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The domestic violence situation (Read 10573 times)
TheFunPolice
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #15 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:00pm
 
mothra wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:28pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
It's not me who argues about reciprocal violence in relationships - it's any number of studies.....

Anyone in a relationship knows that violence is always two ways - pretty much the same as the issues in relationships are... funny how that works.... two consenting adults (by allegation anyway).... tends to always be two way.  Cool

For those women who DO move from one abusive relationship to another..... I think Karnal has a point.  If there is any victim blaming' it is the victim doing it to herself... the reasons are countless but often to do with not having a firm grounding when young...

As a mental health professional (snuckles) you must have heard of the victim/oppressor/ rescuer cycle... some women and men do it all their lives.....



I got as far as "violence is always two way" then gave up.

No point.

I might not go as far to say that it's always two ways,... but the fact that some women tend to like bad-boys is not to be dimsissed.

Of course this is a very difficult subject to talk about,... as all difficult subjects are: but not all men are pigs.

Evil exists and some women sleep with it. Some men certainly are pigs just like some women.

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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #16 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:05pm
 
mothra wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:22pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:02am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 7:19am:
Maybe they could just try not arguing at home.... there are more men homeless than women, every time, and the current handling of 'domestic violence' is a disgrace in many ways, and is itself the root cause of much violence.

Women get massive priority in housing when homeless, and the figures are inflated by including children as if they have nothing to do with their father(s).  Not only that but claiming domestic violence is a convenient way of getting bumped up the list etc, and the desire of a woman to go her own way without thought or consideration for others is not 'domestic violence'.

The reasons for women and children living in cars etc should be FULLY explored... most of it is called poverty and hopelessness... most violence is reciprocal and often based on despair and abuse of substances etc .... fix those and you are a long way ahead of the game.

You will never resolve the issues of family violence while ever you adhere to the paradigm of 'women victims - men victimisers' and listen to the strident feminist propaganda about it all.


Good point, Bogie, and I agree. There is a chronic shortage of women's crisis services.

In my experience though, you create a homeless crisis service and it gets filled. You create another, and that gets filled up too.

Women leave one violent relationship, and within a year, they're in another. The cycle continues, the children suffer.

As Tony Abbott said when he opposed Rudd's homeless funding, "the poor will always be with us" (Matthew 26:11). While this was roundly condemned, there's a lot of truth to it.



I can't agree with that. By suggesting that women go from one abusive relationship to another you are, aside from overlooking the severity of the problem across socio-economic and cultural influences, is a little too close to victim blaming for my comfort.

You are implying that there is a pathology in these (mostly) women that not only enables abuse but could be argued (by someone like Grappler) that violence is somehow reciprocal. Perhaps even hints at an underclass in which family violence is almost to be expected? Certainly suggests that a woman foolish enough to be abused will do so for perpetuity.

Your argument could, conversely, be used to suggest that men are inherantly violent.

I believe doing any of the above misses the mark dramatically.

The facts are that family violence can and does happen to anyone. There is no way to tell who or who isn't a perpetrator at face value. Many people leave family violence situations and unravel the hows and the whys and come out stronger, wiser and empowered.

Look at war: men came home and had a kid,... went back to war and then came home and had another kid... then went back to war and came home messed up.

In this case it's not her fault.

Look at women that want to sleep with bad boys... how can anyone in the family deal with that when the sHITE HITS THE FAN?

You don't know how good men feel about this issue because you're a ballcutter Wink

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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #17 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:47pm
 
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1508359045/4#4 date=1508367844]Unfortunately, cods, the concept of 'addressing violence in society', begun in 1992, has not progressed beyond what was then labeled 'the first step' - which was cutting down on man v woman violence.

Due to the hysterics and hystrionics of the feminist lobbies, with their endless 'upgrading' of what actually constitutes 'violence' (but only against women) in this context, this 'program' has never moved one step forward from that, and has instead become mired in the kind of endless slogging that was The Western Front in WW I - with increasing casualties on all sides and no end in sight.

You will recall that at the time, I said that Rose Batty had wanted to address FAMILY violence as a whole, but was forced to regurgitate the approved line - that men are the culprits 100% of the time.  Her special case was clearly special - her estranged was a certified nutter, and his actions bear zero resemblance to the normal daily fare that makes up what is popularly called 'domestic violence' - by those without the capacity to think clearly.

Meanwhile men are thrown out of their homes, robbed of their families and their accumulated wealth, and often assaulted, deprived of rights and personal liberties, and are, as a result, becoming more and more second class citizens in the nation they built.  Never a more clear picture of what WILL eventually bring about revolt... and but one of the issues that are disturbing and distressing many Australians and driving them to as near a rebellion as they can get - and all because we have fools with power trying to impose the will of their preferred lobby groups... in this case the women's groups.

So, no - it is not a matter of my turning it into just women v men - I am more than aware of all the other issues in FAMILY violence, and have laid out for you all before why the current approach is a failure.[/quote]


you do understand though its PEOPLE that make things "fail"  not the system..

if everyone thought the same   there would be no ozpol forums would there??

we would all wear the same things the same colour and drive the same car.....


everyone of us has a good and dark side.. yes even me  hard to believe I know.. but I prefer to encourage the good rather than the ugly....when I am shown the ugly side of someone I tell them how disappointed I am not for me  for them...their behavior  shows them up I feel....

now this starts at a young age...when kids are farmed out to childcare centers more or less from the day they are born...they are not taught about behavior   when a child ,plays up at childcare they tell the parent to find another centre as they find this child too difficult to deal with... how sad is that?>...dump them on someone else in the hope they get fixed...in the mean time we have a huge issue with kids falling through the cracks who go on to be adults...who never fit in but they also produce more kids to fall through the ever present gaps....a vicious circle..

but it isnt the system   that fails its the adults....


I dont think we put enough emphasis on being NICE  to be honest....lets face it grap  the things that make the news.. youtube   are mostly horrible things...kids fighting even the girls...damaging other people property  ...thats all cool apparently...we have some smashing things done by very young people and bless their hearts they get awards for these things.. but they hardly get a mention ....we have many young kids who are carers  for their sick parents.. do we read about them... barely?...look at our threads...the gross ones get the most hits...

DV  is also a back burner topic now...its all too ho hum  ..

it needs people to change grap...and to change we need to listen.. most people that are the main cause of DV  are selfish all about me types....

a lot of mistakes have been made  but they are being fixed....but at the end of the day its up to us...
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #18 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:52pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:00pm:
mothra wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:28pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
It's not me who argues about reciprocal violence in relationships - it's any number of studies.....

Anyone in a relationship knows that violence is always two ways - pretty much the same as the issues in relationships are... funny how that works.... two consenting adults (by allegation anyway).... tends to always be two way.  Cool

For those women who DO move from one abusive relationship to another..... I think Karnal has a point.  If there is any victim blaming' it is the victim doing it to herself... the reasons are countless but often to do with not having a firm grounding when young...

As a mental health professional (snuckles) you must have heard of the victim/oppressor/ rescuer cycle... some women and men do it all their lives.....



I got as far as "violence is always two way" then gave up.

No point.

I might not go as far to say that it's always two ways,... but the fact that some women tend to like bad-boys is not to be dimsissed.

Of course this is a very difficult subject to talk about,... as all difficult subjects are: but not all men are pigs.

Evil exists and some women sleep with it. Some men certainly are pigs just like some women.




sadly very true....but walking away from them  wont change that...I often wish we could sterilise some of these men and women   they should never be allowed to reproduce...

I happen to, like pigs.. so not sure about that word...

lets call DV a CRIME....stop messing around with words...trying to pretend its sort of ok....until it gets to the "dead" bit then we call it a crime.. Angry
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #19 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:57pm
 
cods wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:52pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:00pm:
mothra wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:28pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
It's not me who argues about reciprocal violence in relationships - it's any number of studies.....

Anyone in a relationship knows that violence is always two ways - pretty much the same as the issues in relationships are... funny how that works.... two consenting adults (by allegation anyway).... tends to always be two way.  Cool

For those women who DO move from one abusive relationship to another..... I think Karnal has a point.  If there is any victim blaming' it is the victim doing it to herself... the reasons are countless but often to do with not having a firm grounding when young...

As a mental health professional (snuckles) you must have heard of the victim/oppressor/ rescuer cycle... some women and men do it all their lives.....



I got as far as "violence is always two way" then gave up.

No point.

I might not go as far to say that it's always two ways,... but the fact that some women tend to like bad-boys is not to be dimsissed.

Of course this is a very difficult subject to talk about,... as all difficult subjects are: but not all men are pigs.

Evil exists and some women sleep with it. Some men certainly are pigs just like some women.




sadly very true....but walking away from them  wont change that...I often wish we could sterilise some of these men and women   they should never be allowed to reproduce...

I happen to, like pigs.. so not sure about that word...

lets call DV a CRIME....stop messing around with words...trying to pretend its sort of ok....until it gets to the "dead" bit then we call it a crime.. Angry

It's already called a crime: stop being an empty-headed ball-cutter your whole life!

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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #20 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 2:27pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:41pm:
It's a no brainer for me. I've got 20 bucks here for whoever can produce a bloke hiding in a car, not able to find refuge from a wife who wants to commit violence on him.


How many women in that situation can you produce?  And, please, let's not follow the usual pattern - let's have verifiable facts and not just what some bolter with issues SAYS is the reason.

BTW - the 'crime' of 'domestic violence' in the vast majority of cases comes about because someone 'feels' the other person may become violent - and gets an (illegal) order against that person.  What then happens in most cases is that a technical breach of that order , based on the same standard of proof - that someone 'feels' it - means that the person oppressed already with an illegal order by a court, is then handed a 'criminal record'.

This is an end run around Law which stipulates that a GENUINE offence must be committed before a person can be tried and convicted of a crime - not some vague feeling or technicality.

This very dealing is part of the reason for the occasional over-the-top retaliation - when you go around stripping a person of Rights under law, inflict imposition without proper reason on him/her, and then create of him/her a criminal by the same standard - you are yourself committing an act of violence and retaliation is inevitable in some way.

The only surprise is that there are not more over-the-top retaliatory strikes - which conversely proves the point - THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE THUS AFFLICTED ARE NOT VIOLENT...so why are they in this position at all?  Just to satisfy some silly girlie's whim and make her feel 'empowered' by bullying someone else?   Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes

This entire nonsense is just feminist push for female supremacy in every way possible allied with the same desired outcome to suit governments - and it is coming to an end in this nation and the rest of the west as we speak, with more and more people speaking out against this kind of thing.

Stick to the facts, bogie... not the empty rhetoric.

Footnote:-  I was thinking of getting a porta-pig (a little one) for a pet.... don't insult the pigs by putting them in the same discussion as feminists.... pigs have more class than that....
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #21 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 2:33pm
 
cods wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 1:47pm:
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1508359045/4#4 date=1508367844]Unfortunately, cods, the concept of 'addressing violence in society', begun in 1992, has not progressed beyond what was then labeled 'the first step' - which was cutting down on man v woman violence.

Due to the hysterics and hystrionics of the feminist lobbies, with their endless 'upgrading' of what actually constitutes 'violence' (but only against women) in this context, this 'program' has never moved one step forward from that, and has instead become mired in the kind of endless slogging that was The Western Front in WW I - with increasing casualties on all sides and no end in sight.

You will recall that at the time, I said that Rose Batty had wanted to address FAMILY violence as a whole, but was forced to regurgitate the approved line - that men are the culprits 100% of the time.  Her special case was clearly special - her estranged was a certified nutter, and his actions bear zero resemblance to the normal daily fare that makes up what is popularly called 'domestic violence' - by those without the capacity to think clearly.

Meanwhile men are thrown out of their homes, robbed of their families and their accumulated wealth, and often assaulted, deprived of rights and personal liberties, and are, as a result, becoming more and more second class citizens in the nation they built.  Never a more clear picture of what WILL eventually bring about revolt... and but one of the issues that are disturbing and distressing many Australians and driving them to as near a rebellion as they can get - and all because we have fools with power trying to impose the will of their preferred lobby groups... in this case the women's groups.

So, no - it is not a matter of my turning it into just women v men - I am more than aware of all the other issues in FAMILY violence, and have laid out for you all before why the current approach is a failure.[/quote]


you do understand though its PEOPLE that make things "fail"  not the system..

if everyone thought the same   there would be no ozpol forums would there??

we would all wear the same things the same colour and drive the same car.....


everyone of us has a good and dark side.. yes even me  hard to believe I know.. but I prefer to encourage the good rather than the ugly....when I am shown the ugly side of someone I tell them how disappointed I am not for me  for them...their behavior  shows them up I feel....

now this starts at a young age...when kids are farmed out to childcare centers more or less from the day they are born...they are not taught about behavior   when a child ,plays up at childcare they tell the parent to find another centre as they find this child too difficult to deal with... how sad is that?>...dump them on someone else in the hope they get fixed...in the mean time we have a huge issue with kids falling through the cracks who go on to be adults...who never fit in but they also produce more kids to fall through the ever present gaps....a vicious circle..

but it isnt the system   that fails its the adults....


I dont think we put enough emphasis on being NICE  to be honest....lets face it grap  the things that make the news.. youtube   are mostly horrible things...kids fighting even the girls...damaging other people property  ...thats all cool apparently...we have some smashing things done by very young people and bless their hearts they get awards for these things.. but they hardly get a mention ....we have many young kids who are carers  for their sick parents.. do we read about them... barely?...look at our threads...the gross ones get the most hits...

DV  is also a back burner topic now...its all too ho hum  ..

it needs people to change grap...and to change we need to listen.. most people that are the main cause of DV  are selfish all about me types....

a lot of mistakes have been made  but they are being fixed....but at the end of the day its up to us...


Unfortunately, cods, the current dealing alienates and marginalises people (wow - and some reckon we do that to raving Musos!  Grin  Grin  Grin) , and by being itself an act of violence or several acts of violence, cements violence as the way things are done and invites retaliation.

For certain others here - I often quote the Dalai Lama on violence to you - and it frankly disgusts me that you are incapable of seeing the realities involved from ALL sides of the question, and  to see who is actually perpetrating violence in any given incident.  You really need to get out more, methinks and learn the real world.

Put simply (needs to be) when the State exercises violence to still violence, it is in danger of disappearing up its own anus...  stoopid is as stoopid does...
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #22 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 3:07pm
 
How do you actually go about proving that a feeling is real or applies to the situation?

There's the rub....

So a 'feeling' which cannot be proven to be such is enough these days to create an entire new range of 'criminals'?  What Fascist or Stalinist book are you lot reading from?
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #23 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:06pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:37am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:02am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 7:19am:
Maybe they could just try not arguing at home.... there are more men homeless than women, every time, and the current handling of 'domestic violence' is a disgrace in many ways, and is itself the root cause of much violence.

Women get massive priority in housing when homeless, and the figures are inflated by including children as if they have nothing to do with their father(s).  Not only that but claiming domestic violence is a convenient way of getting bumped up the list etc, and the desire of a woman to go her own way without thought or consideration for others is not 'domestic violence'.

The reasons for women and children living in cars etc should be FULLY explored... most of it is called poverty and hopelessness... most violence is reciprocal and often based on despair and abuse of substances etc .... fix those and you are a long way ahead of the game.

You will never resolve the issues of family violence while ever you adhere to the paradigm of 'women victims - men victimisers' and listen to the strident feminist propaganda about it all.


Good point, Bogie, and I agree. There is a chronic shortage of women's crisis services.

In my experience though, you create a homeless crisis service and it gets filled. You create another, and that gets filled up too.

Women leave one violent relationship, and within a year, they're in another. The cycle continues, the children suffer.

As Tony Abbott said when he opposed Rudd's homeless funding, "the poor will always be with us" (Matthew 26:11). While this was roundly condemned, there's a lot of truth to it.



There is a massively greater crisis in men's crisis services - and nobody really wants to address that.  There are ZERO services for men thrown out of their home over family violence unless you want to sleep with the great unwashed.

True - a service will rapidly fill up for any number of reasons not necessarily related to family violence (my cousin works in one).  The prime drivers seem to link with your next paragraph - a poor upbringing leads to an inability to establish and maintain a viable relationship, and this becomes serial, and unless the root causes of violence overall  in a society are addressed - and how can they be in any meaningful way? - there can be no real solution, only an endless parade of people bumping into one another and producing sparks and then bouncing, like a ball in a pinball machine, into someone else.

(I think Paul Simon got that one somewhere.... lessee now... 'there's a girl in New York city, calls herself the human trampoline' ... could have several meanings but it seems to fit.....)


P.S.  Not sure how my quote got tangled up with a reference to Bogie......

P.P.S  In housing the poor try to avoid the Ministries Of Truth such as exist in Waterloo... bleak monoliths staring stone-faced and petulantly at the sky while hiding behind their skirts the agony of thousands... (s'all me own work 'at is). I know a lady who lives in one of those, linked up with a bloke there and he was a nutter.....


There is no greater crisis in men's homeless services. In Sydney, they're funded about 3:1 compared to women & children's homeless services.
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #24 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm
 
mothra wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:22pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:02am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 7:19am:
Maybe they could just try not arguing at home.... there are more men homeless than women, every time, and the current handling of 'domestic violence' is a disgrace in many ways, and is itself the root cause of much violence.

Women get massive priority in housing when homeless, and the figures are inflated by including children as if they have nothing to do with their father(s).  Not only that but claiming domestic violence is a convenient way of getting bumped up the list etc, and the desire of a woman to go her own way without thought or consideration for others is not 'domestic violence'.

The reasons for women and children living in cars etc should be FULLY explored... most of it is called poverty and hopelessness... most violence is reciprocal and often based on despair and abuse of substances etc .... fix those and you are a long way ahead of the game.

You will never resolve the issues of family violence while ever you adhere to the paradigm of 'women victims - men victimisers' and listen to the strident feminist propaganda about it all.


Good point, Bogie, and I agree. There is a chronic shortage of women's crisis services.

In my experience though, you create a homeless crisis service and it gets filled. You create another, and that gets filled up too.

Women leave one violent relationship, and within a year, they're in another. The cycle continues, the children suffer.

As Tony Abbott said when he opposed Rudd's homeless funding, "the poor will always be with us" (Matthew 26:11). While this was roundly condemned, there's a lot of truth to it.



I can't agree with that. By suggesting that women go from one abusive relationship to another you are, aside from overlooking the severity of the problem across socio-economic and cultural influences, is a little too close to victim blaming for my comfort.

You are implying that there is a pathology in these (mostly) women that not only enables abuse but could be argued (by someone like Grappler) that violence is somehow reciprocal. Perhaps even hints at an underclass in which family violence is almost to be expected? Certainly suggests that a woman foolish enough to be abused will do so for perpetuity.

Your argument could, conversely, be used to suggest that men are inherantly violent.

I believe doing any of the above misses the mark dramatically.

The facts are that family violence can and does happen to anyone. There is no way to tell who or who isn't a perpetrator at face value. Many people leave family violence situations and unravel the hows and the whys and come out stronger, wiser and empowered.


The lack of women's homeless services gives us some idea of the problem. Women don't present as rough sleepers and get bed-nights funded to the same degree as men. Why?

Because for the most part, women find themselves housing in exploitative situations in the community.

In other words, women's homelessness is largely outsourced to sources of exploitation.

To expose this is not being part of some great conspiracy, It's just the way things have worked going back to 1788, when women convicts served the colony. It's not victim-blaming.

Love and hate are far more intertwined than that, as is housing, poverty and family life. You know this, Mother, You've lived it.
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #25 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm
 
The sexual harassment technique that most women have performed on men involves using an addictive but natural and common chemical substance to lower a man's willpower to the point of emotionally enslaving him for months and even years ...
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #26 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:19pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:41pm:
It's a no brainer for me. I've got 20 bucks here for whoever can produce a bloke hiding in a car, not able to find refuge from a wife who wants to commit violence on him.


Indeed. But most aren't hiding in cars, They're just quietly copping it.
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #27 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:26pm
 
domestic violence is a learned behaviour- a female who witnesses DV in the home is more likely to be attracted to a man who will commit DV on her- sounds perverse I know but very true- almost like a fatal attraction- this was my story- until i got woke- also males born into these situations become abusers- for the most part
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #28 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:27pm
 
AiA wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm:
The sexual harassment technique that most women have performed on men involves using an addictive but natural and common chemical substance to lower a man's willpower to the point of emotionally enslaving him for months and even years ...

seriously
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Re: The domestic violence situation
Reply #29 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:32pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 10:06pm:
There is no greater crisis in men's homeless services. In Sydney, they're funded about 3:1 compared to women & children's homeless services.


You serious?

Women get priority for public housing, they get to live with relatives/friends more often and still are defined as homeless (that's reality), there are large numbers of 'refuges' for women, and they get all this because they are considered to be more at risk on the streets than men.

That old Aussie Digger can live under a tree in the rain, but the little woman has to have shelter.  that's the way it's been since 1788... and unless we grow up as a society, it will always remain that way - based entirely on discrimination and prejudice
(both of which just happen to play into the hands of 'government' of privilege intent on preservation of their own status above all else and which process relies on discrimination, prejudice and privilege being established and maintained... get with the program here)....


The ONLY reason there are more places for street MEN is because there are many more of them - the women are in public housing etc long before it gets to that.

https://goodmenproject.com/good-feed-blog/why-are-men-more-likely-to-be-homeless...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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