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Mattyfisk

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Re: Immigration
Reply #15 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:12pm

Frank wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

Elsewhere in Diversity News:

Muslim school receives 'inadequate' Ofsted rating after loos did not have toilet paper for 'cultural reasons'

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/83/8399eb119f320953f84f83adadc29f36458d73cdd41490a44...

When visiting the subcontinent, one always eats with one's right hand, and washes with the left.

When in Rome, old chap. Superior culture. Isn't it.

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Gordon

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Re: Immigration
Reply #16 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:16pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:12pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

Elsewhere in Diversity News:

Muslim school receives 'inadequate' Ofsted rating after loos did not have toilet paper for 'cultural reasons'

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/83/8399eb119f320953f84f83adadc29f36458d73cdd41490a44...

When visiting the subcontinent, one always eats with one's right hand, and washes with the left.

When in Rome, old chap. Superior culture. Isn't it.

Is Stoke-on-Trent in the subcontinent? I know you have occasional geography blunders like Indonesia / Pakistan Cheesy

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Frank

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Re: Immigration
Reply #17 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:27pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:12pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:

Elsewhere in Diversity News:

Muslim school receives 'inadequate' Ofsted rating after loos did not have toilet paper for 'cultural reasons'

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/83/8399eb119f320953f84f83adadc29f36458d73cdd41490a44...

When visiting the subcontinent, one always eats with one's right hand, and washes with the left.

When in Rome, old chap. Superior culture. Isn't it.

Yeah, visit the sub-continent, Araby, 'Muslim lands' before they visits you in Stoke-on-Trent - and Lakemba and Dearborn and Malmo, Paris etc, etc.

Do they know right from left? We all pause when that question pops up.

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Frank

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Re: Immigration
Reply #18 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:34pm

82 per cent of people sent to prison for gang rape are foreign born

Swedish newspaper Friatider says a large amount of data from the Criminal Data System was secretly provided to a far-right nationalist group called “Nordfront”. Together with sex crime website “Gang Rape Sweden” they decided to publish the leaked judicial database on Friday.

The leaked data discloses: Decision date, name, social security number, court, destination number, date of judgment, period of imprisonment, region and place of investigation for the prosecution of suspects.

Files of 168,000 sentences that were given between 10 May 2004 and 8 January 2015 were published. Of the 83,656 individuals involved, 37,735 (or 45 per cent) were foreign born, Nordfront writes. Of the people sentenced to 9 and 10 years in prison, 70 per cent and 68.8 per cent were foreign born.
http://www.friatider.se/gigantisk-databas-ver-invandrares-brott-sajten-polisanm-...

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Auggie

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Re: Immigration
Reply #19 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:39pm

Frank wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2017 at 5:40pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2017 at 2:26pm:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie,dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Quoting an opinion from 2013? As L.P. Hartley said, "the past is a different country, they do things differently there." Opinions are always changing. What a shame you don't have anything more recent which is close to how the Australians of today feel about Asylum Seekers.

Let me guess your problem is not with numbers in the immigration debate but where those numbers come from, where the immigrants originate from? You don't like "tinted people" as Karnal likes to call them, or Muslims or Asians or non-Protestant Christians or Southern Europeans or well, basically anybody who isn't in your opinion WASP enough for your tastes. Tsk, tsk, you really are a Racist, aren't you? Now, please, settle back on the couch and tell us how much you hated the coloured people at school... Roll Eyes

My problem is the numbers AND that most of those large numbers come from inferior cultures, bringing their inferior outlook, practices and customs with them, cultivating, preserving and multiplying them here.

That's my problem.

I want immigration to be slowed and I want immigrants from culturally compatible countries. Those who are from culturally incompatible countries should assimilate and not spread their inferior cultures and rejoice in them as if they were equal to (or better, in the minds of the most insolent and stupid) the civilisation that took them in.

I have absolutely no interest in pretending that some Lao peasant or Afghan goatherd or Lebanese brickie's labourer or Chinese waiter has a culture equal to what he finds here, Europe, North America UNLESS he has assimilated.

The great thing about Western civilisation is that it is open to all to assimilate into it - to a large extent because it is a synthesis of the best of all cultures. That's why migration is one way - to the West. There is no great movement of Westerner migrants to backward countries.

I believe it's solely a numbers issue. It doesn't matter where they come from. The smaller the number the easier it is to integrate them gradually over time. It's much harder with more numbers.

I'm not sure what the numbers currently are, but we should drastically reduce immigration to around 30,000 per year, even less. Treat everyone the same, irrespective of where they're from; but reduce numbers.

NUMBERS, NUMBERS, NUMBERS. FOLKS!

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Gordon

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Re: Immigration
Reply #20 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:44pm

Auggie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2017 at 5:40pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2017 at 2:26pm:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie,dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Quoting an opinion from 2013? As L.P. Hartley said, "the past is a different country, they do things differently there." Opinions are always changing. What a shame you don't have anything more recent which is close to how the Australians of today feel about Asylum Seekers.

Let me guess your problem is not with numbers in the immigration debate but where those numbers come from, where the immigrants originate from? You don't like "tinted people" as Karnal likes to call them, or Muslims or Asians or non-Protestant Christians or Southern Europeans or well, basically anybody who isn't in your opinion WASP enough for your tastes. Tsk, tsk, you really are a Racist, aren't you? Now, please, settle back on the couch and tell us how much you hated the coloured people at school... Roll Eyes

My problem is the numbers AND that most of those large numbers come from inferior cultures, bringing their inferior outlook, practices and customs with them, cultivating, preserving and multiplying them here.

That's my problem.

I want immigration to be slowed and I want immigrants from culturally compatible countries. Those who are from culturally incompatible countries should assimilate and not spread their inferior cultures and rejoice in them as if they were equal to (or better, in the minds of the most insolent and stupid) the civilisation that took them in.

I have absolutely no interest in pretending that some Lao peasant or Afghan goatherd or Lebanese brickie's labourer or Chinese waiter has a culture equal to what he finds here, Europe, North America UNLESS he has assimilated.

The great thing about Western civilisation is that it is open to all to assimilate into it - to a large extent because it is a synthesis of the best of all cultures. That's why migration is one way - to the West. There is no great movement of Westerner migrants to backward countries.

I believe it's solely a numbers issue. It doesn't matter where they come from. The smaller the number the easier it is to integrate them gradually over time. It's much harder with more numbers.

I'm not sure what the numbers currently are, but we should drastically reduce immigration to around 30,000 per year, even less. Treat everyone the same, irrespective of where they're from; but reduce numbers.

NUMBERS, NUMBERS, NUMBERS. FOLKS!

My favourite analogy is immigration intake should be like adding salt to water.

If you add too much salt to a small amount of water it fails to disolve and sits on the bottom.

Suburbs like Lakemba are an example of this.

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Auggie

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Re: Immigration
Reply #21 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:57pm

Gordon wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Dec 5^th, 2017 at 8:39pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2017 at 5:40pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2017 at 2:26pm:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie,dearie, me. Poor, poor, Soren. Quoting an opinion from 2013? As L.P. Hartley said, "the past is a different country, they do things differently there." Opinions are always changing. What a shame you don't have anything more recent which is close to how the Australians of today feel about Asylum Seekers.

Let me guess your problem is not with numbers in the immigration debate but where those numbers come from, where the immigrants originate from? You don't like "tinted people" as Karnal likes to call them, or Muslims or Asians or non-Protestant Christians or Southern Europeans or well, basically anybody who isn't in your opinion WASP enough for your tastes. Tsk, tsk, you really are a Racist, aren't you? Now, please, settle back on the couch and tell us how much you hated the coloured people at school... Roll Eyes

My problem is the numbers AND that most of those large numbers come from inferior cultures, bringing their inferior outlook, practices and customs with them, cultivating, preserving and multiplying them here.

That's my problem.

I want immigration to be slowed and I want immigrants from culturally compatible countries. Those who are from culturally incompatible countries should assimilate and not spread their inferior cultures and rejoice in them as if they were equal to (or better, in the minds of the most insolent and stupid) the civilisation that took them in.

I have absolutely no interest in pretending that some Lao peasant or Afghan goatherd or Lebanese brickie's labourer or Chinese waiter has a culture equal to what he finds here, Europe, North America UNLESS he has assimilated.

The great thing about Western civilisation is that it is open to all to assimilate into it - to a large extent because it is a synthesis of the best of all cultures. That's why migration is one way - to the West. There is no great movement of Westerner migrants to backward countries.

I believe it's solely a numbers issue. It doesn't matter where they come from. The smaller the number the easier it is to integrate them gradually over time. It's much harder with more numbers.

I'm not sure what the numbers currently are, but we should drastically reduce immigration to around 30,000 per year, even less. Treat everyone the same, irrespective of where they're from; but reduce numbers.

NUMBERS, NUMBERS, NUMBERS. FOLKS!

My favourite analogy is immigration intake should be like adding salt to water.

If you add too much salt to a small amount of water it fails to disolve and sits on the bottom.

Suburbs like Lakemba are an example of this.

That's an issue with numbers. The less there are the easier it is for them to assimilate. And also, if they are sent to smaller cities like Hobart, Darwin or Adelaide where they can assimilate better. Problem is, everyone wants to go to Sydney.

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Frank

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Re: Immigration
Reply #22 - Dec 5^th, 2017 at 9:11pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2017 at 6:05pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk, your Racist beliefs are on show again, Soren. I wonder how do you determine if a culture is superior or inferior? Do you have a culture meter? Does it have a green zone and a red zone on it, just to make things easier for you?

In reality, when Immigrants migrate to Australia, they undertake to become a part of the Australian Multicultural society. They decide when and how much they will assimilate. If that means they don't want to wear a pair of thongs and a singlet all day, every day, that is up to them, not you, Soren. You have no ability to determine anything. Remember, 85% of Australians are happy with Multiculturalism here.

All immigrants are welcome, if they fulfil the requirements of the Immigration Programme. Doesn't matter what religion they believe in, even Christianity is welcome, Soren. Doesn't matter what clothing they like to wear, doesn't matter what food they like to eat. Doesn't matter as long as they agree to respect our laws. All the rest really is just frippery and it appears that frippery is what upsets you. Tough, Soren, tough. Your Danish culture is accepted just as much as the culture of an Afghani Refugee... Roll Eyes

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Auggie

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Re: Immigration
Reply #23 - Dec 6^th, 2017 at 11:04am

It's important to understand that any person is capable of assimilating and integrating into another culture; although it's easier to do so in Australia, US, Canada, etc. than say Japan.

If one non-white person lives among a whole bunch of white people, he/she is more likely to see the impetus to integrate than if that person lives in an isolated community of their own culture, as happens (so I'm told) in Lakemba and other Western Sydney suburbs.

We should significantly restrict all immigration to Australia in terms of numbers, and halt all immigration to Sydney and Melbourne. It is our prerogative to prioritize whichever part of the country we wish to send migrants to.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Immigration
Reply #24 - Dec 6^th, 2017 at 3:32pm

Numbers are important, I agree.

Assimilation is not as important - except to the Xenophobes/Racists/Islamophobes/etc.

Afterall, they cannot even define "assimilation" and how to measure it. Who cares if a person dresses differently? Who cares if they worship a different religion? Who cares if they eat different food? As long as it is all done within the existing Australian legal system and is not declared illegal, they aren't hurting anyone. If they choose to speak a different language, the only person they hurt is themselves. All it means is that they cannot communicate with other Australians.

What is required is for some maturity in this debate. The source of migrants is immaterial. They can come from the Moon for all I and most other people care. Their skin can be coloured green, their eyes purple, their hair blue. It makes no difference, if you're mature about it. What is required is acceptance, a willingness to tolerate other people, just as you expect your foibles to be tolerated.

By all means, lets talk numbers. Even the types of numbers. Lets leave all the Racism/Islamophobia/Xenophobia out. Of course, for some people, it's too hard. They cannot accept that some people aren't Aryan, like themselves. They hate people who look, act, seem different to themselves. We should not accept their narrow mindedness. They do not represent the views of most Australians. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Auggie

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Re: Immigration
Reply #25 - Dec 6^th, 2017 at 5:42pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 6^th, 2017 at 3:32pm:

Assimilation is not as important - except to the Xenophobes/Racists/Islamophobes/etc.

Afterall, they cannot even define "assimilation" and how to measure it. Who cares if a person dresses differently? Who cares if they worship a different religion? Who cares if they eat different food? As long as it is all done within the existing Australian legal system and is not declared illegal, they aren't hurting anyone. If they choose to speak a different language, the only person they hurt is themselves. All it means is that they cannot communicate with other Australians.

I agree that assimilation is difficult to define, and you make a good point in this regard. It has nothing to do with religion, food, clothing or anything like that. From a personal experience, integration (which is probably the better word) is about loyalty to the country in which you live - i.e. nationalism, although it doesn't need to be so overt. For e.g. are you first Australian? Or are you first Christian then Australian? It largely comes down to national identity. Second, and this is more difficult to determine, but how well does a person integrate with people outside of their own cultural/religious identity?

Speaking a different language doesn't really matter; but I think it's important that migrants can speak enough English to be independent and interact with people.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 6^th, 2017 at 3:32pm:

What is required is for some maturity in this debate. The source of migrants is immaterial. They can come from the Moon for all I and most other people care. Their skin can be coloured green, their eyes purple, their hair blue. It makes no difference, if you're mature about it. What is required is acceptance, a willingness to tolerate other people, just as you expect your foibles to be tolerated.

I agree with the idea of 'live and let live', absolutely. I also recognise that there is a dangerous ideology out there - a fascist, tribal, totalitarian, militant ideology, to which a large number of people subscribe. It doesn't mean that this is always going to be case; we need to look what is happening now. If there are people entering the country who do not believe in the rule of law, our institutions, and our values, particularly in large numbers, then there is risk that these values can pass down from generation to generation. This creates isolated pockets in society, which can breed intolerance, and narrowmindedness.

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The Progressive President

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Immigration Reply #26 - Dec 6^th, 2017 at 9:04pm I'll ignore bwian's crap because he's clueless and has been for at least 20 years. Assimilation and Integration were settlement policies before Multiculti Auggie. There is no assimilation required with Multiculti... you misunderstand what it is about if you think there is.
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Frank

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Re: Immigration
Reply #27 - Dec 6^th, 2017 at 10:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 6^th, 2017 at 3:32pm:

Numbers are important, I agree.

Assimilation is not as important - except to the Xenophobes/Racists/Islamophobes/etc.

Afterall, they cannot even define "assimilation" and how to measure it. Who cares if a person dresses differently? Who cares if they worship a different religion? Who cares if they eat different food? As long as it is all done within the existing Australian legal system and is not declared illegal, they aren't hurting anyone. If they choose to speak a different language, the only person they hurt is themselves. All it means is that they cannot communicate with other Australians.

A society, a community - solidarity, sympathy, bonding, mutual regard, respect, politeness, courtesy, shared references, memories, aims, getting what is NOT said, and so on - are NOT lived or defined legally, you stupid, blinkered old fool.

You are parrotting this legal crap because your idiocy doesn't withstand any REAL, lived experience.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Immigration
Reply #28 - Dec 6^th, 2017 at 11:08pm

Frank wrote on Dec 6^th, 2017 at 10:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 6^th, 2017 at 3:32pm:

Numbers are important, I agree.

Assimilation is not as important - except to the Xenophobes/Racists/Islamophobes/etc.

Afterall, they cannot even define "assimilation" and how to measure it. Who cares if a person dresses differently? Who cares if they worship a different religion? Who cares if they eat different food? As long as it is all done within the existing Australian legal system and is not declared illegal, they aren't hurting anyone. If they choose to speak a different language, the only person they hurt is themselves. All it means is that they cannot communicate with other Australians.

A society, a community - solidarity, sympathy, bonding, mutual regard, respect, politeness, courtesy, shared references, memories, aims, getting what is NOT said, and so on - are NOT lived or defined legally, you stupid, blinkered old fool.

You are parrotting this legal crap because your idiocy doesn't withstand any REAL, lived experience.

Good point, dear boy. Politeness.

You stupid, blinkered old fool.

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Auggie

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Re: Immigration
Reply #29 - Dec 7^th, 2017 at 3:42pm

Grendel wrote on Dec 6^th, 2017 at 9:04pm:

I'll ignore bwian crap because he's clueless and has been for at least 20 years.

Assimilation and Integration were settlement policies before Multiculti Auggie.

There is no assimilation required with Multiculti... you misunderstand what it is about if you think there is.

So, just to be clear: are you saying that multiculturalism is not what proponents say it is? How do you define multiculti??

Second, when you say 'before multiculturalism', you mean before we started to accept non-British immigrants to Australia?

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The Progressive President

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