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Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again (Read 1604 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:07am
 
What is it about the 'very north' and the 'very south' of the world that makes their respective geo-political regions so conducive to stable government and freedom?

What's the common denominator? Can't be the weather (e.g freeze dried tundra vs hot baked Tanamai)...  Proximity to large volumes of ice (frozen water, that is)? Maybe... The people? Of course... although the south has just a smidgen of catching up to do with the north... And we're gonna have to do it largely without saunas (unlike those Swedish porn movies).

Top free countries
    Finland            
    Norway
    Sweden
    Canada
    Netherlands
    Australia
    Luxembourg
    New Zealand
     

https://freedomhouse.org/report/fiw-2017-table-country-scores

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Jasin
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:30am
 
Where is Australasia (South Asia)?
I think it might be the Malaya to Thailand and around area.

Australia is situated in the Sahul (Sahulian) Region which is marked most notably by the animals and vegetation that spreads all the way to half of Indonesia East of the Wallace Line. It also incorporates the Melanesian nations.

New Zealand belongs to Oceania, which incorporates all of Polynesia, Fiji, Hawaii (which is seeking to leave USA and officially join Oceania), to Central America and the Caribbean Islands.

As for Scandinavia (Europe) - well it tends to be more culturally associated with Oceania as an opposite. Like North America is with Sahul.
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:34am
 
Traditionally the wealthiest places were in the tropics. These developed fairly stable oppressive regimes that to a large extent still influence modern society through the stable social institutions they grew. The cold northern regions were the birthplace of freedom and democracy partly because this was necessary merely to survive, and later precluded the excesses seen in the wealthy tropics. The first attempts by the British to set up colonies in the Americas are a clear demonstration of this principle. See Darren Acemoglu's theories on this.

At the southern end the story was very different. Here, people were isolated by ocean and heat. Temperate crops and livestock (and the growing culture associated with them) did not make it across the equatorial and oceanic boundaries until fairly recently in the history of civilisation (credit to Jared Diamond). Hence, all of the Americas, Australia, NZ were isolated from the developing Eurasian economy. Even South Africa was to a large extent, though I think cattle were a notable exception. This made the societies weak, but also meant that the Europeans were strong there. Hence, the Europeans settled South Africa but not central Africa.

In the Americas, we see both influences playing out. European settlement happened in the tropics as well as the temperate areas, and ended up mirroring the pre-European social structures. Hence, the most southern and most northern colonies tend to be more free and democratic, while the basket cases tend to be the tropical regions that were wealthiest for most of the history of human civilisation, and can't seem to get rid of the endemic corruption.
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #3 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:29am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:07am:
What is it about the 'very north' and the 'very south' of the world that makes their respective geo-political regions so conducive to stable government and freedom?

What's the common denominator? Can't be the weather (e.g freeze dried tundra vs hot baked Tanamai)...  Proximity to large volumes of ice (frozen water, that is)? Maybe... The people? Of course... although the south has just a smidgen of catching up to do with the north... And we're gonna have to do it largely without saunas (unlike those Swedish porn movies).

Top free countries
    Finland            
    Norway
    Sweden
    Canada
    Netherlands
    Australia
    Luxembourg
    New Zealand
     

https://freedomhouse.org/report/fiw-2017-table-country-scores




Jeez we're doing okay since our government does not believe in codified human rights for any Australian and are considered one of the most over regulated populations of any democracy on the planet.

If basic human rights was the basis of one's freedom and we don't have any or very few, (3 I think) what was the basis for our 'winning'?



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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #4 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:36am
 
Quote:
and are considered one of the most over regulated populations


How so? We are a net food exporter.
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Jasin
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #5 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:39am
 
I do know that we have 2/3rds more 'paperwork' than any other nation. Hence why we don't need religion here.  Cheesy
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #6 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:46am
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:29am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:07am:
What is it about the 'very north' and the 'very south' of the world that makes their respective geo-political regions so conducive to stable government and freedom?

What's the common denominator? Can't be the weather (e.g freeze dried tundra vs hot baked Tanamai)...  Proximity to large volumes of ice (frozen water, that is)? Maybe... The people? Of course... although the south has just a smidgen of catching up to do with the north... And we're gonna have to do it largely without saunas (unlike those Swedish porn movies).

Top free countries
    Finland            
    Norway
    Sweden
    Canada
    Netherlands
    Australia
    Luxembourg
    New Zealand
     

https://freedomhouse.org/report/fiw-2017-table-country-scores




Jeez we're doing okay since our government does not believe in codified human rights for any Australian and are considered one of the most over regulated populations of any democracy on the planet.

If basic human rights was the basis of one's freedom and we don't have any or very few, (3 I think) what was the basis for our 'winning'?





Ordnung Vill Mek You FREI!!

I recall some thirty years ago one late night radio raver talking about Chile or some other Soud Amerigan gountry and its death by bureaucratic strangulation - and warning of that happening here.

How true.. how true...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #7 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:47am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:36am:
Quote:
and are considered one of the most over regulated populations


How so? We are a net food exporter.


We export fish?  Just joking...

Perhaps so - but this has to do with regulation and over regulation???  In economic terms this Banana Republican export of food and or resources benefits primarily the few... the rest become gauchos etc...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #8 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 12:41pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:47am:
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:36am:
Quote:
and are considered one of the most over regulated populations


How so? We are a net food exporter.


We export fish?  Just joking...

Perhaps so - but this has to do with regulation and over regulation???  In economic terms this Banana Republican export of food and or resources benefits primarily the few... the rest become gauchos etc...


We have the paperwork because we can afford it, just like the insulated houses and very expensive health care. That means no more people dying because the butcher wiped his arse with his bare hand and didn't bother washing it afterwards. Of course, the butchers complain about having to document the fact that they are not killing their customers, which is obvious to the majority of them, but that's the price you pay for standards.
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BigOl64
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #9 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 1:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 12:41pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:47am:
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:36am:
Quote:
and are considered one of the most over regulated populations


How so? We are a net food exporter.


We export fish?  Just joking...

Perhaps so - but this has to do with regulation and over regulation???  In economic terms this Banana Republican export of food and or resources benefits primarily the few... the rest become gauchos etc...


We have the paperwork because we can afford it, just like the insulated houses and very expensive health care. That means no more people dying because the butcher wiped his arse with his bare hand and didn't bother washing it afterwards. Of course, the butchers complain about having to document the fact that they are not killing their customers, which is obvious to the majority of them, but that's the price you pay for standards.



I was talking about more than some paperwork.


We are regulated and legislated to within an inch or our existence and the average Australian seems to be ignorant of happy with being so micromanaged by their government.


How is that make us free?


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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #10 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 1:54pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:34am:
Traditionally the wealthiest places were in the tropics. These developed fairly stable oppressive regimes that to a large extent still influence modern society through the stable social institutions they grew. The cold northern regions were the birthplace of freedom and democracy partly because this was necessary merely to survive, and later precluded the excesses seen in the wealthy tropics. The first attempts by the British to set up colonies in the Americas are a clear demonstration of this principle. See Darren Acemoglu's theories on this.

At the southern end the story was very different. Here, people were isolated by ocean and heat. Temperate crops and livestock (and the growing culture associated with them) did not make it across the equatorial and oceanic boundaries until fairly recently in the history of civilisation (credit to Jared Diamond). Hence, all of the Americas, Australia, NZ were isolated from the developing Eurasian economy. Even South Africa was to a large extent, though I think cattle were a notable exception. This made the societies weak, but also meant that the Europeans were strong there. Hence, the Europeans settled South Africa but not central Africa.

In the Americas, we see both influences playing out. European settlement happened in the tropics as well as the temperate areas, and ended up mirroring the pre-European social structures. Hence, the most southern and most northern colonies tend to be more free and democratic, while the basket cases tend to be the tropical regions that were wealthiest for most of the history of human civilisation, and can't seem to get rid of the endemic corruption.

Interesting!
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #11 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 5:25pm
 

For some reason, petty wanna-be-tyrants are 'a penny-a-dozen' in this age of men.

Why so ?

Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1505520921/5#5
Quote:

The SSM/Antifa/'Socialist Alliance' crowd,          don't just want to have the right to make choices for themselves,
.....they want to have the power, to dictate what choices others can make [for themselves].

They want to be, 'dictators',       and rule over others.





Why,     ......are these petty wanna-be-tyrants so prevalent in this age ?

Is it because WE [we, as a 'collective mind'],          we, have departed from the first principles of truth, and justice, and liberty,
that - FOR SOME REASON! - were deeply pondered upon, by our forefathers in ye olde England in the 17th century?





The Bill of Rights of 1689, in England,
            established that every freeman, in England, had a right, to be free from corrupt and cruel oppression, by a 'pretended power'.   i.e. a king, or his agents.

Including freedom of speech [i.e. the right to PUBLICLY and OPENLY complain about injustice and oppression by 'the king'], in the nation.

And, these protections were enshrined, by setting out common rights in law for all men, which in their application would always tend to prevent the exercise of any unaccountable and oppressive powers or authority, that could be exercised by a king, or his agents.


Quote:

Provisions of the Act


The Declaration of Right was enacted in an Act of Parliament, the Bill of Rights 1689, in December 1689.[12]

The Act asserted "certain ancient rights and liberties" by declaring that:[13]

    the pretended power of suspending the laws and dispensing with laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal;

    the commission for ecclesiastical causes is illegal;

    levying taxes without grant of Parliament is illegal;

    it is the right of the subjects to petition the king, and prosecutions for such petitioning are illegal;

    keeping a standing army in time of peace, unless it be with consent of Parliament, is against law;[nb 2]

    Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;

    election of members of Parliament ought to be free;

    the freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament;

    excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted;

    jurors in trials for high treason ought to be freeholders;

    promises of fines and forfeitures before conviction are illegal and void;

    for redress of all grievances, and for the amending, strengthening and preserving of the laws, Parliaments ought to be held frequently.

The Act declared James' flight from England following the Glorious Revolution to be an abdication of the throne. It listed twelve of James's policies by which James designed to "endeavour to subvert and extirpate the protestant religion, and the laws and liberties of this kingdom".[14] These were:[15]

    by assuming and exercising a power of dispensing with and suspending of laws and the execution of laws without consent of Parliament;

    by prosecuting the Seven Bishops; by establishing of the court of commissioners for ecclesiastical causes;

    by levying taxes for the use of the Crown by pretence of prerogative as if the same was granted by Parliament;

    by raising and keeping a standing army within this kingdom in time of peace without consent of Parliament;

    by causing Protestants to be disarmed at the same time when papists were both armed and employed contrary to law;
    by violating the freedom of election of members to serve in Parliament;

    by prosecutions in the Court of King's Bench for matters and causes cognizable only in Parliament, and by divers other arbitrary and illegal courses;

    by employing unqualified persons on juries in trials, and jurors in trials for high treason which were not freeholders;

    by imposing excessive bail on persons committed in criminal cases against the laws made for the liberty of the subjects;

    by imposing excessive fines and illegal and cruel punishments;

    by making several grants and promises made of fines and forfeitures before any conviction or judgment against the persons upon whom the same were to be levied;

    all which are utterly and directly contrary to the known laws and statutes and freedom of this realm.

In a prelude to the Act of Settlement to come twelve years later, the Bill of Rights barred Roman Catholics from the throne of England as "it hath been found by experience that it is inconsistent with the safety and welfare of this Protestant kingdom to be governed by a papist prince"; thus William III and Mary II were named as the successors of James II and that the throne would pass from them first to Mary's heirs, then to her sister, Princess Anne of Denmark and her heirs (and, thereafter, to any heirs of William by a later marriage).

[and it continues....]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689#Declaration_of_Right




JUST A LITTLE [i promise] MORE....       Wink


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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2017 at 5:52pm by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #12 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 5:26pm
 

John Locke was there too, among that august group of lovers of LIBERTY......




Natural Law....

Quote:

"16.  The state of war is a state of enmity and destruction; and therefore declaring by word or action, not a passionate and hasty, but sedate, settled design upon another man's life puts him in a state of war with him against whom he has declared such an intention, and so has exposed his life to the other's power to be taken away by him, or any one that joins with him in his defence, and espouses his quarrel; it being reasonable and just I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction; for by the fundamental law of Nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred, and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being, for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion, because they are not under the ties of the common law of reason, have no other rule but that of force and violence, and so may be treated as a beast of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures that will be sure to destroy him whenever he falls into their power.
17.  And hence it is that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life. For I have reason to conclude that he who would get me into his power without my consent would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it; for nobody can desire to have me in his absolute power unless it be to compel me by force to that which is against the right of my freedom- i.e.  make me a slave..."

Of the State of War


- John Locke (1632-1704)




"....he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power does thereby put himself into a state of war with him;.....

......For I have reason to conclude that he who would get me into his power without my consent would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it;"



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #13 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 6:17pm
 
https://www.edelman.com/trust2017/

Interesting, and worth a view.
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Re: Australasia & Scandinavia-Lands of the Free- Again
Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 7:21pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 1:19pm:
I was talking about more than some paperwork.


We are regulated and legislated to within an inch or our existence and the average Australian seems to be ignorant of happy with being so micromanaged by their government.


How is that make us free?




Economically, we're regarded as one of freeest nations on Earth. On The Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom we're often ranked in the Top 5.
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People accuse Capitalism of being a "dog eat dog" system, yet it was the Communists who ate each other when they were starving!
 
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