Australian Politics Forum - Returned Service People, Are They Sane?

____

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 33410
Australia
Gender: male

Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:21pm

As we know from the terrorism in Texas, the terrorist was a returned service person.

Exposure to war seems to push many over the edge. Look at Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Time to isolate these people on manus and nauru for six months to a year, so to check on their sanity and keep Australia safe from their potential terrorism.

http://people.com/crime/texas-church-mass-shooter-identified-devin-patrick-kelle...

Texas Church Mass Shooter Identified as 26-Year-Old Air Force Veteran: Reports

Should we put Australia first?
Discuss.

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131477
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #1 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:29pm

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

Time to isolate these people on manus and nauru for six months to a year, so to check on their sanity and keep Australia safe from their potential terrorism.

Not a bad idea.

Returned service personnel have an undeniable track record of committing crimes.

In the UK, for example, more than 2,500 former members of the armed forces went to prison last year.

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 37678
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #2 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 2:44pm

At first blush, that is a stupid suggestion...but on reflection...there ought to be a proper 'de brief' of blokes returning from War.

Six months sounds fine to allow for a proper transition (where appropriate support is available) from a place where you could be blown up at any second to one of relative safety.

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131477 Gender:	Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane? Reply #3 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 2:49pm In the UK, again, there are estimates that 1 in 10 prisoners are former soldiers.
Back to top	IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16400 Gender:	Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane? Reply #4 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 2:50pm greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:29pm: n the UK, for example, more than 2,500 former members of the armed forces went to prison last year. Out of how many?
Back to top	IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 131477
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #5 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 3:02pm

lee wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 2:50pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:29pm:

n the UK, for example, more than 2,500 former members of the armed forces went to prison last year.

Out of how many?

Total prison population is about 80,000, I think.

Some sources say returned soldiers make up 10% of the total prison population.

Back to top

IP Logged

Captain Caveman

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6204
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #6 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 3:08pm

So we expect you to honor our country and fight wars in our name but once your done you have to sit in detention till we see fit. Grin

Good luck with that.

How about proper treatment of returned service personnel such as a free house. A good pension. Free psychological treatment. Our servicemen and women are flown home, discharged and forgotten. What a joke. They should get all the lurks the polliticians get and the pollies should be forgotten.

Back to top

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28030
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #7 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 4:55pm

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

As we know from the terrorism in Texas, the terrorist was a returned service person.

Exposure to war seems to push many over the edge. Look at Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

Time to isolate these people on manus and nauru for six months to a year, so to check on their sanity and keep Australia safe from their potential terrorism.

http://people.com/crime/texas-church-mass-shooter-identified-devin-patrick-kelle...

Texas Church Mass Shooter Identified as 26-Year-Old Air Force Veteran: Reports

Should we put Australia first?
Discuss.

First suggestion I would make is that you should be isolated to Manus ... better now it's virtually closed and subject to local inspection with machetes.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28030
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #8 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 4:59pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:29pm:

____ wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 1:21pm:

Time to isolate these people on manus and nauru for six months to a year, so to check on their sanity and keep Australia safe from their potential terrorism.

Not a bad idea.

Returned service personnel have an undeniable track record of committing crimes.

In the UK, for example, more than 2,500 former members of the armed forces went to prison last year.

We don't do enough for our returned service personnel.....

Do you wonder why they commit crime?

It's a stupid idea. And stupid is as stupid does.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28030
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #9 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:01pm

Captain Caveman wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 3:08pm:

So we expect you to honor our country and fight wars in our name but once your done you have to sit in detention till we see fit. Grin

Good luck with that.

How about proper treatment of returned service personnel such as a free house. A good pension. Free psychological treatment. Our servicemen and women are flown home, discharged and forgotten. What a joke. They should get all the lurks the polliticians get and the pollies should be forgotten.

Spot on.

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16400 Gender:	Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane? Reply #10 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:13pm greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 3:02pm: Some sources say returned soldiers make up 10% of the total prison population. So Returned Serviceman are nine times less likely to offend than the general population.
Back to top	IP Logged

President Elect, The Mechanic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17501
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #11 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:18pm

Quote:

The man authorities have identified as the shooter in the massacre at a Texas church was given a bad conduct discharge from the Air Force three years ago after being court-martialed for assault, a military spokesperson confirmed Sunday.

Federal law prohibits a person who has been dishonorably discharged from buying a firearm. Whether Kelley's discharge would trigger the law was not immediately clear.

Devin P. Kelley, who served in logistics readiness at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico starting in 2010, was court-martialed in 2012 for two counts alleging assault on his spouse and assault on their child, Ann Stefanek, the chief of Media Operations for the Air Force, said in a statement.

Kelley was convicted and sentenced to 12 months in custody and given a bad conduct discharge, Stefanek said. He was discharged in 2014.

The 1968 Gun Control Act made it unlawful for a licensed firearms dealer to sell a weapon to a person with a dishonorable discharge or for such a person "to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce."

Officials have said they found multiple weapons in Kelley's vehicle when he died. They have not said how he obtained them.

a lot of people make the mistake that somehow Service Personal are somehow not the same as the rest of the civilian population..

there will be wife bashers
adulterers
murderers
rapists
thugs
dickheads

etc etc etc...

when other people do the same thing.. they are just a nut, crazy, mean, thug etc... but when someone in Service does it....

oh gee wizzz... whats wrong with returned service people.. blah blah blah...

say what?? Roll Eyes

Back to top

Q

The STORM has arrived
Every Dog Has Its Day...
Dark to Light.
Sheep no more.

IP Logged

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 131477 Gender:	Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane? Reply #12 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:20pm lee wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:13pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 3:02pm: Some sources say returned soldiers make up 10% of the total prison population. So Returned Serviceman are nine times less likely to offend than the general population. No.
Back to top	IP Logged

Gnads

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 28030
Gender: male

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #13 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:23pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:20pm:

lee wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:13pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 6^th, 2017 at 3:02pm:

Some sources say returned soldiers make up 10% of the total prison population.

So Returned Serviceman are nine times less likely to offend than the general population.

No.

Shut up!

Back to top

"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 39532

Re: Returned Service People, Are They Sane?
Reply #14 - Nov 6^th, 2017 at 5:30pm

This is just persecution for persecution's sake, I would suggested. I have long been involved with ex-service people over the years and the overwhelming majority are sane, normal people. A tiny minority suffer from PTSD, a smaller minority end up take it out on their families and society around them.

What has long been missing is a "period of adjustment" after a tour in a conflict zone ends. I have long believed that one of the reasons why returned service men from the world wars and Korea generally adjusted well to society was because it generally took them about six weeks to three months to get back to Australia after the end of their tour or conflict. Under military discipline these allowed them to adjust to "normal life".

With Vietnam, there came a "quick turn around" - kick them out as quickly as possible and get them back into civvie street for the conscripts. The nature of the conflict had changed - from one where you faced a readily identifiable enemy to where the enemy lurked in the shadows. The quick turn around was shown to have problems associated with it. The Australian Army long believed in the rotation of units, rather as the US Army did, individuals, between tours. This was to their advantage because esprit de corps kept the men together and the unit as a whole knew when it's time was up.

Since Vietnam, the day of the conscript is over and done with and today you have regular (and to a lesser extent Reserve) personnel, so individuals have the unit to rely upon. What is lacking is after they retire, when they are out in the civilian community, without the support the unit provides. What we should be doing is providing a "period of readjustment" and support after they are retired. There is no need to isolate personnel. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged