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From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish (Read 6786 times)
Lord Herbert
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From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Dec 26th, 2017 at 1:09pm
 
for.

If you want to help Muslim refugees by bringing them to Australia, then be WAY more careful with your selection process than you have been. 

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Brian Ross
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #1 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:10pm
 
My how interesting.  You continually say we "should not trust Muslims!"  Yet here, Herbie, you're asking us to take the word of a Muslim.   He is claiming Muslim minorities are more prone to Islamism, yet they are more often than not the victims of Islamists overseas.    So many contradictions, Herbie.  Just so many.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #2 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:33pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:10pm:
My how interesting.  You continually say we "should not trust Muslims!"  Yet here, Herbie, you're asking us to take the word of a Muslim.   He is claiming Muslim minorities are more prone to Islamism, yet they are more often than not the victims of Islamists overseas.    So many contradictions, Herbie.  Just so many.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

So you don't believe there is a problem with radicalism amongst some Muslim youth?
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Brian Ross
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #3 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:52pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:10pm:
My how interesting.  You continually say we "should not trust Muslims!"  Yet here, Herbie, you're asking us to take the word of a Muslim.   He is claiming Muslim minorities are more prone to Islamism, yet they are more often than not the victims of Islamists overseas.    So many contradictions, Herbie.  Just so many.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

So you don't believe there is a problem with radicalism amongst some Muslim youth?


Some, yes.  "Some" denotes a minority.   The young are attracted towards radical solutions, Hammer.   Educate them and teach them the dangers of radicalisation and the danger would be reduced.   Condemn them and you just drive them deeper into the arms of those who seek to radicalise them even more.    Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #4 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 3:00pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:10pm:
My how interesting.  You continually say we "should not trust Muslims!"  Yet here, Herbie, you're asking us to take the word of a Muslim.   He is claiming Muslim minorities are more prone to Islamism, yet they are more often than not the victims of Islamists overseas.    So many contradictions, Herbie.  Just so many.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

So you don't believe there is a problem with radicalism amongst some Muslim youth?


Some, yes.  "Some" denotes a minority.   The young are attracted towards radical solutions, Hammer.   Educate them and teach them the dangers of radicalisation and the danger would be reduced.   Condemn them and you just drive them deeper into the arms of those who seek to radicalise them even more.    Roll Eyes

So just don't say anything about the subject?
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Bias_2012
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #5 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 3:20pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
Educate them and teach them the dangers of radicalisation and the danger would be reduced.   Condemn them and you just drive them deeper into the arms of those who seek to radicalise them even more.



Turnbull promotes Islam. Shorten loves Islam and can't get enough of it. The Greens and SBS want Islam coming out of our ears

Why would Muslims feel condemned?

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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #6 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 3:24pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 1:09pm:
for.

If you want to help Muslim refugees by bringing them to Australia, then be WAY more careful with your selection process than you have been. 

link



0 is a good number for muslims in Aust
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Lord Herbert
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #7 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:13pm
 
The problem with Muslims is that you can't trust them from one generation to the next. Each generation will throw up its 'radicals' and its militantly devout, to the effect that we will never defeat terrorism in our own homelands, let alone far away in the Middle East.

Introducing Islam into Western societies via mass immigration has been political and cultural insanity right from the beginning, and it's no longer 'Herbie' and the like who are saying this, but people in the media with high profiles and university backgrounds.

Melanie Phillips
Katie Hopkins
Mark Latham

and a whole slew of others.

And their voices are getting louder and being heard by the up-and-coming younger generation.
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« Last Edit: Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:21pm by Lord Herbert »  
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #8 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:31pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 3:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:10pm:
My how interesting.  You continually say we "should not trust Muslims!"  Yet here, Herbie, you're asking us to take the word of a Muslim.   He is claiming Muslim minorities are more prone to Islamism, yet they are more often than not the victims of Islamists overseas.    So many contradictions, Herbie.  Just so many.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

So you don't believe there is a problem with radicalism amongst some Muslim youth?


Some, yes.  "Some" denotes a minority.   The young are attracted towards radical solutions, Hammer.   Educate them and teach them the dangers of radicalisation and the danger would be reduced.   Condemn them and you just drive them deeper into the arms of those who seek to radicalise them even more.    Roll Eyes

So just don't say anything about the subject?


No, just adopt a different tone, one where you seek to educate, not condemn them for their religion.  Commend them to their (rational, sane, educated) preachers who will teach them right from wrong.   Condemnation just drives the shutters down, closes their minds even further.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #9 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:33pm
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
Educate them and teach them the dangers of radicalisation and the danger would be reduced.   Condemn them and you just drive them deeper into the arms of those who seek to radicalise them even more.



Turnbull promotes Islam. Shorten loves Islam and can't get enough of it. The Greens and SBS want Islam coming out of our ears

Why would Muslims feel condemned?


Because of the voices condemning them.   The Bolter, Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Tone Rabbit, Il Duce Dutton, etc.  All the voices here and elsewhere online that resort to condemnation rather than trying to understand Muslims and help them.    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #10 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:34pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:13pm:
The problem with Muslims is that you can't trust them from one generation to the next. Each generation will throw up its 'radicals' and its militantly devout, to the effect that we will never defeat terrorism in our own homelands, let alone far away in the Middle East.

Introducing Islam into Western societies via mass immigration has been political and cultural insanity right from the beginning, and it's no longer 'Herbie' and the like who are saying this, but people in the media with high profiles and university backgrounds.

Melanie Phillips
Katie Hopkins
Mark Latham

and a whole slew of others.

And their voices are getting louder and being heard by the up-and-coming younger generation.


Yet you ask us to trust this Muslim, Herbie.  No contradiction there, hey?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #11 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:39pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:31pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 3:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:10pm:
My how interesting.  You continually say we "should not trust Muslims!"  Yet here, Herbie, you're asking us to take the word of a Muslim.   He is claiming Muslim minorities are more prone to Islamism, yet they are more often than not the victims of Islamists overseas.    So many contradictions, Herbie.  Just so many.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

So you don't believe there is a problem with radicalism amongst some Muslim youth?


Some, yes.  "Some" denotes a minority.   The young are attracted towards radical solutions, Hammer.   Educate them and teach them the dangers of radicalisation and the danger would be reduced.   Condemn them and you just drive them deeper into the arms of those who seek to radicalise them even more.    Roll Eyes

So just don't say anything about the subject?


No, just adopt a different tone, one where you seek to educate, not condemn them for their religion.  Commend them to their (rational, sane, educated) preachers who will teach them right from wrong.   Condemnation just drives the shutters down, closes their minds even further.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

This education thing is rubbish. It doesn't work. As if these people are going to listen to the kuffar. They get their opinions from the internet , among their peers in mosques, jails, schools etc and family. Nothing is going to stop that.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #12 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:45pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:39pm:
This education thing is rubbish. It doesn't work. As if these people are going to listen to the kuffar. They get their opinions from the internet , among their peers in mosques, jails, schools etc and family. Nothing is going to stop that.


Correct.

Every generation has its disaffected, but in the case of our home-grown Muslims this disaffection can find a home in militant Islam.


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Mr Hammer
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #13 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:48pm
 
Half of all Australians want to ban Muslim immigration: poll

Mark Kenny, Michael Koziol

US President Barack Obama has hit back strongly at rising anti-immigration sentiment across America, Europe and Australia, as a new poll found half of all Australians want to ban Muslim immigration.
Declaring rich countries must do more not less, and that refugees are victims rather than the causes of violence, Mr Obama said governments proposing to build walls and close doors inevitably imprisoned their own citizens while ensuring they would be harshly judged by history.

Barack Obama's final UN address
President Barack Obama delivered his final address to the UN General Assembly where he focused much of his speech on rejecting fundamentalism and embracing tolerance across the globe.
"This crisis is a test of our common humanity - whether we give in to suspicion and fear and build walls, or whether we see ourselves in another," he said.
It came as an Essential Research poll released on Wednesday found 49 per cent of Australians support a ban on Muslim immigration, including 60 per cent of Coalition voters, 40 per cent of Labor voters and 34 per cent of Greens voters.
Australia to take Central American refugees
Could PM's US promise see an end to Manus and Nauru?
The most common reasons for wanting a ban were fears over terrorism, and a belief that Muslim migrants do not integrate into society nor share Australian values. The poll was first conducted in early August and then repeated to ensure it was not a rogue.
"It's too a big a number to say it's an unrepresentative rump that should be shunned from polite society," Essential pollster Peter Lewis told Fairfax Media.
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In a strident call for more decisive action to help the world's 65 million asylum seekers and internally displaced persons, the US President used his opening address to an invitation-only summit on refugees in New York to pour scorn on the moral abandon propelling right-wing populists, such as US Rebublican presidential candidate Donald Trump, former UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage and others in Europe, and Australian senator Pauline Hanson.
By submitting your email you are agreeing to Fairfax Media's terms and conditions and privacy policy.
"It's a test of our international system where all nations ought to share in our collective responsibilities, because the vast majority of refugees are hosted by just 10 countries who are bearing a very heavy burden - among them Turkey, Pakistan, Lebanon, Iran, Ethiopia. Countries that often have fewer resources than many of those who are doing President Barack Obama used his last address to the UN General Assembly to do a stocktake of his presidency while pressing to keep Donald Trump away from the Oval Office. Photo: AP
The Essential poll, with a typical sample size of more than 1000, came a week after Senator Hanson's incendiary first speech in the Senate in which she proposed that Australia halt Muslim immigration and stop building mosques and Islamic schools.
The poll found a high level of support for the One Nation firebrand, with two-thirds of voters agreeing she talks about issues other politicians are afraid of tackling, and 48 per cent endorsing a national debate about Muslim immigration.
In her first speech in the Senate last week, Pauline Hanson said Australia was in danger of being "swamped" by Muslims. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen
Mr Lewis said the results showed mainstream political parties needed to re-engage with "outsider politics" as disenfranchised voters flocked to the fringes.
"It's consistent with a sense that the fault lines in the current political climate are not between the two major parties - they're between insiders and outsiders," he told Fairfax Media.
"If you look at the movements in the States, in Britain, the economic disenfranchisement drives a set of conversations around culture and difference that manifest at the moment in these sorts of positions."
If the poll is an accurate reflection of Australian voters, it highlights a significant hardening in anti-Muslim sentiment. A Roy Morgan poll conducted in October last year found broad support for Muslim immigration, with 28 per cent of respondents declaring themselves opposed.
The Obama comments came as Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull revealed his government would dial up its refugee intake but was also ratcheting up the pressure on Iran to take back persons deemed not to have legitimate refugee claims, in a bid to clear out the detention centres on Manus Island and Nauru - the blight on Australia's international reputation.
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Brian Ross
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Re: From the horse's mouth ~ Be careful what you wish
Reply #14 - Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:49pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:39pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 4:31pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 3:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:52pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:33pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 26th, 2017 at 2:10pm:
My how interesting.  You continually say we "should not trust Muslims!"  Yet here, Herbie, you're asking us to take the word of a Muslim.   He is claiming Muslim minorities are more prone to Islamism, yet they are more often than not the victims of Islamists overseas.    So many contradictions, Herbie.  Just so many.  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

So you don't believe there is a problem with radicalism amongst some Muslim youth?


Some, yes.  "Some" denotes a minority.   The young are attracted towards radical solutions, Hammer.   Educate them and teach them the dangers of radicalisation and the danger would be reduced.   Condemn them and you just drive them deeper into the arms of those who seek to radicalise them even more.    Roll Eyes

So just don't say anything about the subject?


No, just adopt a different tone, one where you seek to educate, not condemn them for their religion.  Commend them to their (rational, sane, educated) preachers who will teach them right from wrong.   Condemnation just drives the shutters down, closes their minds even further.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

This education thing is rubbish. It doesn't work. As if these people are going to listen to the kuffar. They get their opinions from the internet , among their peers in mosques, jails, schools etc and family. Nothing is going to stop that.


And you're surprised when you start with that attitude?   Tsk, tsk.   People listen to people who talk sense, who don't condemn them merely because they are different to them.  Climb out of your Islamophobia bunker, climb out of your Xenophobia bunker, talk to them as sane, rational and smart human beings and you might be surprised at the results you get.    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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