Australian Politics Forum - Iranian democracy

Lord Herbert

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #15 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 1:19pm

I'll give the Iranian government a Hi5 for refusing to release captured Australian Muslims who fought for ISIS where they are now imprisoned in Syria.

Our luvvies have been begging the Iranians to release them so they can return to Australia.

I wonder what a plebiscite on that would show in Australia.

Public sentiment and government decisions on these matters are poles apart, giving the lie that we live under a Representative Democracy.

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freediver

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #16 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:18pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Quote:

Democracy is practised in many Islamic nations, including Iran (in, I admit a modified form but no more than in the USA).

Can you explain what you mean by this Brian?

Democracy depends upon the citizenry voting. This occurs in both the US and Iran. Both use a modified outcome to determine who won the election. Therefore, both use modified democracy, FD. Roll Eyes

Can you explain the highlighted bit?

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #17 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:37pm

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Quote:

Democracy is practised in many Islamic nations, including Iran (in, I admit a modified form but no more than in the USA).

Can you explain what you mean by this Brian?

Democracy depends upon the citizenry voting. This occurs in both the US and Iran. Both use a modified outcome to determine who won the election. Therefore, both use modified democracy, FD. Roll Eyes

Can you explain the highlighted bit?

I can feel another 'Kodak moment' coming on.

Brian's about to be thrown under the bus, as always.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #18 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 5:05pm

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Quote:

Democracy is practised in many Islamic nations, including Iran (in, I admit a modified form but no more than in the USA).

Can you explain what you mean by this Brian?

Democracy depends upon the citizenry voting. This occurs in both the US and Iran. Both use a modified outcome to determine who won the election. Therefore, both use modified democracy, FD. Roll Eyes

Can you explain the highlighted bit?

That is obvious from what I have already typed, FD. If you need it spelt out, I'd recommend you look up on Google the US's "Electoral College" votes versus the "popular vote". It will help you to understand the point I am making. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #19 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 5:07pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:37pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Quote:

Democracy is practised in many Islamic nations, including Iran (in, I admit a modified form but no more than in the USA).

Can you explain what you mean by this Brian?

Democracy depends upon the citizenry voting. This occurs in both the US and Iran. Both use a modified outcome to determine who won the election. Therefore, both use modified democracy, FD. Roll Eyes

Can you explain the highlighted bit?

I can feel another 'Kodak moment' coming on.

Brian's about to be thrown under the bus, as always.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk. poor, poor, Herbie. How is your Dual Citizenship coming along? When are you moving back to the PRC? Roll Eyes

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #20 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 6:46pm

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Quote:

Democracy is practised in many Islamic nations, including Iran (in, I admit a modified form but no more than in the USA).

Can you explain what you mean by this Brian?

Democracy depends upon the citizenry voting. This occurs in both the US and Iran. Both use a modified outcome to determine who won the election. Therefore, both use modified democracy, FD. Roll Eyes

Can you explain the highlighted bit?

FD, could you please explain the democratic elements of Roman government under the Caesars? Include in your account their systems of popular representation. Finally, compare and contrast them with the tribal councils of the early caliphates.

When you're done doing that, we'll revisit your graph, okay? I'm even happy to give your inbreeding map another peek.

If you answer, we could carry this conversation on for another few years. And we all know how much you want that, ya?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 80194 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Iranian democracy Reply #21 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 7:44pm Execute ten a week until the rest learn to vote the right way.,....
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Gordon

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #22 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 8:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9^th, 2017 at 10:26pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 9^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

I hold more hope for Persians over the sunnis arab nut jobs

The Persians at least into art and music and I think it will be that which leads them out of the darkness of islam.

You know, that's an interesting comment, Gordon. Unusually so for you. You realise that 20 years ago, people like you and Soren, and FD and Herbie and everybody else was saying exactly the reverse? "Better the Sunnis than those nutjob Sh'ia!" Roll Eyes

See I'd have never picked the Sunnis over the Persians.

Just a casual glance at hard-line sunnis shows a grim spartian culture of total submission to Islam nearly devoid of art and music and colour.

Persians have a very fine culture of art and music which predates Islam and it's continued to seep thru and ads colour to their lives, and despite the hardline Shia whackjob tendencies, I think it's that which will open the window to an overall more enlightened culture, free of Islam.

The only reason one would have backed the Sunnis over the Shia was for geopolitical reasons.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #23 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 8:53pm

Gordon wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 8:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9^th, 2017 at 10:26pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 9^th, 2017 at 10:05pm:

I hold more hope for Persians over the sunnis arab nut jobs

The Persians at least into art and music and I think it will be that which leads them out of the darkness of islam.

You know, that's an interesting comment, Gordon. Unusually so for you. You realise that 20 years ago, people like you and Soren, and FD and Herbie and everybody else was saying exactly the reverse? "Better the Sunnis than those nutjob Sh'ia!" Roll Eyes

See I'd have never picked the Sunnis over the Persians.

Just a casual glance at hard-line sunnis shows a grim spartian culture of total submission to Islam nearly devoid of art and music and colour.

Persians have a very fine culture of art and music which predates Islam and it's continued to seep thru and ads colour to their lives, and despite the hardline Shia whackjob tendencies, I think it's that which will open the window to an overall more enlightened culture, free of Islam.

The only reason one would have backed the Sunnis over the Shia was for geopolitical reasons.

An interesting conclusion, Gordon. One that President Reagan subscribed to, when he backed the Afghani Mujihadeen against the Soviets. Oh, and the Iraqis against the Iranians and the Kuwaitis against the Iranians and the Saudis against the Iranians. Funny, everybody seemed to be anti-Iranian, anti-Shi'ia in those days. Nowadays, it's all anti-Sunni...

Gee, I wonder if geopolitics is more important than religio-politics in the eyes of the secular West? Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2017 at 5:00pm by Brian Ross »

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freediver

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #24 - Dec 10^th, 2017 at 9:18pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 5:05pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 2:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 12:58pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:33am:

Quote:

Democracy is practised in many Islamic nations, including Iran (in, I admit a modified form but no more than in the USA).

Can you explain what you mean by this Brian?

Democracy depends upon the citizenry voting. This occurs in both the US and Iran. Both use a modified outcome to determine who won the election. Therefore, both use modified democracy, FD. Roll Eyes

Can you explain the highlighted bit?

That is obvious from what I have already typed, FD. If you need it spelt out, I'd recommend you look up on Google the US's "Electoral College" votes versus the "popular vote". It will help you to understand the point I am making. Roll Eyes

Brian this is no less idiotic than comparing our democracy with Iran because we have representatives rather than direct democracy. It is still a far cry from the circular appointment process used in Iran.

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Yadda

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #25 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:58am

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

.....the circular appointment process used in Iran.

In the Iranian democratic process, it appears, that THE GUARDIAN COUNCIL controls who may stand as a candidate in all elections [for places in their parliament].

Yadda said.....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1234921577/13#13
Quote:

There is an informative BBC page here, a graphic presentation [click on different parts of the graphic] which reveals the structure and tight control of political power within IRAN.....

It is all very incestuous.

The clerics [not Allah] decide, who can stand for political office, and who can participate in voting.

IRAN - GUARDIAN COUNCIL
[on the page that loads......] "Click on the chart.....to unravel Iran's complex political system"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/iran_power/html/guardian_co...

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Brian Ross

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #26 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 5:02pm

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

Brian this is no less idiotic than comparing our democracy with Iran because we have representatives rather than direct democracy. It is still a far cry from the circular appointment process used in Iran.

So, the circular appointment process of the "primaries" doesn't count to you, FD? The use of an "electoral college" versus the "popular vote"? I never claimed they were identical BTW, just "similar". Roll Eyes

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Iranian democracy Reply #27 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 11:06am Iran is partially democratic, but not to the same extent as America or Australia.
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freediver

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Re: Iranian democracy
Reply #28 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:34pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 5:02pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 9:18pm:

Brian this is no less idiotic than comparing our democracy with Iran because we have representatives rather than direct democracy. It is still a far cry from the circular appointment process used in Iran.

So, the circular appointment process of the "primaries" doesn't count to you, FD? The use of an "electoral college" versus the "popular vote"? I never claimed they were identical BTW, just "similar". Roll Eyes

How is it circular Brian?

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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Iranian democracy Reply #29 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:54pm If I may make a point about the electoral college. It is a 'democratic' manner of voting because the electors vote according to the will of the people, which is the democratic principal. HOWEVER, It is not a majoritarian system, because of how the value of votes is determined by the electors.
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