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historical concepts like 'before' and 'after' (Read 3334 times)
freediver
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historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Oct 17th, 2017 at 9:16pm
 
It seems our resident historian and apologist for Islam has decided that even concepts like before and after are to be discarded in defense of a religion that he has no right or ability to criticise. Not one, but two separate threads:

Brian doing another elaborate tapdance:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 5:53pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 9:23pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 7:28pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:26pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:20pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:12pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 2:56pm:
In only 130 years, the Muslims captured the largest land empire that had ever existed.


In a single word, bullshit, FD.  Total and utter bullshit.  First the Mongols, then the British created empires which were larger in both land area and population than what was captured by the Muslims.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Comparison of areas:
Mongol Empire:
http://i.imgur.com/5ZkzGnV.png

Muslim Empire:
https://www.so-rummet.se/sites/default/files/Karta-islams-expansion-araberna.jpg

British Empire:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/British_Empire.svg


You really are confused Brian.

Do you think the Roman Empire was bigger than the Caliphate?


Didn't mention the Roman Empire, FD. 

Concentrate on what was said, not what you imagined was said.  In both cases, the Mongol Empire before the establishment of the Caliphates and the British Empire afterwards, out classed it in both land area and population size.  Tsk, tsk, such wilful ignorance.    Roll Eyes


You certainly are confused Brian. When was the Mongol Empire established?

Have you ever wondered why the British Empire brought about a massive and unprecedented increase in wealth and the spread of liberal democracy, whereas the Muslim empire brought about stagnation, with living standards remaining below what had occurred previously in the west and concurrently in the east?


Brian, let us know when you are less confused, OK?



The only one confused here is yourself, FD. 

Get back to us with a proper understanding of how small the Muslim Caliphate was compared to the Mongol and the British Empires...   Roll Eyes


When was the Mongol Empire established Brian?

Do you agree with this now?

Quote:
In only 130 years, the Muslims captured the largest land empire that had ever existed.


Or are you going to keep digging yourself a hole of idiocy in the hope of coming out the other side?


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Tsk, tsk, poor, poor, FD.  Sorry, bullying doesn't work with me.  Thought you'd have realised that by now.  Until you produce evidence that the Caliphate was larger than the Mongol Empire (which stretched from Poland in Europe to the Bering Strait, from the Barents Sea to the Persian Gulf) or the British Empire (which stretched around the globe, non-contiguously) you are just barking up the wrong tree.   I have provided maps.  You then tried to fudge it by concentrating on the Roman Empire, which I did not mention.   Now run along, I'm sure you can find some Grade Ones in the schoolyard that you can bully.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


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Mattyfisk
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #1 - Oct 17th, 2017 at 9:19pm
 
Which part are you saying is wrong, FD?
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freediver
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #2 - Oct 17th, 2017 at 9:19pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 10:29pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 9:25am:
Lastone wrote on Oct 14th, 2017 at 11:37am:
You paint a wonderful picture of the west being a chased and virtuous virgin being raped and abused by evil Islam. Shame it is a bit of a fantasy and that the west has been a bit of a slut and whore. The most recent example being the weapons of mass deception and the second Iraq war. Which has as direct consequence the creation of Isis. 


That is literally what happened. Remember, when Islam came onto the scene, the west was the wealthiest region on earth and stretched from Iraq to Spain.


Another piece of bullshit, FD.  Tsk, tsk, China was the wealthiest region on Earth.  Europe was in the doldrums, just having left the Dark Ages.   Under Roman rule, Europe, coupled with Northern Africa and the Middle East was even then, less wealthy than China.    Roll Eyes


China only became the wealthiest region on earth after the west had stagnated under Islam for several centuries. This was the first time in the 10000 years of human civilisation that the leading civilisation was outside of the western core. Still, the Chinese only managed to achieve similar living standards to what had been over 1000 years earlier under the Romans. Despite the previous example set by the Romans in the same place, the concurrent example set by the Chinese, and the biggest land empire the world had ever seen, the Muslims only achieved stagnation and oppression.


Muslims did not rule the West, FD, no matter how you attempt to paint it so.  Muslims only ruled the middle-east and the periphery of Europe (for short periods).  Europe was ruled by Europeans for most of it's history.    Roll Eyes


The middle east, and north africa, were the centre of western civilisation for most of the history of western civilisation.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #3 - Oct 17th, 2017 at 9:26pm
 
Sorry?
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freediver
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #4 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 6:45pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 6:59pm:
Quote:
I was asking you to back your claim with clear evidence that shows the Caliphate larger than either the Mongol or the British Empires.


I never claimed it was. This was just another idiotic strawman from you.


You claimed it was the "In only 130 years, the Muslims captured the largest land empire that had ever existed."   Unfortunately that isn't true.  The Mongol Empire was significantly larger than the Empire of the Muslims.   Tsk, tsk.  Run along, FD.  When you have some facts, we can then move this discussion along.

http://iranpoliticsclub.net/maps/images/112%20Arab%20Islamic%20Caliphate%20Expan...

http://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/78/89978-004-A4AECA92.gif

Big, big difference in area covered...   Roll Eyes




The Caliphate:

...

Brian's Mongol empire:

...

Poor little Brian is being bullied:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 5:19pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 17th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Despite being a self confessed expert on history (among many topics), Brian still struggles with concepts like 'before' and 'after'.


Do I, FD?  Tsk, tsk. run along.  I see you've started another thread.  Trying to bully me doesn't work, FD.    Roll Eyes


Cheesy
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« Last Edit: Oct 18th, 2017 at 6:55pm by freediver »  

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Mattyfisk
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #5 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 8:42pm
 
Brian's right. What are you trying to prove?
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freediver
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #6 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 9:19pm
 
Do you agree with this Karnal?

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:26pm:
the Mongol Empire before the establishment of the Caliphates and the British Empire afterwards, out classed it in both land area and population size. 

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Mattyfisk
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #7 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 10:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 9:19pm:
Do you agree with this Karnal?

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:26pm:
the Mongol Empire before the establishment of the Caliphates and the British Empire afterwards, out classed it in both land area and population size. 



The Mongol Empire surpassed the Ottoman Empire by a continent.

Is that what you mean, or are you just playing cute?
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #8 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 6:27am
 
Karnal's waiting for the Caliphate and another Islamic Empire... innit.
I saw the words historic concepts with karnal's name next to it thinking that must be a typo...  hysteric concepts for karnal I thought...  innit.
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #9 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 6:28am
 
...
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #10 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 6:35am
 
...
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freediver
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #11 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:23pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 10:10pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 9:19pm:
Do you agree with this Karnal?

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:26pm:
the Mongol Empire before the establishment of the Caliphates and the British Empire afterwards, out classed it in both land area and population size. 



The Mongol Empire surpassed the Ottoman Empire by a continent.

Is that what you mean, or are you just playing cute? 


So you see nothing at all wrong with Brian's concept of before and after?
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freediver
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #12 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:31pm
 
Now Brian is pretending the Muslims limited their rape and pillage festival to the Arabian peninsula:


Brian Ross wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 11:54pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
Brian whinged about me asking when the Mongol Empire was established, after he claimed it was before the Caliphates. Apparently that is also bullying. Asking him pretty much anything is bullying, or distracting him in any way from spewing idiocy in defence of Islam.

Brian, do you have the right or ability to criticise other nations or religions?


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128170/2467911-yawn_20smiley.jpg

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  You really are a petty little fellow, aren't you, FD?   Tsk, tsk,  you don't like to answer questions but only ask them, you don't like being corrected.   So, now, how big was the Caliphate again, compared to the Mongol and British Empires?   As the Mongols controlled most of Asia and a good slice of Eastern Europe, how much did the first Caliphate control again?  Arabia, wasn't it?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/MongolEmpireDivisions1...

http://www.ducksters.com/history/islam/four_caliphs_map.png


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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #13 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 5:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 10:10pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 18th, 2017 at 9:19pm:
Do you agree with this Karnal?

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:26pm:
the Mongol Empire before the establishment of the Caliphates and the British Empire afterwards, out classed it in both land area and population size. 



The Mongol Empire surpassed the Ottoman Empire by a continent.

Is that what you mean, or are you just playing cute? 


So you see nothing at all wrong with Brian's concept of before and after?


That depends on what you're asking him. Have you tried asking nicely?
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #14 - Oct 19th, 2017 at 6:42pm
 
It depends on what he said Karnal. Do you have a problem with what he said, or only the questions I asked him?

Brian is still at it:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 3:43pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
Brian did they teach you the meaning of words like 'before' and 'after' when you did your history degree?


FD, did your parents tell you the difference between outright lies and the truth when you were growing up?   Roll Eyes


This is the level of stupidity required to defend Islam.
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #15 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 3:55pm
 
ah... level of stupidity...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #16 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 4:41pm
 

Islam, as an Empire (military, not religious) is failing fast. It's glory days are long gone and it's running on vapours. Even now, Terrorism is it's last effort of being 'military', much like the Japanese sent Kamikaze's against the USA ...in the end.
All that is currently mapped as an Islamic 'Empire' will fold and be replaced by a new 'military' Empire known as ...Israel.

Big Brother has returned to the Middle-East and little brother has to drop the 'weapon' and apply for a Library card instead.

As for the Mongol's being an 'Empire'? It was like a dab of butter spread too thinly across a metre-square slice of toast. It was also scuttled by the Persians who 'opened their gates' willingly to the incoming Horde and 'traded' the Mongols into eventual demise.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #17 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 4:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
It depends on what he said Karnal. Do you have a problem with what he said, or only the questions I asked him?

Brian is still at it:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 3:43pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
Brian did they teach you the meaning of words like 'before' and 'after' when you did your history degree?


FD, did your parents tell you the difference between outright lies and the truth when you were growing up?   Roll Eyes


This is the level of stupidity required to defend Islam.


Why not answer the question, FD?  FD, did your parents tell you the difference between outright lies and the truth when you were growing up?   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #18 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 5:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
It depends on what he said Karnal. Do you have a problem with what he said, or only the questions I asked him?

Brian is still at it:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 3:43pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 19th, 2017 at 12:27pm:
Brian did they teach you the meaning of words like 'before' and 'after' when you did your history degree?


FD, did your parents tell you the difference between outright lies and the truth when you were growing up?   Roll Eyes


This is the level of stupidity required to defend Islam.


Not at all, FD, I think that's a good question. Did you get taught the difference between outright porkies and truth when you were growing up?

I'm curious.
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #19 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 5:05pm
 
Somewhere in a small corner of the world long ago...

...and white Europe ate from the apple of Middle-Eastern 'knowledge' and came to know that the Yellow Empire stretched from Asia to the America's and into Oceania.
That the Black Empire stretched from Africa, through India and into the region of Sahul.
The Browns ruled the Middle-East.

...so, have the White Europeans taken the fruit from the Tree of Life now, to be 'Gods' like us Browns, Yellows & Blacks - and live 'forever'???  Wink
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #20 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 5:10pm
 
Thank you Jasin. That was a pleasant intermission from the general squabbling that's filling this thread like a colostomy bag.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #21 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 2:50pm
 
Yes, JaSin, it was the Browns, Yellows and Blacks that did it.

Epistemology has never been Herbie's strong point.
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freediver
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #22 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 6:45pm
 
Brian have you figured out yet when the Mongol Empire was established?

Would you describe it as an outright lie to suggest it was before Muhammad?
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #23 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 7:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 24th, 2017 at 6:45pm:
Brian have you figured out yet when the Mongol Empire was established?

Would you describe it as an outright lie to suggest it was before Muhammad?


Hard to say, FD. Do you think we should rule out the use of lies?
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Re: historical concepts like 'before' and 'after'
Reply #24 - Oct 25th, 2017 at 9:04am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 24th, 2017 at 2:50pm:
Yes, JaSin, it was the Browns, Yellows and Blacks that did it.

Epistemology has never been Herbie's strong point.


...and now we see the 'Reds' emerging in North America, the 'Greens' in South America, the 'Greys' in Oceania and the 'Whites' in Sahul.
The world is changing and with it, the understanding that the x8 Regions of the World 'need' a representation of the x8 Races (both Old & New) within it.

'Empire' is an archaic establishment of Power in a World where 'total domination' is the ruination of all.
[Like a wheel rolling with just one big spoke]
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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