Australian Politics Forum - FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"

moses

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #45 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 3:53pm

Quote:

No, you leave out the parts of the Quran that advise the circumstances in which death and destruction is warranted.

And you avoid all mention of the Old Testament laws that the Quran is meant to be an extension of.

Oh do tell us which part of the qur'an qualifies allah's hatred of the unbeliever?

Didn't muhammad / allah say that the Jews got it all wrong (that's why muzzies can kill them no?).

Are you saying that the qur'an doesn't say not to take Jews, and christians as friends?

Gee karnal now you're telling us that muzzies wanted to be Jews?

Now be honest for once, we all know that the qur'an is muhmmads' attempt at pushing the old moon god allah as the new monotheistic god for islam. (he did unsuccessfully try and plagiarize the writings of the Hebrews)

All he succeeded in doing was to create a garbled message of islamic hate of all unbelievers and corrupt muslims.

------ and try as you might it's got exactly nothing to do with Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. etc.

islam is what it is (today 2017, a backward cult of death and destruction)

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Mattyfisk

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #46 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 3:55pm

moses wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:

Quote:

No, you leave out the parts of the Quran that advise the circumstances in which death and destruction is warranted.

And you avoid all mention of the Old Testament laws that the Quran is meant to be an extension of.

Oh do tell us which part of the qur'an qualifies allah's hatred of the unbeliever?

Didn't muhammad / allah say that the Jews got it all wrong (that's why muzzies can kill them no?)

Quite the opposite, Moses. This is why you won't read the Quran.

You'd be forced to face up to your porkies.

And remember, all you've succeeded in doing is to create a garbled message of hate of all Muslims and their apologists.

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moses

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #47 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 4:13pm

quran 47.4: So, when you meet (fighting Jihad in allah's cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been allah's Will, he himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (he lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the way of allah, he will never let their deeds be lost."

Next you'll be telling me allah doesn't want muzzies to kill people, he was really talking about a grade one exam.

All those dead muzzies are never going to get a houri or a little boy?

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Mattyfisk

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #48 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 5:30pm

moses wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 4:13pm:

quran 47.4: So, when you meet (fighting Jihad in allah's cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been allah's Will, he himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (he lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the way of allah, he will never let their deeds be lost."

Next you'll be telling me allah doesn't want muzzies to kill people, he was really talking about a grade one exam.

All those dead muzzies are never going to get a houri or a little boy?

They most certainly will not. The Quran is saying here that the deeds of those who die whilst performing a noble deed will be fruitful. An example is Christian martyrs - their deeds were rewarded by the mainstream establishment of Christianity.

Another example is Muhammed's followers who died defending their people. Their deeds were fruitful in establishing Islam.

Surah 47 is not about fighting and dying, but about doing and achieving. 47:2:

Quote:

And those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what has been sent down upon Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He will remove from them their misdeeds and amend their condition.

47:3:

Quote:

That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah present to the people their comparisons.

To understand the Quran, you need to understand faith, devotion and self-renunciation. This passage is similar to what Krishna told Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita. If you do your duty without ego, and with devotion to God, you succeed. As Krishna (God) says to Arjuna (a warrior):

Quote:

If you will not fight this righteous war, then you will fail in your duty, lose your reputation, and incur sin. (2.33)

People will talk about your disgrace forever. To the honored, dishonor is worse than death. (2.34)

The great warriors will think that you have retreated from the battle out of fear. Those who have greatly esteemed you will lose respect for you. (2.35)

Your enemies will speak many unmentionable words and scorn your ability. What could be more painful than this? (2.36)

You will go to heaven if killed, or you will enjoy the earth if victorious. Therefore, get up with a determination to fight, O Arjuna. (2.37)

Treating pleasure and pain, gain and loss, victory and defeat alike, engage yourself in your duty. By doing your duty this way you will not incur sin.

The Quran is not about the rules of war, it's about faith and spiritual progress. Muhammed's audience was a besieged people. Read a number of ancient religious texts, and you will get the same message.

All the references to the afterlife are allegorical. Islam does not teach that you literally receive 72 virgins in paradise, just as Paul's visions in Revelations are not meant to be read as a literal image of the End Times.

Those who believe these things literally - those often called fundamentalists - will be sorely disappointed.

I don't doubt that many people do, but I don't blame the texts themselves for that.

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« Last Edit: Nov 20^th, 2017 at 5:39pm by Mattyfisk »

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Frank

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #49 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 6:47pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 5:30pm:

The Quran is not about the rules of war, it's about faith and spiritual progress. Muhammed's audience was a besieged people. Read a number of ancient religious texts, and you will get the same message.

All the references to the afterlife are allegorical. Islam does not teach that you literally receive 72 virgins in paradise, just as Paul's visions in Revelations are not meant to be read as a literal image of the End Times.

Those who believe these things literally - those often called fundamentalists - will be sorely disappointed.

I don't doubt that many people do, but I don't blame the texts themselves for that.

Why were they besieged? (Jooooooos!!!!!!!)

During the early seventh century, Medina was inhabited by two types of population: Jewish and pagan Arabs. The Jews there had three principal clans – Banu Qaynuqa, Banu Nadir, and Banu Qurayza. The Arab pagans had two tribes – the Banu Aws and Khazraj. At that time, the Jews there had the upper hand with their large settlement and huge property.[14] Before the encounter between Muhammad and the six men from Medina in 620, there ensued a terrible battle between Aws and Khazraj, known as the Battle of Buath, in which many leading personalities of both the sides died and left Yathrib in a disordered state.[22] Traditional rules for maintaining law and order became dysfunctional, and, without a neutral man with considerable authority over things, stability seemed unlikely.[23] As the pagan Arabs of Medina lived in close proximity to the Jews, they had gained some knowledge about their scriptures, and had heard the Jews awaiting the arrival of a future prophet. It is because of this knowledge, taken together with their need for an adjudicator, that the six men who met Muhammad at the pilgrimage season of 620 readily accepted his message, lest the Jews should steal a march over them.
....

Muhammad's followers suffered from poverty after fleeing persecution in Mecca and migrating with Muhammad to Medina. Their Meccan persecutors seized their wealth and belongings left behind in Mecca. (SOUNDS LIKE GANDALF TALKING!!!!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegira

Who can still believe in Mohammed and Islam after the invention of the printing press, let alone the internetz.

And, Kameel, the Revelations aren't Paul's visions..... they are John's, so - ten rupee gimme.
Roll Eyes

tsk tsk

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92258 Gender:	Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse" Reply #50 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm Good point, old boy. Why were the Rohinga besieged? (Moooooooselmen!!!)
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Yadda

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #51 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 7:23pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 5:30pm:

.......The Quran is saying here that the deeds of those who die whilst performing a noble deed will be fruitful.

An example is Christian martyrs - their deeds were rewarded by the mainstream establishment of Christianity.

Another example is Muhammed's followers who died defending their people. Their deeds were fruitful in establishing Islam.

Surah 47 is not about fighting and dying, but about doing and achieving. 47:2:

[quote]If you will not fight this righteous war, then you will fail in your duty, lose your reputation, and incur sin. (2.33)

The Quran is not about the rules of war, it's about faith and spiritual progress.

Muhammed's audience was a besieged people.

"Muhammed's followers who died defending their people."

"Muhammed's audience was a besieged people."

LOL

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

QUESTION;
What is

"His cause"

, what is,

"the cause of Allah"

, which moslems are urged, by Allah, to kill and to die for ?

ANSWER;
Every moslem knows, that

"the cause of Allah"

, is that, to be a good moslem, you must do everything in your power, to spread the influence of ISLAMIC law.

And, it is a 'cause' which the most virtuous moslems will even kill and die for !

IMAGE....

In an age when ISLAM was spread, by the act of moslems killing infidels, ...in 'self-defence'.

"war is only permissible in self-defence."

IMAGE....

In an age when ISLAM was spread, by the act of moslems killing infidels, ...in 'self-defence'.

"war is only permissible in self-defence."

Images source....
http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/islam-101.aspx

.

In FD's wiki....

Quote:

Islam’s Just War Doctrine is a Lie

Muslims often promote the view that the Quran develops a doctrine of just war.

That is, war is only permissible in self-defence.

This is a blatant lie.

It is based on three broad misrepresentations.

First, it relies on the implication or assumption that in military strategy, anything short of slaughtering everyone in your path is self-defence.

Second, it relies on misrepresenting Muhammad’s actions as being consistent with a self-defence doctrine.

Third, it relies on misrepresenting the content of the Quran, by claiming verses say things they do not say, by inserting extra words into verses, and taking absurd liberties with interpretation. [1] [2] [3].....

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Deception_and_the_Just_War_Doctrin...

Whenever moslems are seen to be murdering others,
moslems will always make the claim that....

"war is only permissible in self-defence."

QUESTION;
If that is true, why does ISLAM have a doctrine, that divides all of the world into two 'houses' ?

The House of Islam, and the House of War

Why does ISLAMIC doctrine refer to all non-ISLAMIC jurisdictions as 'the house of war' ?

And in ISLAMIC doctrine, what is the 'inevitable' fate of those places that are have been labeled as, 'the house of war' ?

Google;
divisions of the world, according to islam

Google;
ISLAM divides the world, into the House of Islam and the House of War

Yadda said...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1487240389/54#54
Quote:

Yeah, that 'othering' process eh gandalf !!!!

It is just so, so despicable and unfair when people, willy nilly, associate moslems with ISLAM, isn't it gandalf !!!

/sarc off

.

"war is only permissible in self-defence."

Q.
If that is true, why does ISLAM deem those who reject ISLAM to be 'Harbi' ?

And what is a 'Harbi' ?

Harbi = = "one under a declaration of war", a non-moslem, WHO IS NOT UNDER THE AUTHORITY ISLAMIC LAW.

A Harbi, is an enemy of Allah.

".........A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbi

Google,

"A harbi has no rights, not even the right to live."

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« Last Edit: Nov 20^th, 2017 at 7:42pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 40485 Gender:	Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse" Reply #52 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 8:40pm Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm: Good point, old boy. Why were the Rohinga besieged? (Moooooooselmen!!!) Oooh!! So Islam in the 7th century is all about the Rohinga in the 21st???? Mohammed was a Rohingha, was he?? Ten rupee gimme, you bloody idiot.
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Mattyfisk

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #53 - Nov 20^th, 2017 at 8:47pm

Frank wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 8:40pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 20^th, 2017 at 7:02pm:

Good point, old boy. Why were the Rohinga besieged?

(Moooooooselmen!!!)

Oooh!! So Islam in the 7th century is all about the Rohinga in the 21st???? Mohammed was a Rohingha, was he??

Ten rupee gimme, you bloody idiot.

What do you think?

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moses

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #54 - Nov 21^st, 2017 at 5:21pm

karnal wrote Reply #48 - Yesterday at 5:30pm

Quote:

Surah 47 is not about fighting and dying, but about doing and achieving. 47:2:

Quote:

And those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what has been sent down upon Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - He will remove from them their misdeeds and amend their condition.

47:3:
Quote:

That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does Allah present to the people their comparisons.

To understand the Quran, you need to understand faith, devotion and self-renunciation

Oh dear you quote two verses and tell us they represent the true spiritual doctrine of islam.

Why the never ending deception karnal?

47:2 and 47:3 are simply portraying who / what is right or wrong according to muhammad / allah.

The very next verse then says:

quran 47.4: So, when you meet (fighting Jihad in allah's cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been allah's Will, he himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (he lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the way of allah, he will never let their deeds be lost."

Clearly and unambiguously decrees that muslims have to kill people, it even glorifies slaughter with the bit about allah could have killed the disbelievers but he wants muslims to murder them as a test.

So 47: 2 & 3 depicts who is right and wrong (muslims are the goodies no surprise there), 47:4 then tells the good muslims to go and slaughter the bad guys (disbelievers) as a test for allah and if they die their deeds will never be lost (they get a truckload of houris and little boys)

Now I know why you are forced to practice your dissembling, you and I know both know that truth will destroy islam.

muslims and their apologists know they can't honestly describe the verses in the qur'an which cause todays' islamic terrorism, to do so would demolish the inerrant perfect word of allah syndrome of the muslims.

So muslims and their apologists keep on lying, the blood keeps flowing, because there is one way only to stop islamic terrorism and that's to tell the truth about the depravity in the qur'an.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47352 At my desk.	Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse" Reply #55 - Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:08pm There are large tracts of the Koran devoted to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel, including the whole of chapter 9. You have to try pretty hard to interpret them any other way.
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92258 Gender:	Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse" Reply #56 - Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:15pm freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:08pm: There are large tracts of the Koran devoted to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel, including the whole of chapter 9. You have to try pretty hard to interpret them any other way. What percentage, FD?
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Frank

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #57 - Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:53pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:15pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:08pm:

There are large tracts of the Koran devoted to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel, including the whole of chapter 9. You have to try pretty hard to interpret them any other way.

What percentage, FD?

37.897%

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Mattyfisk

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #58 - Nov 21^st, 2017 at 8:14pm

Frank wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:53pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:15pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:08pm:

There are large tracts of the Koran devoted to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel, including the whole of chapter 9. You have to try pretty hard to interpret them any other way.

What percentage, FD?

37.897%

I see.

FD, is this correct? Do these large tracts of chapter 9 comprise 37.897% of the Quran?

Be specific, please. You demanded G tell you this for 3 weeks.

What's the answer?

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Frank

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Re: FREEDOM OF SPEECH = = "despicable form of abuse"
Reply #59 - Nov 21^st, 2017 at 9:04pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 8:14pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:53pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:15pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 21^st, 2017 at 7:08pm:

There are large tracts of the Koran devoted to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel, including the whole of chapter 9. You have to try pretty hard to interpret them any other way.

What percentage, FD?

37.897%

I see.

FD, is this correct? Do these large tracts of chapter 9 comprise 37.897% of the Quran?

Be specific, please. You demanded G tell you this for 3 weeks.

What's the answer?

Sorry, it's 32.921 % - depends on whether you a re talking about th glorious Arabic original or one of the various kuffar degradation of the holy Arabic. Which English version are you interrogating?
What about Chinese translations ? (In the Celestial Kingdom edition it's 38.043%. Is that perhaps the one you had in mind ( if mind is the word I want in your case))?
Be clear, Kameel. You are factual guy, don't get all paki pomo porkies on us now....

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