Australian Politics Forum - Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS

issuevoter

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Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Dec 16^th, 2017 at 10:25pm

Having lived through those times, it is remarkable to see the war presented in such detail. Back then, you saw still photos or the brief movie footage that was considered suitable for the public. And you flat out did not hear LBJ and McNamara doubting they could win.

Even as a kid, I did not accept the idea that if Vietnam fell, the rest of S E Asia would go communist, including Indonesia, and we would have to fight them in Darwin. But that's what they were feeding us.

I have met Vietnam vets who believe that the reason the Domino Theory did not eventuate was that the Communists had seen in Vietnam what would happen if they pissed the US off. They are like the punch drunk boxer getting up off the floor with swollen eye and a broken nose, "Guess I showed him!"

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS Reply #1 - Dec 18^th, 2017 at 7:01am Good comments. Maybe though Uncle Ho was not of the Lenin breed who believed communism would flow through the world. Maybe he was just a bloke who wanted change in his own country. And they haven't done so badly all things considered.
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #2 - Dec 18^th, 2017 at 2:34pm

bogarde73 wrote on Dec 18^th, 2017 at 7:01am:

Good comments.
Maybe though Uncle Ho was not of the Lenin breed who believed communism would flow through the world. Maybe he was just a bloke who wanted change in his own country.
And they haven't done so badly all things considered.

Yep that was the impression I got, Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist first, communist second. He seemed to be influnced more by the anti-colonial thoughts of Marx then anything else.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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issuevoter

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #3 - Dec 18^th, 2017 at 5:15pm

The Burns documentary is what we should have been seeing at the time, but you didn't need a lot more information to know that it was wrong and doomed to failure, just like in Afghanistan.

A lot of movies have been set in the Vietnam War, but I contend the best of them was made at the time, 1968, the Green Berets with John Wayne, not because it was a good movie, but because it used all the shallow American machismo and jingoism that got them into the mess in the first place. Wayne was type-cast.

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS Reply #4 - Dec 19^th, 2017 at 6:55am I was in my 20s when it all took place, with long hair and questionable habits. And I could sense it was a futile war. But I didn't go out and riot, I was totally involved with.music.
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issuevoter

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #5 - Dec 20^th, 2017 at 9:49pm

bogarde73 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2017 at 6:55am:

I was in my 20s when it all took place, with long hair and questionable habits. And I could sense it was a futile war.
But I didn't go out and riot, I was totally involved with.music.

I voted with my feet. There was no way I was going to get my arse shot off so Harold Holt could suck up to LBJ. Just looking at the calendar, the Communists should be down to Tasmania by now.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #6 - Dec 27^th, 2017 at 3:14pm

bogarde73 wrote on Dec 19^th, 2017 at 6:55am:

I was in my 20s when it all took place, with long hair and questionable habits. And I could sense it was a futile war.
But I didn't go out and riot, I was totally involved with.music.

And this is what being a "suitable piece of real estate" got us involved in, Bogarde and you wonder why you're proud of us hosting Pine Gap - a US Base where Australia has no authority, except over the carpark and you're surprised when I question it's existence... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Gordon

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #7 - Dec 27^th, 2017 at 3:26pm

It was futile and mishandled yet many Vietnamese were only nationalists and their nationalists desires were redirected to serve a small few with communist aspirations.

Many of the young in Hanoi today look at Singapore, Taiwan, KL and realise they could have that standard of development and blame equally the invaders and communism which was foisted upon them.

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issuevoter

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #8 - Dec 27^th, 2017 at 8:35pm

I assume some of us here remember those days. One of the things that really stands out in this documentary series is the incompetence and corruption of successive South Vietnamese governments. They were sleazy thugs. These were the governments that we and the Americans were touting as bastions of freedom against the evil communists.

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Gordon

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #9 - Dec 27^th, 2017 at 8:51pm

issuevoter wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 8:35pm:

I assume some of us here remember those days. One of the things that really stands out in this documentary series is the incompetence and corruption of successive South Vietnamese governments. They were sleazy thugs. These were the governments that we and the Americans were touting as bastions of freedom against the evil communists.

The governments of the south were corrupt but it doesn't negate the very large anti communist sentiment that existed then and now.

I don't think it's fair to say the US supported the corrupt governments, they supported the regime that opposed communism.

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issuevoter

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #10 - Dec 27^th, 2017 at 10:03pm

Gordon wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 8:51pm:

issuevoter wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 8:35pm:

I assume some of us here remember those days. One of the things that really stands out in this documentary series is the incompetence and corruption of successive South Vietnamese governments. They were sleazy thugs. These were the governments that we and the Americans were touting as bastions of freedom against the evil communists.

The governments of the south were corrupt but it doesn't negate the very large anti communist sentiment that existed then and now.

I don't think it's fair to say the US supported the corrupt governments, they supported the regime that opposed communism.

That is not how the documentary shows it. Johnson was continually looking for ways to make it look like the South Vietnamese strongmen and controlling families were interested in the well being and freedom of the people, which was a lie to Americans and the world. It was about tungsten, at least that is what JFK said justified US military intervention. Once Johnson let the US get dragged in, he could not bear to loose face, and he took the easy way out by not standing for election.

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issuevoter

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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #11 - Dec 30^th, 2017 at 10:00pm

It gets more interesting. Not following US politics too closely in 1969, and it being covered up at the time, I was not aware of this. Candidate Nixon secretly communicated with the President of South Vietnam when Johnson was negotiating with North Vietnam. Nixon told the SV President to wait until the election, as he, Nixon would not honour any Johnson agreement, if elected. There is a sound recording of Johnson when he found out from wire taps. He correctly accused Nixon of treason.

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UnSubRocky Gold Member Offline Australian Legend Posts: 21723 Rockhampton, Q Gender:	Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS Reply #12 - Jan 25^th, 2018 at 4:20am I am surprised that I have not really any special interest topic on history or specific wars. I might make Vietnam the war I really get to know.
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Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS
Reply #13 - Jan 25^th, 2018 at 8:32am

issuevoter wrote on Dec 30^th, 2017 at 10:00pm:

It gets more interesting. Not following US politics too closely in 1969, and it being covered up at the time, I was not aware of this. Candidate Nixon secretly communicated with the President of South Vietnam when Johnson was negotiating with North Vietnam. Nixon told the SV President to wait until the election, as he, Nixon would not honour any Johnson agreement, if elected. There is a sound recording of Johnson when he found out from wire taps. He correctly accused Nixon of treason.

That is essentially why any Russia collusion is such a big deal.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Ken Burns Vietnam War SBS Reply #14 - Jan 27^th, 2018 at 7:35am Very similar to Reagan going behind Carter's back in 1980 and doing a deal with the evil bastards in Teheran over the hostages. Everybody wants to deal with the guy on the way in, not the one on the way out.
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