Australian Politics Forum - Fixed four year terms

Auggie

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The Bull Moose

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #15 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:02pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 2:56pm:

Bad enough States get 4 years but federally it would be a total disaster.

Nope 3 is enough.
They want more they can win the next election.

As for the Senate they can have 3 years too, none of this 6 crap.

Democracy, will of the people and all that.

You can't do anything in 3 years G. You can stuff up a country in one year but you can't fix it 3.

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Grendel

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #16 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:02pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:55pm:

All members please note that I've have proposed such reforms on this forum before.

Seems I'm not that crazy after all.

And Aussie, no senators won't be elected for 8 years; they'll all be elected at the same time.

Really...?
Well so have many of us.

My contribution to electoral reform was
Optional Preferential Voting.
Non-Compulsory Voting.
4 Year Terms.
CIR.

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Aussie

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #17 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:06pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:55pm:

All members please note that I've have proposed such reforms on this forum before.

Seems I'm not that crazy after all.

And Aussie, no senators won't be elected for 8 years; they'll all be elected at the same time.

Incorrect, initially, some will have four years, others will have eight.......and I hasten to add that I am relying on comments made on the Insiders this morning.

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thecuriousmail

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #18 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:10pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:59pm:

thecuriousmail wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:52pm:

No to an increase.
The argument that longer term periods equals better planning/decision making has proof where?? Garbage in and garbage out is not time span dependent.
For a start, governments actually need to communicate their intentions better now (they are loathe to do this, as they may need to make a political compromise along the way, so do not want to put forward any kind of public long-term plan which they may later amend).

They're loathe to do it because they can't do anything in 3 years.

You need to think of 3 year terms as 3 budgets. You can't get anything done with 3 budgets. 4 or 5 years means the government can better plan long term.

And the proof is where?
One often hears that such-and-such government was "tired/stale/broken etc" after X number of years. This 'X" number of years is not fixed, and the longer the term, the longer the torture. indeed some governments even seem to begin as dysfunctional. Would a longer term turn a dysfunctional government into a functional government?

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"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein

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Dnarever

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #19 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:11pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 2:56pm:

Bad enough States get 4 years but federally it would be a total disaster.

Nope 3 is enough.
They want more they can win the next election.

As for the Senate they can have 3 years too, none of this 6 crap.

Democracy, will of the people and all that.

You can't do anything in 3 years G. You can stuff up a country in one year but you can't fix it 3.

I doubt there is anything that would support either proposition being correct.

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Dnarever

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #20 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:15pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:55pm:

All members please note that I've have proposed such reforms on this forum before.

Seems I'm not that crazy after all.

And Aussie, no senators won't be elected for 8 years; they'll all be elected at the same time.

Does that not defeat the purpose and benefit. The split election for the senate makes it less likely that the whole of government will be made from the politics of that single snapshot of time. Reduces the likelihood of both houses being dominated by one party which is very desirable and better balanced.

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Valkie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16096 Central Coast Gender:	Re: Fixed four year terms Reply #21 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:29pm Can we please have compulsory euthanasia for ALL politicians who loose an election? It might just make them work a little bit harder to satisfy the people rather than the multinationals.
Back to top	I HAVE A DREAM A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM. A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM. SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU IP Logged

Auggie

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #22 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:13pm

thecuriousmail wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:10pm:

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:59pm:

thecuriousmail wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:52pm:

No to an increase.
The argument that longer term periods equals better planning/decision making has proof where?? Garbage in and garbage out is not time span dependent.
For a start, governments actually need to communicate their intentions better now (they are loathe to do this, as they may need to make a political compromise along the way, so do not want to put forward any kind of public long-term plan which they may later amend).

They're loathe to do it because they can't do anything in 3 years.

You need to think of 3 year terms as 3 budgets. You can't get anything done with 3 budgets. 4 or 5 years means the government can better plan long term.

And the proof is where?
One often hears that such-and-such government was "tired/stale/broken etc" after X number of years. This 'X" number of years is not fixed, and the longer the term, the longer the torture. indeed some governments even seem to begin as dysfunctional. Would a longer term turn a dysfunctional government into a functional government?

What you say is correct. It's also true that media pressure, popular opinion and the desire to be reelected usually is enough pressure to call for early elections.

Also the positive aspect is that the government does have more time to implement its agenda, so there's a greater expectation on the government to perform BETTER.

Finally, because of the Senate the government needs to negotiate more, which takes time.

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The Progressive President

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Auggie

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #23 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:18pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:15pm:

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:55pm:

All members please note that I've have proposed such reforms on this forum before.

Seems I'm not that crazy after all.

And Aussie, no senators won't be elected for 8 years; they'll all be elected at the same time.

Does that not defeat the purpose and benefit. The split election for the senate makes it less likely that the whole of government will be made from the politics of that single snapshot of time. Reduces the likelihood of both houses being dominated by one party which is very desirable and better balanced.

I've heard the rotation argument before. Thetruth is that politicians almost always vote along party lines whether they were elected 3 years earlier or 12 years earlier.

Second, what makes the Senate multi party is it's voting system not its rotation. Under a 4/4 system, senators would be elected all at once, i.e. 12 senators instead of 6. This increases the likelihood of micro parties in he senate, which some people consider good.

Ergo, the rotation argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. If you had a house full of independents then yes the rotation would make a difference, but political parties blow that out of the water.

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The Progressive President

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Auggie

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #24 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:18pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:02pm:

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:55pm:

All members please note that I've have proposed such reforms on this forum before.

Seems I'm not that crazy after all.

And Aussie, no senators won't be elected for 8 years; they'll all be elected at the same time.

Really...?
Well so have many of us.

My contribution to electoral reform was
Optional Preferential Voting.
Non-Compulsory Voting.
4 Year Terms.
CIR.

I didn't say I was the ONLY one.

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The Progressive President

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 95491 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Fixed four year terms Reply #25 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:40pm Liberal & Labor are both train wrecks - so it makes no difference 4 years or 3 years - it's still a train wreck.
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Fixed four year terms Reply #26 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:55pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:40pm: Liberal & Labor are both train wrecks - so it makes no difference 4 years or 3 years - it's still a train wreck. Well, the people vote for them, so blame the electors. No one is forcing them to vote that way.
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Francis Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 595 Gender:	Re: Fixed four year terms Reply #27 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:56pm Give them two week contracts. Just like how qld labor employes ItS health workers. Qld labor=Qld health.... Worst place too work in the country Union can't. Help u .
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Dnarever

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #28 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 7:01pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:18pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 4:15pm:

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 3:55pm:

All members please note that I've have proposed such reforms on this forum before.

Seems I'm not that crazy after all.

And Aussie, no senators won't be elected for 8 years; they'll all be elected at the same time.

Does that not defeat the purpose and benefit. The split election for the senate makes it less likely that the whole of government will be made from the politics of that single snapshot of time. Reduces the likelihood of both houses being dominated by one party which is very desirable and better balanced.

I've heard the rotation argument before. Thetruth is that politicians almost always vote along party lines whether they were elected 3 years earlier or 12 years earlier.

Second, what makes the Senate multi party is it's voting system not its rotation. Under a 4/4 system, senators would be elected all at once, i.e. 12 senators instead of 6. This increases the likelihood of micro parties in he senate, which some people consider good.

Ergo, the rotation argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. If you had a house full of independents then yes the rotation would make a difference, but political parties blow that out of the water.

Quote:

I've heard the rotation argument before. Thetruth is that politicians almost always vote along party lines whether they were elected 3 years earlier or 12 years earlier.

irrespective of how many times you have heard the argument you have just shown that you didn't understand it.

Quote:

Ergo, the rotation argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

Scrutiny does not mean finding arguments that support your view.

It is a fact that the mix in Australian senates have not represented the result of a single election result on the whole.

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Dnarever

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Re: Fixed four year terms
Reply #29 - Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 7:05pm

Auggie wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2017 at 6:40pm:

Liberal & Labor are both train wrecks -

so it makes no difference 4 years or 3 years - it's still a train wreck.

Well, the people vote for them, so blame the electors. No one is forcing them to vote that way.

Compulsory voting in a two horse race ?

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