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Retreating Glaciers in pictures (Read 26462 times)
lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #270 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:46pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:13pm:
"Ice sheets have one particularly special property. They allow us to go back in time and to sample accumulation, air temperature and air chemistry from another time"



So people can tell the temperature at which ice froze? Grin Grin Grin Grin

from your reference -

" By looking at past concentrations of greenhouse gasses in layers in ice cores, scientists can calculate how modern amounts of carbon dioxide and methane compare to those of the past, and, essentially, compare past concentrations of greenhouse gasses to temperature."

So that must be that there is a direct correlation between temperature and GHG's. And nowhere is it shown. There is no direct relationship in current temperatures and GHG's; otherwise with increasing CO2 global temperatures should be spiralling. Of Course CO2 lags temperature and it has a logarithmic decreasing affect. Wink

Further reading -

https://www.astrobio.net/climate/ice-cores-may-not-be-accurate-thermometers/

Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:13pm:
". High rates of snow accumulation provide excellent time resolution, and bubbles in the ice core preserve actual samples of the world’s ancient atmosphere"



And again nothing to do with one year's resolution. Why is that? Grin Grin Grin Grin

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« Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:58pm by lee »  
 
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #271 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:47pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 12:17pm:
ts really cute how Lee demands all assertions be justified with a peer review paper with the same conclusion.


Which conclusion is that petal? Certainly not resolution of one year. Grin Grin Grin Grin

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Pho Huc
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #272 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 6:18pm
 
ok. Ill start a thread about ice core accuracy to reduce your confusion on the topic and reduce your scope for disassembly.
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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)
 
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #273 - Nov 22nd, 2019 at 6:43pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 22nd, 2019 at 6:18pm:
ok. Ill start a thread about ice core accuracy to reduce your confusion on the topic and reduce your scope for disassembly.


First you will need to study it. Wink

Remember this?

Pho Huc wrote on Nov 17th, 2019 at 9:08pm:
To the best of my knowledge there has never been in time in history when the global average temperature has increased by a whole degree in a century.


From my reference -

"In the case of the Younger Dryas, average temperatures — based on the Greenland ice — plummeted as much as 15 degrees Celsius in a few centuries, and then shot back up nearly as much (over just decades) about 1,000 years later. "

So nearly as much as 15°C in a few decades and you are telling me it hasn't happened before.

Or perhaps you prefer NCDC / NOAA

You either believe the proxy data or you don't.
"The end of the Younger Dryas, about 11,500 years ago, was particularly abrupt. In Greenland, temperatures rose 10°C (18°F) in a decade (Alley 2000)."

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/abrupt-climate-change/The%20Younger%20Dryas

10°C in a decade is faster than 1°C a century. Wink
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #274 - Nov 23rd, 2019 at 11:43am
 
According to the IPCC the climate should warm 1.5ºC - 4.5ºC per doubling.

According to the ice core data the CO2 level varied between 270ppm - 280ppm.

CO2 has a decreasing logarithmic effect on temperature.

So log 280 - log 270 = 0.016 (to three decimal places)

So 0.016*1.5 = 0.024ºC and 0.016*4.5C = 0.072ºC

So for the last 11,000 years, up until the industrial revolution, since 1AD global temperature only should have risen less than 0.1ºC. No Roman Warm Period, No MWP and no LIA.

Since the industrial revolution CO2 has risen from 280 -400ppm.

So log 400 - log 280 = 0.155. Multiply that by the maximum amount of warming per doubling 4.5ºC = 0.69ºC.

The maths just doesn't work. Wink
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Jasin
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #275 - Nov 23rd, 2019 at 1:00pm
 
Ice Ages cause major Droughts everywhere.
The world cools, but dries out.

Global Warmings create plentiful Rains...

...except that the World has been deforested by 80% in just 300 years - so I doubt there will be much rain created.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #276 - Nov 26th, 2019 at 9:47pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 23rd, 2019 at 11:43am:
According to the IPCC the climate should warm 1.5ºC - 4.5ºC per doubling.

According to the ice core data the CO2 level varied between 270ppm - 280ppm.

CO2 has a decreasing logarithmic effect on temperature.

So log 280 - log 270 = 0.016 (to three decimal places)

So 0.016*1.5 = 0.024ºC and 0.016*4.5C = 0.072ºC

So for the last 11,000 years, up until the industrial revolution, since 1AD global temperature only should have risen less than 0.1ºC. No Roman Warm Period, No MWP and no LIA.

Since the industrial revolution CO2 has risen from 280 -400ppm.

So log 400 - log 280 = 0.155. Multiply that by the maximum amount of warming per doubling 4.5ºC = 0.69ºC.

The maths just doesn't work. Wink


"It doesn't matter what the thermometer says, because I did some maths and I say it's impossible for the planet to have gotten this hot."
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #277 - Nov 27th, 2019 at 12:11am
 
Robot wrote on Nov 26th, 2019 at 9:47pm:
"It doesn't matter what the thermometer says, because I did some maths and I say it's impossible for the planet to have gotten this hot."



That's Climate Change/ AGWTM maths for you. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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The_Barnacle
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #278 - Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 23rd, 2019 at 11:43am:
According to the IPCC the climate should warm 1.5ºC - 4.5ºC per doubling.

According to the ice core data the CO2 level varied between 270ppm - 280ppm.

CO2 has a decreasing logarithmic effect on temperature.

So log 280 - log 270 = 0.016 (to three decimal places)

So 0.016*1.5 = 0.024ºC and 0.016*4.5C = 0.072ºC

So for the last 11,000 years, up until the industrial revolution, since 1AD global temperature only should have risen less than 0.1ºC. No Roman Warm Period, No MWP and no LIA.

Since the industrial revolution CO2 has risen from 280 -400ppm.

So log 400 - log 280 = 0.155. Multiply that by the maximum amount of warming per doubling 4.5ºC = 0.69ºC.

The maths just doesn't work. Wink


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Actually it's YOUR math that doesn't work

Are you really so stupid as to think that using the "log" function on your calculator will give you exact CO2 effect on temperature?
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Or were you just hoping that no one would scrutinize your maths  Wink

You fail again lee
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #279 - Nov 27th, 2019 at 9:30pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm:
re you really so stupid as to think that using the "log" function on your calculator will give you exact CO2 effect on temperature?



It should be in the ballpark, according to Climate Seance ScienceTM. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm:
Or were you just hoping that no one would scrutinize your maths



But you haven't scrutinised them petal. You just said they are at fault. Wink

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 8:59pm:
You fail again lee


The failure, as usual, is yours. Even going back to papers that the maths was just too hard for you. even though they included the figures in the paper. You just couldn't extrapolate. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #280 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm
 
lee wrote on Nov 27th, 2019 at 9:30pm:
It should be in the ballpark, according to Climate Seance ScienceTM. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



You are kidding right?
You try and discredit scientists at BOM and NASA by using your own completely inaccurate calculations. You don't understand how Glaciers work, you continuously show your lack of understanding of the Carbon Cycle and you expect a vastly higher standard of proof from others than you do yourself.

It's no wonder that your posts are a complete farce
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #281 - Nov 28th, 2019 at 4:07pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm:
You try and discredit scientists at BOM and NASA by using your own completely inaccurate calculations



So far you haven't pointed to any "inaccuracies". Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

I used the available ice core "data" from the various papers. I used the latest ECS from the IPCC. Wink

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm:
You don't understand how Glaciers work, you continuously show your lack of understanding of the Carbon Cycle and you expect a vastly higher standard of proof from others than you do yourself.



I understand how glaciers work. It snows or rains, it partially melts (if snow) and freezes to form ice. These rivers of ice then gradually go down slope.

If it doesn't snow or precipitate enough glaciers retreat. If the snow or rain increases then the glaciers advance.

You haven't got back to us to explain why old Roman mines have been uncovered from retreating glaciers. Wink

What lack of understanding petal? You really must explain yourself better.

We are all carbon based life forms. Therefore we are part of the carbon cycle. Even animals. Wink

I don't expect any standard of proof from you because you can't do the maths. You therefore have to rely on your favourite prophet.

Which one I wonder?

James Hansen who famously said that the oceans could boil away?

Michael E Mann who famously made a hockeystick by grafting thermometer records onto his one tree mometer. Wink

John Cook who famously gave us the 97%, despite what the calculations actually said. He of the SKS website. Smiley

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

The_Barnacle wrote on Nov 28th, 2019 at 3:38pm:
It's no wonder that your posts are a complete farce


It is a wonder that you can't do the science. But for you that is par for the course. Wink
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #282 - Dec 3rd, 2019 at 12:41pm
 
.
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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)
 
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lee
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #283 - Dec 10th, 2019 at 1:43pm
 
...

"45% of the ice loss occurred before 1900, when atmospheric was still below 300 ppm. By 1950, 75% of the ice loss had occurred. Only 25% of the ice loss has occurred since humans allegedly became the primary drivers of climate change. At the time of “The Ice Age Cometh” (1975), 90% of the ice loss had already occurred.

In the extremely unlikely event that the climate models are right, 90% of the ice loss occurred before an anthropogenic fingerprint could be discerned."

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/12/09/sea-level-rise-acceleration-jevrejeva-vs-...
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #284 - Dec 11th, 2019 at 10:58am
 
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/12/even-50-year-old-climate-models-correctly-predicted-global-warming
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