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European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam (Read 25225 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #15 - Nov 20th, 2017 at 2:45pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 1:28pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Why would I abandon it?


Because its self-evidently such a stupid thing to say. Just to clarify - we're talking about when you tried to justify your false claim that the Congo Free State article attributed 'drought' and 'weather' to the death toll - by mentioning the reference it made to famine. Implying that '[bad] weather' or 'drought' is simply a synonym for 'famine' - which, as I say, is self-evidently ridiculous. Famine merely refers to a shortage of food - which could be caused by a hundred different causes apart from drought or the weather.

Do you understand yet how forcibly removing farmers from their land and enslaving them in rubber harvesting (ie nothing to do with the weather) can cause famine?

freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Why is it "apologising" to ask you how many deaths you attribute to it?


Because it is such a blatant and transparent obfuscation tactic. Here we have the Belgians trampling into the Congo, and during a mere ~20 year reign of terror, cause an estimated 2-13 million deaths as a result of the rape and pillage of the country's natural resources. And here you are studiously avoiding the rape and pillage and murder, and desperately wanting to divert the conversation to insignificant deaths caused by arab diseases, as well as invent bullshit about the Europeans being there not to rape and pillage, but actually to treat and cure suffering caused by anyone and anything but the Europeans. But please, keep pretending you don't know what I mean by apologising for rape and pillage.


FD's not allowed to criticize Whitey, G. He's only allowed to come down on the tinted races.

Freeeedom, you see.
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #16 - Nov 20th, 2017 at 7:19pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 1:28pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Why would I abandon it?


Because its self-evidently such a stupid thing to say. Just to clarify - we're talking about when you tried to justify your false claim that the Congo Free State article attributed 'drought' and 'weather' to the death toll - by mentioning the reference it made to famine. Implying that '[bad] weather' or 'drought' is simply a synonym for 'famine' - which, as I say, is self-evidently ridiculous. Famine merely refers to a shortage of food - which could be caused by a hundred different causes apart from drought or the weather.

Do you understand yet how forcibly removing farmers from their land and enslaving them in rubber harvesting (ie nothing to do with the weather) can cause famine?

freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Why is it "apologising" to ask you how many deaths you attribute to it?


Because it is such a blatant and transparent obfuscation tactic. Here we have the Belgians trampling into the Congo, and during a mere ~20 year reign of terror, cause an estimated 2-13 million deaths as a result of the rape and pillage of the country's natural resources. And here you are studiously avoiding the rape and pillage and murder, and desperately wanting to divert the conversation to insignificant deaths caused by arab diseases, as well as invent bullshit about the Europeans being there not to rape and pillage, but actually to treat and cure suffering caused by anyone and anything but the Europeans. But please, keep pretending you don't know what I mean by apologising for rape and pillage.


Gandalf, it was one of your own pieces of evidence that explained that the Europeans were not deliberately killing people and were actually treating and curing diseases among the natives.

Do you still stand by this claim?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


Also, regarding this:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 9:50am:
freediver wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 8:33pm:
Am I supposed to go back through your last 18 days of posts


You did that anyway FD, and you quoted just about everything except the one quote that mattered. Perhaps it wouldn't go for 18 days if you simply listened to what I said (and what you even requoted) in the first place.


Is this you saying you were wrong? And if so, how are we supposed to figure out which of your posts 'matter', and which ones are lies?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2017 at 2:51pm:
While spinelessly apologising for the genocide in the Congo during the late 19th and early 20th century:

freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:38am:
But you are counting the deaths caused by the diseases introduced by Arab traders as being caused by Europeans, right? Even though those Europeans actually went to signficant effort to cure and treat them, saving a lot of lives in the process?


freediver wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 12:40pm:
Yes Gandalf. I understand that as soon as you read "whitey is to blame" your brain went into autopilot. But the number of deaths you quoted and attributed to Europeans included deaths caused by both weather, and diseases introduced by Arabs that the Europeans were actually trying to treat and cure. Your inability to think for yourself on this point is not an argument.


Ah, of course, its all a big misunderstanding...


Are you saying I am incorrect Gandalf? Or that the facts don't 'matter'?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #17 - Nov 20th, 2017 at 10:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 1:28pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Why would I abandon it?


Because its self-evidently such a stupid thing to say. Just to clarify - we're talking about when you tried to justify your false claim that the Congo Free State article attributed 'drought' and 'weather' to the death toll - by mentioning the reference it made to famine. Implying that '[bad] weather' or 'drought' is simply a synonym for 'famine' - which, as I say, is self-evidently ridiculous. Famine merely refers to a shortage of food - which could be caused by a hundred different causes apart from drought or the weather.

Do you understand yet how forcibly removing farmers from their land and enslaving them in rubber harvesting (ie nothing to do with the weather) can cause famine?

freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Why is it "apologising" to ask you how many deaths you attribute to it?


Because it is such a blatant and transparent obfuscation tactic. Here we have the Belgians trampling into the Congo, and during a mere ~20 year reign of terror, cause an estimated 2-13 million deaths as a result of the rape and pillage of the country's natural resources. And here you are studiously avoiding the rape and pillage and murder, and desperately wanting to divert the conversation to insignificant deaths caused by arab diseases, as well as invent bullshit about the Europeans being there not to rape and pillage, but actually to treat and cure suffering caused by anyone and anything but the Europeans. But please, keep pretending you don't know what I mean by apologising for rape and pillage.


Gandalf, it was one of your own pieces of evidence that explained that the Europeans were not deliberately killing people and were actually treating and curing diseases among the natives.

Do you still stand by this claim?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


Also, regarding this:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 14th, 2017 at 9:50am:
freediver wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 8:33pm:
Am I supposed to go back through your last 18 days of posts


You did that anyway FD, and you quoted just about everything except the one quote that mattered. Perhaps it wouldn't go for 18 days if you simply listened to what I said (and what you even requoted) in the first place.


Is this you saying you were wrong? And if so, how are we supposed to figure out which of your posts 'matter', and which ones are lies?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 16th, 2017 at 2:51pm:
While spinelessly apologising for the genocide in the Congo during the late 19th and early 20th century:

freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:38am:
But you are counting the deaths caused by the diseases introduced by Arab traders as being caused by Europeans, right? Even though those Europeans actually went to signficant effort to cure and treat them, saving a lot of lives in the process?


freediver wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 12:40pm:
Yes Gandalf. I understand that as soon as you read "whitey is to blame" your brain went into autopilot. But the number of deaths you quoted and attributed to Europeans included deaths caused by both weather, and diseases introduced by Arabs that the Europeans were actually trying to treat and cure. Your inability to think for yourself on this point is not an argument.


Ah, of course, its all a big misunderstanding...


Are you saying I am incorrect Gandalf? Or that the facts don't 'matter'?


FD, is this you saying you were wrong?

If so, why do you keep saying this? Why don't you just stop being wrong?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #18 - Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm
 
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #19 - Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


FD, is this you saying you were right?

Can you explain your theory on blaming Arabs for the spread of disease in the Congo?

And finally, can you show your research for 19th century droughts in the Belgian Congo?

Cheers.
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #20 - Nov 21st, 2017 at 1:04pm
 
FD? You've gone.
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #21 - Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
Gandalf, it was one of your own pieces of evidence that explained that the Europeans were not deliberately killing people and were actually treating and curing diseases among the natives.


I stand by the claim that the Europeans caused massive suffering either directly or indirectly as a result of invasion and pillaging and enslavement. Like the article said. But please continue portraying this as nothing to see here but white knights "curing diseases among the natives" - its hilarious. Where did you get it from anyway? Perhaps you confused murder, enslavement and pillaging for rescuing and 'curing diseases'. Its an easy mistake to make I suppose. Or perhaps you meant they 'cured' them by killing them? No doubt there are many millions of eternally grateful tinted corpses who are no longer diseased. 

freediver wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
Is this you saying you were wrong? And if so, how are we supposed to figure out which of your posts 'matter', and which ones are lies?


You're right FD - I should have pointed out that the European's scale of slaughter during the colonial period was topped only by the apocalyptical levels of slaughter inflicted by the same Europeans in subsequent years - when they trully perfected industrial scale slaughter.

So thanks again for pointing out that no one in the history of mankind has got close to achieving the levels of rape and pillage related deaths as the Europeans. Was that the point you were so keen to highlight FD?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #22 - Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #23 - Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:19pm:
And finally, can you show your research for 19th century droughts in the Belgian Congo?

Cheers.


As far as I can tell, we're still running with 'famine' is a synonym for 'drought'. Unfortunately, FD won't talk about this any more. Shame.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #24 - Nov 22nd, 2017 at 3:09pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:37pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:19pm:
And finally, can you show your research for 19th century droughts in the Belgian Congo?

Cheers.


As far as I can tell, we're still running with 'famine' is a synonym for 'drought'. Unfortunately, FD won't talk about this any more. Shame.

No mention of all the Muslim raping, pillaging and colonialization?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #25 - Nov 22nd, 2017 at 5:43pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:23pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
Gandalf, it was one of your own pieces of evidence that explained that the Europeans were not deliberately killing people and were actually treating and curing diseases among the natives.


I stand by the claim that the Europeans caused massive suffering either directly or indirectly as a result of invasion and pillaging and enslavement. Like the article said. But please continue portraying this as nothing to see here but white knights "curing diseases among the natives" - its hilarious. Where did you get it from anyway? Perhaps you confused murder, enslavement and pillaging for rescuing and 'curing diseases'. Its an easy mistake to make I suppose. Or perhaps you meant they 'cured' them by killing them? No doubt there are many millions of eternally grateful tinted corpses who are no longer diseased. 

freediver wrote on Nov 20th, 2017 at 7:19pm:
Is this you saying you were wrong? And if so, how are we supposed to figure out which of your posts 'matter', and which ones are lies?


You're right FD - I should have pointed out that the European's scale of slaughter during the colonial period was topped only by the apocalyptical levels of slaughter inflicted by the same Europeans in subsequent years - when they trully perfected industrial scale slaughter.

So thanks again for pointing out that no one in the history of mankind has got close to achieving the levels of rape and pillage related deaths as the Europeans. Was that the point you were so keen to highlight FD?


Excuse me, G, is this you saying you were wrong?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #26 - Nov 22nd, 2017 at 5:48pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.



Well yes, but can't you make friends with the natives and trade with them in good faith after you've invaded, raped, pillaged and spread your disease?

FD calls this Freeeeedom. If you put in a puppet leader and have an election, FD calls this democracy.

Raping, pillaging, Freeeedom, democracy. You say potato and I say potahtoh. It's all a matter of perspective, no?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #27 - Nov 23rd, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.



Can you give an example of some nations that were invaded and the races you hold responsible? Are those races responsible for the spread of disease beyond the nations they invaded?

If the disease was already there when they invaded, does that mean they are not to blame?

If the Arabs made the contact between the old and the new world inevitable, do they bear any responsibility for the introduction of diseases?

Can any blame be attributed to geographic proximity of the disease source to the people it was passed on to?

Also, why does blame not hinge on whether the disease was deliberately introduced? Are you saying the Europeans who had nothing to do with the introduction of the disease are just as blame worthy as the Americans who deliberately gave smallpox to native Indians?

Why does the blame hinge on intentions that had nothing at all to do with disease? If the disease was introduced to the Americas be people trying to find a trade route to India, who do you blame?

Also, if there were many instances of a disease being passed on by people of different races with sinister intentions, how do you decide which race to blame? Is it always white people who get the blame?

Are you just making this up as you go along, or is this a Muslim thing you are getting from somewhere?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #28 - Nov 23rd, 2017 at 2:51pm
 
Quote:
Is it always white people who get the blame?


Yes yes yes a thousand time yes.

muzzie is good, whitey is bad.

Leftards and muslims keep telling us this.

How long does it take for islamophobes to learn?
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Re: European pillaging- we blame the weather and Islam
Reply #29 - Nov 23rd, 2017 at 3:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 23rd, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Can you give an example of some nations that were invaded and the races you hold responsible? Are those races responsible for the spread of disease beyond the nations they invaded?


Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.

Quote:
If the disease was already there when they invaded, does that mean they are not to blame?

If the Arabs made the contact between the old and the new world inevitable, do they bear any responsibility for the introduction of diseases?

Can any blame be attributed to geographic proximity of the disease source to the people it was passed on to?

Also, why does blame not hinge on whether the disease was deliberately introduced? Are you saying the Europeans who had nothing to do with the introduction of the disease are just as blame worthy as the Americans who deliberately gave smallpox to native Indians?

Why does the blame hinge on intentions that had nothing at all to do with disease? If the disease was introduced to the Americas be people trying to find a trade route to India, who do you blame?


FD your bizarre spineless apologies are about as morally equivalent as saying a man who infects a woman with HIV when he raped her - shouldn't be to blame for infecting her on the basis that he didn't know he had HIV himself. I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.

Quote:
Also, if there were many instances of a disease being passed on by people of different races with sinister intentions, how do you decide which race to blame? Is it always white people who get the blame?


Don't worry FD - I will hold absolutely anyone responsible for the diseases they spread while  invading, raping and pillaging defenseless people. Even muslims.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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