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Milo and promoters billed for police protection (Read 12389 times)
Captain Caveman
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #90 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
I think it's time Australia started charging and locking up these violent left wing nazis. They are a disgrace. They are the true violent humans.



Yes, but I think you'll find FD wants to leave the right wing Nazis alone.

Superior culture, innit.


Dunno.
But have you ever tried to put across a difference to a leftist. They call you names, threaten you, give you demeaning labels. Bloody disgraceful and you don't even have to be a right wing.



I know - take that hideous Yassmin woman. She had the hyde to call us racist. Us!

So abusive, no unfair.


Why? Cause Australia doesn't need islam Grin
We accept all races but our law and culture is to stay. We don't bend and pretend. Respect the hand that helps you.
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Gordon
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #91 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:17pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:57pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:55pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:45pm:
Silly me, how could she climax with most of her genitals sliced off.


Have you not tried your anus?


Greg, is that you?


No, I'm Karnal. What have they done with your genitals?


Give me your snapchat ID and we can satisfy your curiosity once and for all.


I don't have one.

As Herbie would say, how very dare you?


Oh well, you'll just have to fantasize about it.
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IBI
 
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freediver
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At my desk.
Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #92 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 7:46pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 2:25pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 7:35am:
freediver wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 8:57pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 8:24pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 2:25pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 12:55pm:
The OP makes it sound like Milo cannot be forced to pay the bill, and I do not think he should. We need harsher penalties for people using violence to achieve censorship.

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 11:21am:
I agree....If you hold an event that needs police protection then you should be charged for that protection or take measures to ensure public safety for all concerned....Protesting is not illegal in Australia!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Are you in favour of allowing groups like antifa to silence these speakers by making it too expensive for them and their supporters to gather anywhere? Is that really the sort of society you want?


I would be happy if the police arrested the trouble makers (both sides) and charged them with an offence so Milo or anyone else can sue them for the cost of security....If you don't need security you don't have to pay for it!!!

Huh Huh Huh


Why should Milo have to chase them up? Most of the antifa mob are dole bludgers anyway.

Are you saying you are in favour of antifa being able to shut people like Milo down by making it too expensive for them to express their opinion, so long as there is a theoretical possibility of them recovering some of the money?

Or have you simply not thought it through?


I will put it this way....

Milo thinks he is a rock star....If you have Rock concert you must provide security....Milo's concert needed 350 police in riot gear to keep him alive....If Milo and other celebrities who are in a similar position sue these organisations and individuals for the cost of the security then some of these dickheads would think twice about causing trouble....Otherwise you pay the price regardless???

Huh Huh Huh


When was the last time a rock concert needed hundreds of police to protect from people trying to stop the concert?

How are you making a different point? Milo paid for the security inside the premises. He should not have to pay for the police to round up violent antifa morons out on the street.

How is this any different from you promoting the idea that people should be able to use violence and threats of violence to shut down a speaking engagement, by holding the speaker financially accountable for the moronic actions of the opposition crowd out on the street? Are you just going to find another way to say the same stupid thing?

Is this what you actually support Phil? Using violence to shut down free speech? Or are you more the "reject reality and replace it with my own" type?


Promoters have to factor in the cost of security before bringing in dickheads who incite the public....WTF should my taxpayer dollars pay for any cretin to spew crap from any political persuasion....Good on the Victorian police for letting these promoters know there is a price for intollerance!!!

Smiley Smiley Smiley


Your tax dollars are being spent on protecting people and property outside the venue from the moronic antifa mob.

Are you having trouble giving a straight answer because you know you are on the wrong side of this one Phil? Let's try again. Do you support the use of violence and threats of violence to shut down hate speech, by making it too expensive to express controversial opinions?

Do you support holding Milo financially accountable for the moronic actions of the imbeciles trying to prevent his talks from going ahead?


I have made my point....When promoters schedule these events the cost of police protection should be factored in....Right, left, black or white I do not care....Why should taxpayers pay for any dickheads to spew their hatred....Otherwise let both sides go at it and pick up the bodies when it's all done and dusted....The very reason for Milo coming here was to stir up sh!t....Let him pay for it IMO!!!

Smiley Smiley Smiley


Still having trouble with the whole straight answer thing eh?

Do you support the use of violence and threats of violence to shut down free speech, by making it too expensive to express controversial opinions?

Do you support holding Milo financially accountable for the moronic actions of the imbeciles trying to prevent his talks from going ahead?

And why did you edit the post of mine that you quoted? Are you really that afraid of a simple question that you have to make it disappear?
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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #93 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:37pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
I think it's time Australia started charging and locking up these violent left wing nazis. They are a disgrace. They are the true violent humans.



Yes, but I think you'll find FD wants to leave the right wing Nazis alone.

Superior culture, innit.


Dunno.
But have you ever tried to put across a difference to a leftist. They call you names, threaten you, give you demeaning labels. Bloody disgraceful and you don't even have to be a right wing.



I know - take that hideous Yassmin woman. She had the hyde to call us racist. Us!

So abusive, no unfair.


Why? Cause Australia doesn't need islam Grin
We accept all races but our law and culture is to stay. We don't bend and pretend. Respect the hand that helps you.


That's right. These people offend us just by coming here.

How very dare they.
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #94 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:40pm
 
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:17pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:57pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:55pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:45pm:
Silly me, how could she climax with most of her genitals sliced off.


Have you not tried your anus?


Greg, is that you?


No, I'm Karnal. What have they done with your genitals?


Give me your snapchat ID and we can satisfy your curiosity once and for all.


I don't have one.

As Herbie would say, how very dare you?


Oh well, you'll just have to fantasize about it.


He'll need to file it with all the rest of his fantasies 😂
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Gordon
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Gordon
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #95 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:42pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:37pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
I think it's time Australia started charging and locking up these violent left wing nazis. They are a disgrace. They are the true violent humans.



Yes, but I think you'll find FD wants to leave the right wing Nazis alone.

Superior culture, innit.


Dunno.
But have you ever tried to put across a difference to a leftist. They call you names, threaten you, give you demeaning labels. Bloody disgraceful and you don't even have to be a right wing.



I know - take that hideous Yassmin woman. She had the hyde to call us racist. Us!

So abusive, no unfair.


Why? Cause Australia doesn't need islam Grin
We accept all races but our law and culture is to stay. We don't bend and pretend. Respect the hand that helps you.


That's right. These people offend us just by coming here.

How very dare they.


Is islam a particularly progressive culture?  They seem to be tracking about 500 years behind western society.
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IBI
 
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Lisa Jones
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Posts: 39047
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #96 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:44pm
 
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
I think it's time Australia started charging and locking up these violent left wing nazis. They are a disgrace. They are the true violent humans.



Yes, but I think you'll find FD wants to leave the right wing Nazis alone.

Superior culture, innit.


Dunno.
But have you ever tried to put across a difference to a leftist. They call you names, threaten you, give you demeaning labels. Bloody disgraceful and you don't even have to be a right wing.



I know - take that hideous Yassmin woman. She had the hyde to call us racist. Us!

So abusive, no unfair.


Why? Cause Australia doesn't need islam Grin

We accept all races but our law and culture is to stay.

We don't bend and pretend.

Respect the hand that helps you.



What exactly did you mean by "we don't bend and pretend"???

Shocked


Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
Mattyfisk
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Australian Politics

Posts: 91855
Gender: male
Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #97 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 7:46pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 2:25pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 7:35am:
freediver wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 8:57pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 8:24pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 2:25pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 12:55pm:
The OP makes it sound like Milo cannot be forced to pay the bill, and I do not think he should. We need harsher penalties for people using violence to achieve censorship.

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 7th, 2017 at 11:21am:
I agree....If you hold an event that needs police protection then you should be charged for that protection or take measures to ensure public safety for all concerned....Protesting is not illegal in Australia!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Are you in favour of allowing groups like antifa to silence these speakers by making it too expensive for them and their supporters to gather anywhere? Is that really the sort of society you want?


I would be happy if the police arrested the trouble makers (both sides) and charged them with an offence so Milo or anyone else can sue them for the cost of security....If you don't need security you don't have to pay for it!!!

Huh Huh Huh


Why should Milo have to chase them up? Most of the antifa mob are dole bludgers anyway.

Are you saying you are in favour of antifa being able to shut people like Milo down by making it too expensive for them to express their opinion, so long as there is a theoretical possibility of them recovering some of the money?

Or have you simply not thought it through?


I will put it this way....

Milo thinks he is a rock star....If you have Rock concert you must provide security....Milo's concert needed 350 police in riot gear to keep him alive....If Milo and other celebrities who are in a similar position sue these organisations and individuals for the cost of the security then some of these dickheads would think twice about causing trouble....Otherwise you pay the price regardless???

Huh Huh Huh


When was the last time a rock concert needed hundreds of police to protect from people trying to stop the concert?

How are you making a different point? Milo paid for the security inside the premises. He should not have to pay for the police to round up violent antifa morons out on the street.

How is this any different from you promoting the idea that people should be able to use violence and threats of violence to shut down a speaking engagement, by holding the speaker financially accountable for the moronic actions of the opposition crowd out on the street? Are you just going to find another way to say the same stupid thing?

Is this what you actually support Phil? Using violence to shut down free speech? Or are you more the "reject reality and replace it with my own" type?


Promoters have to factor in the cost of security before bringing in dickheads who incite the public....WTF should my taxpayer dollars pay for any cretin to spew crap from any political persuasion....Good on the Victorian police for letting these promoters know there is a price for intollerance!!!

Smiley Smiley Smiley


Your tax dollars are being spent on protecting people and property outside the venue from the moronic antifa mob.

Are you having trouble giving a straight answer because you know you are on the wrong side of this one Phil? Let's try again. Do you support the use of violence and threats of violence to shut down hate speech, by making it too expensive to express controversial opinions?

Do you support holding Milo financially accountable for the moronic actions of the imbeciles trying to prevent his talks from going ahead?


I have made my point....When promoters schedule these events the cost of police protection should be factored in....Right, left, black or white I do not care....Why should taxpayers pay for any dickheads to spew their hatred....Otherwise let both sides go at it and pick up the bodies when it's all done and dusted....The very reason for Milo coming here was to stir up sh!t....Let him pay for it IMO!!!

Smiley Smiley Smiley


Still having trouble with the whole straight answer thing eh?

Do you support the use of violence and threats of violence to shut down free speech, by making it too expensive to express controversial opinions?

Do you support holding Milo financially accountable for the moronic actions of the imbeciles trying to prevent his talks from going ahead?

And why did you edit the post of mine that you quoted? Are you really that afraid of a simple question that you have to make it disappear?


Yes, FD, I think Phil is having trouble answering your questions properly. Do you feel offended? He has no right to do that surely. So abusive, so unfair.

Do you want to answer mine?

Why or why not?
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Gordon
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Gordon
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #98 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:44pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:40pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:17pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:57pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:55pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:45pm:
Silly me, how could she climax with most of her genitals sliced off.


Have you not tried your anus?


Greg, is that you?


No, I'm Karnal. What have they done with your genitals?


Give me your snapchat ID and we can satisfy your curiosity once and for all.


I don't have one.

As Herbie would say, how very dare you?


Oh well, you'll just have to fantasize about it.


He'll need to file it with all the rest of his fantasies 😂


Hes asked me about the appearance of my penis on at least 20 occasions.  I can't tell you how glad he lives way out in the western suburbs well away from me.

Yuck.
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IBI
 
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philperth2010
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #99 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:47pm
 
Freediver wrote....
Quote:
Do you support holding Milo financially accountable for the moronic actions of the imbeciles trying to prevent his talks from going ahead?


No....The Victorian police are....My solution was for Milo to sue the dickheads....Either way I do not believe taxpayers should have to pay for it....Everyone knew there was going to be trouble as there where 350 riot police there and the media....A very successful advertising promotion for Milo in his line of work???

Smiley Smiley Smiley
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #100 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:49pm
 
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:42pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:37pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
I think it's time Australia started charging and locking up these violent left wing nazis. They are a disgrace. They are the true violent humans.



Yes, but I think you'll find FD wants to leave the right wing Nazis alone.

Superior culture, innit.


Dunno.
But have you ever tried to put across a difference to a leftist. They call you names, threaten you, give you demeaning labels. Bloody disgraceful and you don't even have to be a right wing.



I know - take that hideous Yassmin woman. She had the hyde to call us racist. Us!

So abusive, no unfair.


Why? Cause Australia doesn't need islam Grin
We accept all races but our law and culture is to stay. We don't bend and pretend. Respect the hand that helps you.


That's right. These people offend us just by coming here.

How very dare they.


Is islam a particularly progressive culture?  They seem to be tracking about 500 years behind western society.


Have you read any of the old boy's posts lately? He hasn't changed a word since 1517. He's positively carved in stone.

At least you people are carved in flesh and blood, so to speak. That's your covenant with G_d, no?

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freediver
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Posts: 47043
At my desk.
Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #101 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:50pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:47pm:
Freediver wrote....
Quote:
Do you support holding Milo financially accountable for the moronic actions of the imbeciles trying to prevent his talks from going ahead?


No....The Victorian police are....My solution was for Milo to sue the dickheads....Either way I do not believe taxpayers should have to pay for it....Everyone knew there was going to be trouble as there where 350 riot police there and the media....A very successful advertising promotion for Milo in his line of work???

Smiley Smiley Smiley


Why would Milo have to sue them unless the police were holding him financially responsible for the actions of the idiot antifa mob? And why are you afraid to give a straight answer?

Who do you think normally pays for police services? The crims they pick up?

Do you support holding Milo financially accountable for the moronic actions of the imbeciles trying to prevent his talks from going ahead?

Do you support the use of violence and threats of violence to shut down free speech, by making it too expensive to express controversial opinions?
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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!
WWW  
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Gordon
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Gordon
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #102 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:51pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:42pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:37pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
I think it's time Australia started charging and locking up these violent left wing nazis. They are a disgrace. They are the true violent humans.



Yes, but I think you'll find FD wants to leave the right wing Nazis alone.

Superior culture, innit.


Dunno.
But have you ever tried to put across a difference to a leftist. They call you names, threaten you, give you demeaning labels. Bloody disgraceful and you don't even have to be a right wing.



I know - take that hideous Yassmin woman. She had the hyde to call us racist. Us!

So abusive, no unfair.


Why? Cause Australia doesn't need islam Grin
We accept all races but our law and culture is to stay. We don't bend and pretend. Respect the hand that helps you.


That's right. These people offend us just by coming here.

How very dare they.


Is islam a particularly progressive culture?  They seem to be tracking about 500 years behind western society.


Have you read any of the old boy's posts lately? He hasn't changed a word since 1517. He's positively carved in stone.

At least you people are carved in flesh and blood, so to speak. That's your covenant with G_d, no?



I'm an atheist, for the 500th time. Is this when you ask me about my penis?
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IBI
 
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Lisa Jones
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Posts: 39047
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Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #103 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:54pm
 
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:44pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:40pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:17pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:06pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:57pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:55pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:45pm:
Silly me, how could she climax with most of her genitals sliced off.


Have you not tried your anus?


Greg, is that you?


No, I'm Karnal. What have they done with your genitals?


Give me your snapchat ID and we can satisfy your curiosity once and for all.


I don't have one.

As Herbie would say, how very dare you?


Oh well, you'll just have to fantasize about it.


He'll need to file it with all the rest of his fantasies 😂


Hes asked me about the appearance of my penis on at least 20 occasions.  I can't tell you how glad he lives way out in the western suburbs well away from me.

Yuck.


Oh dear God....😱
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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Lisa Jones
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Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Milo and promoters billed for police protection
Reply #104 - Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:54pm
 
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:51pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:49pm:
Gordon wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:42pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 9:37pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 8th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
I think it's time Australia started charging and locking up these violent left wing nazis. They are a disgrace. They are the true violent humans.



Yes, but I think you'll find FD wants to leave the right wing Nazis alone.

Superior culture, innit.


Dunno.
But have you ever tried to put across a difference to a leftist. They call you names, threaten you, give you demeaning labels. Bloody disgraceful and you don't even have to be a right wing.



I know - take that hideous Yassmin woman. She had the hyde to call us racist. Us!

So abusive, no unfair.


Why? Cause Australia doesn't need islam Grin
We accept all races but our law and culture is to stay. We don't bend and pretend. Respect the hand that helps you.


That's right. These people offend us just by coming here.

How very dare they.


Is islam a particularly progressive culture?  They seem to be tracking about 500 years behind western society.


Have you read any of the old boy's posts lately? He hasn't changed a word since 1517. He's positively carved in stone.

At least you people are carved in flesh and blood, so to speak. That's your covenant with G_d, no?



I'm an atheist, for the 500th time. Is this when you ask me about my penis?


Oh dear God 😱
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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