Australian Politics Forum - Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity

hatman92 Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 332 Gender:	Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity Reply #30 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 7:10am Bobby. wrote on Oct 11^th, 2017 at 7:50pm: In this way the Govt. will blame us for the blackouts - And so thy should, it is the urban dickheads that want all this renewable energy causing lack of confidence in the energy sector which causes higher prices and less supply.
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Bobby.

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #31 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 7:20am

BigOl64 wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 7:01am:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 5:55am:

I repeat.

Surely the power could be stored from wind energy & solar panels?

You only have to use the power to pump water uphill to a lake
or some sort of covered reservoir and then recover the energy
by using a hydro electric turbine when it comes back down.

I think the renewable effort has been very poor in Australia.

It has to be a deep lake to get the 'head' high enough to run turbines for that you need some decent mountains.

Work has it the the QLD government is going to lift the Burdekin Dam another 9 metres to just 50 metres deep and fit out hydro power.

The Lake behind the dam in 220 km2 and the catchment is 115 000 km2

And all of that will power only 30 000 homes in the north, or about 80 000 people. We have a population of well over half a million in that area.

How big of a dam will Melbourne need or dams more likely and where will they go?

What happens when the greenies find out about them, they will only allow intermittent power from intermittent sources like solar and wind and NOTHING else

Thanks to stupid environmentalists and an even more stupid public, Australia will continue to be the laughing stock of the world when is come to providing safe, reliable and cheap energy to its population.

Come on BigOl,
You only need some place where there's a 200 to 300 meter
higher elevation close by and it will work.

As I said Greenies would love it as it would prove that renewables have baseload power.

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juliar

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #32 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 8:10am

This GetUp! failed attempt by BlackDay to chortle about the possible need to limit power load is simply trying to exploit how the Greenies have sabotaged the Australian power system with their useless renewable rubbish.

The myth of Renewable storage is something the Greeny types spew up at every opportunity.

But where does all that spare capacity come from when the output of solar and wind is quite small and is easily sopped up with normal load ?

You would have to have dedicated solar and windy stuff doing nothing but pumping water uphill.

But the crunch comes when this whole shemozzle would only provide a drop in the bucket as the losses in this pumping water uphill dream are huge and the whole thing would be just a waste of time.

Mal's Snowy scheme is vastly different as it is HUGE and uses spare capacity from hydro to pump HUGE amounts of water during off peak times.

What the technically obtuse weak minds of the Greenies just cannot comprehend is that the technology just is not here to be able to effectively use solar and wind for network use.

In the mean time Australia will prosper with its cheap totally reliable Clean Coal Power Stations just like all the other countries are doing.

Thank the Lord Above for futuristic visionaries like Pres Trump and Tony Abbott.

Now watch the Greeny types squirms as their fictitious Globally Warmed world collapses around their ears.

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Bobby.

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #33 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 8:45am

juliar wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 8:10am:

But where does all that spare capacity come from when the output of solar and wind is quite small and is easily sopped up with normal load ?

You missed the point silly billy.

If we had more solar collection areas & wind power we could pump that water up hill & store the energy.

There is even molten salt heat storage.

Think for 1 second.
Even coal is stored energy from the sun.

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aquascoot

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #34 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 8:51am

thats not going to fly.

to fix the problem , we need to put the evolutionary blowtorch on the authorities.

i will be setting my air cons to 16degrees and running every appliance i can on the hottest days and i urge others to act in a similar fashion.

when there are massive blackouts, the authorities will build some efficient coal power stations and stop with those ugly bird killing windmills that produce diddley squat

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juliar

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #35 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 9:48am

Robert,

you are arguing in circles.

I already pointed out a separate dedicated solar + wind would be require to pump the water uphill.

Note that the output of solar and wind is quite small and is easily totally used up with normal network load so ther is NO spare capacity.

And note that the output of solar and wind varies wildly.

Now molten salt is another Greeny dream which is highly complex to operate and is usually associated with the mirror and solar furnace concept which cooks birds.

And this water idea is another Greeny dream as the amount of water required to be pumped up is enormous if it is required to produce any WORTHWHILE output.

Thus the amount of solar and wind required to pump a WORTHWHILE amount of water uphill is GIGANTIC and would cover many hectares of treeless land.

Now the ever present difficulty is terrain ie finding flat treeless land near steep mountainous country where sufficient fall can be obtained. There are very few suitable sites despite what the Greeny dreamers say.

To sum up pumped solar + wind is another Greeny dream.

Mal's snowy scheme is vastly different as it is HUGE and does not rely on the tiny erratic mouse power output of weak solar and wind but uses the off peak HUGE output of hydro.

One useful use for the otherwise useless solar + wind is to power electrolyzers to split water into hydrogen and oxygen for our future hydrogen powered transport.

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Bobby.

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #36 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 10:18am

juliar wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 9:48am:

Robert,

you are arguing in circles.

I already pointed out a separate dedicated solar + wind would be require to pump the water uphill.

Note that the output of solar and wind is quite small and is easily totally used up with normal network load so ther is NO spare capacity.

And note that the output of solar and wind varies wildly.

Now molten salt is another Greeny dream which is highly complex to operate and is usually associated with the mirror and solar furnace concept which cooks birds.

And this water idea is another Greeny dream as the amount of water required to be pumped up is enormous if it is required to produce any WORTHWHILE output.

Thus the amount of solar and wind required to pump a WORTHWHILE amount of water uphill is GIGANTIC and would cover many hectares of treeless land.

Now the ever present difficulty is terrain ie finding flat treeless land near steep mountainous country where sufficient fall can be obtained. There are very few suitable sites despite what the Greeny dreamers say.

To sum up pumped solar + wind is another Greeny dream.

Mal's snowy scheme is vastly different as it is HUGE and does not rely on the tiny erratic mouse power output of weak solar and wind but uses the off peak HUGE output of hydro.

One useful use for the otherwise useless solar + wind is to power electrolyzers to split water into hydrogen and oxygen for our future hydrogen powered transport.

Then we need more solar farms & wind power.
I'm sure a suitable hill can be found somewhere for
a hydro scheme.

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John Smith

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #37 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 10:18am

BigOl64 wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 7:01am:

It has to be a deep lake to get the 'head' high enough to run turbines for that you need some decent mountains.

Work has it the the QLD government is going to lift the Burdekin Dam another 9 metres to just 50 metres deep and fit out hydro power.

The Lake behind the dam in 220 km2 and the catchment is 115 000 km2

And all of that will power only 30 000 homes in the north, or about 80 000 people. We have a population of well over half a million in that area.

How big of a dam will Melbourne need or dams more likely and where will they go?

What happens when the greenies find out about them, they will only allow intermittent power from intermittent sources like solar and wind and NOTHING else

Thanks to stupid environmentalists and an even more stupid public, Australia will continue to be the laughing stock of the world when is come to providing safe, reliable and cheap energy to its population.

Researchers at ANU have identified about 5,000 sites in Queensland, Tasmania, the Canberra district and in and around Alice Springs as potentially suitable for pumped hydro storage.

http://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/anu-identifies-5000-possible-pumped-hydro-si...

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #38 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 11:47am

John Smith wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 10:18am:

Researchers at ANU have identified about 5,000 sites in Queensland, Tasmania, the Canberra district and in and around Alice Springs as potentially suitable for pumped hydro storage.

http://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/anu-identifies-5000-possible-pumped-hydro-si...

Did that do the obligatory environmental impact study before work begins? Wink

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John Smith

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #39 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 1:09pm

lee wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 11:47am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 10:18am:

Researchers at ANU have identified about 5,000 sites in Queensland, Tasmania, the Canberra district and in and around Alice Springs as potentially suitable for pumped hydro storage.

http://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/anu-identifies-5000-possible-pumped-hydro-si...

Did that do the obligatory environmental impact study before work begins? Wink

the link is there. You can read can't you?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee

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Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity
Reply #40 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:28pm

John Smith wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 1:09pm:

the link is there. You can read can't you?

Yes. Was there something you didn't understand?

"This assessment is based on very appealing physical characteristics. But the potential upper reservoir sites identified would require detailed due diligence involving land ownership, engineering, hydrological, environmental and other considerations."

So they have identified sites that even need due diligence on engineering and hydrological concerns.

Looks like they looked at a map and said "Yep, that'll do. 5,000. Woo hoo".

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity Reply #41 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:38pm you need help Lee.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16400 Gender:	Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity Reply #42 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:42pm John Smith wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:38pm: you need help Lee. I may do. But it certainly couldn't possibly be provided by you.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 72209 Gender:	Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity Reply #43 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:49pm lee wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:42pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:38pm: you need help Lee. I may do. But it certainly couldn't possibly be provided by you. I've never claimed to be a shrink
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16400 Gender:	Re: Govt Wants To Pay You To Switch Off Electricity Reply #44 - Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:58pm John Smith wrote on Oct 12^th, 2017 at 3:49pm: I've never claimed to be a shrink Thank you for admitting you don't know what you are talking about.
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