let it go matty

Frank wrote on Nov 16^th, 2017 at 7:32pm:


Robyn J. Whitaker a scholar a scribe of religion.

It was at the behest of the pharisees (priests) and scribes (theologians) that the romans crucified Christ.

If ever I have heard words spoken from unbelieving folks it comes from the religious scholars and theologians of TODAY.

And their suppose to understand the Bible.

You hear a religious scholar or theologian talking about religion today they believe in God as much as the next atheist........

ABC refuses to acknowledge Muslims opposed ssm.



On the topic - Does anyone see anywhere that the ABC have actually done this ???

Q.   Who voted "NO" ?

A.    Who cares.

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 18^th, 2017 at 7:32pm:


Tont Abbott holds the record with 7 lies in 25 words, this didn't come close. poor effort.

Ajax wrote on Nov 18^th, 2017 at 5:35pm:



Just so.


Robyn J. Whitaker

Bromby Lecturer in Biblical Studies, Trinity College, University of Divinity

I am a biblical scholar and historian with a particular interest in the contemporary use (and misuse) of the bible in debates about sexuality, gender and ethics. I have research expertise in apocalypticism and the related topics of end of the world speculation, martyrdom, and images of evil. I am published in the areas of the visual culture of the Graeco-Roman world, its impact on biblical rhetoric, New Testament, and Judeo-Christian apocalyptic literature.



It is right and proper that Robyn J. Whitaker has her say. But there will never be a counter-argument in The Conversation because it's actually The Echo-chamber of PC pieties.

There is simply NO honest diversity of views in the West today, it's all politicies along identity lines - race, religion, sex.
The mind is well and truly made subservient to the baser passions.

Here's a Muslim defending the ethnic no vote in western Sydney.


Sydney Morning Herald-

Why western Sydney voted 'no'

Hussain Nadim
The "yes" vote has caused nationwide celebrations in Australia while sending a shockwave in western Sydney, which accounted for 12 of the 17 electorates that voted "no". "Yes" voting Australians are grappling to make sense of this. Is it poverty, lack of education, or unemployment that's the driving factor behind the voting decision of socially conservative communities in western Sydney or is it something else? Truth is, it is none of these.
Social pressures, religious ideology, and a migration pattern that is not conducive to integration played the most important role in western Sydney's voting behaviour.
Western Sydney is a home for many new migrant communities including the Muslims, Hindus, and Sikhs. Even the older established ethnic communities are still first generational and find it difficult to integrate in the wider Australian community. To understand their voting behaviour, one has to understand the cultural ethos and fears that drive their political decisions.
Many ethnic and religious communities that reside in Blaxland and Watson are on a different social and moral tangent to electorates elsewhere in Sydney. Up until the postal vote, interracial marriage was probably the most controversial issue in these socially conservative communities. As for contemplating same-sex marriage, even choosing marriage partners is at the discretion of parents, so same-sex marriage was inconceivable. To then have a national vote on same-sex marriage is beyond the understanding of most of these communities.
Many of the people from these ethnic and religious communities have left their homelands in Middle East, South Asia and elsewhere arriving in Australia to raise their children in peace and prosperity. To find themselves in a society that goes directly against the teachings of their religion is a major concern. As one of the families I talked to puts it: "We recently left Afghanistan to settle in Australia for the sake of our children, for a better and safe life. Now we are going to struggle raising our children in a society that goes directly against the basic teachings of our religion".

In such a scenario, Muslims and other conservative ethnic communities in western Sydney are likely to grow closer to the conservative bloc in Australia – it will be with mixed feelings and a struggle for many, but we have seen this before in the US.
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In the United States, Muslims historically supported the Republican Party given the shared social conservative ideology, especially on the issue of homosexuality and abortion. That decades long Muslim-Republican romance, however, ended after September 11 when the Republican government waged wars in the Middle East.
Muslims found themselves in an awkward situation, forced into supporting the Democrat Party that had a much better stance on the inclusion of Muslims in America, diversity, and war in the Middle East, but on the other hand was not only pro-choice but also bent upon legalising gay marriage in the US.
Last year when same-sex marriage in the US was legalised, the Muslim and many other conservative communities were horrified. My personal interaction with four Muslim families revealed their frustration with raising their children in America where society now allowed something that goes directly against the teachings of Islam – an entire section of the Koran is devoted against homosexuality.
As a Muslim parent living in Australia, how do you cope with that? There is no space to follow Islam selectively – either you are a Muslim or you are not, there is no such thing as a non-practicing Muslim or a gay Muslim given that homosexuality is strictly prohibited and in the majority of the Muslim countries, it is punishable by death.
Putting aside religious belief, homosexuality reflects on a family's respectability and its social standing. If your child had a same-sex marriage, not only would the child be banished from the community but your entire family would be ridiculed and ostracised.
With the stakes so high, on social and religious levels, western Sydney voters were always likely to come out and vote against same-sex marriage.
There is, however, a silver-lining in all this. The vote has made the ethnic communities more politically active. In some cases, it may prompt more tolerance towards interracial and inter-religious marriages, much less challenging now in relation to same-sex marriages. However, conservative politicians are likely to capitalise on this political activism and forge new alliances with the disgruntled communities.
Hussain Nadim is the coordinator of the South Asia Study Group, University of Sydney.
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