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She's claiming 'racism' now ... (Read 20115 times)
Gordon
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #135 - Oct 12th, 2017 at 8:17pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 8:08pm:
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google the word counts if you still don't believe me


For some reason I can't get the word counts. If you have found them, please provide a link. You can easily get the number of verses per chapter.

What makes you think chapter 9 is one of the smaller ones?


Is it because people only quote half of verse 5?

Perhaps you could elaborate, FD.  We'll do a word count when you're done.




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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #136 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:19am
 
FD do you agree it was absurd of you to lecture me on what the Quran is really about after reading just one out of 114 chapters?

Do you reckon Yasmin Abdel-Magied - another muslim you mock for their 'take' on Islam - has read more of the Quran than you?

Don't worry FD, you don't have to answer that. Just ask me more about the longest and shortest chapters in the Quran. Thats whats really important here.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #137 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:25am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:19am:
Don't worry FD, you don't have to answer that. Just ask me more about the longest and shortest chapters in the Quran. Thats whats really important here.


He's just asking, G - sheesh. Sometimes a question is just a question, you know.
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #138 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 1:24pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:19am:
FD do you agree it was absurd of you to lecture me on what the Quran is really about after reading just one out of 114 chapters?

Do you reckon Yasmin Abdel-Magied - another muslim you mock for their 'take' on Islam - has read more of the Quran than you?

Don't worry FD, you don't have to answer that. Just ask me more about the longest and shortest chapters in the Quran. Thats whats really important here.


If there are 114 chapters, how can a chapter taking up 1/50th of the Koran be one of the smaller ones? Please finish your lecture on this one. I have never studied Islamic maths.
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #139 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:55pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 1:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:19am:
FD do you agree it was absurd of you to lecture me on what the Quran is really about after reading just one out of 114 chapters?

Do you reckon Yasmin Abdel-Magied - another muslim you mock for their 'take' on Islam - has read more of the Quran than you?

Don't worry FD, you don't have to answer that. Just ask me more about the longest and shortest chapters in the Quran. Thats whats really important here.


If there are 114 chapters, how can a chapter taking up 1/50th of the Koran be one of the smaller ones? Please finish your lecture on this one. I have never studied Islamic maths.


Tell me FD - are you disputing the fact that you are ignorant of all but a tiny fraction of the Quran? Yes or no. If no, do you agree you have zero credibility in lecturing me on what the Quran is really about? Yes or no.

But don't worry, as always you are free to dodge that question again and deflect with something exceedingly stupid and irrelevant.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #140 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:57pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:55pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 1:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:19am:
FD do you agree it was absurd of you to lecture me on what the Quran is really about after reading just one out of 114 chapters?

Do you reckon Yasmin Abdel-Magied - another muslim you mock for their 'take' on Islam - has read more of the Quran than you?

Don't worry FD, you don't have to answer that. Just ask me more about the longest and shortest chapters in the Quran. Thats whats really important here.


If there are 114 chapters, how can a chapter taking up 1/50th of the Koran be one of the smaller ones? Please finish your lecture on this one. I have never studied Islamic maths.


Tell me FD - are you disputing the fact that you are ignorant of all but a tiny fraction of the Quran? Yes or no. If no, do you agree you have zero credibility in lecturing me on what the Quran is really about? Yes or no.

But don't worry, as always you are free to dodge that question again and deflect with something exceedingly stupid and irrelevant.


I am not familiar with all the verses on flying donkeys and wiping your arse with your bare hand Gandalf. I don't think they are either interesting or relevant. If you think they are, feel free to bring them up.

If there are 114 chapters, how can a chapter taking up 1/50th of the Koran be one of the smaller ones? Please finish your lecture on this one. I have never studied Islamic maths, and obviously lack your credibility on the issue.
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #141 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 6:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:57pm:
I am not familiar with all the verses on flying donkeys and wiping your arse with your bare hand Gandalf. I don't think they are either interesting or relevant. If you think they are, feel free to bring them up.


One of the common mistakes made by Islamophobes is to misattribute ahadith tradition to whats in the Quran. Alas, it probably wouldn't have happened if you had read more than 2% of the Quran.

freediver wrote on Oct 15th, 2017 at 5:57pm:
If there are 114 chapters, how can a chapter taking up 1/50th of the Koran be one of the smaller ones? Please finish your lecture on this one. I have never studied Islamic maths, and obviously lack your credibility on the issue.


Interesting you bring up Islamic studies FD - tell me, have you ever studied anything Islamic? Do you think you would be in this laughably embarrassing mess if you had?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #142 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 6:13pm
 
Do you still think Chapter 9 is one of the smaller one Gandalf?

Who told you it was?
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #143 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:31am
 
keep telling yourself its an important point FD.

I would want to be deflecting too if I acted as arrogantly and stupidly as you have - by lecturing to me what the Quran means, and then conceding that you had read hardly any of it.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #144 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 8:36am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:31am:
keep telling yourself its an important point FD.

I would want to be deflecting too if I acted as arrogantly and stupidly as you have - by lecturing to me what the Quran means, and then conceding that you had read hardly any of it.


Yes, but this makes FD objective in his study of the Koran, shurely.
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #145 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 2:13pm
 
The majority of the qur'an dwells on killing kafirs, or loving your fellow man?

Well this site tells us in part:

Amount of Text Devoted to the Kafir

The Koran says that the Kafir may be deceived, plotted against, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and worse. The word is usually translated as “unbeliever” but this translation is wrong. The word “unbeliever” is logically and emotionally neutral, whereas, Kafir is the most abusive, prejudiced and hateful word in any language.

Islam devotes a great amount of energy to the Kafir. The majority (64%) of the Koran is devoted to the Kafir, and nearly all of the Sira (81%) deals with Mohammed’s struggle with them. The Hadith (Traditions) devotes 32% of the text to Kafirs1. Overall, the Trilogy devotes 60% of its content to the Kafir.

Hadith 37%
Sira 81%
Koran 64%
Total 60%

Hatred for the sake of Allah and love for the sake of Allah is called Al Walaa wa al Baraa, a fundamental principle of Islamic ethics and Sharia. A Muslim is to hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves. Allah hates the Kafir, therefore, a Muslim is to act accordingly.
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #146 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 3:46pm
 
moses wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
The Koran says that the Kafir may be deceived, plotted against, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and worse.


moses wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
The majority (64%) of the Koran is devoted to the Kafir


Moses you are either being deliberately deceptive, or you have been fooled by haters.

The two statements, when taken together are extremely misleading. Assuming you are right that 64% of the Quran is "devoted" to the Kaffir - it certainly does not follow that all of this, or even most of it concerns "plotting, hating, ensaving, mocking, torturing" etc of the Kaffir - as you imply here. It doesn't. As I have made very clear previously, actual physical earthly temporal actions - whether they be punishments for non-believers, or indeed any other actions related to the non-believers or not - constitute a tiny proportion of the Quran. However much of the Quran is concerned with the 'kaffir' - I can promise you almost all of it is only mentioned as an example of the attributes and behaviours that the pious should avoid. Not to make muslims hateful and to take the law into their own hands. Which of course the Quran makes abundantly clear in several places:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." 18:29

So remind, [O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller. 88:22-23

And if they submit [in Islam], they are rightly guided; but if they turn away - then upon you is only the [duty of] notification. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants. 3:20


And then makes clear that judgement on matters of personal belief are for God alone:

However, he who turns away and disbelieves -

Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment.

Indeed, to Us is their return.

Then indeed, upon Us is their account.
88:23-26

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #147 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 3:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 3:46pm:
moses wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
The Koran says that the Kafir may be deceived, plotted against, hated, enslaved, mocked, tortured and worse.


moses wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 2:13pm:
The majority (64%) of the Koran is devoted to the Kafir


Moses you are either being deliberately deceptive, or you have been fooled by haters.

The two statements, when taken together are extremely misleading. Assuming you are right that 64% of the Quran is "devoted" to the Kaffir - it certainly does not follow that all of this, or even most of it concerns "plotting, hating, ensaving, mocking, torturing" etc of the Kaffir - as you imply here. It doesn't. As I have made very clear previously, actual physical earthly temporal actions - whether they be punishments for non-believers, or indeed any other actions related to the non-believers or not - constitute a tiny proportion of the Quran. However much of the Quran is concerned with the 'kaffir' - I can promise you almost all of it is only mentioned as an example of the attributes and behaviours that the pious should avoid. Not to make muslims hateful and to take the law into their own hands. Which of course the Quran makes abundantly clear in several places:

And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." 18:29

So remind, [O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller. 88:22-23

And if they submit [in Islam], they are rightly guided; but if they turn away - then upon you is only the [duty of] notification. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants. 3:20


And then makes clear that judgement on matters of personal belief are for God alone:

However, he who turns away and disbelieves -

Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment.

Indeed, to Us is their return.

Then indeed, upon Us is their account.
88:23-26



Just curious Gandalf, but which Quran do you follow? 
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Justsayno Go home and have talk to your fictitious autistic son, looser.
 
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #148 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 5:05pm
 
gandalf wrote:

Quote:
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." 18:29

So remind, [O Muhammad]; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller. 88:22-23


For goodness sake gandi what are you on about?


88.10 - 20: In a lofty Paradise. Where they shall neither hear harmful speech nor falsehood, Therein will be a running spring, Therein will be thrones raised high,And cups set at hand. And cushions set in rows,  And rich carpets (all) spread out. Do they not look at the camels, how they are created? And at the heaven, how it is raised? And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm? And at the earth, how it is spread out?

Clearly talking about muslims who have gone to paradise, not about the kafir.

Then

88.21 - 22: So remind them (O Muhammad ), you are only a one who reminds. You are not a dictator over them.

Unambiguously says muhammad is a reminder to these muslims not a dictator.

However the very next verse get to the point

88.23: Save the one who turns away and disbelieves

Save being the pertinent word gandalf, in this case it means apart from, except, excluding, with the exception of.

So the qur'an is telling muslims they are reminders and not dictators over people except disbelievers.

18.29. And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah). And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc.) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. Terrible the drink, and an evil Murtafaqa (dwelling, resting place, etc.)!

Now there is  nothing but hatred for the disbeliever in either of your examples in fact:

Hatred for the sake of Allah and love for the sake of Allah is called Al Walaa wa al Baraa, a fundamental principle of Islamic ethics and Sharia. A Muslim is to hate what Allah hates and love what Allah loves. Allah hates the Kafir, therefore, a Muslim is to act accordingly. would be the rule of thumb for muslims in this case, your examples are all about hating the unbeliever nothing more nothing less.
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Re: She's claiming 'racism' now ...
Reply #149 - Oct 16th, 2017 at 7:22pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16th, 2017 at 6:31am:
keep telling yourself its an important point FD.

I would want to be deflecting too if I acted as arrogantly and stupidly as you have - by lecturing to me what the Quran means, and then conceding that you had read hardly any of it.


I have lectured you on what chapter 9 means, based on what chapter 9 says. If you think there is something else among the flying donkeys and arse wiping that is relevant, it is up to you to provide it.

Why did you tell me to google the word counts? Do you know what the word counts are? Is that what you base your claim on that chapter 9 is one of the smaller ones?

Or is your argument that your lies about the Koran are not an important point because you are such a credible expert?
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