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Retreating Glaciers in pictures (Read 26380 times)
Grendel
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #150 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:52pm
 
I think you should delete all that red crap bobby and this post as well.
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Bobby.
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #151 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:11pm
 
Grendel wrote on Feb 9th, 2018 at 7:52pm:
I think you should delete all that red crap bobby and this post as well.



I did delete the last 2 posts of garbage.

If DRAH wants to post something sensible he can.
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #152 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 10:24pm
 
Wink
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #153 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:28pm
 
The evidence is that glaciers are retreating, even in Norway.

Bobby, Grendel, and the Mechanic are not just wrong but also wrong-headed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

Quote:
Since 1980, a significant global warming has led to glacier retreat becoming increasingly rapid and ubiquitous, so much so that some glaciers have disappeared altogether, and the existences of many of the remaining glaciers are threatened...

The retreat of mountain glaciers, notably in western North America, Asia, the Alps and tropical and subtropical regions of South America, Africa and Indonesia, provide evidence for the rise in global temperatures since the late 19th century.[4][5] The acceleration of the rate of retreat since 1995 of key outlet glaciers of the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets may foreshadow a rise in sea level, which would affect coastal regions.

Global glacial mass balance in the last fifty years, reported to the WGMS and NSIDC. The increasing downward trend in the late 1980s is symptomatic of the increased rate and number of retreating glaciers.

Main article: Glacier mass balance
The mass balance, or difference between accumulation and ablation (melting and sublimation), of a glacier is crucial to its survival.[6] Climate change may cause variations in both temperature and snowfall, resulting in changes in mass balance. A glacier with a sustained negative balance loses equilibrium and retreats. A sustained positive balance is also out of equilibrium and will advance to reestablish equilibrium. Currently, nearly all glaciers have a negative mass balance and are retreating.[7]

Glacier retreat results in the loss of the low-elevation region of the glacier. Since higher elevations are cooler, the disappearance of the lowest portion decreases overall ablation, thereby increasing mass balance and potentially reestablishing equilibrium. If the mass balance of a significant portion of the accumulation zone of the glacier is negative, it is in disequilibrium with the climate and will melt away without a colder climate and or an increase in frozen precipitation.[8][9]

Methods for measuring retreat include staking terminus location, global positioning mapping, aerial mapping and laser altimetry.[8][10] The key symptom of disequilibrium is thinning along the entire length of the glacier. This indicates a diminishment of the accumulation zone. The result is marginal recession of the accumulation zone margin, not just of the terminus. In effect, the glacier no longer has a consistent accumulation zone and without an accumulation zone cannot survive.[9][11] For example, Easton Glacier in Washington state, U.S. will likely shrink to half its size but at a slowing rate of reduction and stabilize at that size despite the warmer temperature over a few decades. However, the Grinnell Glacier in Montana, U.S. will shrink at an increasing rate until it disappears. The difference is that the upper section of Easton Glacier remains healthy and snow-covered, while even the upper section of the Grinnell Glacier is bare, is melting and has thinned. Small glaciers with minimal altitude range are most likely to fall into disequilibrium with the climate.[9]

Middle latitude glaciers
... As with examples located in the tropical zone, virtually all the glaciers in the mid-latitudes are in a state of negative mass balance and are retreating.[10]

... In Norway, glacier studies have been performed since the early 19th century, with systematic surveys undertaken regularly since the 1990s. Inland glaciers have had a generally negative mass balance, whereby during the 1990s, maritime glaciers showed a positive mass balance and advanced.[25] The maritime advances have been attributed to heavy snowfall in the period 1989-1995.[25] However, reduced snowfall since has caused most Norwegian glaciers to retreat significantly.[25] A survey of 31 Norwegian glaciers in 2010 indicated that 27 were in retreat, one had no change and three advanced.[26] Similarly, in 2013, of 33 Norwegian glaciers surveyed, 26 were retreating, four showed no change and three advanced.[26]

Engabreen Glacier in Norway extended to within 7 m (23 ft) above sea level in 2014, the lowest altitude of any glacier in Europe.

Engabreen Glacier in Norway, an outlet glacier of the Svartisen ice cap, had several advances in the 20th century, though it retreated 200 m (660 ft) between 1999 and 2014.[27] Brenndalsbreen glacier retreated 56 m (184 ft) between the years 2000 and 2014, while the Rembesdalsskåka glacier, which has retreated 2 km (1.2 mi) since the end of the Little Ice Age, retreated 200 m (660 ft) between 1997–2007.[28] The Briksdalsbreen glacier retreated 230 m (750 ft) between 1996 and 2004 with 130 m (430 ft) of that in the last year of that study; the greatest annual retreat recorded on that glacier since studies began there in 1900.[29] This figure was exceeded in 2006 with five glaciers retreating over 100 m (330 ft) from the fall of 2005 to the fall of 2006. Four outlets from the Jostedalsbreen ice cap, the largest body of ice in continental Europe, Kjenndalsbreen, Brenndalsbreen, Briksdalsbreen and Bergsetbreen had a frontal retreat of more than 100 m (330 ft).[30] Overall, from 1999 to 2005, Briksdalsbreen retreated 336 metres (1,102 ft).[30] Gråfjellsbrea, an outlet glacier of the Folgefonna ice cap, had a retreat of almost 100 m (330 ft).[30] ...
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #154 - Feb 9th, 2018 at 11:31pm
 
Glacier mass balance loss is increasing sharply and accelerating:

...
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #155 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:55am
 


Dear o dear Grendel.

It might be a good idea if you actually read your article about Norway Glacier advance before posting it (or perhaps you did but didn't understand it)

Quote:
Global warming means not only that more ice melts in the summer, but also that more moisture is sucked up from the oceans and falls as rain or snow. Some parts of Norway have had record summer temperatures - and record snowfalls

Norway's western glaciers are among the best monitored in the world. They have tended to shrink since the 18th century but have begun to grow again in the last year or two


So the very recent advancing of a few of Norway's glaciers, as confirmed by your own posted article, is due to increased snowfall.

Nowhere have I claimed that every glacier in the world is retreating, but the vast majority are,  and the few that arn't are advancing due to local conditions.

You do realise that in very cold areas like Norway global warming will produce more snow because the warming temperature is still below freezing.

I especially like how you have highlighted the word "ice" in the article while remaining completely ignorant about the context it is being used in.

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #156 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 10:47am
 
The Portage Glacier, in south-central Alaska, is viewed by thousands of visitors annually who come to the U.S. Forest Service Begich, Boggs Visitor Center located on the road system between Anchorage and Whittier, Alaska. During the past century, the terminus of the glacier has retreated nearly 5 kilometers to its present location.

Left photo 1914, right photo 2004

...
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #157 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am
 
Barnacle doesn't like cheery picking of cold temperatures but
he does like cherry picking of glaciers.

What is of more interest is the amount of ice at the North and South poles + Greenland.
They say it's been increasing.
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #158 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:47am
 
Bobby. wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am:
Barnacle doesn't like cheery picking of cold temperatures but
he does like cherry picking of glaciers.



I've posted 11 pages of retreating glaciers and Grendel can only find a couple of glaciers that arn't retreating and you accuse ME of cherry picking?

Bobby. wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am:
What is of more interest is the amount of ice at the North and South poles + Greenland.
They say it's been increasing.


link?
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #159 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 12:15pm
 
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-shee...

Oct. 31, 2015
NASA Study: Mass Gains of Antarctic Ice Sheet Greater than Losses


Antarctic Peninsula
A new NASA study says that Antarctica is overall accumulating ice. Still, areas of the continent, like the Antarctic Peninsula photographed above, have increased their mass loss in the last decades.
Credits: NASA's Operation IceBridge
Map showing the rates of mass changes from ICESat 2003-2008 over Antarctica.
Map showing the rates of mass changes from ICESat 2003-2008 over Antarctica. Sums are for all of Antarctica: East Antarctica (EA, 2-17); interior West Antarctica (WA2, 1, 18, 19, and 23); coastal West Antarctica (WA1, 20-21); and the Antarctic Peninsula (24-27). A gigaton (Gt) corresponds to a billion metric tons, or 1.1 billion U.S. tons.
Credits: Jay Zwally/ Journal of Glaciology

A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #160 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 6:16pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:32am:
Barnacle doesn't like cheery picking of cold temperatures but
he does like cherry picking of glaciers.

What is of more interest is the amount of ice at the North and South poles + Greenland.
They say it's been increasing.


NASA disagrees with Bobby to the amount of minus 303 Giga Ton per year and accelerating by 31 Giga Ton per year.

Are you telling lies Bobby?

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/land-facing-southwest-greenland-ice-sheet-m...

Quote:
... The Greenland Ice Sheet is the second largest mass of ice on Earth, containing enough water that if it all melted, ocean levels would rise by about 20 feet. Greenland has shed on average 303 gigatons of ice per year since 2004, and with every successive year the loss has increased by 31 gigatons. (Each gigaton equals one billion metric tons.) Recent estimates suggest that surface melting is responsible for 60 percent of Greenland’s ice sheet losses, while the remainder is caused by ice sheet discharge into the ocean.   

Thomas Neumann, a cryospheric scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland who was not involved in the study, said the finding highlights the importance of having access to a long time series of remote sensing data, such as the Landsat record. “By analyzing velocity estimates extracted from 30 years of Landsat data, this study highlights the complex, and sometimes counterintuitive, interplay between surface meltwater and ice motion.”  ...
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #161 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 9:53pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 6:16pm:
NASA disagrees with Bobby to the amount of minus 303 Giga Ton per year and accelerating by 31 Giga Ton per year.



Oooh. 2015?

"According to an end of season summary from Greenland experts with the Danish Meteorological Institute, 2017 may turn out differently.  According to the Institute’s preliminary estimates, about 544 billion tons more snow fell on the ice sheet between September 2016 and August 2017 than melted away. In an average year (1981-2010), net snow accumulation is closer to 368 billion tons."

"One hundred seventy-six billion tons of extra snow would be great news if that were the whole story of the ice sheet’s health.  But as the Institute explains in an article on their Polar Portal Website, Greenland also loses nearly 500 billion tons of ice each year on average through its glaciers, either by icebergs calving into the ocean or through submarine melting of the glaciers where they reach the ocean."

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/greenland-ice-sheets...

"Overall, the end of year SMB is high when compared to the 2000s and the 1990s, and more akin to what we saw in the mid-1980s. The SMB for 2016-17 is the fifth highest in the 37-year record – the highest was the 619bn tonnes gained in 1995-96."

https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-greenland-ice-sheet-2017
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #162 - Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:22pm
 
From denizen lee's own source:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-greenland-ice-sheet-2017

Quote:
... Overall, initial figures suggest that Greenland may have gained a small amount of ice over the 2016-17 year. If confirmed, this would mark
a one-year blip in the long-term trend of year-on-year declines over recent decades
.

The unusual year is mainly down to heavy snow and rain in winter and a relatively short and intermittent summer melt season. And the source of that bumper winter snowfall was the remnants of a hurricane that wreaked widespread damage 4,500km away in Bermuda...
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #163 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 11:12am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Feb 10th, 2018 at 11:22pm:
From denizen lee's own source:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-greenland-ice-sheet-2017

Quote:
... Overall, initial figures suggest that Greenland may have gained a small amount of ice over the 2016-17 year. If confirmed, this would mark
a one-year blip in the long-term trend of year-on-year declines over recent decades
.

The unusual year is mainly down to heavy snow and rain in winter and a relatively short and intermittent summer melt season. And the source of that bumper winter snowfall was the remnants of a hurricane that wreaked widespread damage 4,500km away in Bermuda...


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
lee has yet again been shot down in flames
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Re: Retreating Glaciers in pictures
Reply #164 - Feb 11th, 2018 at 12:41pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 11th, 2018 at 11:12am:
lee has yet again been shot down in flames



Wrong again. The claim was merely that snow and ice increased. It did. Wink

Edit: I am not into predictions; so whether it will remain a "one year blip" or become a two year blip or more is immaterial.
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