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Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy (Read 41687 times)
Frank
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #45 - Oct 22nd, 2017 at 12:05pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 5:34pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 5:28pm:
Frank wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 3:43pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Where is the international pressure? Ditto for the world's silence on the Saudi destruction of Yemen. Why isn't Rex Tillerson or Julie Bishop on their moral high horse over this? The cold hard truth is no one wants to apply any serious pressure on Pakistan because the US so desperately needs it to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. These atrocities will continue so long as the world remains silent, and complicit in them.




Yeah, good one. Just remind us - why are the Muslims killing other Muslims in Yemen?
Nuffin to do wiv Shia dogs versus Sunni dogs, does it?  It's about life, liberty and the the pursuit of happiness, Inshallah, no?


It's politically incorrect for our politicians to call it out when Muslims do this sort of thing. They would be branded Islamophobes and accused by the apologists of spreading hate. Remember, Brian says he has no right or ability to criticise other nations or religions.


That's true, FD. It's considered politically incorrect in Canberra to disagree with any aspect of US foreign policy. Julie Bishop is at pains to agree with everything Donald Trump says, you can see. She looks physically in pain when she's asked about Trump's latest tweets.

Do you uphold the use of porkies in your campaign against the Yemenis?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Oh, Trump is making the Saudies kill the Shia dogs of Yemen. And Julie Bishop agrees with him.

Another geopolitical insight from Kameel that Paki cameleer.

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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #46 - Oct 22nd, 2017 at 3:57pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 22nd, 2017 at 12:05pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 5:34pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 5:28pm:
Frank wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 3:43pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Where is the international pressure? Ditto for the world's silence on the Saudi destruction of Yemen. Why isn't Rex Tillerson or Julie Bishop on their moral high horse over this? The cold hard truth is no one wants to apply any serious pressure on Pakistan because the US so desperately needs it to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. These atrocities will continue so long as the world remains silent, and complicit in them.




Yeah, good one. Just remind us - why are the Muslims killing other Muslims in Yemen?
Nuffin to do wiv Shia dogs versus Sunni dogs, does it?  It's about life, liberty and the the pursuit of happiness, Inshallah, no?


It's politically incorrect for our politicians to call it out when Muslims do this sort of thing. They would be branded Islamophobes and accused by the apologists of spreading hate. Remember, Brian says he has no right or ability to criticise other nations or religions.


That's true, FD. It's considered politically incorrect in Canberra to disagree with any aspect of US foreign policy. Julie Bishop is at pains to agree with everything Donald Trump says, you can see. She looks physically in pain when she's asked about Trump's latest tweets.

Do you uphold the use of porkies in your campaign against the Yemenis?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Oh, Trump is making the Saudies kill the Shia dogs of Yemen. And Julie Bishop agrees with him.

Another geopolitical insight from Kameel that Paki cameleer.



Do you uphold the use of lies, dear boy?

I'm a little curious about you too, you know.
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #47 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 12:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:46am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:06am:
freediver wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Where is the international pressure? Ditto for the world's silence on the Saudi destruction of Yemen. Why isn't Rex Tillerson or Julie Bishop on their moral high horse over this? The cold hard truth is no one wants to apply any serious pressure on Pakistan because the US so desperately needs it to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. These atrocities will continue so long as the world remains silent, and complicit in them.


Do you think we should engage in a bit more cultural imperialism Gandalf?


No FD.

The international community calls out human rights abuses around the world all the time. This is not cultural imperialism by the way, its standing up for human rights. t doesn't do this in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia for reasons we are all aware of. We can't directly stop a nation from abusing its people, but we can criticise it. And thats what we should be doing.


Sure we can stop them. We have been interfering in the Muslim world for centuries to make them stop. It has worked fairly well for slavery. Now we are giving them the gift of democracy.


Aww isn't that sweet? FD actually believes the wars with the Islamic world have been to stop slavery.

So what do you have in mind FD - a full scale invasion of Pakistan? Arming a rebel faction to overthrow the democratically elected government? I mean these sorts of campaigns have worked so swimmingly in the recent past haven't they?
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #48 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 12:53pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 3:43pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Where is the international pressure? Ditto for the world's silence on the Saudi destruction of Yemen. Why isn't Rex Tillerson or Julie Bishop on their moral high horse over this? The cold hard truth is no one wants to apply any serious pressure on Pakistan because the US so desperately needs it to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. These atrocities will continue so long as the world remains silent, and complicit in them.




Yeah, good one. Just remind us - why are the Muslims killing other Muslims in Yemen?
Nuffin to do wiv Shia dogs versus Sunni dogs, does it?  It's about life, liberty and the the pursuit of happiness, Inshallah, no?


No Frank, not sure where you got that idea. The Saudis are trying to destroy what they see as the threat of an Iranian proxy (Huthis) in Yemen. With material and (at least until very recently) direct logistical support from the US.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #49 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 12:50pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:46am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:06am:
freediver wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Where is the international pressure? Ditto for the world's silence on the Saudi destruction of Yemen. Why isn't Rex Tillerson or Julie Bishop on their moral high horse over this? The cold hard truth is no one wants to apply any serious pressure on Pakistan because the US so desperately needs it to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. These atrocities will continue so long as the world remains silent, and complicit in them.


Do you think we should engage in a bit more cultural imperialism Gandalf?


No FD.

The international community calls out human rights abuses around the world all the time. This is not cultural imperialism by the way, its standing up for human rights. t doesn't do this in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia for reasons we are all aware of. We can't directly stop a nation from abusing its people, but we can criticise it. And thats what we should be doing.


Sure we can stop them. We have been interfering in the Muslim world for centuries to make them stop. It has worked fairly well for slavery. Now we are giving them the gift of democracy.


Aww isn't that sweet? FD actually believes the wars with the Islamic world have been to stop slavery.

So what do you have in mind FD - a full scale invasion of Pakistan? Arming a rebel faction to overthrow the democratically elected government? I mean these sorts of campaigns have worked so swimmingly in the recent past haven't they?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

The Barbary Wars were a series of conflicts that culminated in two wars fought at different times over the same reasons between the United States, Sweden, and the Barbary states (the de jure possessions of the Ottoman Empire, but de facto independent, Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli) of North Africa in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The Swedes had been at war with the Tripolitans since 1800; they were eventually joined by the Americans.[2] At issue was the Barbary pirates' demand for tribute from American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean Sea. If ships of a given country failed to pay, pirates would attack the ship and take their goods, and often enslave crew members or hold them for ransom.

After the Barbary wars, western powers continued to interfere in Muslim countries to first bring about an end to the international slave trade, then local slave trades, and finally to make slavery illegal. Sex slavery is a big reason why everyone is ganging up on ISIS.

As for what I would suggest, I think we should start with killing off ISIS and firmly establishing democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #50 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 2:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 12:50pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:46am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:06am:
freediver wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Where is the international pressure? Ditto for the world's silence on the Saudi destruction of Yemen. Why isn't Rex Tillerson or Julie Bishop on their moral high horse over this? The cold hard truth is no one wants to apply any serious pressure on Pakistan because the US so desperately needs it to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. These atrocities will continue so long as the world remains silent, and complicit in them.


Do you think we should engage in a bit more cultural imperialism Gandalf?


No FD.

The international community calls out human rights abuses around the world all the time. This is not cultural imperialism by the way, its standing up for human rights. t doesn't do this in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia for reasons we are all aware of. We can't directly stop a nation from abusing its people, but we can criticise it. And thats what we should be doing.


Sure we can stop them. We have been interfering in the Muslim world for centuries to make them stop. It has worked fairly well for slavery. Now we are giving them the gift of democracy.


Aww isn't that sweet? FD actually believes the wars with the Islamic world have been to stop slavery.?


Oh, of course. Freeeeedom, innit.

But I'm curious. Why haven't we invaded all those African countries who use child soldiers? Why haven't we freed the children and provided them with refuge?

Sorry, I remember now. They're tinted.
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #51 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 2:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
As for what I would suggest, I think we should start with killing off ISIS and firmly establishing democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Ha!
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #52 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 3:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

The Barbary Wars were a series of conflicts that culminated in two wars fought at different times over the same reasons between the United States, Sweden, and the Barbary states (the de jure possessions of the Ottoman Empire, but de facto independent, Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli) of North Africa in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The Swedes had been at war with the Tripolitans since 1800; they were eventually joined by the Americans.[2] At issue was the Barbary pirates' demand for tribute from American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean Sea. If ships of a given country failed to pay, pirates would attack the ship and take their goods, and often enslave crew members or hold them for ransom.

After the Barbary wars, western powers continued to interfere in Muslim countries to first bring about an end to the international slave trade, then local slave trades, and finally to make slavery illegal. Sex slavery is a big reason why everyone is ganging up on ISIS.



It wasn't one way traffic FD:

Quote:
European sources often mention Christian captives on the Barbary Coast of North Africa - Cervantes was a slave in Algiers between 1575 and 1580, for instance - but much less is known about Muslims captured on the other side. And yet, the business of kidnapping, ransoming, trading, and owning slaves of a different religion was not only a North African or Ottoman affair. It followed the Christian-Muslim frontier, from Morocco to the Black Sea, and it was fundamentally reciprocal. The Maltese corsairs were just as terrifying as their Tunisian or Algerian counterparts, and Christian Cossacks rivaled Muslim Tatars in Eastern Europe. While captured Christians were sold on the slave markets of Caffa, Istanbul, Tunis, and Algiers, the Muslims snatched by Christian raiders ended up as rowers on the galleys of the pope, builders of imperial palaces in Vienna, or domestic slaves in Venice and Malta.

Numbers
Systematic research on the demography and treatment of Muslim slaves in early modern Europe still remains to be done. We have enough information, however, to draw some preliminary conclusions about their presence in the Mediterranean area, based on the research done by Michel Fontenay, Salvatore Bono, Anne Brogini, Wolfgang Kaiser, and Robert C. Davis. First, their number was higher than previously thought: for instance, Salvatore Bono estimates that there were about twenty thousand Muslim slaves around 1600 in Naples alone, and four to five hundred thousand between 1500 and 1800 on the Italian peninsula. If we extrapolate these numbers to all of southern Europe, we easily get above one million and possibly more for the entire early modern period—as is also the case with the Christian slaves on the Barbary Coast, who amounted to at least one million in a conservative estimate. These numbers are certainly lower than those pertaining to transatlantic slavery, but they are by no means negligible.


http://www.hum.leiden.edu/history/slavery-studies/news/muslim-slaves.html
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #53 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 3:41pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

The Barbary Wars were a series of conflicts that culminated in two wars fought at different times over the same reasons between the United States, Sweden, and the Barbary states (the de jure possessions of the Ottoman Empire, but de facto independent, Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli) of North Africa in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The Swedes had been at war with the Tripolitans since 1800; they were eventually joined by the Americans.[2] At issue was the Barbary pirates' demand for tribute from American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean Sea. If ships of a given country failed to pay, pirates would attack the ship and take their goods, and often enslave crew members or hold them for ransom.

After the Barbary wars, western powers continued to interfere in Muslim countries to first bring about an end to the international slave trade, then local slave trades, and finally to make slavery illegal. Sex slavery is a big reason why everyone is ganging up on ISIS.



It wasn't one way traffic FD:

Quote:
European sources often mention Christian captives on the Barbary Coast of North Africa - Cervantes was a slave in Algiers between 1575 and 1580, for instance - but much less is known about Muslims captured on the other side. And yet, the business of kidnapping, ransoming, trading, and owning slaves of a different religion was not only a North African or Ottoman affair. It followed the Christian-Muslim frontier, from Morocco to the Black Sea, and it was fundamentally reciprocal. The Maltese corsairs were just as terrifying as their Tunisian or Algerian counterparts, and Christian Cossacks rivaled Muslim Tatars in Eastern Europe. While captured Christians were sold on the slave markets of Caffa, Istanbul, Tunis, and Algiers, the Muslims snatched by Christian raiders ended up as rowers on the galleys of the pope, builders of imperial palaces in Vienna, or domestic slaves in Venice and Malta.

Numbers
Systematic research on the demography and treatment of Muslim slaves in early modern Europe still remains to be done. We have enough information, however, to draw some preliminary conclusions about their presence in the Mediterranean area, based on the research done by Michel Fontenay, Salvatore Bono, Anne Brogini, Wolfgang Kaiser, and Robert C. Davis. First, their number was higher than previously thought: for instance, Salvatore Bono estimates that there were about twenty thousand Muslim slaves around 1600 in Naples alone, and four to five hundred thousand between 1500 and 1800 on the Italian peninsula. If we extrapolate these numbers to all of southern Europe, we easily get above one million and possibly more for the entire early modern period—as is also the case with the Christian slaves on the Barbary Coast, who amounted to at least one million in a conservative estimate. These numbers are certainly lower than those pertaining to transatlantic slavery, but they are by no means negligible.


http://www.hum.leiden.edu/history/slavery-studies/news/muslim-slaves.html


That's ancient history, G. FD's talking about the Barbary Coast today.
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #54 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 5:52pm
 
I wonder if FD understands the irony of citing a supposed war against slavery - prosecuted by a nation that at the time had a thriving slave industry, led by a slave-owning president
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #55 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 7:11pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 3:41pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

The Barbary Wars were a series of conflicts that culminated in two wars fought at different times over the same reasons between the United States, Sweden, and the Barbary states (the de jure possessions of the Ottoman Empire, but de facto independent, Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli) of North Africa in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The Swedes had been at war with the Tripolitans since 1800; they were eventually joined by the Americans.[2] At issue was the Barbary pirates' demand for tribute from American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean Sea. If ships of a given country failed to pay, pirates would attack the ship and take their goods, and often enslave crew members or hold them for ransom.

After the Barbary wars, western powers continued to interfere in Muslim countries to first bring about an end to the international slave trade, then local slave trades, and finally to make slavery illegal. Sex slavery is a big reason why everyone is ganging up on ISIS.



It wasn't one way traffic FD:

Quote:
European sources often mention Christian captives on the Barbary Coast of North Africa - Cervantes was a slave in Algiers between 1575 and 1580, for instance - but much less is known about Muslims captured on the other side. And yet, the business of kidnapping, ransoming, trading, and owning slaves of a different religion was not only a North African or Ottoman affair. It followed the Christian-Muslim frontier, from Morocco to the Black Sea, and it was fundamentally reciprocal. The Maltese corsairs were just as terrifying as their Tunisian or Algerian counterparts, and Christian Cossacks rivaled Muslim Tatars in Eastern Europe. While captured Christians were sold on the slave markets of Caffa, Istanbul, Tunis, and Algiers, the Muslims snatched by Christian raiders ended up as rowers on the galleys of the pope, builders of imperial palaces in Vienna, or domestic slaves in Venice and Malta.

Numbers
Systematic research on the demography and treatment of Muslim slaves in early modern Europe still remains to be done. We have enough information, however, to draw some preliminary conclusions about their presence in the Mediterranean area, based on the research done by Michel Fontenay, Salvatore Bono, Anne Brogini, Wolfgang Kaiser, and Robert C. Davis. First, their number was higher than previously thought: for instance, Salvatore Bono estimates that there were about twenty thousand Muslim slaves around 1600 in Naples alone, and four to five hundred thousand between 1500 and 1800 on the Italian peninsula. If we extrapolate these numbers to all of southern Europe, we easily get above one million and possibly more for the entire early modern period—as is also the case with the Christian slaves on the Barbary Coast, who amounted to at least one million in a conservative estimate. These numbers are certainly lower than those pertaining to transatlantic slavery, but they are by no means negligible.


http://www.hum.leiden.edu/history/slavery-studies/news/muslim-slaves.html


Way to shift the goal posts Gandalf. Are you saying you now agree with me, but offer an et tu as some kind of argument?
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #56 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 7:51pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 12:53pm:
Frank wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 3:43pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Where is the international pressure? Ditto for the world's silence on the Saudi destruction of Yemen. Why isn't Rex Tillerson or Julie Bishop on their moral high horse over this? The cold hard truth is no one wants to apply any serious pressure on Pakistan because the US so desperately needs it to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. These atrocities will continue so long as the world remains silent, and complicit in them.




Yeah, good one. Just remind us - why are the Muslims killing other Muslims in Yemen?
Nuffin to do wiv Shia dogs versus Sunni dogs, does it?  It's about life, liberty and the the pursuit of happiness, Inshallah, no?


No Frank, not sure where you got that idea. The Saudis are trying to destroy what they see as the threat of an Iranian proxy (Huthis) in Yemen. With material and (at least until very recently) direct logistical support from the US.

Shia dogs, then.
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #57 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 10:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 7:11pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 3:41pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

The Barbary Wars were a series of conflicts that culminated in two wars fought at different times over the same reasons between the United States, Sweden, and the Barbary states (the de jure possessions of the Ottoman Empire, but de facto independent, Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli) of North Africa in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The Swedes had been at war with the Tripolitans since 1800; they were eventually joined by the Americans.[2] At issue was the Barbary pirates' demand for tribute from American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean Sea. If ships of a given country failed to pay, pirates would attack the ship and take their goods, and often enslave crew members or hold them for ransom.

After the Barbary wars, western powers continued to interfere in Muslim countries to first bring about an end to the international slave trade, then local slave trades, and finally to make slavery illegal. Sex slavery is a big reason why everyone is ganging up on ISIS.



It wasn't one way traffic FD:

Quote:
European sources often mention Christian captives on the Barbary Coast of North Africa - Cervantes was a slave in Algiers between 1575 and 1580, for instance - but much less is known about Muslims captured on the other side. And yet, the business of kidnapping, ransoming, trading, and owning slaves of a different religion was not only a North African or Ottoman affair. It followed the Christian-Muslim frontier, from Morocco to the Black Sea, and it was fundamentally reciprocal. The Maltese corsairs were just as terrifying as their Tunisian or Algerian counterparts, and Christian Cossacks rivaled Muslim Tatars in Eastern Europe. While captured Christians were sold on the slave markets of Caffa, Istanbul, Tunis, and Algiers, the Muslims snatched by Christian raiders ended up as rowers on the galleys of the pope, builders of imperial palaces in Vienna, or domestic slaves in Venice and Malta.

Numbers
Systematic research on the demography and treatment of Muslim slaves in early modern Europe still remains to be done. We have enough information, however, to draw some preliminary conclusions about their presence in the Mediterranean area, based on the research done by Michel Fontenay, Salvatore Bono, Anne Brogini, Wolfgang Kaiser, and Robert C. Davis. First, their number was higher than previously thought: for instance, Salvatore Bono estimates that there were about twenty thousand Muslim slaves around 1600 in Naples alone, and four to five hundred thousand between 1500 and 1800 on the Italian peninsula. If we extrapolate these numbers to all of southern Europe, we easily get above one million and possibly more for the entire early modern period—as is also the case with the Christian slaves on the Barbary Coast, who amounted to at least one million in a conservative estimate. These numbers are certainly lower than those pertaining to transatlantic slavery, but they are by no means negligible.


http://www.hum.leiden.edu/history/slavery-studies/news/muslim-slaves.html


Way to shift the goal posts Gandalf. Are you saying you now agree with me, but offer an et tu as some kind of argument?


Goalposts!
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #58 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 8:41am
 
freediver wrote on Oct 23rd, 2017 at 7:11pm:
Way to shift the goal posts Gandalf. Are you saying you now agree with me, but offer an et tu as some kind of argument?


Yes it is an 'et tu' argument - but not the way you think.

Your kindergarten logic that the west made war on the muslim world to stop slavery is flawed on two counts: 1. this supposedly anti-slave west was itself enjoying a thriving slave industry of its own at the time of the war you cite and 2. if the war was in response to the muslims taking western slaves, there is no reason why the same logic can't apply in reverse - ie why not say the muslims were waging war against the west to stop the enslavement of muslims? Its obviously a dumb argument to make, but no more so than yours.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Ahmadis sentenced to death for blasphemy
Reply #59 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 12:33pm
 
Quote:
Yes it is an 'et tu' argument - but not the way you think.


Looks like the standard irrational et tu to me Gandalf.

Quote:
this supposedly anti-slave west was itself enjoying a thriving slave industry of its own at the time of the war you cite


Bans on slavery in the west began prior to the Barbary wars. The anti-slavery movement had been active for a very long time.

In any case, why would you expect the west to permit Muslims to wage war on them in a quest for slaves until slavery had been entirely eradicated in the west? Is this some idiotic Islamic notion of fairness? Or are you just upset that the west won and brought an end to institutionalised sex slavery, thus depriving Muslims of the primary historical mechanism for spreading Islam?

Quote:
if the war was in response to the muslims taking western slaves, there is no reason why the same logic can't apply in reverse - ie why not say the muslims were waging war against the west to stop the enslavement of muslims?


Because they were not. Though I am not surprised that a Muslim would simply discard the facts when they are inconvenient. They were following Muhammad's example of stealing everything they could, killing anyone who stood in their way, and catching slaves whenever they were in a position to do so.

Western nations killed a lot of Muslims to bring the slave trade to an end. They destroyed the Barbary slave trading ports. They followed this up with more of that "foreign interference" Muslims constantly whine about to end local slave trade and eventually free slaves in the Muslim world.

Contrary to your Islam-inspired BS spin, the timing of this is entirely consistent with the ending of slavery in the west. Meanwhile, Australian Muslims today are still travelling across the world to die for ISIS and participate in the newly resurrected Islamic trade in sex slaves. They do this in the name of Islam, not because it is all George Bush's fault. The west is still leading Muslim nations by the nose into the 19th century.
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