Australian Politics Forum - 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims

Bertie

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #420 - Jan 7^th, 2018 at 6:21pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 3:57pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 2:07pm:

However, when one particular sect of the One God culture holds that every single word in their ancient book is the absolute and is immutable for all time and incontestable on pain of death, while the other seeks a more moderate and less confrontational approach......

You see my drift?

I see your "drift", Graps. You are comparing Apples with Oranges, not Apples with Applies. You are comparing extremist Muslims with moderate Christians. Moderate Muslims don't cut peoples' heads off. Extremist Christians also believe that the Bible is divinely inspired (in particular the King James version). They believe its word comes directly from God. They believe that is immutable for all time and incontestable. OK, most don't kill people, I'll admit but some do. When you compare Apples to Apples, get back to me. Roll Eyes

There is no Christian jihad. In that sense comparing Islam and Christianity is indeed comparing completely different things. You don't have to believe in Jesus to see how much more positive Christianity is. It is a lot harder to follow Jesus than Mohammed. It requires far more spiritual and actual goodness from you than following Mohammed.

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Brian Ross

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #421 - Jan 7^th, 2018 at 6:31pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. "Sh'ria Law". Do you even know what Sh'ria Law is? I don't. Most Muslims don't. Why? Because all the countries have instituted it have instituted a different version of it. Why? Because the original laws are like the 10 Commandments. Simplistic and brutal. Sure, they cover criminal laws and punishments for crimes against people and property - in a limited, 7the century way. The laws, outlined in the K'ran do not cover sophisticated contracts, they don't cover telecommunications, they don't cover modern matters. So, the countries which have instituted Sh'ria law are always harking back to colonial law in many cases and where the Sh'ria doesn't cover a situation, they institute new laws.

Yes, many Muslims say they like the idea of Sh'ria law. However, most of them cannot even define what it is they want. Most Muslims aren't lawyers, most Muslims rely upon their Imams for how to interpret the K'ran to derive Sh'ria law from it.

Here, we have often had Herbie and others suggesting the most dire of punishments instead of modern Western jurisprudence for offenders. Normally, they the most vocal ones calling for someone to be punished. They also tend to be the most vocal against Sh'ria law. What a shame they don't realise that what they calling for is almost exactly what many extremist Muslims desire. It's ironic hey, when the most vocal opponents are actually supporting it's concepts, themselves. Roll Eyes

Countries can have what ever legal system they like. Personally, I prefer a written one, rather than an arbitrary one. In Australia we have a British Common Law system were the Rule of Law, rather than the Rule of Man applies. Most Muslims appreciate that because like all established legal systems it supports the rights of the individual and their ownership of property and therefore the accumulation of wealth.

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Bertie

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #422 - Jan 7^th, 2018 at 8:58pm

mozzaok wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 4:33pm:

The usual garbage about a few bad eggs is why the social justice crew, (Is That A Boy Band)?, keep believing that sticking up for Islam is the only fair position to take.

They are just wrong on that fact, whilst the ones wanting to actually go to Iraq and cut heads off infidels is much higher than the ones who actually do it, the tacit support of those who share their belief in Sharia as the ultimate and final word on how they, and WE, should live our lives, is in fact massive.

% of muslims in the following countries that believe Sharia should be made the OFFICIAL LAW of their country.
Malaysia----------86%
Indonesia---------72%
Thailand----------77%
Afghanistan------99%
Pakistan----------84%
Palestine---------89%
Iraq--------------91%

Brian don't look, just keep arguing that the 1% of Afghanis who DON'T want Sharia are the bad apples.

Now while all people who support Sharia being made the official law of the country does not mean that they definitely support terrorists, but it sure as hell means they are more likely to be sympathetic towards them, even if they are not currently active supporters, come a crux time, guess who they will support.

NOT, insignificant minorities.
In fact in MOST muslim countries, they are significant Majority.

And they do not change or evolve when they migrate to the West.

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Brian Ross

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #423 - Jan 7^th, 2018 at 9:32pm

Bertie wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 8:58pm:

And they do not change or evolve when they migrate to the West.

I must tell my friends from my Army days. I must tell the Muslims I work with. I must tell my neighbours. "Word is, you never change or evolve, when you migrated to the West..." Sorry, Agatha, who claims that? You? Roll Eyes

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Auggie

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #424 - Jan 7^th, 2018 at 11:38pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 6:31pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. "Sh'ria Law". Do you even know what Sh'ria Law is? I don't. Most Muslims don't. Why? Because all the countries have instituted it have instituted a different version of it. Why? Because the original laws are like the 10 Commandments. Simplistic and brutal. Sure, they cover criminal laws and punishments for crimes against people and property - in a limited, 7the century way. The laws, outlined in the K'ran do not cover sophisticated contracts, they don't cover telecommunications, they don't cover modern matters. So, the countries which have instituted Sh'ria law are always harking back to colonial law in many cases and where the Sh'ria doesn't cover a situation, they institute new laws.

Yes, many Muslims say they like the idea of Sh'ria law. However, most of them cannot even define what it is they want. Most Muslims aren't lawyers, most Muslims rely upon their Imams for how to interpret the K'ran to derive Sh'ria law from it.

Here, we have often had Herbie and others suggesting the most dire of punishments instead of modern Western jurisprudence for offenders. Normally, they the most vocal ones calling for someone to be punished. They also tend to be the most vocal against Sh'ria law. What a shame they don't realise that what they calling for is almost exactly what many extremist Muslims desire. It's ironic hey, when the most vocal opponents are actually supporting it's concepts, themselves. Roll Eyes

Countries can have what ever legal system they like. Personally, I prefer a written one, rather than an arbitrary one. In Australia we have a British Common Law system were the Rule of Law, rather than the Rule of Man applies. Most Muslims appreciate that because like all established legal systems it supports the rights of the individual and their ownership of property and therefore the accumulation of wealth.

Problem is that Common law is a Western invention, and is not Islamic, so to support it means that you are supporting an UnIslamic doctrine. Muslim apologists claim that Sharia is nothing different; it's exactly the same as common law. Yeah, right....

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Auggie

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #425 - Jan 7^th, 2018 at 11:54pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Your OCD? A minor problem but one which you claimed meant you looked into matters deeply. It normally doesn't disappear overnight and without effort, Augie.

Playing the man again, I see. You think that OCD is a minor problem because you don't know anything about it, nor have you probably ever suffered mental illness (considering you served in the army). Don't shoot your mouth off about things of which you know nothing.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Not the answer a true sufferer from OCD would offer in my experience, Augie. You're dissembling.

There are many types of OCD, Brian Ross. Get back to me when you've done your research.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Jihad still has many meanings, Augie. It still is personal. It can be martial. It isn't just one thing.

The concept evolved over time to mean offensive jihad. Sure, when the Muslims are in a weak position then Jihad means inner struggle, but when they are strong and well organised, it means offensive jihad.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

You obviously aren't very aware of Christianity's history, Augie. Charlemagne's defeat of the Moors, the Crusades, the Spanish Reconquistadore, the Conquistadori in the New World, European Imperialism in Asia and Africa and the Americas and Oceania, the Hundred Years War, the Thirty Years War... Its a bloody long history of Christianity being spread by the Sword....

Irrespective, Christianity doesn't teach offensive warfare. You cannot theologically draw a straight line from the NT to offensive warfare. You can in the Quran.

This is about what a religion teaches.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

re of Christ and the Trinity has changed markedly, how the Virgin Birth was justified and so on. All created by men, not by God. All based on essentially lies and created without basis. The Q'ran is similar. Mohammed couldn't read or write. He didn't write the Q'ran any more than Christ wrote the New Testament. What happened was essentially a Wiki like exercise, "Who remembers what?" And it was all written down. The Hadiths came later. Some appear as genuine as the Q'ran. Some are just bullshit like most of later Christianity, created to justify some outrage, some oppression, somewhere by some Sheikh.

Yeah, problem is that Muslims don't believe that the Quran is man-made; they believe it's the eternal word of the creator of the universe. They believe that it is unchangeable. They believe that there is nothing affect the Quran - that it is the final revelation.

Just ask your Muslim friends.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

Well,Christ was dead and buried, so he had no hand in how the religion founded in his name was shaped. That was all done by men. Venal men who wanted to dominate other men and control their destinies. Just as Islam was. Indeed, the similarities between the two religions are often quite remarkable. Jesus was just some hippy who ate too many magic mushr

He was also a person who make conscious choices which led to his own self-torture, mutilation and death. Human beings are wired toward self-survival. That Christ was wired toward his own self-destruction shows just how incredible a human being he was.

For someone who is quite knowledgeable about religion, you seemed to have missed the whole point of Jesus.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

You didn't qualify your statement until I had questioned it, Augie.

I'm qualifying it now.

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:28pm:

Good. That is a start. Tolerance is the key.

Oh, you want to know the best of the joke? I've actually learnt Arabic, Brian, and enjoyed it very much. It is one of my favour languages. It is a very logical language. Also, I find Muslim women very attractive. And I would convert to Islam to marry a woman if I loved her.

The difference between the Islamophobes and me, BR, is that I understand and know the grey areas. They, like many bigots, don't.

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 15914 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims Reply #426 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:15am Brian seems to be becoming adept at playing the man, something I have seen himself complain about.
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Grendel

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #427 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 7:18am

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 9:32pm:

Bertie wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 8:58pm:

And they do not change or evolve when they migrate to the West.

I must tell my friends from my Army days. I must tell the Muslims I work with. I must tell my neighbours. "Word is, you never change or evolve, when you migrated to the West..." Sorry, Agatha, who claims that? You? Roll Eyes

Sorry bwian.
But how many Muslims are actually in our defence force?
Where do they come from?
puhlease don't try that one on bwian... you lose again.

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims Reply #428 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:43pm Setanta wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:15am: Brian seems to be becoming adept at playing the man, something I have seen himself complain about. That’s called hypocrisy.
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tickleandrose

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #429 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 1:02pm

By your logical, we can break the prisoner population down along many characteristics, why religion.

Another indicator:

There are 12.01 million males and 12.20 million females living in Australia. But Males accounted for 92% of all prisoners (37,905 prisoners), and females the remaining 8% (3,299 prisoners).

May be we ought to ban men from migrating to Australia.

Cheesy

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Brian Ross

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #430 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 4:08pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 11:54pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Your OCD? A minor problem but one which you claimed meant you looked into matters deeply. It normally doesn't disappear overnight and without effort, Augie.

Playing the man again, I see. You think that OCD is a minor problem because you don't know anything about it, nor have you probably ever suffered mental illness (considering you served in the army). Don't shoot your mouth off about things of which you know nothing.

Assumptions, assumptions. I resigned from the Army over 30 years ago. You have no idea about my life since then. No, I haven't suffered any mental illness but my wife suffers from mild OCD, so I do have some experience of the disease.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Not the answer a true sufferer from OCD would offer in my experience, Augie. You're dissembling.

There are many types of OCD, Brian Ross. Get back to me when you've done your research.

No need. No, need at all, Augie.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

Jihad still has many meanings, Augie. It still is personal. It can be martial. It isn't just one thing.

The concept evolved over time to mean offensive jihad. Sure, when the Muslims are in a weak position then Jihad means inner struggle, but when they are strong and well organised, it means offensive jihad.

Spoken like a true Islamophobe it seems. Tsk, tsk, one does not supplant the other. Except it appears in your imagination.

Quote:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 12:20pm:

You obviously aren't very aware of Christianity's history, Augie. Charlemagne's defeat of the Moors, the Crusades, the Spanish Reconquistadore, the Conquistadori in the New World, European Imperialism in Asia and Africa and the Americas and Oceania, the Hundred Years War, the Thirty Years War... Its a bloody long history of Christianity being spread by the Sword....

Irrespective, Christianity doesn't teach offensive warfare. You cannot theologically draw a straight line from the NT to offensive warfare. You can in the Quran.

This is about what a religion teaches.

Christianity teaches "Just War" is acceptable, Augie. Are you denying what the Church(es) teaches to it's believers? Really? Roll Eyes

It has a long, bloody, history of forcing conversions on subject people from the Spanish through Indians. Our own Indigenous peoples were given no choice in the matter. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Yeah, problem is that Muslims don't believe that the Quran is man-made; they believe it's the eternal word of the creator of the universe. They believe that it is unchangeable. They believe that there is nothing affect the Quran - that it is the final revelation.

Just ask your Muslim friends.

I have. Many of the better educated ones recognise it as bullshit, Augie. Some of the less well educated ones believe it. Rather like the Christians with the way The Bible (particularly the King James version) was "divinely inspired". Roll Eyes

Quote:

He was also a person who make conscious choices which led to his own self-torture, mutilation and death. Human beings are wired toward self-survival. That Christ was wired toward his own self-destruction shows just how incredible a human being he was.

For someone who is quite knowledgeable about religion, you seemed to have missed the whole point of Jesus.

We only have on version of his life, Augie - that in The Bible. How true do you think it's tales are? Christ more than likely never existed nor did the things claimed for him. You appear to believe in fairy tales. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Quote:

I'm qualifying it now.

Fair enough.

Quote:

Oh, you want to know the best of the joke? I've actually learnt Arabic, Brian, and enjoyed it very much. It is one of my favour languages. It is a very logical language. Also, I find Muslim women very attractive. And I would convert to Islam to marry a woman if I loved her.

هل حقا؟ مثير للإعجاب. أنا مندهش.

[/quote]
The difference between the Islamophobes and me, BR, is that I understand and know the grey areas. They, like many bigots, don't. [/quote]

Yet you appear to be speaking with assurance about issues which you claim you don't understand... Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims Reply #431 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 4:09pm Setanta wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:15am: Brian seems to be becoming adept at playing the man, something I have seen himself complain about. Touche' Setanta. It is something I only rarely do. Unlike some who make a career out of it.
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39497	Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims Reply #432 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 4:11pm Auggie wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:43pm: Setanta wrote on Jan 8^th, 2018 at 12:15am: Brian seems to be becoming adept at playing the man, something I have seen himself complain about. That’s called hypocrisy. No. It is inquiry. Please learn the difference, Augie.
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92238 Gender:	Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims Reply #433 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 4:43pm it_is_the_light wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 10:32am: Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 1:00am: Sorry? forgiven I'm going back to where I came from, dear one. It_is_the_light.
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Bertie

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Re: 9% Of All Australian Prisoners Are Muslims
Reply #434 - Jan 8^th, 2018 at 9:02pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 9:32pm:

Bertie wrote on Jan 7^th, 2018 at 8:58pm:

And they do not change or evolve when they migrate to the West.

I must tell my friends from my Army days. I must tell the Muslims I work with. I must tell my neighbours. "Word is, you never change or evolve, when you migrated to the West..." Sorry, Agatha, who claims that? You? Roll Eyes

Were they sharia-observant Muslims before they arrived here and then became apostates? Or were they apostates already when they came to Australia? Did they change on arrival or were they already changed apostates when they decided to leave their Muslim countries?

Ask them.

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