Australian Politics Forum - She's claiming 'racism' now ...

polite_gandalf

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #150 - Oct 17^th, 2017 at 8:35am

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2017 at 7:22pm:

Why did you tell me to google the word counts? Do you know what the word counts are?

You seemed to dispute the fact that chapter 9 constitutes about 2% of the Quran. So I suggested you google the word counts (of chapter 9 and the whole Quran) to check for yourself. I gather you haven't done that yet.

Oh and congratulations on shifting the goal posts and pretending you were only lecturing me on what chapter 9 means, and not the entire Quran.

freediver wrote on Oct 16^th, 2017 at 7:22pm:

Or is your argument that your lies about the Koran are not an important point because you are such a credible expert?

My argument is that the Quran is overwhelmingly a spiritual conversation between the individual and God - and precious little is devoted to temporal matters vis how politics (including war) and society should be run. Or in other words, I was disputing your BS claims about the Quran being overwhelmingly about killing the infidel and beheadings and what not. your spectacular tapdancing act and goal-shifting suggests that you don't want to argue with me on this and you concede the point - is this accurate FD? Well how could you really - after your revelation that you've only read one chapter amounting to about 2% of the entire Quran.

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #151 - Oct 17^th, 2017 at 12:31pm

Quote:

You seemed to dispute the fact that chapter 9 constitutes about 2% of the Quran.

I disputed your claim that it was one of the smaller chapters. This ought to be bleeding obvious by now, given your complaints about me bringing it up constantly.

Do you still think chapter 9 is one of the smaller chapters?

Quote:

So I suggested you google the word counts (of chapter 9 and the whole Quran) to check for yourself. I gather you haven't done that yet.

As I also explained, I googled it, but couldn't find the word counts.

Quote:

Oh and congratulations on shifting the goal posts and pretending you were only lecturing me on what chapter 9 means, and not the entire Quran.

Are we only allowed to wave our arms in the air vaguely while attacking the other's credibility and claiming to know the meaning of the entire Koran? Is this your latest attempt to avoid discussing anything it actually says? Or is the Koran so simplistic that you can convey the meaning of the entire thing in one post?

Quote:

My argument is that the Quran is overwhelmingly a spiritual conversation between the individual and God - and precious little is devoted to temporal matters vis how politics (including war) and society should be ru

So what? Muhammad could have added ten encyclopedias worth of highly spiritual magic donkey rides to the end of the Koran. It would not change the fact that chapter 9 is entirely devoted to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel. It would detract nothing from it. This is just your last desperate attempt to diminish the significance of this chapter of the Koran.

Are Muslims supposed to ignore 2% of the Koran, as well as all the other chapters about slaughtering the infidel? Can they be deleted from the Koran? Can their meaning be changed?

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Or in other words, I was disputing your BS claims about the Quran being overwhelmingly about killing the infidel

In other words, your hysterical strawman.

Quote:

your spectacular tapdancing act and goal-shifting suggests that you don't want to argue with me on this

Sure. Let's start with quoting what I actually said. Or would you prefer to focus on your lies about what I said? Or your lies about the Koran? Are Muslims supposed to lie about the Koran Gandalf? If caught out in an unintentional lie, are they supposed to furiously change the topic in the hope that no-one notices?

Do you still think chapter 9 is one of the smaller chapters?

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92191 Gender:	Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ... Reply #152 - Oct 17^th, 2017 at 12:39pm freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2017 at 12:31pm: I disputed your claim that it was one of the smaller chapters. This ought to be bleeding obvious by now, given your complaints about me bringing it up constantly. ... As I also explained, I googled it, but couldn't find the word counts. Ah.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #153 - Oct 20^th, 2017 at 12:01pm

freediver wrote on Oct 17^th, 2017 at 12:31pm:

Or in other words, I was disputing your BS claims about the Quran being overwhelmingly about killing the infidel

In other words, your hysterical strawman.

This is the waffly response you gave when I directly challenged you to estimate how much of the Quran is dedicated to violence:

freediver wrote on Sep 13^th, 2017 at 8:58pm:

The only whole chapter I have read is chapter 9, which is entirely devoted to the promotion of violence. There are lengthy passages in other chapters also devoted to the promotion of violence, but I didn't bother reading to the end.

translation: everything I've read in the Quran is dedicated to violence, and it is reasonable to assume everything else is dominated by violence. Is that not a reasonable interpretation of what you said FD? Are you willing to set the record straight and declare here and now that no, you did not mean to imply that the majority of the Quran is dedicated to violence?

You also gave this response to my assertion about the "insignificant" amount of earthly rulings and judgments in the Quran:

Quote:

freediver wrote on Sep 14^th, 2017 at 11:42am:

Quote:

Why do I self-identify as a muslim rather than any other religion? Where to begin? Not because of the insignificant earthly rulings and judgments the historical ruler Muhammad made according to the society he found himself ruling - I can assure you.

Yet the Koran is full of this Gandalf.

Asked you twice after that to clarify what you mean by "full of this" - as in how much is "full". Because to a reasonable person this sounds like "most" - wouldn't you agree?

Or would you like to clarify for us all now that by "full of this" you don't actually mean its a majority of it? Why didn't you want to answer me when I asked you before? Also do you agree its a pretty stupid thing to say on the basis of reading just one of the 114 chapters? How exactly do you conclude a book is "full" of something on the basis of having read just 2% of it?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #154 - Oct 20^th, 2017 at 12:19pm

Quote:

This is the waffly response you gave when I directly challenged you to estimate how much of the Quran is dedicated to violence

Yes Gandalf. That is what I actually said. Can you tell the difference between that and your hysterical strawman? Are you upset that I didn't give you the percentages?

Quote:

translation: everything I've read in the Quran is dedicated to violence, and it is reasonable to assume everything else is dominated by violence

Translation: you don't disagree with what I actually said, but you don't like my tone, so you will invent an hysterical strawman that is more consistent with your emotional response to what I posted.

Gandalf have you changed your mind about whether chapter 9 is one of the smaller chapters? Are Muslims supposed to lie about the Koran to non-Muslims in their efforts to downplay its promotion of violence against non-Muslims?

Why did you ignore my response about the significance of the percentage that chapter 9 takes up? What difference do you think it makes whether it takes up 0.2% or 2%? Are you compelled to retreat into this feeble argument because you lost on the actual content of chapter 9?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #155 - Oct 20^th, 2017 at 3:27pm

FD did you want to expand on what you meant by the Quran being "full of" earthly rulings and judgments? How exactly does one come to such a conclusion after reading one chapter out of 114 in its entirety? Does "full of" mean "well its prominent in the 2% of the book that I've actually read"? Its just that you avoided that one - again.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #156 - Oct 20^th, 2017 at 4:26pm

All the bunkum about a small amount of the qur'an is dedicated to evil is just crap.

What is important is the theme of the book.

Take the following from 88. Sura Al-Ghaashiyah (The Overwhelming)

10. In a lofty Paradise.
11. Where they shall neither hear harmful speech nor falsehood,
12. Therein will be a running spring,
13. Therein will be thrones raised high,
14. And cups set at hand.
15. And cushions set in rows,
16. And rich carpets (all) spread out.
17. Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?
18. And at the heaven, how it is raised?
19. And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?
20. And at the earth, how it is spread out?
21. So remind them (O Muhammad ), you are only a one who reminds.
22. You are not a dictator over them.

Thirteen verses telling muslims they are reminders not dictators over those in paradise.

But the next four verses get to the essence of the whole thing :

23. Save the one who turns away and disbelieves
24. Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment.
25. Verily, to Us will be their return;
26. Then verily, for Us will be their reckoning.

23 - 26 Hatred of disbelievers.

So 17 verses only four of them precisely refer to disbelievers, however the overall message is?

muzzies are good, disbelievers are bad.

that's the majority theme of the qur'an: kill the kafir.

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #157 - Oct 20^th, 2017 at 5:15pm

moses wrote on Oct 20^th, 2017 at 4:26pm:

All the bunkum about a small amount of the qur'an is dedicated to evil is just crap.

What is important is the theme of the book.

Take the following from 88. Sura Al-Ghaashiyah (The Overwhelming)

10. In a lofty Paradise.
11. Where they shall neither hear harmful speech nor falsehood,
12. Therein will be a running spring,
13. Therein will be thrones raised high,
14. And cups set at hand.
15. And cushions set in rows,
16. And rich carpets (all) spread out.
17. Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?
18. And at the heaven, how it is raised?
19. And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?
20. And at the earth, how it is spread out?
21. So remind them (O Muhammad ), you are only a one who reminds.
22. You are not a dictator over them.

Thirteen verses telling muslims they are reminders not dictators over those in paradise.

But the next four verses get to the essence of the whole thing :

23. Save the one who turns away and disbelieves
24. Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment.
25. Verily, to Us will be their return;
26. Then verily, for Us will be their reckoning.

23 - 26 Hatred of disbelievers.

So 17 verses only four of them precisely refer to disbelievers, however the overall message is?

muzzies are good, disbelievers are bad.

that's the majority theme of the qur'an: kill the kafir.

What's that "but" contained in Chapter 9, Moses. Kill the Mushriken, but... ?

And what's the "but" in Genesis and Leviticus? Kill adulterers, fornicators, sorcerers, blasphemers, entire populations... ?

Perhaps FD can say. He read part of a verse in Chapter 9 and had a chat with Abu.

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #158 - Oct 20^th, 2017 at 6:35pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 20^th, 2017 at 3:27pm:

FD did you want to expand on what you meant by the Quran being "full of" earthly rulings and judgments? How exactly does one come to such a conclusion after reading one chapter out of 114 in its entirety? Does "full of" mean "well its prominent in the 2% of the book that I've actually read"? Its just that you avoided that one - again.

I have already expanded on it. And you have already quoted what I actually said. Why do you ignore my references to all the other lengthy passages in the Koran encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel?

How much of the Koran would have to be dedicated to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel for it to actually mean what it says?

Have you changed your mind about whether chapter 9 is one of the smaller chapters? Are Muslims supposed to lie about the Koran to non-Muslims in their efforts to downplay its promotion of violence against non-Muslims?

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92191 Gender:	Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ... Reply #159 - Oct 20^th, 2017 at 9:10pm FD? You're ignoring my references, dear. It's polite to answer, you know.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #160 - Oct 21^st, 2017 at 7:35am

freediver wrote on Oct 20^th, 2017 at 6:35pm:

I have already expanded on it. And you have already quoted what I actually said.

So your final answer is - 'full of' means "its prominent in the ~2% of the book that I've actually read"?

Would you agree thats pretty hilarious? - saying that an entire book is "full of" something you saw in 1 and a bit chapters of a 114 chapter book?

Feel free to deflect again with your little "definition of small" jihad. I know thats so terribly important to you. Do keep your little deflection questions on the clipboard.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47313 At my desk.	Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ... Reply #161 - Oct 21^st, 2017 at 8:47am No Gandalf, that is your strawman. I made myself perfectly clear, and you have already demonstrated you are at least capable of copying and pasting it. You even appeared to understand it.
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Mattyfisk Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 92191 Gender:	Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ... Reply #162 - Oct 21^st, 2017 at 9:45am freediver wrote on Oct 21^st, 2017 at 8:47am: No Gandalf, that is your strawman. I made myself perfectly clear, and you have already demonstrated you are at least capable of copying and pasting it. You even appeared to understand it. Soeaka da English, eh? We knew it.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #163 - Oct 22^nd, 2017 at 7:20am

freediver wrote on Oct 21^st, 2017 at 8:47am:

No Gandalf, that is your strawman. I made myself perfectly clear, and you have already demonstrated you are at least capable of copying and pasting it. You even appeared to understand it.

Exactly where were you "perfectly clear" on what you meant by "full of" FD?

This is not a strawman:

1. you have read 1 full chapter of a 114 chapter book
2. you claim that the Quran is "full of" earthly rulings and judgments.

What do you mean by "full of" FD? Do you agree its pretty absurd saying a book is "full of" something when you know just 1 whole chapter of a 114 book?

Do you think your habit of constantly making such absurdly broad generalisations like this based on grossly insufficient knowledge can be a problem with regards your anti-Islam jihad?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #164 - Oct 22^nd, 2017 at 8:28am

What is wrong with the passage you quoted above? That's a pretty god explanation of what I meant, don't you think?

How much of the Koran would have to be dedicated to encouraging Muslims to slaughter the infidel for it to actually mean what it says?

Have you changed your mind about whether chapter 9 is one of the smaller chapters? Are Muslims supposed to lie about the Koran to non-Muslims in their efforts to downplay its promotion of violence against non-Muslims?

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