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well its just another opinion on ssm (Read 430 times)
cods
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well its just another opinion on ssm
Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:33am
 
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/david-flint-a-yes-vote-on-samesex-...

it’s not urgent. That’s what the proponents of same-sex marriage told the High Court. So why are we being rushed into trusting the politicians, giving them a blank cheque in what is no more than a pretend or fake ­referendum?

Voters might recall Alan Jones’s advice on the politicians’ republic: “If you don’t know, vote No.”

As to trusting politicians, it’s hard to think of even one of today’s problems which, if it weren’t created by them, they’ve not made significantly worse. From replacing the lowest ­energy costs in the world with the world’s highest, from declining educational standards to the way the criminal justice system better protects the criminal than the victim, today’s politicians have hardly earned our confidence.
This is because too many of today’s politicians are out of touch, coming from a narrow class of staffers, union and party officials and chosen not on merit but because of their loyalty to some factional boss or lobbyist.

The founders of this country proposed and the people agreed that the new federal Parliament would be authorised to make laws with respect to a limited range of issues. These ­included marriage.

Although they’d never heard of same-sex marriage, the founders and the people were well aware of other forms of marriage, including polygamy. They certainly weren’t about to give the politicians any power to allow men to have four wives, some underage. The meaning of marriage in the Constitution was — and still is — crystal clear. It means marriage ­between one man and one woman, nothing more and nothing less.

This meaning should prevail until the Constitution is properly changed.

In any democracy, words in a constitution must mean what a reasonable person at the time it was adopted thought they meant.

And having seen what can happen in other countries, the founders were very careful that the final decision on changing the Constitution should rest with the people. They certainly weren’t going to leave it to the politicians or indeed, to seven judges.

To make sure the people would be properly informed, it was agreed that the only way to change the Constitution would be by a Swiss-style referendum with the precise change and legislation approved both nationally and, to ensure there was widespread support, in a majority of states.

The founders were well aware of the dangers of using plebiscites to change the Constitution. Like opinion polls, plebiscites are just a question. This can too easily be loaded or misleading, as we saw in the 1995 Quebec secession referendum where exit polls revealed that many Yes voters actually believed they were voting to stay in Canada.

The point is that in a plebiscite all the details and especially the consequences of a Yes vote are not known in advance — they’re not on the table. The voters haven’t the foggiest idea what the politicians will get up to if you give them a Yes vote. Just as in the current postal survey or plebiscite.

The founders had seen how plebiscites — fake referendums — can be used to manipulate the voters. They were well aware that Napoleon Bonaparte and his nephew had used them to soften up the French until they agreed to turn them both into ­emperor-dictators.
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AnotherJourneyByTrain
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #1 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:17pm
 
Rushing is a con-artists trick: that's why everyone thinks this survey and its special laws smell a bit!
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2017 at 2:34pm by AnotherJourneyByTrain »  

......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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cods
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:27pm
 
I will be interested in the NO count....I am sure the longer this goes on  the NO vote will increase...people are sick of being pushed around....now they are making up a few on the run rules so no one dares   even think about saying anything to a gay person that could in any way be taken as abuse .... even if it wasnt...
if a gay person says it was... then it has to be....

you do know they are creating a them and us world.. 

it used to be rich v poor   now its everyone...

we all have an opinion  no bloody law will ever stop that.....all it does is build up resentments  and turn one against the other.....

oh thats right your gay  a protected species... Angry Angry

its political correctness gone bonkers.
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Bias_2012
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:47pm
 
Turnbull knocked another nail in his political coffin by publicly stating he and Lucy would be voting "Yes". He should have kept his mouth shut. Him and Barnaby "no burka ban" Joyce are on a downward slippery slope at an acute angle
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Ye Grappler
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #4 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:11am
 
Anyone sure the count of YES and NO will be accurate... or will it be leveraged to take into account people who don't answer the question or whatever.... what's that word when they come up with unemployment figures.....??

I used to work for the ABS.... they deal with statistics and include many factors..... why are they doing a survey of YES and NO votes?

So are they going to add a statistical weight to the number of answers to come up with the 'accurate' statistic?

Lessee now - 5,768,479 NO - 5,768,479 YES plus statistical rendition on the basis of projected variations = 7,468,511 YES and the NOs fail.......

Oh..... KAY>>>>>>>!
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Karnal
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #5 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:35am
 
cods wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:27pm:
I will be interested in the NO count....I am sure the longer this goes on  the NO vote will increase...people are sick of being pushed around....now they are making up a few on the run rules so no one dares   even think about saying anything to a gay person that could in any way be taken as abuse .... even if it wasnt...
if a gay person says it was... then it has to be....

you do know they are creating a them and us world.. 

it used to be rich v poor   now its everyone...

we all have an opinion  no bloody law will ever stop that.....all it does is build up resentments  and turn one against the other.....

oh thats right your gay  a protected species... Angry Angry

its political correctness gone bonkers.


The No crowd have it in the bag, dear. There will be no gay marriage bill in this parliamentary term.

But next erection, it'll be carried easily - no matter which party get in.
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Agnes
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #6 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:58am
 
Karnal wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:35am:
cods wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:27pm:
I will be interested in the NO count....I am sure the longer this goes on  the NO vote will increase...people are sick of being pushed around....now they are making up a few on the run rules so no one dares   even think about saying anything to a gay person that could in any way be taken as abuse .... even if it wasnt...
if a gay person says it was... then it has to be....

you do know they are creating a them and us world.. 

it used to be rich v poor   now its everyone...

we all have an opinion  no bloody law will ever stop that.....all it does is build up resentments  and turn one against the other.....

oh thats right your gay  a protected species... Angry Angry

its political correctness gone bonkers.


The No crowd have it in the bag, dear. There will be no gay marriage bill in this parliamentary term.

But next erection, it'll be carried easily - no matter which party get in.

The yes vote might get by this time I think but I agree with you- next time it most certainly will- 70% in favour atm-
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AnotherJourneyByTrain
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #7 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 2:38pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:11am:
Anyone sure the count of YES and NO will be accurate... or will it be leveraged to take into account people who don't answer the question or whatever.... what's that word when they come up with unemployment figures.....??

I used to work for the ABS.... they deal with statistics and include many factors..... why are they doing a survey of YES and NO votes?

So are they going to add a statistical weight to the number of answers to come up with the 'accurate' statistic?

Lessee now - 5,768,479 NO - 5,768,479 YES plus statistical rendition on the basis of projected variations = 7,468,511 YES and the NOs fail.......

Oh..... KAY>>>>>>>!

Either way I'm boycotting the whole charade!

It's a legitimate protest... the propaganda toward telling the no vote they have no right to even examine by discussion the consequences of changing marriage to ssm as regards the rasining of their children absolutely chills me to the bone.

If anyone else had a brain it would chill them to the bone aswell!

That is my rationale for protest by boycott:  Wink
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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Bojack Horseman
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #8 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 2:39pm
 
Who wrote the opinion piece?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #9 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 2:44pm
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:11am:
why are they doing a survey of YES and NO votes?


'cause it buys the government time and staves off the maddened wolves of the Conservative wing of the Tories' party, Grap.   The Parliament has the power now, today, to vote this issue away but Prime Minister Trumble won't do it 'cause he's scared of the Conservative backlash.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Quote:
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Answer the question, FD.   How many Muslims do you know personally?

I don't know Brian. I only know the religious views of a fraction of the people I know.
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Bojack Horseman
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #10 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 2:53pm
 
Plus theres also a belief that the people most likely to vote yes to SSM are the least likely to get a postal vote vote yes and pop it in a mailbox.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Grendel
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #11 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 3:11pm
 
My niece is going to vote yes...  because if you love someone you should be allowed to marry them.

Now there is a good reason to up the voting age to 25 or more.

No wonder The Greens want children to be allowed to vote.
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Grendel
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #12 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 3:13pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 2:44pm:
Ye Grappler wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:11am:
why are they doing a survey of YES and NO votes?


'cause it buys the government time and staves off the maddened wolves of the Conservative wing of the Tories' party, Grap.   The Parliament has the power now, today, to vote this issue away but Prime Minister Trumble won't do it 'cause he's scared of the Conservative backlash.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

More shallow thinking and spouting of garbage propaganda fwom bwian.

Given the Coalition would have settled this back in march bwian, you need to zip the back of your head up something seems to have fallen out. Roll Eyes
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Bojack Horseman
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #13 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 3:21pm
 
Grendel wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 3:11pm:
My niece is going to vote yes...  because if you love someone you should be allowed to marry them.

Now there is a good reason to up the voting age to 25 or more.

No wonder The Greens want children to be allowed to vote.




Oh for a really good teacher in logic.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Bojack Horseman
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Re: well its just another opinion on ssm
Reply #14 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 3:31pm
 
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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