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AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead ! (Read 18601 times)
Sir lastnail
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AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm
 
Get it through your thick skull libbos !! No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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lee
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?

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BigOl64
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:21pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?




Didn't  you know sunlight is free and you can use it to see and not trip over stuff. Nails uses it daily he loves the stuff and it is the centerpiece of his entire argument against base load coal.


Fkking brilliant stuff
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TheFunPolice
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:33pm
 
..
As the technology matures, the Pentagon could potentially equip satellites with directed energy weapons, experts said.

“While [lasers] are not yet at the size and power levels required for space-based applications, it is possible they could be in the foreseeable future,” analysts said in a report released earlier this year by the Center for Strategic and International Studies titled, “Implications of Ultra-Low Cost Access to Space.”

Space-based lasers could be used to target ballistic missiles during boost phase, missile warheads once they are deployed, other satellites in space, and fixed or mobile targets on the ground, the report said.

“Basing a directed-energy weapon in space gives it greater access to places that ground and airborne systems cannot reach,” it said. “Moreover, when targeting objects in space, the beam does not have to pass through the atmosphere and thus avoids the distortion that it causes.”

A solid-state laser would have a virtually unlimited shot capacity because it could recharge itself with solar arrays, the report added.

..

source: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2017/8/18/widespread-application...
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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lee
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:35pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:33pm:
A solid-state laser would have a virtually unlimited shot capacity because it could recharge itself with solar arrays, the report added.



How long to recharge? That will determine the cyclic rate of fire.
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:38pm
 
What would it be replaced by?
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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley
 
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #6 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:40pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?




Didn't  you know sunlight is free and you can use it to see and not trip over stuff. Nails uses it daily he loves the stuff and it is the centerpiece of his entire argument against base load coal.


Fkking brilliant stuff


Two words: South Australia.
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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley
 
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #7 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 2:33pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
Get it through your thick skull libbos !! No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!


....yeah more fracking fracking required...
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Sir lastnail
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #8 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:39pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?




Didn't  you know sunlight is free and you can use it to see and not trip over stuff. Nails uses it daily he loves the stuff and it is the centerpiece of his entire argument against base load coal.


Fkking brilliant stuff


certainly beats trying to see with dingy dim coal fired light bulbs that cost $$ to use Cheesy LOL
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #9 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?



neither are coal fired power stations but never let the facts get in the way of a good debate !!

and who pays for sunlight and wind energy ??

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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BigOl64
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #10 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:39pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?




Didn't  you know sunlight is free and you can use it to see and not trip over stuff. Nails uses it daily he loves the stuff and it is the centerpiece of his entire argument against base load coal.


Fkking brilliant stuff


certainly beats trying to see with dingy dim coal fired light bulbs Cheesy LOL



Actually my super bright coal fire LED lights are fkken excellent at seeing at nighttime, hows your sunlight work out after 9:00 pm?


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Sir lastnail
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #11 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:45pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?



Sounds like they are going to trash it rather than give a leg-up to the competition. All's fair in love and war. Next time the pollies should be careful what they wish for when they go down this privitization path. In this case it is a win win for the environment Wink
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #12 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:51pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:39pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?




Didn't  you know sunlight is free and you can use it to see and not trip over stuff. Nails uses it daily he loves the stuff and it is the centerpiece of his entire argument against base load coal.


Fkking brilliant stuff


certainly beats trying to see with dingy dim coal fired light bulbs Cheesy LOL



Actually my super bright coal fire LED lights are fkken excellent at seeing at nighttime, hows your sunlight work out after 9:00 pm?




So are my solar powered super bright battery backed LED lights f.ckhead. You ought to get some. They cost nothing to run and I still get to use the FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE sunlight energy at night  Cheesy LOL

Say it again. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!

And again. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!

And one more time. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !! Cheesy LOL
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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:02pm by Sir lastnail »  

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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BigOl64
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #13 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:06pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?



neither are coal fired power stations but never let the facts get in the way of a good debate !!

and who pays for sunlight and wind energy ??




Are you talking about the energy you use to not trip over in the daytime and blow wisps of your comb-over or are you talking about the electricity generated from sun and wind.


You seem to interchange the two like an insane person.


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83479553.jpg (47 KB | 50 )
83479553.jpg
 
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #14 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:11pm
 
If AGL won't play ball on Liddell Power Station then put through legislation that forces to it sell it to the Government for a price the Government determines, in the national interest

Then make it a Public Utility run by the Federal Government because State Governments are a bunch of f.... ups who couldn't run a chook shed and no more so than NSW's inept Premier Gladys Berejiklian

In fact all power utilities should be nationalised and run by the Federal Government then you would avoid the train wreck that is happening to power supply in this Country
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #15 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:13pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:51pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:39pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:51pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!



Except perhaps -

"Liddell power station could be bought by Delta Electricity "

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/06/liddell-power-station-cou...

Do you mean that the WIndmills and PV's are free?




Didn't  you know sunlight is free and you can use it to see and not trip over stuff. Nails uses it daily he loves the stuff and it is the centerpiece of his entire argument against base load coal.


Fkking brilliant stuff


certainly beats trying to see with dingy dim coal fired light bulbs Cheesy LOL



Actually my super bright coal fire LED lights are fkken excellent at seeing at nighttime, hows your sunlight work out after 9:00 pm?




So are my solar powered super bright battery backed LED lights f.ckhead. You ought to get some. They cost nothing to run and I still get to use the FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE sunlight energy at night  Cheesy LOL

Say it again. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!

And again. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!

And one more time. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !! Cheesy LOL



You got a solar fridge, TV, hot water system, oven, stove and were they free too

What about a solar computer, got one of them?



Fkk I have half a dozen solar bullsh1t toys including several flashlights in my cyclone kit, all of which I actually paid for, ya fkken clown.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


No-one cares if you have a solar powered torch you idiot.

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lee
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #16 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:20pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
and who pays for sunlight and wind energy ??



The consumer. Or do you live in an area where they don't charge for electricity?
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BigOl64
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #17 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:24pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:20pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
and who pays for sunlight and wind energy ??



The consumer. Or do you live in an area where they don't charge for electricity?



He has a solar torch and a comb-over so ol' nails is good to go in that department.
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salad in
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #18 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:59pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:46pm:
Get it through your thick skull libbos !! No energy provider wants to keep paying for coal when they can get sunlight and wind energy for nothing !!


2,500 new coal plants will thwart any Paris pledges


More than 2,400 coal-fired power stations are under construction or being planned around the world, a study has revealed two weeks after Britain pledged to stop burning coal.

The new plants will emit 6.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide a year and undermine the efforts at the Paris climate conference to limit global warming to 2C. China is building 368 plants and planning a further 803, according to the study by four climate change research bodies, including Ecofys and the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. India is building 297 and planning 149.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2500-new-coal-plants-will-thwart-any-paris-pl...

AGL is being very quixotic. How very brave of AGL.
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The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
 
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #19 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 8:44pm
 
When will the Greeny types ever learn anything about the generation of electrical energy ? Most likely never.

Industry requires constant steady voltage and frequency electricity supply.

Renewable rubbish is as reliable as a watch made in China and is simply hopeless for supplying industry.

But the Greenies want to reduce Australia to a desolate wasteland the like of which you might find in darkest Africa and so they are trying to sabotage the Australian power network so that it cannot supply industry and they hope this will close all industry down in Australia.

But Malcolm has had advice from qualified engineers and they have warned him that the supply of reliable base load electricity is getting too small and so Mal has taken action to keep the large Liddell power station going for longer.

And Mal is fooling the dumb Greenies with his Snowy Scheme by saying it will store renewable rubbish energy - the whole 100 bucket fulls a day!!!!!!

To avoid causing uproar from the dumb Greenies Mal is carefully avoiding saying Australia will start upgrading existing coal power stations to Clean Coal operation till after he wins the next election.

The Greenies are treated like redundant irrelevant naughty children.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #20 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:20pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
and who pays for sunlight and wind energy ??



The consumer. Or do you live in an area where they don't charge for electricity?


Who do you buy sunlight energy from ?? Cheesy LOL
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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:44pm by Sir lastnail »  

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #21 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:40pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:24pm:
lee wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:20pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 3:42pm:
and who pays for sunlight and wind energy ??



The consumer. Or do you live in an area where they don't charge for electricity?



He has a solar torch and a comb-over so ol' nails is good to go in that department.


Did you use your freeeeeeeeeeee quota of sunlight energy today ? How many dingy dim coal fired power light bulbs would provide the same light output as the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee sunlight and how much would it cost to run them ? Cheesy LOL

...
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« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:52pm by Sir lastnail »  

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #22 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:42pm
 
juliar wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 8:44pm:
When will the Greeny types ever learn anything about the generation of electrical energy ? Most likely never.

Industry requires constant steady voltage and frequency electricity supply.

Renewable rubbish is as reliable as a watch made in China and is simply hopeless for supplying industry.

But the Greenies want to reduce Australia to a desolate wasteland the like of which you might find in darkest Africa and so they are trying to sabotage the Australian power network so that it cannot supply industry and they hope this will close all industry down in Australia.

But Malcolm has had advice from qualified engineers and they have warned him that the supply of reliable base load electricity is getting too small and so Mal has taken action to keep the large Liddell power station going for longer.

And Mal is fooling the dumb Greenies with his Snowy Scheme by saying it will store renewable rubbish energy - the whole 100 bucket fulls a day!!!!!!

To avoid causing uproar from the dumb Greenies Mal is carefully avoiding saying Australia will start upgrading existing coal power stations to Clean Coal operation till after he wins the next election.

The Greenies are treated like redundant irrelevant naughty children.


listen socko. just follow your mate turdfull over the fossil fool cliff. Everyone else is moving over to renewables as quickly as possible because they believe the science unlike you retards who live in denial. Only the rightards would want to purchase an old clapped out coal fired generator from private enterprise Cheesy LOL
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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juliar
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #23 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:33am
 
LastSnail,

you are talking hysterical Greenie bunkum.

Countries all around the world are building Clean coal power stations - should they listen to you ?

and sun and wind are VERY MOST DEFINITELY NOT FREE!!!!!

It costs about $3 million for just ONE useless windymill that is unreliable and provides only about 30% of its rated maximum.

It cost millions to set up a useless solar farm which conks out after dark and gets covered in dust and then stops.

And this is just the start of the very high cost, as windymills require costly maintenance and are abandoned if they break down when the warranty has expired.

And what about all the very toxic waste in the scrapped solar panels and windymills ?

The evil Greenies are poisoning the planet with their toxic renewable rubbish waste.

And there would not be a single windymill to be seen anywhere if the govt was not subsidizing these piles of junk.

And windymills cause global warming and cause damage to health and kill hundreds of endangered birds.

The paw sowl won't understand a word of this as it won't appear in the piles of rubbish on the lying hypocrite Greeny propaganda sites.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #24 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:46am
 
No problem in getting buyers for Liddell as it is a money machine that works 24 hours a day and if necessary at full output without fail.

Subsidized uneconomic Renewable Rubbish is not worth the paper it is printed on when it is likely to fail at any time and leave industry relying on diesel generators.

Just look at Greeny sabotaged 18th century basket case Sth Aust buying diesel generators to prop up their shaky unstable on the point of collapse renewable rubbish network with white elephants everywhere. Typical incompetent Labor "govt" throwing good money after bad.




Buyers lining up for coal, says Barnaby
Paul Osborne and Katina Curtis Australian Associated Press SEPTEMBER 12, 20175:46PM

Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce says he knows of two enthusiastic buyers for the Liddell power station.

Energy giant AGL won't have any problem finding a buyer for the ageing Liddell coal-fired power station, says Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce.

AGL is considering whether to keep the Hunter Valley station open for another five years beyond its shutdown date of 2022 or sell it to another company.

Having met with Mr Joyce and Malcolm Turnbull in Canberra on Monday, AGL chief Andrew Vesey has also promised to report back to the government in 90 days on how to source 1000MW of reliable power beyond 2022.

But Mr Vesey insists the company can find the best solution for the energy market while still closing Liddell in 2022 as planned.
Mr Joyce said the best option was to keep the NSW station running for another five years.

The Nationals leader said he knew of two potential buyers.
"I've had people in my office who have said: 'I want to buy it'," Mr Joyce told Sky News.
Asked about a reported figure of between $500 million and $1 billion to upgrade the plant and keep it going, he said: "You are in a good range there."


The comments came as the government weighs up how to implement a clean energy target, as recommended in a landmark report by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel.

Nationals members meeting in Canberra over the weekend passed a resolution to oppose such a target.

Former prime minister Tony Abbott told the coalition party room on Tuesday a clean energy target grafted onto the existing renewable energy target - which he wants scrapped - would "be a difficult position to sustain".

Mr Joyce said investors cared about a clean energy target, but it must be set at a level "that keeps our baseload power in play".
"They (investors) know we will do the responsible thing ... to keep the capacity for coal-fired power in this nation," he said.

Labor says it will support a clean energy target to deliver certainty to investors, but want it set to promote greater investment in renewables.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten asked the prime minister in parliament how the government could expect investors to decide on new generation - which would drive down power prices - without a target.

Mr Turnbull said it was "under consideration".
"We need to ensure that the energy market design provides a suitable framework for investment that doesn't simply get new generation, but gets generation of the right kind," he said.
"Because you have to keep the lights on, and you have to ensure that people can afford to pay to keep the lights on ... and of course we will meet our international emission reduction obligations."

Mr Shorten accused the coalition of inaction over power prices since the Abbott government was elected in 2013.

"The Liberals promised power bills would go down by $550 every year. They lied," he told Labor MPs.
"Under the Liberals, power bills have just gone up and up and up."

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/politicians-power-up-blamegame-rhe...
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #25 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:24am
 
Clean Coal countries are clamoring for Australia's clean coal so much that the local power companies are having trouble getting supplies - a bit like gas.

Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's future.




Strong overseas demand for Australia coal deprives local utilities of fuel
SYDNEY (Reuters) James Regan SEPTEMBER 12, 2017 / 6:10 PM / UPDATED 15 HOURS AGO

...
A stacker/reclaimer places coal in stockpiles at the coal port in Newcastle, Australia

Strong Asian demand for coal from Australia is depriving domestic power generators of fuel and driving electricity prices higher, energy providers and mining sources said.

Local power companies are typically unable or unwilling to match the price premiums some Australian coal has been fetching in Asian markets, where less-polluting high energy, low emissions (HELE) plants are being introduced at a rapid rate, said three coal mining sources.

Australian Newcastle thermal coal cargo prices, a benchmark for Asia, have jumped by more than 20 percent since July to over $100 per tonne on strong demand from overseas buyers.

The shortage in one of the world’s top producers of the commodity comes as the nation battles to avoid blackouts that have become more frequent following a decade of uncertainty over carbon policy.

The shortfall in coal is most acute in New South Wales, the nation’s most populous state, according to the Australian Energy Council, which represents power suppliers that generate most of the country’s electricity.

“Many ... generators would like to run flat out (at their maximum rate), but they can’t because they don’t have enough fuel,” said Matthew Warren, the council’s chief executive.

“This rationing of fuel creates scarcity which has pushed up wholesale (electricity) prices.”

Coal supplies in New South Wales are constrained as around 80 percent of the state’s output is already contracted for export, according to Warren.


Domestic coal buyers are also reluctant to enter into long-term ‘take or pay’ supply contracts, expecting more coal-fired plants to be phased out by a national push toward renewable energy sources over coal. Under such contracts, buyers must take delivery of a set amount of coal or pay a penalty.

“We just don’t see new development of coal as economically rational, even before factoring in a carbon cost,” Andy Vesey, chief executive of Australia’s biggest power producer, AGL Energy, said this week.

AGL faces government pressure to sell rather than close one of its coal-fired plants to help keep the lights on in a market short on stable power supplies.

In contrast, Japan, Australia’s largest overseas thermal coal market, taking more than a third of all exports, has plans for an additional 45 coal plants.

Data from the Department of Industry shows Australia is forecast to produce around 251 million tonnes of thermal coal this year and export 201 million tonnes.

Coal exports through the Port of Newcastle jumped to 14.2 million tonnes in July from 12.3 million tonnes in June, port figures showed.

GRAPHIC on Australia thermal coal prices
...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-coal/strong-overseas-demand-for-aus...
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #26 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 9:31am
 
The Liberals promised power bills would go down by $550 every year. They lied," he told Labor MPs.
"Under the Liberals, power bills have just gone up and up and up."   Sad
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #27 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:47am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 8:33am:
LastSnail,

you are talking hysterical Greenie bunkum.

Countries all around the world are building Clean coal power stations - should they listen to you ?

and sun and wind are VERY MOST DEFINITELY NOT FREE!!!!!

It costs about $3 million for just ONE useless windymill that is unreliable and provides only about 30% of its rated maximum.

It cost millions to set up a useless solar farm which conks out after dark and gets covered in dust and then stops.

And this is just the start of the very high cost, as windymills require costly maintenance and are abandoned if they break down when the warranty has expired.

And what about all the very toxic waste in the scrapped solar panels and windymills ?

The evil Greenies are poisoning the planet with their toxic renewable rubbish waste.

And there would not be a single windymill to be seen anywhere if the govt was not subsidizing these piles of junk.

And windymills cause global warming and cause damage to health and kill hundreds of endangered birds.

The paw sowl won't understand a word of this as it won't appear in the piles of rubbish on the lying hypocrite Greeny propaganda sites.


As opposed to the crap that comes out of every tail pipe of all of the 1 billion fossil fool vehicles on the roads Sad Try again socko because nobody is buying your bullshit anymore. Meanwhile I am enjoying my freeeeeeeee sunlight energy  Cheesy LOL
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #28 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:55am
 
LostSnail, you couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag.

All you are doing is reciting the lying hypocrite nonsense you find from rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greenie propaganda sites.

Quit while you are behind.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #29 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 11:23am
 
juliar wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:55am:
LostSnail, you couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag.

All you are doing is reciting the lying hypocrite nonsense you find from rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greenie propaganda sites.

Quit while you are behind.



Nails talks about his free sunlight energy, like he isn't connected to the grid in anyway and he runs the latest tech all run on pure solar energy.


Here is his reality

He does not own a house, there is no independent base load solar connection for him at his parents place where he lives

He does not own an electric car, if does own a car it will be just like ours but much, much older.


When he talks about his free solar energy he is talking about a fkken solar torch or or walking around in the warm sunshine and nothing more.



He is a mindless gimp with delusions of adequacy.

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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #30 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 11:23am:
juliar wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:55am:
LostSnail, you couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag.

All you are doing is reciting the lying hypocrite nonsense you find from rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greenie propaganda sites.

Quit while you are behind.



Nails talks about his free sunlight energy, like he isn't connected to the grid in anyway and he runs the latest tech all run on pure solar energy.


Here is his reality

He does not own a house, there is no independent base load solar connection for him at his parents place where he lives

He does not own an electric car, if does own a car it will be just like ours but much, much older.


When he talks about his free solar energy he is talking about a fkken solar torch or or walking around in the warm sunshine and nothing more.



He is a mindless gimp with delusions of adequacy.



That's right attack the messenger as usual when you don't have anything to offer.

My point is that you rightard hyprocrites use non baseload renewable energy every day of your lives but continue to peddle the myth that it is totally unusable !!

Electric cars are no good because you can't drive from melbourne to sydney on one charge even though Tesla provides a workable solution used in many countries right now !!

Lithium batteries are environmental nightmare but coal fired power isn't Cheesy LOL

Of course Lithium batteries are only an issue when used in electric cars and grid battery backup however never any mention about the billions of existing lithium ion cell batteries that are used around the world in nearly all rechargeable devices Cheesy LOL

Proof that LNP are retarded and should not be in charge of running a country !


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #31 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:27pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Who do you buy sunlight energy from ?? Cheesy LOL



Synergy have a couple of soalrr farms feeding the grid. So they will be in the electricity mix. Who is your supplier? Wink
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #32 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:33pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 11:23am:
juliar wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 10:55am:
LostSnail, you couldn't argue your way out of a paper bag.

All you are doing is reciting the lying hypocrite nonsense you find from rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greenie propaganda sites.

Quit while you are behind.



Nails talks about his free sunlight energy, like he isn't connected to the grid in anyway and he runs the latest tech all run on pure solar energy.


Here is his reality

He does not own a house, there is no independent base load solar connection for him at his parents place where he lives

He does not own an electric car, if does own a car it will be just like ours but much, much older.


When he talks about his free solar energy he is talking about a fkken solar torch or or walking around in the warm sunshine and nothing more.



He is a mindless gimp with delusions of adequacy.



That's right attack the messenger as usual when you don't have anything to offer.

My point is that you rightard hyprocrites use non baseload renewable energy every day of your lives but continue to peddle the myth that it is totally unusable !!

Electric cars are no good because you can't drive from melbourne to sydney on one charge even though Tesla provides a workable solution used in many countries right now !!

Lithium batteries are environmental nightmare but coal fired power isn't Cheesy LOL

Of course Lithium batteries are only an issue when used in electric cars and grid battery backup however never any mention about the billions of existing lithium ion cell batteries that are used around the world in nearly all rechargeable devices Cheesy LOL

Proof that LNP are retarded and should not be in charge of running a country !





Nice reply, been working on long?  Smiley Smiley


Actually what I have always said and Ill repeat it again just for you


Renewable energy (solar / wind) cannot be used as reliable base load power. You know how I know? Not one single industrialise country on the planet has renewable as their base load ir is only good for top up and only if it working at the time you need it.


Ever wonder why nearly every country except us are still building base load power stations?


Talk to me when you have base load sorted until then, you are masturbating on your own.






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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #33 - Sep 13th, 2017 at 7:01pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
My point is that you rightard hyprocrites use non baseload renewable energy every day of your lives but continue to peddle the myth that it is totally unusable !!


You mean that small fraction that's fed in on top of baseload power? In the majority of states, solar and wind provide minimal power, so it is easy to overcome the intermittency.

Whoever said it is TOTALLY unusable? In can be incorporated into large grids. The fact that they need fossil fuel as more than backup should tell you something. But apparently, sadly it doesn't.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
Electric cars are no good because you can't drive from melbourne to sydney on one charge even though Tesla provides a workable solution used in many countries right now !!


Stop for a coffee every 3 hours for 2 hours?

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
Lithium batteries are environmental nightmare but coal fired power isn't



Lithium is a scarce resource. Currently, if the Chinese  go non-fossil fuel, at some future point in time, they say lithium will last 16.5 years.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #34 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 10:15am
 
lee wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:27pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Who do you buy sunlight energy from ?? Cheesy LOL



Synergy have a couple of soalrr farms feeding the grid. So they will be in the electricity mix. Who is your supplier? Wink


I was talking about sunlight energy not electrical energy.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #35 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 10:20am
 
lee wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
My point is that you rightard hyprocrites use non baseload renewable energy every day of your lives but continue to peddle the myth that it is totally unusable !!


You mean that small fraction that's fed in on top of baseload power? In the majority of states, solar and wind provide minimal power, so it is easy to overcome the intermittency.

Whoever said it is TOTALLY unusable? In can be incorporated into large grids. The fact that they need fossil fuel as more than backup should tell you something. But apparently, sadly it doesn't.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
Electric cars are no good because you can't drive from melbourne to sydney on one charge even though Tesla provides a workable solution used in many countries right now !!


Stop for a coffee every 3 hours for 2 hours?

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:09pm:
Lithium batteries are environmental nightmare but coal fired power isn't



Lithium is a scarce resource. Currently, if the Chinese  go non-fossil fuel, at some future point in time, they say lithium will last 16.5 years.


That's funny no mention of the lithium used in your mobile phone and laptop batteries as being scarce. Keep Knocking out those of course !!

so when all of the fossil fools run out one day what do you recommend then ? Not your problem I guess. GHG emissions is not your problem either or just pretend it doesn't exist kind of solves the problem for you.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #36 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:24pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 10:15am:
lee wrote on Sep 13th, 2017 at 6:27pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Who do you buy sunlight energy from ?? Cheesy LOL



Synergy have a couple of soalrr farms feeding the grid. So they will be in the electricity mix. Who is your supplier? Wink


I was talking about sunlight energy not electrical energy.




And that is why everyone treats you like a contemptible little cretin; who owns a solar torch.  Smiley Smiley


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #37 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 1:29pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 10:20am:
That's funny no mention of the lithium used in your mobile phone and laptop batteries as being scarce. Keep Knocking out those of course !!



You obviously didn't read the full article I quoted when you replied -

"lee wrote on Sep 11th, 2017 at 12:43pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11th, 2017 at 9:35am:
And a lot less to produce than your typical fossil fool vehicle and a lot less emissions, replacement of parts after delivery to the customer

Have you got figures for that? Estimated GHG's for making the battery -

"In this study, by establishing a life cycle assessment framework, GHG emissions from the production of lithium-ion batteries in China are estimated. The results show that for the three types of most commonly used lithium-ion batteries, the (LFP) battery, the (NMC) battery and the (LMO) battery, the GHG emissions from the production of a 28 kWh battery are 3061 kgCO 2 -eq, 2912 kgCO 2 -eq and 2705 kgCO 2 -eq, respectively. This implies around a 30% increase in GHG emissions from vehicle production compared with conventional vehicles. The productions of cathode materials and wrought aluminum are the dominating contributors of GHG emissions, together accounting for around three quarters of total emissions."

www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/9/4/504/pdf "

Knock yourself out.
Or perhaps your getting forgetful.



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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #38 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:07pm
 
OK smart guys if coal fired power or "clean coal" is all the go then why isn't private enterprise investing in it ??

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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #39 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:14pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 1:29pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 10:20am:
That's funny no mention of the lithium used in your mobile phone and laptop batteries as being scarce. Keep Knocking out those of course !!



You obviously didn't read the full article I quoted when you replied -

"lee wrote on Sep 11th, 2017 at 12:43pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 11th, 2017 at 9:35am:
And a lot less to produce than your typical fossil fool vehicle and a lot less emissions, replacement of parts after delivery to the customer

Have you got figures for that? Estimated GHG's for making the battery -

"In this study, by establishing a life cycle assessment framework, GHG emissions from the production of lithium-ion batteries in China are estimated. The results show that for the three types of most commonly used lithium-ion batteries, the (LFP) battery, the (NMC) battery and the (LMO) battery, the GHG emissions from the production of a 28 kWh battery are 3061 kgCO 2 -eq, 2912 kgCO 2 -eq and 2705 kgCO 2 -eq, respectively. This implies around a 30% increase in GHG emissions from vehicle production compared with conventional vehicles. The productions of cathode materials and wrought aluminum are the dominating contributors of GHG emissions, together accounting for around three quarters of total emissions."

www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/9/4/504/pdf "

Knock yourself out.
Or perhaps your getting forgetful.





And I presented a counter argument that the Tesla gigafactory was to be carbon neutral so put that in your pipe and smoke it. Maybe ask Elon Musk how to build one instead of taking the word of some obscure article on the internet which only represents the current state of manufacturing technology.

Of course your stupid arguments always neglects the inefficiency and pollution aspect of fossil fool car manufacturer and usage. I noticed you never mention that aspect. Seems only to be an issue any time any alternative competing technology is mentioned.

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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #40 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:33pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:07pm:
OK smart guys if coal fired power or "clean coal" is all the go then why isn't private enterprise investing in it ??




Only Australia is refusing to invest in base load power the rest of the world isn't run by cretins intimidated by even bigger cretins.


By the time we are done fkking ourselves over with intermittent power, the only light you will have is the fkking solar you lashed out on.




Nations around the world are building coal-fired power plants at a faster rate than those being ­decommissioned. The plants under construction reflect a 10 per cent increase to the total global generation powered by coal.

New electricity generated by coal-fired plants will outstrip that which was retired in 2015 and 2016 by a factor of five.

With Australia facing a policy crisis over energy security and the winding back of reliance on coal, construction of new coal-fired power plants was increasing in at least 35 countries, according to data analysis supplied to the ­Nationals by the federal parliamentary library. China has 299 new coal generation units under construction, followed by India which is building 132. Australia’s closest neighbour, Indo­nesia, was planning a further 32.

Nuclear countries, including Japan and South Africa, were also increasing their exposure to coal-powered investment, with 21 new plants between them. Vietnam was building 34.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/world-building-new-coal-plants-...
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #41 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 5:14pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:07pm:
OK smart guys if coal fired power or "clean coal" is all the go then why isn't private enterprise investing in it ??



Because with the intermittency of renewables t can't ramp up fast enough. That's why gas is better in that situation. That's why the cost of gas is going up.

If we weren't so reliant on renewables and coal power was just humming away ten there would be that investment.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #42 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 5:24pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:14pm:
And I presented a counter argument that the Tesla gigafactory was to be carbon neutral so put that in your pipe and smoke it. Maybe ask Elon Musk how to build one instead of taking the word of some obscure article on the internet which only represents the current state of manufacturing technology.



Yes, Somewhere in the "Future". He hasn't promoted a new technology, did you notice that? Maybe he can foresee that their is no breakthrough in battery technology. And as I also said that is the PLAN. Whether he achieves it is another thing.

Batteries are a chemical reaction. They can't get much smaller because the chemicals remain the same. The size remains the same.

BTW - a manufacturing breakthrough on lithium won't achieve anything. As I said it is a scarce resource. We can search for more resources, but we may not find them. And of course searching for more resources will have to utiise fossil fuels. Unless of course they come up with solar powered mining drills.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #43 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 7:05pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:33pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:07pm:
OK smart guys if coal fired power or "clean coal" is all the go then why isn't private enterprise investing in it ??




Only Australia is refusing to invest in base load power the rest of the world isn't run by cretins intimidated by even bigger cretins.


By the time we are done fkking ourselves over with intermittent power, the only light you will have is the fkking solar you lashed out on.




Nations around the world are building coal-fired power plants at a faster rate than those being ­decommissioned. The plants under construction reflect a 10 per cent increase to the total global generation powered by coal.

New electricity generated by coal-fired plants will outstrip that which was retired in 2015 and 2016 by a factor of five.

With Australia facing a policy crisis over energy security and the winding back of reliance on coal, construction of new coal-fired power plants was increasing in at least 35 countries, according to data analysis supplied to the ­Nationals by the federal parliamentary library. China has 299 new coal generation units under construction, followed by India which is building 132. Australia’s closest neighbour, Indo­nesia, was planning a further 32.

Nuclear countries, including Japan and South Africa, were also increasing their exposure to coal-powered investment, with 21 new plants between them. Vietnam was building 34.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/world-building-new-coal-plants-...


so go and build them then. What's the problem ?? Get your mate Tiny Abort to put his short arms in his long pockets and dig deep Cheesy LOL
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #44 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 9:20pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 5:24pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:14pm:
And I presented a counter argument that the Tesla gigafactory was to be carbon neutral so put that in your pipe and smoke it. Maybe ask Elon Musk how to build one instead of taking the word of some obscure article on the internet which only represents the current state of manufacturing technology.



Yes, Somewhere in the "Future". He hasn't promoted a new technology, did you notice that? Maybe he can foresee that their is no breakthrough in battery technology. And as I also said that is the PLAN. Whether he achieves it is another thing.

Batteries are a chemical reaction. They can't get much smaller because the chemicals remain the same. The size remains the same.

BTW - a manufacturing breakthrough on lithium won't achieve anything. As I said it is a scarce resource. We can search for more resources, but we may not find them. And of course searching for more resources will have to utiise fossil fuels. Unless of course they come up with solar powered mining drills.


In case you didn't know Tesla also recycle their own batteries not that that is an issue since the batteries essentially never give trouble contrary to the nay-sayers.









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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #45 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 9:28pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 9:20pm:
In case you didn't know Tesla also recycle their batteries.



Very good. Now factor in all the new batteries that he wants to build with his Gigafactories.

And then of course Toshiba etc.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #46 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 11:34pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 9:28pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 9:20pm:
In case you didn't know Tesla also recycle their batteries.



Very good. Now factor in all the new batteries that he wants to build with his Gigafactories.

And then of course Toshiba etc.


yes yes he will build them.

They can always go back to NiMH batteries they once used before the Chevron oil crooks bought out the patent and put it to sleep Sad


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #47 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:11am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 7:05pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:33pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:07pm:
OK smart guys if coal fired power or "clean coal" is all the go then why isn't private enterprise investing in it ??




Only Australia is refusing to invest in base load power the rest of the world isn't run by cretins intimidated by even bigger cretins.


By the time we are done fkking ourselves over with intermittent power, the only light you will have is the fkking solar you lashed out on.




Nations around the world are building coal-fired power plants at a faster rate than those being ­decommissioned. The plants under construction reflect a 10 per cent increase to the total global generation powered by coal.

New electricity generated by coal-fired plants will outstrip that which was retired in 2015 and 2016 by a factor of five.

With Australia facing a policy crisis over energy security and the winding back of reliance on coal, construction of new coal-fired power plants was increasing in at least 35 countries, according to data analysis supplied to the ­Nationals by the federal parliamentary library. China has 299 new coal generation units under construction, followed by India which is building 132. Australia’s closest neighbour, Indo­nesia, was planning a further 32.

Nuclear countries, including Japan and South Africa, were also increasing their exposure to coal-powered investment, with 21 new plants between them. Vietnam was building 34.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/world-building-new-coal-plants-...


so go and build them then. What's the problem ?? Get your mate Tiny Abort to put his short arms in his long pockets and dig deep Cheesy LOL



You need to learn when you have been pummeled in an argument, so you will also learn to shut the fkk up and walk away.   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin




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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #48 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:17am
 
yeh right. no one is listening to you bozos. all you lot do is come up with a whole lot of lame excuses not to change anything. The Germans are certainly not listening to you halfwits. Too bad Holden and Ford didn't take my advice years ago and invested in EV's now they are history.

Quote:
Frankfurt Show: Electric and eclectic, cars go full-throttle into the future


A struggling German car industry is attempting to recharge at the Frankfurt Show, revealing plans to convert entire lines to electric and battery-fuelled vehicles.

The first Frankfurt motor show since Volkswagen was exposed as a diesel emissions cheat has opened with electric cars ­starring on almost every stand.

Volkswagen responded to the emissions scandal with a strategy known as i“Roadmap E” — it ­expects to offer 80 new electric ­vehicles by 2025 and be selling about three million a year.

With brands including Audi, Porsche and Bentley in the Volkswagen group, the target is to offer an electric version of each of its 300 group models by 2030. More than €20 billion ($29.8bn) has been earmarked for development and €50bn to procure batteries.

Chief executive Matthias Mueller said Volkswagen had to lead, not follow. “This is not some vague declaration of intent,” he said. “It is a strong self-commitment which, from today, becomes the yardstick by which we ­measure our performance.

“The transformation in our industry is unstoppable. And we will lead that transformation.”

Mercedes-Benz plans to have electrification in its entire fleet — more than 50 vehicles — by 2022.

Smart, a sister brand of Mer­cedes, will abandon the combustion engine in Europe and North America by 2020 and will spearhead the company’s move into autonomous car-sharing.

Mercedes-Benz chief Dieter Zetsche agreed there had been “a loss of trust in the German car industry’s power of innovation and sustainability” but said diesel was a vital part of the transition to a zero-emissions future.

“We need diesel if we are to achieve our climate targets through less CO2 in road traffic,” he said, and even the fuel’s toughest critics admitted Mercedes ­latest diesel engines were clean.

Mercedes is investing €10bn in developing battery cars.

Under its own badge, centrestage of Mercedes stand at Frankfurt was the electric EQA, a streamlined compact car with two electric motors, up to 200kW of power and all-wheel drive.

It will be one of 10 pure EVs in its line-up within five years. First on sale will be the EQC. An SUV similar in size to Mercedes GLC, it arrives in Australia in 2019 with a starting price above $75,000.

BMW’s centrepiece was the i Vision Dynamics, a study for a mid-size luxury four-door with pure electric power, a 600km range and supercar performance. It is likely to be badged i5. Development chief Klaus Froehlich said: “We will sell more than 100,000 electrified vehicles this year alone.”

Stepping up the pace, BMW has targeted 25 electrified cars by 2025, with half of those pure EVs, and IT will build flexibility into ­future models so that any driveline — combustion engine, plug-in hybrid or battery — can be fitted according to demand.




http://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/motoring/frankfurt-show-electric-and-eclect...



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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:24am by Sir lastnail »  

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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #49 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 11:08am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 11:34pm:
yes yes he will build them.



That wasn't and isn't the point. The point was and is whether the plant will be emissions free as he plans.

Quite apart from the limited lithium resource.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #50 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 11:22am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:17am:
The Germans are certainly not listening to you halfwits.


Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:17am:
Mercedes-Benz plans to have electrification in its entire fleet — more than 50 vehicles — by 2022.


Plans - again. Plans can change.
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:17am:
Mercedes-Benz chief Dieter Zetsche agreed there had been “a loss of trust in the German car industry’s power of innovation and sustainability” but said diesel was a vital part of the transition to a zero-emissions future.

“We need diesel if we are to achieve our climate targets through less CO2 in road traffic,” he said, and even the fuel’s toughest critics admitted Mercedes ­latest diesel engines were clean.


More plans.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:17am:
Mercedes is investing €10bn in developing battery cars.


Yes. Back to batteries, that will have a supply issue  unless there is a new technology breakthrough.


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #51 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 11:25am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 11:34pm:
They can always go back to NiMH batteries they once used before the Chevron oil crooks bought out the patent and put it to sleep



"In 2001, oil company Texaco purchased General Motors' share in GM Ovonics. Texaco was itself acquired by rival Chevron several months later. The same year, Ovonics filed a patent infringement suit against Toyota's battery supplier, Panasonic, that led to a negotiated settlement in 2004. The agreement included extensive cross-licensing of each company's patents, a joint research venture to improve nickel hydride battery technology, and restrictions on Panasonic's use of its large format NiMH batteries for certain transportation uses until 2007."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batter...

I think it is well past 2007.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #52 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 11:33am
 
more -

"The metal M in the negative electrode of a NiMH cell is an intermetallic compound. Many different compounds have been developed for this application, but those in current use fall into two classes. The most common is AB5, where A is a rare-earth mixture of lanthanum, cerium, neodymium, praseodymium, and B is nickel, cobalt, manganese, or aluminium. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93metal_hydride_battery

Neodymium rears its ugly head again.

"Lithium-ion batteries have a higher specific energy than nickel–metal hydride batteries,[33] but they are significantly more expensive"

ibid

So lithium gives more bang but costs more. Which would mean recharging more often, less range.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #53 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:09pm
 
Greeny dreams of Australia as an industry free basket weaving economy still exist in the minds of the gullible impractical Greeny types.

Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future just like the rest of the world is doing.

All electric cars will always be a very limited market mainly due to the long recharge times and ever present fear of a flat battery.

Hydrogen can also be used to power large semi trailers which all electric CANNOT and this alone will guarantee Hydrogen will predominant.

Hydrogen is pollution free as it emits only steam and can be produced in electrolyzers from water and can be powered by the unstable erratic output from renewable rubbish as these are useless for anything else.


What is the resale value of an all electric car ?  Not flamin' much as the battery is shot and costs about $10,000 to replace.



And just look at the dog's breakfast that Sth Aust has become with all their renewable rubbish white elephants

...



And did you ever wonder just what the wacky Greenies really want Australia to be reduced to ? An industry free basket weaving subsistence economy!!!!!!

...
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #54 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:30pm
 
This has happened because we never invested time & money
into a Thorium molten salt reactor.
There was no foresight - no vision in Australia from our politicians.


Also - the French company that bought Hazelwood ran it into the ground -
to get it back up working again would cost $750 million.
Old story - privatise electricity & the corporate thieves & bean counters wreck it.
They could have tried to keep it running with cleaner coal from Newcastle
instead of that stinking brown coal but
none of those over paid half wits in parliament thought of that.
We needed Hazelwood for at least another 10 years until we find an alternative.

Now we're staring into the face of power blackouts this summer.
The politicians & the French thieves should all be in jail.
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:36pm by Bobby. »  
 
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #55 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 11:08am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 11:34pm:
yes yes he will build them.



That wasn't and isn't the point. The point was and is whether the plant will be emissions free as he plans.

Quite apart from the limited lithium resource.


Why wouldn't it ? For a start there is no gas line into the plant. Secondly the rooftop is awash with solar PV arrays along with additional fields of solar PV arrays. Thirdly the plant will be able to recycle the lithium batteries if need be. It's a win win for the environment.

These are things which no traditional manufacturer bothers to do.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #56 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:37pm
 
juliar wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:09pm:
Greeny dreams of Australia as an industry free basket weaving economy still exist in the minds of the gullible impractical Greeny types.

Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future just like the rest of the world is doing.

All electric cars will always be a very limited market mainly due to the long recharge times and ever present fear of a flat battery.

Hydrogen can also be used to power large semi trailers which all electric CANNOT and this alone will guarantee Hydrogen will predominant.

Hydrogen is pollution free as it emits only steam and can be produced in electrolyzers from water and can be powered by the unstable erratic output from renewable rubbish as these are useless for anything else.


What is the resale value of an all electric car ?  Not flamin' much as the battery is shot and costs about $10,000 to replace.



Keep it up socko. Nobody outside of Australia is listening to your sh.t. The german car companies are moving full steam ahead into electrics and so are the chinese, the british and the french whilst Australian car manufacturers are closing down. What does that tell you socko ?? You lot got it wrong big time !!
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #57 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:38pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
This has happened because we never invested time & money
into a Thorium molten salt reactor.
There was no foresight - no vision in Australia from our politicians.


Also - the French company that bought Hazelwood ran it into the ground -
to get it back up working again would cost $750 million.
Old story - privatise electricity & the corporate thieves & bean counters wreck it.
They could have tried to keep it running with cleaner coal from Newcastle
instead of that stinking brown coal but
none of those over paid half wits in parliament thought of that.
We needed Hazelwood for at least another 10 years until we find an alternative.

Now we're staring into the face of power blackouts this summer.
The politicians & the French thieves should all be in jail.


the big question is why didn't they build another coal fired power plant to replace it if it's so lucrative. Maybe socko can tell us Cheesy LOL
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #58 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:41pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
This has happened because we never invested time & money
into a Thorium molten salt reactor.
There was no foresight - no vision in Australia from our politicians.


Also - the French company that bought Hazelwood ran it into the ground -
to get it back up working again would cost $750 million.
Old story - privatise electricity & the corporate thieves & bean counters wreck it.
They could have tried to keep it running with cleaner coal from Newcastle
instead of that stinking brown coal but
none of those over paid half wits in parliament thought of that.
We needed Hazelwood for at least another 10 years until we find an alternative.

Now we're staring into the face of power blackouts this summer.
The politicians & the French thieves should all be in jail.


the big question is why didn't they build another coal fired power plant to replace it if it's so lucrative Cheesy LOL



sir Nail,
unfortunately we still needed the coal plant because
there was no replacement for Hazelwood.

It looks like we'll now have to pay to put Hazelwood back on line.
Tax payers to the rescue or no power this summer.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #59 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:45pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 11:25am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 11:34pm:
They can always go back to NiMH batteries they once used before the Chevron oil crooks bought out the patent and put it to sleep



"In 2001, oil company Texaco purchased General Motors' share in GM Ovonics. Texaco was itself acquired by rival Chevron several months later. The same year, Ovonics filed a patent infringement suit against Toyota's battery supplier, Panasonic, that led to a negotiated settlement in 2004. The agreement included extensive cross-licensing of each company's patents, a joint research venture to improve nickel hydride battery technology, and restrictions on Panasonic's use of its large format NiMH batteries for certain transportation uses until 2007."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batter...

I think it is well past 2007.


Yes they sat on it for as long as they could to stifle the EV industry but by that time everyone had gone to lithium. Perhaps there maybe a resurgence in NiMH if there are these alleged shortages in lithium so there will never be an issue with battery supplies Wink
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #60 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:53pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:30pm:
This has happened because we never invested time & money
into a Thorium molten salt reactor.
There was no foresight - no vision in Australia from our politicians.


Also - the French company that bought Hazelwood ran it into the ground -
to get it back up working again would cost $750 million.
Old story - privatise electricity & the corporate thieves & bean counters wreck it.
They could have tried to keep it running with cleaner coal from Newcastle
instead of that stinking brown coal but
none of those over paid half wits in parliament thought of that.
We needed Hazelwood for at least another 10 years until we find an alternative.

Now we're staring into the face of power blackouts this summer.
The politicians & the French thieves should all be in jail.


the big question is why didn't they build another coal fired power plant to replace it if it's so lucrative. Maybe socko can tell us Cheesy LOL



Because a lot of people are total fkking moreons, much like you good self and they believe that solar and wind generation id good enough for base load power now. It's only the libbo luddites stopping it, not the fkking science.

The fact that not other first word industrialised country uses intermittent, solar / wind power for base load power and are building coal fired plants and an enormous rate say a lot bout the fkking cretin running this country and those who support them.


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #61 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:56pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:34pm:
Why wouldn't it ? For a start there is no gas line into the plant. Secondly the rooftop is awash with solar PV arrays along with additional fields of solar PV arrays. Thirdly the plant will be able to recycle the lithium batteries if need be. It's a win win for the environment.


But there is a gas line to the boundary. It just isn't connected. It can be a a later date.

"TRIC built high-pressure natural gas lines to its sites".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_1

What will be the maximum current draw at full operational capacity? What is the current capability of the array?

"In 2014 Navigant estimated 100 MW electricity delivery which could be supplied (on average) by nearby wind turbines and roof solar panels,[81] whereas a former Tesla logistics manager in 2016 estimated 300 MW to produce 35 GWh of battery capacity per year.[82]"

ibid

"As of 2014, the projected capacity of Gigafactory for 2020 was to have been 35 gigawatt-hours per year of cells as well as 50 gigawatt-hours per year (5.7 MW) of battery packs.[15] Production could be equivalent of supplying 500,000 Tesla cars per year.[19][86][112] When finished, the factory is planned to produce more lithium ion batteries in a year than were produced in the entire world in 2013."

ibid




Recycling lithium batteries will supply how much of the proposed output of the Gigafactory? One month, two? The rest will be from the new, limited resource.


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #62 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 1:01pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:45pm:
Perhaps there maybe a resurgence in NiMH if there are these alleged shortages in lithium so there will never be an issue with battery supplies



Yes. less capacity, less distance, less speed. And don't forget the nasty neodymium, that's also used in the super-magnets in the wind generators.

Have you checked on neodymium pollution?
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #63 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 3:04pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:45pm:
if there are these alleged shortages in lithium



Or of course there is this Stanford University paper -

"If we would like to have a North American standard of living for everyone in the world – say, 1 car for every 2 people – then we would need about 3.4 billion Nissan Leafs. This would use 32% of the identified resources (all known lithium in the world), or 82% of the reserves (all lithium that is currently economic to produce). Even with widespread recycling, that seems like an unsustainable prospect."

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/

"Chile faces similar pressure. "Like any mining process," said Guillen Mo Gonzalez, leader of a Chilean lithium delegation, "it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and pollutes the earth and the local wells. This isn't a green solution. It's not a solution at all."

At Stanford University, in 2010, physics student Eric Eason, determined that known lithium reserves, some ten billion kilograms, could supply the batteries for about four billion electric vehicles. However, not all of this reserve is recoverable, and current production is used for phones, computers, camcorders, cameras, satellites, construction, pharmaceuticals, ceramics and glass. Since the demand for lithium is growing in all sectors, including Tesla's plans for car batteries and household battery units, we might assume a quarter of the world reserve, a massive mining and processing project, could supply perhaps one billion electric vehicles. This could replace the global vehicle fleet, but only once. Eason concluded that converting the world's fleet to electric vehicles ".. seems like an unsustainable prospect." Of course, there may be options that don't use lithium, but every industrial approach that increases resource consumption faces limits and carries the costs of carbon emissions, pollution, land use and social impact."

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/the-tesla-drea...
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #64 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 8:20pm
 
AGL is only thinking of profits you thickhead!
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #65 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:46am
 
lee wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 3:04pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:45pm:
if there are these alleged shortages in lithium



Or of course there is this Stanford University paper -

"If we would like to have a North American standard of living for everyone in the world – say, 1 car for every 2 people – then we would need about 3.4 billion Nissan Leafs. This would use 32% of the identified resources (all known lithium in the world), or 82% of the reserves (all lithium that is currently economic to produce). Even with widespread recycling, that seems like an unsustainable prospect."

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/eason2/

"Chile faces similar pressure. "Like any mining process," said Guillen Mo Gonzalez, leader of a Chilean lithium delegation, "it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and pollutes the earth and the local wells. This isn't a green solution. It's not a solution at all."

At Stanford University, in 2010, physics student Eric Eason, determined that known lithium reserves, some ten billion kilograms, could supply the batteries for about four billion electric vehicles. However, not all of this reserve is recoverable, and current production is used for phones, computers, camcorders, cameras, satellites, construction, pharmaceuticals, ceramics and glass. Since the demand for lithium is growing in all sectors, including Tesla's plans for car batteries and household battery units, we might assume a quarter of the world reserve, a massive mining and processing project, could supply perhaps one billion electric vehicles. This could replace the global vehicle fleet, but only once. Eason concluded that converting the world's fleet to electric vehicles ".. seems like an unsustainable prospect." Of course, there may be options that don't use lithium, but every industrial approach that increases resource consumption faces limits and carries the costs of carbon emissions, pollution, land use and social impact."

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/the-tesla-drea...


According to this report there are NO problems with supply of lithium for a long long time nor is it the environmental hazard that you lot carry on with. Funny how anything else mined out of the ground for a profit is never a problem with you lot except for lithium of course. You'd think you'd be celebrating the new frontiers in mining lithium but it seems to be a case of chicken little. Go figure !!


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #66 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:49am
 
lee wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 1:01pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:45pm:
Perhaps there maybe a resurgence in NiMH if there are these alleged shortages in lithium so there will never be an issue with battery supplies



Yes. less capacity, less distance, less speed. And don't forget the nasty neodymium, that's also used in the super-magnets in the wind generators.

Have you checked on neodymium pollution?


Have you checked on the pollution generated building fossil fool cars or mining the rare earths used in catalytic converters etc ?? Never heard you complain about that once. Somehow its never a problem when its associated with setting fire to oil or coal Cheesy LOL
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #67 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:40am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:46am:
According to this report there are NO problems with supply of lithium for a long long time nor is it the environmental hazard that you lot carry on with.



The piece you quoted gave NO timeline. It also only addressed car and household batteries, NOT commercial scale batteries like the SA proposition. Do you think commercial batteries would have an impact?

You also obviously missed this bit - "it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and pollutes the earth and the local wells. This isn't a green solution. It's not a solution at all."

According to -
https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/energy-investing/lithium-inve...
February 27, 2017

Reserves are now 12.5 billion tons, up from my earlier post from 2010, of 9.9 billion tons.


But of course it is much easier to listen to youtube. We know if it is on youtube it must be correct. Wink
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #68 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:44am
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:40am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:46am:
According to this report there are NO problems with supply of lithium for a long long time nor is it the environmental hazard that you lot carry on with.



The piece you quoted gave NO timeline. It also only addressed car and household batteries, NOT commercial scale batteries like the SA proposition. Do you think commercial batteries would have an impact?

You also obviously missed this bit - "it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and pollutes the earth and the local wells. This isn't a green solution. It's not a solution at all."

According to -
https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/energy-investing/lithium-inve...
February 27, 2017

Reserves are now 12.5 billion tons, up from my earlier post from 2010, of 9.9 billion tons.


But of course it is much easier to listen to YouTube. We know if it is on youtube it must be correct. Wink



When it comes to nail's academic capacity there is no difference between a YouTube video and a peer reviewed scientific paper, in fact the chances are he will always go with YouTube for all his science and technology needs.

The man is a dolt
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #69 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:54am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:49am:
Have you checked on the pollution generated building fossil fool cars or mining the rare earths used in catalytic converters etc ?? Never heard you complain about that once. Never heard you complain about that once. Somehow its never a problem when its associated with setting fire to oil or coal


So you want to swap pollution types?

Which pollutions are you talking about in oil and coal? Not rare earth's surely.?




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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #70 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:17pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:40am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:46am:
According to this report there are NO problems with supply of lithium for a long long time nor is it the environmental hazard that you lot carry on with.



The piece you quoted gave NO timeline. It also only addressed car and household batteries, NOT commercial scale batteries like the SA proposition. Do you think commercial batteries would have an impact?

You also obviously missed this bit - "it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and pollutes the earth and the local wells. This isn't a green solution. It's not a solution at all."

According to -
https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/energy-investing/lithium-inve...
February 27, 2017

Reserves are now 12.5 billion tons, up from my earlier post from 2010, of 9.9 billion tons.


But of course it is much easier to listen to youtube. We know if it is on youtube it must be correct. Wink


But of course it's only an environmental issue when it's used in batteries for EV's. When you libbos use your lithium powered smart phones, tablets or laptops then it's never an environmental issue of course Cheesy LOL

And of course NiMH batteries don't have the range for you even though you would never walk the 200k's range on a hot day would you ??


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #71 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:54am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:49am:
Have you checked on the pollution generated building fossil fool cars or mining the rare earths used in catalytic converters etc ?? Never heard you complain about that once. Never heard you complain about that once. Somehow its never a problem when its associated with setting fire to oil or coal


So you want to swap pollution types?

Which pollutions are you talking about in oil and coal? Not rare earth's surely.?



No I want it reduced drastically Wink

BTW have you calculated the well to wheels efficiency of your fossil fool junk heap yet ?? Let me know when you come up with a figure and the GHG emissions Wink
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #72 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:22pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:44am:
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:40am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:46am:
According to this report there are NO problems with supply of lithium for a long long time nor is it the environmental hazard that you lot carry on with.



The piece you quoted gave NO timeline. It also only addressed car and household batteries, NOT commercial scale batteries like the SA proposition. Do you think commercial batteries would have an impact?

You also obviously missed this bit - "it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and pollutes the earth and the local wells. This isn't a green solution. It's not a solution at all."

According to -
https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/energy-investing/lithium-inve...
February 27, 2017

Reserves are now 12.5 billion tons, up from my earlier post from 2010, of 9.9 billion tons.


But of course it is much easier to listen to YouTube. We know if it is on youtube it must be correct. Wink



When it comes to nail's academic capacity there is no difference between a YouTube video and a peer reviewed scientific paper, in fact the chances are he will always go with YouTube for all his science and technology needs.

The man is a dolt


well we know where all of your brain cells went don't we Cheesy LOL
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #73 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:28pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:22pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:44am:
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 11:40am:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 10:46am:
According to this report there are NO problems with supply of lithium for a long long time nor is it the environmental hazard that you lot carry on with.



The piece you quoted gave NO timeline. It also only addressed car and household batteries, NOT commercial scale batteries like the SA proposition. Do you think commercial batteries would have an impact?

You also obviously missed this bit - "it is invasive, it scars the landscape, it destroys the water table and pollutes the earth and the local wells. This isn't a green solution. It's not a solution at all."

According to -
https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/energy-investing/lithium-inve...
February 27, 2017

Reserves are now 12.5 billion tons, up from my earlier post from 2010, of 9.9 billion tons.


But of course it is much easier to listen to YouTube. We know if it is on youtube it must be correct. Wink



When it comes to nail's academic capacity there is no difference between a YouTube video and a peer reviewed scientific paper, in fact the chances are he will always go with YouTube for all his science and technology needs.

The man is a dolt


well we know where all of your brain cells went don't we Cheesy LOL



You must have spent a good couple of hours work-shopping that insult out with your fellow pre-preschoolers.  Grin Grin


You are without a doubt the single most uneducated dullard this board has ever had to suffer, bar no-one.


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #74 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:29pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:17pm:
But of course it's only an environmental issue when it's used in batteries for EV's. When you libbos use your lithium powered smart phones, tablets or laptops then it's never an environmental issue of course



You are delusional. Keep making sh!t up. It is an environmental issue whichever way you go.
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #75 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:33pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
No I want it reduced drastically



You want what reduced drastically? If you are talking pollution then you would need to cite some references on how they compare.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
BTW have you calculated the well to wheels efficiency of your fossil fool junk heap yet ?? Let me know when you come up with a figure and the GHG emissions


You're the one wants something reduced drastically. Show us your figures for the savings. Wink
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #76 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:39pm
 
BTW - your youtube -
"Ben Sullins

Data Geek at Teslanomic"

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bensullins

merely an advertorial. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #77 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 5:37pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:33pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
No I want it reduced drastically



You want what reduced drastically? If you are talking pollution then you would need to cite some references on how they compare.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
BTW have you calculated the well to wheels efficiency of your fossil fool junk heap yet ?? Let me know when you come up with a figure and the GHG emissions


You're the one wants something reduced drastically. Show us your figures for the savings. Wink


Why are you libbos as dumb as dog sh.t ? Cheesy LOL


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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #78 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 5:38pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 5:37pm:
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:33pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
No I want it reduced drastically



You want what reduced drastically? If you are talking pollution then you would need to cite some references on how they compare.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
BTW have you calculated the well to wheels efficiency of your fossil fool junk heap yet ?? Let me know when you come up with a figure and the GHG emissions


You're the one wants something reduced drastically. Show us your figures for the savings. Wink


Why are you libbos as dumb as dog sh.t ? Cheesy LOL





Oh good comeback. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
Reply #79 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 6:00pm
 
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 5:38pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 5:37pm:
lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:33pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
No I want it reduced drastically



You want what reduced drastically? If you are talking pollution then you would need to cite some references on how they compare.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 1:21pm:
BTW have you calculated the well to wheels efficiency of your fossil fool junk heap yet ?? Let me know when you come up with a figure and the GHG emissions


You're the one wants something reduced drastically. Show us your figures for the savings. Wink


Why are you libbos as dumb as dog sh.t ? Cheesy LOL





Oh good comeback. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


All you libbos have the following characteristics:-
  • As dumb as dogshit
  • Know-alls know nothings
  • Pretends to be experts on climate science without having studied anything but as dumb as dogshit on any other scientific matters
  • Intellectual nobodies
  • Luddite mentality
  • Denial of reality
  • No respect for knowledge
  • Year 7 education and yet purports to know more on climate science than University qualified people with years of experience
  • Resists technological change especially when it benefits the consumer economically and environmentally
  • Fixated with ripping everyone off on their energy needs
  • Wants everyone to take it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser forever
  • OK with ripping people off by selling them inherently unreliable fossil fool junk which requires perpetual costly service and maintenance
  • Always puts profits before the environment and pretends there is no environmental impact  so justifies their actions


  • Why are you libbos like this ?





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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #80 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 6:18pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 6:00pm:
    All you libbos have the following characteristics:-
    As dumb as dogshit
    Know-alls know nothings
    Pretends to be experts on climate science without having studied anything but as dumb as dogshit on any other scientific matters
    Intellectual nobodies
    Luddite mentality
    Denial of reality
    No respect for knowledge
    Year 7 education and yet purports to know more on climate science than University qualified people with years of experience
    Resists technological change especially when it benefits the consumer economically and environmentally
    Fixated with ripping everyone off on their energy needs
    Wants everyone to take it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser forever
    OK with ripping people off by selling them inherently unreliable fossil fool junk which requires perpetual costly service and maintenance
    Always puts profits before the environment and pretends there is no environmental impact  so justifies their actions


    Why are you libbos like this ?






    And yet you are the one making claims as to the amount of pollution relative to CO2; and yet you haven't quantified it. Why is that?

    Could it be you a merely a blowhard? A person who knows nothing? A person who relies on MSM for their "reality"?
    You haven't shown any knowledge.

    You have many things in your list. How reliable are your electric vehicles? What is its resale value, as opposed to its purchase price?

    I particularly like this one -

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 6:00pm:
    Year 7 education and yet purports to know more on climate science than University qualified people with years of experience



    And yet there are climate scientists out there who don't subscribe to the AGW meme. Why is that? Are they all in thrall to the fossil fuel cartel? You know the ones like Exxon that suddenly the AG's of the various states in the US are fleeing from, because Exxon started to fight back?

    I have finished wasting time on you. Bye.

    And that's the reality.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #81 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 8:23pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 6:18pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 6:00pm:
    All you libbos have the following characteristics:-
    As dumb as dogshit
    Know-alls know nothings
    Pretends to be experts on climate science without having studied anything but as dumb as dogshit on any other scientific matters
    Intellectual nobodies
    Luddite mentality
    Denial of reality
    No respect for knowledge
    Year 7 education and yet purports to know more on climate science than University qualified people with years of experience
    Resists technological change especially when it benefits the consumer economically and environmentally
    Fixated with ripping everyone off on their energy needs
    Wants everyone to take it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser forever
    OK with ripping people off by selling them inherently unreliable fossil fool junk which requires perpetual costly service and maintenance
    Always puts profits before the environment and pretends there is no environmental impact  so justifies their actions


    Why are you libbos like this ?






    And yet you are the one making claims as to the amount of pollution relative to CO2; and yet you haven't quantified it. Why is that?

    Could it be you a merely a blowhard? A person who knows nothing? A person who relies on MSM for their "reality"?
    You haven't shown any knowledge.

    You have many things in your list. How reliable are your electric vehicles? What is its resale value, as opposed to its purchase price?

    I particularly like this one -

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 6:00pm:
    Year 7 education and yet purports to know more on climate science than University qualified people with years of experience



    And yet there are climate scientists out there who don't subscribe to the AGW meme. Why is that? Are they all in thrall to the fossil fuel cartel? You know the ones like Exxon that suddenly the AG's of the various states in the US are fleeing from, because Exxon started to fight back?

    I have finished wasting time on you. Bye.

    And that's the reality.


    Yes you should bugger off because you keep playing the same old denialist scratched record. In a nutshell this is how all of your arguments can be reduced too:-

    "I the liberal stooge refuse to acknowledge AGW in the light of the huge weight of evidence to the contrary, therefore it is OK to set fire to the remaining reserves of fossil fools with no adverse effects to the environment and humanity !!"

    "AGW cannot possibly exist because there are a lot of people with vested interests who stand to lose a lot of money from the drop in revenue from the lost sales of fossil fools !!"


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #82 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 8:42pm
     
    Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #83 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:17am
     
    Sounds like the gullible old Greeny lostSnail has finally lost it and the argument.

    These Greeny types are all the same, come on with a flurry and finally disappear disappointed and disillusioned as the TRUTH finally sinks in.


    NO GLOBAL WARMING for 19 years now.

    But it is doubtful if the poorly educated Greeny types can count that high!!!!

    After all, their time at school was wasted learning Greeny Socialist Indoctrination instead of being properly educated in the STEM subjects.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #84 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:18am
     
    Unfortunately for LostNail, he didn't realise that at the point he stopped pursuing his argument, and came up with a cornucopia of perceived grievances against anybody who disagreed with him, he had lost the debate.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #85 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:40am
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:17am:
    Sounds like the gullible old Greeny lostSnail has finally lost it and the argument.

    These Greeny types are all the same, come on with a flurry and finally disappear disappointed and disillusioned as the TRUTH finally sinks in.


    NO GLOBAL WARMING for 19 years now.

    But it is doubtful if the poorly educated Greeny types can count that high!!!!

    After all, their time at school was wasted learning Greeny Socialist Indoctrination instead of being properly educated in the STEM subjects.


    That's all that matters to you socko is your distorted perceptions of whether or not someone has lost an argument which btw is a trait that your alter ego longprong58 had. You get some sort of ego gratification gained from thinking that you have won an argument when you never do Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #86 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:44am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:18am:
    Unfortunately for LostNail, he didn't realise that at the point he stopped pursuing his argument, and came up with a cornucopia of perceived grievances against anybody who disagreed with him, he had lost the debate.


    Dream on sunshine. I provided evidence of Teslas goal of producing a practical zero net emissions lithium battery plant and instead you want to hang off the words of some obscure report which essentially only describes conventional manufacturing techniques. And now you want to claim that you have won the argument Cheesy LOL

    Like I said you libbos are as dumb as dogshit and totally resistant to change when it comes to competing renewable energy technologies.

    The good thing about the rest of the world is that they obviously are not as dumb and stupid as Australia trying to buy back an old clapped out coal fired power plant way past its used by date. How dumb is that. Only the libbos could pull off a stunt like that Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #87 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:55am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:44am:
    lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:18am:
    Unfortunately for LostNail, he didn't realise that at the point he stopped pursuing his argument, and came up with a cornucopia of perceived grievances against anybody who disagreed with him, he had lost the debate.


    Dream on sunshine. I provided evidence of Teslas goal of producing a practical zero net emissions lithium battery plant and instead you want to hang off the words of some obscure report which essentially only describes conventional manufacturing techniques. And now you want to claim that you have won the argument Cheesy LOL

    Like I said you libbos are as dumb as dogshit and totally resistant to change when it comes to competing renewable energy technologies.

    The good thing about the rest of the world is that they obviously are not as dumb and stupid as Australia trying to buy back an old clapped out coal fired power plant way past its used by date. How dumb is that. Only the libbos could pull off a stunt like that Cheesy LOL



    No, they are building hundreds and hundreds of new High Energy Low Emissions base load power plant and no-one is wasting precious time trying to delude the population that intermittent power from solar and wing is anything but intermittent power.


    We are trying to keep old plants going because of people like you and the labor party who refuse to acknowledge these basic truths.


    We don't need some magical tesla bullsh1t from the future we need base load power now.


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #88 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 12:57pm
     
    LostSnail,

    what does it feel like to have LOST the ARGUMENT like all Greeny types do ?

    You are just like some other Greeny types that came here and tried and failed to push their Global Warming dribble.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now.

    What will the Greeny Types do with all their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE ?

    The evil Greenies are poisoning the planet with their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE!!!




    Can’t slip old solar panels into the compost heap. A toxic cadmium, lead headache coming?

    So having some solar waste panels lying around is not exactly like having a second-hand nuclear fuel rod in the basement, but there will be Gigatons-to-Go, the volume is spectacular, and we can’t eat cadmium for breakfast. There will literally be a mountain of toxic garbage — and only Europe, apparently, has a rule about solar manufacturers having to collect and figure out what to do with the solar waste. (And with a 25 year lifespan, how much, exactly, is even that worth? Just say “Solyndra“.)

    A new study from a group called Environmental Progress shows that solar panels make 300 times more volume of toxic waste/megajoule as nukes do. All estimates like these are based on assumptions and guesses, so perhaps it’s not that bad. The study might be exaggerated, and maybe solar panels are only 100 times larger in volume than nukes eh? Where’s the Green outcry.

    ...
    Materials, throughput for solar versus nuclear, waste, toxic, graph.

    Study: Solar panels a looming toxic ‘crisis’
    Discarded solar panels, piling up around the world, are detrimental to the environment, according to a new study by Environmental Progress.
    And carcinogenic.
    And teratogenic.

    While environmentalist have warned for decades of the hazard of nuclear power, solar panels produce 300 times more toxic waste per unity of energy than nuclear power plants, warns Berkeley, California-based EP.

    Discarded solar panels not only contain lead, but chromium and cadmium – both of which are carcinogenic.

    The Study comes from Environmental Progress:
    Last November, Japan’s Environment Ministry issued a stark warning: the amount of solar panel waste Japan produces every year will rise from 10,000 to 800,000 tons by 2040, and the nation has no plan for safely disposing of it.

    A recent report found that it would take 19 years for Toshiba Environmental Solutions to finish recycling all of the solar waste Japan produced by 2020. By 2034, the annual waste production will be 70 – 80 times larger than that of 2020.

    Environmental Progress investigated the problem to see how the problem compared to the much more high-profile issue of nuclear waste.

    We found:

    Solar panels create 300 times more toxic waste per unit of energy than do nuclear power plants.

    If solar and nuclear produce the same amount of electricity over the next 25 years that nuclear produced in 2016, and the wastes are stacked on football fields, the nuclear waste would reach the height of the Leaning Tower of Pisa (52 meters), while the solar waste would reach the height of two Mt. Everests (16 km).

    In countries like China, India, and Ghana, communities living near e-waste dumps often burn the waste in order to salvage the valuable copper wires for resale. Since this process requires burning off the plastic, the resulting smoke contains toxic fumes that are carcinogenic and teratogenic (birth defect-causing) when inhaled.

    If you wonder about the validity of the assumptions (fair enough) check out the Environmental Progress blog. There are some pretty aggressive critics, and some very informed replies (and more in that chain). Look for responses from Michael Shellenberger and Jemin Desai and Mark Nelson (the latter two are the authors).

    http://joannenova.com.au/2017/07/cant-slip-old-solar-panels-into-the-compost-hea...


    Some of the 61 comments to Can’t slip old solar panels into the compost heap. A toxic cadmium, lead headache coming?

    bemused July 3, 2017 at 8:18 am
    Always the unintended consequences, just like fluorescent light bulbs. That is, they are rarely considered.


    sophocles July 3, 2017 at 1:25 pm
    An unreliable electricity supply, as in SA, is going to turn recycling all those PV cells into a right song and dance. Japan is already aware of the looming problem, because, as pointed out, they can’t be just stacked up and left, nor can they be smashed into small pieces and buried in a land fill. No way.

    Toshiba Environmental Solutions, based in Yokohama, southwest of Tokyo, also has technology that can separate solar cells from glass. It has recycled about 30,000 solar panels so far and can handle about 3,500 panels per month, or about 44 tons by weight.

    And that’s just a drop in the bucket, with 800,000 tons of panels per month forecast for disposal in Japan by 2040.

    Toshiba Environmental Solutions’ method grinds the cells into a fine powder, whereas NPC’s leaves behind a sheet of cells.
    “The powdered cells have a high silver content and smelting companies buy it at high prices,” said Shinji Takeda, vice president of Toshiba Environmental Solutions. “Because it is a dry process, and the technology uses neither solvents nor heat, the environmental burden is also low.”

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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #89 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 1:22pm
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 12:57pm:
    LostSnail,

    what does it feel like to have LOST the ARGUMENT like all Greeny types do ?

    You are just like some other Greeny types that came here and tried and failed to push their Global Warming dribble.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now.

    What will the Greeny Types do with all their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE ?



    As opposed to the regular disposal of toxic carcinogenic sump oil from the 1 billion cars and trucks around the world !

    And where do those 1 billion lead acid batteries end up after 4 years of use ?

    Give it a break socko Cheesy LOL


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    « Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2017 at 3:26pm by Sir lastnail »  

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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #90 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 2:59pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:44am:
    I provided evidence of Teslas goal of producing a practical zero net emissions lithium battery plan



    So according to you there are no emissions, pollution during lithium battery production.

    "Toyota admits that the production of its lightweight Prius requires more energy and emits more carbon dioxide than the production of its gas-only models"

    "The production of lithium-ion batteries account for 2 to 5 percent of total lifetime hybrid emissions and nickel-hydride batteries are responsible for higher sulfur oxide emissions, roughly 22 pounds (10 kilograms) per hybrid compared with 2.2 pounds (about 1 kilogram) for a conventional vehicle [sources: Samaras and Burnham et al]."

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-...

    "In a 2013 report, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Design for the Environment program concluded that batteries using nickel and cobalt, like lithium-ion batteries, have the “highest potential for environmental impacts”. It cited negative consequences like mining, global warming, environmental pollution and human health impacts."

    https://www.theguardian.com/vital-signs/2015/jun/10/tesla-batteries-environment-...

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 11:44am:
    instead you want to hang off the words of some obscure report which essentially only describes conventional manufacturing techniques.


    You mean there are more advanced techniques available to build lithium batteries? Please cite them.

    How do you get more lithium out than you put in?

    The report showed the amount of lithium available, at the time, and then worked from that to how many batteries for a Nissan Leaf, that it could provide. And that was before the commercial size operations like SA electricity storage were announced.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #91 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 3:02pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 1:22pm:
    As opposed to the regular disposal of toxic carcinogenic sump oil from the 1 billion cars and trucks around the world !



    Never heard of oil recycling?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 1:22pm:
    And where do those 1 billion led acid batteries end up after 4 years of use ?



    Well our Men's Shed collects them and sells them to recyclers. $400/tonne.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #92 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 6:58pm
     
    One notes that the LostSnail "quotes" fake stuff from the very Lefty Guardian - so convincing to a gullible Greeny type.

    In the mean time the evil Greenies poison the planet with their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE.


    And where does the dirty Greenies' Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE end up ?




    Will solar PV create a wave of toxic battery waste in rural Africa?
    13 December 2016

    Promoting solar photovoltaic (PV) off-grid solutions for poor rural areas without access to electricity is a good thing. The benefits of lighting and electricity for education and health, and clean energy as an enabler for income-generating activities cannot be emphasised enough. Therefore, the Sustainable Development Goal 7 ‘Affordable and Clean Energy’ promotes renewables such as solar PV and mini grids as one of the quickest ways to scale up rural electrification rates in developing countries and to end energy poverty.

    ...
    Image of indoor storage/office space of used lead-acid battery traders

    When people talk about off-grid solar PV, they often only talk about solar panels, but forget that for solar to work in off-grid areas one also needs storage technologies - batteries. Also, what is so far not considered in the roll-out of solar PV panels and batteries, are the end-of-life issues associated with the technologies. At this stage, and for decades to come, millions of lead-acid batteries are likely to be used as the main storage technology in rural off-grid areas – in the absence of environmentally sound recycling facilities.

    In Africa, many countries and communities are already struggling with contaminated sites and soil pollution from unregulated car battery recovery and recycling. Unsound end-of-life management and recycling can cause severe and even fatal lead poisoning of people working in the battery recycling sector. The health of people living around small and industrial-scale lead smelters, in particular children, are severely impacted for life. A recent report by the Lead Recycling Africa Project and Oeko-Institute revealed that already every year more than 1.2 million tonnes of used lead-acid batteries and 800,000 tonnes of lead require sound management in Africa.

    Some organisations are beginning to understand the looming challenges associated with the energy transition in rural Africa and are exploring solutions to the emerging problems. On regional level the United Nations Environment Assembly meeting held in May 2016 in Nairobi, Kenya, focused on health and environmental hazards caused by the recovery of lead from waste batteries. On 24 November 2016, I attended a multi-stakeholder workshop in Abuja, Nigeria, organised by the Heinrich Boell Foundation, bringing together researchers, regulators, NOGs, solar PV companies and battery industry representatives to discuss the issues at stake.

    The solar off-grid battery recycling challenge in Africa
    In Nigeria about 60 per cent of the population still have no access to modern energy services. To address the issue, Nigeria aims to install 30,000 megawatts of solar PV by 2030 as outlined in the country’s Intended Nationally Determined Contributions (INDCs). Most of this solar target will be installed off-grid. Other African countries have similar targets - the African Renewable Energy Initiative that was launched in 2015 has a 300 gigawatt target for 2030, solar PV will play a major role. Ghana aims to deploy around 30,000 solar home systems and two million solar lanterns by 2020 and invest $230 million into four solar energy project areas, including mini-grids and stand-alone solar PV systems.

    For Nigeria’s off-grid solar PV installations, the panels and most batteries are currently imported from China (about 70-80 per cent). While European products are too expensive, other suppliers are South Korea and the US, and only about 10 per cent of lead-acid batteries are produced domestically. As the battery costs are about 60 per cent of the installation cost for an off-grid PV installation, Chinese imports are currently the best option for low and middle income countries. Already about two million are imported every year as energy storage devices (also for conventional diesel generators), a number that is expected to rise steeply.

    Read the rest of the disgusting Greenies' toxic waste poisoning the planet here

    http://www.ids.ac.uk/opinion/will-solar-pv-create-a-wave-of-toxic-battery-waste-...
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #93 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:26pm
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 6:58pm:
    [b][i]One notes that the LostSnail "quotes" fake stuff from the very Lefty Guardian - so convincing to a gullible Greeny type.

    In the mean time the evil Greenies poison the planet with their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE.





    What is fake about the 1 billion lead acid batteries used in the 1 billion fossil fool vehicles on the planet that only last an average of 4 years and then get discarded or recycled using more non renewable polluting energy sources ??

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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #94 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:27pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:26pm:
    What is fake about the 1 billion lead acid batteries used in the 1 billion fossil fool vehicles on the planet ??

    Where do they end up after an average 4 years lifetime ??



    You have trouble reading?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #95 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 3:02pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 1:22pm:
    As opposed to the regular disposal of toxic carcinogenic sump oil from the 1 billion cars and trucks around the world !



    Never heard of oil recycling?


    And how much energy does that use and how much GHG and toxic by-products does that create in additional to all of the wasted energy refining and transporting the oil to the vehicle in the first place !!

    Name one fossil fool car manufacturer which has even attempted carbon neutrality in its processing ? You carry on about doubting Tesla's attempt at creating a carbon neutral battery plant but like to ignore the elephant in the room which btw has been operating for at least a century by now dumping their toxic waste all over the place !!
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #96 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:47pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
    And how much energy does that use and how much GHG and toxic by-products does that create in additional to all of the wasted energy refining and transporting the oil to the vehicle in the first place !!


    Obviously less energy than original manufacture, otherwise it wouldn't be feasible. Wink

    Oh no a greenie who doesn't believe in recycling. Sounds kinda hypocritical.

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
    You carry on about doubting Tesla's attempt at creating a carbon neutral battery plant


    Now you seem to be getting it. An attempt.

    You also said "zero net emissions". Is that only for the solar and batteries replacing fossil fuel energy? Or does it mean those emissions from cobalt etc that are used in the lithium battery manufacture?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
    but like to ignore the elephant in the room which btw has been operating for at least a century by now dumping their toxic waste all over the place !!


    So you want to make it retroactive? Use today's standards on yesterday's manufacture? Wink

    I bet you had a big car when you were young.


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #97 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:01pm
     
    The LostSnail is way out of his depth and is just grabbing at straws found by rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greeny lying hypocrite propaganda sites.

    All Greenies do the same thing - start in a flurry and in a hurry splattering the joint with Greeny bulldust but eventually give up and disappear disillusioned and disappointed but a shred wiser.

    And, like most hypocrite Greenies, he just doesn't want to know that the evil Greenies are poisoning the planet with their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #98 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:09pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:47pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
    And how much energy does that use and how much GHG and toxic by-products does that create in additional to all of the wasted energy refining and transporting the oil to the vehicle in the first place !!


    Obviously less energy than original manufacture, otherwise it wouldn't be feasible. Wink

    Oh no a greenie who doesn't believe in recycling. Sounds kinda hypocritical.

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
    You carry on about doubting Tesla's attempt at creating a carbon neutral battery plant


    Now you seem to be getting it. An attempt.

    You also said "zero net emissions". Is that only for the solar and batteries replacing fossil fuel energy? Or does it mean those emissions from cobalt etc that are used in the lithium battery manufacture?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 8:35pm:
    but like to ignore the elephant in the room which btw has been operating for at least a century by now dumping their toxic waste all over the place !!


    So you want to make it retroactive? Use today's standards on yesterday's manufacture? Wink

    I bet you had a big car when you were young.




    The problem is like yourself and the rest of the conservative money maggot swill you keeping making up excuses not to change your dirty habits. The premise of all of your arguments on these forums is about maintaining the status quo and bottom line by denying that there is anything wrong with what you do in the first place so no reason to change Sad
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #99 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:15pm
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:01pm:
    The LostSnail is way out of his depth and is just grabbing at straws found by rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greeny lying hypocrite propaganda sites.

    All Greenies do the same thing - start in a flurry and in a hurry splattering the joint with Greeny bulldust but eventually give up and disappear disillusioned and disappointed but a shred wiser.

    And, like most hypocrite Greenies, he just doesn't want to know that the evil Greenies are poisoning the planet with their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE.


    1 billion LEAD acid batteries that need changing every 4 years. At least 1-2 billion used oil filters that need to be replaced and discarded every year. At least 1-2 billion x 4 liters of filthy carcinogenic sump oil that needs to be replaced and disposed of every year and the lists goes on and on for your unreliable fossil fool rubbish Sad

    And you dickheads are worried about a bit of lithium used for batteries that Tesla has proven lasts the life of the car !!



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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #100 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:22pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
    juliar wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:01pm:
    The LostSnail is way out of his depth and is just grabbing at straws found by rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greeny lying hypocrite propaganda sites.

    All Greenies do the same thing - start in a flurry and in a hurry splattering the joint with Greeny bulldust but eventually give up and disappear disillusioned and disappointed but a shred wiser.

    And, like most hypocrite Greenies, he just doesn't want to know that the evil Greenies are poisoning the planet with their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE.


    1 billion LEAD acid batteries that need changing every 4 years. At least 1-2 billion used oil filters that need to be replaced and discarded every year. At least 1-2 billion x 4 liters of filthy carcinogenic sump oil that needs to be replaced and disposed of every year and the lists goes on and on for your unreliable fossil fool rubbish Sad

    And you dickheads are worried about a bit of lithium used for batteries that Tesla has proven lasts the life of the car !!




    hear hear sir Nail,
    we only have petrol cars because the oil companies control the world.

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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #101 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:25pm
     
    Bobby. wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:22pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
    juliar wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 9:01pm:
    The LostSnail is way out of his depth and is just grabbing at straws found by rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greeny lying hypocrite propaganda sites.

    All Greenies do the same thing - start in a flurry and in a hurry splattering the joint with Greeny bulldust but eventually give up and disappear disillusioned and disappointed but a shred wiser.

    And, like most hypocrite Greenies, he just doesn't want to know that the evil Greenies are poisoning the planet with their Renewable Rubbish TOXIC WASTE.


    1 billion LEAD acid batteries that need changing every 4 years. At least 1-2 billion used oil filters that need to be replaced and discarded every year. At least 1-2 billion x 4 liters of filthy carcinogenic sump oil that needs to be replaced and disposed of every year and the lists goes on and on for your unreliable fossil fool rubbish Sad

    And you dickheads are worried about a bit of lithium used for batteries that Tesla has proven lasts the life of the car !!




    hear hear sir Nail,
    we only have petrol cars because the oil companies control the world.



    Well it is certainly changing oversea and the chinese couldn't give a sh.t about foreign oil companies. It's only the boneheads here who will be the last to change as usual. The same mob who gave us junk copper internet from the 50's will keep serving up their old fossil fool rubbish to us for as long as they can get away with it Sad
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #102 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:33pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:09pm:
    The problem is like yourself and the rest of the conservative money maggot swill you keeping making up excuses not to change your dirty habits. The premise of all of your arguments on these forums is about maintaining the status quo and bottom line by denying that there is anything wrong with what you do in the first place so no reason to change



    Oh dear. back to shooting the messenger. Lost your debate again.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #103 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:44pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
    1 billion LEAD acid batteries that need changing every 4 years.


    Haven't read up on recycling yet?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
    At least 1-2 billion x 4 liters of filthy carcinogenic sump oil that needs to be replaced and disposed of every year



    recycling again?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
    And you dickheads are worried about a bit of lithium used for batteries that Tesla has proven lasts the life of the car !!



    What about the other metals cobalt and nickel, in a Tesla? Pollution?

    And you still haven't addressed its limited supply, except to squawk about manufacturing technology.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #104 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:45pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:25pm:
    Well it is certainly changing oversea and the chinese couldn't give a sh.t about foreign oil companies. It's only the boneheads here who will be the last to change as usual. The same mob who gave us junk copper internet from the 50's will keep serving up their old fossil fool rubbish to us for as long as they can get away with it



    Got any updates on lithium availability?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #105 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:46pm
     
    The frustrated and exasperated way out of his depth LostSnail is getting crude and rude which is a certain sign he knows he has lost the argument - a normal ending for a Greeny type as they all end up this way.

    The fragile lying hypocrite Greeny platform collected from the piles of rubbish on the Greeny Propaganda Sites eventually gives away under the weight of its own hypocrisy and lies.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now - a severe blow to the lying hypocrite Greenies pumping their Global Warming HOAX.

    Now the Libs are wisely taking the advice of qualified engineers who are warning that the Aust power system is getting close to being dangerously unstable without reliable coal power stations to provide endless cheap affordable reliable stable voltage and frequency supply to Australian industry.

    The Renewable Rubbish is not worth the paper it is printed on and if the govt were not subsidizing it there would not be a windymill to be seen anywhere as these things are just waste of money white elephants as Sth Aust can now testify as they desperately buy diesel generators to try to prop up their shaky near to collapse power network sabotaged by the evil HATE Australia Greenies who want to close down ALL Australian industry.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future.

    It is expected that eventually there will be a real genuine scientific break thru with energy.

    In the mean time the out of warranty broken down abandoned solar panels and windymills will be just Greeny TOXIC WASTE poisoning the PLANET - DISGUSTING!!!!!
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #106 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:33am
     
    Hydrogen is already sounding the death knell for kranky all electric cars which have only a limited market and a painful long recharge time.

    Hydrogen has it all over all electric as hydrogen can be used to power large semi trailers and trucks whereas all electric CANNOT due to the enormous size of the battery.

    What would be hilarious is a Tesla car with a flat battery being towed by an hydrogen powered tow truck!!!!!




    The breakdown: hydrogen on the horizon
    David McCowen  23 June 2017

    Five things you need to know about the rise of fuel cell vehicles.

    VIDEO: Hyundai's hydrogen car put to the test. Three countries and 1000 kilometers in the ix35 Fuel Cell.



    What's going on?
    There have been important breakthroughs in the drive for hydrogen-powered cars this month.

    The South Australian Government announced on Thursday that it will grant $8.2 million over four years for a hydrogen production and distribution site for fuel-cell-powered electric vehicles including at least six buses.

    Up in Sydney, the University of NSW has developed a more efficient catalyst for separating water into hydrogen and oxygen without the use of exotic metals, making the technology cheaper to access.

    Chinese scientists have been working on a similar theme by pushing to make hydrogen production less energy-intensive, while the US Department of Energy is funding a Penn State project to find efficient ways to store hydrogen. 

    In Seoul, Hyundai insiders reportedly told Business Korea that the manufacturer is planning a 15-fold increase in the number of hydrogen-powered cars it sells when an all-new model goes into production in early 2018.

    And that barely covers the last three weeks of development.

    Why the big deal?
    As Hyundai Australia environmental policy spokesman Scott Nargar told The Australian Financial Review: "all you need is water and sunshine".

    Fuel cell vehicles have been touted as a long-term solution to the problem of personal transportation.

    Hyundai, Toyota and Honda have put fuel cell-powered cars into production that offer emissions-free motoring with faster refuelling times than electric vehicles.

    Hydrogen for fuel cell vehicles can be sourced from water, which is split into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity. After the electrolysis process, hydrogen is stored under high pressure (up to 800bar or 11,600PSI) and pumped into cars at special service stations.   
    California has the toughest clean-air rules in the country and mandates for zero-emission vehicles, making it the natural place for Shell and Toyota to team up in the US.

    ...

    Fuel cell vehicles such as Toyota's Mirai store compressed hydrogen gas in an armoured container in the back of the car, pumping it through to a fuel cell under the bonnet. There, a complex arrangement of thin, sheet-like membranes combines that hydrogen with oxygen sourced from ambient air around the car. The fuel cell's catalyst triggers a chemical reaction that divides hydrogen molecules into positively charged protons and negatively charged electrons that create an electric current before fusing with oxygen to become water.

    The current is then used to power electric motors to provide propulsion, while the water leaves the car as waste.

    Hydrogen's key advantage over plug-in electric vehicles is that a car can take on a full take of hydrogen in a few minutes – roughly the same amount of time it takes to top up a tank of petrol – while electric cars usually require several hours to take a charge.

    ...

    The hydrogen-powered Mirai has a superior driving range and can be tanked up in three minutes -- no hours-long charging involved. Only harmless H20 dribbles out of its rear end.

    The problem is that hydrogen technology is expensive and infrastructure is extremely limited – particularly compared with the power grid. Both of those factors are likely to change in coming years.

    Hydrogen power is also inefficient compared with the latest battery tech. But it isn't as materials-intensive, and it looks to be more scalable than battery tech as heavy vehicles look set to be a key battleground for the race between hydrogen and electric power. The gas is lighter than equivalent lithium-ion batteries, making it a better bet for buses and trucks. Toyota revealed a new fuel cell-powered semi-trailer concept in May that produces 500kW of power and almost 1800Nm of torque, offering a payload of 36.2 tonnes and a working range of 320 kilometres.

    ...

    Toyota's Project Portal hydrogen fuel cell truck has been unveiled ahead of a trail.


    Read the exciting rest of hydrogen power for Australian transport here

    http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-breakdown-hydrogen-on-the-horizon-2017062...
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #107 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:33am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:33pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 18th, 2017 at 10:09pm:
    The problem is like yourself and the rest of the conservative money maggot swill you keeping making up excuses not to change your dirty habits. The premise of all of your arguments on these forums is about maintaining the status quo and bottom line by denying that there is anything wrong with what you do in the first place so no reason to change



    Oh dear. back to shooting the messenger. Lost your debate again.


    There was never a debate in the first place. The rest of the world is moving on and you lot are stuck in the past contemplating buying back some old clapped out coal fired power station. A bit like the NBN, buying back old used copper network from 50 years ago. Haven't you lot got any vision ? Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #108 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:35am
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:33am:
    Hydrogen is already sounding the death knell for kranky all electric cars which have only a limited market and a painful long recharge time.

    Hydrogen has it all over all electric as hydrogen can be used to power large semi trailers and trucks whereas all electric CANNOT due to the enormous size of the battery.

    What would be hilarious is a Tesla car with a flat battery being towed by an hydrogen powered tow truck!!!!!



    Hey dickhead, hydrogen was supposed to be here 20 years ago. Where is it today ?? Concept cars and trucks filling up beside one hydrogen fool bowser at a Toyota R&D center. Give us a break socko Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #109 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 11:00am
     
    LostSnail is showing how to lose an argument again with a bit more hysterical Greeny bunkum. And with a bit of name calling too.

    LostSnail give up while you are behind and go back to rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greeny propaganda sites to find some more feel good but impractical stuff.

    You are all about feel good stuff which does not work in practice and of course the Greeny rubbish sites are full of this stuff which the unthinking technically obtuse Greeny types lap up with relish.

    The govt is now backing coal power stations after advice from qualified engineers who alerted them to the futility of trying to rely on renewable rubbish.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now much to the chagrin of the delusional gullible Greeny types.

    While lead batteries are fully reused the very poisonous toxic Greeny renewable rubbish batteries and solar panels are so highly toxic there is no easy way of disposing them unless shipping them to Africa is a "solution".

    Hydrogen and clean coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future just like the other countries are doing.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #110 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 11:33am
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 11:00am:
    LostSnail is showing how to lose an argument again with a bit more hysterical Greeny bunkum. And with a bit of name calling too.

    LostSnail give up while you are behind and go back to rummaging thru the piles of rubbish on the Greeny propaganda sites to find some more feel good but impractical stuff.

    You are all about feel good stuff which does not work in practice and of course the Greeny rubbish sites are full of this stuff which the unthinking technically obtuse Greeny types lap up with relish.

    The govt is now backing coal power stations after advice from qualified engineers who alerted them to the futility of trying to rely on renewable rubbish.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now much to the chagrin of the delusional gullible Greeny types.

    While lead batteries are fully reused the very poisonous toxic Greeny renewable rubbish batteries and solar panels are so highly toxic there is no easy way of disposing them unless shipping them to Africa is a "solution".

    Hydrogen and clean coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future just like the other countries are doing.


    Yeh like hydrogen is really practical that's why everyone is using it Cheesy LOL

    Socko drowning in a sea of weasel words Cheesy LOL


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #111 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:29pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:33am:
    There was never a debate in the first place.



    Really. You posted what you believed, i posted rebuttals. That is generally considered debate. Wink

    BTW - Just how carcinogenic is sump oil?

    "Frequent and prolonged contact with used engine oil may cause dermatitis and other skin disorders, including skin cancer."

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/topics/oil.htm

    "Used gasoline engine oils are carcinogenic in mouse skin and mutagenic in Salmonella."

    "The used diesel engine oils were not carcinogenic even after extended use."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2612787

    Lucky I don't have mouse skin. And my diesel is safe. Wink

    "The probit analysis of the results shows:

        1)    The used engine oil, from gasoline-driven automobiles, investigated provoked local tumors after long-term application to the dorsal skin of mice. The incidence of carcinoma depended on the dose of the oil."

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00432496

    That would seem to make sump oil a low carcinogenic risk.

    Of course you can provide a study that refutes what I have said?

    BTW  your FREEEE solar power is carcinogenic.

    And so it would seem is cobalt, one of the main ingredients in a Tesla battery.
    Back to top
    « Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:38pm by lee »  
     
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    Sir lastnail
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #112 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:52pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:29pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:33am:
    There was never a debate in the first place.



    Really. You posted what you believed, i posted rebuttals. That is generally considered debate. Wink

    BTW - Just how carcinogenic is sump oil?

    "Frequent and prolonged contact with used engine oil may cause dermatitis and other skin disorders, including skin cancer."

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/topics/oil.htm

    "Used gasoline engine oils are carcinogenic in mouse skin and mutagenic in Salmonella."

    "The used diesel engine oils were not carcinogenic even after extended use."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2612787

    Lucky I don't have mouse skin. And my diesel is safe. Wink

    "The probit analysis of the results shows:

        1)    The used engine oil, from gasoline-driven automobiles, investigated provoked local tumors after long-term application to the dorsal skin of mice. The incidence of carcinoma depended on the dose of the oil."

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00432496

    That would seem to make sump oil a low carcinogenic risk.

    Of course you can provide a study that refutes what I have said?

    BTW  your FREEEE solar power is carcinogenic.

    And so it would seem is cobalt, one of the main ingredients in a Tesla battery.


    Try using it to cook your steak and let us know Wink
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    In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #113 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:56pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:52pm:
    Try using it to cook your steak and let us know



    So no rebuttals then. I am not surprised.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #114 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 4:46pm
     
    Lee,

    the standard Greeny type argument is, If you don't agree with me THEN YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!

    Just see how the Yessers are carrying on with their very aggressive WE are RIGHT YOU are WRONG SSM campaign.

    But the misinformed poorly educated Greenies are very much in the minority and contribute ZERO to running the country and so it is like the tail trying to wag the dog.

    The Greenies just want an inside run to WELFARE for ALL Greenies.

    And the LostSnail keeps sidestepping the issue of the Greenies are poisoning the planet with their renewable rubbish very TOXIC WASTE
    .
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #115 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:36am
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
    Lee,

    the standard Greeny type argument is, If you don't agree with me THEN YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!

    Just see how the Yessers are carrying on with their very aggressive WE are RIGHT YOU are WRONG SSM campaign.

    But the misinformed poorly educated Greenies are very much in the minority and contribute ZERO to running the country and so it is like the tail trying to wag the dog.

    The Greenies just want an inside run to WELFARE for ALL Greenies.

    And the LostSnail keeps sidestepping the issue of the Greenies are poisoning the planet with their renewable rubbish very TOXIC WASTE
    .


    And there is no TOXIC waste from the production and use of fossil fool cars and their consumables ?? Cheesy LOL

    Standard rightard reply is that if you bypass the fossil fool bowser for your energy needs then all of a sudden it has all of these apparent issues and all of the existing fossil fool technology has no issues at all Cheesy LOL




    Back to top
    « Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:43am by Sir lastnail »  

    In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #116 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:39am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:56pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:52pm:
    Try using it to cook your steak and let us know



    So no rebuttals then. I am not surprised.


    Get real will you. Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #117 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 11:52am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:36am:
    And there is no TOXIC waste from the production and use of fossil fool cars and their consumables ??



    Which toxic wastes specifically? And you propose to replace one toxic waste with another?

    That doesn't sound very environmentally healthy.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #118 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 11:53am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:39am:
    lee wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:56pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 3:52pm:
    Try using it to cook your steak and let us know



    So no rebuttals then. I am not surprised.


    Get real will you. Cheesy LOL



    Yes. I can understand you not wanting to rebut the science. Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #119 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 11:52am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:36am:
    And there is no TOXIC waste from the production and use of fossil fool cars and their consumables ??


    Which toxic wastes specifically? And you propose to replace one toxic waste with another?

    That doesn't sound very environmentally healthy.


    You must be daft and totally delusional !

    What about the sh.t that comes out of the tail pipe ?? Apart from being deadly in a confined space you're not going to tell us that the particulates and other byproducts  is not a health hazard are you ?? 100's of thousands of people are dying in china every year from the pollution emitted by setting fire to fossil fools !! Millions around the world are dying as well from the muck that comes out of tail pipes and chimneys Sad

    And where is the equivalent of an oil change on an electric car ??

    In fact what service items need to be maintained or replaced on an electric car ??

    Here are the benefits and a list of items which don't have to be serviced on an EV simply because it doesn't have them Wink

    - No ripoff petrol
    - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
    - No oil changes
    - No oil filter to dispose of
    - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
    - No transmission to pack up and maintain
    - No spark plugs to change
    - No timing belt to change
    - No fuel filter to change
    - No radiator and hoses to change
    - No fuel injectors to pack up
    - No problems with contaminated fuel
    - No exhaust pipe to change
    - No toxic tail pipe emissions
    - No green house gas emissions
    - No catalytic converter
    - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
    - Tesla offers free charging stations
    - Silent operation
    - No wars fort over oil
    - No environmentally damaging oil spills
    - regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking
    - reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking



    Back to top
    « Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:42pm by Sir lastnail »  

    In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #120 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    lee wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 11:52am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:36am:
    And there is no TOXIC waste from the production and use of fossil fool cars and their consumables ??



    Which toxic wastes specifically? And you propose to replace one toxic waste with another?

    That doesn't sound very environmentally healthy.


    You must be daft and totally delusional. Where is the equivalent of an oil change on an electric car ??

    In fact what service items need to be maintained or replaced on an electric car ??

    Here are the benefits and a list of items which don't have to be serviced on an EV simply because it doesn't have them Wink

    - No ripoff petrol
    - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
    - No oil changes
    - No oil filter to dispose of
    - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
    - No transmission to pack up and maintain
    - No spark plugs to change
    - No timing belt to change
    - No fuel filter to change
    - No radiator and hoses to change
    - No fuel injectors to pack up
    - No problems with contaminated fuel
    - No exhaust pipe to change
    - No toxic tail pipe emissions
    - No green house gas emissions
    - No catalytic converter
    - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
    - Tesla offers free charging stations
    - Silent operation
    - No wars fort over oil
    - No environmentally damaging oil spills
    - regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking
    - reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking






    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #121 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 2:46pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    What about the sh.t that comes out of the tail pipe ?? Apart from being deadly in a confined space you're not going to tell us that the particulates and other byproducts  is not a health hazard are you ??


    You mean you only just found out about running Internal Combustion Engines (ICE) in a confined space? Amazing. As I said exchanging one form of pollution to another. Capiche?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    100's of thousands of people are dying in china every year from the pollution emitted by setting fire to fossil fools !!


    Yes. China has really poor emission controls. That is not the worldwide scenario.

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    Millions around the world are dying as well from the muck that comes out of tail pipes and chimneys



    Perhaps you want to read up about the ill health and early death of those millions who rely on dung fires for light and cooking.

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    And where is the equivalent of an oil change on an electric car ??


    A battery change?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    In fact what service items need to be maintained or replaced on an electric car ??


    Well as I said Batteries.  Brakes

    Tesla S
    "Concerned about a rattle and softness in the brake pedal, he took his car to his local Tesla service center and was shocked to find that it would cost $8,500 to fix his car.

    Here’s a list of the items the service center said needed replacing:

        Brake caliper assembly with piston (each): $745.00
        Rear rotor (each): $331.00
        Front Rotor (each): $290.00
        Parking brake caliper with pads: $1,235.00"

    http://gas2.org/2016/05/21/2012-tesla-model-s-needs-8500-brake-repair/

    But I'll let you live in your dream world.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #122 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 3:16pm
     
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm:
    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



    sir Nail is an international businessman who drives a luxury car.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #123 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 3:37pm
     
    Bobby. wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 3:16pm:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm:
    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



    sir Nail is an international businessman who drives a luxury car.



    Yeah, right!   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


    An Ebay shop and a second hand Mazda parked in his parents garage is not all it's cracked up to be regardless of what you think.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #124 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:46pm
     
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    lee wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 11:52am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:36am:
    And there is no TOXIC waste from the production and use of fossil fool cars and their consumables ??



    Which toxic wastes specifically? And you propose to replace one toxic waste with another?

    That doesn't sound very environmentally healthy.


    You must be daft and totally delusional. Where is the equivalent of an oil change on an electric car ??

    In fact what service items need to be maintained or replaced on an electric car ??

    Here are the benefits and a list of items which don't have to be serviced on an EV simply because it doesn't have them Wink

    - No ripoff petrol
    - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
    - No oil changes
    - No oil filter to dispose of
    - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
    - No transmission to pack up and maintain
    - No spark plugs to change
    - No timing belt to change
    - No fuel filter to change
    - No radiator and hoses to change
    - No fuel injectors to pack up
    - No problems with contaminated fuel
    - No exhaust pipe to change
    - No toxic tail pipe emissions
    - No green house gas emissions
    - No catalytic converter
    - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
    - Tesla offers free charging stations
    - Silent operation
    - No wars fort over oil
    - No environmentally damaging oil spills
    - regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking
    - reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking






    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


    You can't afford one on center link benefits Cheesy LOL
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    In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #125 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 2:46pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    And where is the equivalent of an oil change on an electric car ??


    A battery change?



    So do you think you have to change the batteries every six months Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #126 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:59pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
    So do you think you have to change the batteries every six months



    Well it was Musk who wanted to do "Change Out" stations, so you tell me. That would have been more lithium batteries.

    Have you come up with the pollution hazards on Tesla battery manufacture yet?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #127 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 6:24pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    lee wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 11:52am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:36am:
    And there is no TOXIC waste from the production and use of fossil fool cars and their consumables ??



    Which toxic wastes specifically? And you propose to replace one toxic waste with another?

    That doesn't sound very environmentally healthy.


    You must be daft and totally delusional. Where is the equivalent of an oil change on an electric car ??

    In fact what service items need to be maintained or replaced on an electric car ??

    Here are the benefits and a list of items which don't have to be serviced on an EV simply because it doesn't have them Wink

    - No ripoff petrol
    - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
    - No oil changes
    - No oil filter to dispose of
    - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
    - No transmission to pack up and maintain
    - No spark plugs to change
    - No timing belt to change
    - No fuel filter to change
    - No radiator and hoses to change
    - No fuel injectors to pack up
    - No problems with contaminated fuel
    - No exhaust pipe to change
    - No toxic tail pipe emissions
    - No green house gas emissions
    - No catalytic converter
    - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
    - Tesla offers free charging stations
    - Silent operation
    - No wars fort over oil
    - No environmentally damaging oil spills
    - regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking
    - reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking






    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


    You can't afford one on center link benefits Cheesy LOL



    Im not the one who constantly complains about the cost of absolutely everything.

    Im not the one who constantly justifies buy cheap chinese sh1t instead of quality made produces

    Im not the one who cried for months and months about the cost of fuel.


    Of the two of us, you are the one most likely on the dole little man.  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #128 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 6:57pm
     
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 3:37pm:
    Bobby. wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 3:16pm:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm:
    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



    sir Nail is an international businessman who drives a luxury car.



    Yeah, right!   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


    An Ebay shop and a second hand Mazda parked in his parents garage is not all it's cracked up to be regardless of what you think.



    I've known sir Nail for over 20 years -
    are you calling me a liar?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #129 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:45am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:59pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
    So do you think you have to change the batteries every six months



    Well it was Musk who wanted to do "Change Out" stations, so you tell me. That would have been more lithium batteries.

    Have you come up with the pollution hazards on Tesla battery manufacture yet?


    That was a plan for battery swap and go for the nay-sayers who want an instant charge up. It wouldn't have required anymore batteries as they are constantly recycled for recharging. It's good he didn't listen to the nay-sayers and went for the FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE super charging stations option Wink People appreciate something more when they get something for FREEEEEEEEEEEEE Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #130 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:47am
     
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 6:24pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 5:46pm:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:34pm:
    lee wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 11:52am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:36am:
    And there is no TOXIC waste from the production and use of fossil fool cars and their consumables ??



    Which toxic wastes specifically? And you propose to replace one toxic waste with another?

    That doesn't sound very environmentally healthy.


    You must be daft and totally delusional. Where is the equivalent of an oil change on an electric car ??

    In fact what service items need to be maintained or replaced on an electric car ??

    Here are the benefits and a list of items which don't have to be serviced on an EV simply because it doesn't have them Wink

    - No ripoff petrol
    - No getting ripped off on service and maintenance
    - No oil changes
    - No oil filter to dispose of
    - No filthy carcinogenic sump oil to dispose of
    - No transmission to pack up and maintain
    - No spark plugs to change
    - No timing belt to change
    - No fuel filter to change
    - No radiator and hoses to change
    - No fuel injectors to pack up
    - No problems with contaminated fuel
    - No exhaust pipe to change
    - No toxic tail pipe emissions
    - No green house gas emissions
    - No catalytic converter
    - Create your own energy at home using your own rooftop PV array
    - Tesla offers free charging stations
    - Silent operation
    - No wars fort over oil
    - No environmentally damaging oil spills
    - regenerative braking recovers lost energy when braking
    - reduction in brake maintenance due to regenerative braking






    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


    You can't afford one on center link benefits Cheesy LOL



    Im not the one who constantly complains about the cost of absolutely everything.

    Im not the one who constantly justifies buy cheap chinese sh1t instead of quality made produces

    Im not the one who cried for months and months about the cost of fuel.


    Of the two of us, you are the one most likely on the dole little man.  Smiley Smiley Smiley


    Then what are you doing on this forum if you can't tolerate difference of opinion ?? Time for you to get a job bighole. Mal has got something big planned for you Wink
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    In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #131 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:53am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:45am:
    It wouldn't have required anymore batteries as they are constantly recycled for recharging.



    So you don't need any extra batteries to pull out a battery bank and supply with a new battery bank? Where does that initial spare battery bank come from?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #132 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:20pm
     
    Bobby. wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 3:37pm:
    Bobby. wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 3:16pm:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 1:39pm:
    None of which you will ever experience.


    I will have a piece of sh1t barely make it to the end of the road electric car before you, ya povo loser.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



    sir Nail is an international businessman who drives a luxury car.



    Yeah, right!   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


    An Ebay shop and a second hand Mazda parked in his parents garage is not all it's cracked up to be regardless of what you think.



    I've known sir Nail for over 20 years -
    are you calling me a liar?




    Wouldn't be the first time you were wrong about somebody, would it?


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #133 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 1:38am
     
    coal supporters are welcomed to invest in coal - but don't expect me to keep subsidising it.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #134 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:45am
     
    stunspore wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 1:38am:
    coal supporters are welcomed to invest in coal - but don't expect me to keep subsidising it.


    oh, that $130m in coal subsidies as against  $2002m for solar and $388m for wind?

    Okay, you pay my share of solar and wind and I'll pay your share of coal subsidies. Can't be fairer than that. Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #135 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:47am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:53am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:45am:
    It wouldn't have required anymore batteries as they are constantly recycled for recharging.



    So you don't need any extra batteries to pull out a battery bank and supply with a new battery bank? Where does that initial spare battery bank come from?


    A few extra batteries. Big f.cking deal and they didn't go down that path anyway !! Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #136 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:01pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:47am:
    A few extra batteries. Big f.cking deal and they didn't go down that path anyway !



    Yes. They didn't go down that path.

    Now about those "few" batteries.

    How many change out stations?
    How many batteries would they have on hand to do those replacements?  per charge out station? 2, 5. 10?

    Those "few" are starting to add up. And that's why it probably didn't go ahead. He couldn't make a business case for it.

    It is great having these wonderful ideas. But then they have to be practical. Wink

    But at least you got around to admitting they would have had to have extra batteries.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #137 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:10pm
     
    stunspore wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 1:38am:
    coal supporters are welcomed to invest in coal - but don't expect me to keep subsidising it.



    What about using it?

    You know base load power from thermal coal and all steel and it's products from coking coal?


    You are welcome to invest in solar and wind power so long as there in no base load back or steel product and any part of the manufacturing process for your wind and solar power.


    Another fkkking deep thinker form the socialist camp.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin







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    « Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:23pm by BigOl64 »  
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #138 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:14pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:01pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:47am:
    A few extra batteries. Big f.cking deal and they didn't go down that path anyway !



    Yes. They didn't go down that path.

    Now about those "few" batteries.

    How many change out stations?
    How many batteries would they have on hand to do those replacements?  per charge out station? 2, 5. 10?

    Those "few" are starting to add up. And that's why it probably didn't go ahead. He couldn't make a business case for it.

    It is great having these wonderful ideas. But then they have to be practical. Wink

    But at least you got around to admitting they would have had to have extra batteries.


    Requiring extra battery packs on stand by doesn't make it any less impractical than having a huge tank full of deisel fuel or petroleum or LPG etc on standby which btw has to be replenished from an outside source.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #139 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 1:56pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:14pm:
    Requiring extra battery packs on stand by doesn't make it any less impractical than having a huge tank full of deisel fuel or petroleum or LPG etc on standby which btw has to be replenished from an outside source.



    But you were saying it didn't require any extra batteries.
    The other problem was you had to book in for the swap battery, which is not necessarily convenient.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #140 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 7:27pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 1:56pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 12:14pm:
    Requiring extra battery packs on stand by doesn't make it any less impractical than having a huge tank full of deisel fuel or petroleum or LPG etc on standby which btw has to be replenished from an outside source.



    But you were saying it didn't require any extra batteries.
    The other problem was you had to book in for the swap battery, which is not necessarily convenient.


    I don't know why you keep banging on about it when clearly no one is using this process !!

    Obviously the FREEEEEE super charging facilities that Tesla provide more than makeup for the waiting times. And not everyone needs a full recharge anyway. Just 10 minutes on a super charger will give you quite a bit of additional range Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #141 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 7:47pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 7:27pm:
    And not everyone needs a full recharge anyway. Just 10 minutes on a super charger will give you quite a bit of additional range



    How far is a "bit"? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #142 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 7:53pm
     
    "CEO Elon Musk said that they plan to deploy more battery and solar systems with the upcoming ‘Version 3’ of the Supercharger, but now he went a step further and claimed that “almost all Superchargers will disconnect from the electricity grid.”

    Previously, Musk said that Tesla’s new Powerpack and solar arrays will power some Supercharger stations in sunny regions to go off-grid – adding that “the grid won’t be needed for moderate use Superchargers in non-snowy regions.” "

    https://electrek.co/2017/06/09/tesla-superchargers-solar-battery-grid-elon-musk/

    Those that don't go off grid will be powered by?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #143 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:09pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 7:47pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 7:27pm:
    And not everyone needs a full recharge anyway. Just 10 minutes on a super charger will give you quite a bit of additional range



    How far is a "bit"? Grin Grin Grin Grin


    Put this in your pipe and smoke it. Show me one servo that gives you one drop of petrooooooleum for nothing ?? Cheesy LOL




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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #144 - Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:12pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 7:53pm:
    "CEO Elon Musk said that they plan to deploy more battery and solar systems with the upcoming ‘Version 3’ of the Supercharger, but now he went a step further and claimed that “almost all Superchargers will disconnect from the electricity grid.”

    Previously, Musk said that Tesla’s new Powerpack and solar arrays will power some Supercharger stations in sunny regions to go off-grid – adding that “the grid won’t be needed for moderate use Superchargers in non-snowy regions.” "

    https://electrek.co/2017/06/09/tesla-superchargers-solar-battery-grid-elon-musk/

    Those that don't go off grid will be powered by?


    offset by renewable energy that Tesla generates Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #145 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 11:46am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:12pm:
    offset by renewable energy that Tesla generates



    From the above link -

    "But only half a dozen stations or so out of the over 800 stations ended up getting a solar array."

    Not a lot of offset there.

    But you don't appear to understand what I am driving at.

    Not all plans come to fruition.
    Plans are not accomplishments.
    Plans are but one step in the process.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #146 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 11:49am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:09pm:
    Put this in your pipe and smoke it. Show me one servo that gives you one drop of petrooooooleum for nothing ??



    So you don't think that "free energy" is embedded in the original purchase price? That Musk is simply going to be charged for electricity he uses or that the cost of the renewables running his charging station will come out of his personal pocket?

    Dream on.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #147 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:24pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 11:49am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:09pm:
    Put this in your pipe and smoke it. Show me one servo that gives you one drop of petrooooooleum for nothing ??



    So you don't think that "free energy" is embedded in the original purchase price? That Musk is simply going to be charged for electricity he uses or that the cost of the renewables running his charging station will come out of his personal pocket?

    Dream on.


    You dream on if you think a fossil fool car is good deal !!

    The point is if you spend the same dollar value on a fossil fool clunker you never get one drop of fossil fool except enough to get you to the nearest fossil fool station after you leave the showroom where it's no problem for Tesla to give you a full charge.  Not only that they start ripping you off on oil changes and parts that are designed to fail etc. I think Tesla is offering a much better deal don't you ??

    Fossil fool car manufacturers derive most of their revenue from parts and service whereas Tesla does not prescribe to that model. Fossil fool cars are a bad deal right from the start Sad
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #148 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 11:46am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2017 at 11:12pm:
    offset by renewable energy that Tesla generates



    From the above link -

    "But only half a dozen stations or so out of the over 800 stations ended up getting a solar array."

    Not a lot of offset there.

    But you don't appear to understand what I am driving at.

    Not all plans come to fruition.
    Plans are not accomplishments.
    Plans are but one step in the process.


    No I don't understand any of your circular arguments:-

    FACT :- Tesla sells high performance long range electric vehicles to the public
    FACT :- Tesla offers free charge ups at any of their super charging stations
    FACT:- Tesla is producing cheaper electric vehicles

    These were all Teslas plans at one stage and the nay-sayers kept telling us that none of these things could be accomplished just as you are now !
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #149 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:44pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
    The point is if you spend the same dollar value on a fossil fool clunker you never get one drop of fossil fool except enough to get you to the nearest fossil fool station after you leave the showroom where it's no problem for Tesla to give you a full charge.



    I spend my money wisely. Why would I pay an inflated price that would give me "free" tank top-ups? Grin Grin Grin Grin

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
    I think Tesla is offering a much better deal don't you ??



    No, but you are entitled to your opinion. Wink

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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #150 - Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:54pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    No I don't understand any of your circular arguments:-



    So because you don't understand my arguments, they become circular? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    FACT :- Tesla offers free charge ups at any of their super charging stations



    Yes. You still don't understand that the recharge isn't "free". It is embedded in the purchase price. Wink

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    FACT:- Tesla is producing cheaper electric vehicles



    Cheaper than what?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    FACT :- Tesla sells high performance long range electric vehicles to the public


    Did you know that during Hurricane Irma Tesla undid a software switch in their "cheaper" models that boosted the power and so the mileage they could expect? In other words they sold "cheaper" cars that actually had the same performance distance wise, as their more expensive models.

    If that was someone selling software they would call that crippleware.

    "Unlocking the full capabilities of a Tesla battery can cost thousands of dollars in extra fees—unless you’re trying to outrun Hurricane Irma.

    After a customer trying to flee the storm contacted the automaker to ask for more power, the company began issuing free over-the-air upgrades to drivers in the state, Eletrek reports."

    https://qz.com/1073742/hurricane-irma-tesla-auto-magically-extends-the-battery-l...
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #151 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:16am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:54pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    No I don't understand any of your circular arguments:-



    So because you don't understand my arguments, they become circular? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    FACT :- Tesla offers free charge ups at any of their super charging stations



    Yes. You still don't understand that the recharge isn't "free". It is embedded in the purchase price. Wink

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    FACT:- Tesla is producing cheaper electric vehicles



    Cheaper than what?

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 24th, 2017 at 7:30pm:
    FACT :- Tesla sells high performance long range electric vehicles to the public


    Did you know that during Hurricane Irma Tesla undid a software switch in their "cheaper" models that boosted the power and so the mileage they could expect? In other words they sold "cheaper" cars that actually had the same performance distance wise, as their more expensive models.

    If that was someone selling software they would call that crippleware.

    "Unlocking the full capabilities of a Tesla battery can cost thousands of dollars in extra fees—unless you’re trying to outrun Hurricane Irma.

    After a customer trying to flee the storm contacted the automaker to ask for more power, the company began issuing free over-the-air upgrades to drivers in the state, Eletrek reports."

    https://qz.com/1073742/hurricane-irma-tesla-auto-magically-extends-the-battery-l...


    Sure you can squeeze more range from the batteries at the expense of reduced lifetime which is why it was only offered in an emergency situation.

    As for the cost of the free charge-ups being factored into the price one of the reasons that Tesla can do this is because renewable energy is essentially free whereas fossil fool aint free which is why no fossil fool car vendor ever offers free fill-ups !! You seem to still have trouble understanding the concept of free sunlight and wind energy none of which anyone ever pays for.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #152 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:42am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:16am:
    Sure you can squeeze more range from the batteries at the expense of reduced lifetime which is why it was only offered in an emergency situation.



    Got a reference for that?

    Why would they offer the upgrade?

    "Owners of these vehicles can unlock that extra battery power at any time by paying for an upgrade through their MyTesla account."

    http://fortune.com/2017/09/23/tesla-battery-life-hurricane-irma/

    Now that is not a larger capacity battery, that's just the software feature.

    Nowhere can I find that it puts more stress on the battery shortening battery life.Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:16am:
    As for the cost of the free charge-ups being factored into the price one of the reasons that Tesla can do this is because renewable energy is essentially free



    Except of course for the infrastructure for the stations, the renewable features, the purchased power, the site lease. Wink

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:16am:
    You seem to still have trouble understanding the concept of free sunlight and wind energy none of which anyone ever pays for.



    Except the capturing, storage etc is not free? Why can't you understand that?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #153 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:45am
     
    LostSnail you are an embarrassment to the Greenies. You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

    All you are doing is reciting the feel good stuff that doesn't work you find in the piles of rubbish on the Greeny sites.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #154 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:46am
     
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/the-truth-about-soaring-power-prices/89798...

    Will the coalition and their supporters go for blood over this article?  Which statement is wrong?  More deflection and BS instead of debates and facts?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #155 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:21pm
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:45am:
    LostSnail you are an embarrassment to the Greenies. You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

    All you are doing is reciting the feel good stuff that doesn't work you find in the piles of rubbish on the Greeny sites.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future.


    pissoff socko. You keep parroting the same bullshit message about hydrogen.

    Hydrogen hydrogen hydrogen !! Where is it socko ??? Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #156 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:23pm
     
    stunspore wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:46am:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/the-truth-about-soaring-power-prices/89798...

    Will the coalition and their supporters go for blood over this article?  Which statement is wrong?  More deflection and BS instead of debates and facts?


    Hey did someone show this to socko ??

    Quote:
    According to Mr Sims, extra retail charges account for 24 per cent of the higher prices while higher generation costs as a result of a failure to invest make up 19 per cent of the price hikes.

    Green energy initiatives contribute just 16 per cent to the recent price hikes.


    Why on earth do we have energy retailers ?? What do they do ?? What is their purpose ??
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #157 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:47pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:21pm:
    juliar wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:45am:
    LostSnail you are an embarrassment to the Greenies. You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

    All you are doing is reciting the feel good stuff that doesn't work you find in the piles of rubbish on the Greeny sites.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future.


    pissoff socko. You keep parroting the same bullshit message about hydrogen.

    Hydrogen hydrogen hydrogen !! Where is it socko ??? Cheesy LOL



    I thought you were all about the latest in technology, you know that is why you call everyone else luddite.


    Then what are you against the technology they use in the space program?


    Hydrogen fuel cells sh1t all over batteries, so what is your hate for the latest technology over old and barely capable technology?


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #158 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 1:10pm
     
    stunspore wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:46am:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/the-truth-about-soaring-power-prices/89798...

    Will the coalition and their supporters go for blood over this article?  Which statement is wrong?  More deflection and BS instead of debates and facts?


    So the fact that windpower, in summer, can only supply 2% of its nameplate capacity for lack of wind, has no impact on the price of electricity?

    The fact that power companies must buy renewables first, before going to traditional power, has no impact on prices? Those renewables that have subsidies of $2002 million for solar and $388m for wind have no impact on electricity cost?

    It doesn't impact on coal generation because of the intermittency factor, because coal can't ramp up as fast as gas?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #159 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 1:26pm
     
    LostSnail you really are an embarrassment to the Greenies.

    You are pumping such childish nonsense because you simply do not understand any technical stuff and never will.

    To say wind and sun are free sauces of energy is of such childish ignorance you would be ashamed if you had the vaguest clue what you are saying. Just one windymill costs about $3 million and produces very little power.

    The fact that you are getting rude and crude and doing a bit of childish name calling is expected as you lose yet another argument.

    Have you ever won an argument ? I doubt it as you cannot argue your way out of a paper bag.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now - what an embarrassment for the lying hypocrite Greenies.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future. The Libs are going coal now for essential full time power supply when the "free" wind and sun stop. 

    Wind and solar power is basically uneconomic because it produces so little power.

    If the govt subsidies were removed as advocated by Tony Abbott then you would not see a single loss making high maintenance solar farm or windymill anywhere.

    On the other hand coal is well proven to be a profitable source of CHEAP clean energy which does not require subsidies.

    The otherwise useless solar farms and windymills can be put to good use powering the electrolysers splitting water into hydrogen for cars and trucks and oxygen for industry.

    Wouldn't it be hilarious seeing a broken down all electric car being towed by a hydrogen powered tow truck!!!!! THIS is the future.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #160 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 1:30pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 1:10pm:
    stunspore wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:46am:
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/the-truth-about-soaring-power-prices/89798...

    Will the coalition and their supporters go for blood over this article?  Which statement is wrong?  More deflection and BS instead of debates and facts?


    So the fact that windpower, in summer, can only supply 2% of its nameplate capacity for lack of wind, has no impact on the price of electricity?

    The fact that power companies must buy renewables first, before going to traditional power, has no impact on prices? Those renewables that have subsidies of $2002 million for solar and $388m for wind have no impact on electricity cost?

    It doesn't impact on coal generation because of the intermittency factor, because coal can't ramp up as fast as gas?



    Yep none of that has any effect on power price at all.


    There should only be a discussion about cheap base load power and everything else after that.


    If it doesn't contribute to cheap base-load then it isn't part of the mix until it is needed.



    So those roof top solar panel ripping us all off blind, don't get a cent in subsidy until the power is needed. We should not have to subsides those who have solar panel on their roof, good on them if that is what they want, fkk 'em if they want me to pay for it.


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #161 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 1:38pm
     
    Where the weak minded Greeny types get bamboozled is they see solar panels on a home and everything keeps going on dark overcast days and at night and these simple minded soles think that solar panels can power the nation.

    What the weak minds of the Greeny types cannot comprehend is that there is ALWAYS the 240V mains connected to the home as a BACKUP.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #162 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 3:48pm
     
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:47pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:21pm:
    juliar wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:45am:
    LostSnail you are an embarrassment to the Greenies. You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

    All you are doing is reciting the feel good stuff that doesn't work you find in the piles of rubbish on the Greeny sites.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future.


    pissoff socko. You keep parroting the same bullshit message about hydrogen.

    Hydrogen hydrogen hydrogen !! Where is it socko ??? Cheesy LOL



    I thought you were all about the latest in technology, you know that is why you call everyone else luddite.


    Then what are you against the technology they use in the space program?


    Hydrogen fuel cells sh1t all over batteries, so what is your hate for the latest technology over old and barely capable technology?




    And whilst you're at it put a hydrogen fuel cell in your laptop and smart phone. That makes perfect sense too Cheesy LOL

    And aren't you libbos all about lowering costs and increasing profits ?? How much did those fuel cells cost ??

    The space program more or less had an unlimited budget so it's a stupid comparison.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #163 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 3:51pm
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 1:38pm:
    Where the weak minded Greeny types get bamboozled is they see solar panels on a home and everything keeps going on dark overcast days and at night and these simple minded soles think that solar panels can power the nation.

    What the weak minds of the Greeny types cannot comprehend is that there is ALWAYS the 240V mains connected to the home as a BACKUP.


    When everyone moves to battery storage there will less reliance on the mains and that means less profits for your coal fired generators who can't even afford to upgrade as it is Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #164 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:02pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:42am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:16am:
    Sure you can squeeze more range from the batteries at the expense of reduced lifetime which is why it was only offered in an emergency situation.



    Got a reference for that?

    Why would they offer the upgrade?

    "Owners of these vehicles can unlock that extra battery power at any time by paying for an upgrade through their MyTesla account."

    http://fortune.com/2017/09/23/tesla-battery-life-hurricane-irma/

    Now that is not a larger capacity battery, that's just the software feature.

    Nowhere can I find that it puts more stress on the battery shortening battery life.Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:16am:
    As for the cost of the free charge-ups being factored into the price one of the reasons that Tesla can do this is because renewable energy is essentially free



    Except of course for the infrastructure for the stations, the renewable features, the purchased power, the site lease. Wink



    If you really want to argue the point  show me one fossil fool vehicle vendor that offers free fillups at any fossil fool bowser ??

    Tesla knows that sunlight energy is free and they only need a one off investment in a renewable energy plant to create it. After that the energy it produces is essentially free and made available to the superchargers through offsets. It's a win win for the consumer and that's why your oily mates can never compete Wink


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #165 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:22pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
    Tesla knows that sunlight energy is free and they only need a one off investment in a renewable energy plant to create it.



    Have you seen the number of supercharging stations proposed? That's multiple "one off" investments. But only until the solar chargers lose capacity.

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
    It's a win win for the consumer


    Only if you want to part with your hard earned money up front and hope that the superchargers remain "free".
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #166 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:55pm
     
    More on those "free" super charge stations -

    "Each year, owners receive 400 kWh of free Supercharger credit, enough to drive about 1600 km. These credits cover the long distance driving needs of most owners, so road trips are completely free. Customers who travel beyond the annual credit pay a small fee to Supercharge—only a fraction of the cost of gas."

    https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/supercharger
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #167 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 5:39pm
     
    Like there was no tomorrow, LostSnail is out of control pumping the feel good garbage that doesn't work that's oozing out of the Greeny Trash sites.

    LostSnail you are an embarrassment to the Greenies as you are making them look a bit ?????

    And LostSnail if you actually understood the technical impossibility of the nonsense you pump out YOU would be embarrassed.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future. Even Malcolm is talking coal now for eternal reliable CHEAP power for ever and a day.

    Hydrogen leaves all electric for dead as it can power large trucks and semi trailers which all electric CANNOT because of the GIGANTIC battery that would take a week to recharge!!!!!

    Hydrogen is inexhaustible as it can be obtained by electrolysis of water using renewable rubbish to power the electrolysers and only steam is emitted from the hydrogen powered vehicle exhaust.

    And diesel exhaust from large trucks is a major source of pollution in big cities - this is all eliminated with clean and green hydrogen.

    And Adelaide is now trialing hydrogen buses after their all electric buses were more trouble than they are worth.

    Knock off the ridiculous Renewable Rubbish subsidies and the useless very expensive solar farms and windymills will be abandoned faster than a London train station when another terrorist bomb goes off.

    And just think of the huge amounts of very TOXIC WASTE that will result from all those abandoned useless renewable white elephants that the evil Greenies are POISONING the PLANET WITH!!!!!!

    The extremely high prices of electricity that the basket case of Sth Aust is now suffering as a result of their useless Greeny renewable rubbish that doesn't work is a stark warning to the rest of Australia to abandon this garbage before it turns Australia into a primitive industry free subsidence backward country.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now - how embarrassing for the lying hypocrite Greenies who vandalize statues of our Australian forefathers.

    Now with their SSM sham is it any wonder the repulsive Greenies are viewed with abhorrence and revulsion by the normal straight Australians ?


    ...
    And Bull S.'s plan is to RESTART the BOATS and send ELECTRICITY PRICES thru the roof with his 50% renewable rubbish.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #168 - Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:36pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:55pm:
    More on those "free" super charge stations -

    "Each year, owners receive 400 kWh of free Supercharger credit, enough to drive about 1600 km. These credits cover the long distance driving needs of most owners, so road trips are completely free. Customers who travel beyond the annual credit pay a small fee to Supercharge—only a fraction of the cost of gas."

    https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/supercharger


    Like I said it's a great deal that no fossil fool vendor has ever offered period !!
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    « Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:21am by Sir lastnail »  

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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #169 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:13am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:36pm:
    Like I said it's a good deal that no fossil fool vendor ever offers period !!



    Except it is not always FREE. Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #170 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:23am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:13am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:36pm:
    Like I said it's a good deal that no fossil fool vendor ever offers period !!



    Except it is not always FREE. Wink


    Nothing stopping you from generating the chargeup from your own rooftop solar PV Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #171 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:57am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:55pm:
    Each year, owners receive 400 kWh of free Supercharger credit, enough to drive about 1600 km. These credits cover the long distance driving needs of most owners, so road trips are completely free.


    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:23am:
    Nothing stopping you from generating the chargeup from your own rooftop solar PV


    So put PV's on my Tesla when I go on my long distance trips. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

    Wouldn't I normally charge it at home? Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #172 - Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:37pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:57am:
    lee wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 4:55pm:
    Each year, owners receive 400 kWh of free Supercharger credit, enough to drive about 1600 km. These credits cover the long distance driving needs of most owners, so road trips are completely free.


    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 12:23am:
    Nothing stopping you from generating the chargeup from your own rooftop solar PV


    So put PV's on my Tesla when I go on my long distance trips. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

    Wouldn't I normally charge it at home? Wink


    You can do what you like. Contrary to what you might wish for people are buying Teslas and that's a fact and there is nothing you libbos can do to stop the paradigm shift away from big oil towards sustainability Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #173 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 10:49am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 3:48pm:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:47pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 12:21pm:
    juliar wrote on Sep 25th, 2017 at 11:45am:
    LostSnail you are an embarrassment to the Greenies. You haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

    All you are doing is reciting the feel good stuff that doesn't work you find in the piles of rubbish on the Greeny sites.

    Hydrogen and Clean Coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future.


    pissoff socko. You keep parroting the same bullshit message about hydrogen.

    Hydrogen hydrogen hydrogen !! Where is it socko ??? Cheesy LOL



    I thought you were all about the latest in technology, you know that is why you call everyone else luddite.


    Then what are you against the technology they use in the space program?


    Hydrogen fuel cells sh1t all over batteries, so what is your hate for the latest technology over old and barely capable technology?




    And whilst you're at it put a hydrogen fuel cell in your laptop and smart phone. That makes perfect sense too Cheesy LOL

    And aren't you libbos all about lowering costs and increasing profits ?? How much did those fuel cells cost ??

    The space program more or less had an unlimited budget so it's a stupid comparison.



    You have no idea about emerging technology, fit for purpose engineering, economies of scale or pretty much anything to do with this subject do you.  Grin Grin Grin Grin


    You are truly one dumb muthafkker aren't you?

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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #174 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 3:34pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:37pm:
    Contrary to what you might wish for people are buying Teslas and that's a fact



    I have nothing against people's discretionary spending. Wink

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:37pm:
    there is nothing you libbos can do to stop the paradigm shift away from big oil towards sustainability


    Have you sorted out the sustainability on the lithium batteries yet? How many will it support in computers, vehicles, homes and now commercial back up power?
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #175 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm
     
    lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 3:34pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:37pm:
    Contrary to what you might wish for people are buying Teslas and that's a fact



    I have nothing against people's discretionary spending. Wink

    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26th, 2017 at 10:37pm:
    there is nothing you libbos can do to stop the paradigm shift away from big oil towards sustainability


    Have you sorted out the sustainability on the lithium batteries yet? How many will it support in computers, vehicles, homes and now commercial back up power?


    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you Wink
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #176 - Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:54pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you



    Let's see - projected lithium 17 years.
    Projected Coal - 150 years
    Projected Oil - with fracking more than 50 years.

    Your lithium supply issues seem to be more vulnerable than coal and oil.
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    « Last Edit: Sep 27th, 2017 at 7:00pm by lee »  
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #177 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:31am
     
    lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you



    Let's see - projected lithium 17 years.
    Projected Coal - 150 years
    Projected Oil - with fracking more than 50 years.

    Your lithium supply issues seem to be more vulnerable than coal and oil.


    That's a stupid comparison. Lithium is used for energy storage and not for energy production. Lithium batteries can be recharged many many times and proven to last the life of the car in the Tesla case. How many times can your coal and oil be recharged ?? Cheesy LOL


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #178 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:45am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:31am:
    lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you



    Let's see - projected lithium 17 years.
    Projected Coal - 150 years
    Projected Oil - with fracking more than 50 years.

    Your lithium supply issues seem to be more vulnerable than coal and oil.


    That's a stupid comparison. Lithium is used for energy storage and not for energy production. Lithium batteries can be recharged many many times and proven to last the life of the car in the Tesla case. How many times can your coal and oil be recharged ?? Cheesy LOL





    The years of reserve have nothing to do with application, it has tot do with consumption of the resource at the rate of current extraction.


    For instance, if you burn oil and coal you have 50 & 150 years worth, if you use lithium to build batteries you have 17 years worth. so after 17 years you will not be able to build any more batteries and the primary source of power storage will basically collapse.


    You do realise you are not the smartest person in the room don't you? That applies to any room you walk into, you are probably the dumbest person there.


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #179 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:56am
     
    With your dearth of technical know how, LostSnail, you are even an embarrassment to the technically obtuse Greenies.

    You haven't got a clue what you are talking about. You are just reciting the feel good stuff that doesn't work you have gullibly lapped up from the piles of rubbish on the Greeny trash sites.

    All electric cars will ALWAYS be a small gimmicky niche market in the cities where people drive to work and then recharge overnite and watch their power bill skyrocket!!!!!!

    And what about the very exciting ever present prospect of the lithium batteries catching FIRE!!!!!! And producing lithium batteries produces heaps of Greeny toxic waste pollution!!!!!

    The permanent drawback with all electric is the heavy short life battery and the very inconvenient long recharge times and the range which gets steadily shorter as the battery ages and reduces with each hill and with air conditioning and drops dramatically if something is being towed.

    In pollution prone cities in China all electric cars is being mandated to reduce pollution.

    But because all electric CANNOT be used for heavy large diesel trucks which are a major cause of pollution in cities it is very limited in application to small spartanly equipped cars.

    Enter the big boy in pollution free for every size vehicle, cars AND big trucks - HYDROGEN which is pollution free.

    Adelaide is already running hydrogen powered buses as their all electric buses are a pain in the neck to operate.

    Hydrogen can be electrolytically produced by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen and can be powered by the erratic output of otherwise useless renewable rubbish.

    Hydrogen is already being used in pollution prone California and infrastructure for hydrogen is steadily expanding.

    So hydrogen and clean coal will power Australia into the future.

    And don't overlook the vast amounts of VERY TOXIC WASTE from abandoned renewable rubbish the Greenies are poisoning the planet with!!!!!
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #180 - Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:10pm
     
    The LostSnail must be furiously fossicking thru the plies of rubbish on the Greeny Trash Sites trying to find a prepared answer.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #181 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:13am
     
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:45am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:31am:
    lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you



    Let's see - projected lithium 17 years.
    Projected Coal - 150 years
    Projected Oil - with fracking more than 50 years.

    Your lithium supply issues seem to be more vulnerable than coal and oil.


    That's a stupid comparison. Lithium is used for energy storage and not for energy production. Lithium batteries can be recharged many many times and proven to last the life of the car in the Tesla case. How many times can your coal and oil be recharged ?? Cheesy LOL





    The years of reserve have nothing to do with application, it has tot do with consumption of the resource at the rate of current extraction.


    For instance, if you burn oil and coal you have 50 & 150 years worth, if you use lithium to build batteries you have 17 years worth. so after 17 years you will not be able to build any more batteries and the primary source of power storage will basically collapse.


    You do realise you are not the smartest person in the room don't you? That applies to any room you walk into, you are probably the dumbest person there.




    Wouldn't worry about the shortage of Lithium. It is not as though it is a fuel source and you set fire to it and is gone like coal and oil Wink




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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #182 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:15am
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:10pm:
    The LostSnail must be furiously fossicking thru the plies of rubbish on the Greeny Trash Sites trying to find a prepared answer.


    It's funny how you libbos only like digging coal out of the ground for a buck. Get you to extract Lithium out of the ground for a buck and you a dead set against it Cheesy LOL
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #183 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:27am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:15am:
    juliar wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 4:10pm:
    The LostSnail must be furiously fossicking thru the plies of rubbish on the Greeny Trash Sites trying to find a prepared answer.


    It's funny how you libbos only like digging coal out of the ground for a buck. Get you to extract Lithium out of the ground for a buck and you a dead set against it Cheesy LOL



    We do mine lithium in Australia you stupid boy.


    We mine a lot more coal because there is a lot more of it and that is what the world wants more of.


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #184 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:29am
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:13am:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:45am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:31am:
    lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you



    Let's see - projected lithium 17 years.
    Projected Coal - 150 years
    Projected Oil - with fracking more than 50 years.

    Your lithium supply issues seem to be more vulnerable than coal and oil.


    That's a stupid comparison. Lithium is used for energy storage and not for energy production. Lithium batteries can be recharged many many times and proven to last the life of the car in the Tesla case. How many times can your coal and oil be recharged ?? Cheesy LOL





    The years of reserve have nothing to do with application, it has tot do with consumption of the resource at the rate of current extraction.


    For instance, if you burn oil and coal you have 50 & 150 years worth, if you use lithium to build batteries you have 17 years worth. so after 17 years you will not be able to build any more batteries and the primary source of power storage will basically collapse.


    You do realise you are not the smartest person in the room don't you? That applies to any room you walk into, you are probably the dumbest person there.




    Wouldn't worry about the shortage of Lithium. It is not as though it is a fuel source and you set fire to it and is gone like coal and oil Wink

    [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb_i4ihsJ1w[/media[media]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RWIo-j7V7c&t=2s[/media



    Can you even read?


    That reply and minutes of YouTube research had nothing at all to do with what I posted you fkking dolt.


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #185 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:41am
     
    BigOld,

    The Greeny LostSnail is showing how the technically obtuse Greenies justify their Global Warming HOAX.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #186 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:43am
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:41am:
    BigOld,

    The Greeny LostSnail is showing how the technically obtuse Greenies justify their Global Warming HOAX.



    The boy is as thick as pig sh1t and totally incapable of learning anything new.


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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #187 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:48am
     
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:29am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:13am:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:45am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:31am:
    lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you



    Let's see - projected lithium 17 years.
    Projected Coal - 150 years
    Projected Oil - with fracking more than 50 years.

    Your lithium supply issues seem to be more vulnerable than coal and oil.


    That's a stupid comparison. Lithium is used for energy storage and not for energy production. Lithium batteries can be recharged many many times and proven to last the life of the car in the Tesla case. How many times can your coal and oil be recharged ?? Cheesy LOL





    The years of reserve have nothing to do with application, it has tot do with consumption of the resource at the rate of current extraction.


    For instance, if you burn oil and coal you have 50 & 150 years worth, if you use lithium to build batteries you have 17 years worth. so after 17 years you will not be able to build any more batteries and the primary source of power storage will basically collapse.


    You do realise you are not the smartest person in the room don't you? That applies to any room you walk into, you are probably the dumbest person there.




    Wouldn't worry about the shortage of Lithium. It is not as though it is a fuel source and you set fire to it and is gone like coal and oil Wink

    [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb_i4ihsJ1w[/media[media]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RWIo-j7V7c&t=2s[/media



    Can you even read?


    That reply and minutes of YouTube research had nothing at all to do with what I posted you fkking dolt.




    The problem is nobody ever understands your questions in the first place !!

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    In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
     
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    Sir lastnail
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #188 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:54am
     
    juliar wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:41am:
    BigOld,

    The Greeny LostSnail is showing how the technically obtuse Greenies justify their Global Warming HOAX.


    Pissing down each others back as usual. Just look at Teslas share price. How is Holden going lately ? I hear their fossil fool cars are in great demand by museums Cheesy LOL
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    In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
     
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    BigOl64
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #189 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 12:04pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:48am:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:29am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:13am:
    BigOl64 wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:45am:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 28th, 2017 at 10:31am:
    lee wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 27th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
    it's not an issue just as your finite coal and oil reserves are not an issue to you



    Let's see - projected lithium 17 years.
    Projected Coal - 150 years
    Projected Oil - with fracking more than 50 years.

    Your lithium supply issues seem to be more vulnerable than coal and oil.


    That's a stupid comparison. Lithium is used for energy storage and not for energy production. Lithium batteries can be recharged many many times and proven to last the life of the car in the Tesla case. How many times can your coal and oil be recharged ?? Cheesy LOL





    The years of reserve have nothing to do with application, it has tot do with consumption of the resource at the rate of current extraction.


    For instance, if you burn oil and coal you have 50 & 150 years worth, if you use lithium to build batteries you have 17 years worth. so after 17 years you will not be able to build any more batteries and the primary source of power storage will basically collapse.


    You do realise you are not the smartest person in the room don't you? That applies to any room you walk into, you are probably the dumbest person there.




    Wouldn't worry about the shortage of Lithium. It is not as though it is a fuel source and you set fire to it and is gone like coal and oil Wink

    [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb_i4ihsJ1w[/media[media]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RWIo-j7V7c&t=2s[/media



    Can you even read?


    That reply and minutes of YouTube research had nothing at all to do with what I posted you fkking dolt.




    The problem is nobody ever understands your questions in the first place !!




    Well the only question I asked was that, did you realise just how fkking stupid you are?


    And you answered as I suspected, and confirmed you did not.



    The rest were statements and even then your reply had no relevance to what I had posted.



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    juliar
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #190 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 12:11pm
     
    BigOld,

    the Greeny types argument tactic is - if you don't agree with me then YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!

    Just like they are carrying on with the SSM fiasco and how they used to carry on about their Global Warming HOAX.

    But they are good for a stir - just look how this repeatedly humiliated technically obtuse Greeny is getting all rude and crude.

    One good thing about them is their inability makes normal people feel quite superior.


    Hydrogen and clean coal will power Australia's prosperity into the future.

    No Global Warming for 19 years now - how embarrassing for the Greenies!!!!
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    lee
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #191 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 12:20pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:13am:
    Wouldn't worry about the shortage of Lithium.



    You do realise that once all that lithium is in the batteries, there is no reserve for more new ones. You then have to rely on recycling to re manufacture batteries.

    Edit: There is a finite number of batteries.
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    « Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2017 at 12:32pm by lee »  
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #192 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 12:29pm
     
    Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 11:54am:
    Just look at Teslas share price.



    "Tesla Inc.’s Elon Musk keeps getting the green light to do what it takes to bring electric cars to the masses, regardless of how much it’s going to cost.

    The company burned through $1.16 billion in cash in the second quarter by spending on capacity for its cheapest model yet and boosting battery output. Investors fixated instead on what Musk said is coming next: Hundreds of thousands of Model 3 sedan deliveries, installations of solar roofs and an all-new semi truck to add to the lineup."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-02/tesla-burns-through-record-ca...

    You just have to love some investors. They keep believing. No profits yet.
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    juliar
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #193 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 12:43pm
     
    Reminds you of UBER which are now banned in London I saw.

    Lots of froth and bubble but very little substance. Bit like the current punching bag LostSnail.
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #194 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 3:18pm
     
    red baron wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:11pm:
    ... all power utilities should be nationalised and run by the Federal Government 




    Of course - to the
    right of centre
    voter - this is called
    SOCIALISM





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    'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
    Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


    - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
     
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #195 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 3:29pm
     
    buzzanddidj wrote on Sep 29th, 2017 at 3:18pm:
    red baron wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 4:11pm:
    ... all power utilities should be nationalised and run by the Federal Government 




    Of course - to the
    right of centre
    voter - this is called
    SOCIALISM








    And where are the billions and billions they sold them for going to come from to get them all back?


    That is called capitalism, as in you can't just take something without paying for it.
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    lee
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    Re: AGL is getting out of coal Malcolm you thickhead !
    Reply #196 - Sep 29th, 2017 at 3:50pm
     
    In socialism you don't need to pay for it.

    Having sold it in the first place, retaking it for nothing, is for them, a win-win situation.

    Of course nationalising the banks, taking your money unto themselves, would be a breach of etiquette. Wink
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