Australian Politics Forum - The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.

philperth2010

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #165 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:06am

Setanta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:27pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:23pm:

Setanta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:17pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:14pm:

Setanta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:11pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:06pm:

Setanta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 11:00pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 10:58pm:

Setanta wrote on Dec 10^th, 2017 at 9:23pm:

Phil, would a factory that could make any latex product you choose be liable if they refused to take your order to make dildos? The owner of the factory may not like making dildos, even while they can, because dykes use them. Is that OK?

Yes of course....You could force any company to make any product line you dictate!!!

Roll Eyes

Don't you see a cake shop as a factory for making cakes?

You are joking right....Does the factory make custom cakes to order???

Huh

What? You just said you can't order a manufacturer to make a particular product that they are equipped to make and in the material the manufacturer say he can make in any shape so why must a cake manufacturer be help to a different standard?

Bullshit....Read my response again and apologise!!!

You could go to Boeing and force them to build you a submarine especially if you are gay!!!

Roll Eyes

No need to take that tone with me Brian, I know what I said, I suggest you reread. I never said the factory makes cakes, I said it specialises in making products from latex in any form the customer wants.

edit: You said it was OK for such a manufacturer to turn down that order. I'm asking what is the difference between that and cake, besides the materials.

Who is Brian....Is that some sort of insult???

The cake shop provides custom made (to order) cakes and the factory provides mass produced products....I thought you where joking???

Smiley

Oops, no, it was a slip, sorry. Not intentional. I hope you accept my apology for that and answer the question better than that. The factory can make anything out of Latex. If you pay enough they will do one offs like any capitalist.

If you refuse to provide a product to someone based on their race religion or sexuality then you can fall foul of the anti discrimination act....If you refuse because you do not provide or make a certain product it would come down to the reason you cannot make that product....If the reason is because you are discriminating against the customer then you can be charged under the act!!!

Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #166 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:47am

They were happy to sell to the gay customers, as explained in the original article and pointed out many times since. If you make a customised product it is entirely at your discretion what product you create. The distinction between discriminating against a product vs customer in that context is meaningless.

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philperth2010

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #167 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 9:04am

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:47am:

They were happy to sell to the gay customers, as explained in the original article and pointed out many times since. If you make a customised product it is entirely at your discretion what product you create. The distinction between discriminating against a product vs customer in that context is meaningless.

Really....So it makes absolutely no difference what the customer wants....Do you understand what customised means....Try to understand the law and not what you believe should be the law!!!

Roll Eyes

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Mortdooley

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #168 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 10:11am

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 7:28am:

Mortdooley wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:54am:

This is the failure of the Civil Rights Act, the individual has no Rights when a member of a recognized group feels discriminated against.

Can anyone out sort through this hysterical rant and gibberish ...

- then let us ALL know who these victims of discrimination are,
as a fallout from Marriage Equality Legislation in Australia ?

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you!

Stop thinking of it as discrimination and see it as freedom of choice. Someone else can bake the cake and make the sale. The disappointed customer can take the rest of his business elsewhere in protest.

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freediver

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #169 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 12:09pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:47am:

They were happy to sell to the gay customers, as explained in the original article and pointed out many times since. If you make a customised product it is entirely at your discretion what product you create. The distinction between discriminating against a product vs customer in that context is meaningless.

Really....So it makes absolutely no difference what the customer wants....Do you understand what customised means....Try to understand the law and not what you believe should be the law!!!

Roll Eyes

Do you know what discretion means Phil?

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philperth2010

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #170 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:06pm

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:47am:

They were happy to sell to the gay customers, as explained in the original article and pointed out many times since. If you make a customised product it is entirely at your discretion what product you create. The distinction between discriminating against a product vs customer in that context is meaningless.

Really....So it makes absolutely no difference what the customer wants....Do you understand what customised means....Try to understand the law and not what you believe should be the law!!!

Roll Eyes

Do you know what discretion means Phil?

Yes....Do you know what the law is???

Huh

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2017 at 5:29pm by philperth2010 »

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #171 - Dec 11^th, 2017 at 9:21pm

Mortdooley wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 10:11am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 7:28am:

Mortdooley wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:54am:

This is the failure of the Civil Rights Act, the individual has no Rights when a member of a recognized group feels discriminated against.

Can anyone out sort through this hysterical rant and gibberish ...

- then let us ALL know who these victims of discrimination are,
as a fallout from Marriage Equality Legislation in Australia ?

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you!

Stop thinking of it as discrimination and see it as freedom of choice. Someone else can bake the cake and make the sale. The disappointed customer can take the rest of his business elsewhere in protest.

... and THAT - dear naïve one -is what we know as the "free market" and "democracy"

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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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freediver

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #172 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:37pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:06pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:47am:

They were happy to sell to the gay customers, as explained in the original article and pointed out many times since. If you make a customised product it is entirely at your discretion what product you create. The distinction between discriminating against a product vs customer in that context is meaningless.

Really....So it makes absolutely no difference what the customer wants....Do you understand what customised means....Try to understand the law and not what you believe should be the law!!!

Roll Eyes

Do you know what discretion means Phil?

Yes....Do you know what the law is???

Huh

So why did you post that crap about it making no difference what the customer wants? What point are you trying to make?

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cods

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #173 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:50pm

Mortdooley wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:54am:

This is the failure of the Civil Rights Act, the individual has no Rights when a member of a recognized group feels discriminated against.

if a female turned up and demanded entrance to an all male club..... do they have the right not to admit her??.. or if they do allow her in ... not to serve her??..

what are the laws on that???...

I seem to recall where certain councils had made rules where public swimming pools could be closed at certain times and made available for females swimmers only...

meaning if a male swimmer turned up during that time he would be refused service....

so what is the difference refusing to make a cake?...

btw I will make a freaking wedding cake if the price is right!

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philperth2010

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #174 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 2:26pm

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:06pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:47am:

They were happy to sell to the gay customers, as explained in the original article and pointed out many times since. If you make a customised product it is entirely at your discretion what product you create. The distinction between discriminating against a product vs customer in that context is meaningless.

Really....So it makes absolutely no difference what the customer wants....Do you understand what customised means....Try to understand the law and not what you believe should be the law!!!

Roll Eyes

Do you know what discretion means Phil?

Yes....Do you know what the law is???

Huh

So why did you post that crap about it making no difference what the customer wants? What point are you trying to make?

It has everything to do with what the customer wants....What are you talking about???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Captain Caveman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6204 Gender:	Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court. Reply #175 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 2:30pm All the baker has to say is they make certain cakes. Write up a menu. If it ain't on the menu then we don't sell it. No gay cake for you. Arnotts biscuits are made to halal standard yet there is no stamp on the package.
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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14000 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court. Reply #176 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 5:16pm I'd imagine these "persecuted" wedding cake bakers would have a few issues with this sort of cake - as well - if they thought they'd get away with it and boy, this one would REALLY blow a gasket !
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philperth2010

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #177 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 5:25pm

Captain Caveman wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 2:30pm:

All the baker has to say is they make certain cakes. Write up a menu.
If it ain't on the menu then we don't sell it. No gay cake for you.

Arnotts biscuits are made to halal standard yet there is no stamp on the package.

Fair enough....Where does a baker stand who advertises custom cakes made to order???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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philperth2010

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #178 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 6:00pm

cods wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:50pm:

Mortdooley wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:54am:

This is the failure of the Civil Rights Act, the individual has no Rights when a member of a recognized group feels discriminated against.

if a female turned up and demanded entrance to an all male club..... do they have the right not to admit her??.. or if they do allow her in ... not to serve her??..

what are the laws on that???...

You can hire a venue for a private function Cods or require membership (club)....If it was open to the public then anyone can enter provided they adhere to dress codes ect!!!

I seem to recall where certain councils had made rules where public swimming pools could be closed at certain times and made available for females swimmers only...

The council could hire out the pool at certain times the same they do for schools!!!

meaning if a male swimmer turned up during that time he would be refused service....

If the pool is reserved for a private group, no one would be allowed in!!!

so what is the difference refusing to make a cake?...

You cannot deny service based on race, religion or sexuality in Australia or the USA....The examples you give are not discriminating against anyone based on that criteria!!!

btw I will make a freaking wedding cake if the price is right!

Good on you Cods!!!

I hope that explains it for you Cods!!!

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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freediver

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Re: The gay wedding cake has hit the US supreme court.
Reply #179 - Dec 12^th, 2017 at 8:30pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 2:26pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 12^th, 2017 at 12:37pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 1:06pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 12:09pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2017 at 8:47am:

They were happy to sell to the gay customers, as explained in the original article and pointed out many times since. If you make a customised product it is entirely at your discretion what product you create. The distinction between discriminating against a product vs customer in that context is meaningless.

Really....So it makes absolutely no difference what the customer wants....Do you understand what customised means....Try to understand the law and not what you believe should be the law!!!

Roll Eyes

Do you know what discretion means Phil?

Yes....Do you know what the law is???

Huh

So why did you post that crap about it making no difference what the customer wants? What point are you trying to make?

It has everything to do with what the customer wants....What are you talking about???

Huh

I am trying to get you to make sense. Never mind.

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