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Poll Poll
Question: Do you support this law? [Vic RARTA 2001 S25(2)]

Yes    
  4 (44.4%)
No    
  5 (55.6%)
Undecided    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 9
« Created by: freediver on: Sep 6th, 2017 at 6:55pm »

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Blair Cottrel (Read 36083 times)
freediver
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #60 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:14pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 3:19pm:
Quote:
In a recent discussion with Gandalf, Gandalf expressed his support for charging the Muslims holding up the beheading placards. I disagreed with him. Unlike you, I am consistent in my views.


Well by "recent" you mean about 4 years ago, but anyway...

Australian law is very clear on incitement to violence. When you get a bunch of rampaging thugs being violent - then yes, the slogan "behead those who insult the prophet" in that context could (and should) be interpreted as incitement. This is obviously very different to a peaceful protest in which protesters are calmly calling for the death penalty for blasphemy - regardless of how distasteful we find it. Context is everything.


It seems like only yesterday Gandalf. Seeing as you went to the trouble of tracking down the discussion, would you mind posting a link for John so he can stop projecting his hypocrisy onto me?

Also, are you saying that whether a person commits a crime by putting their favourite Islamic hadith on a placard depends on the actions of other people after they turn up? Where does the law clearly state this?
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #61 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:18pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Do you think anyone who promotes hatred should be jailed?


John Smith wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
I think anyone promoting hatred deserves to go to jail. I don't care what religion they are.


freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Should people be jailed for promoting hatred of Nazis?


John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:03pm:
yep

freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Do you support this law regardless of who is being charged under it?



freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Do you support this law regardless of who is being charged under it?


John Smith wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 8:44pm:
In this case, yes.

and
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 6:16pm:
I told you I didn't have a problem with the law (2 or 3 times).



freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Or only people you see as "promoting hatred"?

John Smith wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
I think
anyone
promoting hatred deserves to go to jail.


freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Why is the promotion of hatred even relevant to whether you support the law?

cause that's what they're in effect doing with their actions



as you can see FD, every question, with the exception of the last one which is a new one, was answered, in most cases multiple times.

Now can you show me where this contradiction is? I'm still waiting and bobby is about to explode in anticipation of you showing me how i contradicted myself.
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #62 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:21pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
Seeing as you went to the trouble of tracking down the discussion, would you mind posting a link for John so he can stop projecting his hypocrisy onto me?




you need to stop using what other people say and pretending it's my argument. You'd be much better served if you concentrated on what I SAY. you seem to struggle enough with that as it is.Trying to remember what gandalf said 4 yrs ago. No wonder you're confused Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #63 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm
 
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?

Quote:
In this case, yes.


In what case? Blair Cottrel's?

Quote:
as you can see FD, every question, with the exception of the last one which is a new one, was answered, in most cases multiple times.


You answered it once, and you quoted two different questions. Thanks for giving a straight answer. It only took three pages. I think that's a record for you.
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #64 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:26pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?


it's not your night is it? you're struggling so much with what I said tonight, take my advice and don't even go with what I didn't say Grin Grin Grin




still waiting for you to show me where I contradicted myself?
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #65 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?

Quote:
In this case, yes.


In what case? Blair Cottrel's?


that was what you were asking about at the time.
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #66 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:28pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?

Quote:
In this case, yes.


In what case? Blair Cottrel's?


that was what you were asking about at the time.


So whether you support this law depends on the particular case being prosecuted under it?

BTW, you avoided the question again. Do try to give a straight answer John. Here it is again: In what case? Blair Cottrel's?

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?


it's not your night is it? you're struggling so much with what I said tonight, take my advice and don't even go with what I didn't say Grin Grin Grin




still waiting for you to show me where I contradicted myself?


Should it be illegal to make fun of religious people?

Quote:
still waiting for you to show me where I contradicted myself?


My bad. You are still stuck on the incredibly stupid phase. Sooner or later you will contradict yourself by thinking before responding.
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #67 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:28pm:
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?

Quote:
In this case, yes.


In what case? Blair Cottrel's?


that was what you were asking about at the time.


So whether you support this law depends on the particular case being prosecuted under it?


ohh for fkks sake. WHy don't you read all of what I said, not pick out two words and running with it. It's getting tiring having to repeat myself 100 times.



John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:18pm:
and

John Smith wrote Today at 7:16pm:
I told you I didn't have a problem with the law (2 or 3 times).


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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #68 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:33pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?

Quote:
In this case, yes.


In what case? Blair Cottrel's?


that was what you were asking about at the time.


So whether you support this law depends on the particular case being prosecuted under it?

BTW, you avoided the question again. Do try to give a straight answer John. I ask again, because every time I assume you are making sense you prove me wrong. In what case? Blair Cottrel's?

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:26pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?


it's not your night is it? you're struggling so much with what I said tonight, take my advice and don't even go with what I didn't say Grin Grin Grin


Should it be illegal to make fun of religious people?

Quote:
still waiting for you to show me where I contradicted myself?


My bad. You are still stuck on the incredibly stupid phase. Sooner or later you will contradict yourself by thinking before responding.

ohh for fkks sake. WHy don't you read all of what I said, not pick out two words and running with it. It's getting tiring having to repeat myself 100 times.

So why did you qualify your answer with "in this case" John?
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #69 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Should it be illegal to make fun of religious people?


now we're moving onto making fun off ehh.

No, I don't think any subject is out of bounds as far as humour goes.

let me guess, this is where you're going to pretend cottrel was joking? Cheesy Cheesy

freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:28pm:
My bad. You are still stuck on the incredibly stupid phase. Sooner or later you will contradict yourself by thinking before responding.


you shouldn't comment on stupidity with your track record tonight. If I'm stupid, just howdo you think you look that you have to misrepresent what I say to try and win? surely a genius like you would be able to win one without having to lie about what i said?? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #70 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:37pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:34pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Should it be illegal to make fun of religious people?


No, I don't think any subject is out of bounds as far as humour goes.


Here is that law again John: A person must not, on the ground of the religious belief or activity of another person or class of persons, knowingly engage in conduct with the intention of inciting serious contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.

Are you sure you support this law absolutely?

John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:27pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:23pm:
So you think it should be illegal to make fun of religious people, because they are "in effect" promoting hatred?

Quote:
In this case, yes.


In what case? Blair Cottrel's?


that was what you were asking about at the time.


So whether you support this law depends on the particular case being prosecuted under it?

BTW, you avoided the question again. Do try to give a straight answer John. I ask again, because every time I assume you are making sense you prove me wrong. In what case? Blair Cottrel's?

Quote:
ohh for fkks sake. WHy don't you read all of what I said, not pick out two words and running with it. It's getting tiring having to repeat myself 100 times.


So why did you qualify your answer with "in this case" John?
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #71 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:37pm:
Are you sure you support this law absolutely?


yep .... pretty much. I'm pretty sure that courts look at intent in these matters. If they start charging comedians I might review my decision, but until then, I stand by my decision.
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #72 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:37pm:
So why did you qualify your answer with "in this case" John?


you asked about a specific case. Thats what my answer at the time was about.

I later added that I supported this law, without qualifying it. But for some reason you pretended not to see that. TWICE.
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #73 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:47pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:39pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:37pm:
John Smith wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:34pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:28pm:
Should it be illegal to make fun of religious people?


No, I don't think any subject is out of bounds as far as humour goes.


Here is that law again John: A person must not, on the ground of the religious belief or activity of another person or class of persons, knowingly engage in conduct with the intention of inciting serious contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.

Are you sure you support this law absolutely?


yep .... pretty much. I'm pretty sure that courts look at intent in these matters.


Duh. Here, I will highlight it for you:

A person must not, on the ground of the religious belief or activity of another person or class of persons, knowingly engage in conduct with the intention of inciting serious contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.

So, your position is that you think it should not be illegal to make fund of religious people, but you absolutely support this law, because the courts will take into consideration whether the perpetrator intended to incite severe ridicule of religious people?

Quote:
If they start charging comedians I might review my decision, but until then, I stand by my decision.


And you support this law regardless of who it is applied to, because you will change your mind if it is applied to people who you don't want it applied to?

All this because you support the law, not based on what it for forbids people from actually doing, but on what you think it forbids them from "effectively doing"?

Do you see the self contradictions yet John?

Do you really think it is a good idea to have a law that says one thing but is applied on a completely different basis?

Would you actually support someone being put in jail for encouraging hatred of Nazis, or would common sense kick in? No wonder you are so eager to defend Muslims.
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Re: Blair Cottrel
Reply #74 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 8:57pm
 

here we go again

why do you do this with every sentence? I support the law. No matter how often you ask, or whether you agree or not, I support the law. I gave you my opinion of the humour side of it, you can accept it or not. I'm not going to keep repeating myself for another 5 pages just because you can't accept it.
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