Setanta wrote on Jan 11^th, 2018 at 11:37pm:


No, they were using their history in the region to get a country. A number of peoples in the Middle East were displaced - Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians. They've all had their struggles.

Zionism goes back to the 19th century. While they had factions, it was largely a European political movement.

The Torah isn't just a religious text, it's a history of the Jewish people.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 12^th, 2018 at 9:27am:


And it's the Orthodox Jews causing all the problems these days - claiming Jerusalem, Golan Heights, etc. They're backed by the US Bible Belt, who say they're quite happy to bring on Armageddon because they think they'll get to heaven quicker.

Secular Jews are much more cautious. They know that moving the Israeli capital to Jerusalem would bring them no end of problems. Right now, it seems, the US just doesn't care.

A verse instructing muslims to fight aggressors who continue to wage war against muslims until they stop waging war or convert is a just war doctrine of self defense - yes:

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and...

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polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 12^th, 2018 at 1:55pm:


So, an example of preemptive warfare: Mohammad ensured that there would be no threat from anyone else.

But as I’ve said before: not exactly self-defence.

Frank wrote on Jan 12^th, 2018 at 7:40am:


Covert operations which result in the harming of or death of their victims and which are later disowned by their own Governments are IMHO equivalent to Terrorism.  The objective of Operation Damocles was to terrorise the German scientists into not working for the Egyptian Government.   They were conducted illegally and dangerously.   Egyptians also suffered.   What is the difference between a PLO bomb and an Israeli bomb?  Usually the guidance mechanism.  The effects are the same.  Tsk, tsk, how typical of you, Soren to defend Terrorism, to make excuses for it.   Apologist.   

moses wrote on Jan 12^th, 2018 at 4:35pm:



Actually, there is no evidence of that, Moses.   The Egyptians were attempting to build rockets but weren't doing very well so they paraded around some fakes, which fooled the Israelis.   What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that Otto Joklik was a Mossad Agent and he was one of the two agents who were arrested in Switzerland for threatening Heidi Gorki, the daughter of one of the German scientists. [Source]

Hardly the most neutral of sources, hey, Moses?   No, of course the Israelis would never lie, would they?  Tsk, tsk.   

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 12^th, 2018 at 4:15pm:

So stopping people from working on missiles designed to attack your country is the same as blowing yourself up at a Manchester concert full of teenagers to you Bwian.

And you ask why people regard you with the greatest contempt, as a liar and an unmoored absurd looney.

As far as I know you're referring to ancient (4000 odd year old) commands which refer to the taking of the promised land.

The Hebrews were ordered to take the promised land only. (there is a clear cut boundary to the amount of land the Jews were given.

Moses never entered the promised land, it was long after Moses had died that the Hebrews were lead by Joshua to capture the promised land.

Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,

Joshua 1:2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.

Joshua 1:3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.

Joshua 1:4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.

The promised land had a defined limit going back to the book of Genesis

Genesis 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Genesis15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

Genesis15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

Genesis15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.



It's all ancient history time (4000 odd years ago) and boundry specific.

Now to get back to todays' problem

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Both clearly sanction plundering. You can't get booty if you stay at home peacefully, you have to be the aggressor and invade to collect your spoils of war, plus inherit their lands, and their houses, and their riches, in the land you have not trodden before.

All part and parcel of the fact that islam is the sole motivation for the top 24 listed terrorist organizations.

Your excuses are useless, islam is a death cult.