Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 ... 25
Send Topic Print
trees rocks talk donkeys fly (Read 46264 times)
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91866
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #255 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:12pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


That's more than the total of people killed in every Islamicist terrorist attack in Europe since 2001.

Ancient history, innit.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39385
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #256 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:28pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:12pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


That's more than the total of people killed in every Islamicist terrorist attack in Europe since 2001.

Ancient history, innit.



I can see Moses' response straight away, "but they were Muslims and so weren't humans..."    Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #257 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:29pm
 
Zionists sabotaged their own refugee ship killing 267 civilians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91866
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #258 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:32pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:29pm:
Zionists sabotaged their own refugee ship killing 267 civilians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster


Now now, G, those people were Jews. They didn't have the right paperwork.

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, no?

STOP THE BOATS.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 15851
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #259 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 8:13pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 10:38pm:
Setanta wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 10:24pm:
Perhaps the fruit does not, after all, fall far from the tree.


Have a banana? Have two?

Every good boy deserves fruit, you know.


Banana is a grass not a tree K.

So my guitar teacher Billy Barnes told me anyway.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47067
At my desk.
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #260 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 1:27pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 12:15pm:
Last time you only provided the post numbers, and when I went to the trouble to look, I discovered you were lying (again) about what they say.


Yes, and you also said I never provided any direct Quranic quotes and instead only paraphrase them. Hows that claim looking now FD?

Fasinating how you so seemlessly move from one BS accusation to another without even flinching when proven wrong.

Also, see if you can have the maturity to accept that I have a different interpretation of Quranic verses - rather than just shriek "Gandalf is lying" at everything you think is wrong like a petulent little child.


You provided quotes from the Quran 100 posts back when we were talking about something else.
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 47067
At my desk.
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #261 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 9:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 2:48pm:
A really good article on how Islamic doctrine advocates a 'just war doctrine'. Its too long to quote it all, but highly recommend a read. For Quranic quotes it uses a different translation to the standard sahih international that I have been quoting, but the meaning is still essentially the same:

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/en/justin-parrott/jihad-as-defense-just-war-theory-i...

On the specific matter of chapter 9:

Quote:
The most commonly cited “sword verse” commands Muslims to fight, in self-defense, against enemies who habitually broke their peace treaties:

When the [four] forbidden months are over, wherever you encounter the idolaters, kill them, seize them, besiege them, wait for them at every lookout post; but if they turn [to God], maintain the prayer, and pay the prescribed alms, let them go on their way, for God is most forgiving and merciful.[30]

The phrase “kill them, seize them,” is often cited alone without reference to surrounding verses or even the second part of the verse that emphasizes God’s mercy. Yet, conversion to Islam is not the reason this command was given. The following verse offers asylum and safe passage to any enemy who requested it, regardless of whether they accepted Islam or not:

If any one of the idolaters should seek your protection [Prophet], grant it to him so that he may hear the word of God, then take him to a place safe for him, for they are people with no knowledge [of it].[31]

Furthermore, the passage immediately following lays out the context in which the command to fight is justified:

How could there be a treaty with God and His Messenger for such idolaters? But as for those with whom you made a treaty at the Sacred Mosque, so long as they remain true to you, be true to them; God loves those who are mindful of Him. [How,] when, if they were to get the upper hand over you, they would not respect any tie with you, of kinship or of treaty? They please you with their tongues, but their hearts are against you and most of them are lawbreakers. They have sold God’s message for a trifling gain, and barred others from His path. How evil their actions are! Where believers are concerned, they respect no tie of kinship or treaty. They are the ones who are committing aggression. If they turn to God, keep up the prayer, and pay the prescribed alms, then they are your brothers in faith: We make the messages clear for people who are willing to learn. But if they break their oath after having made an agreement with you, if they revile your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief—oaths mean nothing to them—so that they may stop. How could you not fight a people who have broken their oaths, who tried to drive the Messenger out, who attacked you first? Do you fear them? It is God you should fear if you are true believers.[32]

It is noted that the offending party honored neither their peace treaties, nor the traditional Arab sense of honor. Only by ignoring this greater context can advocates of abrogation uphold their opinion. M.A.S. Abdul Haleem points out the flaws in this interpretation:

The main clause of the sentence, ‘kill the polytheists,’ is singled out by some non-Muslims as representing the Islamic attitude to war. Even some Muslims takes this view and allege that this verse abrogated many other verses including, ‘There is no compulsion in religion,’ (2:256) and even according to one solitary extremist, ‘God is forgiving and merciful.’

This far-fetched interpretation isolates and decontextualizes a small part of a sentence and of a passage which gives many reasons for the order to fight such polytheists: they continually broke their agreements and aided others against the Muslims, they started hostilities against the Muslims, barred others from becoming Muslims, expelled them from the Holy Mosque and even from their own homes. At least eight times the passage mentions the misdeeds of these people against the Muslims.

Moreover, consistent with the restriction of war elsewhere in the Quran, the immediate context of this ‘sword verse’ exempts such polytheists who do not break their agreements and who keep peace with Muslims. It orders that those enemies seeking safe conduct should be protected and delivered to the place of safety they seek. The whole of this context to verse 9:5, with all its restrictions, is ignored by those who simply isolate one part of a sentence to build on it their theory of violence in Islam.
[33]


So the Quran never actually says that war should be restricted to self defence, except in the verse you choose not to quote?
Back to top
 

I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Auggie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


The Bull Moose

Posts: 8571
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #262 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


And once they got their Zionist state they stopped. Islamists won’t stop until the whole world is Islam. Huge difference, don’t you think?
Back to top
 

The Progressive President
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 15851
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #263 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:07pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


And once they got their Zionist state they stopped. Islamists won’t stop until the whole world is Islam. Huge difference, don’t you think?


Although it does show the disadvantage of having religiously motivated people in the world.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91866
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #264 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:12pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


And once they got their Zionist state they stopped. Islamists won’t stop until the whole world is Islam. Huge difference, don’t you think?


Er, once they got a Zionist state they created a security apparatus that went around the world, seeking revenge for the Holocaust, kidnapping people and blowing them up.

Not terrorists, of course. Nazi war criminals, Arab separatists and innocent passers by are not a race.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 91866
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #265 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:17pm
 
Setanta wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Auggie wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


And once they got their Zionist state they stopped. Islamists won’t stop until the whole world is Islam. Huge difference, don’t you think?


Although it does show the disadvantage of having religiously motivated people in the world.


Most Zionists weren't even religious. Most Zionists are atheists.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Setanta
Gold Member
*****
Offline


\/ Peace man!

Posts: 15851
Northern NSW
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #266 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:17pm:
Setanta wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:07pm:
Auggie wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


And once they got their Zionist state they stopped. Islamists won’t stop until the whole world is Islam. Huge difference, don’t you think?


Although it does show the disadvantage of having religiously motivated people in the world.


Most Zionists weren't even religious. Most Zionists are atheists.


How could the land god gave them be theirs if they were atheist and there is no god? Were they just using religion or religious texts to get what they want? See my problem with religion here?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 39385
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #267 - Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:53pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


And once they got their Zionist state they stopped. Islamists won’t stop until the whole world is Islam. Huge difference, don’t you think?


In the early-mid 1960s, Mossad started a campaign aimed at discouraging German scientists and technicians who were working for the Egyptians to build long range rockets for use against Israel.   Several Germans were killed or severely wounded when letter and package bombs exploded in their faces when they opened them.  This was Operation Damocles  Nowadays, it could rightfully be called "Terrorism"... Roll Eyes

Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39948
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #268 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 7:40am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 11:53pm:
Auggie wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 10:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 7:02pm:
Zionists detonated bombs in Israel.  They blew up the King David Hotel, which the British were using for ther HQ.   Ninety-one people of various nationalities were killed and 46 injured.  They also detonated bombs in Italy, Austria and London, during their violent campaign to try and force the British to give them independence. This is a list of Irgun attacksRoll Eyes


And once they got their Zionist state they stopped. Islamists won’t stop until the whole world is Islam. Huge difference, don’t you think?


In the early-mid 1960s, Mossad started a campaign aimed at discouraging German scientists and technicians who were working for the Egyptians to build long range rockets for use against Israel.   Several Germans were killed or severely wounded when letter and package bombs exploded in their faces when they opened them.  This was Operation Damocles  Nowadays, it could rightfully be called "Terrorism"... Roll Eyes


So covert operations are now terrorism?  SO all the ASIO, ASIS and other intelligence services are really terrorist organisations?
Bwian, you are so silly, it's astonishing.

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20023
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: trees rocks talk donkeys fly
Reply #269 - Jan 12th, 2018 at 9:16am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2018 at 9:33pm:
So the Quran never actually says that war should be restricted to self defence, except in the verse you choose not to quote?


I chose to quote lots of verses to support that very claim FD, you just pretended I didn't quote anything of relevance.  Like this:

Quote:
Permission [to fight] has been given to those who are being fought, because they were wronged. And indeed, Allah is competent to give them victory.
(22:39)

and...

Quote:
Fight them until there is no more persecution, and worship is devoted to God. If they cease hostilities, there can be no [further] hostility, except towards aggressors.
(2:193)

Again, reeeeeally slowly...

If they cease hostilities, there can be no [further] hostility, except towards aggressors.



Please do tell me what the sinister hidden subtext there is FD

But don't just take my word for it. That the Quran permits war *ONLY* in self defense is a unanimous interpretation amongst scholars. From the article:

Quote:
According to classical jurist Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 1328), jihād is a response to military aggression and not merely religious difference. There is no evidence in the source texts of Islam that permit Muslims to attack or kill civilians or invade non-hostile nations. He asserts that this was the view of the majority of Muslim scholars:

As for the oppressor who does not fight, then there are no texts in which God commands him to be fought. Rather, the unbelievers are only fought on the condition that they wage war, as is practiced by the majority of scholars and as is evident in the Book and Sunnah.


and Ibn Al-Qayam:

Quote:
Fighting is only necessary to confront war and not to confront unbelief. For this reason, women and children are not killed, neither are the elderly, the blind, or monks who do not participate in fighting. Rather, we only fight those who wage war against us. This was the way of the Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, with the people of the earth. He would fight those who declared war on him until they accepted his religion, or they proposed a peace treaty, or they came under his control by paying tribute.


Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 ... 25
Send Topic Print