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Question: Is saying "Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans" blatant racism?

yes    
  3 (23.1%)
no    
  1 (7.7%)
yes - but only against whites    
  1 (7.7%)
not racist - WAAAACIST!    
  1 (7.7%)
what an idiotic question    
  7 (53.8%)




Total votes: 13
« Last Modified by: polite_gandalf on: Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:07am »

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Islam-inspired racism (Read 40063 times)
freediver
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Islam-inspired racism
Aug 18th, 2017 at 12:49pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:18pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:10pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 4:52pm:
Why the extraordinary efforts to boil everything down to simplistic hysteria about racism?


Gosh FD, hysteria about racism? Some might think that screeching months and years on end about how "racist" it is to suggest that the mass execution of members of a 7th century tribe for breaking a treaty might be deemed justified by the standards and culture of the time - is a pretty good example of "simplistic hysteria about racism".

But what this is about is your stubborn refusal to acknowledge what is evident to blind Freddy: that mealy mouthed racists, who absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist,  have latched on to the anti-Islam bandwagon to feed their racism, with their favourite rejoinder "Islam is not a race"  merely being the latest incantation of the old "I'm not racist but..." excuse.

And the fact that you are the most hysterical whiner about racism - sorry wacism - here, when it concerns muslims and/or their apologists attacking jews, is just an interesting aside.


I asked you to point these people out Gandalf. So far they are a figment of your imagination.

And I called you out on your racism because you are a textbook case of mealy mouthed racism, and you are right here on this forum. You described them over a span of years variously as a mindless collective a treacherous warrior Jews, all in efforts to justify Muhammad's genocide. But when your own words are presented to you you reject them because (again, in your own words) it 'sounds' racist. You absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist, but when all else failed, you fell back on racism because your religion compels you to come up with any excuse you can find to justify mass murder.


polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:18pm:
I asked you to point these people out Gandalf. So far they are a figment of your imagination.


Sure, FD - one good example is constantly broad-stroking the entire muslim population as a monolithic hive mind of sinister conspirators out to deceive everyone


Islam is not a race Gandalf. And you are the only one here who invokes a hive mind of sinister conspirators to justify genocide.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:18pm:
You described them over a span of years variously as a mindless collective a treacherous warrior Jews,

 
Like a "typical muslim" I guess.


Not sure. Did you ever say where you got the racist theories from? I seem to recall being taken by surprise when you said that. I think that is what prompted Karnal to describe it as an 'Abu moment'.

Quote:
And as usual this is rubbish. 1. I described the arab tribes of the 7th century - of which the banu qurayza were but one as a "mindless collective" - in the sense that there was no real concept of the individual in society - everyone was subordinated to the tribe.


So you did in fact describe them as a mindless collective, and use that to justify Muhammad's genocide?

Were the early Muslims also a mindless collective?

Quote:
This point I made abundantly clear in the original quote that you will always conveniently edit out when you requote it.


What exactly is this point you think I am editing out? That your racist propaganda about mindless collectives is not in fact racist because it is true? That it is in fact correct to call them a mindless collective and justify their genocide because they had no individual personality? That it's not racist if you also ascribe collective traits to other groups? What makes you think that repeating it and insisting it is true makes your racism any less abhorrent?

Quote:
as I have told you a hundred times at least - "treacherous jew" was your term, not mine


Are you denying referring to them as treacherous?

Quote:
And I even made the point that the term would be racist and I would never say it.


So racism is not about what you say, but how you say it? That is, you can argue they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews, but so long as you don't use the words together in a way that sounds familiarly racist, you are not actually being racist?

Are you saying that mealy mouthed racists, who absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist, who have latched on to the anti-Jew bandwagon to feed their religion, with their favourite rejoinder "they had no individuality or personality because they literally were a mindless collective of traitors, tough titties, off with their heads" are somehow not merely the latest incantation of the old "I'm not racist but..." excuse, so long as they really, truly believe their own absurd racist propaganda?
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« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2017 at 1:03pm by freediver »  

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #1 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 3:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
That it's not racist if you also ascribe collective traits to other groups?


Bingo.

If I had suggested that jews in particular are innately prone - because of their 'race' - to being a "mindless collective" that makes them inherently "treacherous" or whatever , then yeah that would be racist. Instead of what I actually said - which was to merely make an observation about Arab tribal society of the time, and the prevailing culture vis-a-vis the individual's subordination to the tribe.

Thus the entire quote of mine that kicked this whole 'mindless collective' nonsense off in the first place:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Thats exactly what they were. Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #2 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 3:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
So racism is not about what you say, but how you say it? That is, you can argue they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews, but so long as you don't use the words together in a way that sounds familiarly racist, you are not actually being racist?


Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

I wonder if FD can detect the irony in this statement - after his heroic defence of racists who attack muslims who are careful enough to steer clear of "racist" sounding slurs.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #3 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:23pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 3:23pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
That it's not racist if you also ascribe collective traits to other groups?


Bingo.


So if a white supremacist ascribes collective traits to both white and black people, he is not racist?

What if one of those traits just happens to be 'treacherous'?

Quote:
If I had suggested that jews in particular are innately prone - because of their 'race' - to being a "mindless collective" that makes them inherently "treacherous" or whatever , then yeah that would be racist. Instead of what I actually said - which was to merely make an observation about Arab tribal society of the time, and the prevailing culture vis-a-vis the individual's subordination to the tribe.


You said they had no individual personality and that they were treacherous individuals by virtue of being part of a treacherous collective - racist. You said they were found guilty and sentenced to death based on this collective guilt - racist.

Quote:
I wonder if FD can detect the irony in this statement - after his heroic defence of racists who attack muslims who are careful enough to steer clear of "racist" sounding slurs.


Do you think it could be that they don;t say racist things because they are actually talking about Islam, which is not a race?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #4 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 1:50pm
 
Were the early Muslims also a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #5 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:06pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 3:23pm:
Thus the entire quote of mine that kicked this whole 'mindless collective' nonsense off in the first place:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Thats exactly what they were. Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was.




It doesn't sound ridiculous to our Western minds that it was like that over a millennium ago.

What IS ridiculous is that it is still like that for most Muslim Arabs, even after they left Lebanon and the Middle East a couple of generations ago. That's what is ridiculous.

They are still tribal, they are still clannish, they still treat women as chattel.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #6 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:55pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:23pm:
So if a white supremacist ascribes collective traits to both white and black people, he is not racist?

What if one of those traits just happens to be 'treacherous'?


If a white supremacist said that all black and white people from a certain time and place had some common behavioural trait because of the society and place and time they both found themselves in - does that sound racist to you?

See how ridiculous your attempt at moral (non)-equivalence sounds?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #7 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:25pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 3:23pm:
Thus the entire quote of mine that kicked this whole 'mindless collective' nonsense off in the first place:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Thats exactly what they were. Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was.




It doesn't sound ridiculous to our Western minds that it was like that over a millennium ago.

What IS ridiculous is that it is still like that for most Muslim Arabs, even after they left Lebanon and the Middle East a couple of generations ago. That's what is ridiculous.

They are still tribal, they are still clannish, they still treat women as chattel.



Well said. This is the biggest issue, in my view. They are still tribal. Many of the laws which Muhammad established were contextual to a society that was tribal. The idea of the nation-state hasn't taken root in the Middle-East just yet.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #8 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:14pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 4:55pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 6:23pm:
So if a white supremacist ascribes collective traits to both white and black people, he is not racist?

What if one of those traits just happens to be 'treacherous'?


If a white supremacist said that all black and white people from a certain time and place had some common behavioural trait because of the society and place and time they both found themselves in - does that sound racist to you?

See how ridiculous your attempt at moral (non)-equivalence sounds?


If he said the white people were white and the black people were black I don't think anyone would care. If he said one group was a mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews who deserved to die as collective punishment for the crimes of a few, that would be racist.

Were the early Muslims also a mindless collective Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #9 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:14pm:
If he said one group was a mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews who deserved to die as collective punishment for the crimes of a few, that would be racist.


Good point FD - singling out one racial group as having particular innate negative attributes - because of their race, would indeed be racist. 

Quote:
Were the early Muslims also a mindless collective Gandalf?


You've asked me that before FD, and my answer was yes. They all were - it was an arab thing
you see - not a jewish thing.

...
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #10 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:24pm
 
When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?

Quote:
Good point FD - singling out one racial group as having particular innate negative attributes - because of their race, would indeed be racist.
 

You don't think treacherous, guilty, and dead are negative attributes?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #11 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 4:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 8:24pm:
You don't think treacherous, guilty, and dead are negative attributes?


Again, and read carefully FD singling out one racial group as having particular innate negative attributes - because of their race, would indeed be racist.

As opposed to what I actually said, and attributed those "negative attributes" (which is the so called "mindless collective"- not the "treacherous jew", again which are words you keep shoving in my mouth) - to the entire tribal culture in that time and place - of which the jews were just one part of. As I have said before, if it had been a non-jewish tribe breaking a treaty in the same way against a jewish tribe, I would expect nothing different.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #12 - Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:28pm
 
Quote:
which is the so called "mindless collective"- not the "treacherous jew", again which are words you keep shoving in my mouth


Are you now denying that they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews? Or just reminding everyone that you absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist, so you prefer to use more politically correct terminology?

When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?

Quote:
it was an arab thing you see - not a jewish thing


Can you explain how insisting it is an Arab thing rather than a Jewish thing makes it not racist?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #13 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 9:02am
 
FD do you agree that to be racist against jews, one would need to single out jews for their inherent negative attributes/behaviour specifically because of their "jewishness"? As opposed to making a general observation about the culture of a particular society in a particular time and place - which has absolutely nothing to do with any real or perceived characteristics that are particular to the jewish "race"?

freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Are you now denying that they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews?


You can attempt to shove that term down my mouth as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fact that its your phrase FD, not mine.

freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Can you explain how insisting it is an Arab thing rather than a Jewish thing makes it not racist?


Its possibly racist against 7th century arabs. I'll accept that charge. Are you now saying I'm not an anti-semite?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #14 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:20am
 
Quote:
You can attempt to shove that term down my mouth as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fact that its your phrase FD, not mine.


Is it an accurate description of what you think and what you have argued? Is your only criticism that it makes you sound racist, despite being true?

Quote:
Its possibly racist against 7th century arabs. I'll accept that charge. Are you now saying I'm not an anti-semite?


Isn't Arab and Semite pretty much the same thing?

When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #15 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:40am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:20am:
Is it an accurate description of what you think and what you have argued?


Of course not. They broke a treaty, that is a fact. Mass execution was probably an appropriate punishment for it (even though it almost certainly didn't happen) - according to the customs and culture of the time. From this most uncontroversial comment you turn this into rabid racism - by shoving words down my mouth. Thus because I said they broke a treaty, and because they happened to be jews, they become "treacherous jews", which you know brings on a completely new spin on the whole thing. You attempt to be clever with attempted logic and argue: 'well they were treaty breakers, and they were jews, therefore 'treacherous jews' accurately describes them - right?'. Thats literally how you come up with the absurd claim that I call them "treacherous jews". And of course when I deny it, you have another brilliant rejoinder - 'oh, by denying it, you're just covering up your racism and being sneaky about it' - which according to you only muslim racists do.


freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:20am:
Isn't Arab and Semite pretty much the same thing?


Yes. But you know as well as I know that the term "anti-semite" has been adopted as a specific word to refer to anti-jewish racism.

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:20am:
When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?


Mostly they haven't - right?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #16 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:58am
 
Try again Gandalf.

When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?

Does denying the genocide make you less racist?

And who said it was specifically about Jews?

Let's break the rest down:

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Try to impress Karnal with your amazing abilities at giving straight answers.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #17 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:22am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:58am:
When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?


Mostly they haven't - right?

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:58am:
And who said it was specifically about Jews?


you did.

Here you go, this is just the latest instance:

freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Are you now denying that they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews



freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:58am:
Let's break the rest down:

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?



These are your words FD, not mine. Here's my actual words, again:

Me: they broke a treaty and mass execution was probably an appropriate punishment according to the customs and culture of 7th century Arab society.

Remembering, these are the actual words that causes you to shriek like a babbling imbecile "gah!! wacist!!"

Also, please ask me again "who said it was specifically about Jews" - while keeping a straight face.

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:58am:
Try to impress Karnal with your amazing abilities at giving straight answers.


Done.

Now here's one for you FD:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 9:02am:
FD do you agree that to be racist against jews, one would need to single out jews for their inherent negative attributes/behaviour specifically because of their "jewishness"? As opposed to making a general observation about the culture of a particular society in a particular time and place - which has absolutely nothing to do with any real or perceived characteristics that are particular to the jewish "race"?


Try to impress me with your amazing abilities at not being a hypocrite because you don't actually ignore a question completely - let alone give a straight answer to it.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #18 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:39am
 
Quote:
Mostly they haven't - right?


Are you asking me a question in response Gandalf? You know that I do not buy into your racist propaganda about mindless collectives. Do you think Muslims have largely brought this 7th century Arab trait of mindless collectiveness into the modern world?

Quote:
Done


You left out the bit where you actually answer the questions Gandalf. Is it racist to give straight answers to these questions?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Quote:
Remembering, these are the actual words that causes you to shriek like a babbling imbecile "gah!! wacist!!"


Are you saying that you absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist, but agree with the substance anyway, even if you would prefer to put a more PC spin on it?

Quote:
FD do you agree that to be racist against jews


Who said this was about being racist against Jews in general?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #19 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:29pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:39am:
Are you asking me a question in response Gandalf? You know that I do not buy into your racist propaganda about mindless collectives.


But... but.... Islam isn't a race FD - remember? I can call muslims a mindless collective and it can't be racist. I know because you taught me that. So whats this you're saying now about it being "racist propaganda"? I thought I can literally say anything about muslims and not be racist - like saying 100% of the male muslim population are intellectually disabled due to inbreeding. And if you accuse me of being racist, I'll just throw back the good ol' "Islam isn't a race".

Don't you agree that muslims today are largely a "mindless collective"? Frank does.

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:39am:
You left out the bit where you actually answer the questions Gandalf. Is it racist to give straight answers to these questions?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?


Sorry FD, perhaps I wasn't clear: these are all *YOUR* words, not mine. What you are doing here is feebly attempting to entrap me by getting me to admit to clearly racist terminology that are entirely your invention. Here's my words again: they broke a treaty and mass execution was probably an appropriate punishment according to the customs and culture of 7th century Arab society. Thats all FD. Continue twisting this into whatever rabidly racist nonsense you wish - it doesn't alter what I actually said. Nor would any reasonable person who read my actual words make the absurd leap in logic to say "oooh he really means a "'mindless collective of treacherous jews!'" How wacist!!

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:39am:
Who said this was about being racist against Jews in general?


Cute.

FD are you saying I'm not an anti-semite (as in anti-jew racist)? I've asked this before, you seem to want to avoid it.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #20 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:22pm
 
Quote:
But... but.... Islam isn't a race FD - remember? I can call muslims a mindless collective and it can't be racist.


Do you?

Quote:
Sorry FD, perhaps I wasn't clear: these are all *YOUR* words, not mine.


Yes Gandalf. They are my questions to you. Inspired by things you have said.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Quote:
What you are doing here is feebly attempting to entrap me by getting me to admit to clearly racist terminology that are entirely your invention.


Again, it's the substance that matters, not the spin. Right? Or can racists avoid the charge of racism merely by being cautious with their terminology? Are you going for mealy mouthed racism here?

Quote:
Here's my words again: they broke a treaty and mass execution was probably an appropriate punishment according to the customs and culture of 7th century Arab society. Thats all FD.


That is your current version. You have tried many excuses for Muhammad's genocide previously.

Quote:
Continue twisting this into whatever rabidly racist nonsense you wish - it doesn't alter what I actually said. Nor would any reasonable person who read my actual words make the absurd leap in logic to say "oooh he really means a "'mindless collective of treacherous jews!'" How wacist!!

So why not answer the questions then?

Quote:
FD are you saying I'm not an anti-semite (as in anti-jew racist)? I've asked this before, you seem to want to avoid it.


I have responded plenty of times by pointing out that you don't have to target Jews to be racist. Your propaganda in this case appears to be targetted at a particular trial grouping.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #21 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 9:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:18pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:10pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 4:52pm:
Why the extraordinary efforts to boil everything down to simplistic hysteria about racism?


Gosh FD, hysteria about racism? Some might think that screeching months and years on end about how "racist" it is to suggest that the mass execution of members of a 7th century tribe for breaking a treaty might be deemed justified by the standards and culture of the time - is a pretty good example of "simplistic hysteria about racism".

But what this is about is your stubborn refusal to acknowledge what is evident to blind Freddy: that mealy mouthed racists, who absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist,  have latched on to the anti-Islam bandwagon to feed their racism, with their favourite rejoinder "Islam is not a race"  merely being the latest incantation of the old "I'm not racist but..." excuse.

And the fact that you are the most hysterical whiner about racism - sorry wacism - here, when it concerns muslims and/or their apologists attacking jews, is just an interesting aside.


I asked you to point these people out Gandalf. So far they are a figment of your imagination.

And I called you out on your racism because you are a textbook case of mealy mouthed racism, and you are right here on this forum. You described them over a span of years variously as a mindless collective a treacherous warrior Jews, all in efforts to justify Muhammad's genocide. But when your own words are presented to you you reject them because (again, in your own words) it 'sounds' racist. You absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist, but when all else failed, you fell back on racism because your religion compels you to come up with any excuse you can find to justify mass murder.


polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:18pm:
I asked you to point these people out Gandalf. So far they are a figment of your imagination.


Sure, FD - one good example is constantly broad-stroking the entire muslim population as a monolithic hive mind of sinister conspirators out to deceive everyone


Islam is not a race Gandalf. And you are the only one here who invokes a hive mind of sinister conspirators to justify genocide.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:15am:
freediver wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 5:18pm:
You described them over a span of years variously as a mindless collective a treacherous warrior Jews,

 
Like a "typical muslim" I guess.


Not sure. Did you ever say where you got the racist theories from? I seem to recall being taken by surprise when you said that. I think that is what prompted Karnal to describe it as an 'Abu moment'.

Quote:
And as usual this is rubbish. 1. I described the arab tribes of the 7th century - of which the banu qurayza were but one as a "mindless collective" - in the sense that there was no real concept of the individual in society - everyone was subordinated to the tribe.


So you did in fact describe them as a mindless collective, and use that to justify Muhammad's genocide?

Were the early Muslims also a mindless collective?

Quote:
This point I made abundantly clear in the original quote that you will always conveniently edit out when you requote it.


What exactly is this point you think I am editing out? That your racist propaganda about mindless collectives is not in fact racist because it is true? That it is in fact correct to call them a mindless collective and justify their genocide because they had no individual personality? That it's not racist if you also ascribe collective traits to other groups? What makes you think that repeating it and insisting it is true makes your racism any less abhorrent?

Quote:
as I have told you a hundred times at least - "treacherous jew" was your term, not mine


Are you denying referring to them as treacherous?

Quote:
And I even made the point that the term would be racist and I would never say it.


So racism is not about what you say, but how you say it? That is, you can argue they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews, but so long as you don't use the words together in a way that sounds familiarly racist, you are not actually being racist?

Are you saying that mealy mouthed racists, who absolutely *ARE* terrified of being seen as racist, who have latched on to the anti-Jew bandwagon to feed their religion, with their favourite rejoinder "they had no individuality or personality because they literally were a mindless collective of traitors, tough titties, off with their heads" are somehow not merely the latest incantation of the old "I'm not racist but..." excuse, so long as they really, truly believe their own absurd racist propaganda?


Strange. Everybody knows you invented the term, mindless collective.

Do you deny this?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #22 - Aug 23rd, 2017 at 10:03pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 3:23pm:
Thus the entire quote of mine that kicked this whole 'mindless collective' nonsense off in the first place:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 10:27am:
Thats exactly what they were. Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was.




It doesn't sound ridiculous to our Western minds that it was like that over a millennium ago.

What IS ridiculous is that it is still like that for most Muslim Arabs, even after they left Lebanon and the Middle East a couple of generations ago. That's what is ridiculous.

They are still tribal, they are still clannish, they still treat women as chattel.



But you still like Danish, no?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #23 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 6:54am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:22pm:
Do you?


I asked first FD. Can you explain this seeming backpeddling of your usual "Islam isn't a race" droning when you described calling muslims a mindless collective "racist propaganda"? I'm genuinely interested in this apparent about-face in your thinking FD.

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:22pm:
Yes Gandalf. They are my questions to you. Inspired by things you have said.


Ah inspired by things you have said. Translation: putting words into my mouth. You know what? Rather than wasting your time attempting to entrap me into saying wacist things, how about we stick to what I actually say? Here it is again:

they broke a treaty and mass execution was probably an appropriate punishment according to the customs and culture of 7th century Arab society.

oh and you can also throw in...

Thats exactly what they were [a mindless collective]. Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was.

As I said, there was no real concept of individuality - your personality was literally defined by which tribe you belonged to. And the decisions that govern the tribe are very much decisions that are represented by all the individuals who make up the tribe. Thus there really is no question of collective guilt - no matter how abhorrent we find the term today.

Tell me FD, do you reckon taking those actual words of mine and asserting that I'm really demonstrating my hideous racism towards jews and I really mean "mindless collective of treacherous jews" - would pass the pub test?

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:22pm:
I have responded plenty of times by pointing out that you don't have to target Jews to be racist.  Your propaganda in this case appears to be targetted at a particular trial grouping.


"Particular" - as in 7th century arab tribes? I'll happily accept that charge FD, but isn't it funny you are now claiming it doesn't require targeting jews - when its you who continually keeps bringing jews up. "Treacherous jews" no less. If this is now your position FD, why don't you put the words "mindless collective of treacherous arabs into my mouth? It would at least be far closer to what I actually said.

FD ever noticed that you only ever pull out the 'wacist' card when you perceive muslims or their apologists attacking jews? Now you pull out the "oh it doesn't have to be targeting jews to be wacist" card - all the while shoving the words "treacherous *JEWS*" down my mouth. Which is it FD? This campaign against me is a massive incoherent mess.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #24 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:38am
 
Quote:
Translation: putting words into my mouth.


They are questions Gandalf, that just happen to demonstrate that you are more concerned with the appearance of racism rather than the substance.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #25 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 2:26pm
 
Ah. Questions.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #26 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 2:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:38am:
Quote:
Translation: putting words into my mouth.


They are questions Gandalf, that just happen to demonstrate that you are more concerned with the appearance of racism rather than the substance.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?


FD, can you at least concede that the purpose of this exercise is to turn these most uncontroversial and un-racist words:

Quote:
they broke a treaty and mass execution was probably an appropriate punishment according to the customs and culture of 7th century Arab society.

...

Thats exactly what they were [a mindless collective]. Thats exactly how 7th arab society worked - your loyalty was with the tribe, far above anything else. They were of one mind - what the tribal leaders decided, every single member decided. No individual member of the tribe would even dream of taking a position that was at odds with the tribe. It sounds ridiculous to our western individualistic minds, but thats exactly how it was.

...

As I said, there was no real concept of individuality - your personality was literally defined by which tribe you belonged to. And the decisions that govern the tribe are very much decisions that are represented by all the individuals who make up the tribe. Thus there really is no question of collective guilt - no matter how abhorrent we find the term today.


into  - "MINDLESS COLLECTIVE OF TREACHEROUS JEWS!!" - GAH WAAACIST!!

?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #27 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 4:02pm
 
Quote:
FD, can you at least concede that the purpose of this exercise is to turn these most uncontroversial and un-racist words:


Uncontroversial eh? A literal mindless collective? People who literally have no individual personality of their own? Being punished collectively is not collective punishment?

Is it OK to be racist so long as you put a politically correct spin on it?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Why are you so concerned with the spin rather than the substance of your argument?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #28 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 7:49am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 4:02pm:
Were they Jewish?


FD, can you explain your latest line that "you don't have to target Jews to be racist" - while at every opportunity you are so determined to make this about jews?

Do you concede that I have never once made this about jews?

Is it in fact your only argument that I am racist against 7th century arabs?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #29 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 9:14am
 
You are the one getting hung up on the fact that they were Jewish Gandalf. I include that question because you have argued that omitting the fact that they were Jewish makes your propaganda not racist. You keep trying to blame everything on the Jews, as if the holocaust is some inconvenience that you must work around in developing your racist propaganda to justify Muhammad's genocide.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #30 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 9:57am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 9:14am:
You are the one getting hung up on the fact that they were Jewish Gandalf. I include that question because you have argued that omitting the fact that they were Jewish makes your propaganda not racist. You keep trying to blame everything on the Jews, as if the holocaust is some inconvenience that you must work around in developing your racist propaganda to justify Muhammad's genocide.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?


Who coined the term, mindless collective, FD?

That's a question.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #31 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 11:54am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 9:14am:
You are the one getting hung up on the fact that they were Jewish Gandalf.


LOL What? Explain yourself please - if you can.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #32 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 12:02pm
 
Hi FD, you seem to have forgotton about this one.

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:39am:
You know that I do not buy into your racist propaganda about mindless collectives.


polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:29pm:
But... but.... Islam isn't a race FD - remember? I can call muslims a mindless collective and it can't be racist. I know because you taught me that. So whats this you're saying now about it being "racist propaganda"? I thought I can literally say anything about muslims and not be racist - like saying 100% of the male muslim population are intellectually disabled due to inbreeding. And if you accuse me of being racist, I'll just throw back the good ol' "Islam isn't a race".

Don't you agree that muslims today are largely a "mindless collective"? Frank does.



polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 6:54am:
freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:22pm:
Do you?


I asked first FD. Can you explain this seeming backpeddling of your usual "Islam isn't a race" droning when you described calling muslims a mindless collective "racist propaganda"? I'm genuinely interested in this apparent about-face in your thinking FD.



Once again - is calling muslims a "mindless collective" racist now? Even though Islam isn't a race?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #33 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 2:00pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 12:02pm:
Hi FD, you seem to have forgotton about this one.

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 11:39am:
You know that I do not buy into your racist propaganda about mindless collectives.


polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 2:29pm:
But... but.... Islam isn't a race FD - remember? I can call muslims a mindless collective and it can't be racist. I know because you taught me that. So whats this you're saying now about it being "racist propaganda"? I thought I can literally say anything about muslims and not be racist - like saying 100% of the male muslim population are intellectually disabled due to inbreeding. And if you accuse me of being racist, I'll just throw back the good ol' "Islam isn't a race".

Don't you agree that muslims today are largely a "mindless collective"? Frank does.



polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 6:54am:
freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2017 at 8:22pm:
Do you?


I asked first FD. Can you explain this seeming backpeddling of your usual "Islam isn't a race" droning when you described calling muslims a mindless collective "racist propaganda"? I'm genuinely interested in this apparent about-face in your thinking FD.



Once again - is calling muslims a "mindless collective" racist now? Even though Islam isn't a race?


That's a question too.

I imagine FD will be keen to answer, given his views on Muslim evasion.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #34 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 4:31pm
 
karnal you are the most racist person I've come across on this site...  no one talks colours quite like you.

As for you lot repeating the Muslim racist shite...  that's shite not shiite.... the answer is as it was before NO a religion is NOT a race.

Just how many times must you be told?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #35 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 6:30pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 11:54am:
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 9:14am:
You are the one getting hung up on the fact that they were Jewish Gandalf.


LOL What? Explain yourself please - if you can.


Sure. Is it OK if I just quote the rest of the paragraph you took that sentence from?

Those pesky Jews have made genocide unpopular, haven't they Gandalf?

Quote:
Once again - is calling muslims a "mindless collective" racist now? Even though Islam isn't a race?


No.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #36 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 6:38pm
 
Grendel wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 4:31pm:
karnal you are the most racist person I've come across on this site...  no one talks colours quite like you.


Oh, I know. Muslim inbreeding, Negroid interbreeding subspecies, retarded inbreds squatting down to pee, plausible theories - all of it. And Muslims are not a race, don't forget that.

Always absolutely never ever - since 2007, anyway.

That's when FD changed his mind.

How many times must I be told? You keep telling me, Grendel. Keep wasting your time.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #37 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 6:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 11:54am:
Once again - is calling muslims a "mindless collective" racist now? Even though Islam isn't a race?


No.



Now that's an answer.

Can I ask you one, FD?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #38 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 8:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
Sure. Is it OK if I just quote the rest of the paragraph you took that sentence from?


Allow me...

Quote:
You are the one getting hung up on the fact that they were Jewish Gandalf. I include that question because you have argued that omitting the fact that they were Jewish makes your propaganda not racist. You keep trying to blame everything on the Jews, as if the holocaust is some inconvenience that you must work around in developing your racist propaganda to justify Muhammad's genocide.


Oh deary me, its even worse when you include it all.

Where to begin?

" I include that question because you have argued that omitting the fact that they were Jewish makes your propaganda not racist.

Hillarious. So your solution to me not being racist against jews is to shove words down my mouth that make me sound racist against jews. You are literally conceding that nothing in what I say is actually racist - and that the only way to make what I say racist is to find something actually racist and insist that I say it. This would be unbelievable if it didn't come from you FD.

You keep trying to blame everything on the Jews, as if the holocaust is some inconvenience that you must work around in developing your racist propaganda to justify Muhammad's genocide

Could you explain this FD? Exactly how do I "keep trying to blame everything on the Jews?" Or is this just another case of you having an episode because I don't play your game of "say racist things for me"?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #39 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 8:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 6:30pm:
Quote:
Once again - is calling muslims a "mindless collective" racist now? Even though Islam isn't a race?


No.


Oh good, so that means you can answer my question and not have to worry about "racist propaganda" - as you seem to have mistakenly thought it was before.

So... do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #40 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:15pm
 
Quote:
Allow me...


Thanks Gandalf. In future, feel free to quote me yourself. Or, if you want to cut out a few more steps, respond directly to my explanation rather than asking me for it.

Quote:
So your solution to me not being racist against jews is to shove words down my mouth that make me sound racist against jews.


They are questions Gandalf. Remember, it's the substance that counts not the spin.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Why is it that you are so loathe to "appear" racist against Jews, but happily admit to being racist against Arabs?

Quote:
You are literally conceding that nothing in what I say is actually racist


Literally?

Quote:
Could you explain this FD? Exactly how do I "keep trying to blame everything on the Jews?"


You only seem to think it is racist if you mention the fact that they are Jews. Or are you referring to your complaints about wealthy Jews putting Toben in jail?

Quote:
Or is this just another case of you having an episode because I don't play your game of "say racist things for me"?


Back in my day we called the game "a straight answer to a simple question".

Quote:
So... do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?


No. I have told you this before Gandalf. You are the only one here going on about mindless collectives.

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #41 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:21pm
 
Will you answer a question, FD?

Why or why not?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #42 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 1:18pm
 
A mindless collective as in having practiced incest for about 50 generations they are now scientifically recognized as having severe mental etc problems?

Quote:
Implications for the Muslim Worlds:
The consequences for offspring of consanguineous marriages are unpleasantly clear: Death, low intelligence and mental retardation, handicaps, diseases leading to a slow and painful death. Other consequences are: Limited social skills and understanding, limited ability to manage education and work procedures. The negative cognitive consequences also influence the executive functions. The impairment of concentration and emotional control leads to anti-social behaviour.

Islamic inbreeding has genetically limited the ability of muslims to understand, appreciate and produce knowledge due to their severely restricted IQ.

(Reproductive Health Journal, 2009)

(Jyllands-Posten, 27/2/2009 “More stillbirths among immigrants”)


I'd like to be as sure of winning the lotto as I am they've inbred themselves into a mentally challenged group.
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Reply #43 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:00pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 1:18pm:
A mindless collective as in having practiced incest for about 50 generations they are now scientifically recognized as having severe mental etc problems?

Quote:
Implications for the Muslim Worlds:
The consequences for offspring of consanguineous marriages are unpleasantly clear: Death, low intelligence and mental retardation, handicaps, diseases leading to a slow and painful death. Other consequences are: Limited social skills and understanding, limited ability to manage education and work procedures. The negative cognitive consequences also influence the executive functions. The impairment of concentration and emotional control leads to anti-social behaviour.

Islamic inbreeding has genetically limited the ability of muslims to understand, appreciate and produce knowledge due to their severely restricted IQ.

(Reproductive Health Journal, 2009)

(Jyllands-Posten, 27/2/2009 “More stillbirths among immigrants”)


I'd like to be as sure of winning the lotto as I am they've inbred themselves into a mentally challenged group.


What do you think, FD? Scientific.

Islam is not a race, you know.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #44 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:16pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 1:18pm:
A mindless collective as in having practiced incest for about 50 generations they are now scientifically recognized as having severe mental etc problems?

Quote:
Implications for the Muslim Worlds:
The consequences for offspring of consanguineous marriages are unpleasantly clear: Death, low intelligence and mental retardation, handicaps, diseases leading to a slow and painful death. Other consequences are: Limited social skills and understanding, limited ability to manage education and work procedures. The negative cognitive consequences also influence the executive functions. The impairment of concentration and emotional control leads to anti-social behaviour.

Islamic inbreeding has genetically limited the ability of muslims to understand, appreciate and produce knowledge due to their severely restricted IQ.

(Reproductive Health Journal, 2009)

(Jyllands-Posten, 27/2/2009 “More stillbirths among immigrants”)


I'd like to be as sure of winning the lotto as I am they've inbred themselves into a mentally challenged group.


Have you got a link to the article, Moses? I can't find it on Google Scholar.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #45 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm
 
karnal wrote Quote:
Have you got a link to the article, Moses? I can't find it on Google Scholar.


My pleasure;

Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs.

Jyllands-Posten, 27/2 2009 More stillbirths among immigrants

or there are several links in this document:
Muslim Inbreeding: Impacts on intelligence, sanity, health and society

or take your pick
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #46 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 3:22pm
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #47 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 5:29pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 3:09pm:
karnal wrote Quote:
Have you got a link to the article, Moses? I can't find it on Google Scholar.


My pleasure;

Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs.


Arabs, Moses. Arabs are a race.

Jyllands-Posten, 27/2 2009 More stillbirths among immigrants

This is in Danish. Even in Danish, I can read that it's a completely different article to what you quoted.

Muslim Inbreeding: Impacts on intelligence, sanity, health and society

Europe news - nothing to do with European news at all. It's an anti-Islam blog created by Nicholai Sennels, a contributor to Jihadwatch and other hate sites.

So where did you get your quoted reference from, Moses? If you could post a link, it would be great.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am
 
Quote:
Europe news - nothing to do with European news at all. It's an anti-Islam blog created by Nicholai Sennels, a contributor to Jihadwatch and other hate sites.
So where did you get your quoted reference from, Moses? If you could post a link, it would be great. 


I got my quoted references here

Nicolai Sennels is a psychologist and author who gave these and many other sources in his document on the effects of inbreeding in the muslim world.

Jyllands-Posten, 27/2 2009 More stillbirths among immigrants"

Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs

Indian National Science Academy, 1983 Consanguinity Effects on Intelligence Quotient and Neonatal Behaviours of nsari Muslim Children").

(Behaviour Genetics, 1984).

Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, 1978 Effect of inbreeding on IQ and mental retardation")

A study of possible deleterious effects of consanguinity

American Psychiatric Press, 1982 The role of genetic factors  in the ethiology of the schizophrenic disorders.

Kristeligt Dagblad, 26/6 2007] Ethnic minorities overrepresented among the criminal insane).

I certainly believe his works and references he provided over the pathetic excuses of muslims and their apologists.



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #49 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 2:14pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am:
Quote:
Europe news - nothing to do with European news at all. It's an anti-Islam blog created by Nicholai Sennels, a contributor to Jihadwatch and other hate sites.
So where did you get your quoted reference from, Moses? If you could post a link, it would be great. 


I got my quoted references here

Nicolai Sennels is a psychologist and author who gave these and many other sources in his document on the effects of inbreeding in the muslim world.

Jyllands-Posten, 27/2 2009 More stillbirths among immigrants"

Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs

Indian National Science Academy, 1983 Consanguinity Effects on Intelligence Quotient and Neonatal Behaviours of nsari Muslim Children").

(Behaviour Genetics, 1984).

Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, 1978 Effect of inbreeding on IQ and mental retardation")

A study of possible deleterious effects of consanguinity

American Psychiatric Press, 1982 The role of genetic factors  in the ethiology of the schizophrenic disorders.

Kristeligt Dagblad, 26/6 2007] Ethnic minorities overrepresented among the criminal insane).

I certainly believe his works and references he provided over the pathetic excuses of muslims and their apologists.





I still can't find the Reproductive Health Journal article (2009) you quoted describing the inbreeding of Muslims.

Quote:
Islamic inbreeding has genetically limited the ability of muslims to understand, appreciate and produce knowledge due to their severely restricted IQ.


Can you post a direct link to this? You cited Jylland Posten as its author and claimed this is now "scientifically recognised" based on a peer-reviewed journal article.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #50 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 2:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
Quote:
Could you explain this FD? Exactly how do I "keep trying to blame everything on the Jews?"


You only seem to think it is racist if you mention the fact that they are Jews.


ummm... sorry FD, do you actually think that is a logical answer to the question? Because its not.

So, are you now saying this is not about jews? Cool, does that mean you'll take out your "are they jewish" question from your question sheet the next time you post it?

FD do you agree that you are the only person who has ever made this discussion about jews?

Is it true that the only racist charge you can come up with is that I'm racist against 7th century arabs?

freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
Or are you referring to your complaints about wealthy Jews putting Toben in jail?


Why are you asking me? Its your story. And you are confused - I support the law that got Tobin in gaol remember?
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #51 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 3:29pm
 
Quote:
Cool, does that mean you'll take out your "are they jewish" question from your question sheet the next time you post it?


No Gandalf. It demonstrates that is all about spin rather than substance for you. You will happily admit to being racist against Arabs, but are afraid to even mention the fact that the victims of Muhammad's genocide were Jewish.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Quote:
Is it true that the only racist charge you can come up with is that I'm racist against 7th century arabs?


No. We have been over this before, remember Gandalf?

Quote:
Why are you asking me? Its your story. And you are confused - I support the law that got Tobin in gaol remember?


You keep changing your mind. It is hard to keep up. Or is it only the use of the law by wealthy Jews to put Toben in jail that you oppose?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #52 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:06pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 3:29pm:
It demonstrates that is all about spin rather than substance for you. You will happily admit to being racist against Arabs, but are afraid to even mention the fact that the victims of Muhammad's genocide were Jewish.


Hmm I can think of a few ways in which spin has been employed to justify racism - like claiming that slurring the entire muslim population by denigrating them as retarded inbreds who squat to pee isn't racist - because Islam isn't a race. It sure would be difficult to beat that for spin. But I must say I think this is the first time I've heard someone being accused of racist spin - apparently because they refused to attack, denigrate, stereotype - or even mention the group they are supposed to be racist against. It really is quite a sight to behold watching someone throw such a hissy fit because a person they insist is such a racist won't actually play ball and say racist things. And thats exactly what we are seeing here. When FD says I am "afraid to even mention the fact that the victims of Muhammad's genocide were Jewish" - that is just another way of saying 'gandalf isn't actually saying anything racist against jews'. Hence his pathetic begging me to call jews "mindless collective of treacherous jews" post after post after post.

FD's approach to make gandalf the muslim racist can be summed up thusly:

1. put racist words that I have never said, and specifically objected to, into my mouth
2. when I object, beg me to just say those racist things anyway
3. when I refuse, accuse me of spin

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #53 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:11pm
 
Quote:
I still can't find the Reproductive Health Journal article (2009) you quoted describing the inbreeding of Muslims.


Probably because I posted information gleaned from Muslim Inbreeding: Impacts on intelligence, sanity, health and society by Nicolai Sennels a psychologist, author and authority of renown in the field of muslim inbreeding.

Nicolai Sennels cited Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs as one of his many sources in his informative article on muslim inbreeding.

Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs is not the essential factor / element, it is one only source to the overall problem of islamic inbreeding, there are numerous other references, unitedly they all help to illustrate the problems of islamic incest.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #54 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:16pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:06pm:
Hmm I can think of a few ways in which spin has been employed to justify racism - like claiming that slurring the entire muslim population by denigrating them as retarded inbreds who squat to pee isn't racist - because Islam isn't a race.



It's stating facts when saying muslims are retarded inbreds who squat to pee.

Islam is an ideology a set of beliefs that guide life for muslims, muslims aren't a race of people.

Do you think it's possible to change your race by reciting the Shahada?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #55 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:35pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 1:18pm:
A mindless collective as in having practiced incest for about 50 generations they are now scientifically recognized as having severe mental etc problems?


What do you reckon FD - "racist propaganda" like how you just recently claimed that phrase "mindless collective" is?

Or do you only get your knickers in a knot when its muslims saying it?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #56 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:43pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:16pm:
Do you think it's possible to change your race by reciting the Shahada?


no, but according to moses, by doing so I magically become an intellectually disabled inbred.

moses wrote on Oct 23rd, 2015 at 4:39pm:
if there's 1.5 billion muslims, half are men 750 million inbred low intellect muslim men all squatting down to urinate


What do you reckon baron - just "stating facts"?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #57 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 6:01pm
 
Quote:
Hmm I can think of a few ways in which spin has been employed to justify racism - like claiming that slurring the entire muslim population by denigrating them as retarded inbreds who squat to pee isn't racist - because Islam isn't a race. It sure would be difficult to beat that for spin.


Difficult because it is true?

Quote:
But I must say I think this is the first time I've heard someone being accused of racist spin - apparently because they refused to attack, denigrate, stereotype - or even mention the group they are supposed to be racist against.


No-one is saying that Gandalf. All it proves is that you are more concerned with spin that substance. You still post racist propaganda to justify Muhammad's genocide.

Quote:
It really is quite a sight to behold watching someone throw such a hissy fit because a person they insist is such a racist won't actually play ball and say racist things.


Feel free to answer no, if that is what you really think Gandalf.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Quote:
When FD says I am "afraid to even mention the fact that the victims of Muhammad's genocide were Jewish" - that is just another way of saying 'gandalf isn't actually saying anything racist against jews'.


Have I accused you of being racist against Jews?

Quote:
1. put racist words that I have never said, and specifically objected to, into my mouth
2. when I object, beg me to just say those racist things anyway
3. when I refuse, accuse me of spin


Are you refering to these questions Gandalf?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #58 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 7:38pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 4:11pm:
Quote:
I still can't find the Reproductive Health Journal article (2009) you quoted describing the inbreeding of Muslims.


Probably because I posted information gleaned from Muslim Inbreeding: Impacts on intelligence, sanity, health and society by Nicolai Sennels a psychologist, author and authority of renown in the field of muslim inbreeding.

Nicolai Sennels cited Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs as one of his many sources in his informative article on muslim inbreeding.

Reproductive Health Journal, 2009 Consanguinity and reproductive health among Arabs is not the essential factor / element, it is one only source to the overall problem of islamic inbreeding, there are numerous other references, unitedly they all help to illustrate the problems of islamic incest.


Arabs? Your quote said Muslims. Here:

Quote:
Islamic inbreeding has genetically limited the ability of muslims to understand, appreciate and produce knowledge due to their severely restricted IQ.


But now I'm wondering - why did you reference the Reproductive Health Journal - with its author and publication date - when your quote came from an anti-Islam blog?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #59 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 1:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
Quote:
So... do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?


No. I have told you this before Gandalf. You are the only one here going on about mindless collectives.

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?


Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #60 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 2:34pm
 
Quote:
But now I'm wondering - why did you reference the Reproductive Health Journal - with its author and publication date - when your quote came from an anti-Islam blog?


Here we go again:

Reproductive Health Journal is one only source for celebrated  psychologist, author and authority on muslim inbreeding, Nicolai Sennels' work.

There are numerous other sources, all of his references conglomerated, constitute the body of his works on the dangers of muslim inbreeding.   

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #61 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 4:08pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 2:34pm:
Quote:
But now I'm wondering - why did you reference the Reproductive Health Journal - with its author and publication date - when your quote came from an anti-Islam blog?


Here we go again:

Reproductive Health Journal is one only source for celebrated  psychologist, author and authority on muslim inbreeding, Nicolai Sennels' work.



So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?

Did you make a mistake in your referencing, or was your false reference deliberate?

I'm curious. This is what we call scientific.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #62 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 6:01pm:
Have I accused you of being racist against Jews?


Yes FD - every time you shove the words "treacherous jews" in my mouth.

FD, do you agree that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews in this discussion?

freediver wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 6:01pm:
Were they Jewish?


Have you actually stopped to think why you are asking this  - now that your latest line is that your not accusing me of being racist against jews?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #63 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:27pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:20pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 6:01pm:
Have I accused you of being racist against Jews?


Yes FD - every time you shove the words "treacherous jews" in my mouth.

FD, do you agree that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews in this discussion?

freediver wrote on Aug 27th, 2017 at 6:01pm:
Were they Jewish?


Have you actually stopped to think why you are asking this  - now that your latest line is that your not accusing me of being racist against jews?


FD's not accusing you of anything, G, he just wants a confession. Oh - and a few names would be good too.

Hurry up, please. We can have all this over with by tonight.

Make it easy on yourself. Once you confess, we can go back to discussing carbon taxes and sustainable fishing again, yes?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #64 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:30pm
 
Quote:
Yes FD - every time you shove the words "treacherous jews" in my mouth.


But you actually think they were treacherous Jews. This is not the same as accusing you of being racist against all Jews. This is just an attempt to establish the facts.

Quote:
FD, do you agree that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews in this discussion?


Your unwillingness to answer a simple question like "Were they Jewish" is indeed part of the discussion, because we are discussing your mealy mouthed racism. It is only relevant because you think that not mentioning the fact that they were Jewish changes anything. You think that avoiding a direct comparison between Islam and Nazism will allow you to escape the charge of racism.

Quote:
Have you actually stopped to think why you are asking this  - now that your latest line is that your not accusing me of being racist against jews?


Are you trying to negotiate with me to get me to stop asking the question Gandalf? If it doesn't matter any more, why are you afraid to answer?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:15pm:
Quote:
So... do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?


No. I have told you this before Gandalf. You are the only one here going on about mindless collectives.

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?


Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #65 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:43pm
 
I don't think G wants to say, FD. What do we call someone who is too scared to answer questions again?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #66 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:52pm
 
Effendi, was Custer's 7th Cavalry a 'mindless collective of soldiers?'
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #67 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:56pm
 
I don't know much about them Aussie. Can you make your point all by yourself?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #68 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:56pm:
I don't know much about them Aussie. Can you make your point all by yourself?


Oh....I guess I know as much about them as you know of that bunch of Jews you claim Mo committed genocide upon.

They were a regiment of cavalry which were led by a bloke called Custer and they had, to adopt your term, genocide committed upon them by a much of savages led by some fellas called Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull.

Was that bunch of cavalry a 'mindless collective of soldiers' Effendi?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #69 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:13pm
 
Quote:
Oh....I guess I know as much about them as you know of that bunch of Jews you claim Mo committed genocide upon.


I don't know much about the victims of the Nazis either. Still waiting on that point Aussie. Have you forgotten it?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #70 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:15pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
Quote:
Oh....I guess I know as much about them as you know of that bunch of Jews you claim Mo committed genocide upon.


I don't know much about the victims of the Nazis either. Still waiting on that point Aussie. Have you forgotten it?


Yes, so ~ remind me.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #71 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:17pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:43pm:
I don't think G wants to say, FD. What do we call someone who is too scared to answer questions again?


FD?

You didn't answer this.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #72 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:56pm:
I don't know much about them Aussie. Can you make your point all by yourself?


And G, can you make FD's point all by yourself too, please?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #73 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:13pm:
Quote:
Oh....I guess I know as much about them as you know of that bunch of Jews you claim Mo committed genocide upon.


I don't know much about the victims of the Nazis either. Still waiting on that point Aussie. Have you forgotten it?


That's right. Your expertise is in 8th century genocides of treacherous Jews, no?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #74 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:03am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
But you actually think they were treacherous Jews. This is not the same as accusing you of being racist against all Jews.


all jews? Now your introducing strawmen FD.

Lets try a simple question - are you whinging about me being racist against jews or not? If not, why is it so important to you that I admit they were jews - treacherous jews no less?

freediver wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
Your unwillingness to answer a simple question like "Were they Jewish" is indeed part of the discussion, because we are discussing your mealy mouthed racism.


Perhaps if you actually explained this mealy mouthed racism of mine it might help. Is it racism against jews or not? If you insist that I call them "treacherous jews" (specifically), and if you think thats core to my racism, can you at least admit you are talking nonsense by claiming you are not accusing me of being an anti-jewish racist?

freediver wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
Are you trying to negotiate with me to get me to stop asking the question Gandalf?


I'm trying to understand why you are asking them. I don't think you even know yourself. Its apparent that its finally dawned on you that your years long campaign against "gandalf the anti-semite" is entirely down to you shoving words into my mouth. So we have this latest squirming that racism doesn't have to be about jews, and even more absurdly, now pretending that you have never accused me of being an anti-semite (as in anti-jew racist). Clearly you are attempting to change your position by accusing me of some abstract racism against no one in particular, rather than your previous position of being specifically racist against jews. And yet, you seem to have forgotton this about-face each time you post those stupid questions. Why would you still shove the racist words "treacherous jews" in my mouth, while at the same time whinging that you aren't accusing me of being anti-jewish? Obviously because you aren't thinking about it, you just have them on your 'reply to gandalf' template. So if nothing else FD, I ask that you just reflect on the incoherency of your line.
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« Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:11am by polite_gandalf »  

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #75 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:07am
 
According to FD, G, you're racist because you're a Muslim. Remember those 800 treacherous Jews Moh killed in a day 1200 years ago? Racism.

And you're complicit because you refuse to blame Moh.

Who's a naughty racist?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #76 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm
 
Quote:
Lets try a simple question - are you whinging about me being racist against jews or not? If not, why is it so important to you that I admit they were jews - treacherous jews no less?


The targets of your racism are Jewish.

Quote:
If not, why is it so important to you that I admit they were jews - treacherous jews no less?


It is your refusal to answer the question that is important. As far as I can tell it is something to do with the holocaust, and the appearance of racism. You will happily admit to being racist against Arabs, but cannot bring yourself to admit that they are Jewish. You will even negotiate to have the question removed from the table. But the question is no more significant than the others that you refuse to answer.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Perhaps if you actually explained this mealy mouthed racism of mine it might help.


You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. I acknowledge that you have since switched to denying the genocide and excusing it by insisting they were warriors.

For Aussie - apparently this is based on them failing Muhammad's genital inspection criteria. Those whose genitals displeased Muhammad were killed. Those with pleasing genitals suffered the same fate as the women and goats.

Quote:
I'm trying to understand why you are asking them.


Because you changed your excuse for the genocide to a more politically correct one, in the belief that this would allow you to escape the charge of racism. But you still think they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. You are just a bit mealy mouthed about it.

Quote:
I don't think you even know yourself. Its apparent that its finally dawned on you that your years long campaign against "gandalf the anti-semite" is entirely down to you shoving words into my mouth. So we have this latest squirming that racism doesn't have to be about jews, and even more absurdly, now pretending that you have never accused me of being an anti-semite (as in anti-jew racist).


Perhaps you should quote me.

Quote:
Clearly you are attempting to change your position by accusing me of some abstract racism against no one in particular


Are you saying that the victims of Muhammad's genocide don't count?

Quote:
Why would you still shove the racist words "treacherous jews" in my mouth


They are questions Gandalf. I am asking for your answer.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #77 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
It is your refusal to answer the question that is important.


Ah.

Is he mindless?

Is he a collective?

Is he treacherous?

Is he FD?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #78 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm
 
karnal wrote:Reply #61 - Yesterday at 4:08pm
Quote:
So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?


I thought I'd cleared that up in Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am

Where I posted:

I got my quoted references here

This is a direct link to  Nicolai Sennels' report on Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society.

I also gave several other links all of which are used in the studies of Nicolai Sennels.

Quote:
Did you make a mistake in your referencing


It appears for some people I probably did.

However several direct extracts from Reproductive Health journal such as: 

Quote:
Negative Effects of Consanguinity on Reproductive Health

Approximately 3-5% of all live newborns have a medically significant birth defect. The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia

&

puts the offspring of first cousin unions at a 1.7-2.8% increased risk for congenital defects above the population background risk

&

cousin progeny experience 4.4% more pre-reproductive deaths than the offspring of non-consanguineous unions

&

consanguineous marriage being an important factor contributing to the preponderance of autosomal recessive genetic disorders

&

higher rates of postnatal mortality and birth defects in offspring of consanguineous parents.


All support the claim that incest among  muslims is a pernicious practice.

In fact the very last paragraph of the Reproductive Health journal report states:

Quote:
Young Arabs contemplating marriage are nowadays seeking a scientifically sound answer to their questions: "Will our children be physically or mentally abnormal if I marry my cousin?" "How can we prevent having abnormal children?" Research on inbreeding is considered a priority in societies with high consanguinity rates to help understand and prevent the deleterious impact of consanguinity on health.


So it appears that muslims themselves are starting to realize that inbreeding is wrong and can / has caused very serious problems (mental and physical) for them.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #79 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:20pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
karnal wrote:Reply #61 - Yesterday at 4:08pm
Quote:
So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?


I thought I'd cleared that up in Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am

Where I posted:

I got my quoted references here

This is a direct link to  Nicolai Sennels' report on Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society.

I also gave several other links all of which are used in the studies of Nicolai Sennels.

Quote:
Did you make a mistake in your referencing


It appears for some people I probably did.

However several direct extracts from Reproductive Health journal such as: 

Quote:
Negative Effects of Consanguinity on Reproductive Health

Approximately 3-5% of all live newborns have a medically significant birth defect. The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia

&

puts the offspring of first cousin unions at a 1.7-2.8% increased risk for congenital defects above the population background risk

&

cousin progeny experience 4.4% more pre-reproductive deaths than the offspring of non-consanguineous unions

&

consanguineous marriage being an important factor contributing to the preponderance of autosomal recessive genetic disorders

&

higher rates of postnatal mortality and birth defects in offspring of consanguineous parents.


All support the claim that incest among  muslims is a pernicious practice.

In fact the very last paragraph of the Reproductive Health journal report states:

Quote:
Young Arabs contemplating marriage are nowadays seeking a scientifically sound answer to their questions: "Will our children be physically or mentally abnormal if I marry my cousin?" "How can we prevent having abnormal children?" Research on inbreeding is considered a priority in societies with high consanguinity rates to help understand and prevent the deleterious impact of consanguinity on health.


So it appears that muslims themselves are starting to realize that inbreeding is wrong and can / has caused very serious problems (mental and physical) for them.




Your article identifies the genetic/linguistic group of Arabs, Moses. They are what we call a race. Arabs comprise of Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, and even other strange religions.

The journal of Reproductive Health makes absolutely no reference to Muslims. I've even tried a keyword search.

Was this a mistake as well?
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #80 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:23pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:20pm:
moses wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
karnal wrote:Reply #61 - Yesterday at 4:08pm
Quote:
So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?


I thought I'd cleared that up in Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am

Where I posted:

I got my quoted references here

This is a direct link to  Nicolai Sennels' report on Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society.

I also gave several other links all of which are used in the studies of Nicolai Sennels.

Quote:
Did you make a mistake in your referencing


It appears for some people I probably did.

However several direct extracts from Reproductive Health journal such as: 

Quote:
Negative Effects of Consanguinity on Reproductive Health

Approximately 3-5% of all live newborns have a medically significant birth defect. The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia

&

puts the offspring of first cousin unions at a 1.7-2.8% increased risk for congenital defects above the population background risk

&

cousin progeny experience 4.4% more pre-reproductive deaths than the offspring of non-consanguineous unions

&

consanguineous marriage being an important factor contributing to the preponderance of autosomal recessive genetic disorders

&

higher rates of postnatal mortality and birth defects in offspring of consanguineous parents.


All support the claim that incest among  muslims is a pernicious practice.

In fact the very last paragraph of the Reproductive Health journal report states:

Quote:
Young Arabs contemplating marriage are nowadays seeking a scientifically sound answer to their questions: "Will our children be physically or mentally abnormal if I marry my cousin?" "How can we prevent having abnormal children?" Research on inbreeding is considered a priority in societies with high consanguinity rates to help understand and prevent the deleterious impact of consanguinity on health.


So it appears that muslims themselves are starting to realize that inbreeding is wrong and can / has caused very serious problems (mental and physical) for them.




Your article identifies the genetic/linguistic group of Arabs, Moses. They are what we call a race. Arabs comprise of Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, and even other strange religions.

The journal of Reproductive Health makes absolutely no reference to Muslims. I've even tried a keyword search.

Was this a mistake as well?


Hmm I wonder what most Arab people refer to for behavioural guidance.  It must be the bible. Or perhaps it's all the Canadian yip incest?  Must be that.

Also, not a race but an ethnicity.  Get it right. 
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« Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:30pm by sir prince duke alevine »  

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #81 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:28pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:20pm:
moses wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
karnal wrote:Reply #61 - Yesterday at 4:08pm
Quote:
So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?


I thought I'd cleared that up in Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am

Where I posted:

I got my quoted references here

This is a direct link to  Nicolai Sennels' report on Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society.

I also gave several other links all of which are used in the studies of Nicolai Sennels.

Quote:
Did you make a mistake in your referencing


It appears for some people I probably did.

However several direct extracts from Reproductive Health journal such as: 

Quote:
Negative Effects of Consanguinity on Reproductive Health

Approximately 3-5% of all live newborns have a medically significant birth defect. The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia

&

puts the offspring of first cousin unions at a 1.7-2.8% increased risk for congenital defects above the population background risk

&

cousin progeny experience 4.4% more pre-reproductive deaths than the offspring of non-consanguineous unions

&

consanguineous marriage being an important factor contributing to the preponderance of autosomal recessive genetic disorders

&

higher rates of postnatal mortality and birth defects in offspring of consanguineous parents.


All support the claim that incest among  muslims is a pernicious practice.

In fact the very last paragraph of the Reproductive Health journal report states:

Quote:
Young Arabs contemplating marriage are nowadays seeking a scientifically sound answer to their questions: "Will our children be physically or mentally abnormal if I marry my cousin?" "How can we prevent having abnormal children?" Research on inbreeding is considered a priority in societies with high consanguinity rates to help understand and prevent the deleterious impact of consanguinity on health.


So it appears that muslims themselves are starting to realize that inbreeding is wrong and can / has caused very serious problems (mental and physical) for them.




Your article identifies the genetic/linguistic group of Arabs, Moses. They are what we call a race. Arabs comprise of Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, and even other strange religions.

The journal of Reproductive Health makes absolutely no reference to Muslims. I've even tried a keyword search.

Was this a mistake as well?


Hmm I wonder what most Arab people refer to for behavioural guidance.  It must be the bible. Or perhaps it's all the Canadian yip incest?  Must be that.

Also, not a race but an ethnicity.  Get it right. 


Glad to have you back, Alevine. What book do Indians refer to?

They have the same inbreeding levels as the ethnicity you unracistly refer to as Arabs.
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freediver
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #82 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:50pm
 
Muhammad had sex with his relatives. While the church has outlawed consanguineous marriages at various times in the past, often to absurd levels, Islamic countries to this day are hobbled in their efforts to prevent the practice because to say it is wrong is to insult the prophet. The could get rid of the entire burden of inbreeding in a single generation, simply by not having sex with their relatives, but because of Islam it is not going to happen.

The link between Arabs and inbreeding is as strong as the historical link between Arabs and Islam.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #83 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:04am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:28pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:20pm:
moses wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
karnal wrote:Reply #61 - Yesterday at 4:08pm
Quote:
So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?


I thought I'd cleared that up in Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am

Where I posted:

I got my quoted references here

This is a direct link to  Nicolai Sennels' report on Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society.

I also gave several other links all of which are used in the studies of Nicolai Sennels.

Quote:
Did you make a mistake in your referencing


It appears for some people I probably did.

However several direct extracts from Reproductive Health journal such as: 

Quote:
Negative Effects of Consanguinity on Reproductive Health

Approximately 3-5% of all live newborns have a medically significant birth defect. The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia

&

puts the offspring of first cousin unions at a 1.7-2.8% increased risk for congenital defects above the population background risk

&

cousin progeny experience 4.4% more pre-reproductive deaths than the offspring of non-consanguineous unions

&

consanguineous marriage being an important factor contributing to the preponderance of autosomal recessive genetic disorders

&

higher rates of postnatal mortality and birth defects in offspring of consanguineous parents.


All support the claim that incest among  muslims is a pernicious practice.

In fact the very last paragraph of the Reproductive Health journal report states:

Quote:
Young Arabs contemplating marriage are nowadays seeking a scientifically sound answer to their questions: "Will our children be physically or mentally abnormal if I marry my cousin?" "How can we prevent having abnormal children?" Research on inbreeding is considered a priority in societies with high consanguinity rates to help understand and prevent the deleterious impact of consanguinity on health.


So it appears that muslims themselves are starting to realize that inbreeding is wrong and can / has caused very serious problems (mental and physical) for them.




Your article identifies the genetic/linguistic group of Arabs, Moses. They are what we call a race. Arabs comprise of Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, and even other strange religions.

The journal of Reproductive Health makes absolutely no reference to Muslims. I've even tried a keyword search.

Was this a mistake as well?


Hmm I wonder what most Arab people refer to for behavioural guidance.  It must be the bible. Or perhaps it's all the Canadian yip incest?  Must be that.

Also, not a race but an ethnicity.  Get it right. 


Glad to have you back, Alevine. What book do Indians refer to?

They have the same inbreeding levels as the ethnicity you unracistly refer to as Arabs.

Which Indians, Karnal? Southern, Northern, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh?  The point being made, which you of course failed to miss (as you do every point), is that we have to look at what drives behaviours, and not just classify something as a 'regional' problem because it is too inconvenient to suggest it may be a 'religion' problem.  For instance, Karnal, can it perhaps be said that on average Aussies take quicker showers than europeans, because our behaviour has been driven by our regional condition.  In this case, our behaviour is driven by the region having a lack of water for decades. 

Now. if this isn't a religious issue, then what regional condition causes Arabs or Indians, as a ethnic group from a region, to inbreed? Or could it be that their behaviours are driven by something else...perhaps some teachings?  Especially given the highly questionable actions of a certain prophet? What do you think?

BTW, of course, incest may very well inflict Hindu teachings as much as islamic teachings.  Or it could be that it impacts the muslim population in India only. I don't know, Karnal. But I fail to see how this point helps establish that inbreeding is not a problem in Islam?  Mm?  Karnal? Do you ever make any sense, dear?
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« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:16am by sir prince duke alevine »  

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #84 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:17am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:50pm:
Muhammad had sex with his relatives. While the church has outlawed consanguineous marriages at various times in the past, often to absurd levels, Islamic countries to this day are hobbled in their efforts to prevent the practice because to say it is wrong is to insult the prophet. The could get rid of the entire burden of inbreeding in a single generation, simply by not having sex with their relatives, but because of Islam it is not going to happen.

The link between Arabs and inbreeding is as strong as the historical link between Arabs and Islam.


Well yes - and Hindus. Don't forget them, FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #85 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:20am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:04am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:28pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:20pm:
moses wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
karnal wrote:Reply #61 - Yesterday at 4:08pm
Quote:
So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?


I thought I'd cleared that up in Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am

Where I posted:

I got my quoted references here

This is a direct link to  Nicolai Sennels' report on Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society.

I also gave several other links all of which are used in the studies of Nicolai Sennels.

Quote:
Did you make a mistake in your referencing


It appears for some people I probably did.

However several direct extracts from Reproductive Health journal such as: 

Quote:
Negative Effects of Consanguinity on Reproductive Health

Approximately 3-5% of all live newborns have a medically significant birth defect. The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia

&

puts the offspring of first cousin unions at a 1.7-2.8% increased risk for congenital defects above the population background risk

&

cousin progeny experience 4.4% more pre-reproductive deaths than the offspring of non-consanguineous unions

&

consanguineous marriage being an important factor contributing to the preponderance of autosomal recessive genetic disorders

&

higher rates of postnatal mortality and birth defects in offspring of consanguineous parents.


All support the claim that incest among  muslims is a pernicious practice.

In fact the very last paragraph of the Reproductive Health journal report states:

Quote:
Young Arabs contemplating marriage are nowadays seeking a scientifically sound answer to their questions: "Will our children be physically or mentally abnormal if I marry my cousin?" "How can we prevent having abnormal children?" Research on inbreeding is considered a priority in societies with high consanguinity rates to help understand and prevent the deleterious impact of consanguinity on health.


So it appears that muslims themselves are starting to realize that inbreeding is wrong and can / has caused very serious problems (mental and physical) for them.




Your article identifies the genetic/linguistic group of Arabs, Moses. They are what we call a race. Arabs comprise of Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, and even other strange religions.

The journal of Reproductive Health makes absolutely no reference to Muslims. I've even tried a keyword search.

Was this a mistake as well?


Hmm I wonder what most Arab people refer to for behavioural guidance.  It must be the bible. Or perhaps it's all the Canadian yip incest?  Must be that.

Also, not a race but an ethnicity.  Get it right. 


Glad to have you back, Alevine. What book do Indians refer to?

They have the same inbreeding levels as the ethnicity you unracistly refer to as Arabs.

Which Indians, Karnal? Southern, Northern, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh?  The point being made, which you of course failed to miss (as you do every point), is that we have to look at what drives behaviours, and not just classify something as a 'regional' problem because it is too inconvenient to suggest it may be a 'religion' problem.  For instance, Karnal, can it perhaps be said that on average Aussies take quicker showers than europeans, because our behaviour has been driven by our regional condition.  In this case, our behaviour is driven by the region having a lack of water for decades. 

Now. if this isn't a religious issue, then what regional condition causes Arabs or Indians, as a ethnic group from a region, to inbreed? Or could it be that their behaviours are driven by something else...perhaps some teachings?  Especially given the highly questionable actions of a certain prophet? What do you think?

BTW, of course, incest may very well inflict Hindu teachings as much as islamic teachings.  Or it could be that it impacts the muslim population in India only. I don't know, Karnal. But I fail to see how this point helps establish that inbreeding is not a problem in Islam?  Mm?  Karnal? Do you ever make any sense, dear?


No worries, Alevine. Show us the world's biggest Muslim country on FD's map, okay?

Cheers.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #86 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:26am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:20am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:04am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:28pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 10:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 8:20pm:
moses wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 3:38pm:
karnal wrote:Reply #61 - Yesterday at 4:08pm
Quote:
So why didn't you reference his blog, where you got your quote from?


I thought I'd cleared that up in Reply #48 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 11:51am

Where I posted:

I got my quoted references here

This is a direct link to  Nicolai Sennels' report on Muslim-Inbreeding-Impacts-on-intelligence-sanity-health-and-society.

I also gave several other links all of which are used in the studies of Nicolai Sennels.

Quote:
Did you make a mistake in your referencing


It appears for some people I probably did.

However several direct extracts from Reproductive Health journal such as: 

Quote:
Negative Effects of Consanguinity on Reproductive Health

Approximately 3-5% of all live newborns have a medically significant birth defect. The recent report by March of Dimes estimated birth defects to be >69.9/1000 live births in most Arab countries, as opposed to <52.1/1000 live births in Europe, North America and Australia

&

puts the offspring of first cousin unions at a 1.7-2.8% increased risk for congenital defects above the population background risk

&

cousin progeny experience 4.4% more pre-reproductive deaths than the offspring of non-consanguineous unions

&

consanguineous marriage being an important factor contributing to the preponderance of autosomal recessive genetic disorders

&

higher rates of postnatal mortality and birth defects in offspring of consanguineous parents.


All support the claim that incest among  muslims is a pernicious practice.

In fact the very last paragraph of the Reproductive Health journal report states:

Quote:
Young Arabs contemplating marriage are nowadays seeking a scientifically sound answer to their questions: "Will our children be physically or mentally abnormal if I marry my cousin?" "How can we prevent having abnormal children?" Research on inbreeding is considered a priority in societies with high consanguinity rates to help understand and prevent the deleterious impact of consanguinity on health.


So it appears that muslims themselves are starting to realize that inbreeding is wrong and can / has caused very serious problems (mental and physical) for them.




Your article identifies the genetic/linguistic group of Arabs, Moses. They are what we call a race. Arabs comprise of Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, and even other strange religions.

The journal of Reproductive Health makes absolutely no reference to Muslims. I've even tried a keyword search.

Was this a mistake as well?


Hmm I wonder what most Arab people refer to for behavioural guidance.  It must be the bible. Or perhaps it's all the Canadian yip incest?  Must be that.

Also, not a race but an ethnicity.  Get it right. 


Glad to have you back, Alevine. What book do Indians refer to?

They have the same inbreeding levels as the ethnicity you unracistly refer to as Arabs.

Which Indians, Karnal? Southern, Northern, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh?  The point being made, which you of course failed to miss (as you do every point), is that we have to look at what drives behaviours, and not just classify something as a 'regional' problem because it is too inconvenient to suggest it may be a 'religion' problem.  For instance, Karnal, can it perhaps be said that on average Aussies take quicker showers than europeans, because our behaviour has been driven by our regional condition.  In this case, our behaviour is driven by the region having a lack of water for decades. 

Now. if this isn't a religious issue, then what regional condition causes Arabs or Indians, as a ethnic group from a region, to inbreed? Or could it be that their behaviours are driven by something else...perhaps some teachings?  Especially given the highly questionable actions of a certain prophet? What do you think?

BTW, of course, incest may very well inflict Hindu teachings as much as islamic teachings.  Or it could be that it impacts the muslim population in India only. I don't know, Karnal. But I fail to see how this point helps establish that inbreeding is not a problem in Islam?  Mm?  Karnal? Do you ever make any sense, dear?


No worries, Alevine. Show us the world's biggest Muslim country on FD's map, okay?

Cheers.


It must be those Canadian Yips after all, Karnal.

Incest, Rape, FGM, child marriage, are all the problems of islamic states because of Canadian Yips.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #87 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 5:40pm
 
And Burqas, Alevine, don't forget them.

I blame Islam.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #88 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:40pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
And Burqas, Alevine, don't forget them.

I blame Islam.

You reckon those children already have children? Ah, islam. Paradise.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #89 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:47pm
 
People don't just start having sex with their cousin because they convert to Islam. Ask Gandalf. But the longer a place has been dominated by Islam, the worse it is. That's what the maps show, and they would look very much the same for any indicator you choose. They turn women into chattels first, then come the arranged marriages, then the inbreeding. I would expect Aceh to be heading that way noticeably already.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #90 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?


Quote:
They are questions Gandalf. I am asking for your answer.


Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway. Like this:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #91 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:16pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:17am:
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:50pm:
Muhammad had sex with his relatives. While the church has outlawed consanguineous marriages at various times in the past, often to absurd levels, Islamic countries to this day are hobbled in their efforts to prevent the practice because to say it is wrong is to insult the prophet. The could get rid of the entire burden of inbreeding in a single generation, simply by not having sex with their relatives, but because of Islam it is not going to happen.

The link between Arabs and inbreeding is as strong as the historical link between Arabs and Islam.


Well yes - and Hindus. Don't forget them, FD.


Animist/Christian central Africa has inbreeding levels at least as bad if not worse than arab countries. I guess we can blame Muhammad for that too.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #92 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
People don't just start having sex with their cousin because they convert to Islam. Ask Gandalf.


True - but they do magically become intellectually disabled inbreds who squat to pee. Well at least the males do. Ask moses.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #93 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:42pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:16pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 12:17am:
freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:50pm:
Muhammad had sex with his relatives. While the church has outlawed consanguineous marriages at various times in the past, often to absurd levels, Islamic countries to this day are hobbled in their efforts to prevent the practice because to say it is wrong is to insult the prophet. The could get rid of the entire burden of inbreeding in a single generation, simply by not having sex with their relatives, but because of Islam it is not going to happen.

The link between Arabs and inbreeding is as strong as the historical link between Arabs and Islam.


Well yes - and Hindus. Don't forget them, FD.


Animist/Christian central Africa has inbreeding levels at least as bad if not worse than arab countries. I guess we can blame Muhammad for that too.


This is just such a stupendous argument. Rape exists everywhere therefore let's not care about it type of argument.  Like I've said, it's what causes the behaviour that is of issue, not that the issue happens to be prevalent amongst other religions also. 

Any more ignorant dribble, gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #94 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:49pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:40pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
And Burqas, Alevine, don't forget them.

I blame Islam.

You reckon those children already have children? Ah, islam. Paradise.


I know. You blame Islam for Canadian Yids too, ya?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #95 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:05pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
This is just such a stupendous argument. Rape exists everywhere therefore let's not care about it type of argument.  Like I've said, it's what causes the behaviour that is of issue


Sorry alevine, my bad. I'll be sure to "care" more in the future - by blaming Islam.



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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #96 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:11pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
This is just such a stupendous argument. Rape exists everywhere therefore let's not care about it type of argument.  Like I've said, it's what causes the behaviour that is of issue


Sorry alevine, my bad. I'll be sure to "care" more in the future - by blaming Islam.




for incest in Arabic countries? I'm glad you will, rather than excusing it by talking about animists.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #97 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm
 
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #98 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:27pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

I'm sure the animists made them do it.  Or perhaps the Canadian Yids? Karnal?

Casting doubt would be offering an alternative explanation for the behaviour, not simply pointing out that other religions/beliefs may cause similar behaviour.  No one ever said that incest was solely an issue for islam.  Simply stupendous reasoning, gandalf. Sorry, but it really is.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #99 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #100 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

I'm sure the animists made them do it.  Or perhaps the Canadian Yids? Karnal?


Indeed. Orthodox Canadians have some of the highest inbreeding rates in the world.

Shurely shome mishtake, nein?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #101 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #102 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #103 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #104 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:15pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
People don't just start having sex with their cousin because they convert to Islam. Ask Gandalf. But the longer a place has been dominated by Islam, the worse it is. That's what the maps show, and they would look very much the same for any indicator you choose. They turn women into chattels first, then come the arranged marriages, then the inbreeding. I would expect Aceh to be heading that way noticeably already.


Couldn't be, FD. They don't interbreed with the Negroid subgene - unless you count Malays, I guess.

That could be a plausible theory too.

Better put in it the Wiki, FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #105 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine. They're up there with Druze as the highest inbreeders on the planet.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #106 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:19pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Islam ain't  stoppin' them either. What DOES Islam teach them, then?

Mutilate your women, make them wear sacks, kill and subjugate 'diverse' people.  ISLAM. Dontcha love it?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #107 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #108 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #109 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:25pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:19pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Islam ain't  stoppin' them either. What DOES Islam teach them, then?

Mutilate your women, make them wear sacks, kill and subjugate 'diverse' people.  ISLAM. Dontcha love it?

Marrying daughters not allowed.  But cousins is okay.

Is that it, karnal?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #110 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:28pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:25pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:19pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Islam ain't  stoppin' them either. What DOES Islam teach them, then?

Mutilate your women, make them wear sacks, kill and subjugate 'diverse' people.  ISLAM. Dontcha love it?

Marrying daughters not allowed.  But cousins is okay.

Is that it, karnal?


I'm not sure. I read the old boy's post as a waste of time.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #111 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm
 
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?

Quote:
Animist/Christian central Africa has inbreeding levels at least as bad if not worse than arab countries.

What makes you think that?

Quote:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

Are you suggesting there is no causal link between Muhammad having sex with his relatives and the high levels of incest in traditional Muslim communities, and the modern difficulties that the medical community has in advising against it without upsetting religious sensibilities? Is this why you won't answer the question about modern Muslims being a mindless collective?

BTW the Arabs have plenty of neighbours. That's why they call it the middle east.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #112 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:32pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?


I never said incest was solely an issue for Islam. But it definitely is yet another issue with Islam, that makes this particular religion nothing more than a basket case of bad ideas.  Incest, rape, FGM, child marriage, the list of stupid crap that plagues the muslim world doesn't seem to end. 

But it must all be because of medieval practices before the time of Islam. Because you know... it can't possibly be the result of behaviour being taught by the interpretations of archaic musings of a warlord.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #113 - Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?

Quote:
Animist/Christian central Africa has inbreeding levels at least as bad if not worse than arab countries.

What makes you think that?

Quote:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

Are you suggesting there is no causal link between Muhammad having sex with his relatives and the high levels of incest in traditional Muslim communities, and the modern difficulties that the medical community has in advising against it without upsetting religious sensibilities? Is this why you won't answer the question about modern Muslims being a mindless collective?

BTW the Arabs have plenty of neighbours. That's why they call it the middle east.


What do you think, Alevine? FD, remember, changed his mind.

Can I ask why they're Yips?

You haven't said.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #114 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:15am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?


I never said incest was solely an issue for Islam. But it definitely is yet another issue with Islam, that makes this particular religion nothing more than a basket case of bad ideas.  Incest, rape, FGM, child marriage, the list of stupid crap that plagues the muslim world doesn't seem to end. 

But it must all be because of medieval practices before the time of Islam. Because you know... it can't possibly be the result of behaviour being taught by the interpretations of archaic musings of a warlord.



All of the things you mentioned are factors in other religions, yes? And not practised by all Muslims or spoken on the Quran?

Remeber now ... 1.6 billion of them. Perhaps you need reminding of that.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #115 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 2:48am
 
mothra wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:15am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?


I never said incest was solely an issue for Islam. But it definitely is yet another issue with Islam, that makes this particular religion nothing more than a basket case of bad ideas.  Incest, rape, FGM, child marriage, the list of stupid crap that plagues the muslim world doesn't seem to end. 

But it must all be because of medieval practices before the time of Islam. Because you know... it can't possibly be the result of behaviour being taught by the interpretations of archaic musings of a warlord.



All of the things you mentioned are factors in other religions, yes? And not practised by all Muslims or spoken on the Quran?

Remeber now ... 1.6 billion of them. Perhaps you need reminding of that.


Not to the same calibre.  We know the vast problems with rape and islam, and we know FGM is almost exclusively an issue for Islam.  And I don't get your numbers concern? I'd say that there are probably a random 1.6 billion people on this planet, regardless of religion or culture, who share in a belief that women are lesser than men to some degree, whether that be that they stay home and cook or that thye are literally sex slaves to the male.  Does that validate the belief that 'women are lesser than men' ? I mean, 1.6 billion people would agree to some extent so if we are to use this as some sort of weighting for whether or not we can raise legitimate concerns about a belief then we'd always all keep our mouths shut for just about every issue.  I don't care that 1.6 billion people follow islam in some shape or form. I look at the majority group and its beliefs, which is the conservative mulsim group, and based on the state of the islamic states where their beliefs are practiced I say WTF, this is all so horribly wrong!  AND can I add mothra, that if even 1% of muslims get impacted by incest then that's 16 million people. Now, we know actually it's a whole lot higher, but do you realise how in fact the number of people that islam impacts actually does indeed matter quite a bit? rather than tell me to keep hush because of the number of people I may be insulting because I believe the teachings are so fcked up, you should be siding with me to stop 16 million people (and many more) from being impacted by the terrible teachings.

And I'm ever so surprised at you - you claim to be a feminist and yet when it comes to islam you quickly shy away from your feminist beliefs.  Mothra, stop supporting what is probably the most prominent anti-feminist ideology in the world today.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #116 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:01am
 
Well, aside from being wrong about everything in the first paragraph you try to feminist-shame me? Are you for real? I expect that kind of crap from some of the other dickheads on here Alevine but it's a new low for you.

It is, in fact, how easily women reconcile their Muslim beliefs with their feminist principles that makes it so easy to defend from a feminist perspective ... comparitive to other mainstream religions at least. I, as a feminist, fully support all women in their representation of their beliefs ... i don't negate them because they attract less attention than women who are oppressed. Of which there are many in some Muslim majority countries.

... and some Muslims are just revolting.

Still, i don't understand why Muslims specifically aren't allowed to have whack-a-doodles and arseholes amongst their ranks. Everyone else is.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #117 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:31am
 
mothra wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:15am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?


I never said incest was solely an issue for Islam. But it definitely is yet another issue with Islam, that makes this particular religion nothing more than a basket case of bad ideas.  Incest, rape, FGM, child marriage, the list of stupid crap that plagues the muslim world doesn't seem to end. 

But it must all be because of medieval practices before the time of Islam. Because you know... it can't possibly be the result of behaviour being taught by the interpretations of archaic musings of a warlord.



All of the things you mentioned are factors in other religions, yes? And not practised by all Muslims or spoken on the Quran?

Remeber now ... 1.6 billion of them. Perhaps you need reminding of that.


Muhammad had sex with his relatives. Therefor Muslims cannot say that incest is either immoral or stupid or unnatural. This has very real implications for medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries. The religion is a minefield for them. Islam does not just happen to coincide with incest. It actually causes it.

Jesus did not. At various times in history the church has officially banned incest, up to limits so absurd (ie sharing a common ancestor up to 6 to 10 generations back) that it became a genuine burden to keep track of.

There are plenty of other similar issues, and the fact that Muhammad was a political, military and religious leaders means all the political, military and religious crap from 7th century Arabia now has the seal of approval from Islam. Sex slavery, dictatorship, slaughtering innocent people on the weakest of pretexts etc. Incest is the least of Islam's problems. At least it is voluntary.

Quote:
I, as a feminist, fully support all women in their representation of their beliefs ...


Even if they are idiots and their beliefs and representations undermine women's rights?

Even if their beliefs are that non-Muslim women should become sex slaves for Muslim men and they should help make this happen?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #118 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 5:05am
 
mothra wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:01am:
Well, aside from being wrong about everything in the first paragraph you try to feminist-shame me? Are you for real? I expect that kind of crap from some of the other dickheads on here Alevine but it's a new low for you.

It is, in fact, how easily women reconcile their Muslim beliefs with their feminist principles that makes it so easy to defend from a feminist perspective ... comparitive to other mainstream religions at least. I, as a feminist, fully support all women in their representation of their beliefs ... i don't negate them because they attract less attention than women who are oppressed. Of which there are many in some Muslim majority countries.

... and some Muslims are just revolting.

Still, i don't understand why Muslims specifically aren't allowed to have whack-a-doodles and arseholes amongst their ranks. Everyone else is.

Would you care to elaborate on what I was wrong about in the first paragraph?

And yes, every religion has whack a doodles and arseholes. Except it is Muslim aresholes who go around driving over people in the name of their religion. It is Muslim arseholes who have state sanctioned stoning of women for being raped, in the name of their religion. And it is Muslim arseholes who go about raping because they think their religion allows for it, or performing genital mutilation on their little girls, or treating women as sex objects who must be hidden from the world.  Every religion has its whack a doodles. But not every whack a doodle is equal. If Muslim whack a doodles were the same as Hare Krishna whack a doodles, then I wouldn't really care: let them sit for ever in silence and in fear of killing an ant.

As for reconciling beliefs and feminism, when it comes to Islam. I'd say that's really a luxury only afforded in countries like Australia, where luckily our principles do reduce the threat of having your throat slit for standing out. But the biggest problem with women who pretend Islam is great for women and is somehow a feminist religion is that while you may interpret this within Australia and not face the same level of treat, at the same time you end up becoming oblivious to the hundreds of millions of women in Islam who are forced by their religion and so called culture to take on a role in society that is clearly that of a subservient to men.  And I can bet you that if it were white women in the western world you wouldn't be sitting around trying to tell us how compatible Islam is with feminism. You wouldn't peddle nonsense while hundreds of millions continue to live a secondary life to yours.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #119 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:32am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

I'm sure the animists made them do it.  Or perhaps the Canadian Yids? Karnal?

Casting doubt would be offering an alternative explanation for the behaviour, not simply pointing out that other religions/beliefs may cause similar behaviour.  No one ever said that incest was solely an issue for islam.  Simply stupendous reasoning, gandalf. Sorry, but it really is.


Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #120 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:40am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?



Wow so much obfuscation to excuse porkies.

FD - very simply, do you understand this is a flat out lie:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


?

Does that not bother you?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #121 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:31am:
mothra wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:15am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?


I never said incest was solely an issue for Islam. But it definitely is yet another issue with Islam, that makes this particular religion nothing more than a basket case of bad ideas.  Incest, rape, FGM, child marriage, the list of stupid crap that plagues the muslim world doesn't seem to end. 

But it must all be because of medieval practices before the time of Islam. Because you know... it can't possibly be the result of behaviour being taught by the interpretations of archaic musings of a warlord.



All of the things you mentioned are factors in other religions, yes? And not practised by all Muslims or spoken on the Quran?

Remeber now ... 1.6 billion of them. Perhaps you need reminding of that.


Muhammad had sex with his relatives. Therefor Muslims cannot say that incest is either immoral or stupid or unnatural. This has very real implications for medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries. The religion is a minefield for them. Islam does not just happen to coincide with incest. It actually causes it.

Jesus did not. At various times in history the church has officially banned incest, up to limits so absurd (ie sharing a common ancestor up to 6 to 10 generations back) that it became a genuine burden to keep track of.

There are plenty of other similar issues, and the fact that Muhammad was a political, military and religious leaders means all the political, military and religious crap from 7th century Arabia now has the seal of approval from Islam. Sex slavery, dictatorship, slaughtering innocent people on the weakest of pretexts etc. Incest is the least of Islam's problems. At least it is voluntary.

Quote:
I, as a feminist, fully support all women in their representation of their beliefs ...


Even if they are idiots and their beliefs and representations undermine women's rights?

Even if their beliefs are that non-Muslim women should become sex slaves for Muslim men and they should help make this happen?


Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Thanks, FD.

Alevine, FGM is pre-Islamic. Cleopatra was circumcised. To my knowledge, there is no Islamic ritual for FGM. African Christians do it.

FGM is understood in the places it's performed as a cultural phenomenon, and not religious. The same applies for male circumcision, despite it being a Muslim practice.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #122 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 11:58am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?



Wow so much obfuscation to excuse porkies.

FD - very simply, do you understand this is a flat out lie:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


?

Does that not bother you?


Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #123 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:32am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

I'm sure the animists made them do it.  Or perhaps the Canadian Yids? Karnal?

Casting doubt would be offering an alternative explanation for the behaviour, not simply pointing out that other religions/beliefs may cause similar behaviour.  No one ever said that incest was solely an issue for islam.  Simply stupendous reasoning, gandalf. Sorry, but it really is.


Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.

Why?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #124 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:57pm
 
karnal Today at 9:41am

Quote:
Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?


Incest was prohibited as one of the earliest Hebrew teachings:

Leviticus says:
Quote:
18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.
18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto


I'd say near of kin to you means just that, don't practice incest.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #125 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 5:35pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41am:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:31am:
mothra wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:15am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?


I never said incest was solely an issue for Islam. But it definitely is yet another issue with Islam, that makes this particular religion nothing more than a basket case of bad ideas.  Incest, rape, FGM, child marriage, the list of stupid crap that plagues the muslim world doesn't seem to end. 

But it must all be because of medieval practices before the time of Islam. Because you know... it can't possibly be the result of behaviour being taught by the interpretations of archaic musings of a warlord.



All of the things you mentioned are factors in other religions, yes? And not practised by all Muslims or spoken on the Quran?

Remeber now ... 1.6 billion of them. Perhaps you need reminding of that.


Muhammad had sex with his relatives. Therefor Muslims cannot say that incest is either immoral or stupid or unnatural. This has very real implications for medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries. The religion is a minefield for them. Islam does not just happen to coincide with incest. It actually causes it.

Jesus did not. At various times in history the church has officially banned incest, up to limits so absurd (ie sharing a common ancestor up to 6 to 10 generations back) that it became a genuine burden to keep track of.

There are plenty of other similar issues, and the fact that Muhammad was a political, military and religious leaders means all the political, military and religious crap from 7th century Arabia now has the seal of approval from Islam. Sex slavery, dictatorship, slaughtering innocent people on the weakest of pretexts etc. Incest is the least of Islam's problems. At least it is voluntary.

Quote:
I, as a feminist, fully support all women in their representation of their beliefs ...


Even if they are idiots and their beliefs and representations undermine women's rights?

Even if their beliefs are that non-Muslim women should become sex slaves for Muslim men and they should help make this happen?


Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Thanks, FD.

Alevine, FGM is pre-Islamic. Cleopatra was circumcised. To my knowledge, there is no Islamic ritual for FGM. African Christians do it.

FGM is understood in the places it's performed as a cultural phenomenon, and not religious. The same applies for male circumcision, despite it being a Muslim practice.


Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths mmm?  And I think you ought to go look at the statistics again, mr statistician. You'll find that *predominately* this sickness inflicts the muslim world.  Just ask mothra if you can't find them, I think she'll go telling you the last predominately 'christian' country to have widespread FGM that she tried to tell us about was actually predominately muslim.  And I think you'll also find that within African countries with predominately christian faith, the FGm that exists happens to be within the minority muslim population.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #126 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:37pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm:
Why?


You really didn't consider an alternative to "Its all Islam's fault" did you?

Now thats what I call "stupendous".
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #127 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:01pm
 
moses wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:57pm:
karnal Today at 9:41am

Quote:
Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?


Incest was prohibited as one of the earliest Hebrew teachings:

Leviticus says:
Quote:
18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.
18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto


I'd say near of kin to you means just that, don't practice incest.


I'd say so too, Moses. Well, sort of.

But can you say where the church banned incest?

Help FD out. He doesn't answer questions.

Freeeedom, innit.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #128 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 5:35pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41am:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:31am:
mothra wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 1:15am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:24pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:11pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:03pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.


Now now, G, that would be stupendous.

Ah of course, the region must have always lacked in numbers of men and women who weren't related to each other!  That must be the cause. Yes, karnal?


Not at all. The region has always married off daughters to family members. This keeps wealth within the clan. This is far older than Islam, as every schoolboy knows.

Ahhh, and the reason the region has decided to uphold a medieval culture? Well, except Israel of course.


Except Israeli Orthodox Yips, Alevine.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we calling them Yips?

Oh so then it is because of religion, but only amongst Orthodox Jews? In the rest of the Arab world it's not Islam, it's a medieval practice they've never really been able to shake off. Probably because but of the Jews. But only the religious ones. Yes, karnal?

You're a hoot, and a great waste of time  Smiley


Thanks, Alevine. You've moved on from blaming Islam to religions, eh? You've got to blame someone, I guess.

So why are we calling them Yips again?


I never said incest was solely an issue for Islam. But it definitely is yet another issue with Islam, that makes this particular religion nothing more than a basket case of bad ideas.  Incest, rape, FGM, child marriage, the list of stupid crap that plagues the muslim world doesn't seem to end. 

But it must all be because of medieval practices before the time of Islam. Because you know... it can't possibly be the result of behaviour being taught by the interpretations of archaic musings of a warlord.



All of the things you mentioned are factors in other religions, yes? And not practised by all Muslims or spoken on the Quran?

Remeber now ... 1.6 billion of them. Perhaps you need reminding of that.


Muhammad had sex with his relatives. Therefor Muslims cannot say that incest is either immoral or stupid or unnatural. This has very real implications for medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries. The religion is a minefield for them. Islam does not just happen to coincide with incest. It actually causes it.

Jesus did not. At various times in history the church has officially banned incest, up to limits so absurd (ie sharing a common ancestor up to 6 to 10 generations back) that it became a genuine burden to keep track of.

There are plenty of other similar issues, and the fact that Muhammad was a political, military and religious leaders means all the political, military and religious crap from 7th century Arabia now has the seal of approval from Islam. Sex slavery, dictatorship, slaughtering innocent people on the weakest of pretexts etc. Incest is the least of Islam's problems. At least it is voluntary.

Quote:
I, as a feminist, fully support all women in their representation of their beliefs ...


Even if they are idiots and their beliefs and representations undermine women's rights?

Even if their beliefs are that non-Muslim women should become sex slaves for Muslim men and they should help make this happen?


Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Thanks, FD.

Alevine, FGM is pre-Islamic. Cleopatra was circumcised. To my knowledge, there is no Islamic ritual for FGM. African Christians do it.

FGM is understood in the places it's performed as a cultural phenomenon, and not religious. The same applies for male circumcision, despite it being a Muslim practice.


Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths, mmm?.


Then we agree.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #129 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:54pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:37pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm:
Why?


You really didn't consider an alternative to "Its all Islam's fault" did you?

Now thats what I call "stupendous".

I'm more curious why you think religion can't cause a behaviour. Grin  Stupdenous, gandalf, stupendous.

So do tell us, if I can't say that a religion, which people rely on to make their 'moral' decisions on, and which clearly stipulates that incest is A-OK, is the cause, then what else is it? Perhaps Cleopatra?   Karnal - did cleopatra have incestous relationships? I mean, given how completely relevant Cleopatra is to today's world I can see in plain daylight why people would still follow in her footsteps.
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:01pm by sir prince duke alevine »  

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #130 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:58pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm:
Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths, mmm?.


Then we agree.
[/quote]

Check the stats yet, Karnal?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #131 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:59pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:58pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm:
Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths, mmm?.


Then we agree.


Check the stats yet, Karnal? [/quote]

Which stats, Alevine?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #132 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:01pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:58pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm:
Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths, mmm?.


Then we agree.


Check the stats yet, Karnal?


Which stats, Alevine? [/quote]
Less cutting and pasting, Karnal Wink  Take the blinkers off.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #133 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:06pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:01pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:58pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm:
Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths, mmm?.


Then we agree.


Check the stats yet, Karnal?


Which stats, Alevine?

Less cutting and pasting, Karnal Wink  Take the blinkers off. [/quote]

Sorry? Which stats?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #134 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:09pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:01pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:58pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm:
Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths, mmm?.


Then we agree.


Check the stats yet, Karnal?


Which stats, Alevine?

Less cutting and pasting, Karnal Wink  Take the blinkers off.


Sorry? Which stats? [/quote]
have another read, Karnal. And a chat with mothra, she'll help you out.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #135 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:18pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?



Wow so much obfuscation to excuse porkies.

FD - very simply, do you understand this is a flat out lie:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


?

Does that not bother you?


That's what you did Gandalf. You were a bit mealy mouthed about it is all.

Why can you still not answer these questions? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Europe

Early Medieval Europe continued the late Roman ban on cousin marriage; under the law of the Catholic Church, couples were forbidden to marry if they were within four degrees of consanguinity.[clarification needed][25] In the ninth century, the church raised the number of prohibited degrees to seven and changed the method by which they were calculated.[26] Eventually, the nobility became too interrelated to marry easily as the local pool of unrelated prospective spouses became smaller; increasingly, large payments to the church were required for exemptions ("dispensations"), or retrospective legitimizations of children, in what amounted to a 'protection racket' by the church.[27] In 1215, the Fourth Lateran Council reduced the number of prohibited degrees of consanguinity from seven to four.[28][29] The method of calculating prohibited degrees was changed also.[30] Instead of the former practice of counting up to the common ancestor then down to the proposed spouse, the new law computed consanguinity by counting back to the common ancestor.[30] In the Roman Catholic Church, unknowingly marrying a closely consanguineous blood relative was grounds for a declaration of nullity, but during the 11th and 12th centuries, dispensations were granted with increasing frequency due to the thousands of persons encompassed in the prohibition at seven degrees and the hardships this posed for finding potential spouses.[31] After 1215, the general rule was that while fourth cousins could marry without dispensation, the need for dispensations was reduced.[31]

These might be the stats Alevine was talking about:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islamic_Incest_Ratchet

...
...
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:28pm by freediver »  

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #136 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:29pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:09pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:06pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:01pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:59pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:58pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:08pm:
Oh Karnal, we've been through this time and again. Yes, FGM may date back to before Mohammad.  But that doesn't mean that the behaviour today is because Cleopatra was circumsised, Perhaps it has something to do with some of the lovely hadiths, mmm?.


Then we agree.


Check the stats yet, Karnal?


Which stats, Alevine?

Less cutting and pasting, Karnal Wink  Take the blinkers off.


Sorry? Which stats?

have another read, Karnal. And a chat with mothra, she'll help you out. [/quote]

Read what?

Now I am curious.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #137 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:18pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?



Wow so much obfuscation to excuse porkies.

FD - very simply, do you understand this is a flat out lie:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


?

Does that not bother you?


That's what you did Gandalf. You were a bit mealy mouthed about it is all.

Why can you still not answer these questions? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Europe

Early Medieval Europe continued the late Roman ban on cousin marriage; under the law of the Catholic Church, couples were forbidden to marry if they were within four degrees of consanguinity.[clarification needed][25] In the ninth century, the church raised the number of prohibited degrees to seven and changed the method by which they were calculated.[26] Eventually, the nobility became too interrelated to marry easily as the local pool of unrelated prospective spouses became smaller; increasingly, large payments to the church were required for exemptions ("dispensations"), or retrospective legitimizations of children, in what amounted to a 'protection racket' by the church.[27] In 1215, the Fourth Lateran Council reduced the number of prohibited degrees of consanguinity from seven to four.[28][29] The method of calculating prohibited degrees was changed also.[30] Instead of the former practice of counting up to the common ancestor then down to the proposed spouse, the new law computed consanguinity by counting back to the common ancestor.[30] In the Roman Catholic Church, unknowingly marrying a closely consanguineous blood relative was grounds for a declaration of nullity, but during the 11th and 12th centuries, dispensations were granted with increasing frequency due to the thousands of persons encompassed in the prohibition at seven degrees and the hardships this posed for finding potential spouses.[31] After 1215, the general rule was that while fourth cousins could marry without dispensation, the need for dispensations was reduced.[31]

These might be the stats Alevine was talking about:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islamic_Incest_Ratchet

http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Global_prevalence_of_consanguinity.png
http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.png


Thanks, FD. What's your source?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #138 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:32pm
 
I got it off the wiki. The maps are straight from Wikipedia.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #139 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:32pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:18pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?



Wow so much obfuscation to excuse porkies.

FD - very simply, do you understand this is a flat out lie:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


?

Does that not bother you?


That's what you did Gandalf. You were a bit mealy mouthed about it is all.

Why can you still not answer these questions? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Europe

Early Medieval Europe continued the late Roman ban on cousin marriage; under the law of the Catholic Church, couples were forbidden to marry if they were within four degrees of consanguinity.[clarification needed][25] In the ninth century, the church raised the number of prohibited degrees to seven and changed the method by which they were calculated.[26] Eventually, the nobility became too interrelated to marry easily as the local pool of unrelated prospective spouses became smaller; increasingly, large payments to the church were required for exemptions ("dispensations"), or retrospective legitimizations of children, in what amounted to a 'protection racket' by the church.[27] In 1215, the Fourth Lateran Council reduced the number of prohibited degrees of consanguinity from seven to four.[28][29] The method of calculating prohibited degrees was changed also.[30] Instead of the former practice of counting up to the common ancestor then down to the proposed spouse, the new law computed consanguinity by counting back to the common ancestor.[30] In the Roman Catholic Church, unknowingly marrying a closely consanguineous blood relative was grounds for a declaration of nullity, but during the 11th and 12th centuries, dispensations were granted with increasing frequency due to the thousands of persons encompassed in the prohibition at seven degrees and the hardships this posed for finding potential spouses.[31] After 1215, the general rule was that while fourth cousins could marry without dispensation, the need for dispensations was reduced.[31]

These might be the stats Alevine was talking about:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islamic_Incest_Ratchet

http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Global_prevalence_of_consanguinity.png
http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.png


I think Cleopatra did it so that must be the reason, freediver. Just ask Karnal.

Wink
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #140 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm
 
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #141 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?

of course.  She has had such an influence on the culture that today's people want to be just like her.  There's even stories about how she lived her life, and the people try to lead by these examples.  Amazing, isn't it?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #142 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:32pm:
I got it off the wiki. The maps are straight from Wikipedia.


You got it off your own Wiki, eh? Cunning.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #143 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:31pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:28pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:32pm:
I got it off the wiki. The maps are straight from Wikipedia.


You got it off your own Wiki, eh? Cunning.


Do you have a wiki, Karnal? Does it reference everything to Cleopatra?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #144 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:32pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:46pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?

of course.  She has had such an influence on the culture that today's people want to be just like her.  There's even stories about how she lived her life, and the people try to lead by these examples.  Amazing, isn't it?


Sure is. A certain poster known as Falah used to name a certain FGM technique after her: the "pharaonic". Full clitorectomy.

Did you put it in the Wiki, FD?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #145 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:54pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:32pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:46pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?

of course.  She has had such an influence on the culture that today's people want to be just like her.  There's even stories about how she lived her life, and the people try to lead by these examples.  Amazing, isn't it?


Sure is. A certain poster known as Falah used to name a certain FGM technique after her: the "pharaonic". Full clitorectomy.

Did you put it in the Wiki, FD?

interesting, interesting. But why aren't the canadian yids doing it? Nor it seems the christians of Northern Africa. But why? They don't have the same admiration for Cleopatra?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #146 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:56pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:32pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:46pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?

of course.  She has had such an influence on the culture that today's people want to be just like her.  There's even stories about how she lived her life, and the people try to lead by these examples.  Amazing, isn't it?


Sure is. A certain poster known as Falah used to name a certain FGM technique after her: the "pharaonic". Full clitorectomy.

Did you put it in the Wiki, FD?

interesting, interesting. But why aren't the canadian yids doing it? Nor it seems the christians of Northern Africa. But why? They don't have the same admiration for Cleopatra?


Sorry, did you say Yids?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #147 - Aug 31st, 2017 at 11:01pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:56pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:54pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 10:32pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:46pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?

of course.  She has had such an influence on the culture that today's people want to be just like her.  There's even stories about how she lived her life, and the people try to lead by these examples.  Amazing, isn't it?


Sure is. A certain poster known as Falah used to name a certain FGM technique after her: the "pharaonic". Full clitorectomy.

Did you put it in the Wiki, FD?

interesting, interesting. But why aren't the canadian yids doing it? Nor it seems the christians of Northern Africa. But why? They don't have the same admiration for Cleopatra?


Sorry, did you say Yids?


The ones in Israel.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #148 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:40am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?


The pharohs were married off to their brothers or sisters as children. Muhammad banned incest. He allowed only cousins to be married, as did the Jews.

And as does the law in Australia.

I don't give a fig for defending Muhammed here. He's an ancient religious leader. Of course he had different standards in his time. Any bearded numptie who tries to live as Muhammed did is crazy.

Muslims are encouraged to apply the principles: praying, fasting, giving charity, obeying the law of the land you live in, and going to Mecca.

Marrying children, incest, circumcising your daughters, making your wife cover her face - none of these are a part of Islam. If Muslims in other countries do this, or if foreign imams encourage this, they're doing it off their own bat.

Ultimately, your criticisms are no more than shrill racist attacks on traditional cultures. No one here defends incest or child marriage or FGM, including our resident Muselman.

Better write me up for spineless apologism, FD. That'll show me.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #149 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm
 
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #150 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:04pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:54pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:37pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm:
Why?


You really didn't consider an alternative to "Its all Islam's fault" did you?

Now thats what I call "stupendous".

I'm more curious why you think religion can't cause a behaviour. Grin  Stupdenous, gandalf, stupendous.

So do tell us, if I can't say that a religion, which people rely on to make their 'moral' decisions on, and which clearly stipulates that incest is A-OK, is the cause, then what else is it?


Firstly, where did I say religion can't cause a behaviour? You made that up. Can you understand the difference between stating emphatically that religion can't cause a behaviour and suggesting it might not be religion that causes a behaviour?

Secondly, all religions as far as I know are A-OK with cousin marriage, as are almost all countries in terms of their actual laws - including all of western Europe. And that is what we are talking about when you refer to "incest". Islam specifically forbids marriage with other blood relatives - do other religions?

Thirdly, you are missing the point. The issue isn't "what else is it", its why do you immediately jump on the "its Islam's fault" bandwagon before even considering that it might be something else?
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #151 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:21pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:18pm:
That's what you did Gandalf. You were a bit mealy mouthed about it is all.


Is "mealy mouthed" your way of saying I never actually said it?

FD, are you actually able to  quote me "describing" them as "treacherous jews" as you claimed - in a way that doesn't involve projecting your own words on to me?

Quote:
Why can you still not answer these questions? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself?


The questions are your attempts to save face for the fact that I never once "described" the Banu Qurayza as "treacherous jews". It is the only way you can think of to justify your BS about me being racist against jews. The questions are completely non-sensical and irrelevant to anything I have actually said. So rather than play your pathetic game of "please gandalf be racist for me" - I prefer to focus on a) what I actually say, and b) the total incoherence of your attack on me. For example, what is the actual point of the questions (besides trying to put words into my mouth)? What do your questions actually mean? And the fact is, you don't even know yourself. Perhaps if you made some attempt to actually make sense of the questions, and give me a reason why they might possibly be relevant to anything - then I might be tempted to answer them.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #152 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm
 
Quote:
Secondly, all religions as far as I know are A-OK with cousin marriage


The problem with Islam is not that it is ambivalent to it. It is that Muhammad had sex with his relatives, and Muslims consider him to be the best example of all men. So to say that what he did is inherently wrong, immoral or stupid is difficult. Muhammad's sex life to day this presents a huge barrier to preventing incest.

Quote:
Thirdly, you are missing the point. The issue isn't "what else is it", its why do you immediately jump on the "its Islam's fault" bandwagon before even considering that it might be something else?


It's because Islam is demonstrably at fault. Unless you think people's fear of insulting the prophet is nothing to do with Islam?

Quote:
Is "mealy mouthed" your way of saying I never actually said it?

Would you like me to quote you Gandalf?

Quote:
FD, are you actually able to  quote me "describing" them as "treacherous jews" as you claimed - in a way that doesn't involve projecting your own words on to me?

You left out mindless collective Gandalf. Are you conceding that point? If so, why the difficulty answering the question?

Quote:
The questions are your attempts to save face for the fact that I never once "described" the Banu Qurayza as "treacherous jews". It is the only way you can think of to justify your BS about me being racist against jews.

Which claim would that be? Did I not in fact say the opposite?

Quote:
The questions are completely non-sensical and irrelevant to anything I have actually said.

All of them? Or just whether they were Jews?

Quote:
For example, what is the actual point of the questions (besides trying to put words into my mouth)? What do your questions actually mean? And the fact is, you don't even know yourself. Perhaps if you made some attempt to actually make sense of the questions, and give me a reason why they might possibly be relevant to anything - then I might be tempted to answer them.


Are you having difficulty understanding all of these questions Gandalf? Can you be more specific? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself? Did you understand the question when you asked it of me?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #153 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Would you like me to quote you Gandalf?


Yes I would FD, thats exactly what I asked. Please quote me "describing" them as "a mindless collective of treacherous jews".
Thanks.

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Which claim would that be? Did I not in fact say the opposite?


You are obviously confused by what you think you are saying. First you claim I'm not racist against jews - even though you still shove the words "treacherous jews" in my mouth - in the next breath you say jews are the target of my racism (done somehow by not even mentioning jews). Can you explain that for me FD? Putting aside the whole shoving words into my mouth for a moment - can you explain the difference between being racist against jews and jews being the target of my racism? Perhaps you can answer it by shoving more words into my mouth.

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Are you having difficulty understanding all of these questions Gandalf?


Indeed I am FD.

If you could kindly address my concerns that you missed just now, that would be great. Here they are again:

Quote:
what is the actual point of the questions (besides trying to put words into my mouth)? What do your questions actually mean? And the fact is, you don't even know yourself. Perhaps if you made some attempt to actually make sense of the questions, and give me a reason why they might possibly be relevant to anything - then I might be tempted to answer them.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #154 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:09pm
 
Quote:
You are obviously confused by what you think you are saying. First you claim I'm not racist against jews - even though you still shove the words "treacherous jews" in my mouth - in the next breath you say jews are the target of my racism (done somehow by not even mentioning jews). Can you explain that for me FD? Putting aside the whole shoving words into my mouth for a moment - can you explain the difference between being racist against jews and jews being the target of my racism? Perhaps you can answer it by shoving more words into my mouth.


If they were black you and you made racist remarks about them being black, you would be making racist remarks against people who are Jewish, but would not be referring to all Jews. Or if it helps, Arab Jews instead of black ones.

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:01pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Are you having difficulty understanding all of these questions Gandalf?


Indeed I am FD.


The last one is one that you asked me in this thread. Did it makes sense at the time that you asked it?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #155 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:09pm:
If they were black you and you made racist remarks about them being black, you would be making racist remarks against people who are Jewish, but would not be referring to all Jews. Or if it helps, Arab Jews instead of black ones.


Sorry FD, its not really helping much. I just can't get past the bit where you're claiming all this when I never once said anything about their "jewishness" - indeed never even mentioned that they are jews. Or are you saying that my racism was a kind of generic, non-specific racism that targeted people who incidentally happened to be jewish? If thats the case, it still doesn't explain why you need to keep asking me if they were jewish - as if that answer will prove something about my racism.

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:09pm:
The last one is one that you asked me in this thread. Did it makes sense at the time that you asked it?


None of it makes sense FD, thats the point I'm trying to make.

Is it really too much to ask why you are asking me these? Just have a go. Humour me. Convince me that there is some purpose to this besides shoving words into my mouth just so you can say I'm saying racist things.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #156 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:38pm
 
Oh, and don't forget to quote me "describing" them as a mindless collective of treacherous jews FD. You even asked if thats what I wanted - I said yes, but still no money. If you're having difficulty, I can walk you through the whole quoting process if you like.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #157 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:40pm
 
karnal Today at 9:40am
Quote:
Marrying children, incest, circumcising your daughters, making your wife cover her face - none of these are a part of Islam.


Well you can't get much lower than that, as the muslim said when he sat down to pee.

Marrying kids and incest got nothing to do with islam?

muhammad was a zealous practician of both. So what does islam say about muhammad?   

qur'an 33.21: Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

muhammad was touted as the best model for muslims to follow, so they marry children and perform incest because islam tells them to. (following muhammad)

circumcising your daughters got nothing to do with islam?

According to hadith muhammad said:

Abu al- Malih ibn `Usama's father relates that the Prophet said: "Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women." Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 5:75; Abu Dawud, Adab 167.

Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. Sunan Abu Dawud 41:5251

She replied: You have come across one well informed! The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When anyone sits amidst four parts (of the woman) and the circumcised parts touch each other a bath becomes obligatory. Sahih Muslim 3:684

Seems pretty clear that muhammad favoured and was well aware of female genital mutilation.

making your wife cover her face got nothing to do with islam?

qur'an 33.59: O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

It seems marrying children, incest, circumcising your daughters, making your wife cover her face,  absolutely 100% all are part and parcel of islam.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #158 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:22pm
 
Quote:
Sorry FD, its not really helping much. I just can't get past the bit where you're claiming all this when I never once said anything about their "jewishness" - indeed never even mentioned that they are jews.


I have been telling you from the very beginning that I was not accusing you of being racist against Jews in general. It's not my fault you only just realised. I can't get past the bit where you spent years fixated on that one point. Yet, here we are, still getting hung up on the fact that they are Jewish.

Quote:
Or are you saying that my racism was a kind of generic, non-specific racism that targeted people who incidentally happened to be jewish? If thats the case, it still doesn't explain why you need to keep asking me if they were jewish - as if that answer will prove something about my racism.


Because you keep arguing that it is the appearance of being racist that counts, and the fact that they are Jewish is, according to you, what makes you appear racist.

Quote:
None of it makes sense FD, thats the point I'm trying to make.


What I asked was, did the question make sense when you asked it?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Is it really too much to ask why you are asking me these?


Ask away. You have been dodging these questions for years. What is another deflection?

BTW, what is wrong with the previous explanation I gave?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #159 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:48pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:41pm:
Ah. So the Egyptians have sex with their relatives because they are following Cleopatra's example, not because they are following Muhammad's example?


The pharohs were married off to their brothers or sisters as children. Muhammad banned incest. He allowed only cousins to be married, as did the Jews.

And as does the law in Australia.

I don't give a fig for defending Muhammed here. He's an ancient religious leader. Of course he had different standards in his time. Any bearded numptie who tries to live as Muhammed did is crazy.

Muslims are encouraged to apply the principles: praying, fasting, giving charity, obeying the law of the land you live in, and going to Mecca.

Marrying children, incest, circumcising your daughters, making your wife cover her face - none of these are a part of Islam. If Muslims in other countries do this, or if foreign imams encourage this, they're doing it off their own bat.

Ultimately, your criticisms are no more than shrill racist attacks on traditional cultures. No one here defends incest or child marriage or FGM, including our resident Muselman.

Better write me up for spineless apologism, FD. That'll show me.


Great.   Now you just need to tell hundreds of millions of the muslim world they aren't muslim. Good luck with that.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #160 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:04pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:54pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:37pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm:
Why?


You really didn't consider an alternative to "Its all Islam's fault" did you?

Now thats what I call "stupendous".

I'm more curious why you think religion can't cause a behaviour. Grin  Stupdenous, gandalf, stupendous.

So do tell us, if I can't say that a religion, which people rely on to make their 'moral' decisions on, and which clearly stipulates that incest is A-OK, is the cause, then what else is it?


Firstly, where did I say religion can't cause a behaviour? You made that up. Can you understand the difference between stating emphatically that religion can't cause a behaviour and suggesting it might not be religion that causes a behaviour?

Secondly, all religions as far as I know are A-OK with cousin marriage, as are almost all countries in terms of their actual laws - including all of western Europe. And that is what we are talking about when you refer to "incest". Islam specifically forbids marriage with other blood relatives - do other religions?

Thirdly, you are missing the point. The issue isn't "what else is it", its why do you immediately jump on the "its Islam's fault" bandwagon before even considering that it might be something else?


Actually no, the point is what else is it. You need to stop trying to play the person, and instead play the issue, gandalf.  This constant, 'You think it's islam, you must be islamophobic' defense is so pathetic, and frankly is beneath a person who I think is highly more capable to put up a proper argument.  I jump on the 'Islam's fault' bandwagon because stats don't lie. Sure, other countries and religions allow cousin marrigaes, I don't dispute this and never have. I just think it's a pointless statement because we are talking about why it happens to be so prominent in Arabic countries. Perhaps, could it be, that given we know Islam drives many of the behaviours and cultures of people within the Arabic world, and given we know that many people in Arabic countries would consider whatever is taught by Islam to be morally correct, then they would subsequently believe marriage to cousins is ok? See, it may be legal in Western countries, and at some point Western Countries also had an aristocracy that went about marrying brothers and sisters. And yet, some how, it isn't prominent in Western countries, but in the Middle East it is literally classified as a problem.  And as you say, in BOTH it is legal? Yet only one likes to go about doing it.  Why Gandalf? Are families literally so large you can't do anything other than marry a cousin?  If it isn't the teaching of Islam then what is it?  In order to counter an argument you need to actually offer the counter. Not just sit there and shout above all other voices that I'm jumping on the blame islam bandwagon without having first considered the actual issue.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #161 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Because you keep arguing that it is the appearance of being racist that counts, and the fact that they are Jewish is, according to you, what makes you appear racist.


You're making up more crap about me FD. By the way, any progress on your quote of me "describing" the banu qurayza as "a mindless collective of treacherous jews"? Let me know if you're having trouble with the whole how to quote someone thing.

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:22pm:
What I asked was, did the question make sense when you asked it?


I know FD, and my answer was 'no'. It doesn't make sense when you ask it, it doesn't make sense when I ask it: "were they jewish" - have another think about the issue FD, and try and concentrate here: if I'm not being racist against jews specifically - which I think is your latest position - why do you keep wanting me to say if they are jewish? And in case you are confused - thats when you ask me "were they jewish" like some broken record every single post.

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:22pm:
Yet, here we are, still getting hung up on the fact that they are Jewish.


Oh I know FD. Glad you're sick of you asking that question every single time you post. Yet you still do it - and no one seems to know why - not even you.

freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:22pm:
BTW, what is wrong with the previous explanation I gave?


Please remind me.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #162 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:41pm
 
Quote:
You're making up more crap about me FD.


You will happily admit to being racist against Arabs. But you will go through all this moral contortionism to avoid answering a simple question like whether they are Jewish. And your reason for being incapable of answering is that I am trying to make you "appear" racist.

Quote:
I know FD, and my answer was 'no'. It doesn't make sense when you ask it, it doesn't make sense when I ask it: "were they jewish"


I didn't realise you had asked me that. Just in case you are still confused. My answer is yes, they were Jewish. See, not so hard is it?

You did ask me whether Muslims today are a mindless collective. I answered and asked you the same question. You are also afraid to answer that one.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
why do you keep wanting me to say if they are jewish?


Because you denied saying it in the past. Because you appear to think that not mentioning this fact means you avoid the charge of racism, as if racism only counts if it is anti-semitism. Because it demonstrates you hold the spin to be more important than the substance.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #163 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:44pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:55pm:
This constant, 'You think it's islam, you must be islamophobic'


fair dinkum alevine - is deliberately misrepresenting what I say some favourite pass time of yours? You seem to do it every time you quote me.

You may or may not be being islamophobic, but thats not the issue here, and its certainly not what I was thinking about. What I was thinking about, and what is the issue, is this scurge of jumping to baseless conclusions using faulty logic. Its rampant here, unfortunately.

Now as you say, "stats don't lie" - and thats precisely why you are wrong. What the stats show is that inbreeding is relatively higher in a large block of the world that incorporates the middle east, central asia, south Asia - as well as pretty much the entire African continent. If we are talking about religous makeup of these regions, Islam is only one of 3 major religions - the others being hinduism and christian/animist. Now we can go with your logic and say this is all down to religion - which would mean all 3 religions independently cause people to want to marry their cousins. And we presumably dismiss any other socio-cultural factors. Keeping in mind that we would be applying this logic despite the fact that none of those 3 religions give any doctrinal encouragement for the practice. Does that sound logical to you?

Another point about stats: other muslim areas, most notably SE Asia, including no less the largest muslim country in the world, have negligible levels of cousin marriage - about on a par with most of the west.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #164 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:49pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:44pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:55pm:
This constant, 'You think it's islam, you must be islamophobic'


fair dinkum alevine - is deliberately misrepresenting what I say some favourite pass time of yours? You seem to do it every time you quote me.

You may or may not be being islamophobic, but thats not the issue here, and its certainly not what I was thinking about. What I was thinking about, and what is the issue, is this scurge of jumping to baseless conclusions using faulty logic. Its rampant here, unfortunately.

Now as you say, "stats don't lie" - and thats precisely why you are wrong. What the stats show is that inbreeding is relatively higher in a large block of the world that incorporates the middle east, central asia, south Asia - as well as pretty much the entire African continent. If we are talking about religous makeup of these regions, Islam is only one of 3 major religions - the others being hinduism and christian/animist. Now we can go with your logic and say this is all down to religion - which would mean all 3 religions independently cause people to want to marry their cousins. And we presumably dismiss any other socio-cultural factors. Keeping in mind that we would be applying this logic despite the fact that none of those 3 religions give any doctrinal encouragement for the practice. Does that sound logical to you?

Another point about stats: other muslim areas, most notably SE Asia, including no less the largest muslim country in the world, have negligible levels of cousin marriage - about on a par with most of the west.


Gandalf do you deny the causative link between Islam and the difficulty in discouraging incest in Muslim countries?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islamic_Incest_Ratchet

...

...
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #165 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:49pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:41pm:
Because you denied saying it in the past.


Apparently you disagree. Now where were we with that? Oh thats right, you were going to quote me "describing" the banu qurayza as a mindless collective of treacherous jews. Remember? How are you going with that FD? You even asked if I wanted you to quote it - and my answer was a very clear "yes". Did you forget that FD? Do let me know if you're having trouble with the whole how to quote someone thing - and I'll try and help.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #166 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:53pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
You left out mindless collective Gandalf. Are you conceding that point? If so, why the difficulty answering the question?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #167 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:56pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:44pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:55pm:
This constant, 'You think it's islam, you must be islamophobic'


fair dinkum alevine - is deliberately misrepresenting what I say some favourite pass time of yours? You seem to do it every time you quote me.

You may or may not be being islamophobic, but thats not the issue here, and its certainly not what I was thinking about. What I was thinking about, and what is the issue, is this scurge of jumping to baseless conclusions using faulty logic. Its rampant here, unfortunately.

Now as you say, "stats don't lie" - and thats precisely why you are wrong. What the stats show is that inbreeding is relatively higher in a large block of the world that incorporates the middle east, central asia, south Asia - as well as pretty much the entire African continent. If we are talking about religous makeup of these regions, Islam is only one of 3 major religions - the others being hinduism and christian/animist. Now we can go with your logic and say this is all down to religion - which would mean all 3 religions independently cause people to want to marry their cousins. And we presumably dismiss any other socio-cultural factors. Keeping in mind that we would be applying this logic despite the fact that none of those 3 religions give any doctrinal encouragement for the practice. Does that sound logical to you?

Another point about stats: other muslim areas, most notably SE Asia, including no less the largest muslim country in the world, have negligible levels of cousin marriage - about on a par with most of the west.


what socio-cultural factors cause the Middle East and the Sub-Continent to have a much higher level of incestuous marriage? I mean that's all I've been asking you from day one. I just wish you'd elaborate!  I can tell you that from the map freediver presented just before to you, the one linkage I can see is the very large population of people who would base their behaviours on the teachings of Islam.  Even India, it would be hard to tell whether it is indeed Hinduism or Islam, but nonetheless I once again state I don't think Islam i sthe ONLY religion where incest is a problem. It's just the cause of the problem in the Arab world. Unless we start talking Cleopatra again?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #168 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:57pm
 
As that your quote of me saying mindless collective of treacherous jews FD? A quote of yours?

I think what you are trying to say here is that you were wrong to accuse me of calling them treacherous jews - yes?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #169 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
No Gandalf. You asked where we were with that. That's where we were.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #170 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:12pm
 
Not at all FD, what happened was that you made a BS claim about me, and you asked if I wanted you to quote me - I said yes - remember?

Here it is again:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Would you like me to quote you Gandalf?


polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:01pm:
Yes I would FD, thats exactly what I asked. Please quote me "describing" them as "a mindless collective of treacherous jews".
Thanks.


After that you ran away from it FD. Thats where we're "at".
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #171 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:14pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:12pm:
Not at all FD, what happened was that you made a BS claim about me, and you asked if I wanted you to quote me - I said yes - remember?

Here it is again:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Would you like me to quote you Gandalf?


polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:01pm:
Yes I would FD, thats exactly what I asked. Please quote me "describing" them as "a mindless collective of treacherous jews".
Thanks.


After that you ran away from it FD. Thats where we're "at".

gandalf, if it's such a BS claim why don't you just leave it as is?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #172 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:17pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:12pm:
Not at all FD, what happened was that you made a BS claim about me, and you asked if I wanted you to quote me - I said yes - remember?

Here it is again:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Would you like me to quote you Gandalf?


polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:01pm:
Yes I would FD, thats exactly what I asked. Please quote me "describing" them as "a mindless collective of treacherous jews".
Thanks.


After that you ran away from it FD. Thats where we're "at".


So you want me to quote you describing them as a mindless collective also? Is this because you deny doing so?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #173 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:21pm
 
Only because FD asked if I wanted him to quote me saying it.

I accepted his offer - but now he ducks and weaves. I wonder why he asked me in the first place.

For once I want FD to admit his years long BS racist charge against me is based entirely on him making up crap about me.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #174 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:25pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:12pm:
Not at all FD, what happened was that you made a BS claim about me, and you asked if I wanted you to quote me - I said yes - remember?

Here it is again:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Would you like me to quote you Gandalf?


polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:01pm:
Yes I would FD, thats exactly what I asked. Please quote me "describing" them as "a mindless collective of treacherous jews".
Thanks.


After that you ran away from it FD. Thats where we're "at".


So you want me to quote you describing them as a mindless collective also? Is this because you deny doing so?


You seem to be having difficulty with what BS claims you are making FD. Here it is again:

Quote:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


If you can't quote me like you offered, just say so FD - no need for the elaborate ducking and weaving act.

As for your follow up question - yes I absolutely deny calling them "a mindless collective of treacherous Jews" - as you claimed.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #175 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:26pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Only because FD asked if I wanted him to quote me saying it.

I accepted his offer - but now he ducks and weaves. I wonder why he asked me in the first place.

For once I want FD to admit his years long BS racist charge against me is based entirely on him making up crap about me.

Mate, who cares. Concentrate on telling us what socio-cultural factors in the Middle East cause people to marry their cousins.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #176 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:27pm
 
Do you deny calling them a mindless collective?

Can you explain why you suddenly cannot comprehend a single one of these questions -  not even the one you just asked me in this thread?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #177 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:30pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:56pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:44pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:55pm:
This constant, 'You think it's islam, you must be islamophobic'


fair dinkum alevine - is deliberately misrepresenting what I say some favourite pass time of yours? You seem to do it every time you quote me.

You may or may not be being islamophobic, but thats not the issue here, and its certainly not what I was thinking about. What I was thinking about, and what is the issue, is this scurge of jumping to baseless conclusions using faulty logic. Its rampant here, unfortunately.

Now as you say, "stats don't lie" - and thats precisely why you are wrong. What the stats show is that inbreeding is relatively higher in a large block of the world that incorporates the middle east, central asia, south Asia - as well as pretty much the entire African continent. If we are talking about religous makeup of these regions, Islam is only one of 3 major religions - the others being hinduism and christian/animist. Now we can go with your logic and say this is all down to religion - which would mean all 3 religions independently cause people to want to marry their cousins. And we presumably dismiss any other socio-cultural factors. Keeping in mind that we would be applying this logic despite the fact that none of those 3 religions give any doctrinal encouragement for the practice. Does that sound logical to you?

Another point about stats: other muslim areas, most notably SE Asia, including no less the largest muslim country in the world, have negligible levels of cousin marriage - about on a par with most of the west.


what socio-cultural factors cause the Middle East and the Sub-Continent to have a much higher level of incestuous marriage? I mean that's all I've been asking you from day one. I just wish you'd elaborate!  I can tell you that from the map freediver presented just before to you, the one linkage I can see is the very large population of people who would base their behaviours on the teachings of Islam.  Even India, it would be hard to tell whether it is indeed Hinduism or Islam, but nonetheless I once again state I don't think Islam i sthe ONLY religion where incest is a problem. It's just the cause of the problem in the Arab world. Unless we start talking Cleopatra again?


I never claimed to know what factors are at play, only that its faulty logic to baselessly assume its all because of Islam.

Does the fact that the substantial muslim populations in SE Asia don't have the problem raise any red flags for you?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #178 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:32pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:27pm:
Do you deny calling them a mindless collective?

Can you explain why you suddenly cannot comprehend a single one of these questions -  not even the one you just asked me in this thread?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?


Thanks FD, we'll conclude from this that you did indeed lie by accusing me of describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous jews.

Its just a shame you can't be man enough to admit it.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #179 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:30pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:56pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:44pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:55pm:
This constant, 'You think it's islam, you must be islamophobic'


fair dinkum alevine - is deliberately misrepresenting what I say some favourite pass time of yours? You seem to do it every time you quote me.

You may or may not be being islamophobic, but thats not the issue here, and its certainly not what I was thinking about. What I was thinking about, and what is the issue, is this scurge of jumping to baseless conclusions using faulty logic. Its rampant here, unfortunately.

Now as you say, "stats don't lie" - and thats precisely why you are wrong. What the stats show is that inbreeding is relatively higher in a large block of the world that incorporates the middle east, central asia, south Asia - as well as pretty much the entire African continent. If we are talking about religous makeup of these regions, Islam is only one of 3 major religions - the others being hinduism and christian/animist. Now we can go with your logic and say this is all down to religion - which would mean all 3 religions independently cause people to want to marry their cousins. And we presumably dismiss any other socio-cultural factors. Keeping in mind that we would be applying this logic despite the fact that none of those 3 religions give any doctrinal encouragement for the practice. Does that sound logical to you?

Another point about stats: other muslim areas, most notably SE Asia, including no less the largest muslim country in the world, have negligible levels of cousin marriage - about on a par with most of the west.


what socio-cultural factors cause the Middle East and the Sub-Continent to have a much higher level of incestuous marriage? I mean that's all I've been asking you from day one. I just wish you'd elaborate!  I can tell you that from the map freediver presented just before to you, the one linkage I can see is the very large population of people who would base their behaviours on the teachings of Islam.  Even India, it would be hard to tell whether it is indeed Hinduism or Islam, but nonetheless I once again state I don't think Islam i sthe ONLY religion where incest is a problem. It's just the cause of the problem in the Arab world. Unless we start talking Cleopatra again?


I never claimed to know what factors are at play, only that its faulty logic to baselessly assume its all because of Islam.

Does the fact that the substantial muslim populations in SE Asia not have the problem raise any red flags for you?

So you doin't know what factors are at play, but it definitely isn't religion.

Why?

And no, it doesn't. As we know, Islam can be interpreted in many ways. but the key point that it is Islam that drives behaviour doesn't change.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #180 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:32pm:
Do you deny calling them a mindless collective?


This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call backpeddling. Of the most mealy mouthed kind.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #181 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:32pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:27pm:
Do you deny calling them a mindless collective?

Can you explain why you suddenly cannot comprehend a single one of these questions -  not even the one you just asked me in this thread?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?


Thanks FD, we'll conclude from this that you did indeed lie by accusing me of describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous jews.

Its just a shame you can't be man enough to admit it.


If you are unwilling to deny it, why accuse me of lying?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:30pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:56pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:44pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 6:55pm:
This constant, 'You think it's islam, you must be islamophobic'


fair dinkum alevine - is deliberately misrepresenting what I say some favourite pass time of yours? You seem to do it every time you quote me.

You may or may not be being islamophobic, but thats not the issue here, and its certainly not what I was thinking about. What I was thinking about, and what is the issue, is this scurge of jumping to baseless conclusions using faulty logic. Its rampant here, unfortunately.

Now as you say, "stats don't lie" - and thats precisely why you are wrong. What the stats show is that inbreeding is relatively higher in a large block of the world that incorporates the middle east, central asia, south Asia - as well as pretty much the entire African continent. If we are talking about religous makeup of these regions, Islam is only one of 3 major religions - the others being hinduism and christian/animist. Now we can go with your logic and say this is all down to religion - which would mean all 3 religions independently cause people to want to marry their cousins. And we presumably dismiss any other socio-cultural factors. Keeping in mind that we would be applying this logic despite the fact that none of those 3 religions give any doctrinal encouragement for the practice. Does that sound logical to you?

Another point about stats: other muslim areas, most notably SE Asia, including no less the largest muslim country in the world, have negligible levels of cousin marriage - about on a par with most of the west.


what socio-cultural factors cause the Middle East and the Sub-Continent to have a much higher level of incestuous marriage? I mean that's all I've been asking you from day one. I just wish you'd elaborate!  I can tell you that from the map freediver presented just before to you, the one linkage I can see is the very large population of people who would base their behaviours on the teachings of Islam.  Even India, it would be hard to tell whether it is indeed Hinduism or Islam, but nonetheless I once again state I don't think Islam i sthe ONLY religion where incest is a problem. It's just the cause of the problem in the Arab world. Unless we start talking Cleopatra again?


I never claimed to know what factors are at play, only that its faulty logic to baselessly assume its all because of Islam.

Does the fact that the substantial muslim populations in SE Asia don't have the problem raise any red flags for you?


Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors? Or just turning it into some unfathomable mystery?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #182 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
If you are unwilling to deny it, why accuse me of lying?


You are lying because you accused me of calling them "a mindless collective of treacherous jews" - which I absolutely deny - because we both know its rubbish. Your pathetic attempts at backpeddling by pretending we're only talking about 50% of your BS claim aren't going to magically make that lie go away you know FD.

I must say I don't think I've ever come across someone who has so much difficulty understanding when they are lying.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #183 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #184 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:54pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.


Would you say the world is somewhere between black and white and an unfathomable mystery? Or is that getting too specific?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:48pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
If you are unwilling to deny it, why accuse me of lying?


You are lying because you accused me of calling them "a mindless collective of treacherous jews" - which I absolutely deny - because we both know its rubbish. Your pathetic attempts at backpeddling by pretending we're only talking about 50% of your BS claim aren't going to magically make that lie go away you know FD.

I must say I don't think I've ever come across someone who has so much difficulty understanding when they are lying.


So I'm lying because you didn't put all those terms into the one sentence like I did?

Can you explain why you suddenly cannot comprehend a single one of these questions -  not even the one you just asked me earlier in this thread?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #185 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.

I dunno, before you got quite red in the face telling me it isn't Islam.

But I'll take your retraction as a positive for your own personal growth.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #186 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:31pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:54pm:
So I'm lying because you didn't put all those terms into the one sentence like I did?


You're lying because you literally invented a phrase and accused me of using it. In case you're still having difficulty, here it is again:

Quote:
you justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


The fact that you duck and weave whenever I ask for the quote of me "describing" this - that you yourself offered - just proves it.

FD, if I accused you of saying something incriminating, but never provided an actual quote - despite multiple requests - would you think that was fine and dandy? what would you accuse me of being?


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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #187 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.

I dunno, before you got quite red in the face telling me it isn't Islam.

But I'll take your retraction as a positive for your own personal growth.


Perhaps if you could quote me telling you that it wasn't Islam, that should settle it.

Otherwise, I'll stick with you're misinterpreting me.

Do you agree that the substantial SE Asian muslim populations (including the largest muslim country on earth) having negligible cousin marriage/inbreeding rates puts a dent in your views on this matter?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #188 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:46pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.

I dunno, before you got quite red in the face telling me it isn't Islam.

But I'll take your retraction as a positive for your own personal growth.


Perhaps if you could quote me telling you that it wasn't Islam, that should settle it.

Otherwise, I'll stick with you're misinterpreting me.

Do you agree that the substantial SE Asian muslim populations (including the largest muslim country on earth) having negligible cousin marriage/inbreeding rates puts a dent in your views on this matter?


Quote:
Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.


I'm starting to understand why Freediver argues with you about your lack of memory about things you say. You seem to have a real problem either owning the words you say, or remembering what you say.

Anyway, like I've said, I'm okay with your retraction because I'm glad you've learnt something from it.

On the second matter, I've already explained that I have no problem with the discrepancy between Islamic regions, and I've already explained this to you so I'm not certain why you would raise it again rather than my reasoning? is this another of your short term memory lapses?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #189 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #190 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #191 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:27am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:25pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:12pm:
Not at all FD, what happened was that you made a BS claim about me, and you asked if I wanted you to quote me - I said yes - remember?

Here it is again:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Would you like me to quote you Gandalf?


polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:01pm:
Yes I would FD, thats exactly what I asked. Please quote me "describing" them as "a mindless collective of treacherous jews".
Thanks.


After that you ran away from it FD. Thats where we're "at".


So you want me to quote you describing them as a mindless collective also? Is this because you deny doing so?


You seem to be having difficulty with what BS claims you are making FD. Here it is again:

Quote:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


If you can't quote me like you offered, just say so FD - no need for the elaborate ducking and weaving act.

As for your follow up question - yes I absolutely deny calling them "a mindless collective of treacherous Jews" - as you claimed.


Hang on, FD called them a mindless collective - a hive mind, remember. No individuality whatsoever, so unfair. Treacherous Jews.

FD made all this up himself, we all know that. And do you know?

The only reason he's chasing you around claiming wacism is he's ever so desperate to justify his own.

But for some reason, unlike Sprint, unlike Herbie and Homo and Honky and dear old Sore End, FD can't bring himself to admit he's a card-carrying racist.

FD plays these games as a kind of homoerotic mastabatory orgy indulging his own fear of the tinted races.

At least Herbie can admit it. The best FD can do is chase you around asking you to justify his own quotes.

Were they Jewish?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Will you join me in a jolly group w@nk over my wacist fantasies?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #192 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #193 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:34am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.

I dunno, before you got quite red in the face telling me it isn't Islam.

But I'll take your retraction as a positive for your own personal growth.


Perhaps if you could quote me telling you that it wasn't Islam, that should settle it.

Otherwise, I'll stick with you're misinterpreting me.

Do you agree that the substantial SE Asian muslim populations (including the largest muslim country on earth) having negligible cousin marriage/inbreeding rates puts a dent in your views on this matter?


Quote:
Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.


I'm starting to understand why Freediver argues with you about your lack of memory about things you say. You seem to have a real problem either owning the words you say, or remembering what you say.

Anyway, like I've said, I'm okay with your retraction because I'm glad you've learnt something from it.

On the second matter, I've already explained that I have no problem with the discrepancy between Islamic regions, and I've already explained this to you so I'm not certain why you would raise it again rather than my reasoning? is this another of your short term memory lapses?


Alevine, G is smarter than you, nicer than you, more honest than you and has a far better memory. We all know that, including you. Stop being silly. If you want to win tit for tat arguments about nothing, go back to chasing poor old Cods around.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #194 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:53am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:34am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.

I dunno, before you got quite red in the face telling me it isn't Islam.

But I'll take your retraction as a positive for your own personal growth.


Perhaps if you could quote me telling you that it wasn't Islam, that should settle it.

Otherwise, I'll stick with you're misinterpreting me.

Do you agree that the substantial SE Asian muslim populations (including the largest muslim country on earth) having negligible cousin marriage/inbreeding rates puts a dent in your views on this matter?


Quote:
Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.


I'm starting to understand why Freediver argues with you about your lack of memory about things you say. You seem to have a real problem either owning the words you say, or remembering what you say.

Anyway, like I've said, I'm okay with your retraction because I'm glad you've learnt something from it.

On the second matter, I've already explained that I have no problem with the discrepancy between Islamic regions, and I've already explained this to you so I'm not certain why you would raise it again rather than my reasoning? is this another of your short term memory lapses?


Alevine, G is smarter than you, nicer than you, more honest than you and has a far better memory. We all know that, including you. Stop being silly. If you want to win tit for tat arguments about nothing, go back to chasing poor old Cods around.


I don't know gandalf personally, so I can't really tell whether he is nice than me or not. On these forums I think we each have our moments.  For being smarter, I dunno, i can definitely admit I have a tendency for not being rational some times, but for gandalf it seems to be quite often.  Definitely I'm a lot happier to admit when I have misspoken or was wrong in an argument - Gandalf seems to deflect, misquote and forget what he says.

But what I do know for a fact is that when it comes to being regressive and delusional on this forum, you and gweggy take take equal first place Smiley  You win a book on the history of Cleopatra's clitoris and how it has caused so much grief around the world for over 2000 years.  Congratulations!
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #195 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:54am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?

You seem to fail in your comprehension at this time of day in Oz, Karnal Sad  Once again, has Islam undergone reformation?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #196 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:02am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:54am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?

You seem to fail in your comprehension at this time of day in Oz, Karnal Sad  Once again, has Islam undergone reformation?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are they mindless?

Are they a collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #197 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:04am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:02am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:54am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?

You seem to fail in your comprehension at this time of day in Oz, Karnal Sad  Once again, has Islam undergone reformation?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are they mindless?

Are they a collective?

Has someone gotten on the sauce a bit tonight?

Do you feel the problems with incest in the Arabic world are because the Church hasn't banned incest?  Hmm, I still think it's cause of Cleopatra. You had much better rationale there.

Let me know a postal address for you so I can send you your prize.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #198 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:24am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:04am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:02am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:54am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?

You seem to fail in your comprehension at this time of day in Oz, Karnal Sad  Once again, has Islam undergone reformation?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are they mindless?

Are they a collective?

Has someone gotten on the sauce a bit tonight?

Do you feel the problems with incest in the Arabic world are because the Church hasn't banned incest?.


Excuse me, are you saying the church hasn't banned incest?

Get him, FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #199 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:00am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:24am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:04am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:02am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:54am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?

You seem to fail in your comprehension at this time of day in Oz, Karnal Sad  Once again, has Islam undergone reformation?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are they mindless?

Are they a collective?

Has someone gotten on the sauce a bit tonight?

Do you feel the problems with incest in the Arabic world are because the Church hasn't banned incest?.


Excuse me, are you saying the church hasn't banned incest?

Get him, FD.


Karnal, your address please, I can't have a book about cleopatras clitoris sitting on the desk, people may start to wonder.  Except muslims of course, apparently her clitoris is the reason that they like to partake in FGM.  At least that's what an unwise man once told me.  What do you think, karnal?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #200 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:57am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:31pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:54pm:
So I'm lying because you didn't put all those terms into the one sentence like I did?


You're lying because you literally invented a phrase and accused me of using it. In case you're still having difficulty, here it is again:

Quote:
you justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


The fact that you duck and weave whenever I ask for the quote of me "describing" this - that you yourself offered - just proves it.

FD, if I accused you of saying something incriminating, but never provided an actual quote - despite multiple requests - would you think that was fine and dandy? what would you accuse me of being?




Are you upset that I am accusing you of being seen as racist, rather than actually being racist?

Would it be fair to say that you described them variously as a mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews, using each term to justify Muhammad's genocide, typically in isolation until it finally dawned on you how untenable it is? And that you are now using the warrior excuse because it, at least, is not overtly racist?

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:35pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:05pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:50pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Are you denying that Islam is one of those factors?


I am not denying Islam may play a part. There is a difference you know. The world isn't black and white - even when we're talking about Islam.

I dunno, before you got quite red in the face telling me it isn't Islam.

But I'll take your retraction as a positive for your own personal growth.


Perhaps if you could quote me telling you that it wasn't Islam, that should settle it.

Otherwise, I'll stick with you're misinterpreting me.

Do you agree that the substantial SE Asian muslim populations (including the largest muslim country on earth) having negligible cousin marriage/inbreeding rates puts a dent in your views on this matter?


What views does it put a dent in? Is Alevine saying that converting to Islam causes people to have sex with their cousin? It is one of the problems inflicted on society by Islam that is entirely voluntary. Not being able to denounce incest does cause people to adopt it as standard practice. But it does allow it to become entrenched in society, particularly as women start being treated as chattels.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #201 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 10:07am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:18pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?



Wow so much obfuscation to excuse porkies.

FD - very simply, do you understand this is a flat out lie:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


?

Does that not bother you?


That's what you did Gandalf. You were a bit mealy mouthed about it is all.

Why can you still not answer these questions? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Europe

Early Medieval Europe continued the late Roman ban on cousin marriage; under the law of the Catholic Church, couples were forbidden to marry if they were within four degrees of consanguinity.[clarification needed][25] In the ninth century, the church raised the number of prohibited degrees to seven and changed the method by which they were calculated.[26] Eventually, the nobility became too interrelated to marry easily as the local pool of unrelated prospective spouses became smaller; increasingly, large payments to the church were required for exemptions ("dispensations"), or retrospective legitimizations of children, in what amounted to a 'protection racket' by the church.[27] In 1215, the Fourth Lateran Council reduced the number of prohibited degrees of consanguinity from seven to four.[28][29] The method of calculating prohibited degrees was changed also.[30] Instead of the former practice of counting up to the common ancestor then down to the proposed spouse, the new law computed consanguinity by counting back to the common ancestor.[30] In the Roman Catholic Church, unknowingly marrying a closely consanguineous blood relative was grounds for a declaration of nullity, but during the 11th and 12th centuries, dispensations were granted with increasing frequency due to the thousands of persons encompassed in the prohibition at seven degrees and the hardships this posed for finding potential spouses.[31] After 1215, the general rule was that while fourth cousins could marry without dispensation, the need for dispensations was reduced.[31]

These might be the stats Alevine was talking about:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islamic_Incest_Ratchet

http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Global_prevalence_of_consanguinity.png
http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.png

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #202 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:57am:
Would it be fair to say that you described them variously as a mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews


No. But you were going to quote me FD - do you remember that? What happened?

FD how would you react if I accused you of saying something you know is false, and then I ducked and weaved every time you ask me to quote you?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #203 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:30pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:46pm:
Quote:
Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.


I'm starting to understand why Freediver argues with you about your lack of memory about things you say. You seem to have a real problem either owning the words you say, or remembering what you say.

Anyway, like I've said, I'm okay with your retraction because I'm glad you've learnt something from it.

On the second matter, I've already explained that I have no problem with the discrepancy between Islamic regions, and I've already explained this to you so I'm not certain why you would raise it again rather than my reasoning? is this another of your short term memory lapses?


Well at least you quoted the most important part of my post - I'm clearly not getting through - still.

Clearly the important difference between saying "It isn't religion" and "it is wrong to assume its religion (baselessly)" went over your head.

I have no problem with the suggestion that it might be religion.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #204 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:42pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:00am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:24am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:04am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:02am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:54am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?

You seem to fail in your comprehension at this time of day in Oz, Karnal Sad  Once again, has Islam undergone reformation?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are they mindless?

Are they a collective?

Has someone gotten on the sauce a bit tonight?

Do you feel the problems with incest in the Arabic world are because the Church hasn't banned incest?.


Excuse me, are you saying the church hasn't banned incest?

Get him, FD.


Karnal, your address please, I can't have a book about cleopatras clitoris sitting on the desk, people may start to wonder.  Except muslims of course, apparently her clitoris is the reason that they like to partake in FGM.  At least that's what an unwise man once told me.  What do you think, karnal?


I do indeed. The Egyptian empire gave much of the Middle East what it has today. The Jewish "blood covenant" of circumcision for sons and slaves almost certainly came from Egypt too.

These practices are pre-Islamic. Unless you can provide a reason to blame Islam, you have to agree with me.

And do you know? Deep down, under all that bluster, you usually do.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #205 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:44pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:11pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:57am:
Would it be fair to say that you described them variously as a mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews


No. But you were going to quote me FD - do you remember that? What happened?

FD how would you react if I accused you of saying something you know is false, and then I ducked and weaved every time you ask me to quote you?


We're they Jewish?

We're they a collective?

We're they mindless?

We're they treacherous?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #206 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:55pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 10:07am:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:18pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:40am:
freediver wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Quote:
Oh deary me - thats just a flat out lie FD. Doesn't that bother you?

Lets start from the top again: do you concede that you are the only one who has ever made this about jews?

Still going on about the Jews eh? Why is it the Jews bit and not the mindless collective of traitors bit that you keep complaining about?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Why bother? You don't even need me to say it - you just lie about what I say anyway.

If you gave your own answer, it would make it a bit harder for me to 'lie', wouldn't it?



Wow so much obfuscation to excuse porkies.

FD - very simply, do you understand this is a flat out lie:

freediver wrote on Aug 29th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
You justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


?

Does that not bother you?


That's what you did Gandalf. You were a bit mealy mouthed about it is all.

Why can you still not answer these questions? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?

Quote:
Can you show one time in its history that the church has banned incest?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Europe

Early Medieval Europe continued the late Roman ban on cousin marriage; under the law of the Catholic Church, couples were forbidden to marry if they were within four degrees of consanguinity.[clarification needed][25] In the ninth century, the church raised the number of prohibited degrees to seven and changed the method by which they were calculated.[26] Eventually, the nobility became too interrelated to marry easily as the local pool of unrelated prospective spouses became smaller; increasingly, large payments to the church were required for exemptions ("dispensations"), or retrospective legitimizations of children, in what amounted to a 'protection racket' by the church.[27] In 1215, the Fourth Lateran Council reduced the number of prohibited degrees of consanguinity from seven to four.[28][29] The method of calculating prohibited degrees was changed also.[30] Instead of the former practice of counting up to the common ancestor then down to the proposed spouse, the new law computed consanguinity by counting back to the common ancestor.[30] In the Roman Catholic Church, unknowingly marrying a closely consanguineous blood relative was grounds for a declaration of nullity, but during the 11th and 12th centuries, dispensations were granted with increasing frequency due to the thousands of persons encompassed in the prohibition at seven degrees and the hardships this posed for finding potential spouses.[31] After 1215, the general rule was that while fourth cousins could marry without dispensation, the need for dispensations was reduced.[31]

These might be the stats Alevine was talking about:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islamic_Incest_Ratchet

http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Global_prevalence_of_consanguinity.png
http://www.ozpolitic.com/images/Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.png



Thanks, FD. An excellent rebuttal. The church DID refuse to marry commoners that were cousins.

But I'm curious. Given that they continued to marry cousins who were royalty, why did ordinary people not base their own actions on the practices of their leaders? This is your argument about Muslims.

People were not free to criticize the incest of their kings and queens. In most cases, they were encouraged to celebrate it. If what you say about Muhammad is true, why doesn't Europe still practice incest, based on the actions of their past leaders?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #207 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 8:17pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:11pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 9:57am:
Would it be fair to say that you described them variously as a mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews


No. But you were going to quote me FD - do you remember that? What happened?

FD how would you react if I accused you of saying something you know is false, and then I ducked and weaved every time you ask me to quote you?


Which bit do you know is false Gandalf? As far as I can tell you are only complaining about the implication that you said all those things at the same time rather than separately.

Quote:
I have no problem with the suggestion that it might be religion.


What about the suggestion that Islam is the cause?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #208 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 4:36pm
 
Quote:
If what you say about Muhammad is true, why doesn't Europe still practice incest, based on the actions of their past leaders?


Where is the behaviour of past kings and queens of Europe advocated as being the perfect example for European citizens to follow today?

Conversely it is a religious requirement to follow muhammad: qur'an 33.21: Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

If you hope to go to allah you have to follow muhammad.

You know this is actually true you need to follow the perversions of muhammad to join
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #209 - Sep 3rd, 2017 at 7:46pm
 
moses wrote on Sep 3rd, 2017 at 4:36pm:
Quote:
If what you say about Muhammad is true, why doesn't Europe still practice incest, based on the actions of their past leaders?


Where is the behaviour of past kings and queens of Europe advocated as being the perfect example for European citizens to follow today?

Conversely it is a religious requirement to follow muhammad: qur'an 33.21: Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.

If you hope to go to allah you have to follow muhammad.

You know this is actually true you need to follow the perversions of muhammad to join


Thanks, Moses.

Do you agree with this, FD?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #210 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 7:47am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 8:17pm:
Which bit do you know is false Gandalf?


The tapdancing act really has no limits does it FD?

This is a LIE FD - this very quote which will appears below. These very words:

Quote:
you justified Muhammad's genocide by describing them as a mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


You were going to quote me saying it. What happened with that FD? What possible reason could you have for not quoting me - even after asking me if I wanted you to - other than its not true?

How would you react if I accused you of saying something you know is false, and then I ducked and weaved every time you ask me to quote you?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #211 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:09pm
 
It would only be a lie if I claimed it was a direct quote Gandalf. I did not. I can quote you using each term separately, but I don't think you are denying doing that.

Am I correct that your only complaint is the suggestion you used all those terms at once? That is, you still think they are a mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews. You do not deny making these arguments separately in the past. You only deny putting them together in the one sentence? Does that pretty much sum it up Gandalf?

Is that why you still can not answer these questions? Don't you think it is a little hypocritical to ask me a question you are afraid to answer yourself?

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they treacherous?

Were they Jewish?

Do you believe Muslims today are a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #212 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:09pm:
I can quote you using each term separately


By all means, please do. I have a sneaking suspicion you'll just launch into another round of ducking and weaving though.

freediver wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:09pm:
Am I correct that your only complaint is the suggestion you used all those terms at once?


No FD. My complaint is your bald faced lie that I ever "described" the banu qurayza as a mindless collective of treacherous jews - all at once or otherwise. And you might add to that my request to provide a quote being met by spineless ducking and weaving.

freediver wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 2:09pm:
You do not deny making these arguments separately in the past.


Yes I do FD. Feel free to quote me. Or you can begin another round of ducking and weaving.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #213 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 4:30pm
 
FD's pretending he didn't put these words in your mouth in the first place.

Cunning, no?

I know it well, G. When I went along with the old boy's Paki line, I became a Paki for good. I'm stuck with it now. I've grown rather used to it.

You will too, G, believe me. You can't shake their porkies, you just have to live with it. I'm a Paki, and you're a racist, Jew-hating Muslim.

Remember, FD has his questions as back-up.

Were they mindless?

Were they a collective?

Were they Jewish?

Are you Abu?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #214 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 4:35pm
 
Look Karnal, it's not good enough to simply accept it. You have to be offended too.

You just don't have the right not to be, i'm afraid.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #215 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 4:47pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 4:35pm:
Look Karnal, it's not good enough to simply accept it. You have to be offended too.

You just don't have the right not to be, i'm afraid.


Good point.

G, don't just admit to your heinous racism, speak out against the prophet Moh.

That's the only way you'll shut FD up, you know.

Then we can all discus sustainable fishing again, yes?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #216 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 5:06pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 4:47pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 4:35pm:
Look Karnal, it's not good enough to simply accept it. You have to be offended too.

You just don't have the right not to be, i'm afraid.


Good point.

G, don't just admit to your heinous racism, speak out against the prophet Moh.

That's the only way you'll shut FD up, you know.

Then we can all discus sustainable fishing again, yes?



Exactly. I am currently learning from FD all about women's rights.

Apparently i have it all wrong.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #217 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 7:04pm
 
Here you go Gandalf, I bumped the thread so I didn't violate your rule about quoting embarrassing things that Gandalf has said in other threads.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1464336968

I found a few other threads on this topic if you would like more.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #218 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 7:29pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 7:04pm:
Here you go Gandalf, I bumped the thread so I didn't violate your rule about quoting embarrassing things that Gandalf has said in other threads.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1464336968

I found a few other threads on this topic if you would like more.


Really its ok FD - this thread is about gandalf's racism. I'll allow you to quote my racism. One would have thought it would be the first thing you'd do in such a thread actually.

But thanks for proving you can't.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #219 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:03pm
 
freediver wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 6:16pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 5:52pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 5:29pm:
FD calls them treacherous because they broke some pact with Muhammed.


Its scheming K - we call them scheming jews.


polite_gandalf wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 8:22pm:
freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 6:22pm:
I've seen Gandalf use the 'mindless collective' and the treacherous Jews argument


Quite right - you saw me using them without me ever mentioning them. Clever eh?


freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 9:30pm:
Every reference to "tribe" made by Gandalf below just happens to be a tribe of Jews.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 10:27am:
freediver wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 8:26am:
If you think these 800 people acted as some kind of mindless collective

Thats exactly what they were.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:38pm:
Also the treachery of the jews had nothing to do with them refusing to help the muslims.
Simple facts FD.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:11pm:
As I said, there was no real concept of individuality - your personality was literally defined by which tribe you belonged to. And the decisions that govern the tribe are very much decisions that are represented by all the individuals who make up the tribe. Thus there really is no question of collective guilt - no matter how abhorrent we find the term today.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 3:48pm:
Muhammad had been burnt before by granting another traitorous tribe free passage to leave the city - upon which they immediately started plotting against Medina and instigating hostilities.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 4:08pm:
The leaders conspired - yes.

The rest of them had the opportunity to disown their treachery. They declined. So tough titties- off with their heads.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 4:08pm:
What do you think the Banu Qurayza would have done to the muslims if their planned back-stabbing assault on Medina had succeeded?


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 2:05pm:
Like I keep saying, it is reasonable to accuse them of collective guilt, since at any time any individual had the opportunity to disassociate themselves from the decisions made on behalf of the tribe.


Gandalf is one of the good Muslims.


polite_gandalf wrote on May 24th, 2016 at 10:42am:
The phrase "treacherous jew argument" has obvious racist connotations. FD was obviously well aware of this when he put these words into my mouth.

I went to great lengths to point out their treachery had nothing to do with them being jews. FD deliberately set out to play the race card by using the term "treacherous jew", which he knows perfectly well is a notorious phrase heavily laden with racist overtones. But their treachery is a matter of simple historical fact - they conspired with the people who were attempting to annihilate Medina, in secret, in direct violation of the treaty they signed with Muhammad. But pointing that out is wacist innit.

The best FD can argue is that their treachery was justified, but treachery it was.



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #220 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
freediver wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 6:16pm:
freediver wrote on May 24th, 2016 at 1:25pm:
Quote:
The phrase "treacherous jew argument" has obvious racist connotations. FD was obviously well aware of this when he put these words into my mouth.


Yet it is what you said. Are you saying I have misrepresented what you posted?

Quote:
I went to great lengths to point out their treachery had nothing to do with them being jews.


What about chopping all their heads off. was that something to do with them being Jews?

Quote:
FD deliberately set out to play the race card by using the term "treacherous jew", which he knows perfectly well is a notorious phrase heavily laden with racist overtones.


Kind of makes it hard for you to argue that they were actually treacherous Jews, hey Gandalf? Doesn't stop you trying of course.

Quote:
But their treachery is a matter of simple historical fact - they conspired with the people who were attempting to annihilate Medina, in secret, in direct violation of the treaty they signed with Muhammad. But pointing that out is wacist innit.


You are the one getting hung up on this, not me. I simply pointed out the 'historical fact' that you used the treacherous jews and mindless collective argument to justify slaughtering them. Your insistence that they actually were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews does not make me wrong, even if it does make you look bad. Own it Gandalf. I did not force you to start squirming and backpedaling. I merely provided an accurate description of what you posted.

Simple historical fact - Muhammed got rid of all three large tribes of Jews that posed a political threat to his quest for absolute power in Medina. Despite Muhammed openly threatening and harassing Jews, Muslims go to unusual lengths to blame this all on the Jews. Only some of them display Gandalf's awareness of how backwards it makes them look, but he is still stuck with defending the same story.

Quote:
FD won't even acknowledge the labelling of every single male muslim in the world as a filthy, inbred, retarded psychopath who squats to wee, as racist


Could one argue that it is not racist because it is true? Or does it have to become 'historical fact' first?

Quote:
What she was quoted as saying-“This wasn’t a protest at all, this was just to share joy and peace,” she told BBC at the time, adding that she wanted “to show that things can be different. And that we can live together, not next to each other but with each other.”


Sounds like she's been attending the same spin class as Gandalf.


polite_gandalf wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 7:20am:
freediver wrote on May 24th, 2016 at 8:59pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 24th, 2016 at 7:38pm:
Just to confirm, you're standing by the claim that the entire male muslim population are inbred and low intellect isn't racist "because it is true"?

What do you reckon is more absurd - to claim its not racist, or that it could actually be true?

Its still not too late to claim the typo defense.

Or you may continue deflecting, its up to you.


OK Gandalf, I was just kidding. It is not true.

Now you tell me you were joking about the mindless collective of treacherous Jews.


Good for you FD. Is it racist? Minus points though for thinking what I said about arabian tribes (all tribes, not just jewish ones) 1400 years ago is even remotely comparable to the outrageously offensive racist slur moses made on the entire muslim population today.


freediver wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 12:10pm:
So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews, because it happened in the past? And it is not really racist because it is true?

When do you consider that Jews stopped being a mindless collective of traitors?


polite_gandalf wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 12:10pm:
So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews,


No that would indeed be racist.

But saying that one particular tribe broke a treaty and calling that 'treachery' is not racist propaganda. Amazing that you could confuse the two scenarios. And this is what you are attempting to claim is no different to calling the entire male muslim population inbred, intellectually retarded psychopaths. Please just reflect on that for a moment.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #221 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
freediver wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 6:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 12:10pm:
So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews,


No that would indeed be racist.

But saying that one particular tribe broke a treaty and calling that 'treachery' is not racist propaganda. Amazing that you could confuse the two scenarios. And this is what you are attempting to claim is no different to calling the entire male muslim population inbred, intellectually retarded psychopaths. Please just reflect on that for a moment.


freediver wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 6:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 12:10pm:
So it is OK to use racist propaganda to justify the slaughter of Jews,


No that would indeed be racist.

But saying that one particular tribe broke a treaty and calling that 'treachery' is not racist propaganda. Amazing that you could confuse the two scenarios. And this is what you are attempting to claim is no different to calling the entire male muslim population inbred, intellectually retarded psychopaths. Please just reflect on that for a moment.


What about insisting they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. Would that be racist?

And it wasn't just one tribe was it Gandalf? There were 3 large tribes of Jews that stood in the way of Muhammed's absolute power over Medina. All 3 of them just happened to collectively fall foul of the treaty, despite Muhammed's best efforts at diplomacy.

Were all 3 mindless collectives of treacherous Jews?

BTW, here is an example of the Islamic diplomacy that failed to garner support from the Jewish population for the nascent Islamic State that Gandalf insists they should have supported.

"O Jews, beware lest God bring upon you the vengeance that He brought upon Quraysh and become Muslims. You know that I am a prophet who has been sent - you will find that in your scriptures and God's covenant with you."

The Quraysh were another mindless collective of Jews that Muhammed had already gotten rid of. Gandalf would you expect Jews to support a leader like this?


polite_gandalf wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 7:45pm:
freediver wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 6:32pm:
What about insisting they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews. Would that be racist?


Yes it would FD.

I'm impressed, you've seem to have this racist definition thing down pat - that is when jews are concerned. Still not having much luck on non-jews though. But try and have a go, maybe you'll get the hang of it: for example, would you say that calling the entire male muslim population inbred, retarded and psychotic murderers racist?


polite_gandalf wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 10:50pm:
freediver wrote on May 25th, 2016 at 9:27pm:
Islam is not a race Gandalf. Can we settle on religious discrimination?


Ah, the good old trusty 'islam is not a race' chestnut.

And yet, you once admitted that Islamophobia could be racism - remember that? Could you give me an example of what racist Islamophobia might look like? I'm fascinated to know if calling the entire male muslim population disgusting inbred, retarded murdering psychopaths doesn't make the grade, what would?

Quote:
Do you think the 800 or so people slaughtered by Muhammed in one day were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews?


No. You really are determined to hang on to the 'treacherous jews' meme aren't you? Now matter how many times I stress that their being jewish had nothing to do with their treachery.


freediver wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 2:01pm:
Quote:
I think it is dumb to say that Muslims are not a race.


If I converted to Islam, would I join a different race?

Quote:
Ah, the good old trusty 'islam is not a race' chestnut.


It's a religion Gandalf. You can't reform a race, can you?

Quote:
And yet, you once admitted that Islamophobia could be racism - remember that?


It could be caused by racism. Your whole argument rests on the absurd leap from there to "they must therefor be the same thing". In fact you have made this argument explicitly - that if you wave your arms in the air and rant about racism and bigotry, they become the same thing.

Quote:
Could you give me an example of what racist Islamophobia might look like? I'm fascinated to know if calling the entire male muslim population disgusting inbred, retarded murdering psychopaths doesn't make the grade, what would?


This is actually sexism. The fact that he specifies all Muslim men means he is not talking about race. If he said the Arab ones were, that would be racist. Let me know if you would like me to repeat myself.

Quote:
No. You really are determined to hang on to the 'treacherous jews' meme aren't you? Now matter how many times I stress that their being jewish had nothing to do with their treachery.


Are you saying it is not racist because it is true?

If I asked you whether Pauline Hanson was a red headed woman, would you say no, on the grounds that he hair colour has nothing to do with her sex?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #222 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
freediver wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 6:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 4:26pm:
freediver wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 2:01pm:
The fact that he specifies all Muslim men means he is not talking about race.


Thats good to know, so now we can agree that saying 800 treacherous jewish men deserve to be slaughtered is not racist then. Because its sexist. FD logic.

Your problem is that you seem to be caught between arguing that its outrageously racist on the one hand, and a reasonable and logical thing to say - if coming from my perspective on the other.   

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 2:01pm:
Are you saying it is not racist because it is true?


At the risk of repeating myself - "treacherous jew" is racist. Its about the most racist thing you can think of. Which is why you are so desperate to put the phrase in my mouth.

freediver wrote on May 26th, 2016 at 2:01pm:
If I asked you whether Pauline Hanson was a red headed woman, would you say no, on the grounds that he hair colour has nothing to do with her sex?


Ah yes, thats such a great analogy to "treacherous jews". Good work FD.  Smiley



Gandalf, as far as I can tell you are arguing that the Jews slaughtered by Muhammed were in fact a mindless collective of treacherous, traiterous Jews. However, if someone throws your own words back at you, they suddenly acquire "obvious racist connotations". Instead of actually owning your position, you leak these phrases one by one, going to great lengths to make the argument that they were a mindless collective of treacherous Jews without using more than one of these descriptors in the same post. You are not only arguing that it is not racist because it is true, you are also trying to argue that because it is true, it is not even what you think.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #223 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:30pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:46pm:
Quote:
Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.


I'm starting to understand why Freediver argues with you about your lack of memory about things you say. You seem to have a real problem either owning the words you say, or remembering what you say.

Anyway, like I've said, I'm okay with your retraction because I'm glad you've learnt something from it.

On the second matter, I've already explained that I have no problem with the discrepancy between Islamic regions, and I've already explained this to you so I'm not certain why you would raise it again rather than my reasoning? is this another of your short term memory lapses?


Well at least you quoted the most important part of my post - I'm clearly not getting through - still.

Clearly the important difference between saying "It isn't religion" and "it is wrong to assume its religion (baselessly)" went over your head.

I have no problem with the suggestion that it might be religion.


Where exactly did I "baselessly" blame Islam?  Quote please Smiley

Like I said, I'm just happy you've turned around.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #224 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:08pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 7:42pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:00am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:24am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:04am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 3:02am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:54am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:28am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:05am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 1:55am:
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:23pm:
Are you saying that Muhammad's example is not a genuine barrier to modern politicians and medical workers trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are you saying that islam has undergone reformation?

Or perhaps it's because christians didn't really like cleopatra, after all?  What do you think, Karnal? 


Don't want to say, eh?

Neither does FD. He thinks the church banned cousin marriage.

You?

You seem to fail in your comprehension at this time of day in Oz, Karnal Sad  Once again, has Islam undergone reformation?


Are you saying the church banned incest?

Are they mindless?

Are they a collective?

Has someone gotten on the sauce a bit tonight?

Do you feel the problems with incest in the Arabic world are because the Church hasn't banned incest?.


Excuse me, are you saying the church hasn't banned incest?

Get him, FD.


Karnal, your address please, I can't have a book about cleopatras clitoris sitting on the desk, people may start to wonder.  Except muslims of course, apparently her clitoris is the reason that they like to partake in FGM.  At least that's what an unwise man once told me.  What do you think, karnal?


I do indeed. The Egyptian empire gave much of the Middle East what it has today. The Jewish "blood covenant" of circumcision for sons and slaves almost certainly came from Egypt too.

These practices are pre-Islamic. Unless you can provide a reason to blame Islam, you have to agree with me.

And do you know? Deep down, under all that bluster, you usually do.


I think someone must still have been recovering from the night before?

I guess cleopatra has such an influence it spread to Indonesia too?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #225 - Sep 4th, 2017 at 10:36pm
 
Uncanny. FD is now using examples of G not accusing the Jews of being a treacherous mindless collective as evidence that G called them a treacherous mindless collective - no individuality whatsoever, so unfair.

That could work.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #226 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 2:25pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:04pm:
Where exactly did I "baselessly" blame Islam?  Quote please


sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:11pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
This is just such a stupendous argument. Rape exists everywhere therefore let's not care about it type of argument.  Like I've said, it's what causes the behaviour that is of issue


Sorry alevine, my bad. I'll be sure to "care" more in the future - by blaming Islam.


for incest in Arabic countries? I'm glad you will, rather than excusing it by talking about animists.


sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:32am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

I'm sure the animists made them do it.  Or perhaps the Canadian Yids? Karnal?

Casting doubt would be offering an alternative explanation for the behaviour, not simply pointing out that other religions/beliefs may cause similar behaviour.  No one ever said that incest was solely an issue for islam.  Simply stupendous reasoning, gandalf. Sorry, but it really is.


Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.

Why?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #227 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:20pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 2:25pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:04pm:
Where exactly did I "baselessly" blame Islam?  Quote please


sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:11pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
This is just such a stupendous argument. Rape exists everywhere therefore let's not care about it type of argument.  Like I've said, it's what causes the behaviour that is of issue


Sorry alevine, my bad. I'll be sure to "care" more in the future - by blaming Islam.


for incest in Arabic countries? I'm glad you will, rather than excusing it by talking about animists.


sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:32am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

I'm sure the animists made them do it.  Or perhaps the Canadian Yids? Karnal?

Casting doubt would be offering an alternative explanation for the behaviour, not simply pointing out that other religions/beliefs may cause similar behaviour.  No one ever said that incest was solely an issue for islam.  Simply stupendous reasoning, gandalf. Sorry, but it really is.


Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.

Why?




Bravo gandalf! Now if you wouldn't mind also actually sharing the posts that show I have come to the conclusion without reason?  Was that the first post on the issue I made in this thread? Or did you, as usual, simply ignore all the reasoning and become all defensive?   And then blurt out an irrational statement, only to back down (which again, I congratulate you on)?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #228 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm
 
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #229 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread? Now, now, karnal - this to me sounds like you think very little of gandalf Sad  I think gandalf is quote intelligent and is capable of following a conversation. So, it surprises me when he chooses to play your stupendous tactics Wink  At least he hasn't resorted to changing people's quotes, yet.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #230 - Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:52pm
 
Gandalf am I still lying about you using the mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews argument to justify Muhammad's genocide?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #231 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:52pm:
Gandalf am I still lying about you using the mindless collective of treacherous warrior Jews argument to justify Muhammad's genocide?


Absolutely FD.

The giveaway was you resorting to an incomprehensible quote bomb that you know no one will bother reading, less understand. Usual tactic, in other words. Its your spectacular inability to actually quote me "describing" them as a "mindless collective of treacherous jews".
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #232 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:53pm
 
Does anyone else find this incomprehensible? Or just Gandalf?

Gandalf, is this like you asking me whether modern Muslims are a mindless collective, and pretending the question makes no sense when I ask it of you?

freediver wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 6:16pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 5:52pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 5:29pm:
FD calls them treacherous because they broke some pact with Muhammed.


Its scheming K - we call them scheming jews.


polite_gandalf wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 8:22pm:
freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 6:22pm:
I've seen Gandalf use the 'mindless collective' and the treacherous Jews argument


Quite right - you saw me using them without me ever mentioning them. Clever eh?


freediver wrote on May 23rd, 2016 at 9:30pm:
Every reference to "tribe" made by Gandalf below just happens to be a tribe of Jews.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 10:27am:
freediver wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 8:26am:
If you think these 800 people acted as some kind of mindless collective

Thats exactly what they were.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:38pm:
Also the treachery of the jews had nothing to do with them refusing to help the muslims.
Simple facts FD.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:11pm:
As I said, there was no real concept of individuality - your personality was literally defined by which tribe you belonged to. And the decisions that govern the tribe are very much decisions that are represented by all the individuals who make up the tribe. Thus there really is no question of collective guilt - no matter how abhorrent we find the term today.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 3:48pm:
Muhammad had been burnt before by granting another traitorous tribe free passage to leave the city - upon which they immediately started plotting against Medina and instigating hostilities.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 4:08pm:
The leaders conspired - yes.

The rest of them had the opportunity to disown their treachery. They declined. So tough titties- off with their heads.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 28th, 2015 at 4:08pm:
What do you think the Banu Qurayza would have done to the muslims if their planned back-stabbing assault on Medina had succeeded?


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 2:05pm:
Like I keep saying, it is reasonable to accuse them of collective guilt, since at any time any individual had the opportunity to disassociate themselves from the decisions made on behalf of the tribe.


Gandalf is one of the good Muslims.


polite_gandalf wrote on May 24th, 2016 at 10:42am:
The phrase "treacherous jew argument" has obvious racist connotations. FD was obviously well aware of this when he put these words into my mouth.

I went to great lengths to point out their treachery had nothing to do with them being jews. FD deliberately set out to play the race card by using the term "treacherous jew", which he knows perfectly well is a notorious phrase heavily laden with racist overtones. But their treachery is a matter of simple historical fact - they conspired with the people who were attempting to annihilate Medina, in secret, in direct violation of the treaty they signed with Muhammad. But pointing that out is wacist innit.

The best FD can argue is that their treachery was justified, but treachery it was.




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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #233 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:55pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:20pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 2:25pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 4th, 2017 at 9:04pm:
Where exactly did I "baselessly" blame Islam?  Quote please


sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:11pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 7:42pm:
This is just such a stupendous argument. Rape exists everywhere therefore let's not care about it type of argument.  Like I've said, it's what causes the behaviour that is of issue


Sorry alevine, my bad. I'll be sure to "care" more in the future - by blaming Islam.


for incest in Arabic countries? I'm glad you will, rather than excusing it by talking about animists.


sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 3:17pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:32am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Of course I couldn't possibly suggest that the existence of incest in areas neighbouring arab countries casts doubt on the "Islam made them do it" argument could I? That would be not caring, I guess.

I'm sure the animists made them do it.  Or perhaps the Canadian Yids? Karnal?

Casting doubt would be offering an alternative explanation for the behaviour, not simply pointing out that other religions/beliefs may cause similar behaviour.  No one ever said that incest was solely an issue for islam.  Simply stupendous reasoning, gandalf. Sorry, but it really is.


Sorry Alevine, I don't think I'm getting through.

To put it as plainly as I can - what I'm trying to say is that the "stupendous" argument is the one that assumes that religion - any religion - is to blame for incest.

Why?




Bravo gandalf! Now if you wouldn't mind also actually sharing the posts that show I have come to the conclusion without reason? 


Of course you have reason. I think its 'Muhammad made them do it' or something along those lines. Its about as sophisticated reasoning as saying "I blame Islam because I blame Islam".

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:20pm:
Was that the first post on the issue I made in this thread?


Of course not. Your first post was to point out how "stupendous" it was not to blame Islam - baselessly.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #234 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:56pm
 
Gandalf are you denying that Muhammad having sex with his relatives creates genuine difficulties for modern medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #235 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 2:16pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Gandalf are you denying that Muhammad having sex with his relatives creates genuine difficulties for modern medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


No, but your logic that "Muhammad did it, therefore I must" doesn't follow. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that the prevalence of cousin marriage is actually caused by people wanting to emulate what The Prophet did - as opposed to the Prophet's behaviour providing a potential roadblock to the discouragement of behaviour that is motivated by factors outside of Islam. And there is plenty of evidence that cousin marriage is more related to the highly tribalised nature of Arab society (ironically, something Muhammad tried to stamp out), and the desire to keep wealth "in family". And the fact that significant muslim societies outside the middle east  most notably SE Asia, have negligible cousin-marriage rates, and are not tribal like the ME and central Asia, supports this case even more.

Also, did you know that most if not all arab countries require screening for abnormal genes before anyone is allowed to marry a relative?

Medical professionals in these places are not silent on the matter.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #236 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 5:05pm
 
Quote:
No, but your logic that "Muhammad did it, therefore I must" doesn't follow.


Not sure what you are talking about Gandalf. Sounds like your own invention, not mine.

Quote:
I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that the prevalence of cousin marriage is actually caused by people wanting to emulate what The Prophet did - as opposed to the Prophet's behaviour providing a potential roadblock to the discouragement of behaviour that is motivated by factors outside of Islam.


What difference does it make? Either way there is a problem and Islam is the cause. All cultures have historical baggage that they had to let go of to become civilised. Just because Islam did not cause incest 3000 years ago does not mean it is not the cause today. Your argument is no less idiotic than saying the holocaust had nothing to do with Nazism because there was a history of anti-Semitism in Europe.

If Muslims find conventional political justifications to slaughter the infidel, and Islam merely sanctions the slaughter, does that mean it has nothing to do with Islam?

Quote:
Medical professionals in these places are not silent on the matter.


But they are hampered by the risks associated with insulting Muhammad by saying the wrong thing about incest, aren't they Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #237 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 7:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 5:05pm:
But they are hampered by the risks associated with insulting Muhammad by saying the wrong thing about incest, aren't they Gandalf?


And what do you think saying the "wrong thing" about incest would sound like FD? How about conducting mandatory genetic screening and pointing out you have increased risk of genetic abnormalities? Do you think perhaps that might be more practical and useful than standing there and saying "gahhh... Muhammad... incest... bad!"

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #238 - Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:22pm
 
Quote:
And what do you think saying the "wrong thing" about incest would sound like FD?


That it is stupid, immoral, backwards, inherently wrong etc. Take your pick.

Do you acknowledge that Muhammad's behaviour is an actual roadblock, or is 'potential roadblock' as close as you are willing to get to acknowledge that this problem exists?

Quote:
How about conducting mandatory genetic screening and pointing out you have increased risk of genetic abnormalities?


Gandalf, this is a demonstration of the absurd levels they have to go to, to address the issue while tiptoeing around the sensitivity of Muslims to criticism of Muhammad. The fact that it is mandatory should give you some indication of the enormity of the problem, and the failure of more direct means at discouraging the practice. It should tell you that they have to wait until they actually have the marriage with their relative lined up before they can even do anything. It has failure written all over it.

If these people had half a brain, they wouldn't be marrying their relatives in the first place. It would be stigmatised and mocked, not just because of the health implications. How many of the world's Muslims do you think can even afford genetic screening?

Quote:
Do you think perhaps that might be more practical and useful than standing there and saying "gahhh... Muhammad... incest... bad!"


Are you actually suggesting there is no problem if they cannot say incest is bad but have to have these absurd mandatory screening programs instead? What is so 'impractical' about telling Muslims that incest is bad? Is it the risk of getting your head chopped off in the name of Muhammad?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #239 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 2:41am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:22pm:
Quote:
And what do you think saying the "wrong thing" about incest would sound like FD?


That it is stupid, immoral, backwards, inherently wrong etc.


You should run the campaign here where cousin marriage is legal, FD. You could buy some billboard and late night TV space: "it is stupid, immoral, backwards, inherently wrong".

That should do the trick, no?

Have you ever thought of going into public health promotion? You could be the next Mary Whitehouse.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #240 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:11am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread?


Not at all, Alevine. G is smarter than you, more self aware than you, more cognitively and emotionally intelligent than you, more humble than you...

I won't go on. You'd do best to listen to G. Learn from him. It doesn't matter whether we're Muslims or Christians or atheists, we should always learn from the best. By all means criticise Islam or Christianity or any other belief system, but try to do so with some finesse - some creativity, some integrity.

Alas, unfortunately everyone here who plays the anti-Islam game falls into the trap of using porkies, rhetorical tricks, nastiness and just plain ignorance. I'm yet to see a quality post for the negative, and as you know, I've been here for quite a while.

I remember when you were an erstwhile whipper-snapper, chasing Cods around for a reaction. Now you snap at the heels of scholars like G, those who know a thing or two.

If I was you, I'd try to recover from the accident get my thinking skills back. Don't become a victim to your scrambled pre-frontal lobes. Learn from adversity, it can be your friend.

Be nice, be gentle, be open to receive. Go the way of hate, and whether you realise it now or not, you'll fail - a thousand times. So many people here do.

But go the way of love, and the world will say ah. Love is the only way to intelligence, love under will.

You have our faith and hope.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #241 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:48am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:22pm:
That it is stupid, immoral, backwards, inherently wrong etc. Take your pick.


Why? They are already assessing individual risk with mandatory genetic screening. Which do you think is more useful? What actual practical value does stigmatising people add? Or are you saying the screening should be abolished and replaced with stigmatising?

Quote:
Gandalf, this is a demonstration of the absurd levels they have to go to


Ah, genetic screening for proposed cousin marriage is absurd tiptoeing is it? Sounds like a sensible policy for any community - not just arabs, wouldn't you say?

freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 10:22pm:
How many of the world's Muslims do you think can even afford genetic screening?


Since its mandatory, I assume its a government service.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #242 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:16am
 
Quote:
Why? They are already assessing individual risk with mandatory genetic screening.


Who is Gandalf? Genetic screening is expensive and limited in it's effectiveness. Most Muslims are dirt poor.

Quote:
Which do you think is more useful? Or are you saying the screening should be abolished and replaced with stigmatising?


Why does it have to be one or the other Gandalf?

Quote:
What actual practical value does stigmatising people add?


Stopping incest for one.

Quote:
Ah, genetic screening for proposed cousin marriage is absurd tiptoeing is it?


Yes it is Gandalf, when it is combined with your insistence that they cannot say incest is bad.

Quote:
Sounds like a sensible policy for any community - not just arabs, wouldn't you say?


No Gandalf, compulsory genetic screening is a really bad idea. It sounds like another symptom of a far deeper social malaise.

Quote:
Since its mandatory, I assume its a government service.


Where is that facepalm gif when you need it? Who do you think pays for government services Gandalf? Allah?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #243 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 2:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:16am:
No Gandalf, compulsory genetic screening is a really bad idea. It sounds like another symptom of a far deeper social malaise.


It sounds like common sense to me. I would expect any and every country to adopt it for anyone wanting to marry their cousins. And if they don't, I would ask 'why not?'

freediver wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:16am:
Where is that facepalm gif when you need it? Who do you think pays for government services Gandalf? Allah?


You asked how dirt poor village hicks can afford it. That is your answer.

freediver wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:16am:
Why does it have to be one or the other Gandalf?


So you support genetic testing now?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #244 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:12pm
 
G, please tell FD that incest is between immediate family members, including siblings and parents. He doesn't seem to know much about the thing he's describing as immoral, backward, totally wrong, etc. Please help to educate him on this.

Also, can you ask him why he isn't campaigning to end cousin marriage in Australia? Does FD have a genuine interest in this area (like his support for women's rights), or is he only interested in criticizing immoral, backward, totally wrong Muslims?

Thanks, G.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #245 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:36pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:11am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread?


Not at all, Alevine. G is smarter than you, more self aware than you, more cognitively and emotionally intelligent than you, more humble than you...

I won't go on. You'd do best to listen to G. Learn from him. It doesn't matter whether we're Muslims or Christians or atheists, we should always learn from the best. By all means criticise Islam or Christianity or any other belief system, but try to do so with some finesse - some creativity, some integrity.

Alas, unfortunately everyone here who plays the anti-Islam game falls into the trap of using porkies, rhetorical tricks, nastiness and just plain ignorance. I'm yet to see a quality post for the negative, and as you know, I've been here for quite a while.

I remember when you were an erstwhile whipper-snapper, chasing Cods around for a reaction. Now you snap at the heels of scholars like G, those who know a thing or two.

If I was you, I'd try to recover from the accident get my thinking skills back. Don't become a victim to your scrambled pre-frontal lobes. Learn from adversity, it can be your friend.

Be nice, be gentle, be open to receive. Go the way of hate, and whether you realise it now or not, you'll fail - a thousand times. So many people here do.

But go the way of love, and the world will say ah. Love is the only way to intelligence, love under will.

You have our faith and hope.

That was beautiful karnal.  And yet utterly pointless, as always.

You didn't answer the question, my dear.  Do I need to spell out my reasoning each time to our resident "scholar"?  Or shall he retract his "baseless" statement?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #246 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:39pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 2:16pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Gandalf are you denying that Muhammad having sex with his relatives creates genuine difficulties for modern medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


No, but your logic that "Muhammad did it, therefore I must" doesn't follow. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that the prevalence of cousin marriage is actually caused by people wanting to emulate what The Prophet did - as opposed to the Prophet's behaviour providing a potential roadblock to the discouragement of behaviour that is motivated by factors outside of Islam. And there is plenty of evidence that cousin marriage is more related to the highly tribalised nature of Arab society (ironically, something Muhammad tried to stamp out), and the desire to keep wealth "in family". And the fact that significant muslim societies outside the middle east  most notably SE Asia, have negligible cousin-marriage rates, and are not tribal like the ME and central Asia, supports this case even more.

Also, did you know that most if not all arab countries require screening for abnormal genes before anyone is allowed to marry a relative?

Medical professionals in these places are not silent on the matter.

Hmm, and here I thought keeping wealth inside the family was a trait of all cultures.

I guess people in the Middle East are more crazy about it? 

Interestingly, it is the Jewish people who are known to keep wealth within the family.  Yet they aren't going around screwing cousins to do so.  I wonder why?  Perhaps secularism in Israel is the differentiator to the rest of the religious states?  Nah, it couldn't be, scholar.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #247 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:07pm
 
lol jews (especially orthodox ones) don't go around screwing their cousins?? Are you sure about that?  Grin
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #248 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm
 
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #249 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:18pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:11am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread?


Not at all, Alevine. G is smarter than you, more self aware than you, more cognitively and emotionally intelligent than you, more humble than you...

I won't go on. You'd do best to listen to G. Learn from him. It doesn't matter whether we're Muslims or Christians or atheists, we should always learn from the best. By all means criticise Islam or Christianity or any other belief system, but try to do so with some finesse - some creativity, some integrity.

Alas, unfortunately everyone here who plays the anti-Islam game falls into the trap of using porkies, rhetorical tricks, nastiness and just plain ignorance. I'm yet to see a quality post for the negative, and as you know, I've been here for quite a while.

I remember when you were an erstwhile whipper-snapper, chasing Cods around for a reaction. Now you snap at the heels of scholars like G, those who know a thing or two.

If I was you, I'd try to recover from the accident get my thinking skills back. Don't become a victim to your scrambled pre-frontal lobes. Learn from adversity, it can be your friend.

Be nice, be gentle, be open to receive. Go the way of hate, and whether you realise it now or not, you'll fail - a thousand times. So many people here do.

But go the way of love, and the world will say ah. Love is the only way to intelligence, love under will.

You have our faith and hope.

That was beautiful karnal.  And yet utterly pointless, as always.  


Yes, I see so. Unfortunately, I guess, that's the world we now live in. It's a world where brutal dogma, shallow polemics and petty tribal point-scoring are the priority. Learning reason, humility and judgement from the older and wiser is now frowned upon. Better we chant the slogans and incantations we're told.

I blame Islam.

I don't expect you to understand how sad this makes me, Alevine.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #250 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:22pm
 
There is still good in the world, Karnal.

And most of what is bad would be good if it understood itself.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #251 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:35pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:39pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 2:16pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Gandalf are you denying that Muhammad having sex with his relatives creates genuine difficulties for modern medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


No, but your logic that "Muhammad did it, therefore I must" doesn't follow. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that the prevalence of cousin marriage is actually caused by people wanting to emulate what The Prophet did - as opposed to the Prophet's behaviour providing a potential roadblock to the discouragement of behaviour that is motivated by factors outside of Islam. And there is plenty of evidence that cousin marriage is more related to the highly tribalised nature of Arab society (ironically, something Muhammad tried to stamp out), and the desire to keep wealth "in family". And the fact that significant muslim societies outside the middle east  most notably SE Asia, have negligible cousin-marriage rates, and are not tribal like the ME and central Asia, supports this case even more.

Also, did you know that most if not all arab countries require screening for abnormal genes before anyone is allowed to marry a relative?

Medical professionals in these places are not silent on the matter.

Hmm, and here I thought keeping wealth inside the family was a trait of all cultures.

I guess people in the Middle East are more crazy about it? 

Interestingly, it is the Jewish people who are known to keep wealth within the family.  Yet they aren't going around screwing cousins to do so.  I wonder why?  Perhaps secularism in Israel is the differentiator to the rest of the religious states? .


The Jewish Orthodox community is one of the most inbred in the world, but it's not just the Middle East.

The world's second highest population is up there too. India has one of the highest inbreeding rates in the world.

This is not just about keeping wealth within the family, it's about the role of women in traditional societies. In most cases, girls don't choose their partners, they are chosen for them. Women provide an important economic function: child and aged care - particularly for their in-laws. In traditional societies, marriage is a welfare issue. If women aren't married, they don't survive. They are looked down upon. They find it hard to get work. In Central Asia and the Middle East, women not being married is unthinkable.

In this context, it makes perfect sense to marry relatives. It's not about keeping wealth within the family, but all that unpaid women's labour. In many cases, relatives are married as an act of grace. If husbands can't be found or a family has no dowry money, relatives are sometimes the last resort.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #252 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:35pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:07pm:
lol jews (especially orthodox ones) don't go around screwing their cousins?? Are you sure about that?  Grin

what do the stats say comparing secular jews and non-secular jews?

mm, scholar? Wink
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #253 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:35pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:39pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 2:16pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 6th, 2017 at 1:56pm:
Gandalf are you denying that Muhammad having sex with his relatives creates genuine difficulties for modern medical professionals trying to discourage incest in Muslim countries?


No, but your logic that "Muhammad did it, therefore I must" doesn't follow. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that the prevalence of cousin marriage is actually caused by people wanting to emulate what The Prophet did - as opposed to the Prophet's behaviour providing a potential roadblock to the discouragement of behaviour that is motivated by factors outside of Islam. And there is plenty of evidence that cousin marriage is more related to the highly tribalised nature of Arab society (ironically, something Muhammad tried to stamp out), and the desire to keep wealth "in family". And the fact that significant muslim societies outside the middle east  most notably SE Asia, have negligible cousin-marriage rates, and are not tribal like the ME and central Asia, supports this case even more.

Also, did you know that most if not all arab countries require screening for abnormal genes before anyone is allowed to marry a relative?

Medical professionals in these places are not silent on the matter.

Hmm, and here I thought keeping wealth inside the family was a trait of all cultures.

I guess people in the Middle East are more crazy about it? 

Interestingly, it is the Jewish people who are known to keep wealth within the family.  Yet they aren't going around screwing cousins to do so.  I wonder why?  Perhaps secularism in Israel is the differentiator to the rest of the religious states? .


The Jewish Orthodox community is one of the most inbred in the world, but it's not just the Middle East.

The world's second highest population is up there too. India has one of the highest inbreeding rates in the world.

This is not just about keeping wealth within the family, it's about the role of women in traditional societies. Girls don't choose their partners, they are chosen for them. Women provide an important economic function: child and aged care - particularly for their in-laws. In traditional societies, marriage is a welfare issue. If women aren't married, they don't survive. They are looked down on. They find it hard to get work. In Central Asia and the Middle East, women not being married is unthinkable.

In this context, it makes perfect sense to marry relatives. It's not about keeping wealth within the family, but all that unpaid women's labour. In many cases, relatives are married as an act of grace. If husbands can't be found or a family has no dowry money, relatives are sometimes the last resort.


Yes - orthodox. 

And secular jews?

And if it's now not about wealth in the family but about womens rights then what is the number one reason that blocks women's rights in the Middle East?

I think you and scholar should align your explanations and reasons, Karnal Wink You guys seem to be all over the place.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #254 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:39pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:22pm:
There is still good in the world, Karnal.

And most of what is bad would be good if it understood itself.




I trust so, Mother. We must have faith.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #255 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:39pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:22pm:
There is still good in the world, Karnal.

And most of what is bad would be good if it understood itself.



One thing that regressives like you mothra fail to always understand is that being critical of islam is not being critical of individual muslims.

Something to think about.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #256 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:41pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:39pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:22pm:
There is still good in the world, Karnal.

And most of what is bad would be good if it understood itself.



One thing that regressives like you mothra fail to always understand is that being critical of islam is not being critical of individual muslims.

Something to think about.


Perhaps you should be more deliberate in both the words you use and the context in which you use them then, Alevine?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #257 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #258 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:43pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:41pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:39pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:22pm:
There is still good in the world, Karnal.

And most of what is bad would be good if it understood itself.



One thing that regressives like you mothra fail to always understand is that being critical of islam is not being critical of individual muslims.

Something to think about.


Perhaps you should be more deliberate in both the words you use and the context in which you use them then, Alevine?


show me examples where I am critical of INDIVIDUAL muslims that I have no prior knowledge of.  Just one example, mothra.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #259 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.



Alevine, i know you read what people type to you because you are quick to pick on isolated comments ... but i don't think you actually consider it.

At least, you display a staggering level of misunderstanding.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #260 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:18pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:11am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread?


Not at all, Alevine. G is smarter than you, more self aware than you, more cognitively and emotionally intelligent than you, more humble than you...

I won't go on. You'd do best to listen to G. Learn from him. It doesn't matter whether we're Muslims or Christians or atheists, we should always learn from the best. By all means criticise Islam or Christianity or any other belief system, but try to do so with some finesse - some creativity, some integrity.

Alas, unfortunately everyone here who plays the anti-Islam game falls into the trap of using porkies, rhetorical tricks, nastiness and just plain ignorance. I'm yet to see a quality post for the negative, and as you know, I've been here for quite a while.

I remember when you were an erstwhile whipper-snapper, chasing Cods around for a reaction. Now you snap at the heels of scholars like G, those who know a thing or two.

If I was you, I'd try to recover from the accident get my thinking skills back. Don't become a victim to your scrambled pre-frontal lobes. Learn from adversity, it can be your friend.

Be nice, be gentle, be open to receive. Go the way of hate, and whether you realise it now or not, you'll fail - a thousand times. So many people here do.

But go the way of love, and the world will say ah. Love is the only way to intelligence, love under will.

You have our faith and hope.

That was beautiful karnal.  And yet utterly pointless, as always.  


Yes, I see so. Unfortunately, I guess, that's the world we now live in. It's a world where brutal dogma, shallow polemics and petty tribal point-scoring are the priority. Learning reason, humility and judgement from the older and wiser is now frowned upon. Better we chant the slogans and incantations we're told.

I blame Islam.

I don't expect you to understand how sad this makes me, Alevine.

Actually given the rate of progression in the modern world, any knowledge gathering from the 'older' is in many cases quite pointless.

but aside from this, we are drifting from the crux of the issue: was scholar right in suggesting my opinion is baseless simply because in ONE reply I failed to yet again restate why I have the opinion, despite doing this in numerous other thread postings?  Do you feel scholar overstepped slightly?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #261 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:51pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:43pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:41pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:39pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:22pm:
There is still good in the world, Karnal.

And most of what is bad would be good if it understood itself.



One thing that regressives like you mothra fail to always understand is that being critical of islam is not being critical of individual muslims.

Something to think about.


Perhaps you should be more deliberate in both the words you use and the context in which you use them then, Alevine?


show me examples where I am critical of INDIVIDUAL muslims that I have no prior knowledge of.  Just one example, mothra.


Absolutely every time you criticise Iwslam or use the generic "Muslims" to make your point.

I've asked a few this on here .. let's see if you get it:

Do you mind being referred to as a Nazi? You are white, yes? And have rather committed ideas about people who are different?

So, because all Nazis are white and have committed views about people who are different, you must naturally associate with them, yes?

Just as the 1.6 billion Muslims all somehow end up in the same category  .. or at least swept up when people such as yourself go on about Islam and Muslims as you do ... despite Gandalf demonstrating the contrary each and every day excellently.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #262 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.



Alevine, i know you read what people type to you because you are quick to pick on isolated comments ... but i don't think you actually consider it.

At least, you display a staggering level of misunderstanding.

which isolated comments? What misunderstanding? Clarify, mothra, please.

My argument is simple:  Religious dogma drives behaviour and drives understanding on moral issues. One such behaviour and moral question is marriage and sex amongst family members. I never said it was JUSt a muslim issue, I have consistently said it was an issue across many religions. But I'm simply saying that in this particular region of the world, based on the stats I'd say islam is a prime factor.  Especially when we consider the difference in behaviour amongst secular and non-secular people, and it just so happens, unfortunately, that in Islam there are less secular people than there are conservatives or even moderates.

Karnal confirms my thinking based on telling me about orthodox jews.  If you look at stats, somehow secular jews have a smaller rate. Are we to suggest that this is only the case when it comes to the Jewish faith? And somehow Islam is different?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #263 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:18pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:11am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread?


Not at all, Alevine. G is smarter than you, more self aware than you, more cognitively and emotionally intelligent than you, more humble than you...

I won't go on. You'd do best to listen to G. Learn from him. It doesn't matter whether we're Muslims or Christians or atheists, we should always learn from the best. By all means criticise Islam or Christianity or any other belief system, but try to do so with some finesse - some creativity, some integrity.

Alas, unfortunately everyone here who plays the anti-Islam game falls into the trap of using porkies, rhetorical tricks, nastiness and just plain ignorance. I'm yet to see a quality post for the negative, and as you know, I've been here for quite a while.

I remember when you were an erstwhile whipper-snapper, chasing Cods around for a reaction. Now you snap at the heels of scholars like G, those who know a thing or two.

If I was you, I'd try to recover from the accident get my thinking skills back. Don't become a victim to your scrambled pre-frontal lobes. Learn from adversity, it can be your friend.

Be nice, be gentle, be open to receive. Go the way of hate, and whether you realise it now or not, you'll fail - a thousand times. So many people here do.

But go the way of love, and the world will say ah. Love is the only way to intelligence, love under will.

You have our faith and hope.

That was beautiful karnal.  And yet utterly pointless, as always.  


Yes, I see so. Unfortunately, I guess, that's the world we now live in. It's a world where brutal dogma, shallow polemics and petty tribal point-scoring are the priority. Learning reason, humility and judgement from the older and wiser is now frowned upon. Better we chant the slogans and incantations we're told.

I blame Islam.

I don't expect you to understand how sad this makes me, Alevine.

Actually given the rate of progression in the modern world, any knowledge gathering from the 'older' is in many cases quite pointless.



Surely you jest?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #264 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:55pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.



Alevine, i know you read what people type to you because you are quick to pick on isolated comments ... but i don't think you actually consider it.

At least, you display a staggering level of misunderstanding.

which isolated comments? What misunderstanding? Clarify, mothra, please.

My argument is simple:  Religious dogma drives behaviour and drives understanding on moral issues. One such behaviour and moral question is marriage and sex amongst family members. I never said it was JUSt a muslim issue, I have consistently said it was an issue across many religions. But I'm simply saying that in this particular region of the world, based on the stats I'd say islam is a prime factor.  Especially when we consider the difference in behaviour amongst secular and non-secular people, and it just so happens, unfortunately, that in Islam there are less secular people than there are conservatives or even moderates.

Karnal confirms my thinking based on telling me about orthodox jews.  If you look at stats, somehow secular jews have a smaller rate. Are we to suggest that this is only the case when it comes to the Jewish faith? And somehow Islam is different? 



No Alevine. There is no religion that promotes cousin marriage. There are cultural traditions that promote cousin marriage however.

I believe this has been pointed out to you already?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #265 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:56pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:51pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:43pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:41pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:39pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:22pm:
There is still good in the world, Karnal.

And most of what is bad would be good if it understood itself.



One thing that regressives like you mothra fail to always understand is that being critical of islam is not being critical of individual muslims.

Something to think about.


Perhaps you should be more deliberate in both the words you use and the context in which you use them then, Alevine?


show me examples where I am critical of INDIVIDUAL muslims that I have no prior knowledge of.  Just one example, mothra.


Absolutely every time you criticise Iwslam or use the generic "Muslims" to make your point.

I've asked a few this on here .. let's see if you get it:

Do you mind being referred to as a Nazi? You are white, yes? And have rather committed ideas about people who are different?

So, because all Nazis are white and have committed views about people who are different, you must naturally associate with them, yes?

Just as the 1.6 billion Muslims all somehow end up in the same category  .. or at least swept up when people such as yourself go on about Islam and Muslims as you do ... despite Gandalf demonstrating the contrary each and every day excellently.




well yes, followers of Islam tend to be Muslims. What else should I say?

And your example makes no sense I'm afraid.  IF we are talking about an ideology/belief that is common amongst Nazis, how else should we talk about this belief, and the usage of the word, Nazis? 

Saying the word 'Muslims' does not in any way criticise an INDIVIDUAL muslim. Why would I criticise an INDIVIDUAL muslim if I do not know their INDIVIDUAL opinion? For instance ,I have said many times I actually admire gandalf's attempts at interpreting Islam.  It's definitely less nasty than the more commonly practised legitimate intepretations that have spread across the the Islamic world.  But I know gandalf's interpretations, so when I'm critical of Islam I'm not critical of gandalf's individual stance of Islam. Does that make sense, mothra? This is the thing regressives don't seem to comprehend. I'm hoping you can.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #266 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:56pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:55pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.



Alevine, i know you read what people type to you because you are quick to pick on isolated comments ... but i don't think you actually consider it.

At least, you display a staggering level of misunderstanding.

which isolated comments? What misunderstanding? Clarify, mothra, please.

My argument is simple:  Religious dogma drives behaviour and drives understanding on moral issues. One such behaviour and moral question is marriage and sex amongst family members. I never said it was JUSt a muslim issue, I have consistently said it was an issue across many religions. But I'm simply saying that in this particular region of the world, based on the stats I'd say islam is a prime factor.  Especially when we consider the difference in behaviour amongst secular and non-secular people, and it just so happens, unfortunately, that in Islam there are less secular people than there are conservatives or even moderates.

Karnal confirms my thinking based on telling me about orthodox jews.  If you look at stats, somehow secular jews have a smaller rate. Are we to suggest that this is only the case when it comes to the Jewish faith? And somehow Islam is different? 



No Alevine. There is no religion that promotes cousin marriage. There are cultural traditions that promote cousin marriage however.

I believe this has been pointed out to you already?


so the difference between secular jews and orthodox jews is... ?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #267 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm
 
Think harder, Alevine.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #268 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:18pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:11am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread?


Not at all, Alevine. G is smarter than you, more self aware than you, more cognitively and emotionally intelligent than you, more humble than you...

I won't go on. You'd do best to listen to G. Learn from him. It doesn't matter whether we're Muslims or Christians or atheists, we should always learn from the best. By all means criticise Islam or Christianity or any other belief system, but try to do so with some finesse - some creativity, some integrity.

Alas, unfortunately everyone here who plays the anti-Islam game falls into the trap of using porkies, rhetorical tricks, nastiness and just plain ignorance. I'm yet to see a quality post for the negative, and as you know, I've been here for quite a while.

I remember when you were an erstwhile whipper-snapper, chasing Cods around for a reaction. Now you snap at the heels of scholars like G, those who know a thing or two.

If I was you, I'd try to recover from the accident get my thinking skills back. Don't become a victim to your scrambled pre-frontal lobes. Learn from adversity, it can be your friend.

Be nice, be gentle, be open to receive. Go the way of hate, and whether you realise it now or not, you'll fail - a thousand times. So many people here do.

But go the way of love, and the world will say ah. Love is the only way to intelligence, love under will.

You have our faith and hope.

That was beautiful karnal.  And yet utterly pointless, as always.  


Yes, I see so. Unfortunately, I guess, that's the world we now live in. It's a world where brutal dogma, shallow polemics and petty tribal point-scoring are the priority. Learning reason, humility and judgement from the older and wiser is now frowned upon. Better we chant the slogans and incantations we're told.

I blame Islam.

I don't expect you to understand how sad this makes me, Alevine.

Actually given the rate of progression in the modern world, any knowledge gathering from the 'older' is in many cases quite pointless.



Surely you jest?


Not at all.  Unfortunately it is so.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #269 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:58pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:18pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 5:11am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 5th, 2017 at 5:25pm:
Yes, G, don't just provide a quote. Provide a trajectory of Alevine's reasoning and how he came to his current state of mind.

Show us the cat scans.

Do I need to in every quote restate my reasoning, in order to ensure gandalf follows? Is he so dumb that he can't follow a conversation in a thread?


Not at all, Alevine. G is smarter than you, more self aware than you, more cognitively and emotionally intelligent than you, more humble than you...

I won't go on. You'd do best to listen to G. Learn from him. It doesn't matter whether we're Muslims or Christians or atheists, we should always learn from the best. By all means criticise Islam or Christianity or any other belief system, but try to do so with some finesse - some creativity, some integrity.

Alas, unfortunately everyone here who plays the anti-Islam game falls into the trap of using porkies, rhetorical tricks, nastiness and just plain ignorance. I'm yet to see a quality post for the negative, and as you know, I've been here for quite a while.

I remember when you were an erstwhile whipper-snapper, chasing Cods around for a reaction. Now you snap at the heels of scholars like G, those who know a thing or two.

If I was you, I'd try to recover from the accident get my thinking skills back. Don't become a victim to your scrambled pre-frontal lobes. Learn from adversity, it can be your friend.

Be nice, be gentle, be open to receive. Go the way of hate, and whether you realise it now or not, you'll fail - a thousand times. So many people here do.

But go the way of love, and the world will say ah. Love is the only way to intelligence, love under will.

You have our faith and hope.

That was beautiful karnal.  And yet utterly pointless, as always.  


Yes, I see so. Unfortunately, I guess, that's the world we now live in. It's a world where brutal dogma, shallow polemics and petty tribal point-scoring are the priority. Learning reason, humility and judgement from the older and wiser is now frowned upon. Better we chant the slogans and incantations we're told.

I blame Islam.

I don't expect you to understand how sad this makes me, Alevine.

Actually given the rate of progression in the modern world, any knowledge gathering from the 'older' is in many cases quite pointless.



Surely you jest?


Not at all.  Unfortunately it is so.


Bollocks.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #270 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
Think harder, Alevine.

mothra, I would appreciate a more thought out response. Otherwise this type of discussion is simply pointless.  You sound like gweggy.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #271 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.


Not at all. Indian and Jewish Orthodox communities are economic systems.

Perhaps the biggest change to our own society was the inclusion of women in the labour market. This took them out of unpaid labour and onto wages. This had massive consequences, for both women's autonomy and male employment. It impacted on our own shift to a service econony. The structural unemployment of the 80s and 90s was not just about the loss of manufacturing, but the inclusion of women in the labour market.

The debate around this was constructed carefully,  but there was a lot of political and social opposition to this shift - from both the church and disgruntled men.

The Middle East and Central Asia has not made this transition. For them, there was no sexual revolution at all. Sure, it's different in the cities and amongst the growing middle class, but in the rural heartland of countries like India, life goes on as it has for centuries.

FD's inbreeding map doesn't capture this. If its data is true at all, it just describes national averages. This is probably an accurate reflection of a very traditional tribal country like Saudi Arabia, but not of a heterogenous country like Egypt, for example, or India.

Blaming Islam for the preservation of traditional economic functions is as shallow as blaming women's lib for our own economic shift. The expression of religion  - and women's movements - are a reflection of economic change, not the cause.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #272 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:04pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
Think harder, Alevine.

mothra, I would appreciate a more thought out response. Otherwise this type of discussion is simply pointless.  You sound like gweggy.


Focus, Alevine.

If you are going to refer generically to "Muslims" when you are being discriminatory .. you are sweeping all 1.6 billion of them up in it. You are insulting all 1.6 billion of them.

So it follows that you cannot reasonably object to being called a Nazi. As they are white folk and you are a white folk.

Why are you exempt from generalisations or association with the worst case examples of your group, Alevine?

Are you a rapist because you're a male?

A Nazi rapist?

Have i offended you?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #273 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:05pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:56pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:55pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.



Alevine, i know you read what people type to you because you are quick to pick on isolated comments ... but i don't think you actually consider it.

At least, you display a staggering level of misunderstanding.

which isolated comments? What misunderstanding? Clarify, mothra, please.

My argument is simple:  Religious dogma drives behaviour and drives understanding on moral issues. One such behaviour and moral question is marriage and sex amongst family members. I never said it was JUSt a muslim issue, I have consistently said it was an issue across many religions. But I'm simply saying that in this particular region of the world, based on the stats I'd say islam is a prime factor.  Especially when we consider the difference in behaviour amongst secular and non-secular people, and it just so happens, unfortunately, that in Islam there are less secular people than there are conservatives or even moderates.

Karnal confirms my thinking based on telling me about orthodox jews.  If you look at stats, somehow secular jews have a smaller rate. Are we to suggest that this is only the case when it comes to the Jewish faith? And somehow Islam is different? 



No Alevine. There is no religion that promotes cousin marriage. There are cultural traditions that promote cousin marriage however.

I believe this has been pointed out to you already?


so the difference between secular jews and orthodox jews is... ?


One is religious. The other (you can say this) identifies itself as a race.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #274 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:36pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.


Not at all. Indian and Jewish Orthodox communities are economic systems.

Perhaps the biggest change to our own society was the inclusion of women in the labour market. This took them out of unpaid labour and onto wages. This had massive consequences, for both women's autonomy and male employment. It impacted on our own shift to a service econony. The structural unemployment of the 80s and 90s was not just about the loss of manufacturing, but the inclusion of women in the labour market.

The debate around this was constructed carefully,  but there was a lot of political and social opposition to this shift - from both the church and disgruntled men.

The Middle East and Central Asia has not made this transition. For them, there was no sexual revolution at all. Sure, it's different in the cities and amongst the growing middle class, but in the rural heartland of countries like India, life goes on as it has for centuries.

FD's inbreeding map doesn't capture this. If its data is true at all, it just describes national averages. This is probably an accurate reflection of a very traditional tribal country like Saudi Arabia, but not of a heterogenous country like Egypt, for example, or India.

Blaming Islam for the preservation of traditional economic functions is as shallow as blaming women's lib for our own economic shift. The expression of religion  - and women's movements - are a reflection of economic change, not the cause.


Karnal, I would say that any type of community is an economic system in itself, driving the people living within that community to generate some kind of output in order to survive.  Sure, people may use their religious beliefs to form a structure for their community, in order to build an economy for themselves, but I don't really see how all of a sudden what a person learns from their religious beliefs doesn't then drive their behaviour.   

And I'm sorry but of course we have to look at religion and its prevalence if we are to assess reasons for why traditional economic functions exist. Especially if religion is all of a sudden an economic system.


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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:42pm by sir prince duke alevine »  

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #275 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:40pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:04pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
Think harder, Alevine.

mothra, I would appreciate a more thought out response. Otherwise this type of discussion is simply pointless.  You sound like gweggy.


Focus, Alevine.

If you are going to refer generically to "Muslims" when you are being discriminatory .. you are sweeping all 1.6 billion of them up in it. You are insulting all 1.6 billion of them.

So it follows that you cannot reasonably object to being called a Nazi. As they are white folk and you are a white folk.

Why are you exempt from generalisations or association with the worst case examples of your group, Alevine?

Are you a rapist because you're a male?

A Nazi rapist?

Have i offended you?

I am not insulting anyone. I am being critical of an ideology that people, known by us as Muslims, follow, in the generalised majority of cases. Am I not allowed to be critical of this ideology?

And you can by all means generalise to the term Nazis for describing an ideology or belief that is common amongst Nazis. I don't really see what it has to do with skin colour, as opposed to belief system.   Can black people not be Nazis? Surprisingly, the people that Nazis's rallied against almost the same, if not more, as jews were the Slavs. And yet, there are many nazis in Bulgaria. So, you know, go figure, I'm sure black Nazis exist too.

And you have offended only in your complete lack of understanding.  Well, not so much offended, as much as disappointed.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #276 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:44pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:05pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:56pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:55pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:47pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.



Alevine, i know you read what people type to you because you are quick to pick on isolated comments ... but i don't think you actually consider it.

At least, you display a staggering level of misunderstanding.

which isolated comments? What misunderstanding? Clarify, mothra, please.

My argument is simple:  Religious dogma drives behaviour and drives understanding on moral issues. One such behaviour and moral question is marriage and sex amongst family members. I never said it was JUSt a muslim issue, I have consistently said it was an issue across many religions. But I'm simply saying that in this particular region of the world, based on the stats I'd say islam is a prime factor.  Especially when we consider the difference in behaviour amongst secular and non-secular people, and it just so happens, unfortunately, that in Islam there are less secular people than there are conservatives or even moderates.

Karnal confirms my thinking based on telling me about orthodox jews.  If you look at stats, somehow secular jews have a smaller rate. Are we to suggest that this is only the case when it comes to the Jewish faith? And somehow Islam is different? 



No Alevine. There is no religion that promotes cousin marriage. There are cultural traditions that promote cousin marriage however.

I believe this has been pointed out to you already?


so the difference between secular jews and orthodox jews is... ?


One is religious. The other (you can say this) identifies itself as a race.


Ah... I thought it was an economic system?

So the religious folk have a much higher prevalence of cousin marriage than the ones who identify as a race (secular jews don't btw, they identify with an ethnicity that drives their culture - take it from one).  Got it.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #277 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:46pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:40pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:04pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
Think harder, Alevine.

mothra, I would appreciate a more thought out response. Otherwise this type of discussion is simply pointless.  You sound like gweggy.


Focus, Alevine.

If you are going to refer generically to "Muslims" when you are being discriminatory .. you are sweeping all 1.6 billion of them up in it. You are insulting all 1.6 billion of them.

So it follows that you cannot reasonably object to being called a Nazi. As they are white folk and you are a white folk.

Why are you exempt from generalisations or association with the worst case examples of your group, Alevine?

Are you a rapist because you're a male?

A Nazi rapist?

Have i offended you?

I am not insulting anyone. I am being critical of an ideology that people, known by us as Muslims, follow, in the generalised majority of cases. Am I not allowed to be critical of this ideology?

And you can by all means generalise to the term Nazis for describing an ideology or belief that is common amongst Nazis. I don't really see what it has to do with skin colour, as opposed to belief system.   Can black people not be Nazis? Surprisingly, the people that Nazis's rallied against almost the same, if not more, as jews were the Slavs. And yet, there are many nazis in Bulgaria. So, you know, go figure, I'm sure black Nazis exist too.

And you have offended only in your complete lack of understanding.  Well, not so much offended, as much as disappointed.


Alevine, have you stopped to consider that not all Muslims think how you think they think? That owing to your prejudice, you may just have got it all wrong?

For example, Gandalf is considerably more humble and humane than yourself. Indeed than any of the harsh critics of Islam on this forum. Do you not think his religion may have influenced that? Or do you think a person can only be a decent Muslim despite their religion?

You have utterly failed to understand my meaning. Deliberately i suspect. Unless you accept that by virtue of being a white male, you may be associated with Nazi rapists, you are being a tremendous hypocrite.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #278 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:48pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:46pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:40pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:04pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:57pm:
Think harder, Alevine.

mothra, I would appreciate a more thought out response. Otherwise this type of discussion is simply pointless.  You sound like gweggy.


Focus, Alevine.

If you are going to refer generically to "Muslims" when you are being discriminatory .. you are sweeping all 1.6 billion of them up in it. You are insulting all 1.6 billion of them.

So it follows that you cannot reasonably object to being called a Nazi. As they are white folk and you are a white folk.

Why are you exempt from generalisations or association with the worst case examples of your group, Alevine?

Are you a rapist because you're a male?

A Nazi rapist?

Have i offended you?

I am not insulting anyone. I am being critical of an ideology that people, known by us as Muslims, follow, in the generalised majority of cases. Am I not allowed to be critical of this ideology?

And you can by all means generalise to the term Nazis for describing an ideology or belief that is common amongst Nazis. I don't really see what it has to do with skin colour, as opposed to belief system.   Can black people not be Nazis? Surprisingly, the people that Nazis's rallied against almost the same, if not more, as jews were the Slavs. And yet, there are many nazis in Bulgaria. So, you know, go figure, I'm sure black Nazis exist too.

And you have offended only in your complete lack of understanding.  Well, not so much offended, as much as disappointed.


Alevine, have you stopped to consider that not all Muslims think how you think they think? That owing to your prejudice, you may just have got it all wrong?

For example, Gandalf is considerably more humble and humane than yourself. Indeed than any of the harsh critics of Islam on this forum. Do you not think his religion may have influenced that? Or do you think a person can only be a decent Muslim despite their religion?

You have utterly failed to understand my meaning. Deliberately i suspect. Unless you accept that by virtue of being a white male, you may be associated with Nazi rapists, you are being a tremendous hypocrite.


Actually not at all. At the very beginning I have said I don't criticise individual Muslims who's opinions I am not aware of. I think you missed that part.  You're just getting upset because you think we shouldn't be grouping people. And yet here you were associating Nazis with white folk for some reason. Some kind of subconscious bias coming through, mothra?

And I really do enjoy how you and Karnal think you can judge people with whom you disagree. You have no idea how humane or humble I am, but only base this on the fact that I criticise islam and you don't like it. I am only being true to my actual liberal beliefs, mothra. I'd ask you not judge individual people without personally knowing them Wink  (just like I've always said I disagree with gandalf but I respect gandalf, which is true).

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #279 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm
 
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #280 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on?

Why do you feel you can personally offend me, mothra, or attempt to? I call you out on your regressive opinions when it comes to Islam, because they don't match with your otherwise liberal opinions.  That doesn't mean you can attempt to personally offend me.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #281 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:55pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on?



Yet there is an example of the result of that ideology right in front of you who is simply more humane, humble, intelligent, compassionate, reasonable and articulate than you and all of those who heap condemnation on him and what he believes.

There a millions of other examples throughout the world who present similarly.

Yet you use the words Islam and Muslim to denigrate .. and when you do so, you denigrate them, despite them being generally nicer people than you.

It is, as i have explained, no different to saying all men are potential rapists (what do we call women who say things like that) or that all white people who have negative views on difference amongst people are Nazis.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #282 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:00pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:55pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on?



Yet there is an example of the result of that ideology right in front of you who is simply more humane, humble, intelligent, compassionate, reasonable and articulate than you and all of those who heap condemnation on him and what he believes.

There a millions of other examples throughout the world who present similarly.

Yet you use the words Islam and Muslim to denigrate .. and when you do so, you denigrate them, despite them being generally nicer people than you.

It is, as i have explained, no different to saying all men are potential rapists (what do we call women who say things like that) or that all white people who have negative views on difference amongst people are Nazis.


Sure, and I have already stated that I completely agree that gandalf does not share in the interpretation of Islam that has spread across the Islamic world. Never have I said all muslims are the same. Again, something you've missed.

I again state that I don't really understand how you can get all offended by my criticism of an ideology, but then go and attempt to personally offend me?  Another regressive trait?

I don't use the words Muslim or Islam to denigrate. I have never said 'you're a muslim' to denigrate.  And it is very different ,yet again to calling all white people Nazis. You can definitely call people Nazis who walk around proclaiming the holocaust was a good thing, or that all black people are inferior to the Aryan race, or that Hitler was great .And you can definitely use the term Nazis for those majority commonly shared views.  How else should we describe it?

It's always fun watching regressive leftists jump into identity politics and start targeting individuals, as opposed to the actual issues.  Why don't you tell me again how inhumane I am Wink
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #283 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:03pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:01pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:42pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 6:10pm:
Has screwing your cousins become unique to Muslims now?


never said it was.  I've always argued that it is religion that drives behaviour to screw your cousins.  Karnal seems to consistently confirm it with his explanations about Indian communities and Jewish Orthodox communities, and yet then quickly supports his scholar when he says I'm being baseless in my rationale.  Go figure.


Not at all. Indian and Jewish Orthodox communities are economic systems.

Perhaps the biggest change to our own society was the inclusion of women in the labour market. This took them out of unpaid labour and onto wages. This had massive consequences, for both women's autonomy and male employment. It impacted on our own shift to a service econony. The structural unemployment of the 80s and 90s was not just about the loss of manufacturing, but the inclusion of women in the labour market.

The debate around this was constructed carefully,  but there was a lot of political and social opposition to this shift - from both the church and disgruntled men.

The Middle East and Central Asia has not made this transition. For them, there was no sexual revolution at all. Sure, it's different in the cities and amongst the growing middle class, but in the rural heartland of countries like India, life goes on as it has for centuries.

FD's inbreeding map doesn't capture this. If its data is true at all, it just describes national averages. This is probably an accurate reflection of a very traditional tribal country like Saudi Arabia, but not of a heterogenous country like Egypt, for example, or India.

Blaming Islam for the preservation of traditional economic functions is as shallow as blaming women's lib for our own economic shift. The expression of religion  - and women's movements - are a reflection of economic change, not the cause.


Karnal, I would say that any type of community is an economic system in itself, driving the people living within that community to generate some kind of output in order to survive.  Sure, people may use their religious beliefs to form a structure for their community, in order to build an economy for themselves, but I don't really see how all of a sudden what a person learns from their religious beliefs doesn't then drive their behaviour.   


The social structure we're analysing - arranged marriages, dowries, the role of women's labour in child and aged care - predates religion. Hinduism and the teachings of Mohammed were applied to a pre-existing gendered economy.

Importantly, you can still be a Hindu, Muslim or Christian and live in a middle class nuclear family. You can still marry for love, and plenty do. The Middle East and Central Asia is full of urbanized women working in jobs and placing the kids in child care (or hiring nannies). Parts of the Middle East have full equality for women, especially in the public service. Parts of the labour narket are dominated by women, like teaching and medicine. Religion has had nothing to do with this economic transformation. If anything, Muslim capitals like Cairo, Beirut and Istanbul have advanced at a much faster pace than Indian cities like Mumbai and Delhi.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #284 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:03pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:55pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on?



Yet there is an example of the result of that ideology right in front of you who is simply more humane, humble, intelligent, compassionate, reasonable and articulate than you and all of those who heap condemnation on him and what he believes.

There a millions of other examples throughout the world who present similarly.

Yet you use the words Islam and Muslim to denigrate .. and when you do so, you denigrate them, despite them being generally nicer people than you.

It is, as i have explained, no different to saying all men are potential rapists (what do we call women who say things like that) or that all white people who have negative views on difference amongst people are Nazis.


Sure, and I have already stated that I completely agree that gandalf does not share in the interpretation of Islam that has spread across the Islamic world. Never have I said all muslims are the same. Again, something you've missed.

I again state that I don't really understand how you can get all offended by my criticism of an ideology, but then go and attempt to personally offend me?  Another regressive trait?

I don't use the words Muslim or Islam to denigrate. I have never said 'you're a muslim' to denigrate.  And it is very different ,yet again to calling all white people Nazis. You can definitely call people Nazis who walk around proclaiming the holocaust was a good thing, or that all black people are inferior to the Aryan race, or that Hitler was great .And you can definitely use the term Nazis for those majority commonly shared views.  How else should we describe it?



Alevine, i haven't missed it. It is simply too little too late. You use the words Islam and Muslim to denigrate constatntly. You do not, unless challenged, make the disclaimer that you don't mean all Muslims.

It is, as i have pointed out, as if i were to call all white men who are not inclusive Nazi rapists ... then state as an afterthought that there may be exceptions.

Did it occur to you that it is those you take issue with who are the exceptions?

Of course not. Bigotry doesn't allow for that.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #285 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:06pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:03pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:55pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on?



Yet there is an example of the result of that ideology right in front of you who is simply more humane, humble, intelligent, compassionate, reasonable and articulate than you and all of those who heap condemnation on him and what he believes.

There a millions of other examples throughout the world who present similarly.

Yet you use the words Islam and Muslim to denigrate .. and when you do so, you denigrate them, despite them being generally nicer people than you.

It is, as i have explained, no different to saying all men are potential rapists (what do we call women who say things like that) or that all white people who have negative views on difference amongst people are Nazis.


Sure, and I have already stated that I completely agree that gandalf does not share in the interpretation of Islam that has spread across the Islamic world. Never have I said all muslims are the same. Again, something you've missed.

I again state that I don't really understand how you can get all offended by my criticism of an ideology, but then go and attempt to personally offend me?  Another regressive trait?

I don't use the words Muslim or Islam to denigrate. I have never said 'you're a muslim' to denigrate.  And it is very different ,yet again to calling all white people Nazis. You can definitely call people Nazis who walk around proclaiming the holocaust was a good thing, or that all black people are inferior to the Aryan race, or that Hitler was great .And you can definitely use the term Nazis for those majority commonly shared views.  How else should we describe it?



Alevine, i haven't missed it. It is simply too little too late. You use the words Islam and Muslim to denigrate constatntly. You do not, unless challenged, make the disclaimer that you don't mean all Muslims.

It is, as i have pointed out, as if i were to call all white men who are not inclusive Nazi rapists ... then state as an afterthought that there may be exceptions.

Did it occur to you that it is those you take issue with who are the exceptions?

Of course not. Bigotry doesn't allow for that.


If they were the exception then we wouldn't be seeing what we're seeing, mothra. Unfortunately, and I'm sure gandalf will agree, the exceptions are people like gandalf.

Btw, I know you keep alluding to your nazis analogy, but blatantly restating what has already been refuted doesn't actually make it a correct analogy.

And what's too little too late? I have never targeted an individual muslim without first understanding their opinion. Show me one example, mothra. Just one.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #286 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:08pm
 
Is that better, mothra?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #287 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:09pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on? 


I think I have, Alevine. I'm still trying to find out more about the bloodbath in Tunisia.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #288 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:09pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on? 


I think I have, Alevine. I'm still trying to find out more about the bloodbath in Tunisia.

But Karnal, you don't read, remember? Wink

There is no bloodbath in Tunisia. You really ought to get your reading abilities improved, my dear.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #289 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm
 
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #290 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:12pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:09pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on? 


I think I have, Alevine. I'm still trying to find out more about the bloodbath in Tunisia.

But Karnal, you don't read, remember? Wink

There is no bloodbath in Tunisia. You really ought to get your reading abilities improved, my dear.


Oh, is that what you meant by reading?

I thought you meant to read up on the impending bloodbath.

Sorry about that. Another case solved, no?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #291 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:14pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


I too have met many beautiful muslims.

And then I see the state of the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indian Muslim communities, Pakistan, and it teaches me not to use anecdotal evidence.

I haven't ever called you a man-hater, because I know from reading your opinions that you aren't. You're simply a regressive leftist that only assumes the liberal things you fight for are for the west, and if others live under dictatorial religious states then it's too rude and offensive to intervene, to fight for the beliefs you actually hold.

that's it, that's all you are. But definitely not a man-hater.  And guess what, despite my disagreeing with your position I still think you're humble, and honest, and humane.

And psst: it's not airtight. Your analogy makes very little to no sense.  As explained earlier. But I can put the explanation into my signature if it helps?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #292 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:15pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:12pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:09pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:51pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 7:49pm:
I didn't miss it Alevine. You simply do not walk the walk. You heap condemnation on Islam and Muslims with relish. Daily. Nightly.

Have you stopped to consider that you are being offensive? Not to mention quite incorrect.

Do you care?

If I am offending you then I'm afraid that's an issue for you.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being critical of an ideology. I heap condemnation on Islam because of the state of the Islamic world. Or have you missed what's going on? 


I think I have, Alevine. I'm still trying to find out more about the bloodbath in Tunisia.

But Karnal, you don't read, remember? Wink

There is no bloodbath in Tunisia. You really ought to get your reading abilities improved, my dear.


Oh, is that what you meant by reading?

I thought you meant to read up on the impending bloodbath.

Sorry about that. Another case solved, no?

Nooo my dear, I meant to read up on what I actually wrote, and also the actual article presented to you in the other thread.

Also, don't change people's posts. It's not a good trait, Karnal.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #293 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:17pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


I too have met many beautiful muslims.

And then I see the state of the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indian Muslim communities, Pakistan, and it teaches me not to use anecdotal evidence.

I haven't ever called you a man-hater, because I know from reading your opinions that you aren't. You're simply a regressive leftist that only assumes the liberal things you fight for are for the west, and if others live under dictatorial religious states then it's too rude and offensive to intervene, to fight for the beliefs you actually hold.

that's it, that's all you are. But definitely not a man-hater.  And guess what, despite my disagreeing with your position I still think you're humble, and honest, and humane.

And psst: it's not airtight. Your analogy makes very little to no sense.  As explained earlier. But I can put the explanation into my signature if it helps?



You have absolutely no idea what i do or don't fight for, Alevine. How could you?

But calling me a regressive left because i disagree with your generalisations about and interpretations of Islam is somehow different to me calling you a Nazi rapist?

You're not being very consistent, Alevine.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #294 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:19pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


I too have met many beautiful muslims.

And then I see the state of the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indian Muslim communities, Pakistan, and it teaches me not to use anecdotal evidence.

I haven't ever called you a man-hater, because I know from reading your opinions that you aren't. You're simply a regressive leftist that only assumes the liberal things you fight for are for the west, and if others live under dictatorial religious states then it's too rude and offensive to intervene, to fight for the beliefs you actually hold.

that's it, that's all you are. But definitely not a man-hater.  And guess what, despite my disagreeing with your position I still think you're humble, and honest, and humane.

And psst: it's not airtight. Your analogy makes very little to no sense.  As explained earlier. But I can put the explanation into my signature if it helps?



You have absolutely no idea what i do or don't fight for, Alevine. How could you?

But calling me a regressive left because i disagree with your generalisations about and interpretations of Islam is somehow different to me calling you a Nazi rapist?

You're not being very consistent, Alevine.


Well of course because your actual individual opinions and actions make you a regressive leftist.  I of course can only guess this based on your posts on this forum, but that's how your posts paint you, mothra. 

As for me ,I have never PERSONALLY raped anyone nor believe the Aryan race is supreme or the holocaust was good.  What makes you think otherwise? (psst Karnal: a perfect opportunity to edit my post to make it look like I said the aryan race is supreme and the holocaust was awesome.  Oh lookie, I did it twice! You can misquote me twice!)
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #295 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:22pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:19pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


I too have met many beautiful muslims.

And then I see the state of the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indian Muslim communities, Pakistan, and it teaches me not to use anecdotal evidence.

I haven't ever called you a man-hater, because I know from reading your opinions that you aren't. You're simply a regressive leftist that only assumes the liberal things you fight for are for the west, and if others live under dictatorial religious states then it's too rude and offensive to intervene, to fight for the beliefs you actually hold.

that's it, that's all you are. But definitely not a man-hater.  And guess what, despite my disagreeing with your position I still think you're humble, and honest, and humane.

And psst: it's not airtight. Your analogy makes very little to no sense.  As explained earlier. But I can put the explanation into my signature if it helps?



You have absolutely no idea what i do or don't fight for, Alevine. How could you?

But calling me a regressive left because i disagree with your generalisations about and interpretations of Islam is somehow different to me calling you a Nazi rapist?

You're not being very consistent, Alevine.


Well of course because your actual individual opinions make you a regressive leftist.  I of course can only guess this based on your posts on this forum, but that's how your posts paint you, mothra. 

As for me ,I have never PERSONALLY raped anyone nor believe the white race is supreme.  (psst Karnal: a perfect opportunity to edit my post to make it look like I said the white race is supreme.  Oh lookie, I did it twice! You can misquote me twice!)



No they don't. There is absolutely nothing regressive about me. That is simply a lable you have assigned me because i oppose your views and techniques.

And does it matter what you personally have done or have not done? We are labelling people here, Alevine. According to the groups they represent.

Are we to consistently apply the principle or not?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #296 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:23pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:22pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:19pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


I too have met many beautiful muslims.

And then I see the state of the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indian Muslim communities, Pakistan, and it teaches me not to use anecdotal evidence.

I haven't ever called you a man-hater, because I know from reading your opinions that you aren't. You're simply a regressive leftist that only assumes the liberal things you fight for are for the west, and if others live under dictatorial religious states then it's too rude and offensive to intervene, to fight for the beliefs you actually hold.

that's it, that's all you are. But definitely not a man-hater.  And guess what, despite my disagreeing with your position I still think you're humble, and honest, and humane.

And psst: it's not airtight. Your analogy makes very little to no sense.  As explained earlier. But I can put the explanation into my signature if it helps?



You have absolutely no idea what i do or don't fight for, Alevine. How could you?

But calling me a regressive left because i disagree with your generalisations about and interpretations of Islam is somehow different to me calling you a Nazi rapist?

You're not being very consistent, Alevine.


Well of course because your actual individual opinions make you a regressive leftist.  I of course can only guess this based on your posts on this forum, but that's how your posts paint you, mothra. 

As for me ,I have never PERSONALLY raped anyone nor believe the white race is supreme.  (psst Karnal: a perfect opportunity to edit my post to make it look like I said the white race is supreme.  Oh lookie, I did it twice! You can misquote me twice!)



No they don't. There is absolutely nothing regressive about me. That is simply a leble you have assigned me because i oppose your views and techniques.

And does it matter what you personally have done or have not done? We are labelling people here, Alevine. According to the groups they represent.

Are we to consistently apply the principle or not?

Mothra, this discussion in itself, and your complete disregard for the problems that the current widespread interpretations of Islam have created, make you a regressive leftist.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #297 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:27pm
 
No Alevine. I do not blame Islam, is all. I blame people who have used dogma to exploit, oppress and control. As not all Muslims do that or interpret the Quran in that way, i look to other variables as causal factors.

I find them quite easily.

Unfortunately, far too many people, such as yourself, do not go to the bother.

Which is why some women think all men are potential rapists .. and some tinted folk think white people are Nazis.

Rather unfair of them, wouldn't you say?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #298 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:30pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


And There's the rub. The haters can't understand that the abstract figures they call Muslims are, for some, our friends, colleagues and neighbours. The people they want to ban, kill and offend are our friends and family.

This is the other thing I'm sad about in this post-truth/fake news world. We've become alienated from real people, places and things. We're expected to believe everything posted on Jihadwatch or the UK Daily Mail and join in the hate sessions against members of our own community.

FD and Alevine's pretense that this is just an erstwhile academic critique of a religion is betrayed by their personal attacks. Their descriptions of retarded inbred murderers who worship a moon God and squat to piss rather gives them away, wouldn't you say?
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« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:36pm by Mattyfisk »  
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #299 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:36pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


And There's the rub. The haters can't understand that the abstract figures they call Muslims are, for some, our friends, colleagues and neighbours. The people they want to ban, kill and offend are our friends and family.

This is the other thing I'm sad about in this post-truth/fake news world. We've become alienated from real people, places and things. We're expected to believe everything posted on Jihadwatch or the UK Daily Mail and join in the hate sessions against members of our own community.



And has not history taught us that such prejudicial distinctions lead to more prejudicial distinctions?

They certainly, at the very least, do not lead to peace, understanding and universal human rights.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #300 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:40pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:19pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


I too have met many beautiful muslims.

And then I see the state of the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indian Muslim communities, Pakistan, and it teaches me not to use anecdotal evidence.

I haven't ever called you a man-hater, because I know from reading your opinions that you aren't. You're simply a regressive leftist that only assumes the liberal things you fight for are for the west, and if others live under dictatorial religious states then it's too rude and offensive to intervene, to fight for the beliefs you actually hold.

that's it, that's all you are. But definitely not a man-hater.  And guess what, despite my disagreeing with your position I still think you're humble, and honest, and humane.

And psst: it's not airtight. Your analogy makes very little to no sense.  As explained earlier. But I can put the explanation into my signature if it helps?



You have absolutely no idea what i do or don't fight for, Alevine. How could you?

But calling me a regressive left because i disagree with your generalisations about and interpretations of Islam is somehow different to me calling you a Nazi rapist?

You're not being very consistent, Alevine.


Well of course because your actual individual opinions and actions make you a regressive leftist.  I of course can only guess this based on your posts on this forum, but that's how your posts paint you, mothra. 

As for me ,I have never PERSONALLY raped anyone nor believe the Aryan race is supreme or the holocaust was good.  What makes you think otherwise? (psst Karnal: a perfect opportunity to edit my post to make it look like I said the aryan race is supreme and the holocaust was awesome. Oh lookie, I did it twice! You can misquote me twice!)


Put him in the thread with JS, FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #301 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:42pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
No Alevine. I do not blame Islam, is all. I blame people who have used dogma to exploit, oppress and control. As not all Muslims do that or interpret the Quran in that way, i look to other variables as causal factors.

I find them quite easily.

Unfortunately, far too many people, such as yourself, do not go to the bother.

Which is why some women think all men are potential rapists .. and some tinted folk think white people are Nazis.

Rather unfair of them, wouldn't you say?



what are the other variables?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #302 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:43pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:40pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:19pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:17pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


I too have met many beautiful muslims.

And then I see the state of the Middle East, Indonesia, Malaysia, Indian Muslim communities, Pakistan, and it teaches me not to use anecdotal evidence.

I haven't ever called you a man-hater, because I know from reading your opinions that you aren't. You're simply a regressive leftist that only assumes the liberal things you fight for are for the west, and if others live under dictatorial religious states then it's too rude and offensive to intervene, to fight for the beliefs you actually hold.

that's it, that's all you are. But definitely not a man-hater.  And guess what, despite my disagreeing with your position I still think you're humble, and honest, and humane.

And psst: it's not airtight. Your analogy makes very little to no sense.  As explained earlier. But I can put the explanation into my signature if it helps?



You have absolutely no idea what i do or don't fight for, Alevine. How could you?

But calling me a regressive left because i disagree with your generalisations about and interpretations of Islam is somehow different to me calling you a Nazi rapist?

You're not being very consistent, Alevine.


Well of course because your actual individual opinions and actions make you a regressive leftist.  I of course can only guess this based on your posts on this forum, but that's how your posts paint you, mothra. 

As for me ,I have never PERSONALLY raped anyone nor believe the Aryan race is supreme or the holocaust was good.  What makes you think otherwise? (psst Karnal: a perfect opportunity to edit my post to make it look like I said the aryan race is supreme and the holocaust was awesome. Oh lookie, I did it twice! You can misquote me twice!)


Put him in the thread with JS, FD.

No Karnal, you need to actually edit it. You know, like you did before?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #303 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:45pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


And There's the rub. The haters can't understand that the abstract figures they call Muslims are, for some, our friends, colleagues and neighbours. The people they want to ban, kill and offend are our friends and family.

This is the other thing I'm sad about in this post-truth/fake news world. We've become alienated from real people, places and things. We're expected to believe everything posted on Jihadwatch or the UK Daily Mail and join in the hate sessions against members of our own community.

FD and Alevine's pretense that this is just an erstwhile academic critique of a religion is betrayed by their personal attacks. Their descriptions of retarded inbred murderers who worship a moon God and squat to piss rather gives them away, wouldn't you say?


When have I called muslims retarded inbred murdered who worship a moon god and squat to piss?

I also don't want to ban muslim migration. Nor kill muslims. Please don't attribute opinions to me that aren't mine, Karnal. LAst I checked I don't do it to you nor mothra. If you can't argue what I say then don't argue things you pretend I said.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #304 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:46pm
 
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


And There's the rub. The haters can't understand that the abstract figures they call Muslims are, for some, our friends, colleagues and neighbours. The people they want to ban, kill and offend are our friends and family.

This is the other thing I'm sad about in this post-truth/fake news world. We've become alienated from real people, places and things. We're expected to believe everything posted on Jihadwatch or the UK Daily Mail and join in the hate sessions against members of our own community.



And has not history taught us that such prejudicial distinctions lead to more prejudicial distinctions?

They certainly, at the very least, do not lead to peace, understanding and universal human rights.


Of course not. The result is war, ignorance and tyranny. You know, the Ministries of Peace, Truth and Love.

For Winston Smith, the sheer hypocrisy was the hardest thing to take, that two plus two should equal five.

Forget the fake bloodshed Alevine writes about to get us into a frenzy. For me, the saddest thing is the erosion of truth.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #305 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:49pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:46pm:
For me, the saddest thing is the erosion of truth.


Amen.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #306 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:49pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:46pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:36pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


And There's the rub. The haters can't understand that the abstract figures they call Muslims are, for some, our friends, colleagues and neighbours. The people they want to ban, kill and offend are our friends and family.

This is the other thing I'm sad about in this post-truth/fake news world. We've become alienated from real people, places and things. We're expected to believe everything posted on Jihadwatch or the UK Daily Mail and join in the hate sessions against members of our own community.



And has not history taught us that such prejudicial distinctions lead to more prejudicial distinctions?

They certainly, at the very least, do not lead to peace, understanding and universal human rights.


Of course not. The result is war, ignorance and tyranny. You know, the Ministries of Peace, Truth and Love.

For Winston Smith, the sheer hypocrisy was the hardest thing to take, that two plus two should equal five.

Forget the fake bloodshed Alevine writes about to get us into a frenzy. For me, the saddest thing is the erosion of truth.


The erosion of truth like trying to tell us that having dictators in the Middle East provides stability for the region?  That kind of erosion of truth? I wonder why this is so...

Also quite funny to see a person who purposely edits other's posts to then talk about erosion of truth Wink   An apology for your drunken actions would be nice, Karnal.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #307 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:06pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:45pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:30pm:
mothra wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
It's a perfect analogy. You are simply resisting it. It is water-tight.

As i get called a man-hater on here all the time because i am a feminist.

Bigots generalise.

You are a bigot.

Gandalf is not an exception. I have met many beautiful Muslims. I have heard many beautiful Muslims speak. I have witnessed many beautiful Muslims carry out acts of peace and charity .. which is very much a part of their religion.

You insult, even negate them every time you denigrate Muslims and Islam.


And There's the rub. The haters can't understand that the abstract figures they call Muslims are, for some, our friends, colleagues and neighbours. The people they want to ban, kill and offend are our friends and family.

This is the other thing I'm sad about in this post-truth/fake news world. We've become alienated from real people, places and things. We're expected to believe everything posted on Jihadwatch or the UK Daily Mail and join in the hate sessions against members of our own community.

FD and Alevine's pretense that this is just an erstwhile academic critique of a religion is betrayed by their personal attacks. Their descriptions of retarded inbred murderers who worship a moon God and squat to piss rather gives them away, wouldn't you say?


When have I called muslims retarded inbred murdered who worship a moon god and squat to piss?

I also don't want to ban muslim migration. Nor kill muslims.


These are descriptions you have commented on and consented to, Alevine, you know that. You're currently all cranky about Muslim inbreeding. You have indeed described the impact of this upon Muslims (not Arabs or Indians). You have indeed declared that this makes Muslims stupid and retarded.

No, you have not mentioned the moon God or squatting down to piss. This is Moses' line. FD always agrees with this one.

You have indeed called for invasions of Muslim countries on the flimsiest of pretexts. You're right, I haven't seen you calling for an outright ban on Muslim immigration. Instead, you've said things like the West needs to wake up, deal with the problem, tackle the issue, etc, etc, etc. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

One thing we know: your ruse that this is all about Islamism (as opposed to Islam and Muslims) is now exposed. Your post about Tunisia shows that you have no desire to liberalise or reform Islam. Rather than celebrating the extension of rights to Tunisian women, you scoffed at the very idea, instead turning it into a debate on non-existent bloodbaths.

Anyway, you haven't used the Islamist party line since you returned. For you, this is all about Muslims and their apologists. Your arguments use the same tone and language as the most virulent Nazis here, like Herbie. Hysterical, over-the-top hyperbole.

I would find it very difficult to believe that you don't support a Muslim ban, but you're right. I haven't seen you promote this yet.

I welcome a genuine debate on all these issues. Unfortunately, the standard of debate here makes this almost impossible.

As you can see, when you post something sensible and curious, you'll get a considered reply.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #308 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:31pm
 
The flimsiest of pretexts? Such as the denial of human rights, systematic murder of over 2 million people, sex chambers, gasings, that kind of flimsiest pretext? We've only ever discussed Iraq, and I don't shy away from my opinion that I'd rather remove a genocidal manic then let the maniac and his sons exists because of a fear of further maniacs.  Mistakes in Iraq were made, the reason used was wrong. What should've happened is a lot more western contribution into the country post invasion. But alas, the leftist regressives were too angry that a dictator was removed to ever support proper work in Iraq, to actually bring a peaceful life to the people.

With Muslim migration, my concern is with conservative Muslims, Islamists and jihadists.  I don't want to see a ban on Muslim migration primarily because reformist Muslims,moderate Muslims and secular Muslims need help and need support to bring about change to the rest of the Islamic world. But with Muslim migration we must be honest that threats are presented. Aside from the obvious threat with Islamists and jihadists, the very fact that Muslim communities are being very quiet about the gay marriage debate is testament that beliefs are different, and that integration systems aren't functioning. Thus, should we not be true to the problems and think about what conservative Muslim migration means to Australia?  Or do you think conservative Muslims are only conservative because of the economy, and money will solve all ills?

What other diatribe must I respond to... oh yes, I've never said it was only about Islamists and jihadists. My concerns lie also with conservative Muslims. How can they not when we know the majority support the death penalty for leaving the religion?

Again, I support the changes in Tunisia but am astonished that such obvious reform can garner strong opposition.

I think the biggest difference karnal is I am true to what opinions I have.  You lie consistently and misread. And changing what someone writes... well that's just blatantly dishonest.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #309 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:43pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:31pm:
The flimsiest of pretexts? Such as the denial of human rights, systematic murder of over 2 million people, sex chambers, gasings, that kind of flimsiest pretext? We've only ever discussed Iraq, and I don't shy away from my opinion that I'd rather remove a genocidal manic then let the maniac and his sons exists because of a fear of further maniacs.  Mistakes in Iraq were made, the reason used was wrong. What should've happened is a lot more western contribution into the country post invasion. But alas, the leftist regressives were too angry that a dictator was removed to ever support proper work in Iraq, to actually bring a peaceful life to the people.

With Muslim migration, my concern is with conservative Muslims, Islamists and jihadists.  I don't want to see a ban on Muslim migration primarily because reformist Muslims,moderate Muslims and secular Muslims need help and need support to bring about change to the rest of the Islamic world. But with Muslim migration we must be honest that threats are presented. Aside from the obvious threat with Islamists and jihadists, the very fact that Muslim communities are being very quiet about the gay marriage debate is testament that beliefs are different, and that integration systems aren't functioning. Thus, should we not be true to the problems and think about what conservative Muslim migration means to Australia?  Or do you think conservative Muslims are only conservative because of the economy, and money will solve all ills?

What other diatribe must I respond to... oh yes, I've never said it was only about Islamists and jihadists. My concerns lie also with conservative Muslims. How can they not when we know the majority support the death penalty for leaving the religion?

Again, I support the changes in Tunisia but am astonished that such obvious reform can garner strong opposition.

I think the biggest difference karnal is I am true to what opinions I have.  You lie consistently and misread. And changing what someone writes... well that's just blatantly dishonest.



When have I ever changed something you wrote?

Muslim religious leaders are quite clear about what they think of gay marriage, as are Catholic and Anglican religious leaders.

They don't support it. A Christian group has ads on TV against it.

I'm not sure why you think security threats are being ignored. The government never shuts up about them. The last time we had a thwarted bomb threat, the PM himself did the press conference. The Feds have just been overhauled and given a few extra million to get stuck into terror threats. They've just given a comprehensive reply to the report into the Martin Place siege, which was all over the media. What exactly is being ignored?

To my knowledge, conservative Muslims pose no threat to security. The danger comes from those radicalised online - those who pay little attention to what is said by conservative religious leaders and imams. They want a kind of violent Islamic revolution - something the conservatives tell us is completely contradictory to Muslim teachings. The conservatives are those who cooperate with authorities to catch the radicals.

Yes, I do believe moving to a liberal democracy like Australia changes people's traditional beliefs. This doesn't always happen with the oldies, but their kids rarely play the game. We've seen this with successive waves of migration in Australia. Look at Walid Ali or Sam Dastiari to see how the second generation integrates. Who cares if Greek Orthodox or Lebanese Copts or Syrian Shiites or whoever else believes in death for apostasy? They know we don't have the death penalty in Australia, and they know it's illegal to kill people.

We have migration to replace our ageing population and provide the economy with skills. Migration doesn't have to cause terrorism. September 11 was carried out by European Muslims on student visas. How could you ever prevent a Muslim from getting into Australia to blow something up?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #310 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 10:51pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:31pm:
The flimsiest of pretexts? Such as the denial of human rights, systematic murder of over 2 million people, sex chambers, gasings, that kind of flimsiest pretext? We've only ever discussed Iraq, and I don't shy away from my opinion that I'd rather remove a genocidal manic then let the maniac and his sons exists because of a fear of further maniacs.  Mistakes in Iraq were made, the reason used was wrong. What should've happened is a lot more western contribution into the country post invasion. But alas, the leftist regressives were too angry that a dictator was removed to ever support proper work in Iraq, to actually bring a peaceful life to the people.

With Muslim migration, my concern is with conservative Muslims, Islamists and jihadists.  I don't want to see a ban on Muslim migration primarily because reformist Muslims,moderate Muslims and secular Muslims need help and need support to bring about change to the rest of the Islamic world. But with Muslim migration we must be honest that threats are presented. Aside from the obvious threat with Islamists and jihadists, the very fact that Muslim communities are being very quiet about the gay marriage debate is testament that beliefs are different, and that integration systems aren't functioning. Thus, should we not be true to the problems and think about what conservative Muslim migration means to Australia?  Or do you think conservative Muslims are only conservative because of the economy, and money will solve all ills?

What other diatribe must I respond to... oh yes, I've never said it was only about Islamists and jihadists. My concerns lie also with conservative Muslims. How can they not when we know the majority support the death penalty for leaving the religion?

Again, I support the changes in Tunisia but am astonished that such obvious reform can garner strong opposition.

I think the biggest difference karnal is I am true to what opinions I have.  You lie consistently and misread. And changing what someone writes... well that's just blatantly dishonest.



When have I ever changed something you wrote?

Muslim religious leaders are quite clear about what they think of gay marriage, as are Catholic and Anglican religious leaders.

They don't support it. A Christian group has ads on TV against it.

I'm not sure why you think security threats are being ignored. The government never shuts up about them. The last time we had a thwarted bomb threat, the PM himself did the press conference. The Feds have just been overhauled and given a few extra million to get stuck into terror threats. They've just given a comprehensive reply to the report into the Martin Place siege, which was all over the media. What exactly is being ignored?

To my knowledge, conservative Muslims pose no threat to security. The danger comes from those radicalised online - those who pay little attention to what is said by conservative religious leaders and imams. They want a kind of violent Islamic revolution - something the conservatives tell us is completely contradictory to Muslim teachings. The conservatives are those who cooperate with authorities to catch the radicals.

Yes, I do believe moving to a liberal democracy like Australia changes people's traditional beliefs. This doesn't always happen with the oldies, but their kids rarely play the game. We've seen this with successive waves of migration in Australia. Look at Walid Ali or Sam Dastiari to see how the second generation integrates. Who cares if Greek Orthodox or Lebanese Copts or Syrian Shiites or whoever else believes in death for apostasy? They know we don't have the death penalty in Australia, and they know it's illegal to kill people.

We have migration to replace our ageing population and provide the economy with skills. Migration doesn't have to cause terrorism. September 11 was carried out by European Muslims on student visas. How could you ever prevent a Muslim from getting into Australia to blow something up?

All of this is so simplistic.  Would you agree or disagree that muslim religious leaders would represent community opinion? Or do you think it's ONLY the leaders?

When I talk about threats I don't just mean security, and yes I would agree that conservative muslims pose very little threat to security, if any at all. That's mainly jihadists, not even islamists pose security threat other than threats to our governments and institutions.  When I talk about threat I mean threat to Australia's liberal democracy.  Democracies, as we know, are only as good as the opinions within them.  It is probably why, at this moment in time, no democracy can work effectively in the Islamic world, where the opinions are based off an illiberal interpretation of Islam. So, what do you think happens, if we just allow mass migration of conservative muslims, who will form segregated  communities, as is the case now and always has been because of our lacklustre integration policies, and will live under different principles to Australia's liberal democracy? Do you really want to live within a two tiered and fractured society? I understand Walid Ali, and Sam Dastiari, are success stories. And there are many successes. But for each there are also many failures.  And while you think it's irrelevant, I think a fractured society is no fun at all.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #311 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 10:54pm
 
And Karnal - Reply #83 in the muslims and gay marriage thread. 

You are welcome to PM me an apology, I don't care if you can't admit publicly to your dishonesty.  Mr protector of truth Wink
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #312 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:01pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 10:54pm:
And Karnal - Reply #83 in the muslims and gay marriage thread. 

You are welcome to PM me an apology, I don't care if you can't admit publicly to your dishonesty.  Mr protector of truth Wink


I didn't change any of your words, Alevine. Given up on Islam-inspired racism, have you?

That didn't take long.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #313 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:03pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:01pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 10:54pm:
And Karnal - Reply #83 in the muslims and gay marriage thread. 

You are welcome to PM me an apology, I don't care if you can't admit publicly to your dishonesty.  Mr protector of truth Wink


I didn't change any of your words, Alevine. Given up on Islam-inspired racism, have you?

That didn't take long.

You did indeed, karnal. I don't really care, but I ask you not to pretend you are honest, when you do this kind of stuff.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #314 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 10:51pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 9:31pm:
The flimsiest of pretexts? Such as the denial of human rights, systematic murder of over 2 million people, sex chambers, gasings, that kind of flimsiest pretext? We've only ever discussed Iraq, and I don't shy away from my opinion that I'd rather remove a genocidal manic then let the maniac and his sons exists because of a fear of further maniacs.  Mistakes in Iraq were made, the reason used was wrong. What should've happened is a lot more western contribution into the country post invasion. But alas, the leftist regressives were too angry that a dictator was removed to ever support proper work in Iraq, to actually bring a peaceful life to the people.

With Muslim migration, my concern is with conservative Muslims, Islamists and jihadists.  I don't want to see a ban on Muslim migration primarily because reformist Muslims,moderate Muslims and secular Muslims need help and need support to bring about change to the rest of the Islamic world. But with Muslim migration we must be honest that threats are presented. Aside from the obvious threat with Islamists and jihadists, the very fact that Muslim communities are being very quiet about the gay marriage debate is testament that beliefs are different, and that integration systems aren't functioning. Thus, should we not be true to the problems and think about what conservative Muslim migration means to Australia?  Or do you think conservative Muslims are only conservative because of the economy, and money will solve all ills?

What other diatribe must I respond to... oh yes, I've never said it was only about Islamists and jihadists. My concerns lie also with conservative Muslims. How can they not when we know the majority support the death penalty for leaving the religion?

Again, I support the changes in Tunisia but am astonished that such obvious reform can garner strong opposition.

I think the biggest difference karnal is I am true to what opinions I have.  You lie consistently and misread. And changing what someone writes... well that's just blatantly dishonest.



When have I ever changed something you wrote?

Muslim religious leaders are quite clear about what they think of gay marriage, as are

To my knowledge, conservative Muslims pose no threat to security. The danger comes from those radicalised online - those who pay little attention to what is said by conservative religious leaders and imams. They want a kind of violent Islamic revolution - something the conservatives tell us is completely contradictory to Muslim teachings. The conservatives are those who cooperate with authorities to catch the radicals.

Yes, I do believe moving to a liberal democracy like Australia changes people's traditional beliefs. This doesn't always happen with the oldies, but their kids rarely play the game. We've seen this with successive waves of migration in Australia. Look at Walid Ali or Sam Dastiari to see how the second generation integrates. Who cares if Greek Orthodox or Lebanese Copts or Syrian Shiites or whoever else believes in death for apostasy? They know we don't have the

We have migration to replace our ageing population and provide the economy with skills. Migration doesn't have to cause terrorism. September 11 was carried out by European Muslims on student visas. How could you ever prevent a Muslim from getting into Australia to blow something up?

All of this is so simplistic.  Would you agree or disagree that muslim religious leaders would represent community opinion? Or do you think it's ONLY the leaders?

When I talk about threats I don't just mean security, and yes I would agree that conservative muslims pose very little threat to security, if any at all. That's mainly jihadists, not even islamists pose security threat other than threats to our governments and institutions.  When I talk about threat I mean threat to Australia's liberal democracy.  Democracies, as we know, are only as good as the opinions within them.  It is probably why, at this moment in time, no democracy can work effectively in the Islamic world, where the opinions are based off an illiberal interpretation of Islam. So, what do you think happens, if we just allow mass migration of conservative muslims, who will form segregated  communities, as is the case now and always has been because of our lacklustre integration policies, and will live under different principles to Australia's liberal democracy? Do you really want to live within a two tiered and fractured society? I understand Walid Ali, and Sam Dastiari, are success stories. And there are many successes. But for each there are also many failures.  And while you think it's irrelevant, I think a fractured society is no fun at all


Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #315 - Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?

Everything has to do with tinted with you, Karnal. Why are you so obsessed about people's skins? 

Of course I don't mean conservative muslims are terrorists. Terrorists tend to be jihadists. Conservative muslims are people who, at the presnet moment, tend to believe the illiberal Islam version that is plaguing the Islamic world.  And I'm glad you mention the Greek community and the Vietnamese community.  For one, the numbers of people, as mothra likes to always tell us, are not nearly the same within the world.  Nor is the extremity in views held.  I would also say that while things are definitely better than they used to be, at least in melbourne there is still segregation within communities and the vietnamese very much so tend to still live amongst other vietnamese.  Now, you might think that's a wonderful thing because you can get wonderful Pho and Bahn Mi, but I'd say that's actually bad for both the Vietnamese people, and the wider community. Proper multiculturam isn't about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi in one specific area of Melbourne. It's about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi absolutely everywhere, and mixed amongst other great foods etc etc etc.  As for conservative muslim migration, it is different. Like I said, for one the numbers we are talking about are much larger than the Greeks or Vietnamese, in the world.  Secondly, extremity of the situation in the Islamic world tells me the difference in opinion and level of illiberal views is much higher. Lastly, the same segregation in communities is happening, and when you end up having rallies of people crying about cartoons, who happen to be second generation and not first, then I don't see this as any success story that tells us we should encourage even greater immigration, without looking at what's not going right at the moment.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #316 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 3:47am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?

Everything has to do with tinted with you, Karnal. Why are you so obsessed about people's skins? 

Of course I don't mean conservative muslims are terrorists. Terrorists tend to be jihadists. Conservative muslims are people who, at the presnet moment, tend to believe the illiberal Islam version that is plaguing the Islamic world.  And I'm glad you mention the Greek community and the Vietnamese community.  For one, the numbers of people, as mothra likes to always tell us, are not nearly the same within the world.  Nor is the extremity in views held.  I would also say that while things are definitely better than they used to be, at least in melbourne there is still segregation within communities and the vietnamese very much so tend to still live amongst other vietnamese.  Now, you might think that's a wonderful thing because you can get wonderful Pho and Bahn Mi, but I'd say that's actually bad for both the Vietnamese people, and the wider community. Proper multiculturam isn't about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi in one specific area of Melbourne. It's about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi absolutely everywhere, and mixed amongst other great foods etc etc etc.


You haven't seen Luke Nguyen on the Tele? He's made Vietnamese food famous around the world, via Australia. His restaurant in Surry Hills pioneered Vietnamese/European fusion. This even caught on in Vietnam.

It's now old hat, so to speak.

I must say though, I'm a tad surprised you've now turned your back on multiculturalism. You were a fervent admirer back in the day. Would you like to say what really happened?

Imagine the old Alevine reading his Hansonesque views of today. You would have chased yourself around for pages. Seriously, what changed?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #317 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:14am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 3:47am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?

Everything has to do with tinted with you, Karnal. Why are you so obsessed about people's skins? 

Of course I don't mean conservative muslims are terrorists. Terrorists tend to be jihadists. Conservative muslims are people who, at the presnet moment, tend to believe the illiberal Islam version that is plaguing the Islamic world.  And I'm glad you mention the Greek community and the Vietnamese community.  For one, the numbers of people, as mothra likes to always tell us, are not nearly the same within the world.  Nor is the extremity in views held.  I would also say that while things are definitely better than they used to be, at least in melbourne there is still segregation within communities and the vietnamese very much so tend to still live amongst other vietnamese.  Now, you might think that's a wonderful thing because you can get wonderful Pho and Bahn Mi, but I'd say that's actually bad for both the Vietnamese people, and the wider community. Proper multiculturam isn't about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi in one specific area of Melbourne. It's about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi absolutely everywhere, and mixed amongst other great foods etc etc etc.


You haven't seen Luke Nguyen on the Tele? He's made Vietnamese food famous around the world, via Australia. His restaurant in Surry Hills pioneered Vietnamese/European fusion. This even caught on in Vietnam.

It's now old hat, so to speak.

I must say though, I'm a tad surprised you've now turned your back on multiculturalism. You were a fervent admirer back in the day. Would you like to say what really happened?

Imagine the old Alevine reading his Hansonesque views of today. You would have chased yourself around for pages. Seriously, what changed?


Im not against multiculturism.  I'm against multiculturism in its current form.  Why? Because unfortunately it doesn't work, and its surface based too.

Hey, if we could have integration programs in place that ensure conservative Muslims part ways with their illiberal views then I'm all for it.  But as it stands what's going to happen?  Segregated communities, fractured societies, completely different lifestyles depending on which suburb you're in. That's good? I don't think so.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #318 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:40am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:14am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 3:47am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?

Everything has to do with tinted with you, Karnal. Why are you so obsessed about people's skins? 

Of course I don't mean conservative muslims are terrorists. Terrorists tend to be jihadists. Conservative muslims are people who, at the presnet moment, tend to believe the illiberal Islam version that is plaguing the Islamic world.  And I'm glad you mention the Greek community and the Vietnamese community.  For one, the numbers of people, as mothra likes to always tell us, are not nearly the same within the world.  Nor is the extremity in views held.  I would also say that while things are definitely better than they used to be, at least in melbourne there is still segregation within communities and the vietnamese very much so tend to still live amongst other vietnamese.  Now, you might think that's a wonderful thing because you can get wonderful Pho and Bahn Mi, but I'd say that's actually bad for both the Vietnamese people, and the wider community. Proper multiculturam isn't about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi in one specific area of Melbourne. It's about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi absolutely everywhere, and mixed amongst other great foods etc etc etc.


You haven't seen Luke Nguyen on the Tele? He's made Vietnamese food famous around the world, via Australia. His restaurant in Surry Hills pioneered Vietnamese/European fusion. This even caught on in Vietnam.

It's now old hat, so to speak.

I must say though, I'm a tad surprised you've now turned your back on multiculturalism. You were a fervent admirer back in the day. Would you like to say what really happened?

Imagine the old Alevine reading his Hansonesque views of today. You would have chased yourself around for pages. Seriously, what changed?


Im not against multiculturism.  I'm against multiculturism in its current form.  Why? Because unfortunately it doesn't work, and its surface based too.

Hey, if we could have integration programs in place that ensure conservative Muslims part ways with their illiberal views then I'm all for it.  But as it stands what's going to happen?  Segregated communities, fractured societies, completely different lifestyles depending on which suburb you're in. That's good? I don't think so.


One Nation says that too, Alevine. So does FD's SustainBility Party - the program that aims to eradicate tinted inbred retards.

They may have merged into One Nation by now, I'm not sure. FD should be able to inform us.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #319 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 7:30am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:40am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:14am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 3:47am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?

Everything has to do with tinted with you, Karnal. Why are you so obsessed about people's skins? 

Of course I don't mean conservative muslims are terrorists. Terrorists tend to be jihadists. Conservative muslims are people who, at the presnet moment, tend to believe the illiberal Islam version that is plaguing the Islamic world.  And I'm glad you mention the Greek community and the Vietnamese community.  For one, the numbers of people, as mothra likes to always tell us, are not nearly the same within the world.  Nor is the extremity in views held.  I would also say that while things are definitely better than they used to be, at least in melbourne there is still segregation within communities and the vietnamese very much so tend to still live amongst other vietnamese.  Now, you might think that's a wonderful thing because you can get wonderful Pho and Bahn Mi, but I'd say that's actually bad for both the Vietnamese people, and the wider community. Proper multiculturam isn't about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi in one specific area of Melbourne. It's about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi absolutely everywhere, and mixed amongst other great foods etc etc etc.


You haven't seen Luke Nguyen on the Tele? He's made Vietnamese food famous around the world, via Australia. His restaurant in Surry Hills pioneered Vietnamese/European fusion. This even caught on in Vietnam.

It's now old hat, so to speak.

I must say though, I'm a tad surprised you've now turned your back on multiculturalism. You were a fervent admirer back in the day. Would you like to say what really happened?

Imagine the old Alevine reading his Hansonesque views of today. You would have chased yourself around for pages. Seriously, what changed?


Im not against multiculturism.  I'm against multiculturism in its current form.  Why? Because unfortunately it doesn't work, and its surface based too.

Hey, if we could have integration programs in place that ensure conservative Muslims part ways with their illiberal views then I'm all for it.  But as it stands what's going to happen?  Segregated communities, fractured societies, completely different lifestyles depending on which suburb you're in. That's good? I don't think so.


One Nation says that too, Alevine. So does FD's SustainBility Party - the program that aims to eradicate tinted inbred retards.

They may have merged into One Nation by now, I'm not sure. FD should be able to inform us.


Identity politics now, karnal?  Another typical regressive left characteristic.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #320 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 7:46am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 7:30am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:40am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:14am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 3:47am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?

Everything has to do with tinted with you, Karnal. Why are you so obsessed about people's skins? 

Of course I don't mean conservative muslims are terrorists. Terrorists tend to be jihadists. Conservative muslims are people who, at the presnet moment, tend to believe the illiberal Islam version that is plaguing the Islamic world.  And I'm glad you mention the Greek community and the Vietnamese community.  For one, the numbers of people, as mothra likes to always tell us, are not nearly the same within the world.  Nor is the extremity in views held.  I would also say that while things are definitely better than they used to be, at least in melbourne there is still segregation within communities and the vietnamese very much so tend to still live amongst other vietnamese.  Now, you might think that's a wonderful thing because you can get wonderful Pho and Bahn Mi, but I'd say that's actually bad for both the Vietnamese people, and the wider community. Proper multiculturam isn't about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi in one specific area of Melbourne. It's about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi absolutely everywhere, and mixed amongst other great foods etc etc etc.


You haven't seen Luke Nguyen on the Tele? He's made Vietnamese food famous around the world, via Australia. His restaurant in Surry Hills pioneered Vietnamese/European fusion. This even caught on in Vietnam.

It's now old hat, so to speak.

I must say though, I'm a tad surprised you've now turned your back on multiculturalism. You were a fervent admirer back in the day. Would you like to say what really happened?

Imagine the old Alevine reading his Hansonesque views of today. You would have chased yourself around for pages. Seriously, what changed?


Im not against multiculturism.  I'm against multiculturism in its current form.  Why? Because unfortunately it doesn't work, and its surface based too.

Hey, if we could have integration programs in place that ensure conservative Muslims part ways with their illiberal views then I'm all for it.  But as it stands what's going to happen?  Segregated communities, fractured societies, completely different lifestyles depending on which suburb you're in. That's good? I don't think so.


One Nation says that too, Alevine. So does FD's SustainBility Party - the program that aims to eradicate tinted inbred retards.

They may have merged into One Nation by now, I'm not sure. FD should be able to inform us.


Identity politics now, karnal?  Another typical regressive left characteristic.


Pauline says that too, Alevine. "Identity politics".

I think she got it off Andrew Bolt. You?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #321 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:38pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 7:46am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 7:30am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:40am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:14am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 3:47am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:39pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
Sorry, Alevine, I didn't see your post. It's good that you are keen to stay and chat.

So you don't mean terrorism, then we agree. But I'm a bit confused about the democracy part. Are you referring to Muslims breeding conservatives who will take over the government?

The Greeks didn't do that, unless you count Nick Xenaphon. The Chows didn't do it either, unless you mean butch leftards like Penny Wong. We already have two Muslims in parliament, and they're both leftards too.

What do you mean by a fractured society?

Shurely you don't mean tinted?

Everything has to do with tinted with you, Karnal. Why are you so obsessed about people's skins? 

Of course I don't mean conservative muslims are terrorists. Terrorists tend to be jihadists. Conservative muslims are people who, at the presnet moment, tend to believe the illiberal Islam version that is plaguing the Islamic world.  And I'm glad you mention the Greek community and the Vietnamese community.  For one, the numbers of people, as mothra likes to always tell us, are not nearly the same within the world.  Nor is the extremity in views held.  I would also say that while things are definitely better than they used to be, at least in melbourne there is still segregation within communities and the vietnamese very much so tend to still live amongst other vietnamese.  Now, you might think that's a wonderful thing because you can get wonderful Pho and Bahn Mi, but I'd say that's actually bad for both the Vietnamese people, and the wider community. Proper multiculturam isn't about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi in one specific area of Melbourne. It's about having an abundance of good Bahn Mi absolutely everywhere, and mixed amongst other great foods etc etc etc.


You haven't seen Luke Nguyen on the Tele? He's made Vietnamese food famous around the world, via Australia. His restaurant in Surry Hills pioneered Vietnamese/European fusion. This even caught on in Vietnam.

It's now old hat, so to speak.

I must say though, I'm a tad surprised you've now turned your back on multiculturalism. You were a fervent admirer back in the day. Would you like to say what really happened?

Imagine the old Alevine reading his Hansonesque views of today. You would have chased yourself around for pages. Seriously, what changed?


Im not against multiculturism.  I'm against multiculturism in its current form.  Why? Because unfortunately it doesn't work, and its surface based too.

Hey, if we could have integration programs in place that ensure conservative Muslims part ways with their illiberal views then I'm all for it.  But as it stands what's going to happen?  Segregated communities, fractured societies, completely different lifestyles depending on which suburb you're in. That's good? I don't think so.


One Nation says that too, Alevine. So does FD's SustainBility Party - the program that aims to eradicate tinted inbred retards.

They may have merged into One Nation by now, I'm not sure. FD should be able to inform us.


Identity politics now, karnal?  Another typical regressive left characteristic.


Pauline says that too, Alevine. "Identity politics".

I think she got it off Andrew Bolt. You?


If Pauline Hanson is concerned about identity politics then I agree with her.

Let's see how many times you can cut and rearrange to make it look like I'm a Pauline Hanson voter Wink. Dishonest. Why do you feel you need to be dishonest, karnal? Is your argument so lacking?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #322 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:46pm
 
'Identity politics' - a fabrication of the right - has become the new catchphrase to replace the old "political correctness gone mad".
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #323 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:52pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
'Identity politics' - a fabrication of the right - has become the new catchphrase to replace the old "political correctness gone mad".


Looks like we've found ourselves a gen-u-wine reactionary here, G. Bolt/John Howard references, Pauline, "fragmentation".

Not that that there's anything wrong with that, but why do you think he hides it so? 

Now I know why FD doesn't answer questions.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #324 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
'Identity politics' - a fabrication of the right - has become the new catchphrase to replace the old "political correctness gone mad".

Now who's being ironic?

Actually, identity politics is not a fabrication of the right.  Would you not agree that that there is a problem when we are told to agree with a specific argument on the basis of whether we believe we are liberal or conservative? Being one or the other does not define my position on every single issue, and every issue deserves to be assessed based on rationale and facts, not based on whether I would therefore agree with Barack Obama or Donald trump.  Similarly, agreeing with a person on one issue does not mean I agree with everything from that person. "a rascist worries about identity politics therefore if you worry about identity politics you too must be a rascist" is NOT a valid argument, ever.  Same as saying that because I support a basic income therefore I must be a socialist therefore I must love Stalin, is NOT a valid argument, ever.  Similar, in part, to someone saying, "Gandalf is a Muslim therefore he must agree with ISIS is NOT a valid argument, ever. 

All of this just further demonstrates karnals dishonesty.  But then, we all know how dishonest he is.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #325 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:34pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:52pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
'Identity politics' - a fabrication of the right - has become the new catchphrase to replace the old "political correctness gone mad".


Looks like we've found ourselves a gen-u-wine reactionary here, G. Bolt/John Howard references, Pauline, "fragmentation".

Not that that there's anything wrong with that, but why do you think he hides it so? 

Now I know why FD doesn't answer questions.

Hide what, dear? If Pauline Hanson or Howard or bolt talk about multiculturism how i do then we agree on this one particular issue. Do I also agree with them on how to resolve the issue?  Tell me, dear, you seem to know who said what when. 

A person sharing a view does not invalidate that view. What I'm more interested in is why you would try and shame someone rather than argue the actual issue?  I'd like to hear more anecdotes from you about famous Vietnamese chefs. Your hollow arguments are always really fun to read.
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« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:42pm by sir prince duke alevine »  

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #326 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:36pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:34pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:52pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
'Identity politics' - a fabrication of the right - has become the new catchphrase to replace the old "political correctness gone mad".


Looks like we've found ourselves a gen-u-wine reactionary here, G. Bolt/John Howard references, Pauline, "fragmentation".

Not that that there's anything wrong with that, but why do you think he hides it so? 

Now I know why FD doesn't answer questions.

Hide what, dear? If Pauline Hanson or Howard or bolt talk about multiculturism how i do then we agree on this one particular issue. .


Ah.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #327 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:36pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:34pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:52pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 4:46pm:
'Identity politics' - a fabrication of the right - has become the new catchphrase to replace the old "political correctness gone mad".


Looks like we've found ourselves a gen-u-wine reactionary here, G. Bolt/John Howard references, Pauline, "fragmentation".

Not that that there's anything wrong with that, but why do you think he hides it so? 

Now I know why FD doesn't answer questions.

Hide what, dear? If Pauline Hanson or Howard or bolt talk about multiculturism how i do then we agree on this one particular issue. .


Ah.

No more Vietnamese chefs to talk about, dishonest?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #328 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:53pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
Similar, in part, to someone saying, "Gandalf is a Muslim therefore he must agree with ISIS is NOT a valid argument, ever. 


Well its nice to hear you say that. Actually, the arguments that we do hear surrounding Gandalf and ISIS are instructive here. They range from "Gandalf is a muslim therefore must agree with ISIS" to "Gandalf disagrees with ISIS not over fundamental ideology, but over end game strategies" (or in other words, ISIS to Gandalf is nothing more than a PR embarrassment).

But what it does highlight, interestingly, is how much the people who attack me here rely on identity politics to sustain their attacks. Indeed their understanding of Islam itself is as a political ideology. For them, the idea that a muslim can exist with an identity outside their 'hive mind' ISIS-like stereotype, all as one mind to establish the caliphate and destroy all non-muslims - is unfathomable. To them, individual muslims differ only in the type of strategy they want to employ to kill all non-muslims. So getting back to the point, there is obviously no scope for any muslim to believe in peace and coexistence with non-muslims, no scope for any muslim to be trully morally outraged by terrorism, support gay rights etc etc. In fact its difficult to think of a more stark example where identity politics is employed - than the attacks you see here against muslims.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #329 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:55pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:53pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
Similar, in part, to someone saying, "Gandalf is a Muslim therefore he must agree with ISIS is NOT a valid argument, ever. 


Well its nice to hear you say that. Actually, the arguments that we do hear surrounding Gandalf and ISIS are instructive here. They range from "Gandalf is a muslim therefore must agree with ISIS" to "Gandalf disagrees with ISIS not over fundamental ideology, but over end game strategies" (or in other words, ISIS to Gandalf is nothing more than a PR embarrassment).

But what it does highlight, interestingly, is how much the people who attack me here rely on identity politics to sustain their attacks. Indeed their understanding of Islam itself is as a political ideology. For them, the idea that a muslim can exist with an identity outside their 'hive mind' ISIS-like stereotype, all as one mind to establish the caliphate and destroy all non-muslims - is unfathomable. To them, individual muslims differ only in the type of strategy they want to employ to kill all non-muslims. So getting back to the point, there is obviously no scope for any muslim to believe in peace and coexistence with non-muslims, no scope for any muslim to be trully morally outraged by terrorism, support gay rights etc etc. In fact its difficult to think of a more stark example where identity politics is employed - than the attacks you see here against muslims.



In 1786 Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to call on Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman. They asked him by what right he extorted money and took slaves. As Jefferson later reported to Secretary of State John Jay, and to the Congress:

The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.



Have the Koran and the Laws of the Prophet changed since then?

No.
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #330 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 7:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:53pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 5:28pm:
Similar, in part, to someone saying, "Gandalf is a Muslim therefore he must agree with ISIS is NOT a valid argument, ever. 


Well its nice to hear you say that. Actually, the arguments that we do hear surrounding Gandalf and ISIS are instructive here. They range from "Gandalf is a muslim therefore must agree with ISIS" to "Gandalf disagrees with ISIS not over fundamental ideology, but over end game strategies" (or in other words, ISIS to Gandalf is nothing more than a PR embarrassment).

But what it does highlight, interestingly, is how much the people who attack me here rely on identity politics to sustain their attacks. Indeed their understanding of Islam itself is as a political ideology. For them, the idea that a muslim can exist with an identity outside their 'hive mind' ISIS-like stereotype, all as one mind to establish the caliphate and destroy all non-muslims - is unfathomable. To them, individual muslims differ only in the type of strategy they want to employ to kill all non-muslims. So getting back to the point, there is obviously no scope for any muslim to believe in peace and coexistence with non-muslims, no scope for any muslim to be trully morally outraged by terrorism, support gay rights etc etc. In fact its difficult to think of a more stark example where identity politics is employed - than the attacks you see here against muslims.


Ok, so I guess you understand best out of all of us why it is not good for someone like Karnal to try and attribute me to supporting all of Pauline Hanson's views just because I happen to have a similar opinion on a particular issue?  So Identity politics isn't a made up right wing catchphrase. In fact, it's a massive problem that's completely degrading debate in the western world.  Hence why we have the Trumpettes who can't possibly see anything wrong with what Trump does and says. Or how we have the Hillary's, who still can't fathom that perhaps some of her political positions cost her the election.

Once again Karnal shows how dishonest he is. Sad

I will say that it is never acceptable to pigeonhole an individual without first understanding their actual opinion, as of course, just because a person may define themselves as a 'conservative muslim' does not mean THAT person believes all apostates should be killed. But, talking about an opinion that is generally attributed to a group is not the same thing. Something mothra can't seem to comprehend.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #331 - Sep 8th, 2017 at 8:49pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:53pm:
For them, the idea that a muslim can exist with an identity outside their 'hive mind' ISIS-like stereotype, all as one mind to establish the caliphate and destroy all non-muslims - is unfathomable. To them, individual muslims differ only in the type of strategy they want to employ to kill all non-muslims.


Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #332 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 5:16pm
 
If not racism, Islam-inspired bigoted collectivism:

freediver wrote on Sep 14th, 2017 at 4:31pm:
Muslims were violent and barbaric conquerers and slave traders right up until the west put and end to it. It was several wars by European powers and America that finally put an end to it by destroying the slave ports and then going in and interfering further to put an end to the slave trade. The "ridiculous things you probably believe" here is that this is a reflection of the intent of Islam or Muslims. It is not. We had to kill a lot of Muslims to stop them industrialising rape as a tool to spread their religion, and the job is not over.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #333 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 9:49pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 8:49pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 8th, 2017 at 6:53pm:
For them, the idea that a muslim can exist with an identity outside their 'hive mind' ISIS-like stereotype, all as one mind to establish the caliphate and destroy all non-muslims - is unfathomable. To them, individual muslims differ only in the type of strategy they want to employ to kill all non-muslims.


Do you believe muslims today are a mindless collective?

The ones that accept the Koran as god's  final, eternal and unalterable revelation ARE mindless. No other word for it. You can't  believe such a thing and claim to be mindful. It's  like Mothra claiming to be a critical thinker.

Ridiculous may be another word.   Ludicrous? Eyewateringly, unbelieavably retarded?  Getoutatown stoopid.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #334 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 8:39am
 
Gandalf thinks the question is so stupid it cannot possibly be answered, except when he asks it. Only the early Muslims and the Arabs and the victims of Muhammad's genocide were mindless collectives. Obvious, isn't it?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #335 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 12:52pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 8:39am:
Gandalf thinks the question is so stupid it cannot possibly be answered, except when he asks it.


I ask you FD because of the unbelievably stupid and bigoted things you say that equate muslims to a mindless collective. Here's an example:

Quote:
Muslims were violent and barbaric conquerers and slave traders right up until the west put and end to it. It was several wars by European powers and America that finally put an end to it by destroying the slave ports and then going in and interfering further to put an end to the slave trade. The "ridiculous things you probably believe" here is that this is a reflection of the intent of Islam or Muslims. It is not. We had to kill a lot of Muslims to stop them industrialising rape as a tool to spread their religion, and the job is not over.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #336 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 1:56pm
 
Are you now saying the question itself is not too stupid to answer Gandalf?

Do you consider modern Muslims to be a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #337 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 4:09pm
 
The idea that 1.5 billion people from all corners and all cultures of the globe could be a "mindless collective" is obviously absurd. That, by the way and in case its still not bleeding obvious to you, is me answering the question. Yet just because the idea is absurd, doesn't mean that you agree - and just about everything you say about muslims, which I must say is becoming more and more shrill and unhinged - suggests you don't think its absurd.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #338 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:06pm
 
Just because it is absurd does not mean Muslims don't think it Gandalf.

When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #339 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:06pm:
Just because it is absurd does not mean Muslims don't think it Gandalf.


Indeed. Just like you do.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #340 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:47pm
 
When did Muslims stop being a mindless collective?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #341 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:48pm
 
would you like it rounded to the nearest minute - or will the month and year do?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #342 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:04pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 4:09pm:
The idea that 1.5 billion people from all corners and all cultures of the globe could be a "mindless collective" is obviously absurd. That, by the way and in case its still not bleeding obvious to you, is me answering the question. Yet just because the idea is absurd, doesn't mean that you agree - and just about everything you say about muslims, which I must say is becoming more and more shrill and unhinged - suggests you don't think its absurd.



The obvious absurdity is due to the fact that not all 1.5 billion nominally Muslim people believe in Islam and Mohammed's example.  But if you said, " Are all the people of the globe who believe the Koran and Mohammed a mindless collective", then the answer must be yes.

You cannot possibly accept the Koran as an eternal text and that Mohammed as anything but a fraud. Mohammed's claim to prophethood is thee Koran. The Koran is a gigantic joke, a compilation of disjointed, constantly self-contradictory mish-mash. You must be of the 'mindless collective' to submit to it.

The best of the Muslims, the Ahmadiyyads, are as deluded as the rest but at least they want to do NO HARM. Unlike the others.  Islam has been the enemy of the West from the very start. Islam is a reaction to the 'West' (Christianity). It tried to be the new Christianity, the new Jewish covenant displacing Christianity, When the Jews laughed at Mohammed, he turned murderous. SO now Muslims are seething against the Jews (as 'revealed' in the Koran, Grin Grin Grin) and the 'mindless collective' (42% of Muslims are illiterate) are demanding that their dark stupidity be respected.

Do something about Muslim illiteracy so Muslims will NOT be such a 'mindless collective'. How about that?

That 42% masks the reality of FEMALE ILLITERACY among Muslims. You put them in black sacks, you keep them illiterate, you fear and loath them - and then you ask your stupid beards and pajamas to be respected!!! No wonder you are known as the 'mindless, stupid frikken kollective'.







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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #343 - Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:21pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:48pm:
would you like it rounded to the nearest minute - or will the month and year do?

Stop Muslim terrorism, Gandalf.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #344 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 8:50am
 
Frank wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 10:04pm:
if you said, " Are all the people of the globe who believe the Koran and Mohammed a mindless collective", then the answer must be yes.


FD do you agree?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #345 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 8:59am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 15th, 2017 at 7:48pm:
would you like it rounded to the nearest minute - or will the month and year do?


Keep tapdancing Gandalf.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #346 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 9:04am
 
I'm just not sure how you answer a question like "when did they stop being a mindless collective".

Do you actually think I have a date in mind?

My answer is they stopped being a mindless collective sometime between being a tiny backward bedouin tribe in the desert of Arabia and becoming an entire civilization reaching all parts of the globe.

Roughly between the years 600-1000AD. Is that specific enough for you?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #347 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 9:25am
 
Was Muhammad even around in 600?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #348 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 8:32am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23rd, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:13am:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Quote:
Now try again, and this time try and forget about white and black men.


You brought it up Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 3:34pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 12:32pm:
even though they basically discovered it because they were trying to get away from 'friendly Muslimns'?


Spanish conquistadors fresh from ethnically cleansing Spain of muslims and jews - raped and pillaged America because they trying to get away from muslims now were they? Or late 19th century Belgium - running away from big bad muslims, just happened to run into Congo - and thought 'hey what the hell, now we're here - we may as well rape and pillage the place'. Flay around aimlessly some more FD, its getting hilarious.


Do you really not know this Gandalf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Under the Mongol Empire's hegemony over Asia (the Pax Mongolica, or Mongol peace), Europeans had long enjoyed a safe land passage, the Silk Road, to the Indies (then construed roughly as all of south and east Asia) and China, which were sources of valuable goods such as spices and silk. With the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the land route to Asia became much more difficult and dangerous. Portuguese navigators tried to find a sea way to Asia.


So your argument goes - while the Spanish were trying to avoid the muslims to find a way to Asia, they instead stumbled upon the Americas....


Quote:
I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:
you are not making any coherent point here homo

Take whatever scenario you like - it still doesn't alter the essential point: the Spanish gave Indians the sniffles/small pox, whatever - because they invaded their land in order to rape and pillage it. I don't have to brush up on my biology to know that.



polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:55am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:01am:
It's a tough case to prove, so FD just makes stuff up.


To be fair, he also relies heavilly on the most extraordinarily absurd leaps in logic. From the top of my head just in recent discussions:

- criticising Europeans for killing millions during the colonial period - must be racist, cause you know, European='white' race, and I'm not blaming blacks or muslims

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #349 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 8:39am
 
Gandalf where did you get this nonsense from? Did you make up the bit about the Spanish discovering the Americas because they had run out of Muslims to rape and pillage? Or do you hear this stuff at your mosque?

If a white supremacist started blaming Africans for the AIDS virus, but insisted he was talking about a geographical or cultural rather than racial grouping, would you defend him from charges of racism? Or does this trick only work for Muslims? Do you feel like your Imam has cleverly tricked you into sprouting racist propaganda online (again), or do you not realise what happened?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #350 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm
 
Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:28am:
Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 9:47am:
freediver wrote on Oct 26th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
Were the Europeans responsible for disease, famine and falling birth rate?

European diseases like small pox? - obviously. Particularly when they were spread deliberately.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 25th, 2017 at 8:45am:
- would you care to hazard a guess as to how many millions of native Indians were slaughtered by European imperialists In South, Central and North America combined? I think we can safely assume it runs into the millions.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 12:36pm:
Are you also holding Europeans accountable for the cases that were not deliberate?


Yes. The diseases didn't spread because of some benign, innocent non-disruptive contact with the natives. They spread because the imperialistic Europeans barged in uninvited to rape and pillage and make slaves. But please, feel free to demonstrate your ability in spin and give us a jolly yarn about how imperialists who invade in order to rape and pillage - are somehow not responsible for the decimating effects of the small pox and common cold viruses they bring along with them.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
By the way, you haven't answered my question - can you think of any other period in history where the actions of one power or civilization was responsible - indirectly and directly for so many deaths? You do agree that it runs into the millions right?


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 29th, 2017 at 6:45am:
Can you think of any other period in history where so many were killed as a result of the actions of one civilization/power?

Do you agree that native American populations wouldn't have been decimated by European diseases if the Europeans hadn't invaded them to rape and pillage their lands? A simple yes or no will suffice.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 6:40am:
If the second claim is about European colonial deaths being greater than at any time - there is no source, I stated this from the beginning. As I have said twice already, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:
Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:34am:
Do you at least concede that diseases that struck non-Europeans as a result of the Europeans invading, raping and pillaging their lands - are deaths as a result of European imperialism?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 5:12pm:
British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 10:15am:
I'm blaming Europeans for the deaths that were caused directly or indirectly by European colonialism.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #351 - Dec 23rd, 2017 at 3:32pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 8:39am:
  Do you feel like your Imam has cleverly tricked you into sprouting racist propaganda online (again), or do you not realise what happened?


Sometimes a question is just a question.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #352 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:40pm
 
My my FD's certainly in a bit of a state since I started not showing up regularly.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #353 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm
 
FD would you describe dismissing the genocide in the Congo Free State by King Leopold as nothing but a bit of bad weather and arab diseases as propaganda?

Do you think its the height of spineless apologism to excuse the Spanish invasion and rape of the Americas by saying 'anyhow, it was the muslims fault for trying to tax them on their way to Asia'?

Would you agree that you are taking the old 'Godwin's Law' idea to a whole new level of absurdity by screeching "WAAAAACIST" at the top of your voice whenever a muslim suggests that Europeans are to blame for slaughtering millions during the colonial period?

In your more calm and lucid moments, would you agree that in this little hysterical outburst you've been even more unhinged than normal?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #354 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:40pm:
My my FD's certainly in a bit of a state since I started not showing up regularly.


Should FD get another muslim like Abu to moderate the Islam section?

Wink
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #355 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 2:11pm
 
Oops FD, looks like you missed this one in your quote bomb:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:03pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:16pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 7:17pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 7:05pm:
you blaming white people for diseases


I blame people for spreading disease while they rape and pillage. That is a no-brainer FD, which even you would agree with. How could you not? You can't, you know I'm simply saying common sense, and you don't even bother trying to refute the actual point. So naturally when you can't win the actual debate, you pull the wacist card.


You blame groups of people. You can call them races. Even if they are actually trying to get around those 'friendly Muslims' to establish trade routes rather than raping and pillaging.


FD can you bring yourself to acknowledge that rape and pillage and enslavement occurred as part of such innocent and benign attempts to "establish trade routes" - and millions died as a result? Are you actually incapable of acknowledging this? Are you still blaming 8 million dead in the Congo Free State on a bit of bad weather and Arab diseases - or do you agree now that was incredibly stupid?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #356 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 5:28pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
FD would you describe dismissing the genocide in the Congo Free State by King Leopold as nothing but a bit of bad weather and arab diseases as propaganda?

Do you think its the height of spineless apologism to excuse the Spanish invasion and rape of the Americas by saying 'anyhow, it was the muslims fault for trying to tax them on their way to Asia'?

Would you agree that you are taking the old 'Godwin's Law' idea to a whole new level of absurdity by screeching "WAAAAACIST" at the top of your voice whenever a muslim suggests that Europeans are to blame for slaughtering millions during the colonial period?

In your more calm and lucid moments, would you agree that in this little hysterical outburst you've been even more unhinged than normal?


So calling you out on your blatant racist propaganda is now apologism for every past deed you want to associate with racial blame?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #357 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 6:54pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:40pm:
My my FD's certainly in a bit of a state since I started not showing up regularly.


Should FD get another muslim like Abu to moderate the Islam section?

Wink


Oh, FD's been longing for a Muslim like Abu for years.

Where can you find a jolly good bastard these days?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #358 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 6:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 5:28pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
FD would you describe dismissing the genocide in the Congo Free State by King Leopold as nothing but a bit of bad weather and arab diseases as propaganda?

Do you think its the height of spineless apologism to excuse the Spanish invasion and rape of the Americas by saying 'anyhow, it was the muslims fault for trying to tax them on their way to Asia'?

Would you agree that you are taking the old 'Godwin's Law' idea to a whole new level of absurdity by screeching "WAAAAACIST" at the top of your voice whenever a muslim suggests that Europeans are to blame for slaughtering millions during the colonial period?

In your more calm and lucid moments, would you agree that in this little hysterical outburst you've been even more unhinged than normal?


So calling you out on your blatant racist propaganda is now apologism for every past deed you want to associate with racial blame?


There's your answer, G. Bad weather. And wacism.

You're racist towards yourself, you see.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #359 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 8:57pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 6:54pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:40pm:
My my FD's certainly in a bit of a state since I started not showing up regularly.


Should FD get another muslim like Abu to moderate the Islam section?

Wink


Oh, FD's been longing for a Muslim like Abu for years.

Where can you find a jolly good bastard these days?

Rack off shite-eater.   There's a Turdy McTurdface up Bwian, go there and miam-miam, all yours,  there a good Paki arse bandit. Here's 10 rupee for ya, run along. Follow the smell like you always do. 

Wait until you are called.






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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #360 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 9:29pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 6:54pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:40pm:
My my FD's certainly in a bit of a state since I started not showing up regularly.


Should FD get another muslim like Abu to moderate the Islam section?

Wink


Oh, FD's been longing for a Muslim like Abu for years.

Where can you find a jolly good bastard these days?


The Liberal Party?   Cool
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #361 - Jan 2nd, 2018 at 11:18pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 8:57pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 6:54pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:40pm:
My my FD's certainly in a bit of a state since I started not showing up regularly.


Should FD get another muslim like Abu to moderate the Islam section?

Wink


Oh, FD's been longing for a Muslim like Abu for years.

Where can you find a jolly good bastard these days?

Rack off shite-eater.   There's a Turdy McTurdface up Bwian, go there and miam-miam, all yours,  there a good Paki arse bandit. Here's 10 rupee for ya, run along. Follow the smell like you always do. 

Wait until you are called.








... But you'll fight to the death for our right to say it, no?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #362 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 8:53am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 5:28pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 2nd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
FD would you describe dismissing the genocide in the Congo Free State by King Leopold as nothing but a bit of bad weather and arab diseases as propaganda?

Do you think its the height of spineless apologism to excuse the Spanish invasion and rape of the Americas by saying 'anyhow, it was the muslims fault for trying to tax them on their way to Asia'?

Would you agree that you are taking the old 'Godwin's Law' idea to a whole new level of absurdity by screeching "WAAAAACIST" at the top of your voice whenever a muslim suggests that Europeans are to blame for slaughtering millions during the colonial period?

In your more calm and lucid moments, would you agree that in this little hysterical outburst you've been even more unhinged than normal?


So calling you out on your blatant racist propaganda is now apologism for every past deed you want to associate with racial blame?


FD, can you just confirm for us all that you consider saying that the Europeans raped and pillaged the Americas during the colonial period and killed millions in the process is "blatant racist propaganda"? Just so we're clear here.

Or perhaps you are getting confused with some words that you tried to shove down my mouth. You tend to do that a bit.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #363 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 8:56am
 
Here it is again for you Gandalf.

freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 8:32am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23rd, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:13am:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Quote:
Now try again, and this time try and forget about white and black men.


You brought it up Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 3:34pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 12:32pm:
even though they basically discovered it because they were trying to get away from 'friendly Muslimns'?


Spanish conquistadors fresh from ethnically cleansing Spain of muslims and jews - raped and pillaged America because they trying to get away from muslims now were they? Or late 19th century Belgium - running away from big bad muslims, just happened to run into Congo - and thought 'hey what the hell, now we're here - we may as well rape and pillage the place'. Flay around aimlessly some more FD, its getting hilarious.


Do you really not know this Gandalf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Under the Mongol Empire's hegemony over Asia (the Pax Mongolica, or Mongol peace), Europeans had long enjoyed a safe land passage, the Silk Road, to the Indies (then construed roughly as all of south and east Asia) and China, which were sources of valuable goods such as spices and silk. With the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the land route to Asia became much more difficult and dangerous. Portuguese navigators tried to find a sea way to Asia.


So your argument goes - while the Spanish were trying to avoid the muslims to find a way to Asia, they instead stumbled upon the Americas....


Quote:
I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:
you are not making any coherent point here homo

Take whatever scenario you like - it still doesn't alter the essential point: the Spanish gave Indians the sniffles/small pox, whatever - because they invaded their land in order to rape and pillage it. I don't have to brush up on my biology to know that.



polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:55am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:01am:
It's a tough case to prove, so FD just makes stuff up.


To be fair, he also relies heavilly on the most extraordinarily absurd leaps in logic. From the top of my head just in recent discussions:

- criticising Europeans for killing millions during the colonial period - must be racist, cause you know, European='white' race, and I'm not blaming blacks or muslims


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #364 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 8:56am
 
But wait, there's more!

freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm:
Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:28am:
Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 9:47am:
freediver wrote on Oct 26th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
Were the Europeans responsible for disease, famine and falling birth rate?

European diseases like small pox? - obviously. Particularly when they were spread deliberately.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 25th, 2017 at 8:45am:
- would you care to hazard a guess as to how many millions of native Indians were slaughtered by European imperialists In South, Central and North America combined? I think we can safely assume it runs into the millions.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 12:36pm:
Are you also holding Europeans accountable for the cases that were not deliberate?


Yes. The diseases didn't spread because of some benign, innocent non-disruptive contact with the natives. They spread because the imperialistic Europeans barged in uninvited to rape and pillage and make slaves. But please, feel free to demonstrate your ability in spin and give us a jolly yarn about how imperialists who invade in order to rape and pillage - are somehow not responsible for the decimating effects of the small pox and common cold viruses they bring along with them.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
By the way, you haven't answered my question - can you think of any other period in history where the actions of one power or civilization was responsible - indirectly and directly for so many deaths? You do agree that it runs into the millions right?


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 29th, 2017 at 6:45am:
Can you think of any other period in history where so many were killed as a result of the actions of one civilization/power?

Do you agree that native American populations wouldn't have been decimated by European diseases if the Europeans hadn't invaded them to rape and pillage their lands? A simple yes or no will suffice.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 6:40am:
If the second claim is about European colonial deaths being greater than at any time - there is no source, I stated this from the beginning. As I have said twice already, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:
Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:34am:
Do you at least concede that diseases that struck non-Europeans as a result of the Europeans invading, raping and pillaging their lands - are deaths as a result of European imperialism?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 5:12pm:
British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 10:15am:
I'm blaming Europeans for the deaths that were caused directly or indirectly by European colonialism.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #365 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:17am
 
Well, that clears that one up.

Anyone for taxes and sustainable fishing?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #366 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:30am
 
I guess you can't then.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #367 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:34am
 
OK FD, lets play it your way.

Can you confirm this is "blatant racist propaganda"?

My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

If so, would it stop being racist propaganda if I specified these people as being "black" or "muslim" or "arabs" or "[insert other non-white group]"?

Or would you agree that calling out rape and pillage and enslavement as bad and "blame-worthy" - irrespective of who does it, is just, you know, the common sense and decent thing to do?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #368 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 10:29am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:34am:
Or would you agree that calling out rape and pillage and enslavement as bad and "blame-worthy" - irrespective of who does it, is just, you know, the common sense and decent thing to do?


Excuse me, G, do you mean if a Muselman does it?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #369 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:37pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 9:34am:
OK FD, lets play it your way.

Can you confirm this is "blatant racist propaganda"?

My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

If so, would it stop being racist propaganda if I specified these people as being "black" or "muslim" or "arabs" or "[insert other non-white group]"?

Or would you agree that calling out rape and pillage and enslavement as bad and "blame-worthy" - irrespective of who does it, is just, you know, the common sense and decent thing to do?


Is blaming black people for 'black diseases' the common sense and decent thing to do?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #370 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:54pm
 
What are "black diseases" FD? If they spread any disease while raping - then yes, it is common sense and decency to blame them for it.

Do I need to go through the rapist infecting his victim with AIDS analogy again? You did get that one didn't you?

Tell me FD, is your problem with accepting that a rapist is responsible for the diseases they spread while raping - or that you deny the European conduct during the colonial period amounts to (metaphorical) raping?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #371 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 2:02pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:54pm:
What are "black diseases" FD? If they spread any disease while raping - then yes, it is common sense and decency to blame them for it.

Do I need to go through the rapist infecting his victim with AIDS analogy again? You did get that one didn't you?

Tell me FD, is your problem with accepting that a rapist is responsible for the diseases they spread while raping - or that you deny the European conduct during the colonial period amounts to (metaphorical) raping?


You are doing the opposite Gandalf. You are blaming races for diseases, not rapists, and you justify this with convenient little lies about what initially motivated Europeans to travel west.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #372 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 2:18pm
 
So because the topic is about the unprecedented raping the Europeans did, and me calling out your apologism of said raping - its racist. Sorry wacist.

Have another go at my question FD:

Can you confirm this is "blatant racist propaganda"?

My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Or do you concede that it is simple common bloody sense?

Can you confirm either a) you don't believe a rapist is responsible for spreading diseases he doesn't know he has and/or b) the unprecedented slaughter that happened under European colonialism doesn't amount to (metaphorical) rape?

Come on FD, stop ducking and weaving - come out and own your idiocy.

freediver wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 2:02pm:
You are blaming races for diseases


Hillarious, even for you. I somehow miraculously did this without even talking about 'race' until you started shoving the word down my mouth. Even more hillarious when I have spent literally months on end pointing out how I don't even believe races exist. I can't even begin to fathom where you are getting this. Listen to yourself, seriously.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #373 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 3:38pm
 
I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #374 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 4:27pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 1:54pm:
What are "black diseases" FD?


Oh, that's easy. Retarded Negroid sub-breeds who squat down to piss and play with their dicks afterwards.

I.e, Islam.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #375 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 6:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:
I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.


Ah you must mean that when I say "Europeans" raped and pillaged the new world - I must necessarily be referring to an "entire race" - because you and Frank say "Europeans" are a race. And presumably, the use of a plural means every single one of them - right? Its all coming together.

I'll have to remember this little trick the next time you accuse "arabs" of doing something sinister. Lucky for you 'muslims' aren't a race eh FD? You can therefore say "muslims" do this and "muslims" do that to defame and demean an entire group of people all day long till your hearts content, and you can happily claim its not "the definition of racism" and therefore no problem at all - right?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #376 - Jan 3rd, 2018 at 7:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:
I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.



If statistics is good enough for 'climate science', why is it not good enough to judge cultures?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #377 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 7:44am
 
One more time for Gandalf:

freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 8:32am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23rd, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:13am:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Quote:
Now try again, and this time try and forget about white and black men.


You brought it up Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 3:34pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 12:32pm:
even though they basically discovered it because they were trying to get away from 'friendly Muslimns'?


Spanish conquistadors fresh from ethnically cleansing Spain of muslims and jews - raped and pillaged America because they trying to get away from muslims now were they? Or late 19th century Belgium - running away from big bad muslims, just happened to run into Congo - and thought 'hey what the hell, now we're here - we may as well rape and pillage the place'. Flay around aimlessly some more FD, its getting hilarious.


Do you really not know this Gandalf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Under the Mongol Empire's hegemony over Asia (the Pax Mongolica, or Mongol peace), Europeans had long enjoyed a safe land passage, the Silk Road, to the Indies (then construed roughly as all of south and east Asia) and China, which were sources of valuable goods such as spices and silk. With the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the land route to Asia became much more difficult and dangerous. Portuguese navigators tried to find a sea way to Asia.


So your argument goes - while the Spanish were trying to avoid the muslims to find a way to Asia, they instead stumbled upon the Americas....


Quote:
I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:
you are not making any coherent point here homo

Take whatever scenario you like - it still doesn't alter the essential point: the Spanish gave Indians the sniffles/small pox, whatever - because they invaded their land in order to rape and pillage it. I don't have to brush up on my biology to know that.



polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:55am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:01am:
It's a tough case to prove, so FD just makes stuff up.


To be fair, he also relies heavilly on the most extraordinarily absurd leaps in logic. From the top of my head just in recent discussions:

- criticising Europeans for killing millions during the colonial period - must be racist, cause you know, European='white' race, and I'm not blaming blacks or muslims


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #378 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 7:44am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm:
Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:28am:
Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 9:47am:
freediver wrote on Oct 26th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
Were the Europeans responsible for disease, famine and falling birth rate?

European diseases like small pox? - obviously. Particularly when they were spread deliberately.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 25th, 2017 at 8:45am:
- would you care to hazard a guess as to how many millions of native Indians were slaughtered by European imperialists In South, Central and North America combined? I think we can safely assume it runs into the millions.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 12:36pm:
Are you also holding Europeans accountable for the cases that were not deliberate?


Yes. The diseases didn't spread because of some benign, innocent non-disruptive contact with the natives. They spread because the imperialistic Europeans barged in uninvited to rape and pillage and make slaves. But please, feel free to demonstrate your ability in spin and give us a jolly yarn about how imperialists who invade in order to rape and pillage - are somehow not responsible for the decimating effects of the small pox and common cold viruses they bring along with them.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
By the way, you haven't answered my question - can you think of any other period in history where the actions of one power or civilization was responsible - indirectly and directly for so many deaths? You do agree that it runs into the millions right?


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 29th, 2017 at 6:45am:
Can you think of any other period in history where so many were killed as a result of the actions of one civilization/power?

Do you agree that native American populations wouldn't have been decimated by European diseases if the Europeans hadn't invaded them to rape and pillage their lands? A simple yes or no will suffice.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 6:40am:
If the second claim is about European colonial deaths being greater than at any time - there is no source, I stated this from the beginning. As I have said twice already, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:
Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:34am:
Do you at least concede that diseases that struck non-Europeans as a result of the Europeans invading, raping and pillaging their lands - are deaths as a result of European imperialism?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 5:12pm:
British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 10:15am:
I'm blaming Europeans for the deaths that were caused directly or indirectly by European colonialism.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #379 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 9:00am
 
I already asked about the first quote in that bomb FD, I specifically asked you to confirm that it is "blatant racist propaganda". If you can stop ducking and weaving from that, we can perhaps then get on to why that is so wacist. You never know, we may then be able to go on to the next one.

Its much easier to have an actual adult discussion that way instead of dumping two pages of quote bombs and saying "I rest my case" - wouldn't you agree?

Then again, I do concede this technique does make it easier if your only objective is to shout "WACIST" and abandon all pretense of actual discussion.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #380 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 10:03am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 7:44am:
Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.


I hope, FD, that you're not teaching any of your nonsense to impressionable children? We have enough trouble as it with leftist snowflakes kicking up a stink when they're criticized.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #381 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:01pm
 
Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism, so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #382 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:01pm:
Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism, so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.


Yes FD, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the principal 'rule of law', so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it 'arbitrary'.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #383 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:01pm:
Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism


Are you saying the first sentence isn't racist? Thats actually what I was asking by the way. You could have spared us the cryptic bullshit and simply answered "no".

So if it isn't racist, why then did you include it to prove my racism?

Quote:
so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.


No really I don't FD. The best you have come up with is that its racist to criticise European colonialism. Or more specifically, its racist because a muslim is criticising it. Thats literally all you've got.

Are you able to clearly point out and explain where I am racist - without bombing us with two entire pages of quotes - some of which apparently has nothing to do with racism? Or is really nothing more than this 5 year old logic: "Criticising Europeans?? GAAHHH WAAAACIST!!"
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #384 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 4:14pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:10pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 12:01pm:
Yes Gandalf, it is. Though as I recall, every time you seek clarification you leave out the racism


Are you saying the first sentence isn't racist? Thats actually what I was asking by the way. You could have spared us the cryptic bullshit and simply answered "no".

So if it isn't racist, why then did you include it to prove my racism?

Quote:
so I'm guessing you do actually know what makes it racist.


No really I don't FD. The best you have come up with is that its racist to criticise European colonialism. Or more specifically, its racist because a muslim is criticising it. Thats literally all you've got.

Are you able to clearly point out and explain where I am racist - without bombing us with two entire pages of quotes - some of which apparently has nothing to do with racism? Or is really nothing more than this 5 year old logic: "Criticising Europeans?? GAAHHH WAAAACIST!!"


Yes, G, but it might help to clarify which races you mean. Wogs, Dagos, Krauts, Frogs and Greaseballs - not racist.

Englishmen - racist.

Do you see now?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #385 - Jan 4th, 2018 at 4:35pm
 
Bertie wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 7:38pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:
I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.



If statistics is good enough for 'climate science', why is it not good enough to judge cultures?




Because climat science is ‘hard science’; culture is a soft science. Do you know the difference?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #386 - Jan 5th, 2018 at 6:29pm
 
Auggie wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 4:35pm:
Bertie wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 7:38pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 3rd, 2018 at 3:38pm:
I don't hold entire races responsible Gandalf. That's pretty much the definition of racism. Getting hysterical about what they did does not change the fact that you are being racist. And apparently you do not even realise it.



If statistics is good enough for 'climate science', why is it not good enough to judge cultures?




Because climat science is ‘hard science’; culture is a soft science. Do you know the difference?


Actually, I think anything that primarily rests on statistics is a soft science.
Neither climate science nor the social sciences have an understanding of the complete set of the variables they are dealing with nor an understanding of how they all hang together in a way, say, engineers or chemists do. The building will stand or it will fall, the paint will fade or it won't.

But since nobody quite knows what makes up the climate and how exactly they interact, people create statistical models - probabilities based on what they think might bee important. This works pretty well with weather forecasts - small-scale, often determined by big local features.

The global climate - or the 'soft sciences' - is therefore much easily influenced by  changing fashion and politics.  In the 70s it was all about global cooling and how viable socialism was.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #387 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 8:20am
 
FD???

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 1:10pm:
Are you able to clearly point out and explain where I am racist - without bombing us with two entire pages of quotes - some of which apparently has nothing to do with racism? Or is really nothing more than this 5 year old logic: "Criticising Europeans?? GAAHHH WAAAACIST!!"

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #388 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:09pm
 
I think you already know which bits are racist, which is why you always manage to leave out the racist bits when demanding I explain how what you say is racist.

Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #389 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
I think you already know which bits are racist, which is why you always manage to leave out the racist bits when demanding I explain how what you say is racist.


No really I don't FD. So if only some of that quote bomb is racist, then why couldn't you just post what was relevant - instead of spamming us with 2 pages of partly irrelevant quotes?

I was happy to go through it one quote at a time. Even though you are still dodging and weaving from my question, my reading between the lines leads me to assume the first quote is not racist - so shall we move on to the second?

Quote:
Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.


How about that FD? Blatant racism?

If you can give me a straight answer in under a week, that would be great - and then we can move on to the next one.

Or you could, you know, just dispense with the childish bullshit and simply explain clearly where I am racist amongst all that 2 pages.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #390 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tsk tsk FD - the boy who constantly shouts "liar" should be careful about what he accuses people of saying. Now run off and find the actual quote and learn how this is a big fat porky.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #391 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 1:10pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:42pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 12:09pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tsk tsk FD - the boy who constantly shouts "liar" should be careful about what he accuses people of saying. Now run off and find the actual quote and learn how this is a big fat porky.



Yes, but let's focus first on which are Arab diseases and which are Whitey's.

Arab: inbreeding maps, subnormal IQ levels and squatting down to piss and playing with your dick afterwards.

Whitey: freeeeedom, democracy and making the trains run on time.

Have I left anything out?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #392 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:42pm
 
Here you go Gandalf. Is this particular racism your own invention or do you share it with other Muslims? Also, what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'?

freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm:
Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:28am:
Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 9:47am:
freediver wrote on Oct 26th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
Were the Europeans responsible for disease, famine and falling birth rate?

European diseases like small pox? - obviously. Particularly when they were spread deliberately.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 25th, 2017 at 8:45am:
- would you care to hazard a guess as to how many millions of native Indians were slaughtered by European imperialists In South, Central and North America combined? I think we can safely assume it runs into the millions.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 12:36pm:
Are you also holding Europeans accountable for the cases that were not deliberate?


Yes. The diseases didn't spread because of some benign, innocent non-disruptive contact with the natives. They spread because the imperialistic Europeans barged in uninvited to rape and pillage and make slaves. But please, feel free to demonstrate your ability in spin and give us a jolly yarn about how imperialists who invade in order to rape and pillage - are somehow not responsible for the decimating effects of the small pox and common cold viruses they bring along with them.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
By the way, you haven't answered my question - can you think of any other period in history where the actions of one power or civilization was responsible - indirectly and directly for so many deaths? You do agree that it runs into the millions right?


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 29th, 2017 at 6:45am:
Can you think of any other period in history where so many were killed as a result of the actions of one civilization/power?

Do you agree that native American populations wouldn't have been decimated by European diseases if the Europeans hadn't invaded them to rape and pillage their lands? A simple yes or no will suffice.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 6:40am:
If the second claim is about European colonial deaths being greater than at any time - there is no source, I stated this from the beginning. As I have said twice already, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:
Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:34am:
Do you at least concede that diseases that struck non-Europeans as a result of the Europeans invading, raping and pillaging their lands - are deaths as a result of European imperialism?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 5:12pm:
British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 10:15am:
I'm blaming Europeans for the deaths that were caused directly or indirectly by European colonialism.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #393 - Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 4th, 2018 at 7:44am:
One more time for Gandalf:

freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 8:32am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23rd, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:13am:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Quote:
Now try again, and this time try and forget about white and black men.


You brought it up Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 3:34pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 12:32pm:
even though they basically discovered it because they were trying to get away from 'friendly Muslimns'?


Spanish conquistadors fresh from ethnically cleansing Spain of muslims and jews - raped and pillaged America because they trying to get away from muslims now were they? Or late 19th century Belgium - running away from big bad muslims, just happened to run into Congo - and thought 'hey what the hell, now we're here - we may as well rape and pillage the place'. Flay around aimlessly some more FD, its getting hilarious.


Do you really not know this Gandalf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Under the Mongol Empire's hegemony over Asia (the Pax Mongolica, or Mongol peace), Europeans had long enjoyed a safe land passage, the Silk Road, to the Indies (then construed roughly as all of south and east Asia) and China, which were sources of valuable goods such as spices and silk. With the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the land route to Asia became much more difficult and dangerous. Portuguese navigators tried to find a sea way to Asia.


So your argument goes - while the Spanish were trying to avoid the muslims to find a way to Asia, they instead stumbled upon the Americas....


Quote:
I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:
you are not making any coherent point here homo

Take whatever scenario you like - it still doesn't alter the essential point: the Spanish gave Indians the sniffles/small pox, whatever - because they invaded their land in order to rape and pillage it. I don't have to brush up on my biology to know that.



polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:55am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:01am:
It's a tough case to prove, so FD just makes stuff up.


To be fair, he also relies heavilly on the most extraordinarily absurd leaps in logic. From the top of my head just in recent discussions:

- criticising Europeans for killing millions during the colonial period - must be racist, cause you know, European='white' race, and I'm not blaming blacks or muslims



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #394 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:59am
 
Oh look, FD repeats the 2 page quote bomb again with no explanation.

We're up to sentence 2 FD - racist or not?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #395 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:01am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 8th, 2018 at 7:42pm:
Here you go Gandalf. Is this particular racism your own invention or do you share it with other Muslims? Also, what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'?

freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm:
Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

[quote author=gandalf link=1508378680/233#233 date=1510432122]Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.



(hint: I don't believe either 'Europeans' or 'Arabs' are a race.)

Does that help?

Besides, how is it racist against "Europeans" if I say the same for Arabs?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #396 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:06am
 
Poll added
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #397 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm
 
If a white supremacist declared that black people are not a race, would you defend them against accusations of racism? Or does this trick only work for Muslims?

Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #398 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky. Gosh you even found the correct quote, then merrily repeated the porky straight after.

Back to what I actually said - do you think a European is responsible for spreading a disease that he brought from Europe - lets call it a "European Disease" - while he rapes and pillages the new world?

Or if you prefer, do you think an Arab is responsible for spreading a disease he brings from Arabia - lets call it an "Arab disease" - while he rapes and pillages... say Europe?

Did you know moses blames the black death on muslim arabs? He posted an article that blamed arabs for about 50 million deaths - based on which diseases they supposedly spread (including the black death) during their conquests. I think its in this very thread. Blatant racism would you say?

tsk tsk oh dear, rolls eyes
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #399 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 4:49pm
 
How many black deaths were caused by the eunuch (total castration) process?

How many black deaths occurred by killing the babies of the black concubines?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #400 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:24pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky.


It's a question, not a statement.

If a white supremacist declared that black people are not a race, would you defend them against accusations of racism? Or does this trick only work for Muslims?

Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #401 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:53pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky.


It's a question, not a statement.

If a white supremacist declared that black people are not a race, would you defend them against accusations of racism? Or does this trick only work for Muslims?

Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


Will you answer a question, FD?

I'm curious.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #402 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:57pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky. Gosh you even found the correct quote, then merrily repeated the porky straight after.

Back to what I actually said - do you think a European is responsible for spreading a disease that he brought from Europe - lets call it a "European Disease" - while he rapes and pillages the new world?

Or if you prefer, do you think an Arab is responsible for spreading a disease he brings from Arabia - lets call it an "Arab disease" - while he rapes and pillages... say Europe?

Did you know moses blames the black death on muslim arabs? He posted an article that blamed arabs for about 50 million deaths - based on which diseases they supposedly spread (including the black death) during their conquests. I think its in this very thread. Blatant racism would you say?

tsk tsk oh dear, rolls eyes

Arabs - they are nobody's favourites. Did they spread the plague? They spread all sorts of undesirable things so maybe the plague as well. You need to refute the idea properly, not just dismiss it as 'racist'.



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #403 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:16pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky. Gosh you even found the correct quote, then merrily repeated the porky straight after.

Back to what I actually said - do you think a European is responsible for spreading a disease that he brought from Europe - lets call it a "European Disease" - while he rapes and pillages the new world?

Or if you prefer, do you think an Arab is responsible for spreading a disease he brings from Arabia - lets call it an "Arab disease" - while he rapes and pillages... say Europe?

Did you know moses blames the black death on muslim arabs? He posted an article that blamed arabs for about 50 million deaths - based on which diseases they supposedly spread (including the black death) during their conquests. I think its in this very thread. Blatant racism would you say?

tsk tsk oh dear, rolls eyes

Arabs - they are nobody's favourites. Did they spread the plague? They spread all sorts of undesirable things so maybe the plague as well. You need to refute the idea properly, not just dismiss it as 'racist'.





Let's ask FD.

FD, did Arabs spread the plague as a form of biological warfare?

Frank believes in correlation - and not causation.

Inferior culture, innit.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #404 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky. Gosh you even found the correct quote, then merrily repeated the porky straight after.

Back to what I actually said - do you think a European is responsible for spreading a disease that he brought from Europe - lets call it a "European Disease" - while he rapes and pillages the new world?

Or if you prefer, do you think an Arab is responsible for spreading a disease he brings from Arabia - lets call it an "Arab disease" - while he rapes and pillages... say Europe?

Did you know moses blames the black death on muslim arabs? He posted an article that blamed arabs for about 50 million deaths - based on which diseases they supposedly spread (including the black death) during their conquests. I think its in this very thread. Blatant racism would you say?

tsk tsk oh dear, rolls eyes

Arabs - they are nobody's favourites. Did they spread the plague? They spread all sorts of undesirable things so maybe the plague as well. You need to refute the idea properly, not just dismiss it as 'racist'.





Let's ask FD.

FD, did Arabs spread the plague as a form of biological warfare?

Frank believes in correlation - and not causation.

Inferior culture, innit.

Too much brown banana, Paki, you are hallucinating and making things up already.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #405 - Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:36pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 8:16pm:
Frank wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky. Gosh you even found the correct quote, then merrily repeated the porky straight after.

Back to what I actually said - do you think a European is responsible for spreading a disease that he brought from Europe - lets call it a "European Disease" - while he rapes and pillages the new world?

Or if you prefer, do you think an Arab is responsible for spreading a disease he brings from Arabia - lets call it an "Arab disease" - while he rapes and pillages... say Europe?

Did you know moses blames the black death on muslim arabs? He posted an article that blamed arabs for about 50 million deaths - based on which diseases they supposedly spread (including the black death) during their conquests. I think its in this very thread. Blatant racism would you say?

tsk tsk oh dear, rolls eyes

Arabs - they are nobody's favourites. Did they spread the plague? They spread all sorts of undesirable things so maybe the plague as well. You need to refute the idea properly, not just dismiss it as 'racist'.





Let's ask FD.

FD, did Arabs spread the plague as a form of biological warfare?

Frank believes in correlation - and not causation.

Inferior culture, innit.

Too much brown banana, Paki, you are hallucinating and making things up already.


You're right, old boy. Superior culture, innit.

Sorry about that.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #406 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:11am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky.


It's a question, not a statement.



Ah. My bad. Though it uncannily looks like you were attempting to mock something you pretended I said - but just posed it as a question to be a smart arse.

Not the case?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #407 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:15am
 
Frank wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky. Gosh you even found the correct quote, then merrily repeated the porky straight after.

Back to what I actually said - do you think a European is responsible for spreading a disease that he brought from Europe - lets call it a "European Disease" - while he rapes and pillages the new world?

Or if you prefer, do you think an Arab is responsible for spreading a disease he brings from Arabia - lets call it an "Arab disease" - while he rapes and pillages... say Europe?

Did you know moses blames the black death on muslim arabs? He posted an article that blamed arabs for about 50 million deaths - based on which diseases they supposedly spread (including the black death) during their conquests. I think its in this very thread. Blatant racism would you say?

tsk tsk oh dear, rolls eyes

Arabs - they are nobody's favourites. Did they spread the plague? They spread all sorts of undesirable things so maybe the plague as well. You need to refute the idea properly, not just dismiss it as 'racist'.


Not me dear boy - FD's the one screaming how racist it is to blame other "races" of spreading diseases. You should take it up with him.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #408 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:20am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:15am:
Frank wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky. Gosh you even found the correct quote, then merrily repeated the porky straight after.

Back to what I actually said - do you think a European is responsible for spreading a disease that he brought from Europe - lets call it a "European Disease" - while he rapes and pillages the new world?

Or if you prefer, do you think an Arab is responsible for spreading a disease he brings from Arabia - lets call it an "Arab disease" - while he rapes and pillages... say Europe?

Did you know moses blames the black death on muslim arabs? He posted an article that blamed arabs for about 50 million deaths - based on which diseases they supposedly spread (including the black death) during their conquests. I think its in this very thread. Blatant racism would you say?

tsk tsk oh dear, rolls eyes

Arabs - they are nobody's favourites. Did they spread the plague? They spread all sorts of undesirable things so maybe the plague as well. You need to refute the idea properly, not just dismiss it as 'racist'.


Not me dear boy - FD's the one screaming how racist it is to blame other "races" of spreading diseases. You should take it up with him.


Now now, G, you know full well FD's only screaming how racist it is to blame Whitey for spreading Musel diseases.

Stop lying.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #409 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:22pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:11am:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 7:24pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:54pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2018 at 12:18pm:
Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?


tut tut FD, I've already pointed out that statement is a porky.


It's a question, not a statement.



Ah. My bad. Though it uncannily looks like you were attempting to mock something you pretended I said - but just posed it as a question to be a smart arse.

Not the case?


No pretending Gandalf.

If a white supremacist declared that black people are not a race, would you defend them against accusations of racism? Or does this trick only work for Muslims?

Gandalf is it a common view among Muslims that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #410 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 1:16pm:
Oh look, a white Muslim sprouting anti-European racist propaganda, apparently unwittingly, and turning world history on it's head in order to do so. Gandalf I hope you aren't teaching any of this nonsense to impressionable children. We have enough trouble with Muslims driving on the footpath as it is.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 6:28am:
Arabs are responsible for diseases spread by Arabs, just like Europeans are responsible for diseases spread by Europeans.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 9:47am:
freediver wrote on Oct 26th, 2017 at 7:24pm:
Were the Europeans responsible for disease, famine and falling birth rate?

European diseases like small pox? - obviously. Particularly when they were spread deliberately.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 25th, 2017 at 8:45am:
- would you care to hazard a guess as to how many millions of native Indians were slaughtered by European imperialists In South, Central and North America combined? I think we can safely assume it runs into the millions.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 12:36pm:
Are you also holding Europeans accountable for the cases that were not deliberate?


Yes. The diseases didn't spread because of some benign, innocent non-disruptive contact with the natives. They spread because the imperialistic Europeans barged in uninvited to rape and pillage and make slaves. But please, feel free to demonstrate your ability in spin and give us a jolly yarn about how imperialists who invade in order to rape and pillage - are somehow not responsible for the decimating effects of the small pox and common cold viruses they bring along with them.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
By the way, you haven't answered my question - can you think of any other period in history where the actions of one power or civilization was responsible - indirectly and directly for so many deaths? You do agree that it runs into the millions right?


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 29th, 2017 at 6:45am:
Can you think of any other period in history where so many were killed as a result of the actions of one civilization/power?

Do you agree that native American populations wouldn't have been decimated by European diseases if the Europeans hadn't invaded them to rape and pillage their lands? A simple yes or no will suffice.


polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 6:40am:
If the second claim is about European colonial deaths being greater than at any time - there is no source, I stated this from the beginning. As I have said twice already, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 2nd, 2017 at 3:18pm:
Speaking of evasive, can you think of another period in history where so many people were killed by one civilization invading and raping and pillaging so many places?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 10:34am:
Do you at least concede that diseases that struck non-Europeans as a result of the Europeans invading, raping and pillaging their lands - are deaths as a result of European imperialism?


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 11:03am:
8 million estimated native Indians in South America. 2-13 million in Congo. Thats just for starters. How many North American Indians were wiped out? Arguably the greatest genocide in all of history, complete with small pox blankets. Africa - probably the most ravaged continent by Europeans of all - the devastating effects of which are only to evident to this very day. Oh but FD will say the diseases the Europeans spread while raping and pillaging were not deliberately spread, so its all good. No moral responsibility. He'll probably also try on the "wheres the source Gandalf" ruse for these figures, and once again "forget" that he's read and even quoted the wikipedia quotes that I posted. He'll then continue on with the "oh there's no exact total, sorry can't discuss it" copout. Apparently oblivious to the fact that undeniably entire continents were violently overtaken, and entire populations ethnically cleansed, and often annihilated - unlike in any other time in history. It is simply self-evident that European colonialism was the most disruptive, violent and devastating period for the most number of people, in the smallest period of time, in all of history. 


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 3rd, 2017 at 5:12pm:
British deliberate use of smallpox for biological warfare


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 13th, 2017 at 10:15am:
I'm blaming Europeans for the deaths that were caused directly or indirectly by European colonialism.



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #411 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 12:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 23rd, 2017 at 8:32am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
freediver wrote on Nov 21st, 2017 at 12:12pm:
Gandalf can you explain for us your theory on blaming racial groups for the spread of disease?


My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives.

Not to be confused with the scenario where diseases spread as a result of friendly traders making contact with natives in good faith and instigating trade based on mutual respect.


polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 23rd, 2017 at 3:46pm:
Lets start by not shoving words into my mouth for once. Where did this talk of "races" come from? I never mentioned them. You seem to be constructing some kind of strawman with it.

The whole of South and central America getting decimated by European disease when the Europeans came to rape and pillage and enslave the inhabitants - springs to mind as a case in point.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:13am:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Quote:
Now try again, and this time try and forget about white and black men.


You brought it up Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 3:34pm:
freediver wrote on Dec 21st, 2017 at 12:32pm:
even though they basically discovered it because they were trying to get away from 'friendly Muslimns'?


Spanish conquistadors fresh from ethnically cleansing Spain of muslims and jews - raped and pillaged America because they trying to get away from muslims now were they? Or late 19th century Belgium - running away from big bad muslims, just happened to run into Congo - and thought 'hey what the hell, now we're here - we may as well rape and pillage the place'. Flay around aimlessly some more FD, its getting hilarious.


Do you really not know this Gandalf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus

Under the Mongol Empire's hegemony over Asia (the Pax Mongolica, or Mongol peace), Europeans had long enjoyed a safe land passage, the Silk Road, to the Indies (then construed roughly as all of south and east Asia) and China, which were sources of valuable goods such as spices and silk. With the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the land route to Asia became much more difficult and dangerous. Portuguese navigators tried to find a sea way to Asia.


So your argument goes - while the Spanish were trying to avoid the muslims to find a way to Asia, they instead stumbled upon the Americas....


Quote:
I blame the Europeans for raping and pillaging and enslaving and committing genocide of the inhabitants - as well as for any other devastating effects that rape and pillage and genocide had on the inhabitants - unforeseen or otherwise.


polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:
you are not making any coherent point here homo

Take whatever scenario you like - it still doesn't alter the essential point: the Spanish gave Indians the sniffles/small pox, whatever - because they invaded their land in order to rape and pillage it. I don't have to brush up on my biology to know that.



polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:55am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Dec 22nd, 2017 at 9:01am:
It's a tough case to prove, so FD just makes stuff up.


To be fair, he also relies heavilly on the most extraordinarily absurd leaps in logic. From the top of my head just in recent discussions:

- criticising Europeans for killing millions during the colonial period - must be racist, cause you know, European='white' race, and I'm not blaming blacks or muslims




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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #412 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:05pm
 
How to give up debating and become a sad parody

- by freediver.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #413 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:09pm
 
That'll get him, FD.

We all know Gollywogs are not a race.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #414 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm
 
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #415 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 3:48pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Oh, that's easy.

Freeeeedom, innit.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #416 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:27pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Do you think racism is about the terminology you use rather than the intended meaning?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #417 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Do you think racism is about the terminology you use rather than the intended meaning?


That's a question.

We'll change it to wacism, shall we?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #418 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Do you think racism is about the terminology you use rather than the intended meaning?


Great question FD - I ask the same when someone smirks "Islam is not a race" whenever racists are racist against muslims.

Still, I think we can all agree that calling muslims en masse dirty inbred mentally disabled psychotic killers who squat to pee is nothing racist at all - whereas saying Europeans are responsible for spreading European diseases while they raped and pillaged the new world is the most appalling case of blatant racism.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #419 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:20pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Do you think racism is about the terminology you use rather than the intended meaning?


Great question FD - I ask the same when someone smirks "Islam is not a race" whenever racists are racist against muslims.

Still, I think we can all agree that calling muslims en masse dirty inbred mentally disabled psychotic killers who squat to pee is nothing racist at all - whereas saying Europeans are responsible for spreading European diseases while they raped and pillaged the new world is the most appalling case of blatant racism.

Muslims - they are inbred more than Europeans. It's a cultural trait in many Muslim counries.
Mentally disabled - well, they are thick, on the whole.
Psychotic killers - not psychotic but they are killers for Mohammed
Squat to pee - tick
Race - no tick



European diseases being spread by Europeans - d'oh
Raping and pillaging the new world - just like Muslims, so no differentiation
Appalling racism - just like Muslims, so no differentiation.


Muslims come off as much worse in comparison because they have no sense of wrong. Follow Mohammed and you can't do wrong!!! But Mohammed was an evil, murderous warlord - so being EVIL is a given in Islam.  It's the unloveliest, most fascist and darkest of creeds. You look at its fanatical devotees and you will see just that - dark, evil-looking, ready to cut your throat murderers.




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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #420 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:22pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Do you think racism is about the terminology you use rather than the intended meaning?


Great question FD - I ask the same when someone smirks "Islam is not a race" whenever racists are racist against muslims.

Still, I think we can all agree that calling muslims en masse dirty inbred mentally disabled psychotic killers who squat to pee is nothing racist at all - whereas saying Europeans are responsible for spreading European diseases while they raped and pillaged the new world is the most appalling case of blatant racism.


Are you trying to paint yourself as one of the 'good racists'?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #421 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:23pm
 
Frank wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:20pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Do you think racism is about the terminology you use rather than the intended meaning?


Great question FD - I ask the same when someone smirks "Islam is not a race" whenever racists are racist against muslims.

Still, I think we can all agree that calling muslims en masse dirty inbred mentally disabled psychotic killers who squat to pee is nothing racist at all - whereas saying Europeans are responsible for spreading European diseases while they raped and pillaged the new world is the most appalling case of blatant racism.

Muslims - they are inbred more than Europeans. It's a cultural trait in many Muslim counries.
Mentally disabled - well, they are thick, on the whole.
Psychotic killers - not psychotic but they are killers for Mohammed
Squat to pee - tick
Race - no tick



European diseases being spread by Europeans - d'oh
Raping and pillaging the new world - just like Muslims, so no differentiation
Appalling racism - just like Muslims, so no differentiation.


Muslims come off as much worse in comparison because they have no sense of wrong. Follow Mohammed and you can't do wrong!!! But Mohammed was an evil, murderous warlord - so being EVIL is a given in Islam.  It's the unloveliest, most fascist and darkest of creeds. You look at its fanatical devotees and you will see just that - dark, evil-looking, ready to cut your throat murderers.






The old boy's been looking at the map, FD.

Inferior subspecies, innit - sorry, culture.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #422 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 9:22pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:22pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 7:27pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:16pm:
FD can you suggest a more politically correct, non-wacist term than "European Diseases" to describe diseases that originated from Europe?


Do you think racism is about the terminology you use rather than the intended meaning?


Great question FD - I ask the same when someone smirks "Islam is not a race" whenever racists are racist against muslims.

Still, I think we can all agree that calling muslims en masse dirty inbred mentally disabled psychotic killers who squat to pee is nothing racist at all - whereas saying Europeans are responsible for spreading European diseases while they raped and pillaged the new world is the most appalling case of blatant racism.


Are you trying to paint yourself as one of the 'good racists'?


What, sustainable?

Don't worry, FD, once we get rid of the tinted races, we'll move onto carbon taxes and sustainable fishing.

You know, in the fullness of time.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #423 - Feb 26th, 2018 at 12:25pm
 
deleted - please repost in the thread you quoted from (I'm sure you have access to a backup). You've been warned enough times about this.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #424 - Mar 15th, 2018 at 6:49pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2018 at 12:25pm:
deleted - please repost in the thread you quoted from (I'm sure you have access to a backup). You've been warned enough times about this.


Repost what Gandalf? How many of my posts have you been deleting?

Also, you never gave a coherent explanation of what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #425 - Mar 15th, 2018 at 8:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 15th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2018 at 12:25pm:
deleted - please repost in the thread you quoted from (I'm sure you have access to a backup). You've been warned enough times about this.


Repost what Gandalf? How many of my posts have you been deleting?

Also, you never gave a coherent explanation of what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'.


That's right, G. Please tell us which disease is wacist.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #426 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 9:45am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 15th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
Also, you never gave a coherent explanation of what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'.


I admit I can struggle with coherency when attempting to explain the bleeding obvious.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll work it out for yourself FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #427 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 9:50am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 9:45am:
freediver wrote on Mar 15th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
Also, you never gave a coherent explanation of what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'.


I admit I can struggle with coherency when attempting to explain the bleeding obvious.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll work it out for yourself FD.


He did work it out, G. It's an Arab disease when they tax the trade routes.

I blame Arab diseases, no?

I blame Islam.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #428 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 10:03am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 15th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
Also, you never gave a coherent explanation of what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'.


I know lets ask FD - FD what did you mean when you referred to "Arab diseases"? What makes a disease "Arab"?

freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Also, was I right about including deaths due to Arab diseases that the Europeans were attempting to treat and cure?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #429 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 11:37am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 10:03am:
freediver wrote on Mar 15th, 2018 at 6:49pm:
Also, you never gave a coherent explanation of what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'.


I know lets ask FD - FD what did you mean when you referred to "Arab diseases"? What makes a disease "Arab"?

freediver wrote on Nov 17th, 2017 at 8:00pm:
Also, was I right about including deaths due to Arab diseases that the Europeans were attempting to treat and cure?


FD is right, G. Decent white settlers came to Australia to cure the dirty Boongs. We went to Africa to heal the Gollywogs. We went to the East Indies to treat the Tree Monkeys.

Oh, we put them in hospital and gave them medicine, but do you know? We only ever treated the symptoms. We never treated the cause - these people's tintedness.

There's only one way to do that, as every schoolboy knows.

Cesterete them.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #430 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 11:43am
 
It was always your term Gandalf. I do not have to know what you mean to ask whether you were including them. The wikipedia article you cited as evidence said that the Europeans were treating and curing diseases introduced by Arab slave traders. You appeared to be attributing deaths from those diseases to the Europeans. I was asking if this was the case. I never claimed to hold Europeans responsible for European diseases or Arabs responsible for Arab diseases, no matter how you define those diseases. You did.



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #431 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 3:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 11:43am:
It was always your term Gandalf.


Funny, you don't think much of that defense when you constantly shove the mindless collective of treacherous jews down my throat.

freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 11:43am:
I never claimed to hold Europeans responsible for European diseases or Arabs responsible for Arab diseases


So FD, what makes a disease 'European' or 'Arab'? You seem to suddenly and miraculously understand the term.

Also, would you hold arabs responsible for spreading disease while they rape and pillage good European folk? Or would you just blame them for raping and pillaging but hold off on blaming them for the diseases they spread due to the raping and pillaging?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #432 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 5:13pm
 
Quote:
Funny, you don't think much of that defense when you constantly shove the mindless collective of treacherous jews down my throat.


If I said "that's exactly what they are" when you asked me if they were European diseases or Arab diseases, you might have a point. As it is, you do not.

Quote:
Also, would you hold arabs responsible for spreading disease while they rape and pillage good European folk? Or would you just blame them for raping and pillaging but hold off on blaming them for the diseases they spread due to the raping and pillaging?


I don't blame entire races Gandalf. That's you. Nor do I identify diseases as Arab or European. You do.

Can you explain how you identify diseases as Arab or European when blaming Arabs and Europeans for disease?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #433 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 6:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 5:13pm:
I don't blame entire races Gandalf. That's you. Nor do I identify diseases as Arab or European. You do.


Sorry my bad. I should have asked this instead: would you hold muslims responsible for spreading disease while they rape and pillage good European folk? Or would you just blame them for raping and pillaging but hold off on blaming them for the diseases they spread due to the raping and pillaging?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #434 - Mar 16th, 2018 at 9:56pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 5:13pm:
Quote:
Funny, you don't think much of that defense when you constantly shove the mindless collective of treacherous jews down my throat.


If I said "that's exactly what they are" when you asked me if they were European diseases or Arab diseases, you might have a point. As it is, you do not.

Quote:
Also, would you hold arabs responsible for spreading disease while they rape and pillage good European folk? Or would you just blame them for raping and pillaging but hold off on blaming them for the diseases they spread due to the raping and pillaging?


I don't blame entire races Gandalf. That's you. Nor do I identify diseases as Arab or European. You do.

Can you explain how you identify diseases as Arab or European when blaming Arabs and Europeans for disease?


That's right. Decent white people everywhere are not a race.

So unfair.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #435 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:23am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 6:46pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 5:13pm:
I don't blame entire races Gandalf. That's you. Nor do I identify diseases as Arab or European. You do.


Sorry my bad. I should have asked this instead: would you hold muslims responsible for spreading disease while they rape and pillage good European folk? Or would you just blame them for raping and pillaging but hold off on blaming them for the diseases they spread due to the raping and pillaging?




Actually, I suspect that was less common, as they tended to take the women home with them so they could rape them at leisure, or sell them to other Muslims to be raped and breed the next generations of Muslim warriors to go out and capture more sex slaves.

Do I hold you responsible for these diseases Gandalf?

Also, you stated that Europeans are responsible for European diseases, and Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases. You have been ducking and weaving ever since. Can you give a straight answer? What makes a disease 'Arab' or 'European'?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #436 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 11:00am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 6:46pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 5:13pm:
I don't blame entire races Gandalf. That's you. Nor do I identify diseases as Arab or European. You do.


Sorry my bad. I should have asked this instead: would you hold muslims responsible for spreading disease while they rape and pillage good European folk? Or would you just blame them for raping and pillaging but hold off on blaming them for the diseases they spread due to the raping and pillaging?




That depends. Were they cut off from European trade routes?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #437 - Mar 17th, 2018 at 11:02am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:23am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 6:46pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 16th, 2018 at 5:13pm:
I don't blame entire races Gandalf. That's you. Nor do I identify diseases as Arab or European. You do.


Sorry my bad. I should have asked this instead: would you hold muslims responsible for spreading disease while they rape and pillage good European folk? Or would you just blame them for raping and pillaging but hold off on blaming them for the diseases they spread due to the raping and pillaging?




Actually, I suspect that was less common, as they tended to take the women home with them so they could rape them at leisure, or sell them to other Muslims to be raped and breed the next generations of Muslim warriors to go out and capture more sex slaves.

Do I hold you responsible for these diseases Gandalf?

Also, you stated that Europeans are responsible for European diseases, and Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases. You have been ducking and weaving ever since. Can you give a straight answer? What makes a disease 'Arab' or 'European'?


Good question, FD. Have you thought of asking the old boy that one?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #438 - Mar 21st, 2018 at 2:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 17th, 2018 at 10:23am:
Also, you stated that Europeans are responsible for European diseases, and Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases. You have been ducking and weaving ever since. Can you give a straight answer? What makes a disease 'Arab' or 'European'?


Sorry FD, but what you see as 'ducking and weaving' is in fact me being made speechless by the sheer stupidity of such a question.

Did you think about that question when you used the phrase yourself? You didn't seem to have too much difficulty understanding the concept then.




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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #439 - Mar 21st, 2018 at 6:34pm
 
I had no difficulty because I was asking you what you meant.

What makes a disease 'Arab' or 'European'?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #440 - Mar 21st, 2018 at 9:01pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 21st, 2018 at 6:34pm:
I had no difficulty because I was asking you what you meant.

What makes a disease 'Arab' or 'European'?


What makes a porkie upholdable?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #441 - Mar 22nd, 2018 at 9:11am
 
Strange FD, this seems like a funny way of asking me what I meant by "Arab diseases"...

Quote:
Also, was I right about including deaths due to Arab diseases that the Europeans were attempting to treat and cure?


I'd be interested to know exactly what you thought you were "including" - if indeed you had no idea what that thing you were including means.

Do you think just maybe you were referring to your own definition of "arab diseases"

freediver wrote on Nov 12th, 2017 at 11:38am:
the diseases introduced by Arab traders


??

FD, is common sense something that only visits you once in a while?



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #442 - Mar 22nd, 2018 at 7:10pm
 
Have you answered your own question Gandalf?

How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European? Remember, you are the one who blames Europeans for European diseases and Arabs for Arab diseases, not me, so I cannot answer it for you.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #443 - Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:06am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 22nd, 2018 at 7:10pm:
How do you decide which diseases are Arab


Do you think your own definition is adequate? Here you go, in case you forgot:

Quote:
But you are counting the deaths caused by the diseases introduced by Arab traders as being caused by Europeans, right?


to which you later referred to...

Quote:
was I right about including deaths due to Arab diseases that the Europeans were attempting to treat and cure?


FD, is it fair to say this is you defining "arab diseases" as "diseases introduced by Arab traders"? If so, how did you decide which diseases are arab? Was common sense visiting that day? why such an idiotic me no speaka da English routine?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #444 - Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:09am
 
For the benefit of anyone not following this tedious debate - FD is literally confused by why I would call diseases brought over by Europeans to places like the Americas and Africa as they colonised those places "European diseases". Oh, and he thinks its racist too.

Even though, he uses the exact same logic to describe (and apparently understand) the concept of "arab diseases".
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #445 - Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:09am:
For the benefit of anyone not following this tedious debate - FD is literally confused by why I would call diseases brought over by Europeans to places like the Americas and Africa as they colonised those places "European diseases". Oh, and he thinks its racist too.

Even though, he uses the exact same logic to describe (and apparently understand) the concept of "arab diseases".


Yes, but look at it from FD's side. He sees European-spread diseases as Arab diseases too.

Take the Aboriginal smallpox epidemic of 1788. This was an Arab disease because the Arabs decided to tax European traders back in the 15th century.

Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #446 - Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #447 - Mar 23rd, 2018 at 12:22pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Spinelessly apologise? FD believes this. He actually listens to Moses and Yadda.

Islam == a follower of Islam.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #448 - Mar 24th, 2018 at 10:03am
 
I am not confused Gandalf. I am just curious about the elaborate tapdancing. Out of all the diseases that were brought over, you were only able to identify two (as I recall) as European and none as Arab.

How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #449 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:04am
 
How did you decide which diseases were arab when you used (and defined) the term FD?

Is common sense visiting this week?
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Reply #450 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:13am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:04am:
How did you decide which diseases were arab when you used (and defined) the term FD?

Is common sense visiting this week?


He meant the European ones, G.

FD said Arab because he didn't want to be wacist.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #451 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.



Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.


There are no jokes in Islam.




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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #452 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

...

...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #453 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


When the Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini decreed a death sentence against author Salman Rushdie in 1989, to be carried out by any good Muslim, the most common reaction was disbelief. A death sentence? Over a book?
In Australia, at least, there were laughs to be had, and plenty of comedians were ready to mine them. Austen Tayshus predicted Rushdie's next book would be called "And Buddha is a fat little poo." Rob Sitch and his fellow D-Generation talents won an ARIA award for their 1989 album The Satanic Sketches. In 1989, for comedians, all religions were fair game.
But in the 26 years since Khomeini's fatwa was announced, the laughs have withered away. As its engagement with the Muslim world deepens, the West – Australian satirists no exception – has come to understand that Islam is no laughing matter.
...

The website Islam Question and Answer (islamqa.info/en) offers as its first condition of "permissible joking": It should not involve any element of making fun of Islam.
Khomeini himself put it this way: "Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer.
An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious."
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #454 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:20pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Really? I didn't know they had a sense of humour. Their women certainly don't.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #455 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:22pm
 
This year [2015] will mark a decade since the "Danish cartoons" furore. It should be remembered that the cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad had been commissioned by a Danish newspaper editor in 2005 to "test the limits of free speech". This exercise was very European in its enlightenment premise. The recurring violence provides its own answer, with the atrocity in Paris simply another punctuation point.
After Paris, the idea that Islam and its prophet is a religion that can be mocked is now literally a dangerous one about which there can be no festival.
A solemn and dignified Ramadan indeed. Sometimes it takes a clown to speak the truths that others won't face. [ie that Islam is laughable. ed.]


We can joke about everything but Islam because Muslims will kill for a joke or a cartoon or a book.  Their so called 'comedians' make jokes about people who find this outrageous and unacceptable. They are propagandists, not comedians.



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #456 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:14pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.



Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.



There aren't many in Denmark, shurely.

Remember, no one has the right to not be offended - except the old boy.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #457 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:27pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


And yet they are a growing phenomenon, Soren.  Humour, like beauty is very much in the eyes and ears of the beholder.  You may not find them funny but loads of other people find them funny.  Rather like how today, Monty-Python is considered classic British comedy but when it was first aired on television it was dreadfully panned...    Roll Eyes



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #458 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:49pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:27pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


And yet they are a growing phenomenon, Soren.  Humour, like beauty is very much in the eyes and ears of the beholder.  You may not find them funny but loads of other people find them funny.  Rather like how today, Monty-Python is considered classic British comedy but when it was first aired on television it was dreadfully panned...    Roll Eyes




Tell us a joke about Islam then, one these 'phenomena' tell. Go on. One joke about Islam by Muslims.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #459 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:56pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:04am:
How did you decide which diseases were arab when you used (and defined) the term FD?

Is common sense visiting this week?


I was asking you about a specific example that you provided Gandalf. I do not need to know how you decide in order to ask you how you decide. I personally think the whole idea is idiotic, even by your standards. Were you, by your own logic, blaming Europeans for Arab diseases? Or am I not allowed to ask this until I tell you the answer?

How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #460 - Mar 29th, 2018 at 10:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:04am:
How did you decide which diseases were arab when you used (and defined) the term FD?

Is common sense visiting this week?


I was asking you about a specific example that you provided Gandalf. I do not need to know how you decide in order to ask you how you decide. I personally think the whole idea is idiotic, even by your standards. Were you, by your own logic, blaming Europeans for Arab diseases? Or am I not allowed to ask this until I tell you the answer?

How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European?


I think I can answer this one, FD, but first, do you mind if I ask you a question?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #461 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 12:17pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:27pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


And yet they are a growing phenomenon, Soren.  Humour, like beauty is very much in the eyes and ears of the beholder.  You may not find them funny but loads of other people find them funny.  Rather like how today, Monty-Python is considered classic British comedy but when it was first aired on television it was dreadfully panned...    Roll Eyes






The only growing phenomenon is self- censorsgip around Islam and Muslims.

Muslim 'commedians' make jokes about non-Muslim 'misundertandings' of Islam  and Muslims. No jokes about Mohammed lest you get killed or fired.
https://www.meforum.org/articles/2015/why-can-t-muslims-laugh-at-mohammed
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #462 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 3:04pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 12:17pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:27pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


And yet they are a growing phenomenon, Soren.  Humour, like beauty is very much in the eyes and ears of the beholder.  You may not find them funny but loads of other people find them funny.  Rather like how today, Monty-Python is considered classic British comedy but when it was first aired on television it was dreadfully panned...    Roll Eyes


The only growing phenomenon is self- censorsgip around Islam and Muslims.

Muslim 'commedians' make jokes about non-Muslim 'misundertandings' of Islam  and Muslims. No jokes about Mohammed lest you get killed or fired.
https://www.meforum.org/articles/2015/why-can-t-muslims-laugh-at-mohammed


Have you ever listened to/seen a Muslim comedian?  YES/NO
Have you understood what they are saying?   YES/NO
Have you laughed at their jokes?   YES/NO

Answer those questions, truthfully, Soren.  Try it.  It might be a bit hard at first but you'll benefit from the experience of being honest for a change, I assure you.    Roll Eyes
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #463 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 3:10pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:49pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:27pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


And yet they are a growing phenomenon, Soren.  Humour, like beauty is very much in the eyes and ears of the beholder.  You may not find them funny but loads of other people find them funny.  Rather like how today, Monty-Python is considered classic British comedy but when it was first aired on television it was dreadfully panned...    Roll Eyes


Tell us a joke about Islam then, one these 'phenomena' tell. Go on. One joke about Islam by Muslims.


Humour in Islam


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #464 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 3:35pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 3:04pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 12:17pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:27pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


And yet they are a growing phenomenon, Soren.  Humour, like beauty is very much in the eyes and ears of the beholder.  You may not find them funny but loads of other people find them funny.  Rather like how today, Monty-Python is considered classic British comedy but when it was first aired on television it was dreadfully panned...    Roll Eyes


The only growing phenomenon is self- censorsgip around Islam and Muslims.

Muslim 'commedians' make jokes about non-Muslim 'misundertandings' of Islam  and Muslims. No jokes about Mohammed lest you get killed or fired.
https://www.meforum.org/articles/2015/why-can-t-muslims-laugh-at-mohammed


Have you ever listened to/seen a Muslim comedian?  YES/NO
Have you understood what they are saying?   YES/NO.
Have you laughed at their jokes?   YES/NO

Answer those questions, truthfully, Soren.  Try it.  It might be a bit hard at first but you'll benefit from the experience of being honest for a change, I assure you.    Roll Eyes


But of course. The old boy had a laugh at that joke in Punch. Mustapha Khunt.

We always have a chuckle over that one. Poor old Sir Reggie!

Very droll.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #465 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:06pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 3:04pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 12:17pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:27pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 7:19pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 10:12am:
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 23rd, 2018 at 9:58am:
Remember, there are no right or wrong answers here, G.


Unless you have the gall to use outrageously racist terms like "European diseases", and even worse, hold the people who spread those diseases responsible. Then its definitely wrong - and wacist.

But mocking the entire male muslim population for being inbred mentally disabled murderous psychopaths who are so primitive they squat to pee - thats a-ok, and we'll spinelessly apologise for such hate speech to the death.


Accusing and mocking - not the same things.

Except for puffed up self-righteous Muslims, who will take mocking to be an accusation and so have and will kill over mocking jokes.

There are no jokes in Islam.


Yet there are Muslim comedians...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Nazeem_Hussain.jpg/220...

http://i0.wp.com/mvslim.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3.jpg

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


They are PC eyewash.   They are not joking about Islam. And they are not particularly funny.


And yet they are a growing phenomenon, Soren.  Humour, like beauty is very much in the eyes and ears of the beholder.  You may not find them funny but loads of other people find them funny.  Rather like how today, Monty-Python is considered classic British comedy but when it was first aired on television it was dreadfully panned...    Roll Eyes


The only growing phenomenon is self- censorsgip around Islam and Muslims.

Muslim 'commedians' make jokes about non-Muslim 'misundertandings' of Islam  and Muslims. No jokes about Mohammed lest you get killed or fired.
https://www.meforum.org/articles/2015/why-can-t-muslims-laugh-at-mohammed


Have you ever listened to/seen a Muslim comedian?  YES/NO
Have you understood what they are saying?   YES/NO
Have you laughed at their jokes?   YES/NO

Answer those questions, truthfully, Soren.  Try it.  It might be a bit hard at first but you'll benefit from the experience of being honest for a change, I assure you.    Roll Eyes

Yes, no, no.

I asked you for some funny jokes about islam by muslim 'comedians' but you couldn't find any so gave us a wiki link o prove MY point.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/bremner-fears-joke-abou...


Charlie Hebdo. Danish cartoons. Texas attack on cartoon exhibition. Muslim comedians apologising for jokes.

But as free people, we MUST BE FREE to mock and laugh at Islam AS WELL. It deserves no special treatment no matter how irrationally violent its defenders may be.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/je-suis-louis-smith-must-free-mock-islam/
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« Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:20pm by Frank »  

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #466 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm
 
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #467 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Thank you for lying, Bwian.

No cartoonist, writer, comedian who has mocked Islam is safe.

Newspapers and publishers now self censor because of the very real and evident danger to life by islamists. This is fact, Bwian , and you can continue lying as much as you want about it and pretending not to know.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #468 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:47pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Thank you for lying, Bwian.

No cartoonist, writer, comedian who has mocked Islam is safe.

Newspapers and publishers now self censor because of the very real and evident danger to life by islamists. This is fact, Bwian , and you can continue lying as much as you want about it and pretending not to know.


Oh, I know, Soren/Hammer.   I know.  You and your fellow Islamophobes have told us often enough.  Tsk, tsk.   So, how many Journalists/Comedians/Cartoonists in Australia have suffered attack?   Any at all?   Any?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Soren/Hammer.   So, how long have you had a sock puppet?     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #469 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:22pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Thank you for lying, Bwian.

No cartoonist, writer, comedian who has mocked Islam is safe.

Newspapers and publishers now self censor because of the very real and evident danger to life by islamists. This is fact, Bwian , and you can continue lying as much as you want about it and pretending not to know.


Oh, I know, Soren/Hammer.   I know.  You and your fellow Islamophobes have told us often enough.  Tsk, tsk.   So, how many Journalists/Comedians/Cartoonists in Australia have suffered attack?   Any at all?   Any?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Soren/Hammer.   So, how long have you had a sock puppet?     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Bill Leak had to move house on police advice.


Keep lying and pretending, Al-Bwian bin Liner.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #470 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:32pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Thank you for lying, Bwian.

No cartoonist, writer, comedian who has mocked Islam is safe.

Newspapers and publishers now self censor because of the very real and evident danger to life by islamists. This is fact, Bwian , and you can continue lying as much as you want about it and pretending not to know.


Oh, I know, Soren/Hammer.   I know.  You and your fellow Islamophobes have told us often enough.  Tsk, tsk.   So, how many Journalists/Comedians/Cartoonists in Australia have suffered attack?   Any at all?   Any?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Soren/Hammer.   So, how long have you had a sock puppet?     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Bill Leak had to move house on police advice.

Keep lying and pretending, Al-Bwian bin Liner.



Yes, yes, Hammer.  Being put on a "death list" is the same as actually being attacked or beheaded, now isn't it, in your book?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The Police were being ultra-cautious.  In reality, Leak wasn't in any real danger.   As I keep pointing out, you, Hammer/Soren are more likely to be hit by a random car than you are to being hit by a random Muslim.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #471 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 8:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:32pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Thank you for lying, Bwian.

No cartoonist, writer, comedian who has mocked Islam is safe.

Newspapers and publishers now self censor because of the very real and evident danger to life by islamists. This is fact, Bwian , and you can continue lying as much as you want about it and pretending not to know.


Oh, I know, Soren/Hammer.   I know.  You and your fellow Islamophobes have told us often enough.  Tsk, tsk.   So, how many Journalists/Comedians/Cartoonists in Australia have suffered attack?   Any at all?   Any?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Soren/Hammer.   So, how long have you had a sock puppet?     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Bill Leak had to move house on police advice.

Keep lying and pretending, Al-Bwian bin Liner.



Yes, yes, Hammer.  Being put on a "death list" is the same as actually being attacked or beheaded, now isn't it, in your book?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The Police were being ultra-cautious.  In reality, Leak wasn't in any real danger.   As I keep pointing out, you, Hammer/Soren are more likely to be hit by a random car than you are to being hit by a random Muslim.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Why do we tolerate Muslims we have be cautious about when it comes to OUR freedoms? Why do tolerate people who make us cautioyus in our own countries?

Let them go back to their countries if freedom is intolerable for them.

How dare they threaten us in our own countries when we live our free lives?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #472 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 9:32pm
 
As much as it pains me to say it, Brian does put forward a valid point. In australia, we are statistically most unlikely to ever suffer personally from aggression or injury caused by a muslim.

Our peace of mind is affected, our cultural identity is continually assaulted and attacked in reality and in principle.
It is however more often extreme, rather that should be far, far, left, extreme, loonies, that seek to impose the denial of free access to enjoy our rights and culture as we see fit, and have traditionally enjoyed.

I am actually so old I do remember when muslims were considered lovely, kind, courteous and decent people. Much like nice hippies, or good christians.
They never took the whole Islam thing too seriously.

All Isms are dodgy, with Islam challenged only by Veganism as the most annoying. (Now there are some self righteous pains in the arse)
Christians are dodgy as buggery if they believe the rubbish they spruik, and jews too.
Yer see it is all forms of extremism, but the fact remains that Islam is a massive issue, and having millions of the buggers wanting to move from whatever shitholistan they come from, here, suddenly makes it OUR problem too.

If they stayed home and kept blowing each other up I could tut tut over me cup a tea and slice of vegimite on toast, saying, aint it a shame, and mean it.

When they want to turn my country into shitholistan mk2 I say no tanks bucko me lad, stay home and fook up yer own shitehole.

I'm rambling now, the dementia is getting worse no doubt, but I wish we could have migrants who valued and respected what australia is, and wanted to join us, and
become one of us. If they did that we wouldn't care who they called their invisible friends, we would welcome them and enfold them in a loving embrace.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #473 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 9:36pm
 
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 8:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:32pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Thank you for lying, Bwian.

No cartoonist, writer, comedian who has mocked Islam is safe.

Newspapers and publishers now self censor because of the very real and evident danger to life by islamists. This is fact, Bwian , and you can continue lying as much as you want about it and pretending not to know.


Oh, I know, Soren/Hammer.   I know.  You and your fellow Islamophobes have told us often enough.  Tsk, tsk.   So, how many Journalists/Comedians/Cartoonists in Australia have suffered attack?   Any at all?   Any?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Soren/Hammer.   So, how long have you had a sock puppet?     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Bill Leak had to move house on police advice.

Keep lying and pretending, Al-Bwian bin Liner.



Yes, yes, Hammer.  Being put on a "death list" is the same as actually being attacked or beheaded, now isn't it, in your book?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The Police were being ultra-cautious.  In reality, Leak wasn't in any real danger.   As I keep pointing out, you, Hammer/Soren are more likely to be hit by a random car than you are to being hit by a random Muslim.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Why do we tolerate Muslims we have be cautious about when it comes to OUR freedoms? Why do tolerate people who make us cautioyus in our own countries?

Let them go back to their countries if freedom is intolerable for them.

How dare they threaten us in our own countries when we live our free lives?


Yes, the old boy did say this.

Sir Reggie would be proud, no?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #474 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 10:18pm
 
mozzaok wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 9:32pm:
As much as it pains me to say it, Brian does put forward a valid point. In australia, we are statistically most unlikely to ever suffer personally from aggression or injury caused by a muslim.


Yet, according to Hammer/Soren, we are all about to be murdered in our beds...   Roll Eyes

Quote:
Our peace of mind is affected, our cultural identity is continually assaulted and attacked in reality and in principle.


Your peace of mind may be but sensible people aren't terrified of their Muslim neighbours.  I have served with/studied with/taught and worked with dozens of Muslims over the decades and none of them have ever represented a problem to me or anybody around them. I have never, ever, been threatened by a Muslim.   I don't doubt there are bad Muslims out there but I am yet to meet one.

Quote:
It is however more often extreme, rather that should be far, far, left, extreme, loonies, that seek to impose the denial of free access to enjoy our rights and culture as we see fit, and have traditionally enjoyed.


I am yet to see this in action.  Have you?  The media enjoys digging out some lunatic extremist but they are no worse in reality than lunatic extremist Christians or any other religion, IMO.  They exist, it is time to learn how to tolerate and deal with them.

Quote:
I am actually so old I do remember when muslims were considered lovely, kind, courteous and decent people.


Most Muslims today still are.  The overwhelming majority in fact.  Few Muslims would fit the label "extremist" in Australia.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #475 - Mar 30th, 2018 at 11:10pm
 
the fact remains that Islam is a massive issue, and having millions of the buggers wanting to move from whatever shitholistan they come from, here, suddenly makes it OUR problem too.




The point, in all that ramble.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #476 - Apr 3rd, 2018 at 7:08pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:32pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 5:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:47pm:
Frank wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:43pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 30th, 2018 at 4:29pm:
You are free to laugh at and to mock Islam, as much as you desire, Soren.  No one will care, no one will kill you.  You are more likely to die from a car accident than you are to be hurt by a Muslim.  You do realise that?  In fact, you're more likely to win the Lotto than you are to being killed by a Muslim Terrorist.

Now, run along, Soren or should I say, "Hammer"?  Mmmm?   Tsk, tsk.  Your Islamophobia is showing yet again.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Thank you for lying, Bwian.

No cartoonist, writer, comedian who has mocked Islam is safe.

Newspapers and publishers now self censor because of the very real and evident danger to life by islamists. This is fact, Bwian , and you can continue lying as much as you want about it and pretending not to know.


Oh, I know, Soren/Hammer.   I know.  You and your fellow Islamophobes have told us often enough.  Tsk, tsk.   So, how many Journalists/Comedians/Cartoonists in Australia have suffered attack?   Any at all?   Any?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Poor, poor, Soren/Hammer.   So, how long have you had a sock puppet?     Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Bill Leak had to move house on police advice.

Keep lying and pretending, Al-Bwian bin Liner.



Yes, yes, Hammer.  Being put on a "death list" is the same as actually being attacked or beheaded, now isn't it, in your book?   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

The Police were being ultra-cautious.  In reality, Leak wasn't in any real danger.   As I keep pointing out, you, Hammer/Soren are more likely to be hit by a random car than you are to being hit by a random Muslim.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian, if someone made a Muslim equivalent of the life of Brian, what odds would you place on them dying a violent death?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #477 - Apr 6th, 2018 at 6:33pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:56pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 29th, 2018 at 8:04am:
How did you decide which diseases were arab when you used (and defined) the term FD?

Is common sense visiting this week?


I was asking you about a specific example that you provided Gandalf. I do not need to know how you decide in order to ask you how you decide. I personally think the whole idea is idiotic, even by your standards. Were you, by your own logic, blaming Europeans for Arab diseases? Or am I not allowed to ask this until I tell you the answer?

How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European?


So I take it that you think the idea that the Europeans came to the Congo to "treat and cure" "arab diseases" is also idiotic? If not, what did you mean by "arab diseases"? Do you often go around casually using phrases you clearly comprehend one minute then dismiss it as "idiotic" the next?

Isn't it funny how you weren't trolling me with the 'me no speaka da English' routine when you were not only using this "idiotic" term, but also defining it and clearly understanding it. Coincidentally, the very same time that common sense was paying you a visit.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #478 - Apr 6th, 2018 at 6:45pm
 
Quote:
So I take it that you think the idea that the Europeans came to the Congo to "treat and cure" "arab diseases" is also idiotic?


It is a particularly stupid strawman.

Quote:
If not, what did you mean by "arab diseases"? Do you often go around casually using phrases you clearly comprehend one minute then dismiss it as "idiotic" the next?


Again, Gandalf, I was asking you what you meant. I am not the one blaming Europeans for European diseases and Arabs for Arab diseases, so I don't have to explain anything.

Let's try again for a straight answer.

How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #479 - Apr 6th, 2018 at 7:02pm
 
FD did Europeans attempt to treat and cure "arab diseases" or not? Or are you now unable to answer that because of some unexplained freak event that somehow stopped you understanding what "arab diseases" means? At precisely what stage did you suddenly stop understanding this phrase you clearly understood at the time you used it?

freediver wrote on Apr 6th, 2018 at 6:45pm:
I am not the one blaming Europeans for European diseases and Arabs for Arab diseases, so I don't have to explain anything.


You are asking me to explain a phrase you not only used, but clearly defined.

How dumb is that FD?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #480 - Apr 6th, 2018 at 8:26pm
 
Quote:
FD did Europeans attempt to treat and cure "arab diseases" or not?


Is this you retracting your idiotic strawman? Or can't you tell the difference?

Quote:
You are asking me to explain a phrase you not only used, but clearly defined.


Try reading it slowly Gandalf. How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #481 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 5:56pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 6th, 2018 at 8:26pm:
Is this you retracting your idiotic strawman? Or can't you tell the difference?


I'm simply asking you to explain your own statement.

You previously stated that Europeans attempted to treat and cure "arab diseases" - and you used that exact phrase. Now you are not only asking me what it means, but acting like its the most stupid phrase in the world. After you used it, as well as clearly defined it.

freediver wrote on Apr 6th, 2018 at 8:26pm:
Try reading it slowly Gandalf. How do you decide which diseases are Arab and which ones are European?


I use my common sense. As you did when you decided what diseases were arab, when you specifically defined what it was. Gosh, I even quoted you clearly defining what it is. You can safely assume I accept and apply that same definition. You really can FD.

Imagine how dumb it would be FD if you voluntarily use a particular phrase, clearly define it, and then proceed to make a claim about it... and then insist that when someone else uses it, its ridiculous, makes no sense, and must be explained. Funniest of all - this is exactly what you are doing.

Be honest here FD, would we be having this absurd discussion if we were only talking about the phrase "arab diseases", and the phrase "European diseases" had never been mentioned? I mean, you did after all have no problem whatsoever understanding (and then using) the phrase yourself. I mean you only started this inane "me no speaka da English" routine when you decided the equivalent "European diseases" was so horribly racist.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #482 - Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:35pm
 
You seem confused Gandalf. Who is arguing that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases? You or me? Are you trying to disown your argument?

Quote:
I use my common sense. As you did when you decided what diseases were arab, when you specifically defined what it was.


Did i trick you into saying these things Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #483 - Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:12am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
You seem confused Gandalf. Who is arguing that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases? You or me?


Hard to say, FD. You're arguing that Arabs are responsible for the spreading of all diseases, aren't you?

Would you like to clarify your view?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #484 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
You seem confused Gandalf. Who is arguing that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases? You or me? Are you trying to disown your argument?

Quote:
I use my common sense. As you did when you decided what diseases were arab, when you specifically defined what it was.


Did i trick you into saying these things Gandalf?



So just to clarify FD, when you said that Arabs brought diseases to the congo which the Europeans attempted to treat and cure - and specifically referred to them as "arab diseases" - you weren't holding arabs responsible for spreading those diseases?

Is it true that whole thing would be a big non-issue had I not mentioned "European diseases" and simply left it at "arab diseases"?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #485 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:35pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
You seem confused Gandalf. Who is arguing that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases? You or me? Are you trying to disown your argument?

Quote:
I use my common sense. As you did when you decided what diseases were arab, when you specifically defined what it was.


Did i trick you into saying these things Gandalf?



So just to clarify FD, when you said that Arabs brought diseases to the congo which the Europeans attempted to treat and cure - and specifically referred to them as "arab diseases" - you weren't holding arabs responsible for spreading those diseases?

Is it true that whole thing would be a big non-issue had I not mentioned "European diseases" and simply left it at "arab diseases"?

What European diseases are you referring to?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #486 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:48pm
 
small pox, common cold, measles etc

diseases brought from their home countries to the new world by Europeans hence "European diseases".

I also "blame" Europeans for spreading these diseases as they raped and pillaged these places. Apparently FD can't fathom this concept. Presumably because he can't bring himself to acknowledge the European rape and pillage of the new world. Its all just appalling wacism.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #487 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:51pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:48pm:
small pox, common cold, measles etc

diseases brought from their home countries to the new world by Europeans hence "European diseases".

I also "blame" Europeans for spreading these diseases as they raped and pillaged these places. Apparently FD can't fathom this concept. Presumably because he can't bring himself to acknowledge the European rape and pillage of the new world. Its all just appalling wacism.
So did Muslims spread Arab diseases when they raped and pillaged other peoples lands?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #488 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 1:06pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:34pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
You seem confused Gandalf. Who is arguing that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases? You or me? Are you trying to disown your argument?

Quote:
I use my common sense. As you did when you decided what diseases were arab, when you specifically defined what it was.


Did i trick you into saying these things Gandalf?



So just to clarify FD, when you said that Arabs brought diseases to the congo which the Europeans attempted to treat and cure - and specifically referred to them as "arab diseases" - you weren't holding arabs responsible for spreading those diseases?

Is it true that whole thing would be a big non-issue had I not mentioned "European diseases" and simply left it at "arab diseases"?


Of course not Gandalf. This is your argument, not mine.

Quote:
small pox, common cold, measles etc

diseases brought from their home countries to the new world by Europeans hence "European diseases".


If they were introduced to Europe by Arabs, would that mean they are actually Arab diseases?

Quote:
So did Muslims spread Arab diseases when they raped and pillaged other peoples lands?


I think it depends on whether they used ships or camels.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #489 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 1:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
If they were introduced to Europe by Arabs, would that mean they are actually Arab diseases?


My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 1:06pm:
I think it depends on whether they used ships or camels.


Good answer. Now a follow up question if I may - if arabs infect people with the diseases they bring with them while they rape and pillage those people's land - do you hold arabs responsible for the spread of those diseases? I don't think I've ever got an actual answer to that one. Or my favourite: is a man to blame for infecting a woman with AIDS that he didn't realise he had when he rapes her?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #490 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm
 
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #491 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:26pm
 
I'm not getting through am I FD?

Consider this scenario...

a band of European rapists and pillagers invade the Americas. Are you still with me? Ok, so some or all of them are carrying a virus or bacterial infection that they had picked up in their homeland in Europe. I then call it a "European disease". Now can you see how this definition is perfectly adequate without needing to investigate who may have brought the disease to Europe before that? Perhaps if I draw a venn diagram?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #492 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:30pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:26pm:
I'm not getting through am I FD?

Consider this scenario...

a band of European rapists and pillagers invade the Americas. Are you still with me? Ok, so some or all of them are carrying a virus or bacterial infection that they had picked up in their homeland in Europe. I then call it a "European disease". Now can you see how this definition is perfectly adequate without needing to investigate who may have brought the disease to Europe before that? Perhaps if I draw a venn diagram?

As long as you don't mind the term Arab disease or Muslim disease or Hindu disease etc for the group who passed the disease on.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #493 - Apr 9th, 2018 at 8:30pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:26pm:
I'm not getting through am I FD?

Consider this scenario...

a band of European rapists and pillagers invade the Americas. Are you still with me? Ok, so some or all of them are carrying a virus or bacterial infection that they had picked up in their homeland in Europe. I then call it a "European disease". Now can you see how this definition is perfectly adequate without needing to investigate who may have brought the disease to Europe before that? Perhaps if I draw a venn diagram?


What is it adequate for Gandalf?

When does it stop being a European disease?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #494 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 9:16am
 
It is adequate  for saying something like "Millions of natives in the New World died from 'European diseases', brought over during the great rape and pillage fest known as the 'colonial era'".
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #495 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 12:16pm
 
When does it stop being a European disease?

And why did it stop being an Arab one?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #496 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm
 
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #497 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 8th, 2018 at 12:12am:
freediver wrote on Apr 7th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
You seem confused Gandalf. Who is arguing that Arabs are responsible for Arab diseases and Europeans are responsible for European diseases? You or me?


Hard to say, FD. You're arguing that Arabs are responsible for the spreading of all diseases, aren't you?

Would you like to clarify your view?


What's the matter, FD? Cat got your tongue?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #498 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:42pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:51pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 12:48pm:
small pox, common cold, measles etc

diseases brought from their home countries to the new world by Europeans hence "European diseases".

I also "blame" Europeans for spreading these diseases as they raped and pillaged these places. Apparently FD can't fathom this concept. Presumably because he can't bring himself to acknowledge the European rape and pillage of the new world. Its all just appalling wacism.
So did Muslims spread Arab diseases when they raped and pillaged other peoples lands?


Not at all. Muslims spread Arab diseases when Whitey raped and pillaged other people's land.

Not racist, Homo. Smallpox is not a race.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #499 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:47pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:26pm:
I'm not getting through am I FD?

Consider this scenario...

a band of European rapists and pillagers invade the Americas. Are you still with me? Ok, so some or all of them are carrying a virus or bacterial infection that they had picked up in their homeland in Europe. I then call it a "European disease". Now can you see how this definition is perfectly adequate without needing to investigate who may have brought the disease to Europe before that? Perhaps if I draw a venn diagram?


No need for that, G. The European rapists and pillagers (racist) invaded the Americas because the Muslims demanded their cut.

Portugal, Spain, France and Mother England would never have gone if it wasn't for your dastardly Muselman. No plantations, no slave trade, no gold fever, no spreading Jesus' love by the sword.

We blame Islam here. You?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #500 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:59pm
 
And the Belgians only went into the Congo to treat and cure arab diseases. Gosh, we can't blame them for following up with a bit of raping and pillaging and causing the death of millions... what else were they expected to do after coming all that way??

So unfair.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #501 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:00pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:59pm:
And the Belgians only went into the Congo to treat and cure arab diseases. Gosh, we can't blame them for following up with a bit of raping and pillaging and causing the death of millions... what else were they expected to do after coming all that way??

So unfair.


Did FD say that?

For some reason, he won't say.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #502 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:13pm
 
Reads like a few of you do-gooders are getting a little antsy at the thought of Arab diseases. Arabs did spread disease. All humans spread disease. The plague come from Asia and wiped out two thirds of Europe at one time. So what? Disease isn't the domain of Europeans as raping and pillaging isn't either.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #503 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:15pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:59pm:
And the Belgians only went into the Congo to treat and cure arab diseases. Gosh, we can't blame them for following up with a bit of raping and pillaging and causing the death of millions... what else were they expected to do after coming all that way??

So unfair.

Didn't your Muslim mates invade Africa as well?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #504 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:19pm
 
Early Muslim conquests


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The early Muslim conquests (Arabic: الفتوحات الإسلامية‎, al-Futūḥāt al-Islāmiyya) also referred to as the Arab conquests[4] and early Islamic conquests[5] began with the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the 7th century. He established a new unified polity in the Arabian Peninsula which under the subsequent Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates saw a century of rapid expansion.

The resulting empire stretched from the borders of China and the Indian subcontinent, across Central Asia, the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Europe (Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula to the Pyrenees). Edward Gibbon writes in The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire


Now that an enormous amount of rape, pillaging and disease spreading in that lot.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #505 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 3:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:00pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:59pm:
And the Belgians only went into the Congo to treat and cure arab diseases. Gosh, we can't blame them for following up with a bit of raping and pillaging and causing the death of millions... what else were they expected to do after coming all that way??

So unfair.


Did FD say that?

For some reason, he won't say.


No, not quite. He won't acknowledge any bad things done by Europeans in Congo (or anywhere else). He only mentions the helpful things they did - like cure arab diseases.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #506 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 3:40pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:19pm:
Early Muslim conquests


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The early Muslim conquests (Arabic: الفتوحات الإسلامية‎, al-Futūḥāt al-Islāmiyya) also referred to as the Arab conquests[4] and early Islamic conquests[5] began with the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the 7th century. He established a new unified polity in the Arabian Peninsula which under the subsequent Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates saw a century of rapid expansion.

The resulting empire stretched from the borders of China and the Indian subcontinent, across Central Asia, the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Europe (Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula to the Pyrenees). Edward Gibbon writes in The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire


Now that an enormous amount of rape, pillaging and disease spreading in that lot.


Yes, but at least they're off the hook re spreading diseases. People who spread diseases while raping and pillaging and slaughtering can't be held responsible for that - apparently. Ask FD for the details.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #507 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 4:05pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 2:19pm:
Early Muslim conquests


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The early Muslim conquests (Arabic: الفتوحات الإسلامية‎, al-Futūḥāt al-Islāmiyya) also referred to as the Arab conquests[4] and early Islamic conquests[5] began with the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the 7th century. He established a new unified polity in the Arabian Peninsula which under the subsequent Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates saw a century of rapid expansion.

The resulting empire stretched from the borders of China and the Indian subcontinent, across Central Asia, the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of Europe (Sicily and the Iberian Peninsula to the Pyrenees). Edward Gibbon writes in The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire


Now that an enormous amount of rape, pillaging and disease spreading in that lot.


Yes, but at least they're off the hook re spreading diseases. People who spread diseases while raping and pillaging and slaughtering can't be held responsible for that - apparently. Ask FD for the details.


Yes, let's.

FD, would you like to clarify your view on the Arab diseases?

So far, you haven't said.

This should work, G.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #508 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 5:16pm
 
Islamic corpse cleaning rituals are spreading Ebola in Africa.

Funerals and washing dead bodies in West African countries have led, to a great extent, to spread the disease," a World Health Organization spokeswoman recently warned.
WHO has issued an advisory to Red Cross and other relief workers in African Muslim nations to "be aware of the family's cultural practices and religious beliefs. Help the family understand why some practices cannot be done because they place the family or others at risk for exposure."
The document added: "Identify a family member who has influence with the rest of the family and who can make sure family members avoid dangerous practices such as washing or touching the body."


Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/10/ebolas_spread_and_islamic_burial_ritual.html#ixzz5CFeVqyMM
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #509 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 5:57pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:59pm:
And the Belgians only went into the Congo to treat and cure arab diseases. Gosh, we can't blame them for following up with a bit of raping and pillaging and causing the death of millions... what else were they expected to do after coming all that way??

So unfair.


Now, that is completely ignorant on FD's part. If he knew anything about the Congo, he'd know that Leopold II used it as his personal property to get exorbitantly rich from it, without a care in the word for the natives.

Leopold of course sold it as a humanitarian expedition, but that wasn't his intention.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #510 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #511 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:35pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
If he knew anything about the Congo


Fortunately for FD, he doesn't. He doesn't want to know, that would give the game away. He'll just cherry pick Wikipedia articles that I post and ask clever rhetorical questions until he can construct a narrative that says the deaths were just the result of a bit of bad weather and arab diseases. If you could be bothered to look at previous discussions on this, the apologising is simply breathtaking. Did you know for example, that the muslims are to blame for the Spanish discovering, and then destroying entire civilizations, killing millions? Because they wanted to tax Europeans attempting to cross the Bosporus on their way to Asia - thus prompting the Spanish to seek alternative routes. So hey presto, European raping and pillaging is all the muslims fault.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #512 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:44pm
 
Here's a simple question for you Gandalf. Were you, by your own logic, blaming Europeans for Arab diseases?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #513 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 7:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:33pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?



FD, would you like to clarify your view on the cunning Arab diseases? You haven't said.

You might like to refer me to your original post if you can't be bothered saying it again.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #514 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 7:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:44pm:
Here's a simple question for you Gandalf. Were you, by your own logic, blaming Europeans for Arab diseases?


FD?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #515 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 7:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:44pm:
Here's a simple question for you Gandalf. Were you, by your own logic, blaming Europeans for Arab diseases?


No. Has the day reached peak stupid yet? I certainly hope so.
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Reply #516 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:02pm
 
Oh. FD's gone.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #517 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:09pm
 
FD, please state your views about the Congo, and whether you believe that the Europeans spreading diseases is the fault of the Arab Muslims??

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #518 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:15pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:09pm:
FD, please state your views about the Congo, and whether you believe that the Europeans spreading diseases is the fault of the Arab Muslims??



To give you a sense of FD's take on this - he thinks the devastating famine caused by the forced recruitment of farmers and fishermen into the rubber plantations - was nothing but a bit of bad weather.

He seemed to genuinely believe that famine has no other cause.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #519 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm
 
Quote:
No. Has the day reached peak stupid yet? I certainly hope so.


Was it not an Arab disease?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #520 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:19pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:35pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 5:57pm:
If he knew anything about the Congo


Fortunately for FD, he doesn't. He doesn't want to know, that would give the game away. He'll just cherry pick Wikipedia articles that I post and ask clever rhetorical questions until he can construct a narrative that says the deaths were just the result of a bit of bad weather and arab diseases. If you could be bothered to look at previous discussions on this, the apologising is simply breathtaking. Did you know for example, that the muslims are to blame for the Spanish discovering, and then destroying entire civilizations, killing millions? Because they wanted to tax Europeans attempting to cross the Bosporus on their way to Asia - thus prompting the Spanish to seek alternative routes. So hey presto, European raping and pillaging is all the muslims fault.


You and I have our disagreements, but this point of view from FD is quite absurd.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #521 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Quote:
No. Has the day reached peak stupid yet? I certainly hope so.


Was it not an Arab disease?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?




But then, surely, who brought the diseases to the Arabs??
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #522 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:25pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:20pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Quote:
No. Has the day reached peak stupid yet? I certainly hope so.


Was it not an Arab disease?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?




But then, surely, who brought the diseases to the Arabs??

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #523 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:20pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Quote:
No. Has the day reached peak stupid yet? I certainly hope so.


Was it not an Arab disease?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?




But then, surely, who brought the diseases to the Arabs??



Who brought the diseases to the Indians?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #524 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Was it not an Arab disease?


First I'm hearing this. I think this is your story FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #525 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:42pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:41pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Was it not an Arab disease?


First I'm hearing this. I think this is your story FD.


You have brought this example up a dozen times recently Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #526 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 9:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Quote:
No. Has the day reached peak stupid yet? I certainly hope so.


Was it not an Arab disease?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?




Thank God you're back, FD. Can you answer the question now, please, or would you like me or Auggie or G to repeat it?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #527 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 9:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 6:44pm:
Here's a simple question for you Gandalf. Were you, by your own logic, blaming Europeans for Arab diseases?


Let's try again, FD. Can you explain if you're blaming Arabs (not racist) for European diseases?

Cheers.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #528 - Apr 10th, 2018 at 9:24pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:28pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:25pm:
Auggie wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:20pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Quote:
No. Has the day reached peak stupid yet? I certainly hope so.


Was it not an Arab disease?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
Quote:
My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?




But then, surely, who brought the diseases to the Arabs??



Who brought the diseases to the Indians?


FD?

Let's try again.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #529 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 12:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:42pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:41pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 8:18pm:
Was it not an Arab disease?


First I'm hearing this. I think this is your story FD.


You have brought this example up a dozen times recently Gandalf.



So to prove your point about my alleged mischaracterisation of arab diseases, you then proceed to quote yourself. FD logic.

Not sure where you're going with this FD. Lets start with finding a quote of me describing "arab diseases" as "European diseases", rather than simply quoting yourself. If I did it a "dozen times", then you'll have no trouble finding at least one instance, right?

Also, whose definition of "arab diseases" am I mischaracterising? Yours? Hillarious if it is - considering you think the very idea of 'arab diseases' is absurd. But lets start with that quote and we'll go from there - ok?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #530 - Apr 13th, 2018 at 2:45pm
 
He's evading again, FD.What sound does a jellyfish make?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #531 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:46am
 
Quote:
Also, whose definition of "arab diseases" am I mischaracterising? Yours? Hillarious


I did not accuse you of mischaracterising anyone's definition. You are trying to avoid characterising your own.

Quote:
Lets start with finding a quote of me describing "arab diseases" as "European diseases"


Why?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 10th, 2018 at 1:26pm:
Thats a great question FD.

You might also want to ponder over when people in Europe became "European", and why did they stop being "Africans"... are Dingos considered bone fide "native" Australian animals now? If so, when exactly did that happen? Questions, questions...


Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?

freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2018 at 2:14pm:
[quote]My definition, which is coincidentally also the bleeding obvious, common sense definition, is based on who brought it and where they brought it from. So if European people brought a disease to a another continent from Europe (irrespective of who might have originally brought it to Europe hundreds of years earlier), I say its a "European disease". Is it correct to say that this concept still flies over your head?


What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?

Or does it only count if they use ships rather than beautiful Muslim camels?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #532 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:20am
 
Good point, FD. If they started in India they must be Curry diseases.

Let's try again Gandalf. Do you think FD's still carrying on to avoid sounding like a silly old wacist?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #533 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:24pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Good point, FD. If they started in India they must be Curry diseases.

Let's try again Gandalf. Do you think FD's still carrying on to avoid sounding like a silly old wacist?


I love curry. Does that make me disease-ridden?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #534 - Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:25pm
 
Auggie wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 10:24pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 11:20am:
Good point, FD. If they started in India they must be Curry diseases.

Let's try again Gandalf. Do you think FD's still carrying on to avoid sounding like a silly old wacist?


I love curry. Does that make me disease-ridden?


Not at all. We all like a nice curry, Augie.

However, if your wife makes you curry and stinks out your Harris Park block of flats, you're probably a dirty Curry Shtter, as Gordon will attest.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #535 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 7:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:46am:
Why?


so I can make sense of this question...

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:46am:
Let's try again Gandalf. Why, other than convenient racism, does it stop being an Indian or Arab disease, despite not evolving into a new race, but it is forever a European disease?


The only sense I can make of this question is that you are accusing me of claiming particular diseases stopped being "Indian" or "Arab" diseases, and somehow became, forever "European diseases". Which I don't believe I did. If you disagree, then I request, again, that you cite me doing so.

As you say, "lets try again".

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2018 at 8:46am:
What if Indians bought the disease to the Arabs, Arabs brought the disease to Europe, Europeans landed it somewhere in the Americas, and then native Americans brought it to other parts of the Americas? Is it still a European disease?


I have spelled out many times what my criteria for my definition is. I am exceedingly confident it can be understood as a statement of the bleeding obvious without any issue by anyone with half a brain. Even you FD. But if you can't be bothered listening and comprehending what I say, then thats not my problem.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #536 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:17pm
 
Quote:
The only sense I can make of this question is that you are accusing me of claiming particular diseases stopped being "Indian" or "Arab" diseases, and somehow became, forever "European diseases". Which I don't believe I did. If you disagree, then I request, again, that you cite me doing so.


I have asked you several times whether they stop being European diseases. Or whether they might actually actually Arab diseases. Perhaps you should answer the question rather than reading accusations into them.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #537 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:23pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:17pm:
I have asked you several times whether they stop being European diseases. Or whether they might actually actually Arab diseases. Perhaps you should answer the question rather than reading accusations into them.


You have asked a silly nonsensical question without once thinking to stop and actually explain what it means. Several times, yes.

Did small pox and the common cold really come from Arabia and/or India? Is that your point FD?

As you say, "lets try again".
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #538 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:25pm
 
Quote:
As you say, "lets try again".


No problem.

When do they stop being European diseases Gandalf?

Let me know if you have trouble understanding the question.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #539 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:44pm
 
Sure FD, I have trouble understanding the question.

Perhaps we can start with what you mean by "they".

Consider yourself "let be known".
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #540 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:47pm
 
The diseases you are talking about when you blame Europeans for millions of deaths.

When do they stop being European diseases Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #541 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 8:56pm
 
I see, future tense.

Its a point in time thing FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #542 - Apr 15th, 2018 at 9:00pm
 
Oh look. An evasive Muslim.

When do they stop being European diseases Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #543 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:26am
 
No really FD, thats a direct answer. It really is a simple application of common sense. You should try it some day.

If an arab person travels to Europe with a disease they contracted in Arabia, its an arab disease. If a European person infects someone in America with a disease they contracted in Europe, its a European disease.

Its really not relevant what happens after that, or even before that. The disease could have been developed on the moon for all I care. Like I said, its a point in time thing.

And it certainly doesn't help when you just fabricate stuff like accusing me of assuming it remains "European" forever, and on that basis its "convenient racism" or whatever.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #544 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:26am:
No really FD, thats a direct answer. It really is a simple application of common sense. You should try it some day.

If an arab person travels to Europe with a disease they contracted in Arabia, its an arab disease. If a European person infects someone in America with a disease they contracted in Europe, its a European disease.

Its really not relevant what happens after that, or even before that. The disease could have been developed on the moon for all I care. Like I said, its a point in time thing.

And it certainly doesn't help when you just fabricate stuff like accusing me of assuming it remains "European" forever, and on that basis its "convenient racism" or whatever.


More Muslim evasion, FD. What do you think of jellyfish who refuse to express their views?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #545 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 7:32pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:26am:
No really FD, thats a direct answer. It really is a simple application of common sense. You should try it some day.

If an arab person travels to Europe with a disease they contracted in Arabia, its an arab disease. If a European person infects someone in America with a disease they contracted in Europe, its a European disease.

Its really not relevant what happens after that, or even before that. The disease could have been developed on the moon for all I care. Like I said, its a point in time thing.

And it certainly doesn't help when you just fabricate stuff like accusing me of assuming it remains "European" forever, and on that basis its "convenient racism" or whatever.


So when you blame Europeans for millions of deaths in the Americas due to European disease, you actually mean millions of individual Europeans each raping individual native Americans and giving the disease to them?

Or is this a very stretchy "point in time"?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #546 - Apr 16th, 2018 at 7:40pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 12:33pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:26am:
No really FD, thats a direct answer. It really is a simple application of common sense. You should try it some day.

If an arab person travels to Europe with a disease they contracted in Arabia, its an arab disease. If a European person infects someone in America with a disease they contracted in Europe, its a European disease.

Its really not relevant what happens after that, or even before that. The disease could have been developed on the moon for all I care. Like I said, its a point in time thing.

And it certainly doesn't help when you just fabricate stuff like accusing me of assuming it remains "European" forever, and on that basis its "convenient racism" or whatever.


More Muslim evasion, FD. What do you think of jellyfish who refuse to express their views?


FD? You've evaded the question.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #547 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 10:27am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 7:32pm:
So when you blame Europeans for millions of deaths in the Americas due to European disease, you actually mean millions of individual Europeans each raping individual native Americans and giving the disease to them?

Or is this a very stretchy "point in time"?


Millions of people died in the Americas because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged their lands. A fair proportion (though I don't know exactly how much) died from diseases spread by the Europeans. But a good deal also from other things like starvation, forced labour and just good old fashioned murder. Are you going to dispute that?

I'll let you argue the toss over who is to "blame" or morally responsible for that.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #548 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 12:00pm
 
Is that a yes or a no gandalf?

Most of the deaths were due to disease.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #549 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 1:45pm
 
I explained what I meant FD. You can't dispute it, thats why you persist with these childish games.

Do you acknowledge millions died because European invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas? Don't worry FD, you are free to evade that like you always do.

Who'd have thought it would be such a trauma to acknowledge the devastation caused by invasion, rape and pillage?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #550 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm
 
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #551 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. But plenty died from other related causes - like starvation, forced labor and just plain murder. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #552 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:06pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.

It wasn't rape and pillage to the Europeans. It was conquest. The same thing humans have been doing since year dot.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #553 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:12pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.

It wasn't rape and pillage to the Europeans. It was conquest. The same thing humans have been doing since year dot.


Yes, Homo, but are you saying they spread European diseases during their conquests, or Arab ones?

Please explain?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #554 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:33pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:12pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:06pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.

It wasn't rape and pillage to the Europeans. It was conquest. The same thing humans have been doing since year dot.


Yes, Homo, but are you saying they spread European diseases during their conquests, or Arab ones?

Please explain?

Not intentionally. Do you sit up all night crying when you pass the flu on to somebody babe?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #555 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:25pm
 
I think I would feel a little guilty if I unintentionally passed the flu to someone in the course of invading and raping and pillaging their land.

Or not. On second thoughts, if I thought it was acceptable to invade and rape and pillage in the first place, or even apologise for it, I probably wouldn't have too many qualms about the diseases spread because of it.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #556 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:38pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
I think I would feel a little guilty if I unintentionally passed the flu to someone in the course of invading and raping and pillaging their land.

Or not. On second thoughts, if I thought it was acceptable to invade and rape and pillage in the first place, or even apologise for it, I probably wouldn't have too many qualms about the diseases spread because of it.

If you can't defend your land then somebody else is going to take it. It's the way it's always been. there's no wrong or right in it. Only point of views. You seem to always back the losing side or some reason.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #557 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:47pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:38pm:
If you can't defend your land then somebody else is going to take it. It's the way it's always been. there's no wrong or right in it. Only point of views.


no issue at all with that sentiment. Its honest.

Far better to just accept it for what it is, rather than mealy mouthed apologising at all costs, to the absurd extent of labelling the simple statement of fact that Europeans are responsible for the death of millions because of their invasions and pillaging - as "conwenient wacism", or whatever other catchy weasel words FD can come up with.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #558 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:51pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:38pm:
If you can't defend your land then somebody else is going to take it. It's the way it's always been. there's no wrong or right in it. Only point of views.


no issue at all with that sentiment. Its honest.

Far better to just accept it for what it is, rather than mealy mouthed apologising at all costs, to the absurd extent of labelling the simple statement of fact that Europeans are responsible for the death of millions because of their invasions and pillaging - as "conwenient wacism", or whatever other catchy weasel words FD can come up with.
Why only mention Europeans? There's not many peoples on earth that haven't raped and pillaged. And passed on the odd disease.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #559 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm
 
Agreed. I condemn all invaders and rapists and pillagers and hold them all responsible for the diseases they spread in the process.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #560 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 7:49pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Agreed. I condemn all invaders and rapists and pillagers and hold them all responsible for the diseases they spread in the process.



What good has Islam brought to any Western country?

Invasion, rape, pillage. nothing positive, no improvements to existing Western societies. Islam's impact is wholly negative on the West. It has never been any different.

You are invited to show us what is positive about Islam in any Western country.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #561 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:08pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:25pm:
I think I would feel a little guilty if I unintentionally passed the flu to someone in the course of invading and raping and pillaging their land.

Or not. On second thoughts, if I thought it was acceptable to invade and rape and pillage in the first place, or even apologise for it, I probably wouldn't have too many qualms about the diseases spread because of it.


What if your smallpox killed off an entire civilisation?

Should we ask Homo, or do you want to say?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #562 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:10pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:51pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:47pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:38pm:
If you can't defend your land then somebody else is going to take it. It's the way it's always been. there's no wrong or right in it. Only point of views.


no issue at all with that sentiment. Its honest.

Far better to just accept it for what it is, rather than mealy mouthed apologising at all costs, to the absurd extent of labelling the simple statement of fact that Europeans are responsible for the death of millions because of their invasions and pillaging - as "conwenient wacism", or whatever other catchy weasel words FD can come up with.
Why only mention Europeans? There's not many peoples on earth that haven't raped and pillaged. And passed on the odd disease.


Good heavens, Homo, this is about the Arabs who spread European diseases by forcing them to invade the tinted races. Haven't you read the posts here?

FD, Homo seems to be ignoring you. Do you want to say it again?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #563 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:17pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 7:49pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Agreed. I condemn all invaders and rapists and pillagers and hold them all responsible for the diseases they spread in the process.


What good has Islam brought to any Western country?


It killed off the entire Sydney Boong population, for a start. Then there's the Aztecs.

What have you Danes brought us, old chap? I'm curious.

Any diseases?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #564 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 10:43pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:17pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 7:49pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Agreed. I condemn all invaders and rapists and pillagers and hold them all responsible for the diseases they spread in the process.


What good has Islam brought to any Western country?


It killed off the entire Sydney Boong population, for a start. Then there's the Aztecs.

What have you Danes brought us, old chap? I'm curious.

Any diseases?

m0ron.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #565 - Apr 17th, 2018 at 11:17pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 10:43pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 9:17pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 7:49pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Agreed. I condemn all invaders and rapists and pillagers and hold them all responsible for the diseases they spread in the process.


What good has Islam brought to any Western country?


It killed off the entire Sydney Boong population, for a start. Then there's the Aztecs.

What have you Danes brought us, old chap? I'm curious.

Any diseases?

m0ron.



That explains that, then. Look at all the marvellous things the Danes have brought to our country.

Spelling.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #566 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:05am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. But plenty died from other related causes - like starvation, forced labor and just plain murder. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.


The vast majority were from introduced diseases. Not all the people who brought these diseases over did so with the intention of raping and pillaging.

Are you conceding that this vast majority did not die from "European diseases", but you still blame Europeans anyway?

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 6:59pm:
Agreed. I condemn all invaders and rapists and pillagers and hold them all responsible for the diseases they spread in the process.


What about Muhammad and his merry band of Islamic terrorists? Or does it not count when Muslims do it?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #567 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 10:01am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:05am:
The vast majority were from introduced diseases.


Who introduced them FD? The invaders perhaps? Hmmm take your time.

freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:05am:
Not all the people who brought these diseases over did so with the intention of raping and pillaging.


Good point FD - many invaders and thieves invaded and thieved with the best of intentions. Its important to acknowledge this.

freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:05am:
Are you conceding that this vast majority did not die from "European diseases", but you still blame Europeans anyway?


I concede that labelling the diseases Europeans brought and introduced to the New World through invasion and theft of land as "European Diseases" is considered "wacism" by at least one person here. I also concede that the same person considers the apportioning of blame to Europeans for the deaths these diseases caused is even worse wacism and simply outrageous.

But most of all I concede that both these claims that this person considers wacist and outrageous are absolutely correct and appropriate.

freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:05am:
What about Muhammad and his merry band of Islamic terrorists? Or does it not count when Muslims do it?


At least we can absolve Muhammad of any blame for the diseases his rapists and pillagers spread. As long as they didn't know they had the diseases of course.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #568 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 12:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:05am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. But plenty died from other related causes - like starvation, forced labor and just plain murder. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.


The vast majority were from introduced diseases. Not all the people who brought these diseases over did so with the intention of raping and pillaging.


That's true, FD. How about those transported as slaves?

They're tinted.

GUILTY.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #569 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 6:36pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. But plenty died from other related causes - like starvation, forced labor and just plain murder. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.



The Chinese gave the world the Black Death. Time to ask them for compo. Oh, and avian flu.


Oh, and shoddy merchandise.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #570 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 7:03pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 6:36pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
freediver wrote on Apr 17th, 2018 at 2:18pm:
Are you conceding that most did not die of European diseases? Does that mean you no longer think Europeans are to blame?


Why would you say that?

Millions died because the Europeans invaded, raped and pillaged the Americas. I don't know the exact breakdown of the deaths, but its reasonable to assume most died from the diseases the Europeans brought and spread. But plenty died from other related causes - like starvation, forced labor and just plain murder. Agreed?

And in case its not clear, I blame Europeans for all of the deaths. Wacist I know.



The Chinese gave the world the Black Death. Time to ask them for compo. Oh, and avian flu.


Oh, and shoddy merchandise.




Good point, dear boy. Perhaps they also gave us British our smallpox to disseminate amongst the tinted races.

But what of the Muselman's responsibility?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #571 - Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:13pm
 
Quote:
Good point FD - many invaders and thieves invaded and thieved with the best of intentions. Its important to acknowledge this.


The Americas were discovered by people seeking a trade route to India.

Quote:
I concede that labelling the diseases Europeans brought and introduced to the New World through invasion and theft of land as "European Diseases" is considered "wacism" by at least one person here. I also concede that the same person considers the apportioning of blame to Europeans for the deaths these diseases caused is even worse wacism and simply outrageous.


Do you still label them as European diseases, or have you realised how little sense that makes?

Do you still blame Europeans for all the deaths?

Did you try to spin the inevitable consequences of the search for trade routes as "rape and pillage" because you always knew the whole "Europeans are to blame for European diseases" thing didn't add up?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #572 - Apr 19th, 2018 at 2:05pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:13pm:
The Americas were discovered by people seeking a trade route to India.


Good point, the invaders and thieves came hot on their heels.

freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 8:13pm:
Do you still label them as European diseases, or have you realised how little sense that makes?

Do you still blame Europeans for all the deaths?


Of course - 'European diseases' is entirely logical and sensible.

And what "all the deaths"? I blame Europeans for all the deaths that resulted from their invasion and pillaging, nothing more, nothing less. What game are you playing here with the cryptic use of the word "all"? Are you trying to subtly slip in the deaths from Genghis Khan or something? 600 innocent jews in one day perhaps?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #573 - Apr 19th, 2018 at 8:07pm
 
Quote:
Good point, the invaders and thieves came hot on their heels.


Does which one introduced the disease affect who you blame?

Quote:
Of course - 'European diseases' is entirely logical and sensible.


So why all the backpedalling? As far as I can tell you now only say they are European up until they get passed on between the natives. You have gone from millions of deaths due to European diseases to defining the term almost out of existence.

Quote:
And what "all the deaths"?


The deaths due to introduced diseases.

Quote:
I blame Europeans for all the deaths that resulted from their invasion and pillaging, nothing more, nothing less.


Do you have any idea which is which?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #574 - Apr 19th, 2018 at 8:23pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 7:03pm:
But what of the Muselman's responsibility?

They gave us you.  You wouldn't exist without Islam, Paki shitehead. Your existence qua Paki shitehead is an unforgivable, horrible consequence of Islam.



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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #575 - Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:16am
 
Frank wrote on Apr 19th, 2018 at 8:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 7:03pm:
But what of the Muselman's responsibility?

They gave us you.  You wouldn't exist without Islam, Paki shitehead. Your existence qua Paki shitehead is an unforgivable, horrible consequence of Islam.





Strange. I'm not a Paki, and I'm not a Muselman. Which part of moi do you find the unforgivable, horrible consequence of Islam always absolutely never ever on stilts, dear boy?

Is it the Voltairean part?

In the words of your poetess, please explain.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #576 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 10:31am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2018 at 8:07pm:
So why all the backpedalling? As far as I can tell you now only say they are European up until they get passed on between the natives. You have gone from millions of deaths due to European diseases to defining the term almost out of existence.


No backpeddling. My definition is the same as its ever been. You even defined it yourself, but curiously now have no idea.

Also, millions of people died due to European diseases - as they raped and pillaged their way through the new world. This is actually an exceedling simple and uncontroversial fact that you cannot in fact dispute, but you will still spare no effort in obfuscating it beyond all meaning as the next best strategy.

As you always do.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #577 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 12:52pm
 
Quote:
Also, millions of people died due to European diseases


Ah, I see we just lost a few pages to your ducking and weaving because we never got a straight answer from you on this:

freediver wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 7:32pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 16th, 2018 at 10:26am:
No really FD, thats a direct answer. It really is a simple application of common sense. You should try it some day.

If an arab person travels to Europe with a disease they contracted in Arabia, its an arab disease. If a European person infects someone in America with a disease they contracted in Europe, its a European disease.

Its really not relevant what happens after that, or even before that. The disease could have been developed on the moon for all I care. Like I said, its a point in time thing.

And it certainly doesn't help when you just fabricate stuff like accusing me of assuming it remains "European" forever, and on that basis its "convenient racism" or whatever.


So when you blame Europeans for millions of deaths in the Americas due to European disease, you actually mean millions of individual Europeans each raping individual native Americans and giving the disease to them?

Or is this a very stretchy "point in time"?


Would you like to have another go?

Can you explain what you actually meant with your "it's a point in time thing"?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #578 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 2:04pm
 
'rape' is a figure of speech FD. I thought that was a pretty obvious point, and I'm almost certain I mentioned it before.

smallpox for example was not spread by individuals literally doing forced sexual intercourse on the people they infected. But it, and many other "European diseases" were spread because individual Europeans were (metaphorically) raping and pillaging the native's land - as in invading, killing, looting and stealing the natives land, and of course enslaving them.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #579 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 2:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 12:52pm:
Can you explain what you actually meant with your "it's a point in time thing"?


Whoever is carrying the disease that then spreads in the new lands "at that point in time". As opposed to ludicrously tracing the origins of the disease through all of history, or worrying about what happens to the disease after the fact.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #580 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 6:39pm
 
Quote:
'rape' is a figure of speech FD. I thought that was a pretty obvious point, and I'm almost certain I mentioned it before.


It's not when I talk about Islam using rape as a nation building tool. I mean literal rape. Just like Muhammad and ISIS. So you should clarify if you are trying to use figurative rape in your moral equivalences.

Quote:
Whoever is carrying the disease that then spreads in the new lands "at that point in time". As opposed to ludicrously tracing the origins of the disease through all of history, or worrying about what happens to the disease after the fact.


When does it stop being a European disease? A straight answer this time, if you don't mind.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #581 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:35pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:16am:
Frank wrote on Apr 19th, 2018 at 8:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 7:03pm:
But what of the Muselman's responsibility?

They gave us you.  You wouldn't exist without Islam, Paki shitehead. Your existence qua Paki shitehead is an unforgivable, horrible consequence of Islam.





Strange. I'm not a Paki, and I'm not a Muselman. Which part of moi do you find the unforgivable, horrible consequence of Islam always absolutely never ever on stilts, dear boy?

Is it the Voltairean part?

In the words of your poetess, please explain.

Oh, but of course you are a Paki and a son of Mohammed.  Everyone knows, even you. In your heart, in your mind you are a Paki son of Mohammed.







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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #582 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 6:39pm:
Quote:
'rape' is a figure of speech FD. I thought that was a pretty obvious point, and I'm almost certain I mentioned it before.


It's not when I talk about Islam using rape as a nation building tool. 



Ummah, ummah
stick it your jumpah.



Rape a s a nation building tool. Only in Islam.


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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #583 - Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:41pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 9:35pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 20th, 2018 at 1:16am:
Frank wrote on Apr 19th, 2018 at 8:23pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Apr 18th, 2018 at 7:03pm:
But what of the Muselman's responsibility?

They gave us you.  You wouldn't exist without Islam, Paki shitehead. Your existence qua Paki shitehead is an unforgivable, horrible consequence of Islam.





Strange. I'm not a Paki, and I'm not a Muselman. Which part of moi do you find the unforgivable, horrible consequence of Islam always absolutely never ever on stilts, dear boy?

Is it the Voltairean part?

In the words of your poetess, please explain.

Oh, but of course you are a Paki and a son of Mohammed.  Everyone knows, even you. In your heart, in your mind you are a Paki son of Mohammed.



So why are you continually howling for Paki/son-of-Moh cock, dear boy?

Everybody knows, even you.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #584 - Apr 27th, 2018 at 10:02am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2018 at 6:39pm:
It's not when I talk about Islam using rape as a nation building tool. I mean literal rape. Just like Muhammad and ISIS. So you should clarify if you are trying to use figurative rape in your moral equivalences.


Good point FD. And while we're on our moral high horse, we should also distinguish the "figurative rapists" from someone who literally wishes a women to be raped with a cactus.

You know, just so we're very clear on the moral equivalences here.

Oh, and I reckon there were a few "literal rapes" in the invasion and pillage of the Americas too - what do you reckon?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #585 - Apr 27th, 2018 at 10:56pm
 
Can you perhaps now give a straight answer on when it stops being a European disease? Try speaking literally.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #586 - Apr 28th, 2018 at 1:26am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 27th, 2018 at 10:56pm:
Can you perhaps now give a straight answer on when it stops being a European disease? Try speaking literally.


Yes, G, stop being so difficult. Try saying what FD wants for a change.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #587 - May 1st, 2018 at 10:07am
 
freediver wrote on Apr 27th, 2018 at 10:56pm:
Can you perhaps now give a straight answer on when it stops being a European disease? Try speaking literally.


I don't know and I don't care. Literally.

It is completely irrelevant to my point. Literally.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #588 - May 1st, 2018 at 6:27pm
 
So you blame Europeans for millions of deaths due to European diseases, but it is not relevant when those diseases stop being European?

Just so long as white people get the blame, right?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #589 - May 1st, 2018 at 7:47pm
 
Quote:
So you blame Europeans for millions of deaths due to European diseases, but it is not relevant when those diseases stop being European?


lol how could it possibly be relevant FD? The disease is already there, its already been introduced and its already spread. Who did that? That's the only relevant question - obviously.

I blame Europeans for bringing over diseases while they invade and rape and pillage. Is that still not quite clear enough for you?

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #590 - May 1st, 2018 at 8:26pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 7:47pm:
Quote:
So you blame Europeans for millions of deaths due to European diseases, but it is not relevant when those diseases stop being European?


lol how could it possibly be relevant FD? The disease is already there, its already been introduced and its already spread. Who did that? That's the only relevant question - obviously.

I blame Europeans for bringing over diseases while they invade and rape and pillage. Is that still not quite clear enough for you?



Try again with a straight answer Gandalf.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #591 - May 1st, 2018 at 8:35pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 7:47pm:
Quote:
So you blame Europeans for millions of deaths due to European diseases, but it is not relevant when those diseases stop being European?


lol how could it possibly be relevant FD? The disease is already there, its already been introduced and its already spread. Who did that? That's the only relevant question - obviously.

I blame Europeans for bringing over diseases while they invade and rape and pillage. Is that still not quite clear enough for you?



Do you mean actual rape, or figurative rape?

It is relevant because it is the basis on which you blame Europeans for millions of deaths. Or do you actually blame them on racial grounds, and the details don't matter?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #592 - May 2nd, 2018 at 2:16pm
 
freediver wrote on May 1st, 2018 at 8:35pm:
it is the basis on which you blame Europeans for millions of deaths.


incorrect. Also, it makes zero sense.

Quote:
Or do you actually blame them on racial grounds, and the details don't matter?


I blame them on 'introducing deadly diseases while they rape and pillage' grounds. Its really that simple FD, try not to over think this.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #593 - May 2nd, 2018 at 3:17pm
 
Does how many deaths you blame white people for depend on how long it remains a European disease after it is introduced?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #594 - May 2nd, 2018 at 4:35pm
 
no.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #595 - May 2nd, 2018 at 5:37pm
 
That doesn't make sense Gandalf.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #596 - May 2nd, 2018 at 5:41pm
 
Here is Gandalf admitting that he is racist:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 4:53pm:
I put two and two together:

1. arabs are poor
2. arabs are retarded

about as racist a statement as you can get.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #597 - May 3rd, 2018 at 4:28pm
 
freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 5:37pm:
That doesn't make sense Gandalf.


I blame Europeans for spreading disease while they invaded, raped and pillaged the new world.

Let me know if you're still having difficulty with that FD. Apparently you think what happens after they invade and rape and pillage is crucially important in determining who is to blame. I won't bother trying to understand such logic. I'll just dismiss it as more "FD logic". All I'll say is, its nonsense.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #598 - May 3rd, 2018 at 4:29pm
 
freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 5:41pm:
Here is Gandalf admitting that he is racist:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 4:53pm:
I put two and two together:

1. arabs are poor
2. arabs are retarded

about as racist a statement as you can get.



Here's FD admitting he has completely lost the plot.

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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #599 - May 3rd, 2018 at 4:40pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 4:28pm:
freediver wrote on May 2nd, 2018 at 5:37pm:
That doesn't make sense Gandalf.


I blame Europeans for spreading disease while they invaded, raped and pillaged the new world.

Let me know if you're still having difficulty with that FD. Apparently you think what happens after they invade and rape and pillage is crucially important in determining who is to blame. I won't bother trying to understand such logic. I'll just dismiss it as more "FD logic". All I'll say is, its nonsense.


I'm trying to figure out where you get the millions of deaths from. You must be applying a long reach of blame, but you cannot say where it ends.

Would you be so eager to apply blame so broadly and vaguely to people who are not white?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #600 - May 3rd, 2018 at 7:32pm
 
freediver wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 4:40pm:
m trying to


...spinelessly apologise for deaths caused by invasion and rape and pillage - yes we know FD.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #601 - May 3rd, 2018 at 9:11pm
 
Have you ever blamed people who aren't white for this sort of thing Gandalf?
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #602 - May 4th, 2018 at 11:33am
 
freediver wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 9:11pm:
Have you ever blamed people who aren't white for this sort of thing Gandalf?


For deaths caused by invasion and rape and pillage? Of course not FD, thats cause I'm such a dispicable wacist.
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Re: Islam-inspired racism
Reply #603 - May 4th, 2018 at 11:36am
 
Here's G admitting he's a despicable wacist.

polite_gandalf wrote on May 4th, 2018 at 11:33am:
freediver wrote on May 3rd, 2018 at 9:11pm:
Have you ever blamed people who aren't white for this sort of thing Gandalf?


For deaths caused by invasion and rape and pillage? Of course not FD, thats cause I'm such a dispicable wacist.

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