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Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation (Read 1379 times)
BigOl64
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #30 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:35pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
I am all for lower taxes - perhaps using the money saved to lower personal income tax.   I just dont think we should socialize people's investment decisions.  I do not want a culture that people to invest to make a loss to minimize their tax liability.  It distorts the market, and goes against the free market principal of conservative economic.

For example, no one in their right mind would invest 500K into a business that generate loss each year (and no one would pay more to buy it off you a year later).  They are doing that now, because, they would suffer the loss now, and make a larger capital gain later on.   I am not against savy investors for doing this, but I am against, subsidizing their losses  now, and then give them a bigger capital gains tax concession in the future when they do make a profit.   To me, its just double dipping. 

This also creates an environment of property speculation.  Where the investors invest not for its principal to income ratio, but rather speculation of future gains.  This opens up a big problem down the road, when eventually, property prices have to readjust. 

Now, you mention about shares.  Say you have a next door neighbor, he earns the same as you are.  But he wanted to get rich quick, and put 100k into a small obscure prospecting company.  But it went sour, and he lost half of it.  Now, this means, in order to make the short fall on the revenue, the government need to raise more money from you.  How would you feel about it?  Cool



I think we view taxes very differently

I see all taxes paid by me as my money until I reconcile at the end of the year, and whatever I can't claw back is 'gone' money, but  what is is mine is mine.


You may see it as all taxes paid as the governments money and tax write offs / returns as dubious accounting practice design to rip off the government.


I begrudge every cent taken from me, as a vast majority of that money is p1ssed away on failed and imprudent ventures.


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tickleandrose
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #31 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:54pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
I am all for lower taxes - perhaps using the money saved to lower personal income tax.   I just dont think we should socialize people's investment decisions.  I do not want a culture that people to invest to make a loss to minimize their tax liability.  It distorts the market, and goes against the free market principal of conservative economic.

For example, no one in their right mind would invest 500K into a business that generate loss each year (and no one would pay more to buy it off you a year later).  They are doing that now, because, they would suffer the loss now, and make a larger capital gain later on.   I am not against savy investors for doing this, but I am against, subsidizing their losses  now, and then give them a bigger capital gains tax concession in the future when they do make a profit.   To me, its just double dipping. 

This also creates an environment of property speculation.  Where the investors invest not for its principal to income ratio, but rather speculation of future gains.  This opens up a big problem down the road, when eventually, property prices have to readjust. 

Now, you mention about shares.  Say you have a next door neighbor, he earns the same as you are.  But he wanted to get rich quick, and put 100k into a small obscure prospecting company.  But it went sour, and he lost half of it.  Now, this means, in order to make the short fall on the revenue, the government need to raise more money from you.  How would you feel about it?  Cool



I think we view taxes very differently

I see all taxes paid by me as my money until I reconcile at the end of the year, and whatever I can't claw back is 'gone' money, but  what is is mine is mine.


You may see it as all taxes paid as the governments money and tax write offs / returns as dubious accounting practice design to rip off the government.


I begrudge every cent taken from me, as a vast majority of that money is p1ssed away on failed and imprudent ventures.




Oh no no, I don't view tax write off as dubious accounting practice.  At the moment, the negative gearing is legal. So anyone can do it.  I just question if it fits under the model of free market, small government conservative economics.

Hey, I understand your predicament.  Those pesky 3 monthly GST statement that does your head in.  Luckily, most of our business income is GST free, so we get a good amount of money returned.   Smiley
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BigOl64
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #32 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:57pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:54pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:35pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
I am all for lower taxes - perhaps using the money saved to lower personal income tax.   I just dont think we should socialize people's investment decisions.  I do not want a culture that people to invest to make a loss to minimize their tax liability.  It distorts the market, and goes against the free market principal of conservative economic.

For example, no one in their right mind would invest 500K into a business that generate loss each year (and no one would pay more to buy it off you a year later).  They are doing that now, because, they would suffer the loss now, and make a larger capital gain later on.   I am not against savy investors for doing this, but I am against, subsidizing their losses  now, and then give them a bigger capital gains tax concession in the future when they do make a profit.   To me, its just double dipping. 

This also creates an environment of property speculation.  Where the investors invest not for its principal to income ratio, but rather speculation of future gains.  This opens up a big problem down the road, when eventually, property prices have to readjust. 

Now, you mention about shares.  Say you have a next door neighbor, he earns the same as you are.  But he wanted to get rich quick, and put 100k into a small obscure prospecting company.  But it went sour, and he lost half of it.  Now, this means, in order to make the short fall on the revenue, the government need to raise more money from you.  How would you feel about it?  Cool



I think we view taxes very differently

I see all taxes paid by me as my money until I reconcile at the end of the year, and whatever I can't claw back is 'gone' money, but  what is is mine is mine.


You may see it as all taxes paid as the governments money and tax write offs / returns as dubious accounting practice design to rip off the government.


I begrudge every cent taken from me, as a vast majority of that money is p1ssed away on failed and imprudent ventures.




Oh no no, I don't view tax write off as dubious accounting practice.  At the moment, the negative gearing is legal. So anyone can do it.  I just question if it fits under the model of free market, small government conservative economics.

Hey, I understand your predicament.  Those pesky 3 monthly GST statement that does your head in.  Luckily, most of our business income is GST free, so we get a good amount of money returned.   Smiley



Im no longer in business, but I didn't mind all the paperwork and such, I just hate handing one cent more than I have to.


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Auggie
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #33 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:01pm
 
The maximum any one person, couple or family should pay as income tax is 20% of that income, and no more. Everyone pays the same rate of tax, and in the event of emergencies, the Parliament can increase taxes but only for a specified limited amount of time.
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #34 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:02pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:07am:
I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't wasted without a care in the world, 'they can always take more'.


Watching the government spend my money is like watching a big dog taking a sh1t on the carpet while staring at you straight in the eye.


Yo can yell at it, but you know it is going to finish off rather than stop.



I wouldnt m ind the gay brigade being TAXED double to pay for this bloody postal having gone out of their way to block everything the libs wanted to do  just to be bloody minded   makes my blood boil...so yeah I will vote YES to taxing them double to repay those who dont give a toss if they marry.
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #35 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:10pm
 
cods wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:02pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:07am:
I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't wasted without a care in the world, 'they can always take more'.


Watching the government spend my money is like watching a big dog taking a sh1t on the carpet while staring at you straight in the eye.


Yo can yell at it, but you know it is going to finish off rather than stop.



I wouldnt m ind the gay brigade being TAXED double to pay for this bloody postal having gone out of their way to block everything the libs wanted to do  just to be bloody minded   makes my blood boil...so yeah I will vote YES to taxing them double to repay those who dont give a toss if they marry.


Should all republicans be double taxed for a republican referendum?
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cods
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #36 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:26pm
 
Auggie wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
cods wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:02pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:07am:
I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't wasted without a care in the world, 'they can always take more'.


Watching the government spend my money is like watching a big dog taking a sh1t on the carpet while staring at you straight in the eye.


Yo can yell at it, but you know it is going to finish off rather than stop.



I wouldnt m ind the gay brigade being TAXED double to pay for this bloody postal having gone out of their way to block everything the libs wanted to do  just to be bloody minded   makes my blood boil...so yeah I will vote YES to taxing them double to repay those who dont give a toss if they marry.


Should all republicans be double taxed for a republican referendum?




nope because that affects everyone.. this only affect a small percentage and they have blocked just about every thing that has gone through the house.. wasting time and money left right and centre...

now they have the hide to scream we are all homophobic if we dont do their bidding..


I do not see any Republicans jumping up and down pointing fingers calling people names  for disagreeing with them....and no one blocked the ref.on its the first time round..

there is a huge difference.

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Auggie
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #37 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:46pm
 
cods wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:26pm:
Auggie wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:10pm:
cods wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:02pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:07am:
I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't wasted without a care in the world, 'they can always take more'.


Watching the government spend my money is like watching a big dog taking a sh1t on the carpet while staring at you straight in the eye.


Yo can yell at it, but you know it is going to finish off rather than stop.



I wouldnt m ind the gay brigade being TAXED double to pay for this bloody postal having gone out of their way to block everything the libs wanted to do  just to be bloody minded   makes my blood boil...so yeah I will vote YES to taxing them double to repay those who dont give a toss if they marry.


Should all republicans be double taxed for a republican referendum?




nope because that affects everyone.. this only affect a small percentage and they have blocked just about every thing that has gone through the house.. wasting time and money left right and centre...

now they have the hide to scream we are all homophobic if we dont do their bidding..


I do not see any Republicans jumping up and down pointing fingers calling people names  for disagreeing with them....and no one blocked the ref.on its the first time round..

there is a huge difference.



Rubbish. Those who support the monarchy have been called all sorts of names: "sell outs" etc.

The SSM marriage issue is about equality before the law. Do you not believe in this principal?
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The_Barnacle
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #38 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 9:58pm
 
cods wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:02pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 11:07am:
I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't wasted without a care in the world, 'they can always take more'.


Watching the government spend my money is like watching a big dog taking a sh1t on the carpet while staring at you straight in the eye.


Yo can yell at it, but you know it is going to finish off rather than stop.



I wouldnt m ind the gay brigade being TAXED double to pay for this bloody postal having gone out of their way to block everything the libs wanted to do  just to be bloody minded   makes my blood boil...so yeah I will vote YES to taxing them double to repay those who dont give a toss if they marry.


What a stupid thing to say cods
The only reason this is costing us millions of dollars is because Tony Abbott came up with the absurd idea of a non binding plebiscite.
If the government had the balls to actually make a decision themselves (isn't that what they are paid for?) This whole thing wouldn't cost a cent.
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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The_Barnacle
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #39 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 10:00pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 10:22am:
This is thing about pure capitalist is that when the going gets tough, they turn to the biggest socialist.   They tend to privatize their profits, and socialize their losses.  Before you guys talk down to socialism, may be you should perhaps pay the billions of bail out money (or negative gearing) back to the people. 


And lets not forget the billions used to bail out the overseas banks during the GFC because they were "too big to fail". 
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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John Smith
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #40 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 10:06pm
 
cods wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:26pm:
. this only affect a small percentage and they have blocked just about every thing that has gone through the house.


rubbish. The only ones blocking everything are the ones trying to prevent gay marriage. The gays are happy to let parliament decide, instead of an opinion poll, the way they're supposed to.
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #41 - Aug 16th, 2017 at 11:32pm
 
John Smith wrote on Aug 16th, 2017 at 10:06pm:
cods wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 3:26pm:
. this only affect a small percentage and they have blocked just about every thing that has gone through the house.


rubbish. The only ones blocking everything are the ones trying to prevent gay marriage. The gays are happy to let parliament decide, instead of an opinion poll, the way they're supposed to.


Divine Right Of Elected Government, smith - once you abrogate and forfeit your individual right to tell government what it can and cannot dictate - you are running the razor across your grand-kid's necks...

What part of history tells you otherwise?  Italy?  Germany?  Russia?  Cambodia? Japan?  America - North and South?  England?  New South Wales?

Are you prepared to bow down in a feudal manner and pledge obeisance to your overlord, the State, and thus accept all of its decrees or be declared rebel or outlaw?  Or are you a king in your own right in your own home and castle, and are thus entitled, in a democratic institution, to tell the State where its powers end?

Get your thinking out of the Dark Ages and the medieval times, boy.... damn, you Italians STILL got no balls...

'same sex marriage' is a mole sent to undermine the institution of the Right of the People to dictate to the government - and NOT the other way around.

It seems you've missed most of the past forty years in this once-fine nation..... I weep for you and your descendants...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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miketrees
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #42 - Aug 17th, 2017 at 6:24am
 


We pay taxes for government services.

The tax system we have means some people pay for services, other people don't pay for services.

Of the people that pay for services, they all pay different rates for the same service.

Its not progressive or fair,,, its the tax system.

I wish people would be more honest,,, its NOT a fair system
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aquascoot
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #43 - Aug 17th, 2017 at 7:09am
 
all these things are there to f**ck with your mind.

humans have a natural tendency to not waste energy (another way of saying this is that laziness is the default).

if you get welfare, your reptilian brain will be happy, you will achieve nothing and you are screwed.

if you are working but in lower consciousness (being run by your reptilian brain), you will look at those on welfare and get envious or angry because you dont want to work either.

Dont be tricked. if you go down that path , you also are screwed.

the only way to move up is to face challenges,
challenges cause the growth.

your reptilian brain doesnt seek out challenges.
but your higher consciousness does.

get in tune with higher consciousness.

the ammount of opportunities out there for growth is unbelievable.

you can travel the world, climb everest, do it all...but most people will do none of it.

if you fall into the trap of wanting to get stuff without facing a challenge (the socialist model) or if you resist city hall and get all butt hurt about paying taxes (the angry rightie model), then you are screwed.
you are spinning your wheels, you are going nowhere, you will achieve nothing of your potential.
life is over in a blink.

you have this happy childhood where your parents create a false reality
then you hit high school and you either get bullied or you are the bully.
then you heal from the wounds of this and you have to decide what do you want out of life.
and then you pick something that it means, some north star and you go for it.

most people miss step 3.
they stay in scarcity and never really grow up.
pensioners still wanting to suck on societies titties.
retirees still all butt hurt because they have to pay taxes , like some child chucking a tantrum.

if you have no north star, you have no boundaries and you will just wander the earth in a soup seeking ways to have your default emotional state triggered.
if you are a complainer or a sook or outraged, you just wrote off your life.
you got none of the value out of it.
all the great religions point to his one fact.

render unto ceasar what is caesars and then get on with having an awesome life.

if you cant have an awesome life in australia in 2017, you are a f***king disgrace
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