Australian Politics Forum - Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.

Auggie

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #600 - Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:12pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 9:04pm:

Multiculturalism means that those of a different culture should adopt the core culture primarily, but also retain their own indigenous culture as 'peripheral' to the core culture.

In either case, the core culture prevails. That's how it works.

Does that mean they have to become mini-yous, Augie?

No, they should become assimilated into Australian society.

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Auggie

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #601 - Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 9:58pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 6:05pm:

Secret Wars wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 6:02pm:

Quote:

Brian, wake up! There is an ideology out there that subjugates women, criminalizes homosexuality, immiserates people. I'm willing to compromise on beliefs and opinions, but I am not willing to compromise on women's rights, the rights of homosexuals, and other minorities.

Doesn't matter what they do, Brian doesn't feel he has the right or ability to criticise.

Brian submitted a long time ago. Roll Eyes

That's fine. I don't appreciate that he and other people call me a bigot or Islamophobe because I support conservative values.

But you don't, Augie, you don't. Tsk, tsk, you've just proposed preventing people who hold conservative values from becoming citizens. Roll Eyes

Again, I don't agree that most conservatives would fail the test. Conservatives support separation of church and state; freedom of speech, etc.

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Bias_2012

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #602 - Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:01pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 7:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 5:03pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 7:06pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 5:45pm:

Look up the concept of "the fair go". You may be surprised.

The "Australian Fair Go" requires reciprocity Brian

When I see you lot applying a "fair go" to innocent people who have committed no crimes, I'll believe it. Immigrants and in particular the majority of Muslims have committed no crimes, other than it seems offend the more narrow minded here. Tsk, tsk, talk about judging people who are innocent. Roll Eyes

I wasn't talking about the "innocent" people, I was talking about the guilty people. Read the whole post this time. If you want to be a lefty progressive humanist, at least be an intelligent one Undecided

I made the point which I felt was pertinent. If you don't like that, tough. Shouting your points doesn't make them any more valid. In reality you want to punish people simply because they are different to you. You are a bigot and an Islamophobe. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

There was no shouting, just reposting in 12 size font

Thing is, you can't face the truth about what "Fair Go" really means, it's not a one-way street like you've been asserting, it's a two-way street. Go off on a tangent and name call all you like but the truth is immigrants that go around committing crimes are not giving Australia a fair go when Australia allowed them in and provide social security for basic needs while at the same time providing safe sanctuary away from their less than prosperous homelands

Let's illustrate a scenario: Aussie talking to a new immigrant

"G'day mate, how was your trip?"
"Good"
"We're peaceful and prosperous here, do you think you'll stay?"
"Yes"
"That's great. Centerlink will give you money for food and rent
"Thanks
"If you become a permanent resident, all anybody asks is to obey our laws"
"Yes I'll do that"
"Unbelievable, you'll get on well here mate, you only need to get a job now"
"Where will I get a job"
"You'll have to do what everyone has to do, look around till you find one"
"Hope I find one"
"You will, just keep looking, that's all you've got to do"
"I'll start looking tomorrow"

That's the definition of a "fair go" - it's a two way street

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« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2018 at 12:06pm by Bias_2012 »

Our Lives Are Governed By The Feast & Famine Variable

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Grendel

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #603 - Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:22pm

Oh dear there's bwian being disingenuous again Auggie...he knows full well that you cant simply call the world strictly Conservatives and strictly Progressive or just LW or just RW even though a small minority probably are.
You cant just label a religion Conservative either. He knows that... what about Traditionalists or Fundamentalists etc, etc. Hell some see themselves as Progressive.

A conservative is someone who is averse to change or innovation and holds traditional values. That doesn't make them; an extremist, a fundamentalist, a jihadist or a radical now does it.

Politically a Conservative is someone who follows Conservatism which is a philosophy advocating the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.

A Conservationist though is a person who advocates or acts for the protection and preservation of the environment and wildlife. Or something else entirely.

Personally I think they are excellent values.

Nope... bwian is just being bwian... don't get sucked into his lies and obfuscation. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:01pm by Grendel »

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz. Reply #604 - Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:27pm Been sitting here at the computer and didn't hear a thing Bias... Brownshirt Bwian been up to his old tricks again eh?
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Auggie

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #605 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:25am

Grendel wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:22pm:

Oh dear there's bwian being disingenuous again Auggie...he know full well that you cant simply call the world strictly Conservatives and strictly Progressive or just LW or just RW even though a small minority probably are.
You cant just label a religion Conservative either. He knows that... what about Traditionalists or Fundamentalists etc, etc. Hell some see themselves as Progressive.

A conservative is someone who is averse to change or innovation and holds traditional values. That doesn't make them; an extremist, a fundamentalist, a jihadist or a radical now does it.

Politically a Conservative is someone who follows Conservatism which is a philosophy advocating the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.

A Conservationist though is a person who advocates or acts for the protection and preservation of the environment and wildlife. Or something else entirely.

Personally I think they are excellent values.

Nope... bwian is just being bwian... don't get sucked into his lies and obfuscation. Roll Eyes

Not only that, G, most conservatives support rule of law, separation of church and state, etc. What Brian was referring to was fundamentalists. I also don’t want large numbers of Christian or Hindu fundamentalists in Australia too.

I suspect BR knows this but is just being genuinely dishonest.

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Grendel

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #606 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:47am

Auggie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:12pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 9:04pm:

Multiculturalism means that those of a different culture should adopt the core culture primarily, but also retain their own indigenous culture as 'peripheral' to the core culture.

In either case, the core culture prevails. That's how it works.

Does that mean they have to become mini-yous, Augie?

No, they should become assimilated into Australian society.

Multiculti makes no requirement for Assimilation or Integration.

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Grendel

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #607 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:48am

Auggie wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:25am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:22pm:

Oh dear there's bwian being disingenuous again Auggie...he know full well that you cant simply call the world strictly Conservatives and strictly Progressive or just LW or just RW even though a small minority probably are.
You cant just label a religion Conservative either. He knows that... what about Traditionalists or Fundamentalists etc, etc. Hell some see themselves as Progressive.

A conservative is someone who is averse to change or innovation and holds traditional values. That doesn't make them; an extremist, a fundamentalist, a jihadist or a radical now does it.

Politically a Conservative is someone who follows Conservatism which is a philosophy advocating the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.

A Conservationist though is a person who advocates or acts for the protection and preservation of the environment and wildlife. Or something else entirely.

Personally I think they are excellent values.

Nope... bwian is just being bwian... don't get sucked into his lies and obfuscation. Roll Eyes

Not only that, G, most conservatives support rule of law, separation of church and state, etc. What Brian was referring to was fundamentalists. I also don’t want large numbers of Christian or Hindu fundamentalists in Australia too.

I suspect BR knows this but is just being genuinely dishonest.

Yes bwian has been fundamentally dishonest for almost 30 years now...

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Auggie

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #608 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 9:23am

Grendel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:48am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:25am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:22pm:

Oh dear there's bwian being disingenuous again Auggie...he know full well that you cant simply call the world strictly Conservatives and strictly Progressive or just LW or just RW even though a small minority probably are.
You cant just label a religion Conservative either. He knows that... what about Traditionalists or Fundamentalists etc, etc. Hell some see themselves as Progressive.

A conservative is someone who is averse to change or innovation and holds traditional values. That doesn't make them; an extremist, a fundamentalist, a jihadist or a radical now does it.

Politically a Conservative is someone who follows Conservatism which is a philosophy advocating the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.

A Conservationist though is a person who advocates or acts for the protection and preservation of the environment and wildlife. Or something else entirely.

Personally I think they are excellent values.

Nope... bwian is just being bwian... don't get sucked into his lies and obfuscation. Roll Eyes

Not only that, G, most conservatives support rule of law, separation of church and state, etc. What Brian was referring to was fundamentalists. I also don’t want large numbers of Christian or Hindu fundamentalists in Australia too.

I suspect BR knows this but is just being genuinely dishonest.

Yes bwian has been fundamentally dishonest for almost 30 years now...

I actually think he agrees with us mostly but can’t say so. He has an image to uphold and he doesn’t like back-pedalling.

He is a post modernist, virtue signaller.

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Auggie

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #609 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 9:24am

Grendel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:48am:

Auggie wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 8:25am:

Grendel wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 11:22pm:

Oh dear there's bwian being disingenuous again Auggie...he know full well that you cant simply call the world strictly Conservatives and strictly Progressive or just LW or just RW even though a small minority probably are.
You cant just label a religion Conservative either. He knows that... what about Traditionalists or Fundamentalists etc, etc. Hell some see themselves as Progressive.

A conservative is someone who is averse to change or innovation and holds traditional values. That doesn't make them; an extremist, a fundamentalist, a jihadist or a radical now does it.

Politically a Conservative is someone who follows Conservatism which is a philosophy advocating the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.

A Conservationist though is a person who advocates or acts for the protection and preservation of the environment and wildlife. Or something else entirely.

Personally I think they are excellent values.

Nope... bwian is just being bwian... don't get sucked into his lies and obfuscation. Roll Eyes

Not only that, G, most conservatives support rule of law, separation of church and state, etc. What Brian was referring to was fundamentalists. I also don’t want large numbers of Christian or Hindu fundamentalists in Australia too.

I suspect BR knows this but is just being genuinely dishonest.

Yes bwian has been fundamentally dishonest for almost 30 years now...

Question: Brian thinks that conservatives would be excluded by my test. Do you agree? Even Christian conservatives?

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Grendel

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #610 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:06pm

Yes I think fundamentalists or extremists are what bwian is talking about.
Conservatives advocate the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.
Most Australian Conservatives would support the rule of law, and the separation of Church and State.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #611 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:13pm

Grendel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:06pm:

Yes I think fundamentalists or extremists are what bwian is talking about.
Conservatives advocate the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.
Most Australian Conservatives would support the rule of law, and the separation of Church and State.

No just preservation of etablished order, not worried about best or worst

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Grendel

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #612 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:37pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:13pm:

Grendel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:06pm:

Yes I think fundamentalists or extremists are what bwian is talking about.
Conservatives advocate the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.
Most Australian Conservatives would support the rule of law, and the separation of Church and State.

No just preservation of etablished order, not worried about best or worst

Nope... wrong again... I suggest no tampering with the meanings of words and terms and acceptance of the reality.

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Auggie

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #613 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 3:31pm

Grendel wrote on Jan 18^th, 2018 at 2:06pm:

Yes I think fundamentalists or extremists are what bwian is talking about.
Conservatives advocate the preservation of the best of the established order in society and opposing radical change, or simply change for its own sake.
Most Australian Conservatives would support the rule of law, and the separation of Church and State.

Exactly and in that case I would also want to limit the number of Christian and Hindu or other fundamentalists. They don’t share those values.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Multiculti - the politics and policy killing Oz.
Reply #614 - Jan 18^th, 2018 at 10:22pm

Auggie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:25pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 10:12pm:

Auggie wrote on Jan 17^th, 2018 at 9:04pm:

Multiculturalism means that those of a different culture should adopt the core culture primarily, but also retain their own indigenous culture as 'peripheral' to the core culture.

In either case, the core culture prevails. That's how it works.

Does that mean they have to become mini-yous, Augie?

No, they should become assimilated into Australian society.

And who determines if they have "assimilated" sufficiently?

You? Them? Some neutral judge?

How is that "assimilation" measured? What do they have to do to satisfy you that they have "assimilated" sufficiently? Do they ever "assimilate" sufficiently? Ever?

All interesting questions and ones that are invariably ducked by the Xenophobes and Islamophobes and Racists. Funny they, hey, Augie. They demand something but never tell us how to satisfy that demand or if the migrants have satisfied it. Amazing. Makes it easier to shift the goal posts of course. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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