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Are religious people more moral? (Read 18977 times)
Raven
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Are religious people more moral?
Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:58am
 
A recent study led by psychologist Will Gervais, found widespread and extreme moral prejudice against atheists around the world. Across all continents, people assumed that those who committed immoral acts, even extreme ones such as serial murder, were more likely to be atheists.

Survey data show that Americans are less trusting of atheists than of any other social group. For most politicians, going to church is often the best way to garner votes, and coming out as an unbeliever could well be political suicide. After all, there are no open atheists in the U.S. Congress. The only known religiously unaffiliated representative describes herself as “none,” but still denies being an atheist.
So, where does such extreme prejudice come from? And what is the actual evidence on the relationship between religion and morality?

How does religion relate to morality?

It is true that the world’s major religions are concerned with moral behavior. Many, therefore, might assume that religious commitment is a sign of virtue, or even that morality cannot exist without religion.

Both of these assumptions, however, are problematic.

For one thing, the ethical ideals of one religion might seem immoral to members of another. For instance, in the 19th century, Mormons considered polygamy a moral imperative, while Catholics saw it as a mortal sin.

Moreover, religious ideals of moral behavior are often limited to group members and might even be accompanied by outright hatred against other groups. In 1543, for example, Martin Luther, one of the fathers of Protestantism, published a treatise titled “On the Jews and their Lies,” echoing anti-Semitic sentiments that have been common among various religious groups for centuries.

These examples also reveal that religious morality can and does change with the ebb and flow of the surrounding culture. In recent years, several Anglican churches have revised their moral views to allow contraception, the ordination of women and the blessing of same-sex unions.

Discrepancy between beliefs and behavior:

In any case, religiosity is only loosely related to theology. That is, the beliefs and behaviors of religious people are not always in accordance with official religious doctrines. Instead, popular religiosity tends to be much more practical and intuitive. This is what religious studies scholars call “theological incorrectness.”

Buddhism, for example, may officially be a religion without gods, but most Buddhists still treat Buddha as a deity. Similarly, the Catholic Church vehemently opposes birth control, but the vast majority of Catholics practice it anyway. In fact, theological incorrectness is the norm rather than the exception among believers.
For this reason, sociologist Mark Chaves called the idea that people behave in accordance with religious beliefs and commandments the “religious congruence fallacy.”

This discrepancy among beliefs, attitudes and behaviors is a much broader phenomenon. After all, communism is an egalitarian ideology, but communists do not behave any less selfishly.

Why do people distrust atheists?
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Jasin
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #1 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 12:31pm
 

Atheists (Anti-Religious, rather than 'Pro' anything else)
belong to the black-skivvy, café-latte 'Scientific' culture and that culture belongs to...

...Oceania, which can be found in the 'midst' of the New Worlds of South America, Sahul (Australia) & North America.

Oceania - a Region of endless ocean and sea and just a spattering of land in the form of islands and land bridges.

It's opposite - the Middle-East (where Religion came into being), is a empty expanse of desert land, with a spattering of watery oasis and rivers.
It sits in the 'midst' of the Old Worlds of Asia, Europe and Africa.


Now the cruel irony is - that the Middle-East 'goes with the grain' when it comes to the New Worlds.
While Oceania 'goes with the grain' when it comes to the Old Worlds.
Hence you see a growing 'schism' emerging between Media (Oceania) and Politics (Namerica) in ...the USA.

It goes on and gets complicated, but rest assured Raven.
All is going accordingly. Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Sprintcyclist
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 1:25pm
 
Are religious people more moral?

hhmm, would not necessarily think so.

Course, hard to define 'religious'.
hard to get a standard on morality.


ps, according to Jesus, we are not meant to be religious. We are meant to be Spiritual.
They are quite different meanings.
'You could religiously go to the local newsagent every Saturday morning.'
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issuevoter
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #3 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 2:04pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 1:25pm:
Are religious people more moral?

hhmm, would not necessarily think so.

Course, hard to define 'religious'.
hard to get a standard on morality.


ps, according to Jesus, we are not meant to be religious. We are meant to be Spiritual.
They are quite different meanings.
'You could religiously go to the local newsagent every Saturday morning.'


I am religious on Sundays. Gotta have that bloody-mary with brunch. There's moral in that somewhere.
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Yadda
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2017 at 3:48pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Nov 1st, 2017 at 1:25pm:

ps, according to Jesus, we are not meant to be religious. We are meant to be Spiritual.
They are quite different meanings.
'You could religiously go to the local newsagent every Saturday morning.'




According to Jesus, should we belong to, and go to, Church ?

Or, is it more important that we should seek God ?



The Problem of Evil
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1304541795/93#93
Quote:

......regards organised religion;

If you believe that the Book of Revelation, is the
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ,"
then in that book....

Jesus said...
"...thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

Revelation 2:6
Revelation 2:15

Nicolaitans???


What does that word, Nicolaitans, refer to ?

'Nicolaitan', refers to those who [Nico] 'rule over' or 'conquer', and [the laity] 'the people'.

Jesus in Revelation, and, in the Gospels, said that he hated those hypocrites, who use the authority of 'religion' [turning religion into a 'beastly', false, worldly 'spirituality'], so as to rule over men.

Almost every religion of man does this.

Some religions [more than others] going to extreme lengths, to exert their authority over their adherents/devotees.


Matthew 20:25
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

Popes???

'Papa'?



"....And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."
"...But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."
Matthew 23:1-13









Jesus came, as an agency of 'God', to call mankind to repentance.

Didn't he ?


Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began....to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.



What did Jesus advise ?

In how a man, ought, to try to please God, his creator ?


Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Matthew 12:47
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48  But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49  And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.



So, what is it God's will ?


I am responsible for my own choices.

That is what God's word teaches me.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Amadd
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #5 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 3:07am
 
This has been an observation of mine over my lifetime.

As a child, I was always under the impression that because a person is religious, they must be good and they must do good things.

Of course that is not true, and in fact, it is more likely that these people seek guidance from a so-called
"higher source" because they lack an innate moral compass.
This may be due to upbringing, innate personalities, or a combination of both.

It's admirable to want to better yourself, however, in most cases, a leopard cannot change it's spots and the nature of one's self sticks.

I don't believe a pinch of poo of what a religious person tells me because I think that they are being dishonest with themselves.
If they lie to themselves, then they will have no problem lying to me.






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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #6 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 8:31am
 
Religion is the by-product of WRITING.
Once writing was invented by the Sumerians upon the Temple of Ur in admiration and inspiration from Sin (the Moon, Luna, etc).
It was mostly used for logistical reasons like record keeping of crops, harvests, seasons, etc.

Then a family of people called 'JEWS' - decided to keep a record of their own Family Tree and hence 'their' Humanity started with their Ancestry from Adam & Eve.
Thus they, via the more permanency and longer lasting aspect of 'Writing' (in stone) - became IMMORTAL.
The obvious 'empowerment' over others - regarding the haves and the have nots, substantiated history in a personal level.

In time, other aspects of 'Human' nature were set in stone (Writing) and it transcended down through the generations - but even it 'changed' with and by each generation.
Morals became a part of the new elaboration of what the Jews created.

But in truth, Morals can be associated in any industry.

I place Religion in my life as if I was accepting the Middle-East as also a part of this world that I live in and am a part of. To deny Religion - or 'Writing', is to deny the Middle-East does not exist on this planet.
Obviously, my priority is being 'Australian' more than otherwise.

I tend to think that Northern Hemisphere Religion though - is more 'fictional, relationship orientated, soapy, etc'.
The transition of Religion into North America also shows via the emergence of their version (Mormonism) - the same traits.

Australia, here in the Southern Hemisphere region of Sahul.
Well, we have 2/3rd's more paperwork than any other nation. So our 'Religion' is more 'Non-Fiction', Factual, Logistical, etc and I'm pretty sure it will be the same for the other 3 Southern Hemisphere regions too, in time.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #7 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 9:18am
 
Jasin wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 8:31am:
Religion is the by-product of WRITING.
Once writing was invented by the Sumerians upon the Temple of Ur in admiration and inspiration from Sin (the Moon, Luna, etc).
It was mostly used for logistical reasons like record keeping of crops, harvests, seasons, etc.

Then a family of people called 'JEWS' - decided to keep a record of their own Family Tree and hence 'their' Humanity started with their Ancestry from Adam & Eve.
Thus they, via the more permanency and longer lasting aspect of 'Writing' (in stone) - became IMMORTAL.
The obvious 'empowerment' over others - regarding the haves and the have nots, substantiated history in a personal level.

In time, other aspects of 'Human' nature were set in stone (Writing) and it transcended down through the generations - but even it 'changed' with and by each generation.
Morals became a part of the new elaboration of what the Jews created.

But in truth, Morals can be associated in any industry.

I place Religion in my life as if I was accepting the Middle-East as also a part of this world that I live in and am a part of. To deny Religion - or 'Writing', is to deny the Middle-East does not exist on this planet.
Obviously, my priority is being 'Australian' more than otherwise.

I tend to think that Northern Hemisphere Religion though - is more 'fictional, relationship orientated, soapy, etc'.
The transition of Religion into North America also shows via the emergence of their version (Mormonism) - the same traits.

Australia, here in the Southern Hemisphere region of Sahul.
Well, we have 2/3rd's more paperwork than any other nation. So our 'Religion' is more 'Non-Fiction', Factual, Logistical, etc and I'm pretty sure it will be the same for the other 3 Southern Hemisphere regions too, in time.



I cannot make your perspective fit into an overall view. For a start, you imply that no tribes before the Sumarians had a religion. Seems unlikely.

And the idea that there were no morals before the Jews is equally hard to accept.

Your connection between morals and industry escapes me.

You verify your original statement by suggesting Europeans brought religion to America. What about native American religion?

A big problem is that you do not lay out what you think religion is. What you mean by denying religion is also vague. I may or may not be religious but I do not deny it exists.
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Jasin
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #8 - Nov 2nd, 2017 at 9:05pm
 
Hi Issuevoter.

You gotta understand that Religion is not Mythology is not Religion.

Religion is a belief system via Writing (Books ...Holy Books).

Mythology, be it Namerican Indian, Viking, Pre-Sumerian, etc - is exactly that ...a mythology.

Once writing was created, Religion was soon born and the first Religion was Monotheistic.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #9 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
In general, religious people are less moral.
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #10 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 10:44pm
 
Look at Longweekend -
he's the nastiest person on Ozpolitic yet he calls himself a Christian - go figure?
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #11 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 6:35am
 
Jasin wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 9:05pm:
Hi Issuevoter.

You gotta understand that Religion is not Mythology is not Religion.

Religion is a belief system via Writing (Books ...Holy Books).

Mythology, be it Namerican Indian, Viking, Pre-Sumerian, etc - is exactly that ...a mythology.

Once writing was created, Religion was soon born and the first Religion was Monotheistic.


I don't have to understand anything of the sort. In the days before they learned to write, the Zogo men of Papua were the priests of various religions. And the same is true of many other primitive societies. As for your claim that the first religion was monotheistic, I will not even dignify that with a comment.
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #12 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 8:01am
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2017 at 10:44pm:
Look at Longweekend -
he's the nastiest person on Ozpolitic yet he calls himself a Christian - go figure?



Longweekend is possessed by demons:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1507152247/16#16
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #13 - Nov 6th, 2017 at 8:22am
 



Any individual can be a moral person.

Any individual can be an immoral person.

What religion we were born into [or not] doesn't necessarily have any bearing upon this, imo.





Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35  But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Jeremiah 9:24
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.


Psalms 11:5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.


1 Samuel 16:6
And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD'S anointed is before him.
7  But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Are religious people more moral?
Reply #14 - Nov 7th, 2017 at 12:37pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2017 at 10:44pm:
Look at Longweekend -
he's the nastiest person on Ozpolitic yet he calls himself a Christian - go figure?


I disagree. Sprintcyclist and Yadda are the nastiest Christians on this forum having a bling hatred of anybody not from their tribe. They are proof that religion doesn't automatically lead to morality.

I would argue that non religious people are more moral because their morality comes from within. They don't rely on dubious rules laid out in a millennia old book.
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