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The pandering to Muslims is pathetic. (Read 17380 times)
sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #195 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:19pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 7:53pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 7:40pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 7:25pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
So why won't you say whether you are personally offended?


I just said I was FD. As I think any normal person would be.

over a cartoon? I'd say normal people don't get offended over cartoons.  Please don't try to normalise this. It really isn't.


So Alevine, are you another one who can't possibly conceive of a cartoon that would offend you? Do I have to spell out something graphic and personal for you?

Would it make any difference if I pointed out its not the ink on the paper that matters, but the intention behind it?

Please do, gandalf. So far nothing you have presented has been offensive in any way to me.   And understanding intentions is also very much up to the individual. For instance, in your case you can't posisbly see past a cartoon of Mohamed so you immediately assume the intention is to offend you. Whereas I look at the cartoon of Mohammed showing his butt to the camera, and I can understand the message being portrayed, especially given the timing of the cartoon being published. It had nothing about offending you. Indeed it was meant to have the counter effect of reminding you it's simply a cartoon, and the humane thing to do is not become violent or aggressive about a cartoon.  Quite ingenius on behalf of Charlie Hebdo. unfortunate that it appears many muslims cannot see past the instructions in their antiquated fiction book.


Muhammad and what he represents is not personally significant for you. Obviously. But I'm sure you can think of something or someone who is personally significant for you, and what sort of depictions of them (and the intention behind it) would offend you. Use your imagination Alevine. I can promise you I can conceive of potential cartoons that would be 100 times more offensive to me personally than anything about Muhammad.

Actually given the extremes around the world, what Mohammed represents is personally significant to me as I have to live within it each and everyday. 

And no, gandalf, I cannot think of anything other than looking at the intent of the cartoonist and the message they are portraying in the cartoon.  Even if the cartoon was of my partner involved in a gangbang, and we couldn't decipher the intent of the cartoonist at the time, for me I'd simply criticise it for being silly, and we'd go on with our lives.  I doubt either of us would be offended (she may be if the caricature isn't appealing Wink ).
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Mattyfisk
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #196 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:30pm
 
How does Mohammed effect you each and every day, Alevine? I'm curious.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #197 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:33pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:15pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
I'm coming round to the belief that we need laws in some form to protect the truth.


whose truth?


A good question, but I think the Clintons being part of a paedophile ring, Michelle Obama being a trannie, and even Barrack Obama being born in Africa are nobody's truth. Those who invent these scenarios know how false they are.

and these 'news' reports are believed by majority of people?
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #198 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:33pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
How does Mohammed effect you each and every day, Alevine? I'm curious.

Just having to constantly worry my mother each time Mohammad causes another truck attack or tube attack in London, to begin with.  Would you like to see your mother worried because of Mohammed, Karnal?
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Mattyfisk
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #199 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:41pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:33pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
How does Mohammed effect you each and every day, Alevine? I'm curious.

Just having to constantly worry my mother each time Mohammad causes another truck attack or tube attack in London, to begin with.  Would you like to see your mother worried because of Mohammed, Karnal?


No, Alevine, I would not. Maybe you should introduce us. I'm sure I could put your mum's mind to rest.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #200 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:44pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:33pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
How does Mohammed effect you each and every day, Alevine? I'm curious.

Just having to constantly worry my mother each time Mohammad causes another truck attack or tube attack in London, to begin with.  Would you like to see your mother worried because of Mohammed, Karnal?


No, Alevine, I would not. Maybe you should introduce us. I'm sure I could put your mum's mind to rest.


I doubt it. So far you've shown nothing but regressive tendencies and dishonest traits. You talk about fake news and yet you create 'fake news' yourself. I don't think I can ever invite you to meet anyone in my family, karnal Sad  And I doubt you can ever convince any caring parent not to worry about terrorist attacks that may very well have direct consequences on their children.  I doubt anyone can. The only way to stop the worry is to get to the core of the issue, in this case being our dear friend Mohammed, and solve it.

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Mattyfisk
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #201 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:10pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:44pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:41pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:33pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
How does Mohammed effect you each and every day, Alevine? I'm curious.

Just having to constantly worry my mother each time Mohammad causes another truck attack or tube attack in London, to begin with.  Would you like to see your mother worried because of Mohammed, Karnal?


No, Alevine, I would not. Maybe you should introduce us. I'm sure I could put your mum's mind to rest.


I doubt it. So far you've shown nothing but regressive tendencies and dishonest traits. You talk about fake news and yet you create 'fake news' yourself. I don't think I can ever invite you to meet anyone in my family, karnal Sad  And I doubt you can ever convince any caring parent not to worry about terrorist attacks that may very well have direct consequences on their children.  I doubt anyone can. The only way to stop the worry is to get to the core of the issue, in this case being our dear friend Mohammed, and solve it.



Gee, that's not very nice. I was only trying to help, you know.

The core of the issue is the UK Daily Mail and your own obsession with Muslims AKA the tinted races.

I've asked you how we can solve this, but you haven't said. I've asked you how we can counter the porkies. You haven't said that either. I've asked you the difference between garden-variety Muslims and the conservative Islam variety, but you seem a bit vague about that as well.

You might want to tell Mum that terrorism in Australia has not been too successful. Tell her I'm in Europe now, and It's not a war zone. Tell her I live in Granville, and I've only ever met decent, nice people, including the Muslims at the prayer hall on my street.

One gave me a pamphlet once. It said that Muhammed was the final prophet for all time. I thought that was a load of bollocks, but that doesn't stop me supporting their right to say it. The Christians in the mall gave me one saying I that I'm  going to hell if I don't give my life to Jesus. I think that's pretty dumb too. Why would the God of the entire universe make contracts like that? Why would He speak only to people in the Middle East one or two thousand years ago? We need salvation ourselves, you know.

If I met your mum, I doubt we'd be discussing terrorism or religion, but that's just the way it goes. I think you and your mum should meet actual, gen-u-wine Muslims to see that they're not monsters and what the UK Daily Mail and Pickering says just isn't true.

That's my solution to most things: sit down and have a chat. The alternative of banning, killing and cestereting doesn't get anyone anywhere. At its worst, it leads to the sort of nihilistic destruction the Nazis ended up in. At best, it leads to ignorance and alienation. I'm sure that all the prophets said this, including Jesus and Muhammed.

But that's just me. You're free to terrify your mum with stories like the one in this thread - a company photoshops a cross off its food label because It's scared of being killed by Muslims. Another day, another porkie.

You're right. This countering is not easy.
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« Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:29pm by Mattyfisk »  
 
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Auggie
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #202 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:15pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
I'm coming round to the belief that we need laws in some form to protect the truth.


whose truth?


A good question, but I think the Clintons being part of a paedophile ring, Michelle Obama being a trannie, and even Barrack Obama being born in Africa are nobody's truth. Those who invent these scenarios know how false they are.


Bump
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #203 - Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:54pm
 
Auggie wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:15pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
I'm coming round to the belief that we need laws in some form to protect the truth.


whose truth?


A good question, but I think the Clintons being part of a paedophile ring, Michelle Obama being a trannie, and even Barrack Obama being born in Africa are nobody's truth. Those who invent these scenarios know how false they are.


Bump


A disgruntled Facebook employee said fake news wasn't such a problem when Facebook employed a team to track it down and delete it. He suggested that Trump would not be in power today if his team still existed.

While I'm not so sure of that, there would definitely be a benefit in creating laws that impell internet platforms to do this. Governments already do this with child porn.

Governments, particularly in Europe, are forced to do this sort of checking themselves. Teams are being employed in Germany to monitor fake news bots and programs. In Europe, correcting the lies is seen as critical to national sovereignty. After all, knowing what we now know about the Russian hacks and sophisticated propaganda targeted at the county level in the US, we can't say with any real certainty that the leadership of the US was not decided in Moscow.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #204 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 9:59pm
 
Aww typical karnal.  Amazing how you think the problem with Islam is the uk daily mail.  Grin. I'm sure women in the Middle East will agree with you, and I'm certain the majority of Egyptians who support death for apostasy are all doing so because of the uk daily mail.

And thanks very much for once again reminding us that you only live with nice Muslims. And yet when asked of their opinions you have no idea. Just that they smile at you and you think that means Islam is fantastic and no one should be concerned.  The dillusion is immense in you my dear. My mum has no issue with individual Muslim people. Nor do I, as is exemplified each and every day I discuss issues with Gandalf, who I'm sure is a great person with just some dilluded opinions.  The problem is with Islam and with conservative, jihadist and Islamist interpretations of it. Time and again this has been spelled out, and yet your thick head cannot comprehend. Such a shame, karnal.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #205 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:01pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:54pm:
Auggie wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:15pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
I'm coming round to the belief that we need laws in some form to protect the truth.


whose truth?


A good question, but I think the Clintons being part of a paedophile ring, Michelle Obama being a trannie, and even Barrack Obama being born in Africa are nobody's truth. Those who invent these scenarios know how false they are.


Bump


A disgruntled Facebook employee said fake news wasn't such a problem when Facebook employed a team to track it down and delete it. He suggested that Trump would not be in power today if his team still existed.

While I'm not so sure of that, there would definitely be a benefit in creating laws that impell internet platforms to do this. Governments already do this with child porn.

Governments, particularly in Europe, are forced to do this sort of checking themselves. Teams are being employed in Germany to monitor fake news bots and programs. In Europe, correcting the lies is seen as critical to national sovereignty. After all, knowing what we now know about the Russian hacks and sophisticated propaganda targeted at the county level in the US, we can't say with any real certainty that the leadership of the US was not decided in Moscow.


More signs that karnal has no real under of liberalism, and is intent on regressing to 1920s.
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Auggie
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #206 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:06pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:01pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:54pm:
Auggie wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:15pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
I'm coming round to the belief that we need laws in some form to protect the truth.


whose truth?


A good question, but I think the Clintons being part of a paedophile ring, Michelle Obama being a trannie, and even Barrack Obama being born in Africa are nobody's truth. Those who invent these scenarios know how false they are.


Bump


A disgruntled Facebook employee said fake news wasn't such a problem when Facebook employed a team to track it down and delete it. He suggested that Trump would not be in power today if his team still existed.

While I'm not so sure of that, there would definitely be a benefit in creating laws that impell internet platforms to do this. Governments already do this with child porn.

Governments, particularly in Europe, are forced to do this sort of checking themselves. Teams are being employed in Germany to monitor fake news bots and programs. In Europe, correcting the lies is seen as critical to national sovereignty. After all, knowing what we now know about the Russian hacks and sophisticated propaganda targeted at the county level in the US, we can't say with any real certainty that the leadership of the US was not decided in Moscow.


More signs that karnal has no real under of liberalism, and is intent on regressing to 1920s.


Says the person who wants to ban the burqa or limit the religious freedoms of Muslims? Do you want to do this, or am I mistaken?

Where's you liberalism?
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #207 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:12pm
 
Auggie wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:01pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:54pm:
Auggie wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 10:14pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:15pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
I'm coming round to the belief that we need laws in some form to protect the truth.


whose truth?


A good question, but I think the Clintons being part of a paedophile ring, Michelle Obama being a trannie, and even Barrack Obama being born in Africa are nobody's truth. Those who invent these scenarios know how false they are.


Bump


A disgruntled Facebook employee said fake news wasn't such a problem when Facebook employed a team to track it down and delete it. He suggested that Trump would not be in power today if his team still existed.

While I'm not so sure of that, there would definitely be a benefit in creating laws that impell internet platforms to do this. Governments already do this with child porn.

Governments, particularly in Europe, are forced to do this sort of checking themselves. Teams are being employed in Germany to monitor fake news bots and programs. In Europe, correcting the lies is seen as critical to national sovereignty. After all, knowing what we now know about the Russian hacks and sophisticated propaganda targeted at the county level in the US, we can't say with any real certainty that the leadership of the US was not decided in Moscow.


More signs that karnal has no real under of liberalism, and is intent on regressing to 1920s.


Says the person who wants to ban the burqa or limit the religious freedoms of Muslims? Do you want to do this, or am I mistaken?

Where's you liberalism?

How do I wish to limit the religious freedom of people? People have every right to believe in what they want to believe in. Just don't expect me to respect the belief, or give it the same credibility as other things.

The burqa, as is frequently reminded to us, is cultural and not religious. And my want to never see it is based on the fact that it is an anti feminist, illiberal garment forced upon women by decades of illiberal culture that suggests all women's bodies are just about sex and no man can control himself when seeing those bodies.   What nonsense.  Wha garbage. Anyone trying to persuade that this should in anyway be normalised In a liberal society is a complete twit.
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #208 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:19pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
The burqa, as is frequently reminded to us, is cultural and not religious.


The burqa is a religious symbol, not cultural. I agree with you on this point.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
The burqa, as is frequently reminded to us, is cultural and not religious. And my want to never see it is based on the fact that it is an anti feminist, illiberal garment forced upon women by decades of illiberal culture that suggests all women's bodies are just about sex and no man can control himself when seeing those bodies.   What nonsense.  Wha garbage. Anyone trying to persuade that this should in anyway be normalised In a liberal society is a complete twit.


Yes, I agree. I find it insulting that some people believe that a man cannot control himself.

Where I disagree is that if a person chooses to degrade him/herself by wearing a piece of clothing or by doing something to him/herself, then he/she is free to do so.

I agree that a woman can internalize her own subjugation, just as a man can. My point is that if a person has a right to end his/her life, then he/she has the right to degrade his/her own life and subjugate him/herself as well. That is what freedom is.

The freedom to make stupid choices, or even self-destructive choices.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: The pandering to Muslims is pathetic.
Reply #209 - Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:26pm
 
Auggie wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:19pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
The burqa, as is frequently reminded to us, is cultural and not religious.


The burqa is a religious symbol, not cultural. I agree with you on this point.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
The burqa, as is frequently reminded to us, is cultural and not religious. And my want to never see it is based on the fact that it is an anti feminist, illiberal garment forced upon women by decades of illiberal culture that suggests all women's bodies are just about sex and no man can control himself when seeing those bodies.   What nonsense.  Wha garbage. Anyone trying to persuade that this should in anyway be normalised In a liberal society is a complete twit.


Yes, I agree. I find it insulting that some people believe that a man cannot control himself.

Where I disagree is that if a person chooses to degrade him/herself by wearing a piece of clothing or by doing something to him/herself, then he/she is free to do so.

I agree that a woman can internalize her own subjugation, just as a man can. My point is that if a person has a right to end his/her life, then he/she has the right to degrade his/her own life and subjugate him/herself as well. That is what freedom is.

The freedom to make stupid choices, or even self-destructive choices.

Ask Gandalf if he thinks the burqa is cultural or religious. Is there any requirement to wear the burqa in any of the ahadiths or the Koran?

And this is not the same as someone choosing to end their own life.  This is someone being told to end their life. Quite a difference.
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