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Racism is real, race is not (Read 7202 times)
rhino
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #60 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:50pm
 
if the field of medical science ignored the fact that races exist then life expectancy would be half of what it is.
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mothra
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #61 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:51pm
 
rhino wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:50pm:
if the field of medical science ignored the fact that races exist then life expectancy would be half of what it is.




Oh do explain. I'm on the edge of my seat.
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rhino
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #62 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:05pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:51pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:50pm:
if the field of medical science ignored the fact that races exist then life expectancy would be half of what it is.




Oh do explain. I'm on the edge of my seat.
You can start with this. Let me know when you are finished and I will test you with a quiz with marks out of 100.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_health
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mothra
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #63 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:08pm
 
rhino wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:05pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:51pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:50pm:
if the field of medical science ignored the fact that races exist then life expectancy would be half of what it is.




Oh do explain. I'm on the edge of my seat.
You can start with this. Let me know when you are finished and I will test you with a quiz with marks out of 100.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_health



This is not merely an opinion. From a scientific perspective, the best candidate for a synonym for “race” is “subspecies” (the classification level below “species” in biology). When scientists apply the standard criteria to determine whether there are subspecies/races in humans, none are found. In chimpanzees yes, but in humans no.
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rhino
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #64 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:09pm
 
Quote:
Genetics have been proven to be a strong predictor for common diseases such as cancer, cardiovascular disease (CVD), diabetes, autoimmune disorders, and psychiatric illnesses,[22] and geneticists have been able to determine that "human genetic variation is geographically structured". The different geographic regions correlate with different races,[23] which is logical when looking at the "Out of Africa" theory and understanding how changes in genetics of a population acquire over time.



[quote]
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rhino
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #65 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:10pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:08pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:05pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:51pm:
rhino wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:50pm:
if the field of medical science ignored the fact that races exist then life expectancy would be half of what it is.




Oh do explain. I'm on the edge of my seat.
You can start with this. Let me know when you are finished and I will test you with a quiz with marks out of 100.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_health



This is not merely an opinion. From a scientific perspective, the best candidate for a synonym for “race” is “subspecies” (the classification level below “species” in biology). When scientists apply the standard criteria to determine whether there are subspecies/races in humans, none are found. In chimpanzees yes, but in humans no.
Rubbish, common scientific belief holds that race exists.
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mothra
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #66 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:10pm
 
I'll just wait for you to catch up.
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mothra
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #67 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:11pm
 
No Rhino. The difference between people is sub-race. Biologically.
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rhino
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #68 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:11pm
 
white flag accepted. I knew you had next to no knowledge about the subject. That didnt take long. lol.
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mothra
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #69 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:17pm
 
rhino wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
[quote]Genetics have been proven to be a strong predictor for common diseases such as cancer, cardiovascular disease (CVD), diabetes, autoimmune disorders, and psychiatric illnesses,[22] and geneticists have been able to determine that "human genetic variation is geographically structured". The different geographic regions correlate with different races,[23] which is logical when looking at the "Out of Africa" theory and understanding how changes in genetics of a population acquire over time.



Quote:


Rhino, understanding shared risk factors amongst groups of people is just good science.

There are, however, no example in which the human race has twice it's age span as a result of understanding the differences between races.

There are no diseases or disease states that are unique to any group that wouldn't be present members of another group providing the causal factors were the same, Rhino. Risk factors are only one variable of diagnosis.
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« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:23pm by mothra »  

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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #70 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:17pm
 
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #71 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 8:08am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:49pm:
I think Gandalf once tried to argue that he could not possibly be racist because races do not exist.


No I didn't. As usual you are clueless as to my actual arguments.


Here is Gandalf arguing that criticising Islam must be counted as racism because races don't exist:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 9:52pm:
Quote:
The racial discrimination act has been broadened to absurd levels, just like your efforts to redefine the word racism.


"racism" has to be redefined when its root word "race" literally has no meaning. And when someone who is preaching these sorts of gems of wisdom goes off and thinks that prejudice based on a linguistic group is "blatant racism" or boldly claims that "Asians" are a race - you know the word is in trouble.

Basically its because people like you are so clueless about "race", that "racism" must be redefined.

But as you say FD, 'racism' is very much real - even if it has nothing to do with your confused notion of "race". It is probably the most destructive form of prejudice that exists in society, and constantly threatens to pull it apart. That is why its important to have specific laws that guard against it.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 16th, 2016 at 11:40am:
I reluctantly start a new thread in a desperate bid to get an actual answer from FD.

As you all know, FD's favourite retort to the claim that Islamophobia is racism - is to quip that Islam is not a race. FD's position, therefore, is that racism can only be racism if it refers to actual genetic "races". FD, feel free to stop me here if I've misrepresented you in any way - since I haven't inserted any quotes yet. But I'm hoping common sense kicks in here and you won't dispute that.

It is therefore strange when FD refers to the phrase "arabia for arabs" as a case of "blatant racism". For example:

freediver wrote on Dec 14th, 2016 at 8:09pm:
but when Aussie makes a clear reference to racial groupings as well as his desire for genocide, you suddenly can't see it?


Apparently, the "clear reference to racial groupings" as well as "his desire for genocide" is all encapsulated in that one phrase "arabia for arabs" - correct FD?

Just one problem - arabs are not a race, they are a linguistic group, defined only by the language they speak - not from any genetic commonalities that might class them as a "race" - as understood by the 19th century notion of the word.

Interestingly, when I pointed out this clear contradiction in FD's position, he flayed away in deflection in typical fashion - but certainly didn't deny that it is indeed true that arabs are not a race (and therefore rendering his whole premise about racism flawed):

freediver wrote on Dec 15th, 2016 at 1:38pm:
Quote:
arabs are not a race


And inbred people are? Where are you trying to go with this Gandalf? An expose on the mental contortions of a Muslim reformer?



So FD, if you wouldn't mind just clarifying for us all, how the phrase 'arabia for arabs' is blatant racism - given that you don't dispute the fact that arabs are not a race. Thanks.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2017 at 12:44pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 1st, 2017 at 5:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 31st, 2016 at 7:49pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2016 at 8:54am:
Racism still exists even if you don't think races do Gandalf.


So what is 'racism' then FD? What are the allowed parameters?

freediver wrote on Dec 30th, 2016 at 8:54am:
Welcome to the English language Gandalf. Words have meaning.


Excellent point FD. For example, 'anti-semite' is a term that is restricted to being anti-jew, even though a 'semite' refers to all people who speak a semitic language, of which jews are just one. Welcome to the English language innit



English can be very difficult for newcomers because of these inconsistencies, but I assure you that the words still have meaning despite them. Like I said, keep at it and you'll get the hang of it eventually.


Well apparently you haven't got the hang of it yet - here you seem to accept that the term "anti-semitism" can mean something different to its literal meaning, but the same thing can't happen with the term "racism". Can you explain that?

And you haven't answered the question - what is "racism" in your view ? What is allowed and what is not? Because, no offense, you seem rather confused about it all: Islamophobia is not allowed - because muslims are not a 'race' - but 'arabia for arabs' is not just racism - its blatant racism, because... err... arabs aren't a race either, but a linguistic group? You never did explain how that works. Is it because you are completely clueless about 'race' itself - thinking, for example, that there is an "Asian" race? Has it clicked yet how utterly ridiculous that is?

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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #72 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 10:27pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
I'll just wait for you to catch up.

Rhino is correct....  YOU as usual are wrong, like so many of your ilk on so many things.

race

[reys]
noun
1.
a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.
a population so related.
3.
Anthropology.  Any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by distinctive and universal physical characteristics.  An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
4.
a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic lineage:
the Slavic race.
5.
any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.:
the Dutch race.
6.
the human race or family; humankind:
Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7.
Zoology. a variety; subspecies.
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mothra
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #73 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 10:28pm
 
Grendel wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 10:27pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
I'll just wait for you to catch up.

Rhino is correct....  YOU as usual are wrong, like so many of your ilk on so many things.

race

[reys]
noun
1.
a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.
a population so related.
3.
Anthropology.  Any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by distinctive and universal physical characteristics.  An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
4.
a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic lineage:
the Slavic race.
5.
any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.:
the Dutch race.
6.
the human race or family; humankind:
Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7.
Zoology. a variety; subspecies.



Oh good. Rhino and Grendel are in agreement. How ever will science and i counter that?
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rhino
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Re: Racism is real, race is not
Reply #74 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 10:37pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 10:28pm:
Grendel wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 10:27pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
I'll just wait for you to catch up.

Rhino is correct....  YOU as usual are wrong, like so many of your ilk on so many things.

race

[reys]
noun
1.
a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.
a population so related.
3.
Anthropology.  Any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by distinctive and universal physical characteristics.  An arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
4.
a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic lineage:
the Slavic race.
5.
any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.:
the Dutch race.
6.
the human race or family; humankind:
Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7.
Zoology. a variety; subspecies.



Oh good. Rhino and Grendel are in agreement. How ever will science and i counter that?
Why would you change precedent and not leave science out of it?
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