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In support of free speech - NOT (Read 598 times)
Yadda
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In support of free speech - NOT
Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:08pm
 

In support of free speech - NOT

...not, in Boston.



"The person who controls the public discourse controls the society."

Google




"If you don't ask the questions, you won't know the answers."

- Dr Anne Aly MP – Parliament of Australia

....and/but, if you are not permitted to     OPENLY     ask/pose ['political' or 'offensive'] questions, then what sort 'political environment' would those circumstances, both engender, and, reinforce ?

Not good ones, i would opine.



QUESTION;
What 'right' [in law] does the right to freedom speech actually give, to the individual citizen, if not the right to openly ask 'offensive' questions ?


QUESTION;
And should the right to 'freedom of speech' entitle me to openly ask questions, or to assert opinions, in the 'public space',     being questions, or opinions, which others persons may choose to 'characterise' as 'offensive' ?


QUESTION;
How could any individual seek to stop or to curb corrupt practices, in a society of men,
if individuals in that society of men are not going to be permitted, to ask 'offensive' questions ?

e.g.
If i ask, in an open 'public space' why a particular group of moslem individuals are being permitted to 'groom' and to ply underage school girls with drugs, and to then sexually abuse those underage school girls,
....is my question going to be deemed to be 'offensive', because i am a 'racist', because i am asking that question about a group of individuals who happen to be moslems ?
[this particular incidence of 'self-censure'-ship by the msm, and members of the police service, DID OCCUR, in the UK]




Our forefathers fought in wars, and sacrificed their lives, for our freedoms and our liberty.

QUESTION;
Are we, today, i.e. this generation, going to 'brush aside' or 'set aside' those freedoms and liberty, because we are too 'terrified' to offend some person or some group [of persons], which is seeking to seize the AUTHORITY to censure 'public discourse' ?





2017-Aug-20  Sun
In Boston, at a rally in support of freedom of speech,       it seems that supporters of Antifa have mounted a 'counter-protest' [at the same event], and, it seems, that
supporters of Antifa have successfully brought into question, the right to freedom of speech, of the citizens in the USA.  !!

In Boston supporters of Antifa have demonstrated [in a public place!] that [may-be] they [Antifa] have the 'political authority', in the USA, to censure [i.e. prohibit] freedom of speech, in the USA.  !!

Of course, supporters of Antifa will claim that in attending that event, their supporters were merely          exercising THEIR RIGHT
to openly protest against what is 'offensive' to their supporters.    i.e. 'hate speech'

i.e.
What has emerged in Boston, and in the 'political landscape' [in the 'West'] today,       is that some 'political' activist groups in society [i.e. in the 'West'] are asserting their [political!] 'right' to establish the new 'normal', about what type of debate is acceptable in the 'public space' [within western nations].

Antifa and their allies appear, to be seeking to [actually] enforce the new 'normal' in the 'public space',
the new 'normal', that citizens in western nations will no longer, to be permitted to openly pose 'political' or 'offensive' questions, in the 'public space', within western nations.

And if someone is so foolish to attempt to do so, there will be 'consequences'!


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #1 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:31pm
 
Yadda wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:08pm:

"The person who controls the public discourse controls the society."

Google




here....

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1217813944/415#415

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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cods
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #2 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:47pm
 
yadda I believe in a decent society... and sorry old chum but that means RULES....if you are going to allow FOS to have no rules no boundaries where does it stop....

as we see by the amount of minority \groups we have today.....there are many demanding people out there...

give it some thought....WORDS/SPEECH  can do so much harm...used in the wrong way at the wrong time..

I dont think insulting people is a good way to go..
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #3 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:06pm
 
Cods can you give some examples of when the government should put people in jail for having the wrong opinion? And also explain how jailing people for having the wrong opinion is somehow better than the "great harm" caused by words?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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John Smith
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #4 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:57pm
 
there is no free speech. It's a myth
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REPORTER: The condition of the budget will not be an excuse for breaking promises?

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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #5 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 4:05pm
 
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it....Voltaire
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Yadda
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #6 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 4:16pm
 
cods wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:47pm:
yadda I believe in a decent society... and sorry old chum but that means RULES....if you are going to allow FOS to have no rules no boundaries where does it stop....

as we see by the amount of minority \groups we have today.....there are many demanding people out there...

give it some thought....WORDS/SPEECH  can do so much harm...used in the wrong way at the wrong time..

I dont think insulting people is a good way to go..




cods,

I have been banned at a number of public online forums.

I have 'attended' OzPol since 2008.




cods,

Is it your opinion that freediver should have banned me from OzPol, years ago ?

hmmm?



.



cods,

After some of my 'offensive' posts were deleted, this is what i once posted on the ABC Q&A online forum....
[eventually, i was banned, and ALL of my previous posts on that taxpayer funded public forum were removed]

Quote:

WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF THIS TYPE OF 'MODERATION' IN A [POLITICAL] FORUM?

One obvious consequence is that ALL DEBATE on a particular issue [on such a forum, within that forum] can be 'guided'.

The debate is 'guided', to the point where only 'acceptable' views, will influence THE DIRECTION OF THE DEBATE.

In other words, what is ostensibly [to an outside observer] an open, online forum, for politial debate, becomes a *pseudo* forum for politial debate.




THE WHOLE POINT OF FREE AND OPEN DEBATE

What the ABC forum MODERATORS are effectively saying is,

"Your point of view is [pick one] untrue/offensive/too contentious. And i won't allow such views to be expressed here."

My argument to the MODERATORS is,
ABC forum MODERATORS may disagree with my opinions, and even say that my opinions are untrue or 'offensive' to some.

But if they feel that, then shouldn't they, or somebody else, be prepared to make that argument, IN THE FORUM, against any points i present?

If i do regard ISLAM as an 'offensive' philosophy, then in a 'free and open' forum, shouldn't i be permitted to express that point of view, and to demonstrate, why i hold that particular view about ISLAM?

And if the detractors [of certain comments i have made] have a legitimate complaint, then let them air it [IN THE FORUM], and have their complaint tested in debate!
.....FOR ALL TO SEE.


Shouldn't the ABC forum MODERATORS allow those people who frequent the ABC forum pages, to decide for themselves if my [or anyone elses] arguments have any merit [or not]?

If what i say is untrue, or ridiculous, that fact, will soon become apparent to everyone, when what i say, is exposed to the light of [widespread] scrutiny.





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #7 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 7:34pm
 



Quote:

By Robert Spencer on Nov 08, 2017 04:33 pm

Stanford fascists claim Robert Spencer is endangering fascist student who tore down posters about his event


Stanford fascists are working themselves up into a fine froth over my scheduled appearance.



They can’t stand the prospect of someone whose views dissent from those of the Leftist establishment being heard on their campus.

It’s telling: it’s a tacit admission that they can’t refute what I say, and so they’re increasingly desperate to shut me down......




https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/11/stanford-fascists-claim-robert-spencer-is-end...





Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1503198507/0#0
Quote:


"The person who controls the public discourse controls the society."

Google




"If you don't ask the questions, you won't know the answers."

- Dr Anne Aly MP – Parliament of Australia


....and/but, if you are not permitted to     OPENLY     ask/pose ['political' or 'offensive'] questions, then what sort 'political environment' would those circumstances, both engender, and, reinforce ?

Not good ones, i would opine.





Political Leftists, and their ANTIFA allies, circa 2017, are demonstrating that they would prefer a political environment, here in the WEST!!!, that would mirror the political environment found in the very worst type of fascist state!

Where all opposing views and opposing ideas are suppressed,      ....even violently, even murderously.

The type of political environment which is seen within many moslem majority states.

Turkey, circa 2017, for example.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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.JaSin.
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #8 - Nov 9th, 2017 at 7:39pm
 
.
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Like, totally 'OWNED' the Pecker Head & Smith Chips !!!
 
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Yadda
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #9 - Nov 12th, 2017 at 9:21am
 


Yet another assault, against human liberty.....


Quote:

By Robert Spencer on Nov 09, 2017 05:42 pm

Stanford: Black Community Services Center creates “space for those that need a place to vent” over Robert Spencer event




This email went out at Stanford this afternoon.

I’m not set to speak until Tuesday, and the snowflakes are already running to safe spaces.



This is an American university in 2017: all too many students are so afraid of ideas that challenge the ones they’ve been indoctrinated to accept that they become emotional cripples in the face of them.

They can’t refute what I say.




They wouldn’t even know how to frame a rational and evidence-based refutation of my work, as their Leftist professors haven’t taught them how to do such things, and for the most part don’t know how themselves.



Not only can the students who are in a crisis of rage and fear over my impending arrival not refute what I say, they don’t even know what I say, as the pieces here and here make clear.




They just know that the people they trust have told them I am very, very bad, and the lemmings nod and run to their “place to vent,” quivering with fear over what they imagine will be the “emotional impact” of my appearance.




What a travesty.

What a joke.

And they call it a university.





https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/11/stanford-black-community-services-center-crea...




CONSIDER;
The meaning, of words, that are used in common conversation in our society,
used as 'descriptors'.....



Dictionary;
university = = a high-level educational institution in which students study for degrees and
where academic research is done.



Dictionary;
research = = the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources
in order to establish facts and reach conclusions.






QUESTION;
Why have human beings decided to ascribe very particular meanings, to very particular words ?


ANSWER;  [....i would suggest]
In order that we may better try to understand the true meaning, of what we encounter, around us, in this world.



And yet, i would argue
        that we live in an age of man, where there is currently a rebellion going on, among much of mankind,
against reason.




.




Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1293669294/0#0
Quote:

A simple definition of SANITY/INSANITY.



Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Raven
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #10 - Nov 13th, 2017 at 4:54am
 
Here's the thing Yadda, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence. There are limits to freedom of speech. The most classic example is you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre.

The Australian Constitution does not explicitly protect freedom of expression. However, the High Court has held that an implied freedom of political communication exists as an indispensible part of the system of representative and responsible government created by the Constitution. It operates as a freedom from government restraint, rather than a right conferred directly on individuals.
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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.
 
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Yadda
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #11 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 10:03am
 



If any person   'stands against ISLAM',   to every moslem, that person becomes a new hated, 'friend of SATAN'.


IMAGE....
...


Quote:

By Robert Spencer on Nov 26, 2017 07:05 pm

Saudi Arabia’s Dar al-Hayat newspaper on Robert Spencer: “The Likud anti-Christ”



There is an American website through which American Likud Jews, the enemies of Arabs and Muslims, as well as supporters of the criminal state of thieves, which is called Israel, operate.

Among its work is something called “Jihad Watch,” which conjures up.....propaganda in order to link Islam with terrorism and extremism in people’s minds...

The site recently published what was written by the Likud anti-Christ, Robert Spencer...



How does one attain to such notoriety, and become so hated?




Stand against jihad terror and Sharia oppression,       and the entire weight of the Leftist intelligentsia and fantastically moneyed Islamic elites will fall upon you.

Get the whole story in my new book Confessions of an Islamophobe, out this week: order your copy here......

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/11/saudi-arabias-dar-al-hayat-newspaper-on-rober...


THE TRUTH.....
If any person chooses to 'stand against ISLAM',         to every moslem, that person becomes a new hated, 'friend of SATAN'.

n.b.
'stand against ISLAM' = = to encourage open, and critical examination of ISLAM, and ISLAM's 'religious' doctrines.




QUESTION;
What is the purported 'accusation',   against Jihad Watch, and against Robert Spencer ?


Quote:

"....“Jihad Watch,”.....conjures up anything it can.....in order to link Islam with terrorism and extremism in people’s minds..."





QUESTION;
WHAT IS THE HONEST COUNTER ARGUMENT, TO THAT PREVIOUS ACCUSATION ?



ANSWER;
Moslems        believe,       that they [moslems] become virtuous, by murdering people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

That is what ISLAM teaches, to its followers.


-------- >


ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....


"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06


ISLAMIC LAW TEXT....


"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/#3.110

n.b.
"Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #12 - Nov 28th, 2017 at 10:03am
 


QUESTION;
WHAT DOES ISLAM TEACH, TO ITS FOLLOWERS;



ANSWER;

That the infidel [every infidel!] is an enemy of Allah.            [< ------ a principle doctrine of mainstream ISLAM]


That teaching, is mainstream ISLAMIC doctrine.


Moslems        believe,       that they [moslems] become virtuous, by murdering people who do not believe as they [moslems] believe.

That is what ISLAM teaches, to its followers.


That, is 100% TRUE.



.



Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1509883266/40#40
Quote:

ISLAM's foundational religious texts, have plainly been interpreted by moslem scholars to indicate,
that those who have embraced ISLAM,
have embraced enmity, and hatred, and hostility and warfare and murder, towards those who reject ISLAM.



Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian.

Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."

And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us".

These texts are not fossils from a distant past.

They are not dead letters.

They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world.
...DDA


Google



Google;
we are pledging to wage war against all mankind, al-Tabari





.



Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1456614488/0#0
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1511512282/2#2
Quote:

“Islam came for the good of humanity.  So if someone doesn't like good we fight them.”



Faruq Khalil Muhammad, explaining why he supports terrorism against infidels.





.



THE TRUTH....


Every moslem in Australia, is a moslem.


A moslem is a follower of ISLAM.       < -------- dictionary definition.


Yadda said....
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1431117115/1#1
Quote:

"every moslem in Australia is a latent, wanna-be homicidal maniac"

- Yadda



QUESTION;
What about the innocent moslems ?

IMO, [logically] there are no innocent moslems [among persons who have come to the age of consent], and yet still declare themselves to be moslems.

How so [logically] ?

QUESTION;
How credible is it that a person who is devout enough to insist that he is a moslem, is unaware of what ISLAM promotes, and is unaware of what the principle tenets of ISLAM are ?


QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],      ...to a philosophy which transforms human beings, into homicidal maniacs ?


QUESTION;
How 'innocent' is a person who agrees to give aid and comfort [and to give their own 'power'],     ...to a philosophy which claims that murdering, in the cause of religious bigotry, is a religious virtue ?





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Frank
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #13 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:18pm
 
Who support free speech absolutely?

Er.... intelligent whites, Jews.

Against.... efniks and the thick and Muslims.




...


...

http://anepigone.blogspot.com.au/2017/11/free-speech-absolutism.html
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Re: In support of free speech - NOT
Reply #14 - Dec 5th, 2017 at 8:24pm
 
How do they define an absolutist?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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