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Black Slaves... (Read 7729 times)
President Elect, The Mechanic
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Black Slaves...
Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:49pm
 
ever wonder who was the first person in America was to have a Black Slaves???
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #1 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:57pm
 

African Americans at Jamestown







The first documented arrival of Africans to the colony of Virginia was recorded by John Rolfe: "About the latter end of August, a Dutch man of Warr of the burden of a 160 tunes arrived at Point-Comfort, the Comandors name Capt Jope, his Pilott for the West Indies one Mr Marmaduke an Englishman. … He brought not any thing but 20. and odd Negroes, w[hich] the Governo[r] and Cape Merchant bought for victuall[s]. The year was 1619, and as an institution slavery did not yet exist in Virginia. Slavery as we know it today, evolved gradually, beginning with customs rather than laws. To further shed light on how this institution evolved legally, from indentured servitude to life long servitude, the following laws and/or facts are given as well as other sources on 17th century servitude among Blacks in Virginia.







1619 Arrival of "20 and odd" Africans in late August 1619, not aboard a Dutch ship as reported by John Rolfe, but an English warship, White Lion, sailing with a letters of marque issued to the English Captain Jope by the Protestant Dutch Prince Maurice, son of William of Orange. A letters of marque legally permitted the White Lion to sail as a privateer attacking any Spanish or Portuguese ships it encountered. The 20 and odd Africans were captives removed from the Portuguese slave ship, San Juan Bautista, following an encounter the ship had with the White Lion and her consort, the Treasurer, another English ship, while attempting to deliver its African prisoners to Mexico. Rolfe's reporting the White Lion as a Dutch warship was a clever ruse to transfer blame away from the English for piracy of the slave ship to the Dutch.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #2 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:58pm
 
No.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #3 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm
 
The first man in America to have Legal slaves was a black man...
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« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:35pm by President Elect, The Mechanic »  

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #4 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:43pm
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...

Can you prove that?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #5 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:01pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...

Can you prove that?


Yes...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #6 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:01pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...

Can you prove that?


Yes...

So, ?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #7 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm
 

how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #8 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:04pm
 
The natives had plenty of slaves.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #9 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:04pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?

For your own safety!
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #10 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:06pm
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...



rubbish. Aztecs had slaves long before 1619  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #11 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:08pm
 
John Smith wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:06pm:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...



rubbish. Aztecs had slaves long before 1619  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
We are talking about Africans muppet. Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #12 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:25pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:04pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?

For your own safety!


but, i would own them.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #13 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm
 
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #14 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:45pm
 

well, the blacks are a good supply for black slaves.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #15 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:59pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:08pm:
John Smith wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:06pm:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...



rubbish. Aztecs had slaves long before 1619  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
We are talking about Africans muppet. Roll Eyes


?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #16 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:02pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:25pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:04pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?

For your own safety!


but, i would own them.

Unless your neighbours found out...  Shocked
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #17 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #18 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:13pm
 
Gordon wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:59pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:08pm:
John Smith wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:06pm:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...



rubbish. Aztecs had slaves long before 1619  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
We are talking about Africans muppet. Roll Eyes


?
I picture him like that Gordy. Only with Pecca's hand up his bum operating his mouth.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #19 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:17pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?



yes, some blacks in africa stole other blacks and sold them.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #20 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:18pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:25pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:04pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?

For your own safety!


but, i would own them.

Unless your neighbours found out...  Shocked



why, they would have their own ?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #21 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:38pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?


Google.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #22 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:43pm
 
Quote:
The first legal slave owner in America was black and he owned white slaves


Anthony Johnson (BC 1600 – 1670) was an Angolan who achieved freedom in the early 17th century Colony of Virginia.

Johnson was captured in his native Angola by an enemy tribe and sold to Arab (Muslim) slave traders.

He was eventually sold as an indentured servant to a merchant working for the Virginia Company.

Sometime after 1635, Antonio and Mary gained their freedom from indenture. Antonio changed his name to Anthony Johnson.

In 1651 Anthony Johnson owned 250 acres, and the services of four white and one black indentured servants.

The black indentured servant John Casor (Casar, Cazarao and Corsala) demanded that Johnson release him after his seven years of indenture.

In March of 1654, according to Delmarva Settlers, Anthony’s servant, a man named John Casar requested that Johnson release him from his indenture because it had long expired past the usual seven years.

Johnson replied that he knew of no indenture and that Casar was to be his servant for life.

Anthony Johnson’s neighbors, George and Robert Parker, stated that they knew of another indenture for the said Casar to a planter on the other side of the bay.

They continued to threaten Johnson with the loss of the servant’s cattle if he were to deny him his freedom.

Johnson, with the influence from his family, released the servant, and even went to see that John Casar received his freedom dues. Freedom dues are materials and supplies given to the freed person in order for them to start their new lives with the necessary materials.

In the case of John Casar, clothing and corn.[110] But after careful reflection, Johnson was certain that Casar was his servant for life; a slave.

Johnson then sued the Parker brothers for unlawfully taking his property from him, and since there were no other indentures for John Casar, he was returned to the Johnsons.

The courts ruled in favor of Anthony Johnson and declared John Casor his property in 1655. Casor became the first person of African descent in Britain’s Thirteen Colonies to be declared as a slave for life as the result of Johnson’s civil suit.

In the case of Johnson v. Parker, the court of Northampton County upheld Johnson’s right to hold Casor as a slave, saying in its ruling of 8 March 1655:

“This daye Anthony Johnson negro made his complaint to the court against mr. Robert Parker and declared that hee deteyneth his servant John Casor negro under the pretence that said negro was a free man.

The court seriously consideringe and maturely weighing the premisses, doe fynde that the saide Mr. Robert Parker most unjustly keepeth the said Negro from Anthony Johnson his master …

It is therefore the Judgement of the Court and ordered That the said John Casor Negro forthwith returne unto the service of the said master Anthony Johnson, And that Mr. Robert Parker make payment of all charges in the suit.”

In a 1916 article, John H. Russell wrote, “Indeed no earlier record, to our knowledge, has been found of judicial support given to slavery in Virginia except as a punishment for a crime.”

It’s not clear if Anthony Johnson also kept his white indentured servants as slaves.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #23 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:47pm
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:43pm:
Quote:
The first legal slave owner in America was black and he owned white slaves

........
It’s not clear if Anthony Johnson also kept his white indentured servants as slaves.



DO you ever read anything you find on the web?  Grin Grin
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #24 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:02pm
 
....these days the slaves are the minority that pays the majority of income tax
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #25 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:05pm
 
And still get richer and richer and gain a bigger and bigger share of the national wealth.

Time to play another tune Swaggy.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #26 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:26pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:05pm:
And still get richer and richer and gain a bigger and bigger share of the national wealth.

Time to play another tune Swaggy.


......by denying the facts you are just condoning slavery.

In your mind slavery is ok when it benefits the majority.

I'm sure the majority in the Confederate States of America thought the same way....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #27 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 2:34am
 
300 years ago?  Who cares... we are all slaves in some way....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #28 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 2:37am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?


White slaves are better....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #29 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:09am
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:26pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:05pm:
And still get richer and richer and gain a bigger and bigger share of the national wealth.

Time to play another tune Swaggy.


......by denying the facts you are just condoning slavery.

In your mind slavery is ok when it benefits the majority.

I'm sure the majority in the Confederate States of America thought the same way....

Are you saying the majority owned slaves?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #30 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:12am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?



yes, some blacks in africa stole other blacks and sold them.


Nice qualifying word  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Get a life freak  Wink
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #31 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:13am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:18pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:02pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:25pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:04pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?

For your own safety!


but, i would own them.

Unless your neighbours found out...  Shocked



why, they would have their own ?

You are guessing, are you not?

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #32 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:14am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:38pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?


Google.

What and find ten thousand different stories:  Grin
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #33 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:15am
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:02pm:
....these days the slaves are the minority that pays the majority of income tax

Swaggy has a barrow to push: get in line loser  Grin
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #34 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:17am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:05pm:
And still get richer and richer and gain a bigger and bigger share of the national wealth.

Time to play another tune Swaggy.

Swaggy will one day wake up and realise:
he's a total joke.................."!!!SURPRISE...!"  Grin
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #35 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:20am
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:26pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:05pm:
And still get richer and richer and gain a bigger and bigger share of the national wealth.

Time to play another tune Swaggy.


......by denying the facts you are just condoning slavery.

In your mind slavery is ok when it benefits the majority.

I'm sure the majority in the Confederate States of America thought the same way....

sWAGGY DENIES THE FACT HE IS A COMPLETE JOKE  Grin


sWAGGY DENIES THE FACT HE IS A COMPLETE JOKE  Grin



sWAGGY DENIES THE FACT HE IS A COMPLETE JOKE  Grin





sWAGGY DENIES THE FACT HE IS A COMPLETE JOKE  Grin
i
sWAGGY DENIES THE FACT HE IS A COMPLETE JOKE  Grin



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    *** YAY,... go blue blooded acumen and stuff  Grin
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #36 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:21am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 2:34am:
300 years ago?  Who cares... we are all slaves in some way....

Possibly because we're all fascistic  Grin
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #37 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 8:40am
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?


Because of progressive developments in farming technology making black slaves obsolete.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #38 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 8:55am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 8:40am:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
how come you are not allowed to own black slaves anymore ?


Because of progressive developments in farming technology making black slaves obsolete.

I think the real answer is democracy won!
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #39 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:33am
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:14am:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:38pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?


Google.

What and find ten thousand different stories:  Grin


You'll figure it out.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #40 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:38am
 
Africans even keep other Africans as slaves even today.



Wiki-

Slavery in Africa
Slavery has existed in Africa for many centuries, and still continues in the current day in some countries.

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa, as they were in much of the ancient world. In most African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and were given certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade and Atlantic slave trade began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa.[1]
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #41 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:33am:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:14am:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:38pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?


Google.

What and find ten thousand different stories:  Grin


You'll figure it out.

All I ever found was the french passed some law that allowed the trade and some blacks did hunt others to sell into the trade but in no way did I find any numbers saying that the majority were hunted/trapped/sold by blacks into the trade instead of whitey!



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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #42 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:22pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
Gordon wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:59pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:08pm:
John Smith wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:06pm:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
The first man in America to have slaves was a black man...



rubbish. Aztecs had slaves long before 1619  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
We are talking about Africans muppet. Roll Eyes


?
I picture him like that Gordy. Only with Pecca's hand up his bum operating his mouth.


that's not the first time you've admitted to daydreaming about my bum Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #43 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:23pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:38am:
Africans even keep other Africans as slaves even today.



Wiki-

Slavery in Africa
Slavery has existed in Africa for many centuries, and still continues in the current day in some countries.

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa, as they were in much of the ancient world. In most African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and were given certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade and Atlantic slave trade began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa.[1]

Fair enough then: so does this actually mean the majority were sold into slavery by blacks themselves?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #44 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:24pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:38am:
Africans even keep other Africans as slaves even today.



Wiki-

Slavery in Africa
Slavery has existed in Africa for many centuries, and still continues in the current day in some countries.

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa, as they were in much of the ancient world. In most African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and were given certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade and Atlantic slave trade began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa.[1]

...either way: that's ugly  Shocked
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #45 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 2:46pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:24pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:38am:
Africans even keep other Africans as slaves even today.



Wiki-

Slavery in Africa
Slavery has existed in Africa for many centuries, and still continues in the current day in some countries.

Systems of servitude and slavery were common in parts of Africa, as they were in much of the ancient world. In most African societies where slavery was prevalent, the enslaved people were not treated as chattel slaves and were given certain rights in a system similar to indentured servitude elsewhere in the world. When the Arab slave trade and Atlantic slave trade began, many of the local slave systems began supplying captives for slave markets outside Africa.[1]

...either way: that's ugly  Shocked
It's an ugly world.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #46 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:33am:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:14am:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:38pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
The Americans got most of their slaves from black people.

How can you confirm that?


Google.

What and find ten thousand different stories:  Grin


You'll figure it out.


That is very helpful... like giving someone who is on fire, a glib "try not to burn" answer.

Well done.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #47 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:43am
 
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:49pm:
ever wonder who was the first person in America was to have a Black Slaves???



Slavery in Australia


Slavery in Australia mainly occurred on sugar plantations in the northern areas of the country. Along with many Indigenous Australians, many people from the islands surrounding Australia were kidnapped and forced to work.
Indigenous Australians, Malaysians, Timorese and Micronesians were caught and sold as slave-labour for the pearling industry of north western Australia.
The generally coercive recruitment was similar to the press-gangs once employed by the Royal Navy in England. Some 55,000 to 62,500 South Sea Islanders were taken to Australia as slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Australia
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GOD BLESS AMERICA
 
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #48 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:38am
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:43am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:49pm:
ever wonder who was the first person in America was to have a Black Slaves???



Slavery in Australia


Slavery in Australia mainly occurred on sugar plantations in the northern areas of the country. Along with many Indigenous Australians, many people from the islands surrounding Australia were kidnapped and forced to work.
Indigenous Australians, Malaysians, Timorese and Micronesians were caught and sold as slave-labour for the pearling industry of north western Australia.
The generally coercive recruitment was similar to the press-gangs once employed by the Royal Navy in England. Some 55,000 to 62,500 South Sea Islanders were taken to Australia as slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Australia
Australia had white slaves. No mention of that?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #49 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:58am
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:09am:
Swagman wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:26pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:05pm:
And still get richer and richer and gain a bigger and bigger share of the national wealth.

Time to play another tune Swaggy.


......by denying the facts you are just condoning slavery.

In your mind slavery is ok when it benefits the majority.

I'm sure the majority in the Confederate States of America thought the same way....

Are you saying the majority owned slaves?


The majority elected the government that condoned slavery. 

The point is that in a democracy the majority rules.  51% can vote to enslave the other 49%




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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #50 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 11:06am
 
Quote:
The point is that in a democracy the majority rules.  51% can vote to enslave the other 49%


Only if you put mob rule above every other human value. Do you?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #51 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 11:30am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 11:06am:
Quote:
The point is that in a democracy the majority rules.  51% can vote to enslave the other 49%


Only if you put mob rule above every other human value. Do you?


Just because one can doesn't necessarily mean one does.

The Parliament could introduce slavery tomorrow.  (what the average person perceives as slavery anyway as it already exists covertly)

SSM is not legal in Australia because the majority has ruled it so.  Only the majority can overturn this.

If the SSM no vote wins then the parliament will likely vote to maintain the status quo and thereby the rights of a minority will be taken away.




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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #52 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 12:02pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:38am:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:43am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:49pm:
ever wonder who was the first person in America was to have a Black Slaves???



Slavery in Australia


Slavery in Australia mainly occurred on sugar plantations in the northern areas of the country. Along with many Indigenous Australians, many people from the islands surrounding Australia were kidnapped and forced to work.
Indigenous Australians, Malaysians, Timorese and Micronesians were caught and sold as slave-labour for the pearling industry of north western Australia.
The generally coercive recruitment was similar to the press-gangs once employed by the Royal Navy in England. Some 55,000 to 62,500 South Sea Islanders were taken to Australia as slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Australia
Australia had white slaves. No mention of that?


That's true British convicts and Irish political prisoners.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #53 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 7:32pm
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 12:02pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:38am:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:43am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:49pm:
ever wonder who was the first person in America was to have a Black Slaves???



Slavery in Australia


Slavery in Australia mainly occurred on sugar plantations in the northern areas of the country. Along with many Indigenous Australians, many people from the islands surrounding Australia were kidnapped and forced to work.
Indigenous Australians, Malaysians, Timorese and Micronesians were caught and sold as slave-labour for the pearling industry of north western Australia.
The generally coercive recruitment was similar to the press-gangs once employed by the Royal Navy in England. Some 55,000 to 62,500 South Sea Islanders were taken to Australia as slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Australia
Australia had white slaves. No mention of that?


That's true British convicts and Irish political prisoners.


.....and progressive tax payers
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #54 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:10pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 7:32pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 12:02pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:38am:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:43am:
President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:49pm:
ever wonder who was the first person in America was to have a Black Slaves???



Slavery in Australia


Slavery in Australia mainly occurred on sugar plantations in the northern areas of the country. Along with many Indigenous Australians, many people from the islands surrounding Australia were kidnapped and forced to work.
Indigenous Australians, Malaysians, Timorese and Micronesians were caught and sold as slave-labour for the pearling industry of north western Australia.
The generally coercive recruitment was similar to the press-gangs once employed by the Royal Navy in England. Some 55,000 to 62,500 South Sea Islanders were taken to Australia as slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Australia
Australia had white slaves. No mention of that?


That's true British convicts and Irish political prisoners.


.....and progressive tax payers


Probably this is rather Feudalism than the slavery.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #55 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:38am
 
...it's ochlocracy and slavery
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #56 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:32am
 
Every White man should have his coffle of Kaffirs to carry his burdens....

Tax the rich to death!!  90% on all income over $250k.... get the nation back on track... let the fat cats pay their way.... time for some genuine tough decisions.....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #57 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:05am
 
There were slavery in England way before even the Romans.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #58 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:53pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:32am:
Every White man should have his coffle of Kaffirs to carry his burdens....

Tax the rich to death!!  90% on all income over $250k.... get the nation back on track... let the fat cats pay their way.... time for some genuine tough decisions.....


So you are one that believes slavery is acceptable as long as the majority is happy? Sad

...mind you that seems to be the consensus of the Left
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #59 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:56pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:38am:
...it's ochlocracy and slavery

Back to swaggys made up words  Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #60 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:58pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:53pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:32am:
Every White man should have his coffle of Kaffirs to carry his burdens....

Tax the rich to death!!  90% on all income over $250k.... get the nation back on track... let the fat cats pay their way.... time for some genuine tough decisions.....


So you are one that believes slavery is acceptable as long as the majority is happy? Sad

...mind you that seems to be the consensus of the Left

Swaggy has no idea  Grin Grin
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #61 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:30pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:38am:
...it's ochlocracy and slavery

Back to swaggys made up words  Roll Eyes



Ochlocracy - wikipedia

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #62 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:36pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:30pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:38am:
...it's ochlocracy and slavery

Back to swaggys made up words  Roll Eyes



Ochlocracy - wikipedia


As a pejorative for majoritarianism, it is akin to the Latin phrase mobile vulgus meaning "the fickle crowd", from which the English term "mob" originally was derived in the 1680s.
Ochlocracy is synonymous in meaning and usage to the modern, informal term "mobocracy", which arose in the 18th century as a colloquial neologism.
Ochlocracy, or mob rule, is often incorrectly equated with tyranny of the majority; however, ochlocracy involves illegal action and does not necessitate a majority.



Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #63 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:38pm
 
I think swaggy should be no longer heard ....  Grin Grin
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #64 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm
 
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.

So, little wonder that 'slavery' came back to West Africa and the West Africans were more than willing to sell their people off for free transportation to other parts of the world.
West Africa still practices Slavery today.

So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.

Black India also taught 'mathematics' to the Arabs who then taught Europe and other places.

Black is the colour of Maths.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #65 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:04pm
 
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.

So, little wonder that 'slavery' came back to West Africa and the West Africans were more than willing to sell their people off for free transportation to other parts of the world.
West Africa still practices Slavery today.

So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.

Black India also taught 'mathematics' to the Arabs who then taught Europe and other places.

Black is the colour of Maths.


And it is all wrong slavery.  In fact, it existed in every corner of the Earth, by every race at some point in time.   The confederates are blamed for their portion of slavery only, rather than slavery as a whole.  So, you need to make this distinction right, credit is where credit due. 

The only reason why the far right KKK and neo nazi is using confederates as their idol, is because, the confederates was fighting for proliferation of slavery in America, whereas the Lincoln lead North is against it.  And to KKK, and neo nazi, they believe that black should only ever be slaves anyway, and that somehow they are more superior. 

Now if there is any other honorable cause that some of you here thinks the confederates went into a civil war about, then its drown out by the KKK and the neo nazis.  And for that, there are no one else to blame.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #66 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:34pm
 
The basic issue of the Confederacy is the Rights of States v Federal Government, and the Right (or otherwise)_ of a Federal Government to refuse to permit a signatory State to withdraw from a Union... and conversely the Right or otherwise of a signatory State to withdraw from tht Union on a majority vote of its people...

This has extended and morphed into the current malaise of the West in its (oft-times) Federal Governments taking on more and more power unto themselves..... and since one man's meat is another man's poison... they gotta be taking power from someone... and in most cases it's the ordinary person.  Those who oppose the White Rights campaigners fail to see that they are shooting themselves in the foot by creating of them an enemy rather than an ally.

Buggar all to do with slavery... that is the facile image that the opponents of this apparent white 'supremacy' movement latch on to so as to discredit them and refuse to discuss their issues.

Remember The Free State of Jones ( a very bad movie) ---- "Every Man is someone else's Niggruh!" (unless he stands free)....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #67 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm
 
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #68 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:41pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:34pm:
The basic issue of the Confederacy is the Rights of States v Federal Government, and the Right (or otherwise)_ of a Federal Government to refuse to permit a signatory State to withdraw from a Union... and conversely the Right or otherwise of a signatory State to withdraw from tht Union on a majority vote of its people...

This has extended and morphed into the current malaise of the West in its (oft-times) Federal Governments taking on more and more power unto themselves..... and since one man's meat is another man's poison... they gotta be taking power from someone... and in most cases it's the ordinary person.  Those who oppose the White Rights campaigners fail to see that they are shooting themselves in the foot by creating of them an enemy rather than an ally.

Buggar all to do with slavery... that is the facile image that the opponents of this apparent white 'supremacy' movement latch on to so as to discredit them and refuse to discuss their issues.

Remember The Free State of Jones ( a very bad movie) ---- "Every Man is someone else's Niggruh!" (unless he stands free)....


There is a consensus among historians, even Conservatives, that the Civil War (and thereby the formation of the Confederacy) was about slavery.

A State's right to do what? To owe and purchase slaves.

The idea that the Civil War wasn't about slavery is propagated by revisionist historians.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #69 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:54pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:34pm:
The basic issue of the Confederacy is the Rights of States v Federal Government, and the Right (or otherwise)_ of a Federal Government to refuse to permit a signatory State to withdraw from a Union... and conversely the Right or otherwise of a signatory State to withdraw from tht Union on a majority vote of its people...

This has extended and morphed into the current malaise of the West in its (oft-times) Federal Governments taking on more and more power unto themselves..... and since one man's meat is another man's poison... they gotta be taking power from someone... and in most cases it's the ordinary person.  Those who oppose the White Rights campaigners fail to see that they are shooting themselves in the foot by creating of them an enemy rather than an ally.

Buggar all to do with slavery... that is the facile image that the opponents of this apparent white 'supremacy' movement latch on to so as to discredit them and refuse to discuss their issues.

Remember The Free State of Jones ( a very bad movie) ---- "Every Man is someone else's Niggruh!" (unless he stands free)....

You're saying the slavery issue is a strawman ?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #70 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:54pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:30pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:38am:
...it's ochlocracy and slavery

Back to swaggys made up words  Roll Eyes



Ochlocracy - wikipedia



Ochlocracy (Greek: ὀχλοκρατία, okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) or mob rule is the rule of government by mob. (Wikipedia)

So Australia has double, liberal and labour, mob democracy.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #71 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:56pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.

                          ***(...i simply can't/don't want to believe slavery existed... )

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #72 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:57pm
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:54pm:
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:30pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:38am:
...it's ochlocracy and slavery

Back to swaggys made up words  Roll Eyes



Ochlocracy - wikipedia



Ochlocracy (Greek: ὀχλοκρατία, okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) or mob rule is the rule of government by mob. (Wikipedia)

So Australia has double, liberal and labour, mob democracy.

aye aye captain dh  Shocked Shocked
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #73 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:00pm
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:54pm:
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:30pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:38am:
...it's ochlocracy and slavery

Back to swaggys made up words  Roll Eyes



Ochlocracy - wikipedia



Ochlocracy (Greek: ὀχλοκρατία, okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) or mob rule is the rule of government by mob. (Wikipedia)

So Australia has double, liberal and labour, mob democracy.


As opposed to America where one individual can convulse the emotions of an entire nation?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #74 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:15pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:54pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:34pm:
The basic issue of the Confederacy is the Rights of States v Federal Government, and the Right (or otherwise)_ of a Federal Government to refuse to permit a signatory State to withdraw from a Union... and conversely the Right or otherwise of a signatory State to withdraw from tht Union on a majority vote of its people...

This has extended and morphed into the current malaise of the West in its (oft-times) Federal Governments taking on more and more power unto themselves..... and since one man's meat is another man's poison... they gotta be taking power from someone... and in most cases it's the ordinary person.  Those who oppose the White Rights campaigners fail to see that they are shooting themselves in the foot by creating of them an enemy rather than an ally.

Buggar all to do with slavery... that is the facile image that the opponents of this apparent white 'supremacy' movement latch on to so as to discredit them and refuse to discuss their issues.

Remember The Free State of Jones ( a very bad movie) ---- "Every Man is someone else's Niggruh!" (unless he stands free)....

You're saying the slavery issue is a strawman ?


Where existeth this Slaverye in modern America?  Slavery's been  outlawed there for 150 years or more....  It's not white rights people shooting Blacks - it's cops, who also are shooting others... .

At that level of society, they are all sucking wind, Bro... poverty is a separate issue from past slavery....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #75 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:22pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:41pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:34pm:
The basic issue of the Confederacy is the Rights of States v Federal Government, and the Right (or otherwise)_ of a Federal Government to refuse to permit a signatory State to withdraw from a Union... and conversely the Right or otherwise of a signatory State to withdraw from tht Union on a majority vote of its people...

This has extended and morphed into the current malaise of the West in its (oft-times) Federal Governments taking on more and more power unto themselves..... and since one man's meat is another man's poison... they gotta be taking power from someone... and in most cases it's the ordinary person.  Those who oppose the White Rights campaigners fail to see that they are shooting themselves in the foot by creating of them an enemy rather than an ally.

Buggar all to do with slavery... that is the facile image that the opponents of this apparent white 'supremacy' movement latch on to so as to discredit them and refuse to discuss their issues.

Remember The Free State of Jones ( a very bad movie) ---- "Every Man is someone else's Niggruh!" (unless he stands free)....


There is a consensus among historians, even Conservatives, that the Civil War (and thereby the formation of the Confederacy) was about slavery.

A State's right to do what? To owe and purchase slaves.

The idea that the Civil War wasn't about slavery is propagated by revisionist historians.


Incorrect.  it was about Secession by Southern States from the Union.  Slavery was a contributing factor in Secession, but the issue of the war was Secession.

Saying a 'consensus of historians' are now saying it was about slavery pure and simple is disingenuous... and THAT is revisionism.  The North did not declare abolition of slavery until 1865...

Hello....

What has slavery, abolished in 1865, got to do with modern day America, other than as a facile handle to mount opposition to some group?  Are these 'antifa' people suggesting that the White rights people are demanding a return of slavery.. or that they should just continue to bow and apologise for an institution dead for 150 years?

Sounds familiar somehow...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #76 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:29pm
 
Quote:
At that level of society, they are all sucking wind, Bro... poverty is a separate issue from past slavery....


That's what Conservatives say. In fact, they attribute poverty among Blacks as being due to lack of fathers in the home. The out of wedlock birth rate among Blacks is 75%.

Do you agree with this?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #77 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:31pm
 
uh oh...

Quote:
Barack Obama’s ancestors owned slaves.

A genealogist at the Library of Congress discovered in 2008 that Barack Obama’s ancestors owned slaves.
The Chicago Tribune reported:

Many people know that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s father was from Kenya and his mother from Kansas.

But an intriguing sliver of his family history has received almost no attention until now: It appears that forebears of his white mother owned slaves, according to genealogical research and census records.


Undecided
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #78 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:32pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Saying a 'consensus of historians' are now saying it was about slavery pure and simple is disingenuous... and THAT is revisionism.  The North did not declare abolition of slavery until 1865...


Are you now disputing the facts as agreed upon by historians? Even conservatives in America agree that it was about slavery (at least almost exclusively about slavery). States rights was peripheral to this issue.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:22pm:
The North did not declare abolition of slavery until 1865...


Many northern States abolished slavery much earlier than 1865. There were free blacks living in the North for decades before then.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:22pm:
re these 'antifa' people suggesting that the White rights people are demanding a return of slavery.. or that they should just continue to bow and apologise for an institution dead for 150 years?


The issue with the whole rally was that there were neo-nazis and white supremacists among the protesters. Many were wearing KKK clothing, etc. Antifa was campaigning against the supposed rise of Fascism in America.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #79 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:35pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:29pm:
Quote:
At that level of society, they are all sucking wind, Bro... poverty is a separate issue from past slavery....


That's what Conservatives say. In fact, they attribute poverty among Blacks as being due to lack of fathers in the home. The out of wedlock birth rate among Blacks is 75%.

Do you agree with this?


Not discussing poverty in isolation and I have no view of Blacks, their fathers, and the out of wedlock rate - I'm setting the record right as regards the War of Secession.  There are many poor whites as well.... poverty crosses all boundaries.... so I return to my position that the 'antifa' or whatever would be better served in forming an alliance with disaffected Whites, rather than playing Confrontation.

Their interests are the same - more personal power and a greater share of the pie.

Ain't nobody gonna win that one... but a lot of people gonna die before they work that out.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #80 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:47pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:15pm:
Where existeth this Slaverye in modern America? 


...in the tax system
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #81 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:56pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:15pm:
Where existeth this Slaverye in modern America? 


...in the tax system


90% on gross income for the fat..... make the hard decisions.... bring the country back on a level playing field and bring the economy up to scratch....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #82 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:01pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:35pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:29pm:
Quote:
At that level of society, they are all sucking wind, Bro... poverty is a separate issue from past slavery....


That's what Conservatives say. In fact, they attribute poverty among Blacks as being due to lack of fathers in the home. The out of wedlock birth rate among Blacks is 75%.

Do you agree with this?


Not discussing poverty in isolation and I have no view of Blacks, their fathers, and the out of wedlock rate - I'm setting the record right as regards the War of Secession.  There are many poor whites as well.... poverty crosses all boundaries.... so I return to my position that the 'antifa' or whatever would be better served in forming an alliance with disaffected Whites, rather than playing Confrontation.

Their interests are the same - more personal power and a greater share of the pie.

Ain't nobody gonna win that one... but a lot of people gonna die before they work that out.


You really have no idea at all what Antifa is and what they stand for do you.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #83 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:02pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:01pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:35pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:29pm:
Quote:
At that level of society, they are all sucking wind, Bro... poverty is a separate issue from past slavery....


That's what Conservatives say. In fact, they attribute poverty among Blacks as being due to lack of fathers in the home. The out of wedlock birth rate among Blacks is 75%.

Do you agree with this?


Not discussing poverty in isolation and I have no view of Blacks, their fathers, and the out of wedlock rate - I'm setting the record right as regards the War of Secession.  There are many poor whites as well.... poverty crosses all boundaries.... so I return to my position that the 'antifa' or whatever would be better served in forming an alliance with disaffected Whites, rather than playing Confrontation.

Their interests are the same - more personal power and a greater share of the pie.

Ain't nobody gonna win that one... but a lot of people gonna die before they work that out.


You really have no idea at all what Antifa is and what they stand for do you.

Many of them are anarchists. They have various ideas. It's not just anti fascism.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #84 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:03pm
 
Thanks for that, Captain Obvious.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #85 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:07pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:03pm:
Thanks for that, Captain Obvious.
no worries. Smiley
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #86 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:45pm
 
Antifa is a coalition of various left wing groups with a common agenda to censor their opposition using violence and intimidation.

Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.


You make it sound like a conscious. Slavery was simply the norm. It was the economic institution that the Europeans encountered when they ventured out into the world. The near-absence of slavery in western Europe at the time was the exception. The Founders actually wrote freedom into the US constitution. That is the opposite of shortsighted. They achieved with the pen what they were unable to achieve at the time with the sword.
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« Last Edit: Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:50pm by freediver »  

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #87 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:45pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.


You make it sound like a conscious. Slavery was simply the norm. It was the economic institution that the Europeans encountered when they ventured out into the world. The near-absence of slavery in western Europe at the time was the exception. The Founders actually wrote freedom into the US constitution. That is the opposite of shortsighted. They achieved with the pen what they were unable to achieve at the time with the sword.


And yet slavery still persisted long after the constitution.

It took America a civil war and 600,000 dead to abolish slavery. Britain did it with an Act of Parliament.

Thats our legacy - the British legacy.

And you want to sell out the Crown for that?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #88 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:53pm
 
Yes.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #89 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:57pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:53pm:
Yes.


So, you think having a legacy of slavery is better than NOT having one just because in the former  case we're a republic whereas in the latter we're a monarchy?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #90 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:58pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:53pm:
Yes.


So, you think having a legacy of slavery is better than NOT having one just because in the former  case we're a republic whereas in the latter we're a monarchy?


I want the Monarchy gone from any formal role in Australia.  That's hardly a surprise.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #91 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:32pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:58pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:57pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:53pm:
Yes.


So, you think having a legacy of slavery is better than NOT having one just because in the former  case we're a republic whereas in the latter we're a monarchy?


I want the Monarchy gone from any formal role in Australia.  That's hardly a surprise.


You didn't answer my question: which legacy would you prefer?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #92 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:39pm
 
I didn't read beyond your obvious prejudice in favour of the UK.   

I want them gone from any formal Australian role.......at just about any price.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #93 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:39pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:52pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:45pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.


You make it sound like a conscious. Slavery was simply the norm. It was the economic institution that the Europeans encountered when they ventured out into the world. The near-absence of slavery in western Europe at the time was the exception. The Founders actually wrote freedom into the US constitution. That is the opposite of shortsighted. They achieved with the pen what they were unable to achieve at the time with the sword.


And yet slavery still persisted long after the constitution.

It took America a civil war and 600,000 dead to abolish slavery. Britain did it with an Act of Parliament.

Thats our legacy - the British legacy.

And you want to sell out the Crown for that?


This is merely a demonstration of the resilience of social institutions. If you wanted to make some other point, perhaps you should spell it out.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #94 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:39pm:
I didn't read beyond your obvious prejudice in favour of the UK.   

I want them gone from any formal Australian role.......at just about any price.


Ah dodging it!

I know the answer: you would choose the republican option. Slavery is the necessary price for your republic.

That makes you more deluded than me.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #95 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:45pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:43pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:39pm:
I didn't read beyond your obvious prejudice in favour of the UK.   

I want them gone from any formal Australian role.......at just about any price.


Ah dodging it!

I know the answer: you would choose the republican option. Slavery is the necessary price for your republic.

That makes you more deluded than me.


No.....just (as you say) dodging your 'price' question.  Simple.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #96 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:39pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:52pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:45pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.


You make it sound like a conscious. Slavery was simply the norm. It was the economic institution that the Europeans encountered when they ventured out into the world. The near-absence of slavery in western Europe at the time was the exception. The Founders actually wrote freedom into the US constitution. That is the opposite of shortsighted. They achieved with the pen what they were unable to achieve at the time with the sword.


And yet slavery still persisted long after the constitution.

It took America a civil war and 600,000 dead to abolish slavery. Britain did it with an Act of Parliament.

Thats our legacy - the British legacy.

And you want to sell out the Crown for that?


This is merely a demonstration of the resilience of social institutions. If you wanted to make some other point, perhaps you should spell it out.


My point is that we are where we are because of our British heritage. Had we gone at it alone we would've been worst off considerably.

And you want to spit on that legacy with a banana republic.

Well done! Congratulations.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #97 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:54pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:43pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:39pm:
I didn't read beyond your obvious prejudice in favour of the UK.   

I want them gone from any formal Australian role.......at just about any price.


Ah dodging it!

I know the answer: you would choose the republican option. Slavery is the necessary price for your republic.

That makes you more deluded than me.


No.....just (as you say) dodging your 'price' question.  Simple.


There it is.

You're not Australian, Aussie. You're a bloody traitor.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #98 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:59pm
 
You're both bloody traitors.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #99 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:59pm
 
Nah......I'm just a bloke who wants to see the end of the Monarchy/UK in Australian politics.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #100 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 9:07pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:52pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:39pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:52pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:45pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.


You make it sound like a conscious. Slavery was simply the norm. It was the economic institution that the Europeans encountered when they ventured out into the world. The near-absence of slavery in western Europe at the time was the exception. The Founders actually wrote freedom into the US constitution. That is the opposite of shortsighted. They achieved with the pen what they were unable to achieve at the time with the sword.


And yet slavery still persisted long after the constitution.

It took America a civil war and 600,000 dead to abolish slavery. Britain did it with an Act of Parliament.

Thats our legacy - the British legacy.

And you want to sell out the Crown for that?


This is merely a demonstration of the resilience of social institutions. If you wanted to make some other point, perhaps you should spell it out.


My point is that we are where we are because of our British heritage. Had we gone at it alone we would've been worst off considerably.

And you want to spit on that legacy with a banana republic.

Well done! Congratulations.


What?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #101 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 9:08pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:02pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:01pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:35pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:29pm:
Quote:
At that level of society, they are all sucking wind, Bro... poverty is a separate issue from past slavery....


That's what Conservatives say. In fact, they attribute poverty among Blacks as being due to lack of fathers in the home. The out of wedlock birth rate among Blacks is 75%.

Do you agree with this?


Not discussing poverty in isolation and I have no view of Blacks, their fathers, and the out of wedlock rate - I'm setting the record right as regards the War of Secession.  There are many poor whites as well.... poverty crosses all boundaries.... so I return to my position that the 'antifa' or whatever would be better served in forming an alliance with disaffected Whites, rather than playing Confrontation.

Their interests are the same - more personal power and a greater share of the pie.

Ain't nobody gonna win that one... but a lot of people gonna die before they work that out.


You really have no idea at all what Antifa is and what they stand for do you.

Many of them are anarchists. They have various ideas. It's not just anti fascism.


Like here, Antifa and the White rights and many other  superficially one-issue groups are  the result of massive disenfranchisement and alienation,  and the reasons are manifold, but at the bottom is the clear sense of a lack of personal power and control over one's own life etc, and the clear sense that power is more and more being resided in the hands of fewer and fewer, and that this is a clear policy of government.

What Antifa and The White Guys share is that alienation and lack of personal power - but rather than looking to the root causes of disempowerment by government fiat etc,, they are (in time-dishonoured fashion these days) being side-tracked into petty bickering between themselves, rather than presenting a united front...

Perhaps oddly, common cause exists between 'disenfranchised' Muslims here and many 'ordinary Australians', who are, quite literally, in the same boat.... but some within those groups prefer to remain locked into petty tribal feuding and blaming, rather than seeking the answers to the issues.

Same with the Blacks in the US - 'Whitey' is not to blame for their problems... that blame rests at a much higher level than the ordinary street Whitey out there.... and yet they heap the shootings by cops, servants of the instruments of power, somehow on those same similarly disenfranchised guys, and throw in out-dated references to slavery, as if somehow these White guys must continue to pay for past oppression.

As I said - all this sounds startlingly familiar.... and rests entirely in the concept of 'corporate/group responsibility' for purported ills....

"The furnaces blazed day and night, burning the bodies...we were that close to going out... but there was one man... he taught us to fight... to work together.... to destroy Skynet..... his name was John Connor.. your son, Sarah...."


What we need here is a REAL leader...... me?  I'm a planner and a strategist..... but damned good at tactics, too.

"Antifa is a far-left militant political movement of autonomous, self-described anti-fascist groups in the United States. The term is loosely used to refer to anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobia, as well as anarchist and anti-capitalist groups."


Sounds like a pretty piss poor group to me.... though I suppose, mothra, that you have some fine definition for them... maybe they just need to get a real job....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #102 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 9:26pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 9:08pm:
What Antifa and The White Guys share is


...they are both collectivist associations that use bullying and violence to impose their political ideologies on others.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #103 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 11:05pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 9:26pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 9:08pm:
What Antifa and The White Guys share is


...they are both collectivist associations that use bullying and violence to impose their political ideologies on others.



At least you can see it both ways, unlike some, for whom there are 'good' nasties' and 'bad' nasties... depending on the label you attach to them, of course..... call a man a NAZI White supremacist and he is a demon.. call another man doing the same thing a fearless freedom fighter against slavery etc, and he is a god....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #104 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:55am
 
Does anyone else not see it bizarre that a State may voluntarily enter into a Federation, and in doing so, lose the right to voluntarily withdraw from that Federation?  (i.e Con-Federacy?)...

That's like saying the moment I sign up for a job, I lose the right to resign.....

Mine eyes have seen the glory.. but many haven't..... the differences between the North and South were more economic based than ideologically based, and Lincoln said times many that his concern was the preservation of the Union...........

Cast the scales off your eyes - we are all some man's Niggruh unless we stand up as free men....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #105 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:26am
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:52pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:45pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:40pm:
Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
Slavery was first put into practice by the West Africans - the Nig'gers of Niger and Nigeria.
These West Africans taught the Arabs who then taught other parts of the world - the concept of 'Slavery'.


That's because there was a demand for slaves from both the Islamic world and the Western world. Local tribal leaders didn't care about other tribes (or maybe even their own).

Jasin wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 3:47pm:
So the 'Confederates' were to blame for the Africans in America being 'slaves'?  Grin
Now the Confederates are the slaves.


No, in fact, the whole country was to blame for slavery. It was incredibly short-sighed of the Founders to maintain the institution of slavery.


You make it sound like a conscious. Slavery was simply the norm. It was the economic institution that the Europeans encountered when they ventured out into the world. The near-absence of slavery in western Europe at the time was the exception. The Founders actually wrote freedom into the US constitution. That is the opposite of shortsighted. They achieved with the pen what they were unable to achieve at the time with the sword.


And yet slavery still persisted long after the constitution.

It took America a civil war and 600,000 dead to abolish slavery. Britain did it with an Act of Parliament.

Thats our legacy - the British legacy.

And you want to sell out the Crown for that?


British did genocide on American Indians and Australian Aborigines.
They killed all together about 60 million including about 10 million black slaves.
That's why we in USA got rid of them unfortunately Australia is still under British rules and that's why British nationalism and racism is still very present in Australian society.

Here is an example from Hoffman tennis cup final in Australian city Pert in 2016 and that's how the international community observed that:


Confused Nation at Hoffman Cup Final 2016

"It was display of art and creative identity of a Kyrgios tennis genius.
At the same time It was really sad to watch how British colonial nationalism is so present in Australia.
British flags were absolutely everywhere and the crowd supported and celebrated Murray like their own giving an impression that the match was played rather in London than in Australian city Perth.
It was uncomfortable to watch how Australia was so far of being an independent nation with own flag, own head of state and national identity.
That night Kyrgios was only one who looked like Australian patriot among all others closet poms who came out of cupboard showing their real racist face.
With the majority of the Perth Arena crowd supporting the British star over their countryman, the 20-year-old appeared to take offence at some insulting words hurled at him by unfriendly spectators.
For an outsider it was sad to watch this masochistic tirade of confused "nation" and very shameful for someone who feels as a real Australian patriot.
I am not sure whether Australia deserves such talent as Nick is".

https://www.facebook.com/nkyrgios/

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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:00pm by capitosinora »  

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #106 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:02pm
 
Incorrect, the British did not commit genocide against native Americans. In fact, they established treaties with them and respected them.

The real harsh treatment of Native Americans came from the US after independence. Just look at the trail of tears which was executed by Andrew Jackson. You seem to be ignoring the facts of the history of your own country.

Second, it was NOT the British who committed genocide against the indigenous peoples of Australia: it was the local settlers who did it. Britain actually tried to prevent harsh treatment.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #107 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:27pm
 
Quote:
it was the local settlers who did it.


Martians, were they?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #108 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:08pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:27pm:
Quote:
it was the local settlers who did it.


Martians, were they?


No they were the local colonists in Australia. Don't forget after the American experiment Britain could only do so much to control its colonies.

These are the facts, Aussie. Facts don't care about your feelings.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #109 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:15pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:08pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:27pm:
Quote:
it was the local settlers who did it.


Martians, were they?


No they were the local colonists in Australia. Don't forget after the American experiment Britain could only do so much to control its colonies.

These are the facts, Aussie. Facts don't care about your feelings.


"Local colonists" were Martian or British?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #110 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:18pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:15pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:08pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:27pm:
Quote:
it was the local settlers who did it.


Martians, were they?


No they were the local colonists in Australia. Don't forget after the American experiment Britain could only do so much to control its colonies.

These are the facts, Aussie. Facts don't care about your feelings.


"Local colonists" were Martian or British?


They were British subjects. The question here isn't what their legal status or identity was, it's about to what extent London had control over the British colonists.

This fact is backed up by British historian Niall Ferguson.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #111 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:21pm
 
Nah....the question is.....who was responsible for their actions here in Australia.  The answer is........British authority here in Australia, representing the Crown.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #112 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:32pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:21pm:
Nah....the question is.....who was responsible for their actions here in Australia.  The answer is........British authority here in Australia, representing the Crown.


So, let me ask this question: who's responsible for the stolen generations? The British Government or the Australian Government?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #113 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:45pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:32pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:21pm:
Nah....the question is.....who was responsible for their actions here in Australia.  The answer is........British authority here in Australia, representing the Crown.


So, let me ask this question: who's responsible for the stolen generations? The British Government or the Australian Government?


Given when that occurred....circa the 1950s.......clearly, the Australian Government.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #114 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:51pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:45pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:32pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 1:21pm:
Nah....the question is.....who was responsible for their actions here in Australia.  The answer is........British authority here in Australia, representing the Crown.


So, let me ask this question: who's responsible for the stolen generations? The British Government or the Australian Government?


Given when that occurred....circa the 1950s.......clearly, the Australian Government.


So, at what point did Australia become a 'so-called' independent nation? At what point did Britain become a foreign power?

As I've tried to explain to you before: those that are currently Commonwealth Realm nations are NOT nations in the European term of word. The British model of responsible government for the colonies was unique and therefore no dictionary or other standard definition of a nation can be applied accurately to Australia or Canada, or NZ etc.

When the early Governments of the colonies were established in Australia in the 19th century, Britain theoretically had control over the colonies, but because of the American experience they were reluctant to get involved. In fact, there were instances in which Britain tried to persuade the local colonial governments in Australia to stop their violence against the Indigenous Peoples of Australia, and were successful in a couple of cases (not all).

Therefore, Britain cannot be held responsible for the actions of colonists in Australia, given that they even if they tried to do so, the colonists would've either ignored them or launched a civil war for independence.
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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm by Auggie »  

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #115 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm
 
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #116 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #117 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #118 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


Australia was then a sovereign nation and the UK was a foreign power. 

In 1948, the Australian Citizenship Act sorted the matter of citizenship out.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #119 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


Surely, you see the absurdity of your arguments? Federation was not and never was construed or deemed to be 'independence' from Britain. It only sought to be a 'self-governing' dominion. The original 6 crowns of the UK gave up powers to a 7th crown - the Commonwealth, which was by the way, still a Crown.

The facts are clear: we are not, never have been nor never will be an independent nation under the Constitution as it stands, no matter how many Acts you pass or how many High Court decisions you make. Only a referendum by the people can determine our status as a nation, and that is how it should be.

Once we become a Republic, then we will be an independent nation. Until that time, we a self-governing Dominion under the United Kingdom, and are British subjects.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #120 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #121 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #122 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


Australia was then a sovereign nation and the UK was a foreign power. 

In 1948, the Australian Citizenship Act sorted the matter of citizenship out.


Incorrect, Aussie. This is just factually not accurate. The Queen issude a proclamation establishing the Commonwealth of Australia. The Imperial Parliament passed the Constitution Act, which is still in force today. All our laws we have today are given legal force by the Constitution, which itself is an Act of the Imperial Parliament; therefore all our laws derive legal force from the Imperial Parliament.

If the Imperial Parliament repealed the Constitution Act tomorrow, all of our laws would be invalid technically.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #123 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:22pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


Wrong about what exactly?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #124 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:25pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:22pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


Wrong about what exactly?


That never had slavery in Australia. We had perfectly legal slavery up until the '70s There are people still alive who were slaves.

I would have thought you would have heard about it? It's not exactly esoteric.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #125 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:27pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:22pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


Wrong about what exactly?


That never had slavery in Australia. We had perfectly legal slavery up until the '70s There are people still alive who were slaves.

I would have thought you would have heard about it? It's not exactly esoteric.


I actually don't know what you're talking about. Can you be more specific please?  Are you talking about the Stolen Generations?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #126 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:29pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


Australia was then a sovereign nation and the UK was a foreign power. 

In 1948, the Australian Citizenship Act sorted the matter of citizenship out.


Incorrect, Aussie. This is just factually not accurate. The Queen issude a proclamation establishing the Commonwealth of Australia. The Imperial Parliament passed the Constitution Act, which is still in force today. All our laws we have today are given legal force by the Constitution, which itself is an Act of the Imperial Parliament; therefore all our laws derive legal force from the Imperial Parliament.

If the Imperial Parliament repealed the Constitution Act tomorrow, all of our laws would be invalid technically.


Technically....it can't.  No Jurisdiction, as the horse bolted in 1901 when Australia became a sovereign state.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #127 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:31pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:22pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


Wrong about what exactly?


That never had slavery in Australia. We had perfectly legal slavery up until the '70s There are people still alive who were slaves.

I would have thought you would have heard about it? It's not exactly esoteric.


I actually don't know what you're talking about. Can you be more specific please?  Are you talking about the Stolen Generations?



http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2016/12/01/10-things-you-should-know-about-sl...

That should get you started.

But just for the sake of argument, we still have slavery in Australia. It is estimated that at least 3,000 people are currently living as slaves in Australia.

However, that is illegal. The slavery i am referring to was perfectly legal.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #128 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:38pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:29pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


Australia was then a sovereign nation and the UK was a foreign power. 

In 1948, the Australian Citizenship Act sorted the matter of citizenship out.


Incorrect, Aussie. This is just factually not accurate. The Queen issude a proclamation establishing the Commonwealth of Australia. The Imperial Parliament passed the Constitution Act, which is still in force today. All our laws we have today are given legal force by the Constitution, which itself is an Act of the Imperial Parliament; therefore all our laws derive legal force from the Imperial Parliament.

If the Imperial Parliament repealed the Constitution Act tomorrow, all of our laws would be invalid technically.


Technically....it can't.  No Jurisdiction, as the horse bolted in 1901 when Australia became a sovereign state.


Technically, it can. Practically, it wouldn't matter, I agree. But it would cause a Constitutional Crisis.

The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 is an Act of the Imperial Parliament which gave legal status to the Commonwealth of Australia. It's the same with Canada, NZ and other Realm nations.

Australia never became a sovereign state. We became a self-governing Federation under the Crown of the UK. These are two different things.

You're making stuff up.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #129 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:45pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:31pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:22pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


Wrong about what exactly?


That never had slavery in Australia. We had perfectly legal slavery up until the '70s There are people still alive who were slaves.

I would have thought you would have heard about it? It's not exactly esoteric.


I actually don't know what you're talking about. Can you be more specific please?  Are you talking about the Stolen Generations?



http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2016/12/01/10-things-you-should-know-about-sl...

That should get you started.

But just for the sake of argument, we still have slavery in Australia. It is estimated that at least 3,000 people are currently living as slaves in Australia.

However, that is illegal. The slavery i am referring to was perfectly legal.


No doubt, Indigenous People were treated horrendously under these Government schemes. The intention of the scheme was not to enslave them. The abuse they suffered was at the hands of individual householders. You'll notice that the article states that some Indigenous peoples were pay 'nothing' or 'paid very little.' This indicates that this was at the discretion of the person for whom the indentured servant worked. It was NOT government policy to institute legal slavery, or to made them work for 'nothing'.

Second, Indigenous peoples were not bought or sold like cattle as blacks were in the United States. This is a key distinction of slavery.

I totally agree that the treatment was abhorrent, reprehensible and unacceptable. It was exploitation of labour, not slavery.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #130 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:50pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:38pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:29pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


Australia was then a sovereign nation and the UK was a foreign power. 

In 1948, the Australian Citizenship Act sorted the matter of citizenship out.


Incorrect, Aussie. This is just factually not accurate. The Queen issude a proclamation establishing the Commonwealth of Australia. The Imperial Parliament passed the Constitution Act, which is still in force today. All our laws we have today are given legal force by the Constitution, which itself is an Act of the Imperial Parliament; therefore all our laws derive legal force from the Imperial Parliament.

If the Imperial Parliament repealed the Constitution Act tomorrow, all of our laws would be invalid technically.


Technically....it can't.  No Jurisdiction, as the horse bolted in 1901 when Australia became a sovereign state.


Technically, it can. Practically, it wouldn't matter, I agree. But it would cause a Constitutional Crisis.

The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 is an Act of the Imperial Parliament which gave legal status to the Commonwealth of Australia. It's the same with Canada, NZ and other Realm nations.

Australia never became a sovereign state. We became a self-governing Federation under the Crown of the UK. These are two different things.

You're making stuff up.


No, I am using terms you don't like because of your built in bias.  You can't let go of the UK......we did that in 1901.

'Self governing' sovereign nation, and formerly a collection of British Colonies.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #131 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:54pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:02pm:
Incorrect, the British did not commit genocide against native Americans. In fact, they established treaties with them and respected them.

The real harsh treatment of Native Americans came from the US after independence. Just look at the trail of tears which was executed by Andrew Jackson. You seem to be ignoring the facts of the history of your own country.

Second, it was NOT the British who committed genocide against the indigenous peoples of Australia: it was the local settlers who did it. Britain actually tried to prevent harsh treatment.


As far as US history is concerned it is useless to argue with your arrogance as a result of your ignorance.
Australian "Settlers" were either British (English and Scottish) convicts or Irish political prisoners.
They can not be blamed for atrocities on local Aboriginal people because they were forcefully transported to the prison called Australia and then forced by British elite to be involved, together with British soldiers, in carefully planed genocide on local Aboriginal population with promised freedom or to return home.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #132 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:55pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:50pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:38pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:29pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


Australia was then a sovereign nation and the UK was a foreign power. 

In 1948, the Australian Citizenship Act sorted the matter of citizenship out.


Incorrect, Aussie. This is just factually not accurate. The Queen issude a proclamation establishing the Commonwealth of Australia. The Imperial Parliament passed the Constitution Act, which is still in force today. All our laws we have today are given legal force by the Constitution, which itself is an Act of the Imperial Parliament; therefore all our laws derive legal force from the Imperial Parliament.

If the Imperial Parliament repealed the Constitution Act tomorrow, all of our laws would be invalid technically.


Technically....it can't.  No Jurisdiction, as the horse bolted in 1901 when Australia became a sovereign state.


Technically, it can. Practically, it wouldn't matter, I agree. But it would cause a Constitutional Crisis.

The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 is an Act of the Imperial Parliament which gave legal status to the Commonwealth of Australia. It's the same with Canada, NZ and other Realm nations.

Australia never became a sovereign state. We became a self-governing Federation under the Crown of the UK. These are two different things.

You're making stuff up.


No, I am using terms you don't like because of your built in biasYou can't let go of the UK......we did that in 1901.

'Self governing' sovereign nation, and formerly a collection of British Colonies.


Fact: Australia's Constitution is an Act of the Imperial Parliament. The Commonwealth of Australia was given legal existence by the Queen.

Fact: Queen Elizabeth II is the Head of State of Australia. She is also the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.

Fact: Britain legally does not consider us 'foreigners'.

Fact: Each State of Australia derives direct sovereignty from the Crown.

Fact: All MPs, and military personnel must swear an oath of allegiance to the Sovereign.
--------
Show me evidence that Australia is an 'independent' nation?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #133 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:56pm
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:54pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 12:02pm:
Incorrect, the British did not commit genocide against native Americans. In fact, they established treaties with them and respected them.

The real harsh treatment of Native Americans came from the US after independence. Just look at the trail of tears which was executed by Andrew Jackson. You seem to be ignoring the facts of the history of your own country.

Second, it was NOT the British who committed genocide against the indigenous peoples of Australia: it was the local settlers who did it. Britain actually tried to prevent harsh treatment.


As far as US history is concerned it is useless to argue with your arrogance as a result of your ignorance.
Australian "Settlers" were either British (English and Scottish) convicts or Irish political prisoners.
They can not be blamed for atrocities on local Aboriginal people because they were forcefully transported to the prison called Australia and then forced by British elite to be involved, together with British soldiers, in carefully planed genocide on local Aboriginal population with promised freedom or to return home.


What about the other colonists who came to Australia after the last of the convicts were transported? The majority of colonists in Australia weren't from the convicts; they were free settlers who came later.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #134 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm
 
Quote:
Fact: Australia's Constitution is an Act of the Imperial Parliament. The Commonwealth of Australia was given legal existence by the Queen.

Fact: Queen Elizabeth II is the Head of State of Australia. She is also the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.

Fact: Britain legally does not consider us 'foreigners'.

Fact: Each State of Australia derives direct sovereignty from the Crown.

Fact: All MPs, and military personnel must swear an oath of allegiance to the Sovereign.
--------
Show me evidence that Australia is an 'independent' nation?


Your facts are generally correct.  There is one technical dispute not worth having.  Anachronistic, all of them.

As for evidence....we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government, we have our own military, we have our own currency, we make treaties like other sovereign nations, we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose...we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #135 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:03pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:29pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


Australia was then a sovereign nation and the UK was a foreign power. 

In 1948, the Australian Citizenship Act sorted the matter of citizenship out.


Incorrect, Aussie. This is just factually not accurate. The Queen issude a proclamation establishing the Commonwealth of Australia. The Imperial Parliament passed the Constitution Act, which is still in force today. All our laws we have today are given legal force by the Constitution, which itself is an Act of the Imperial Parliament; therefore all our laws derive legal force from the Imperial Parliament.

If the Imperial Parliament repealed the Constitution Act tomorrow, all of our laws would be invalid technically.


Technically....it can't.  No Jurisdiction, as the horse bolted in 1901 when Australia became a sovereign state.


Sovereign state with the foreign monarch as a head of state???

1. United Kingdom still retained the power to make laws for Australia and to overturn laws made by the Australian Parliament.
2. The Queen of Britain has constitutional right to remove democratically elected Australian prime minister without approval of the parliament (Gough Whitlam in 1974).

https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/australias-last-bri
ck-of-nationhood,3127
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #136 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:45pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:31pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:22pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


Wrong about what exactly?


That never had slavery in Australia. We had perfectly legal slavery up until the '70s There are people still alive who were slaves.

I would have thought you would have heard about it? It's not exactly esoteric.


I actually don't know what you're talking about. Can you be more specific please?  Are you talking about the Stolen Generations?



http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2016/12/01/10-things-you-should-know-about-sl...

That should get you started.

But just for the sake of argument, we still have slavery in Australia. It is estimated that at least 3,000 people are currently living as slaves in Australia.

However, that is illegal. The slavery i am referring to was perfectly legal.


No doubt, Indigenous People were treated horrendously under these Government schemes. The intention of the scheme was not to enslave them. The abuse they suffered was at the hands of individual householders. You'll notice that the article states that some Indigenous peoples were pay 'nothing' or 'paid very little.' This indicates that this was at the discretion of the person for whom the indentured servant worked. It was NOT government policy to institute legal slavery, or to made them work for 'nothing'.

Second, Indigenous peoples were not bought or sold like cattle as blacks were in the United States. This is a key distinction of slavery.

I totally agree that the treatment was abhorrent, reprehensible and unacceptable. It was exploitation of labour, not slavery.



As i keep saying, you've got some research to do. I've simply pointed you in the right direction.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #137 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government


Our seat at the UN and other International Forums is generally seen by the international community as being intertwined with Britain's. Our foreign policy goals have always been, and are aligned with Britain's. We do not have our own foreign policy.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own system of Government


Incorrect, we have the Westminster system of government, with slight variations. Having our own government would mean inventing a new type of government never practised before.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own currency


So does HK. Does that make them an independent nation?

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we make treaties like other sovereign nations


Treaties which have never been against Britain's interests.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose


That is what 'self-governing' means.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.


We are part of the Commonwealth Realm.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #138 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:10pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


He is obviously one of British nationalist apologetics.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #139 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:12pm
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


He is obviously one of British nationalist apologetics.


Fact: Australia has never had the legal institution of slavery.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #140 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:16pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government


Our seat at the UN and other International Forums is generally seen by the international community as being intertwined with Britain's. Our foreign policy goals have always been, and are aligned with Britain's. We do not have our own foreign policy.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own system of Government


Incorrect, we have the Westminster system of government, with slight variations. Having our own government would mean inventing a new type of government never practised before.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own currency


So does HK. Does that make them an independent nation?

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we make treaties like other sovereign nations


Treaties which have never been against Britain's interests.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose


That is what 'self-governing' means.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.


We are part of the Commonwealth Realm.


Sorry for disappointment but Australia is not 100% sovereign country.
This is official opinion, in that matter, from an Australian expert :

"We have gone a long way to creating our nation; we are almost there. But the task of creating a fully, undeniably and unambiguously independent Australia is not quite complete. Let’s take the last few steps and break the tape tying us to mother Britain. Let’s mortar in the last brick of our nationhood".

https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/australias-last-bri...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #141 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:17pm
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:16pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government


Our seat at the UN and other International Forums is generally seen by the international community as being intertwined with Britain's. Our foreign policy goals have always been, and are aligned with Britain's. We do not have our own foreign policy.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own system of Government


Incorrect, we have the Westminster system of government, with slight variations. Having our own government would mean inventing a new type of government never practised before.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own currency


So does HK. Does that make them an independent nation?

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we make treaties like other sovereign nations


Treaties which have never been against Britain's interests.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose


That is what 'self-governing' means.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.


We are part of the Commonwealth Realm.


Sorry for disappointment but Australia is not 100% sovereign country.
This is official opinion, in that matter, from an Australian expert :

"We have gone a long way to creating our nation; we are almost there. But the task of creating a fully, undeniably and unambiguously independent Australia is not quite complete. Let’s take the last few steps and break the tape tying us to mother Britain. Let’s mortar in the last brick of our nationhood".

https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/australias-last-bri...


I agree with Cap, we are not an independent nation.

We are a self-governing Dominion under the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. And I am proud of this fact.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #142 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:20pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government


Our seat at the UN and other International Forums is generally seen by the international community as being intertwined with Britain's. Our foreign policy goals have always been, and are aligned with Britain's. We do not have our own foreign policy.

Where is your evidence which supports that?  On every point, the evidence suggests the complete opposite.


Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own system of Government


Incorrect, we have the Westminster system of government, with slight variations. Having our own government would mean inventing a new type of government never practised before.

So is India's for example.  Is it a Sovereign Nation?


Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own currency


So does HK. Does that make them an independent nation?

It is not an independant nation.  It is part of China, having been handed back after a 100 year lease.


Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we make treaties like other sovereign nations


Treaties which have never been against Britain's interests.

Not even trade 'treaties?'


Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose


That is what 'self-governing' means.

Yes....we are a sovereign nation.


Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.


We are part of the Commonwealth Realm.

Which is a non-entity, a nothing.


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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #143 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:29pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Where is your evidence which supports that?  On every point, the evidence suggests the complete opposite.


On most minor issues we represent without British involvement, but major foreign policy decisions such as defense treaties, etc. are done in collaboration with Britain.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:20pm:
So is India's for example.  Is it a Sovereign Nation?


You were the one who made the claim in the beginning. I simply stated that we don't have our own system of government. India is a sovereign nation because they are a Republic.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:20pm:
It is not an independant nation.  It is part of China, having been handed back after a 100 year lease.


So, our having own currency doesn't necessarily make us independent either, right? The EU has its own currency, does that mean France is not a sovereign nation?

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Not even trade 'treaties?'



Not even trade treaties. Sure, there are minor differences, but no trade treaty we've made substantially affects Britain's interests. Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Yes....we are a sovereign nation.


Self governing and sovereignty are two separate things. For e.g. the State of Trentino/Alto Adige in Italy is self-governing, but it's not a sovereign nation.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Which is a non-entity, a nothing.


Incorrect, it means that the Head of State of those nations is the King/Queen of UKGBNI.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #144 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:53pm
 
Well, Caesar, if you reckon Australian is not a sovereign nation, then there is obviously nothing anyone, not even the High Court, can say which will get you off your fantasy island.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #145 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:09pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:53pm:
Well, Caesar, if you reckon Australian is not a sovereign nation, then there is obviously nothing anyone, not even the High Court, can say which will get you off your fantasy island.


No, there is one thing, Aussie:

A referendum to amend to Constitution.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #146 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:14pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:17pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:16pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government


Our seat at the UN and other International Forums is generally seen by the international community as being intertwined with Britain's. Our foreign policy goals have always been, and are aligned with Britain's. We do not have our own foreign policy.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own system of Government


Incorrect, we have the Westminster system of government, with slight variations. Having our own government would mean inventing a new type of government never practised before.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own currency


So does HK. Does that make them an independent nation?

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we make treaties like other sovereign nations


Treaties which have never been against Britain's interests.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose


That is what 'self-governing' means.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.


We are part of the Commonwealth Realm.


Sorry for disappointment but Australia is not 100% sovereign country.
This is official opinion, in that matter, from an Australian expert :

"We have gone a long way to creating our nation; we are almost there. But the task of creating a fully, undeniably and unambiguously independent Australia is not quite complete. Let’s take the last few steps and break the tape tying us to mother Britain. Let’s mortar in the last brick of our nationhood".

https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/australias-last-bri...


I agree with Cap, we are not an independent nation.

We are a self-governing Dominion under the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. And I am proud of this fact.


You are proud of that as a British nationalist (closet Pom) and the most probably British national like Tony Abbot.

It would be interesting to see what Aussie nationalists have to say.
For the start let see what former Aussie prime minister said:



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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:23pm by capitosinora »  

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #147 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:32pm
 
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:14pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:17pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:16pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government


Our seat at the UN and other International Forums is generally seen by the international community as being intertwined with Britain's. Our foreign policy goals have always been, and are aligned with Britain's. We do not have our own foreign policy.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own system of Government


Incorrect, we have the Westminster system of government, with slight variations. Having our own government would mean inventing a new type of government never practised before.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own currency


So does HK. Does that make them an independent nation?

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we make treaties like other sovereign nations


Treaties which have never been against Britain's interests.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose


That is what 'self-governing' means.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.


We are part of the Commonwealth Realm.


Sorry for disappointment but Australia is not 100% sovereign country.
This is official opinion, in that matter, from an Australian expert :

"We have gone a long way to creating our nation; we are almost there. But the task of creating a fully, undeniably and unambiguously independent Australia is not quite complete. Let’s take the last few steps and break the tape tying us to mother Britain. Let’s mortar in the last brick of our nationhood".

https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/australias-last-bri...


I agree with Cap, we are not an independent nation.

We are a self-governing Dominion under the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. And I am proud of this fact.


You are proud of that as a British nationalist (closet Pom) and the most probably British national like Tony Abbot.

It would be interesting to see what Aussie nationalists have to say.
For the start let see what former Aussie prime minister said:





Our culture is slowly decaying because we're ready to discard the civilization of Britain. Paul Keating is to blame for that.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #148 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:40pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:12pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


He is obviously one of British nationalist apologetics.


Fact: Australia has never had the legal institution of slavery.



Incorrect.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #149 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:01pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:40pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:12pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


He is obviously one of British nationalist apologetics.


Fact: Australia has never had the legal institution of slavery.



Incorrect.


Show me a law that instituted slavery in Australia.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #150 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:04pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:01pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:40pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:12pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


He is obviously one of British nationalist apologetics.


Fact: Australia has never had the legal institution of slavery.



Incorrect.


Show me a law that instituted slavery in Australia.



Which bit? Where it was okay to abduct people, give them or sell them to people, not pay them, over-work them, offer them no protection for abuse ... for 40 odd years or the bit where we declared them people?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #151 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:09pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:04pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:01pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:40pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:12pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:17pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:11pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Australian became a Sovereign State and Britain a 'foreign power' in 1901.


We were still British subjects at that time.


When did slavery end in Australia?


We never had slavery in Australia. Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s, which was before the establishment of our Colonies legally.


I think you need to look into that, Caesar. You're quite wrong.


He is obviously one of British nationalist apologetics.


Fact: Australia has never had the legal institution of slavery.



Incorrect.


Show me a law that instituted slavery in Australia.



Which bit? Where it was okay to abduct people, give them or sell them to people, not pay them, over-work them, offer them no protection for abuse ... for 40 odd years or the bit where we declared them people?


Cite me the Act of Parliament which permitted this behaviour.

And i seriously doubt they were being sold to other people. Are you making this crap up?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #152 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm
 
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #153 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm
 
Something about Flora and Fauna in Qld.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #154 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:14pm
 
Every white man should have a foursome of women to cater to his needs unpaid, and a coffle of Kaffirs to tend the fields....

We've had wage slavery, kitchen slavery, and a heap of other slaveries... depends on how you look at it... but I'd have to say the very once common practice of 'paying' people with rations and such in return for their work was akin to the Company Store, and was a form of slavery.  That form of slavery is not exclusive to Aboriginal stockmen etc... but was widespread across early Australia until the Union movement gained a hold, and universal suffrage became the norm over 100 years ago.

Now we are seeing the beginnings of a return to that with 'interneeships' at lower rates of pay, and the blatantly obvious attacks on wage rights in many areas.

Rather than being bogged down in history, we need to look at the modern trend and where it is headed.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #155 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:15pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


I Will do the research.

But bear in mind that it you cannot make the assertion that the government encouraged slavery unless there was legislation passed in the parliament.

The abuse might have gone unnoticed, or there might have been neglect but these are two very different things from saying that there was a legal institution of slavery.

All I'm asking is that you be specific in your terminology.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #156 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #157 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
Ask me if i'm being specific enough after you have done the research.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #158 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:17pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:14pm:
Every white man should have a foursome of women to cater to his needs unpaid, and a coffle of Kaffirs to tend the fields....

We've had wage slavery, kitchen slavery, and a heap of other slaveries... depends on how you look at it... but I'd have to say the very once common practice of 'paying' people with rations and such in return for their work was akin to the Company Store, and was a form of slavery.  That form of slavery is not exclusive to Aboriginal stockmen etc... but was widespread across early Australia until the Union movement gained a hold, and universal suffrage became the norm over 100 years ago.

Now we are seeing the beginnings of a return to that with 'interneeships' at lower rates of pay, and the blatantly obvious attacks on wage rights in many areas.

Rather than being bogged down in history, we need to look at the modern trend and where it is headed.


Grappler, enough of your class warfare.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #159 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Ask me if i'm being specific enough after you have done the research.


I will. The only claim I ever made was that there was no legally instituted slavery in Australia. And you replied 'incorrect'.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #160 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 



I have. And i've already posted 3 articles.

Slavery was perfectly legal in Australia up until the '70s.

What's more there are thousands of slqaves currently living in Australia ... also many of the products we consume are produced with slave labour.

These are simple facts everyone should seriously know by now.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #161 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:19pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
Ask me if i'm being specific enough after you have done the research.


I will. The only claim I ever made was that there was no legally instituted slavery in Australia. And you replied 'incorrect'.




Indeed.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #162 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:22pm
 
Back to basics then. 

When Mothra says slavery to what is Mothra referring.

Your definition please Mothra, with regard to what you have been claiming.

This is sounding a lot like Greggs queue. Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #163 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:23pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Back to basics then. 

When Mothra says slavery to what is Mothra referring.

Your definition please Mothra, with regard to what you have been claiming.

This is sounding a lot like Greggs queue. Roll Eyes



You don't know what slavery is? For real?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #164 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:32pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:23pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Back to basics then. 

When Mothra says slavery to what is Mothra referring.

Your definition please Mothra, with regard to what you have been claiming.

This is sounding a lot like Greggs queue. Roll Eyes



You don't know what slavery is? For real?


See this is you hinting again.  It is boring, and far from making you look smart, which I think is your intention, it just makes you look, well clueless.

If in regard to your previous statements about slavery you suddenly find yourself in a bit of a pickle, then I understand completely.  Which is why I asked you the question.   Cool
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #165 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:33pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:32pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:23pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Back to basics then. 

When Mothra says slavery to what is Mothra referring.

Your definition please Mothra, with regard to what you have been claiming.

This is sounding a lot like Greggs queue. Roll Eyes



You don't know what slavery is? For real?


See this is you hinting again.  It is boring, and far from making you look smart, which I think is your intention, it just makes you look, well clueless.

If in regard to your previous statements about slavery you suddenly find yourself in a bit of a pickle, then I understand completely.  Which is why I asked you the question.   Cool


Well i mean Australia had slaves up until the '70s. Legally. There are still people alive who were slaves.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #166 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:37pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:33pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:32pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:23pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Back to basics then. 

When Mothra says slavery to what is Mothra referring.

Your definition please Mothra, with regard to what you have been claiming.

This is sounding a lot like Greggs queue. Roll Eyes



You don't know what slavery is? For real?


See this is you hinting again.  It is boring, and far from making you look smart, which I think is your intention, it just makes you look, well clueless.

If in regard to your previous statements about slavery you suddenly find yourself in a bit of a pickle, then I understand completely.  Which is why I asked you the question.   Cool


Well i mean Australia had slaves up until the '70s. Legally. There are still people alive who were slaves.


Roll Eyes  I get it. You got nuffin.  Bluster away dimwit.  I ain't buying it and I am sure others are awake to your antics. 
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #167 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:38pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:37pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:33pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:32pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:23pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Back to basics then. 

When Mothra says slavery to what is Mothra referring.

Your definition please Mothra, with regard to what you have been claiming.

This is sounding a lot like Greggs queue. Roll Eyes



You don't know what slavery is? For real?


See this is you hinting again.  It is boring, and far from making you look smart, which I think is your intention, it just makes you look, well clueless.

If in regard to your previous statements about slavery you suddenly find yourself in a bit of a pickle, then I understand completely.  Which is why I asked you the question.   Cool


Well i mean Australia had slaves up until the '70s. Legally. There are still people alive who were slaves.


Roll Eyes  I get it. You got nuffin.  Bluster away dimwit.  I ain't buying it and I am sure others are awake to your antics. 


Are you saying that we didn't have slaves up until the '70? Despite all of the evidence>? Some of which i have already provided in this thread?

Are you saying that Secret?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #168 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm
 
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #169 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:46pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm:
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes



How about ... working and not being paid for it? WIll that do?

Or do i need to pad my definition out further with bonus human rights violations?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #170 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:47pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm:
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes


What say ye, Mr Wars?

Link.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #171 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:51pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:46pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm:
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes



How about ... working and not being paid for it? WIll that do?

Or do i need to pad my definition out further with bonus human rights violations?


You need more. Internships are working without payment. 

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #172 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:51pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm:
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes


What say ye, Mr Wars?

Link.



Indeed Aussie .. yet as savagely treated and massively underpaid as they were, they got something.

Many, many people got nothing. Nada. Zip.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #173 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:52pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:51pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:46pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm:
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes



How about ... working and not being paid for it? WIll that do?

Or do i need to pad my definition out further with bonus human rights violations?


You need more. Internships are working without payment. 




Well how about stolen from their families and leased out to cattle stations, homesteads, whatever and forced to work 16 hour day with no protection from abuse for no money at all? For 40 years?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #174 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:57pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:51pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm:
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes


What say ye, Mr Wars?

Link.



Indeed Aussie .. yet as savagely treated and massively underpaid as they were, they got something.

Many, many people got nothing. Nada. Zip.


If they had not walked off, they would have continued in slavery to Vestey.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #175 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:59pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:57pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:51pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:43pm:
I am saying you should define slavery in regards to what you have been claiming.  It was a simple request that you have been avoiding.

I note your attempts at misdirection and bluster.  Roll Eyes


What say ye, Mr Wars?

Link.



Indeed Aussie .. yet as savagely treated and massively underpaid as they were, they got something.

Many, many people got nothing. Nada. Zip.


If they had not walked off, they would have continued in slavery to Vestey.


I absolutely agree. of course. I imagine Secret will have a problem with it though.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #176 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:02pm
 
Nah....he will revert to his usual form with snide remarks about the poster.  That's all he does.  Never offers substance, just peanut gallery sniping garbage.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #177 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:10pm
 
It's tough to debate the past don't you think?
The actions of the past were accepted in that particular era. It was the norm so to speak. Debating it with 2017 mind set is pretty hard. We have different standards today. Today we are more focused on human rights and applying that mindset to the past is not really going to work.
If you could teleport yourself back to those days and say what they're doing is wrong you'd probably end up in a shallow hole and if they came forward to today they would be locked up immediately.

As for black slaves, everyone should have one.  Cheesy
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #178 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:12pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Nah....he will revert to his usual form with snide remarks about the poster.  That's all he does.  Never offers substance, just peanut gallery sniping garbage.


Still waiting for the definition Aussie, then after that to see it knitted to legislation.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #179 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:14pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:12pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Nah....he will revert to his usual form with snide remarks about the poster.  That's all he does.  Never offers substance, just peanut gallery sniping garbage.


Still waiting for the definition Aussie, then after that to see it knitted to legislation.   

How about
your
definition? 
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #180 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:17pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:14pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:12pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Nah....he will revert to his usual form with snide remarks about the poster.  That's all he does.  Never offers substance, just peanut gallery sniping garbage.


Still waiting for the definition Aussie, then after that to see it knitted to legislation.   

How about
your
definition? 


Wasn't me claiming that slavery was legal.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #181 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:22pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:32pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 5:14pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:17pm:
capitosinora wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:16pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own seat at the UN and other International Forums, we have our own system of Government


Our seat at the UN and other International Forums is generally seen by the international community as being intertwined with Britain's. Our foreign policy goals have always been, and are aligned with Britain's. We do not have our own foreign policy.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own system of Government


Incorrect, we have the Westminster system of government, with slight variations. Having our own government would mean inventing a new type of government never practised before.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we have our own currency


So does HK. Does that make them an independent nation?

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we make treaties like other sovereign nations


Treaties which have never been against Britain's interests.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we do not need the permission of any other Nation to do what we choose


That is what 'self-governing' means.

Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 3:00pm:
we are no longer part of the British Empire...etc etc etc.


We are part of the Commonwealth Realm.


Sorry for disappointment but Australia is not 100% sovereign country.
This is official opinion, in that matter, from an Australian expert :

"We have gone a long way to creating our nation; we are almost there. But the task of creating a fully, undeniably and unambiguously independent Australia is not quite complete. Let’s take the last few steps and break the tape tying us to mother Britain. Let’s mortar in the last brick of our nationhood".

https://independentaustralia.net/australia/australia-display/australias-last-bri...


I agree with Cap, we are not an independent nation.

We are a self-governing Dominion under the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. And I am proud of this fact.


You are proud of that as a British nationalist (closet Pom) and the most probably British national like Tony Abbot.

It would be interesting to see what Aussie nationalists have to say.
For the start let see what former Aussie prime minister said:





Our culture is slowly decaying because we're ready to discard the civilization of Britain. Paul Keating is to blame for that.

"Civilization of Britain" What civilization we are talking about.
I guess massive genocides and enslaving people around the world by Reptilian aliens.

David Icke


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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017 at 10:21pm by capitosinora »  

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #182 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:22pm
 
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:17pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:14pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:12pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Nah....he will revert to his usual form with snide remarks about the poster.  That's all he does.  Never offers substance, just peanut gallery sniping garbage.


Still waiting for the definition Aussie, then after that to see it knitted to legislation.   

How about
your
definition? 


Wasn't me claiming that slavery was legal.


Does that stop you from providing a definition so we can debate that too?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #183 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:23pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:22pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:17pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:14pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:12pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:02pm:
Nah....he will revert to his usual form with snide remarks about the poster.  That's all he does.  Never offers substance, just peanut gallery sniping garbage.


Still waiting for the definition Aussie, then after that to see it knitted to legislation.   

How about
your
definition? 


Wasn't me claiming that slavery was legal.


Does that stop you from providing a definition so we can debate that too?


Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #184 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 7:32pm
 
I guess it does.  No surprise.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #185 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 10:58pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:14pm:
Every white man should have a foursome of women to cater to his needs unpaid, and a coffle of Kaffirs to tend the fields....

We've had wage slavery, kitchen slavery, and a heap of other slaveries... depends on how you look at it... but I'd have to say the very once common practice of 'paying' people with rations and such in return for their work was akin to the Company Store, and was a form of slavery.  That form of slavery is not exclusive to Aboriginal stockmen etc... but was widespread across early Australia until the Union movement gained a hold, and universal suffrage became the norm over 100 years ago.

Now we are seeing the beginnings of a return to that with 'interneeships' at lower rates of pay, and the blatantly obvious attacks on wage rights in many areas.

Rather than being bogged down in history, we need to look at the modern trend and where it is headed.


Grappler, enough of your class warfare.



Why?  Please explain?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #186 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:04pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 



I have. And i've already posted 3 articles.

Slavery was perfectly legal in Australia up until the '70s.

What's more there are thousands of slqaves currently living in Australia ... also many of the products we consume are produced with slave labour.

These are simple facts everyone should seriously know by now.
44

**citation required**

WHERE are these thousands of slaves working in Australia NOW????  We are not responsible for slave conditions in Ceylon - that is the province of the supplier, not the ordinary person...

You need to watch this 'internationalism' and the inference that somehow it makes of the ordinary person who has no power or control some kind of abuser... that is rhetoric and emotion pure and simple, and has no foundation in reality.  In taking on the mantle of 'internatillaism' you are as guilty of oppression as the globalists...... hello...

Please Explain??  Simple rhetoric is meaningless - I'm lambasted for discussing 'class warfare' in the context of slavery - surely it is incumbent upon you, as the poster of a view, to offer support for the view that there are thousands of slave in Oz right now.......

There is no question that past abuses via paying workers with rations etc were a reality, and equated to slavery.... along with a host of other social ills that prevail to this day, if in a somewhat muted form... such as entrenched injustice under Law... such as end runs around the rule of law so as to provide opportunity for the State to gain convictions and create of ordinary people 'criminals' for the purpose of social and economic control ... a serious issue when considering democracy....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #187 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:04pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 



I have. And i've already posted 3 articles.

Slavery was perfectly legal in Australia up until the '70s.

What's more there are thousands of slqaves currently living in Australia ... also many of the products we consume are produced with slave labour.

These are simple facts everyone should seriously know by now.
44

**citation required**

WHERE are these thousands of slaves working in Australia NOW????  We are not responsible for slave conditions in Ceylon - that is the province of the supplier, not the ordinary person...

You need to watch this 'internationalism' and the inference that somehow it makes of the ordinary person who has no power or control some kind of abuser... that is rhetoric and emotion pure and simple, and has no foundation in reality.  In taking on the mantle of 'internatillaism' you are as guilty of oppression as the globalists...... hello...

Please Explain??  Simple rhetoric is meaningless - I'm lambasted for discussing 'class warfare' in the context of slavery - surely it is incumbent upon you, as the poster of a view, to offer support for the view that there are thousands of slave in Oz right now.......

There is no question that past abuses via paying workers with rations etc were a reality, and equated to slavery.... along with a host of other social ills that prevail to this day, if in a somewhat muted form... such as entrenched injustice under Law... such as end runs around the rule of law so as to provide opportunity for the State to gain convictions and create of ordinary people 'criminals' for the purpose of social and economic control ... a serious issue when considering democracy....


It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia although it is thought the number is actually much higher.

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/media/modern-slavery-issue-australia/
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #188 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:28pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:04pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 



I have. And i've already posted 3 articles.

Slavery was perfectly legal in Australia up until the '70s.

What's more there are thousands of slqaves currently living in Australia ... also many of the products we consume are produced with slave labour.

These are simple facts everyone should seriously know by now.
44

**citation required**

WHERE are these thousands of slaves working in Australia NOW????  We are not responsible for slave conditions in Ceylon - that is the province of the supplier, not the ordinary person...

You need to watch this 'internationalism' and the inference that somehow it makes of the ordinary person who has no power or control some kind of abuser... that is rhetoric and emotion pure and simple, and has no foundation in reality.  In taking on the mantle of 'internatillaism' you are as guilty of oppression as the globalists...... hello...

Please Explain??  Simple rhetoric is meaningless - I'm lambasted for discussing 'class warfare' in the context of slavery - surely it is incumbent upon you, as the poster of a view, to offer support for the view that there are thousands of slave in Oz right now.......

There is no question that past abuses via paying workers with rations etc were a reality, and equated to slavery.... along with a host of other social ills that prevail to this day, if in a somewhat muted form... such as entrenched injustice under Law... such as end runs around the rule of law so as to provide opportunity for the State to gain convictions and create of ordinary people 'criminals' for the purpose of social and economic control ... a serious issue when considering democracy....


It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia although it is thought the number is actually much higher.

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/media/modern-slavery-issue-australia/


Ah - I see - what we are discussing here is:-

a)  Exploitation of the 'third world' by the global economy

b)  Furruners who bring people in here on false contracts and exploit them to 'pay back costs' etc.

What we are NOT discussing here is AUSTRALIAN slavery per se.....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #189 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:29pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:28pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:04pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 



I have. And i've already posted 3 articles.

Slavery was perfectly legal in Australia up until the '70s.

What's more there are thousands of slqaves currently living in Australia ... also many of the products we consume are produced with slave labour.

These are simple facts everyone should seriously know by now.
44

**citation required**

WHERE are these thousands of slaves working in Australia NOW????  We are not responsible for slave conditions in Ceylon - that is the province of the supplier, not the ordinary person...

You need to watch this 'internationalism' and the inference that somehow it makes of the ordinary person who has no power or control some kind of abuser... that is rhetoric and emotion pure and simple, and has no foundation in reality.  In taking on the mantle of 'internatillaism' you are as guilty of oppression as the globalists...... hello...

Please Explain??  Simple rhetoric is meaningless - I'm lambasted for discussing 'class warfare' in the context of slavery - surely it is incumbent upon you, as the poster of a view, to offer support for the view that there are thousands of slave in Oz right now.......

There is no question that past abuses via paying workers with rations etc were a reality, and equated to slavery.... along with a host of other social ills that prevail to this day, if in a somewhat muted form... such as entrenched injustice under Law... such as end runs around the rule of law so as to provide opportunity for the State to gain convictions and create of ordinary people 'criminals' for the purpose of social and economic control ... a serious issue when considering democracy....


It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia although it is thought the number is actually much higher.

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/media/modern-slavery-issue-australia/


Ah - I see - what we are discussing here is:-

a)  Exploitation of the 'third world' by the global economy

b)  Furruners who bring people in here on false contracts and exploit them to 'pay back costs' etc.

What we are NOT discussing here is AUSTRALIAN slavery per se.....



You can't be serious?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #190 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:47pm
 
Andrew Forrest?  Isn't he the Exploiter of the Black Cards Of Ceduna?  Why the hell would I listen to some Liberal twerp with an eye for any profit by any means, when he is quite obviously trying to do a 'royal family' and find some 'good works' to do to pump up his public image?

Australian of the Year?  So that's what he's after now.... Jesus Christ - aren't there fare better and more deserving people than just another exploiter?  That's like calling Nick Greiner an 'elder statesman'....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #191 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:49pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:29pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:28pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:04pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 



I have. And i've already posted 3 articles.

Slavery was perfectly legal in Australia up until the '70s.

What's more there are thousands of slqaves currently living in Australia ... also many of the products we consume are produced with slave labour.

These are simple facts everyone should seriously know by now.
44

**citation required**

WHERE are these thousands of slaves working in Australia NOW????  We are not responsible for slave conditions in Ceylon - that is the province of the supplier, not the ordinary person...

You need to watch this 'internationalism' and the inference that somehow it makes of the ordinary person who has no power or control some kind of abuser... that is rhetoric and emotion pure and simple, and has no foundation in reality.  In taking on the mantle of 'internatillaism' you are as guilty of oppression as the globalists...... hello...

Please Explain??  Simple rhetoric is meaningless - I'm lambasted for discussing 'class warfare' in the context of slavery - surely it is incumbent upon you, as the poster of a view, to offer support for the view that there are thousands of slave in Oz right now.......

There is no question that past abuses via paying workers with rations etc were a reality, and equated to slavery.... along with a host of other social ills that prevail to this day, if in a somewhat muted form... such as entrenched injustice under Law... such as end runs around the rule of law so as to provide opportunity for the State to gain convictions and create of ordinary people 'criminals' for the purpose of social and economic control ... a serious issue when considering democracy....


It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia although it is thought the number is actually much higher.

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/media/modern-slavery-issue-australia/


Ah - I see - what we are discussing here is:-

a)  Exploitation of the 'third world' by the global economy

b)  Furruners who bring people in here on false contracts and exploit them to 'pay back costs' etc.

What we are NOT discussing here is AUSTRALIAN slavery per se.....



You can't be serious?


Deadly serious - the categories I've laid out are exactly what this 'issue' is about.  There is NO legally established slavery in Australia.... what happens in Ceylon stays in Ceylon .... when some furruners** seek to get around the rules with unfair contracts, there is room under law for action.... if there is not strong enough action available, it soon will be.

We don't have slavery in Australia, and there have been clear campaigns against 'body hire' and so forth for many years now, and the ordinary person is in no way responsible for the exploitation of the global economists.... we may sympathise.. but that is the extent of our power here.

A sensible and detailed factual response other than 'you can't be serious' would perhaps help the discussion....


** I've told you all a thousand times we do not need or want their business 'ethics' and standards here..... been holding that line for a third of a century now... when are you all going to wake up and take up the fight against these abuses rather than attacking the messengers and the true freedom fighters?
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« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:55pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #192 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:00pm
 
Did someone mention legal slavery in Australia?  Qld led the field!

Link.

We even have statues commemorating our slave trading.

...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #193 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:00pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:49pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:29pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:28pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 11:04pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:18pm:
Secret Wars wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:16pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 6:10pm:
If you care, you have some research to do. I'm not spoon feeding you.

Should you choose not to educate yourself you will continue to be incorrect.

This is easily available information that you really should already know.


If it is easily available then argue your case.  Roll Eyes

Your usual predictable bullshit hinting that you know stuff without ever actually getting around to demonstrating it is boring. 



I have. And i've already posted 3 articles.

Slavery was perfectly legal in Australia up until the '70s.

What's more there are thousands of slqaves currently living in Australia ... also many of the products we consume are produced with slave labour.

These are simple facts everyone should seriously know by now.
44

**citation required**

WHERE are these thousands of slaves working in Australia NOW????  We are not responsible for slave conditions in Ceylon - that is the province of the supplier, not the ordinary person...

You need to watch this 'internationalism' and the inference that somehow it makes of the ordinary person who has no power or control some kind of abuser... that is rhetoric and emotion pure and simple, and has no foundation in reality.  In taking on the mantle of 'internatillaism' you are as guilty of oppression as the globalists...... hello...

Please Explain??  Simple rhetoric is meaningless - I'm lambasted for discussing 'class warfare' in the context of slavery - surely it is incumbent upon you, as the poster of a view, to offer support for the view that there are thousands of slave in Oz right now.......

There is no question that past abuses via paying workers with rations etc were a reality, and equated to slavery.... along with a host of other social ills that prevail to this day, if in a somewhat muted form... such as entrenched injustice under Law... such as end runs around the rule of law so as to provide opportunity for the State to gain convictions and create of ordinary people 'criminals' for the purpose of social and economic control ... a serious issue when considering democracy....


It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia although it is thought the number is actually much higher.

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/media/modern-slavery-issue-australia/


Ah - I see - what we are discussing here is:-

a)  Exploitation of the 'third world' by the global economy

b)  Furruners who bring people in here on false contracts and exploit them to 'pay back costs' etc.

What we are NOT discussing here is AUSTRALIAN slavery per se.....



You can't be serious?


Deadly serious - the categories I've laid out are exactly what this 'issue' is about.

We don't have slavery in Australia, and there have been clear campaigns against 'body hire' and so forth for many years now, and the ordinary person is in no way responsible for the exploitation of the global economists.... we may sympathise.. but that is the extent of our power here.

A sensible and detailed factual response other than 'you can't be serious' would perhaps help the discussion....



I'm just quite honestly gobsmacked that you consider anything that you've said to be true.

a) Not just "furruners" who utilise slave labour in this country. You'd know that if you knew anything at all on the subject. You don't. Again.

b) It is still happening. Through legal loopholes and lack of monitoring and scrutiny. Do you not think we have some sense of responsibility as a nation that vulnerable people are protected here and kept as slaves on our watch? You got a problem with that?

c) Of course we have some responsibility over developing world exploitation! We don't import stuff made by exploited people. We don't outsource our own businesses to exploited people.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #194 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:08pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:00pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 12:49pm:
Deadly serious - the categories I've laid out are exactly what this 'issue' is about.

We don't have slavery in Australia, and there have been clear campaigns against 'body hire' and so forth for many years now, and the ordinary person is in no way responsible for the exploitation of the global economists.... we may sympathise.. but that is the extent of our power here.

A sensible and detailed factual response other than 'you can't be serious' would perhaps help the discussion....



I'm just quite honestly gobsmacked that you consider anything that you've said to be true.

a) Not just "furruners" who utilise slave labour in this country. You'd know that if you knew anything at all on the subject. You don't. Again.

So list all these people exploited as slaves by Australians, and the abuse of visa holders by franchisees does not fit that bill


b) It is still happening. Through legal loopholes and lack of monitoring and scrutiny. Do you not think we have some sense of responsibility as a nation that vulnerable people are protected here and kept as slaves on our watch? You got a problem with that?

Precisely - so please point out where Australians are importing people and exploiting them under unfair contracts.  for those who are prepared to argue that Hoo
Flung Sam is an Australian citizen and thus we are all corporately 'guilty' - that is precisely the issue I raised about imported values and standards which are NOT Australian. Furruner is as furruner does....


c) Of course we have some responsibility over developing world exploitation! We don't import stuff made by exploited people. We don't outsource our own businesses to exploited people.

... and you would suggest that we do what, particularly in times when real wages HERE are declining while profits soar, and the ordinary person is left with no choice but to buy cheap imported goods.  Where are the competing local industries now which pay local wages?

Who exactly is this WE, white woman?



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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #195 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:13pm
 
This is where i ask you, once again, to define "Australian".

And simple answers could be given to your questions by simple googling. You won't do that though, will you. You'll just dig your heels and keep being right. Even when you're wrong. So much like Longy. Make an ill-informed blanket assessment then furiously back it up and refuse to consider any counter-argument.

We've done this dance before, Grappler. It's why i don't usually bother with you.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #196 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:14pm
 
[quote author=Aussie link=1503046179/192#192 date=1503457204]Did someone mention legal slavery in Australia?  Qld led the field!

[url=http://www.smh.com.au/national/blackbirding-shame-yet-to-be-acknowledged-in-australia-20150603-ghfn9c.html]Link.[/url]

We even have statues commemorating our slave trading.

[img]http://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/xRobert_Towns_Closeup-5538-92821.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Vpg17eh2Pg.jpg[/img][/quote]

Cite me the Act of Parliament that established slavery in Australia?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #197 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:14pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am:
It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia


Have you looked at the labels on your clothes mothball, maybe the makers of you electronics, TV, etc?........I suppose the "slaves" in China who made your clothes etc are a different matter eh?......

Rarely is anybody squeaky clean old girl.......

Roll Eyes
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #198 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:15pm
 
[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1503046179/196#196 date=1503458054][quote author=Aussie link=1503046179/192#192 date=1503457204]Did someone mention legal slavery in Australia?  Qld led the field!

[url=http://www.smh.com.au/national/blackbirding-shame-yet-to-be-acknowledged-in-australia-20150603-ghfn9c.html]Link.[/url]

We even have statues commemorating our slave trading.

[img]http://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/xRobert_Towns_Closeup-5538-92821.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Vpg17eh2Pg.jpg[/img][/quote]

Cite me the Act of Parliament that established slavery in Australia?[/quote]

The Protection Act.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #199 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm
 
Fuzzball wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:14pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am:
It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia


Have you looked at the labels on your clothes mothball, maybe the makers of you electronics, TV, etc?........I suppose the "slaves" in China who made your clothes etc are a different matter eh?......

Rarely is anybody squeaky clean old girl.......

Roll Eyes



Already mentioned them several times and our complicity in their fate Fireball.

When you just barge into a conversation with the intent of having the first available dig, you often end up making a tit of yourself. Never mind.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #200 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:22pm
 
[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1503046179/196#196 date=1503458054][quote author=Aussie link=1503046179/192#192 date=1503457204]Did someone mention legal slavery in Australia?  Qld led the field!

[url=http://www.smh.com.au/national/blackbirding-shame-yet-to-be-acknowledged-in-australia-20150603-ghfn9c.html]Link.[/url]

We even have statues commemorating our slave trading.

[img]http://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/xRobert_Towns_Closeup-5538-92821.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Vpg17eh2Pg.jpg[/img][/quote]

Cite me the Act of Parliament that established slavery in Australia?[/quote]

There is none that I know of.  There need not be one either.  Letting off fire-works was legal and there was no Act of Parliament legalising it.  A thing is legal unless made illegal.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #201 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:22pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm:
Fuzzball wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:14pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:32am:
It is estimated that there are 4,700 slaves currently living in Australia


Have you looked at the labels on your clothes mothball, maybe the makers of you electronics, TV, etc?........I suppose the "slaves" in China who made your clothes etc are a different matter eh?......

Rarely is anybody squeaky clean old girl.......

Roll Eyes



Already mentioned them several times and our complicity in their fate Fireball.

When you just barge into a conversation with the intent of having the first available dig, you often end up making a tit of yourself. Never mind.


You're the only tit here mothball........you fail to mention your own complicity in slavery........don't say "our".... speak for yourself instead of smugly using the royal "our" or "we"......
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #202 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:25pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:13pm:
This is where i ask you, once again, to define "Australian".

And simple answers could be given to your questions by simple googling. You won't do that though, will you. You'll just dig your heels and keep being right. Even when you're wrong. So much like Longy. Make an ill-informed blanket assessment then furiously back it up and refuse to consider any counter-argument.

We've done this dance before, Grappler. It's why i don't usually bother with you.



Totally incorrect - being an Australian citizen does not make one AUSTRALIAN in behaviour and attitudes... some need to be slowly but surely acclimatised to the way of things here, rather than seeing it as a exploitationist opportunity by any means, with wide open spaces for any abuser and exploiter, since the government has no balls any more to stand up for and do Right.

You haven't even approached the issues I raised of furruners and their imported ideas and their oft-times abuse of industrial law etc with 'contracts' - let alone the reality that such things are NOT Australian and are not lawful, and if they currently escape the net, they need to be brought under a tighter control of law...

Government, of course, will not do this..... might scare off the 'investors' who come here to rip out a chunk of the bleeding nation by exploiting their fellow countrymen and abusing our industrial laws and systems....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #203 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:29pm
 
Let's try again to get down to basics, shall we?

I'm just quite honestly gobsmacked that you consider anything that you've said to be true.

a) Not just "furruners" who utilise slave labour in this country. You'd know that if you knew anything at all on the subject. You don't. Again.

So list all these people exploited as slaves by Australians, and the abuse of visa holders by franchisees does not fit that bill



b) It is still happening. Through legal loopholes and lack of monitoring and scrutiny. Do you not think we have some sense of responsibility as a nation that vulnerable people are protected here and kept as slaves on our watch? You got a problem with that?

Precisely - so please point out where Australians are importing people and exploiting them under unfair contracts.  for those who are prepared to argue that Hoo
Flung Sam is an Australian citizen and thus we are all corporately 'guilty' - that is precisely the issue I raised about imported values and standards which are NOT Australian. Furruner is as furruner does....



c) Of course we have some responsibility over developing world exploitation! We don't import stuff made by exploited people. We don't outsource our own businesses to exploited people.

... and you would suggest that we do what, particularly in times when real wages HERE are declining while profits soar, and the ordinary person is left with no choice but to buy cheap imported goods.  Where are the competing local industries now which pay local wages?

Who exactly is this WE, white woman?


WHAT would you have us do over exploitation of Third World countries by some 'global economy' over which we, as individuals, have no power or control?  Beating the chest about it won't change a thing, and blaming us all for the exploitation of a few won't change a thing...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #204 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:31pm
 
Christ on a stick!
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #205 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:43pm
 
[quote author=mothra link=1503046179/198#198 date=1503458118][quote author=augcaesarustus link=1503046179/196#196 date=1503458054][quote author=Aussie link=1503046179/192#192 date=1503457204]Did someone mention legal slavery in Australia?  Qld led the field!

[url=http://www.smh.com.au/national/blackbirding-shame-yet-to-be-acknowledged-in-australia-20150603-ghfn9c.html]Link.[/url]

We even have statues commemorating our slave trading.

[img]http://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/xRobert_Towns_Closeup-5538-92821.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Vpg17eh2Pg.jpg[/img][/quote]

Cite me the Act of Parliament that established slavery in Australia?[/quote]

The Protection Act.
[/quote]

Ok, so I just read the said Protection Act 1869. There is nothing in that Act that institutes slavery for indigenous peoples. Read it.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #206 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:45pm
 
[quote author=Aussie link=1503046179/200#200 date=1503458535][quote author=augcaesarustus link=1503046179/196#196 date=1503458054][quote author=Aussie link=1503046179/192#192 date=1503457204]Did someone mention legal slavery in Australia?  Qld led the field!

[url=http://www.smh.com.au/national/blackbirding-shame-yet-to-be-acknowledged-in-australia-20150603-ghfn9c.html]Link.[/url]

We even have statues commemorating our slave trading.

[img]http://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/xRobert_Towns_Closeup-5538-92821.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Vpg17eh2Pg.jpg[/img][/quote]

Cite me the Act of Parliament that established slavery in Australia?[/quote]

There is none that I know of.  There need not be one either.  Letting off fire-works was legal and there was no Act of Parliament legalising it.  A thing is legal unless made illegal.
[/quote]

So, for argument's sake, if the Act of Parliament gave the Government broad powers to control and regulate the actions of the Indigenous Peoples, which regulation or control led to, in some cases, a way of life akin to coerced labour, does that mean that the Government has permitted slavery?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #207 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:51pm
 
[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1503046179/205#205 date=1503459809][quote author=mothra link=1503046179/198#198 date=1503458118][quote author=augcaesarustus link=1503046179/196#196 date=1503458054][quote author=Aussie link=1503046179/192#192 date=1503457204]Did someone mention legal slavery in Australia?  Qld led the field!

[url=http://www.smh.com.au/national/blackbirding-shame-yet-to-be-acknowledged-in-australia-20150603-ghfn9c.html]Link.[/url]

We even have statues commemorating our slave trading.

[img]http://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/xRobert_Towns_Closeup-5538-92821.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Vpg17eh2Pg.jpg[/img][/quote]

Cite me the Act of Parliament that established slavery in Australia?[/quote]

The Protection Act.
[/quote]

Ok, so I just read the said Protection Act 1869. There is nothing in that Act that institutes slavery for indigenous peoples. Read it. [/quote]

Yt it institutes the removal from their families and the placement of them in working environments in which they were exploited, abused and either dramatically underpaid, had their payments held in trust (that they still haven't seen, not noticed the class action? I told you to look into the Stolen Wages) or were simply not paid at all?

All quite legally done.

Look, you are resting your case on the purported lack of any specifically allowing slavery, all neatly defined, into Australian legislation. I am resting mine on the fact that there were slaves and it was legal.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #208 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:52pm
 
Quote:
So, for argument's sake, if the Act of Parliament gave the Government broad powers to control and regulate the actions of the Indigenous Peoples, which regulation or control led to, in some cases, a way of life akin to coerced labour, does that mean that the Government has permitted slavery?


Yes, but that is not what happened here.  Robert Towns, a slaver, a 'black birder,' was acting legally.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #209 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:52pm:
Quote:
So, for argument's sake, if the Act of Parliament gave the Government broad powers to control and regulate the actions of the Indigenous Peoples, which regulation or control led to, in some cases, a way of life akin to coerced labour, does that mean that the Government has permitted slavery?


Yes, but that is not what happened here.  Robert Towns, a slaver, a 'black birder,' was acting legally.


So, what was the Act of Parliament that legalised his actions?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #210 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:00pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:52pm:
Quote:
So, for argument's sake, if the Act of Parliament gave the Government broad powers to control and regulate the actions of the Indigenous Peoples, which regulation or control led to, in some cases, a way of life akin to coerced labour, does that mean that the Government has permitted slavery?


Yes, but that is not what happened here.  Robert Towns, a slaver, a 'black birder,' was acting legally.


So, what was the Act of Parliament that legalised his actions?


For the second time.....
NONE
......what he did was not illegal, so ipso facto, it was legal.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #211 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:06pm
 
[quote]Yt it institutes the removal from their families and the placement of them in working environments in which they were exploited, abused and either dramatically underpaid, had their payments held in trust (that they still haven't seen, not noticed the class action? I told you to look into the Stolen Wages) or were simply not paid at all?

All quite legally done.

Look, you are resting your case on the purported lack of any specifically allowing slavery, all neatly defined, into Australian legislation. I am resting mine on the fact that there were slaves and it was legal.
[/quote]

There was exploitation and mistreatment, but not slavery. Slavery means that indigenous peoples are considered property. The Act in question does not prescribe Indigenous peoples as chattel, or without rights.

There was exploitation of labour, but this is quite different from slavery. Slavery is a specific concept.

The 'slavery' that you describe in Australia was not the same as black slavery in America. In America, blacks were considered legally, three-fifths of a person; they could be bought and sold like cattle (hence the name chattel slavery); and they had no rights under the laws.

Surely, we can agree that the exploitation of the labour of Indigenous peoples was not akin to the same level of mistreatment (i.e. slavery) which the blacks in America experienced?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #212 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:09pm
 
[quote author=augcaesarustus link=1503046179/211#211 date=1503461165][quote]Yt it institutes the removal from their families and the placement of them in working environments in which they were exploited, abused and either dramatically underpaid, had their payments held in trust (that they still haven't seen, not noticed the class action? I told you to look into the Stolen Wages) or were simply not paid at all?

All quite legally done.

Look, you are resting your case on the purported lack of any specifically allowing slavery, all neatly defined, into Australian legislation. I am resting mine on the fact that there were slaves and it was legal.
[/quote]

There was exploitation and mistreatment, but not slavery. Slavery means that indigenous peoples are considered property. The Act in question does not prescribe Indigenous peoples as chattel, or without rights.

There was exploitation of labour, but this is quite different from slavery. Slavery is a specific concept.

The 'slavery' that you describe in Australia was not the same as black slavery in America. In America, blacks were considered legally, three-fifths of a person; they could be bought and sold like cattle (hence the name chattel slavery); and they had no rights under the laws.

Surely, we can agree that the exploitation of the labour of Indigenous peoples was not akin to the same level of mistreatment (i.e. slavery) which the blacks in America experienced? [/quote]


I thought you were going to do some reading about this? You should already know that everything you've argued is false.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #213 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:00pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:52pm:
Quote:
So, for argument's sake, if the Act of Parliament gave the Government broad powers to control and regulate the actions of the Indigenous Peoples, which regulation or control led to, in some cases, a way of life akin to coerced labour, does that mean that the Government has permitted slavery?


Yes, but that is not what happened here.  Robert Towns, a slaver, a 'black birder,' was acting legally.


So, what was the Act of Parliament that legalised his actions?


For the second time.....
NONE
......what he did was not illegal, so ipso facto, it was legal.


Ok, so this is a part of a biography by ANU http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/towns-robert-4741.

Towns failed in his bid to get the support of 'the Exeter Hall Mob', but continued to import Melanesians despite an outburst in the press; he printed his instructions to the master of the Don Juan and his letter to the missionaries in his South Sea Island Immigration for Cotton Culture (Sydney, 1863). He failed to form a colony of islanders on his plantations as he could never induce married men to bring their wives. The Queensland Polynesian Labourers Act, 1868, convinced Towns that bureaucratic control had made islanders more expensive to employ than Europeans, although he was not opposed to proper safeguards. In evidence to the royal commission into the alleged kidnapping of natives of the Loyalty Islands in 1869, he advised that recruiting ships should be licensed, with 'a proper official … duly accredited by the Government to prevent any abuses'; his suggestion was incorporated in regulations next year, and proved the most effective of the rules. Towns did not expect immediate gains from the cotton crop, but he hoped to do well by the bounty of £10 per bale payable in Queensland land orders. However, the cotton never made a profit and the bounty only saved the enterprise from ruin. In 1868 the Logan plantation showed a deficit of £5744.
---
It seems that claims of slavery are dubious at best, according to this passage.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #214 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm
 
I think Caesar means that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #215 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:13pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:09pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:06pm:
Quote:
Yt it institutes the removal from their families and the placement of them in working environments in which they were exploited, abused and either dramatically underpaid, had their payments held in trust (that they still haven't seen, not noticed the class action? I told you to look into the Stolen Wages) or were simply not paid at all?

All quite legally done.

Look, you are resting your case on the purported lack of any specifically allowing slavery, all neatly defined, into Australian legislation. I am resting mine on the fact that there were slaves and it was legal.


There was exploitation and mistreatment, but not slavery. Slavery means that indigenous peoples are considered property. The Act in question does not prescribe Indigenous peoples as chattel, or without rights.

There was exploitation of labour, but this is quite different from slavery. Slavery is a specific concept.

The 'slavery' that you describe in Australia was not the same as black slavery in America. In America, blacks were considered legally, three-fifths of a person; they could be bought and sold like cattle (hence the name chattel slavery); and they had no rights under the laws.

Surely, we can agree that the exploitation of the labour of Indigenous peoples was not akin to the same level of mistreatment (i.e. slavery) which the blacks in America experienced?



I thought you were going to do some reading about this? You should already know that everything you've argued is false.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples of Australia to the institution of chattel slavery as practised by the Americans?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #216 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #217 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:15pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar means that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


Also, there was a law against slavery in the British Empire. The British Parliament abolished slavery in the 1830s. So, it was illegal.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #218 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:18pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:00pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:52pm:
Quote:
So, for argument's sake, if the Act of Parliament gave the Government broad powers to control and regulate the actions of the Indigenous Peoples, which regulation or control led to, in some cases, a way of life akin to coerced labour, does that mean that the Government has permitted slavery?


Yes, but that is not what happened here.  Robert Towns, a slaver, a 'black birder,' was acting legally.


So, what was the Act of Parliament that legalised his actions?


For the second time.....
NONE
......what he did was not illegal, so ipso facto, it was legal.


Ok, so this is a part of a biography by ANU http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/towns-robert-4741.

Towns failed in his bid to get the support of 'the Exeter Hall Mob', but continued to import Melanesians despite an outburst in the press; he printed his instructions to the master of the Don Juan and his letter to the missionaries in his South Sea Island Immigration for Cotton Culture (Sydney, 1863). He failed to form a colony of islanders on his plantations as he could never induce married men to bring their wives. The Queensland Polynesian Labourers Act, 1868, convinced Towns that bureaucratic control had made islanders more expensive to employ than Europeans, although he was not opposed to proper safeguards. In evidence to the royal commission into the alleged kidnapping of natives of the Loyalty Islands in 1869, he advised that recruiting ships should be licensed, with 'a proper official … duly accredited by the Government to prevent any abuses'; his suggestion was incorporated in regulations next year, and proved the most effective of the rules. Towns did not expect immediate gains from the cotton crop, but he hoped to do well by the bounty of £10 per bale payable in Queensland land orders. However, the cotton never made a profit and the bounty only saved the enterprise from ruin. In 1868 the Logan plantation showed a deficit of £5744.
---
It seems that claims of slavery are dubious at best, according to this passage.


Bullshit.

Link.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #219 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:19pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:13pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:09pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:06pm:
Quote:
Yt it institutes the removal from their families and the placement of them in working environments in which they were exploited, abused and either dramatically underpaid, had their payments held in trust (that they still haven't seen, not noticed the class action? I told you to look into the Stolen Wages) or were simply not paid at all?

All quite legally done.

Look, you are resting your case on the purported lack of any specifically allowing slavery, all neatly defined, into Australian legislation. I am resting mine on the fact that there were slaves and it was legal.


There was exploitation and mistreatment, but not slavery. Slavery means that indigenous peoples are considered property. The Act in question does not prescribe Indigenous peoples as chattel, or without rights.

There was exploitation of labour, but this is quite different from slavery. Slavery is a specific concept.

The 'slavery' that you describe in Australia was not the same as black slavery in America. In America, blacks were considered legally, three-fifths of a person; they could be bought and sold like cattle (hence the name chattel slavery); and they had no rights under the laws.

Surely, we can agree that the exploitation of the labour of Indigenous peoples was not akin to the same level of mistreatment (i.e. slavery) which the blacks in America experienced?



I thought you were going to do some reading about this? You should already know that everything you've argued is false.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples of Australia to the institution of chattel slavery as practised by the Americans?



In what respect? They are both slavery, if that's what you mean.

Do i have to pick my favourite?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #220 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #221 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:22pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:13pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:09pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:06pm:
Quote:
Yt it institutes the removal from their families and the placement of them in working environments in which they were exploited, abused and either dramatically underpaid, had their payments held in trust (that they still haven't seen, not noticed the class action? I told you to look into the Stolen Wages) or were simply not paid at all?

All quite legally done.

Look, you are resting your case on the purported lack of any specifically allowing slavery, all neatly defined, into Australian legislation. I am resting mine on the fact that there were slaves and it was legal.


There was exploitation and mistreatment, but not slavery. Slavery means that indigenous peoples are considered property. The Act in question does not prescribe Indigenous peoples as chattel, or without rights.

There was exploitation of labour, but this is quite different from slavery. Slavery is a specific concept.

The 'slavery' that you describe in Australia was not the same as black slavery in America. In America, blacks were considered legally, three-fifths of a person; they could be bought and sold like cattle (hence the name chattel slavery); and they had no rights under the laws.

Surely, we can agree that the exploitation of the labour of Indigenous peoples was not akin to the same level of mistreatment (i.e. slavery) which the blacks in America experienced?



I thought you were going to do some reading about this? You should already know that everything you've argued is false.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples of Australia to the institution of chattel slavery as practised by the Americans?



In what respect? They are both slavery, if that's what you mean.

Do i have to pick my favourite?


Exploitation of labour is not the same as slavery.

The British Empire abolished slavery in 1833 via passage of the Slavery Abolition Act 1833.

Slavery was illegal.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #222 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:22pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Did the Government know about it?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #223 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:23pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:18pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:00pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:59pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 1:52pm:
Quote:
So, for argument's sake, if the Act of Parliament gave the Government broad powers to control and regulate the actions of the Indigenous Peoples, which regulation or control led to, in some cases, a way of life akin to coerced labour, does that mean that the Government has permitted slavery?


Yes, but that is not what happened here.  Robert Towns, a slaver, a 'black birder,' was acting legally.


So, what was the Act of Parliament that legalised his actions?


For the second time.....
NONE
......what he did was not illegal, so ipso facto, it was legal.


Ok, so this is a part of a biography by ANU http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/towns-robert-4741.

Towns failed in his bid to get the support of 'the Exeter Hall Mob', but continued to import Melanesians despite an outburst in the press; he printed his instructions to the master of the Don Juan and his letter to the missionaries in his South Sea Island Immigration for Cotton Culture (Sydney, 1863). He failed to form a colony of islanders on his plantations as he could never induce married men to bring their wives. The Queensland Polynesian Labourers Act, 1868, convinced Towns that bureaucratic control had made islanders more expensive to employ than Europeans, although he was not opposed to proper safeguards. In evidence to the royal commission into the alleged kidnapping of natives of the Loyalty Islands in 1869, he advised that recruiting ships should be licensed, with 'a proper official … duly accredited by the Government to prevent any abuses'; his suggestion was incorporated in regulations next year, and proved the most effective of the rules. Towns did not expect immediate gains from the cotton crop, but he hoped to do well by the bounty of £10 per bale payable in Queensland land orders. However, the cotton never made a profit and the bounty only saved the enterprise from ruin. In 1868 the Logan plantation showed a deficit of £5744.
---
It seems that claims of slavery are dubious at best, according to this passage.


Bullshit.

Link.


I can't read the article; it's a premium article.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #224 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:22pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:19pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:13pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:09pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:06pm:
Quote:
Yt it institutes the removal from their families and the placement of them in working environments in which they were exploited, abused and either dramatically underpaid, had their payments held in trust (that they still haven't seen, not noticed the class action? I told you to look into the Stolen Wages) or were simply not paid at all?

All quite legally done.

Look, you are resting your case on the purported lack of any specifically allowing slavery, all neatly defined, into Australian legislation. I am resting mine on the fact that there were slaves and it was legal.


There was exploitation and mistreatment, but not slavery. Slavery means that indigenous peoples are considered property. The Act in question does not prescribe Indigenous peoples as chattel, or without rights.

There was exploitation of labour, but this is quite different from slavery. Slavery is a specific concept.

The 'slavery' that you describe in Australia was not the same as black slavery in America. In America, blacks were considered legally, three-fifths of a person; they could be bought and sold like cattle (hence the name chattel slavery); and they had no rights under the laws.

Surely, we can agree that the exploitation of the labour of Indigenous peoples was not akin to the same level of mistreatment (i.e. slavery) which the blacks in America experienced?



I thought you were going to do some reading about this? You should already know that everything you've argued is false.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples of Australia to the institution of chattel slavery as practised by the Americans?



In what respect? They are both slavery, if that's what you mean.

Do i have to pick my favourite?


Exploitation of labour is not the same as slavery.

The British Empire abolished slavery in 1833 via passage of the Slavery Abolition Act 1833.

Slavery was illegal.


Think carefully now Caesar. Are you arguing that:

a) There was no slavery in Australia despite abundant evidence to the contrary. Despite us having active class actions and living survivors?

b) That the definition of slave is anything more than being kidnapped, leased out or sold off, forced to work without any rights or protections and not being being paid?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #225 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Also, according to other articles I've read, the persons who came to Queensland and worked on the sugar plantations were still paid, albeit peanuts - but that is exploitation, not slavery.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #226 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:28pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Also, according to other articles I've read, the persons who came to Queensland and worked on the sugar plantations were still paid, albeit peanuts - but that is exploitation, not slavery.


Research "Blackbirding".
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #227 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:30pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Also, according to other articles I've read, the persons who came to Queensland and worked on the sugar plantations were still paid, albeit peanuts - but that is exploitation, not slavery.


Cute.


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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #228 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:33pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:30pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Also, according to other articles I've read, the persons who came to Queensland and worked on the sugar plantations were still paid, albeit peanuts - but that is exploitation, not slavery.


Cute.




Come is a neutral word - it has no connotation of either voluntary coming or forced coming.

Were the workers paid?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #229 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:35pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:28pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Also, according to other articles I've read, the persons who came to Queensland and worked on the sugar plantations were still paid, albeit peanuts - but that is exploitation, not slavery.


Research "Blackbirding".


I did research it. Yes, Kanaks were taken (under false pretenses; in other cases, forceably removed) from their homes to work on sugar plantations in Queensland.

Here are several questions to this point:

1) Were they allowed to leave?

2) Were they paid?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #230 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:35pm
 
I believe they were.  They were even housed and fed......and forced to work.

'Allowed to leave??????'

How good a swimmer are you, Caesar?
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #231 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:40pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:35pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:28pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Also, according to other articles I've read, the persons who came to Queensland and worked on the sugar plantations were still paid, albeit peanuts - but that is exploitation, not slavery.


Research "Blackbirding".


I did research it. Yes, Kanaks were taken (under false pretenses; in other cases, forceably removed) from their homes to work on sugar plantations in Queensland.

Here are several questions to this point:

1) Were they allowed to leave?

2) Were they paid?


They were slaves in every sense.

Link.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #232 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:41pm
 
Past history - dwell on it if you wish..... let the dead bury the dead... our concern is with the living...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #233 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:53pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:27pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:21pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:14pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:12pm:
I think Caesar mean that the Brits were more benevolent in how they treated their slaves than were the Americans.  That makes it okay, it seems.

It was quite in order to black bird, ship the kidnapped buggers to Qld and set them to work for SFA in the cane fields, because it was the Brits doing the slavery.


So, you equate the mistreatment and exploitation of Indigenous peoples in Australia with chattel slavery in America?


Yes.  These were people of the South Seas kidnapped by Towns (UK born and bred) and forcefully shipped to Qld, legally.  He even has a statue commemorating his virtue.


Also, according to other articles I've read, the persons who came to Queensland and worked on the sugar plantations were still paid, albeit peanuts - but that is exploitation, not slavery.

It's semantics: the whole slavery subject always has been  Wink
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #234 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:57pm
 
Just read my link more closely.

I went to primary school with Tom Ambertel.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #235 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm
 
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #236 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:04pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm:
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.



...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #237 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:07pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm:
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.



How thoroughly refreshing to have a reasonable adult to debate with.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #238 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:10pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm:
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.




Very mature of you Caesar.
I would give you a few of my slaves as a reward if I could.

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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #239 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:15pm
 
mothra wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:07pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm:
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.



How thoroughly refreshing to have a reasonable adult to debate with.



We had slavery in Australia.

Ancient history - now what about today?  Nice to chat with adults for a change who do remain mired in the past over the purported wrongs of some but not all... if I want that kind of nonsense argument I could listen all day to some feminist ratbag carry on about how women were soooo oppressed...

There is no legal slavery in Australia - if Aussie wishes to argue that it is NOT ILLEGAL, and thus is somehow legal - that is a separate issue... Australia outlawed slavery in 1824......

http://honisoit.com/2017/06/the-case-for-australian-modern-slavery-legislation/

Now discuss like adults.....  Blackbirding finished in 1906.. over a hundred years ago... I don't recall having any Blackbirds on staff.... although the idea may have some merit.....

"Division 270 of the Criminal Code criminalises “slavery,” defined as “the condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised,” and “slavery-like conditions,” such as servitude[2], forced labour and forced marriage.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #240 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:24pm
 
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm:
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.




Very mature of you Caesar.
I would give you a few of my slaves as a reward if I could.



I'll pass on the slaves, thanks.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #241 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:30pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:24pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm:
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.




Very mature of you Caesar.
I would give you a few of my slaves as a reward if I could.



I'll pass on the slaves, thanks.


How are their teeth?  Are they bucks or does?  Git me a good price for a buxom doe with good teeth.... maybe with sucker alongside... being as I have no wish to own slaves myself, I'd sell them on....
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #242 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm
 
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #243 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:43pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:24pm:
Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:10pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:01pm:
Ok, Mothra and Aussie, you both win.

I'm convinced. We had slavery in Australia. There's no point equivocating on it; it was slavery.




Very mature of you Caesar.
I would give you a few of my slaves as a reward if I could.



I'll pass on the slaves, thanks.



Oh well, it's enough that you know I care
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #244 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.


Perhaps not a federated Australia.... I think the term is used generically, since it was following in the footsteps of The Old Dart... but since Oz was a colony then, it follows that the law of the Mother Country applied.
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #245 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:23pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.


Perhaps not a federated Australia.... I think the term is used generically, since it was following in the footsteps of The Old Dart... but since Oz was a colony then, it follows that the law of the Mother Country applied.


It is patently obvious that 'Australia' did not outlaw 'slavery' in 1824. 
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #246 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:26pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:23pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.


Perhaps not a federated Australia.... I think the term is used generically, since it was following in the footsteps of The Old Dart... but since Oz was a colony then, it follows that the law of the Mother Country applied.


It is patently obvious that 'Australia' did not outlaw 'slavery' in 1824. 


Does that mean that Australia has not outlawed slavery?

Slavery in Queensland 1926?

...
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #247 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:27pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:26pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:23pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.


Perhaps not a federated Australia.... I think the term is used generically, since it was following in the footsteps of The Old Dart... but since Oz was a colony then, it follows that the law of the Mother Country applied.


It is patently obvious that 'Australia' did not outlaw 'slavery' in 1824. 


Does that mean that Australia has not outlawed slavery?


Welcome back.

No.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #248 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:42pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:26pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:23pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.


Perhaps not a federated Australia.... I think the term is used generically, since it was following in the footsteps of The Old Dart... but since Oz was a colony then, it follows that the law of the Mother Country applied.


It is patently obvious that 'Australia' did not outlaw 'slavery' in 1824. 


Does that mean that Australia has not outlawed slavery?

Slavery in Queensland 1926?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/26/dc/a2/26dca2eb1d7db7b85642855f3e6b918b.jpg



Dat slavery or da chain gang dere, Bro?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #249 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:27pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:26pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:23pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.


Perhaps not a federated Australia.... I think the term is used generically, since it was following in the footsteps of The Old Dart... but since Oz was a colony then, it follows that the law of the Mother Country applied.


It is patently obvious that 'Australia' did not outlaw 'slavery' in 1824. 


Does that mean that Australia has not outlawed slavery?


Welcome back.

No.



"Division 270 of the Criminal Code criminalises “slavery,” defined as “the condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised,” and “slavery-like conditions,” such as servitude[2], forced labour and forced marriage.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
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TheFunPolice
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Re: Black Slaves...
Reply #250 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:44pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:27pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:26pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:23pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 4:16pm:
Aussie wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm:
Quote:
Australia outlawed slavery in 1824


Interesting, given there was no Australia in 1824.  Then, all we had were several British Colonies.......only 36 years after the arrival of the First Fleet.


Perhaps not a federated Australia.... I think the term is used generically, since it was following in the footsteps of The Old Dart... but since Oz was a colony then, it follows that the law of the Mother Country applied.


It is patently obvious that 'Australia' did not outlaw 'slavery' in 1824. 


Does that mean that Australia has not outlawed slavery?


Welcome back.

No.

Yeh, welcome back to the-land-of-the-double-negative  Grin
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......Australia has an illegitimate Government!
 
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