  The Japanese don't place any controls on Muslims in their society.  As to numbers, Wikipedia suggests your claim of "on one finger" is also an Islamophobic lie, Augie.  There are between 30,000 and 100,000 Muslims in Japan.

Nope. I'm not suggesting anything of the sort - that Japanese place special controls on Muslims. But they do have strict migration policies, particularly regarding immigrants and Asylum seekers. In fact, in 2016, Japan only took in 125 asylum seekers (including humanitarian visas).

The article you quoted stated that there were probably about 70,000 Muslims in Japan, 10% of whom had citizenship. So, let's work with 70,000 anyway. What percentage of the total Japanese population is that? My calculator couldn't even return a legible number (for some with low mathematical literacy like me), so I did 70,000/ 12,700,00 (10%) *100 of the Japanese population, and the figure was 0.55%. So, of the whole 127,000,000 population of Japan, that would be 0.55%*10, which is 0.055% of the total population.

Which exactly proves my point that it comes down to numbers....



Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
No, the more Muslims and fewer Imams who are professionally trained, the greater likelihood that young Muslims will become radicalised, Augie.   What we need are more professionally trained Imams, teaching the young the correct, moderate version of Islam, not the radical version that the radicals adhere to.

But there are 'professionally-trained' Imans who hold pernicious beliefs. They believe in slaughtering infidels, and subjugating women. You may believe it's radical, but THEY believe it's moderate. How are you going to convince them?



Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
So, you believe we have 15% of the Australian Muslim population who are Terrorists?  Really?  So, according to you, we have approximately 90,000 Terrorists in our society?  Really?   I wonder where they are all hiding.   

I said 15% of the world Muslim population, not in Australia.


And on what are you making that claim, Augie?  Who has questioned all the Australian Muslim population to discover that 15% figure?  Or are just making it up?  Mmmm? 

There have been numerous polls conducted in Muslim-majority countries which support this claim. Most people are conservative when it comes to figures, so many of them have been rolled back.


Brian Ross wrote on Jan 14th, 2018 at 9:46pm:
So, they are exercising their democratic rights to Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly and are expressing ideas you find distasteful?

So, it's perfectly legitimate that they express their views (which I agree they can), and receive no criticism from you about what they are propagating, but then when myself and other people criticise certain aspect of Islamic theology, then we're called Islamophobes, and bigots???


Yet you don't believe they should be persecuted.  So, then, why are you engaging in low-level persecution of Muslims, Augie?   Why, indeed?   

There is no persecution going on. I'm not advocating the deportation of Muslims, nor do I oppose the construction of Mosques. I'm simply questioning if a person (any person of any culture, creed or race) shares our broad values. Now, I don't always do it because I want to be courteous to the average person, but if I've having a debate with someone then I would question their personal beliefs and values (whether they be Chinese or Muslim).


Back to top
 

The Progressive President
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 35 36 37 38 39 ... 47
Send Topic Print