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Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation (Read 870 times)
BigOl64
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #15 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:40pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:07pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:52pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
They would be the socialists, born with their hand out first.  Smiley Smiley




Name one country that doesn't have a progressive taxation system.





Irrelevant, my comment still stands regardless of the answer


That's because it is ideological nonsense that would never work in the real world.



Wait, what?


That socialist are constantly demanding other people's money to fund whatever lifestyle choice du juor, is ideological nonsense I agree, but what are ya gonna do?


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Redmond Neck
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #16 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:51pm
 
Swagman wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:07pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
They would be the socialists, born with their hand out first.  Smiley Smiley




Name one country that doesn't have a progressive taxation system.




The nation of Swagmania


Sounds like an oligarchy run by a credit manager to me!!

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Dnarever
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #17 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:55pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:40pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:07pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:52pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
They would be the socialists, born with their hand out first.  Smiley Smiley




Name one country that doesn't have a progressive taxation system.





Irrelevant, my comment still stands regardless of the answer


That's because it is ideological nonsense that would never work in the real world.



Wait, what?


That socialist are constantly demanding other people's money to fund whatever lifestyle choice du juor, is ideological nonsense I agree, but what are ya gonna do?




What socialists we haven't had one of those for many decades.
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BigOl64
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #18 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:57pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:55pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:40pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:07pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:52pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:49pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 12:38pm:
They would be the socialists, born with their hand out first.  Smiley Smiley




Name one country that doesn't have a progressive taxation system.





Irrelevant, my comment still stands regardless of the answer


That's because it is ideological nonsense that would never work in the real world.



Wait, what?


That socialist are constantly demanding other people's money to fund whatever lifestyle choice du juor, is ideological nonsense I agree, but what are ya gonna do?




What socialists we haven't had one of those for many decades.



Jeez, is this where you are going.

Yeah, good one, fkken clown

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Sir Bobby
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #19 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:05pm
 
100s of 1000s of people have gone to Centerlink to
claim the dole or DSP after they lost their job,
after working & paying taxes all their lives
and were told they weren't entitled to a penny.

Centerlink has a book called -
1001 reasons not to give you a penny.

Anyway - life is full of injustices.
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gandalf
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #20 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 2:23pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 1:26pm:
The only real redistribution through taxation I have seen was the tax reductions at the top end paid for by everyone else during the Howard years.


But D, the top end should be paying zero tax - not a penny. I mean, the bottom end don't pay any right?

Oh the injustice. Its as swag says - slavery, pure and simple.
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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thecuriousmail
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #21 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 4:16pm
 
There is no serious political will for wealth re-distribution.
Wealth manipulates power, and will always seek to maintain its own interests and position.
200 of australia's richest people paid no income tax, not even the medicare levy.
And then a political silence, but there are diversions cynically designed to focus people's attention elsewhere.
History shows there is only one way to successfully re-distribute wealth.
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tickleandrose
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #22 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 10:22am
 
This is thing about pure capitalist is that when the going gets tough, they turn to the biggest socialist.   They tend to privatize their profits, and socialize their losses.  Before you guys talk down to socialism, may be you should perhaps pay the billions of bail out money (or negative gearing) back to the people. 
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #23 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:37pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 10:22am:
This is thing about pure capitalist is that when the going gets tough, they turn to the biggest socialist.   They tend to privatize their profits, and socialize their losses.  Before you guys talk down to socialism, may be you should perhaps pay the billions of bail out money (or negative gearing) back to the people. 


I highly recommend watching The Big Short - about the start of the GFC. The causes of this was not merely immoral behaviour, it was illegal activity on an industrial scale. And after all that, one single person went to gaol for it - and he was a small fry. All the big players not only didn't get penalised for their criminality, they enjoyed big fat bonuses courtesy of the great government bailout package. It was the poor people of course who wore the cost of it all. And no one should expect anything different under capitalism.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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BigOl64
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #24 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:50pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 10:22am:
This is thing about pure capitalist is that when the going gets tough, they turn to the biggest socialist.   They tend to privatize their profits, and socialize their losses.  Before you guys talk down to socialism, may be you should perhaps pay the billions of bail out money (or negative gearing) back to the people. 



You do realise the the money received from negative gearing is that person's own money don't you?


It is isn't someone else's money like welfare recipients get it is a tax write off that is returned from the fat stack of cash the person has already paid in taxes.


Is this something that you people don't understand, because you seem to think the refund is coming out of someone else's pocket. It isn't.


Now you can b1tch and moan about un-reconciled bail out money all you want, but negative gearing is not even close to the same thing, it is a tax write off, same and any tax write off that you may claim.

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tickleandrose
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #25 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:05pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:50pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 10:22am:
This is thing about pure capitalist is that when the going gets tough, they turn to the biggest socialist.   They tend to privatize their profits, and socialize their losses.  Before you guys talk down to socialism, may be you should perhaps pay the billions of bail out money (or negative gearing) back to the people. 



You do realise the the money received from negative gearing is that person's own money don't you?


It is isn't someone else's money like welfare recipients get it is a tax write off that is returned from the fat stack of cash the person has already paid in taxes.


Is this something that you people don't understand, because you seem to think the refund is coming out of someone else's pocket. It isn't.


Now you can b1tch and moan about un-reconciled bail out money all you want, but negative gearing is not even close to the same thing, it is a tax write off, same and any tax write off that you may claim.



If you like to be strict about it, then all tax money are people's own money anyway.   If I run a business, and make a loss.  I will not be able to off set that loss against my main income.  I will however, get it in a form of tax credit against future gains when my business do start to make money. 

With properties however, this loss can be off set against my other main income through negative gearing.  So in a way, we are socializing people's investment loss with revenues that otherwise would have been gained if its another business other than property investment.

This creates an inequality in terms of risk between different investments.  Which in term, creates an environment where the banks would tolerate more risks with property investment than other smaller business investment types.  And this can have flow on effects to the economy - through higher interest rates and principal requirement. 

For example, it is alot easier to get an investment loan on a 500k property, upto 400k in loan, at a lower interest rate, than it is to say getting a loan to start a small business of 200k. 

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BigOl64
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #26 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:14pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:05pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 1:50pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 10:22am:
This is thing about pure capitalist is that when the going gets tough, they turn to the biggest socialist.   They tend to privatize their profits, and socialize their losses.  Before you guys talk down to socialism, may be you should perhaps pay the billions of bail out money (or negative gearing) back to the people. 



You do realise the the money received from negative gearing is that person's own money don't you?


It is isn't someone else's money like welfare recipients get it is a tax write off that is returned from the fat stack of cash the person has already paid in taxes.


Is this something that you people don't understand, because you seem to think the refund is coming out of someone else's pocket. It isn't.


Now you can b1tch and moan about un-reconciled bail out money all you want, but negative gearing is not even close to the same thing, it is a tax write off, same and any tax write off that you may claim.



If you like to be strict about it, then all tax money are people's own money anyway.   If I run a business, and make a loss.  I will not be able to off set that loss against my main income.  I will however, get it in a form of tax credit against future gains when my business do start to make money. 

With properties however, this loss can be off set against my other main income through negative gearing.  So in a way, we are socializing people's investment loss with revenues that otherwise would have been gained if its another business other than property investment.

This creates an inequality in terms of risk between different investments.  Which in term, creates an environment where the banks would tolerate more risks with property investment than other smaller business investment types.  And this can have flow on effects to the economy - through higher interest rates and principal requirement. 

For example, it is alot easier to get an investment loan on a 500k property, upto 400k in loan, at a lower interest rate, than it is to say getting a loan to start a small business of 200k. 




You can take out a loan t buy shares and write that off loss and associated costs, thoughts?



We have one of the most complex tax systems anywhere, but what our biggest problem is that everyone wants someone else to foot the bill.

You want mum and dad investors to pay more tax so someone else can get some more free money, a fantastic system if you are on the receiving end of such largess.


Taxpayers who get a tax refund are NOT a burden on the system, people who get more in handouts than the contribute in income tax, absolutely are.


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BigOl64
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #27 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:16pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:05pm:
If you like to be strict about it, then all tax money are people's own money anyway.   If I run a business, and make a loss.  I will not be able to off set that loss against my main income.  I will however, get it in a form of tax credit against future gains when my business do start to make money. 





Most business owners have their business income as their main income, I know I did.


But if you are talking about someone who sells sh1t in ebay, then yeah you are right, but jeezus.


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tickleandrose
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #28 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:21pm
 
I am all for lower taxes - perhaps using the money saved to lower personal income tax.   I just dont think we should socialize people's investment decisions.  I do not want a culture that people to invest to make a loss to minimize their tax liability.  It distorts the market, and goes against the free market principal of conservative economic.

For example, no one in their right mind would invest 500K into a business that generate loss each year (and no one would pay more to buy it off you a year later).  They are doing that now, because, they would suffer the loss now, and make a larger capital gain later on.   I am not against savy investors for doing this, but I am against, subsidizing their losses  now, and then give them a bigger capital gains tax concession in the future when they do make a profit.   To me, its just double dipping. 

This also creates an environment of property speculation.  Where the investors invest not for its principal to income ratio, but rather speculation of future gains.  This opens up a big problem down the road, when eventually, property prices have to readjust. 

Now, you mention about shares.  Say you have a next door neighbor, he earns the same as you are.  But he wanted to get rich quick, and put 100k into a small obscure prospecting company.  But it went sour, and he lost half of it.  Now, this means, in order to make the short fall on the revenue, the government need to raise more money from you.  How would you feel about it?  Cool
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tickleandrose
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Re: Wealth Redistribution Through Taxation
Reply #29 - Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:25pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:16pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 14th, 2017 at 2:05pm:
If you like to be strict about it, then all tax money are people's own money anyway.   If I run a business, and make a loss.  I will not be able to off set that loss against my main income.  I will however, get it in a form of tax credit against future gains when my business do start to make money. 





Most business owners have their business income as their main income, I know I did.


But if you are talking about someone who sells sh1t in ebay, then yeah you are right, but jeezus.




Then you should not have a problem if your business income is your main sourse of income.  Because any losses you make, you can offset against your income.   However, if you use your money earned to try to make more money from another source, then it is you who have to do your own homework to see if the business/investment would make you money or losses.   The tax payers cant be there to off set your poor business decisions.

Since you also own a small business, then negative gearing affect you as well directly.  Because when most investment money are tied up with property speculation, the cost of business loans for other businesses such as yours would naturally be higher through higher interest rate charges.
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