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Highway Robbery (Read 3794 times)
red baron
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Highway Robbery
Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:27pm
 
This is what you will be faced with if you want to drive in Sydney and New South Wales:

IT now costs up to $40 a day in tolls to travel to and from the north shore to the eastern suburbs of Sydney.
Drivers can expect to pay more as new roads like NorthConnex and Westconnex are built with money from extending, increasing and reintroducing tolls.
To help fund the Westconnex motorway tolls are returning to the M4 and M5.
To help pay for Northconnex tolls on the M7 will rise for trucks plus the M2 and Lane Cove Tunnel tolls may be extended.
NRMA local director Tim Trumper said if you need to drive across Sydney the only feasible choice is a motorway, run as a monopoly or by the NSW Government.
Motorways should refund tolls when there are avoidable delays for example for poor maintenance and late running road works, Mr Trumper said.
“It’s time motorists got what they paid for,” he said.
All other transport services are subject to independent price and performance oversight and toll prices should be no different, he said.
“Our preference is for the M7 model, the tolls on which are CPI-linked.”
A spokeswoman for Minister for Roads Duncan Gay said Northconnex will slash travel times and the entire Sydney Orbital network has largely been delivered through partnerships with private companies.
“If people find good value in good infrastructure, they will likely use it and motorists will always have a free alternative route,” the spokeswoman said.
When Transurban upgraded the M2 in 2013, at a cost of $550 million, the NSW Government contributed to the cost with a four-year extension of the tolls on the M2.
Transurban which, operates and co-owns many of Sydney’s toll roads including the M2, the M7, the Eastern Distributor, the Lane Cove and Cross City tunnels, has said it supports a user-pays system for roads.

*A huge new rollout of increased Tolls are expected by Premier Berejiklian is staying close mouthed about anticipated huge rises for motorists in tolls

This bitch just can't stop milking the golden cow
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #1 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:29pm
 

"tolls"   Grin

You eastern states guys are silly.

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red baron
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #2 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:36pm
 
Yes Gregg there seems to be a mind set around that if you want good roads then you have to pay a toll here. What a load of crap. I recall that part of every petrol dollar purchased is supposed to go to road construction

Where are all those hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars going?

It is just a total ripoff and another way for the Government to screw the taxpayer
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« Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:43pm by red baron »  
 
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #3 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:42pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:29pm:
"tolls"   Grin

You eastern states guys are beholden to corporate overlords and are no longer governed with your interests at the forefront.



fixed that one for you.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #4 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:52pm
 
See what I mean?


Drivers taxed almost 40 cents on a litre of fuel will get less than nine cents back in the form of spending on roads next financial year, according to calculations by the national motorists' umbrella group.

The rest of the tax revenue - worth close to $10 billion - will go towards helping the Government reach the $1.5 billion surplus it has promised for 2012-13.

The Australian Automobile Association has told the Government it is concerned that funding for road building and improvements will be cut by 38 per cent, or more than $2.6 billion in the coming Budget year.

This was based on calculations using the Government's own forward spending projections.

"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

The AAA calculates the Government will get $57 billion in fuel excise from motorists over the next four years and invest just $21 billion in land transport.

The revenue comes from the 38.1 cents-per-litre (cpl) fuel excise which has been frozen since 2001.

In 2011-12 the excise will provide 15.9 cpl for road funding, the AAA has calculated. But in 2012-13 that will fall to 8.4 cpl for roads, and will rise by only two cents over the next three years.

"The Federal Government continues to direct surplus revenue from motorists to consolidated revenue even though transport expenditure is falling," said the AAA Budget submission.

"The AAA is concerned that the share of fuel excise being directed to road funding is projected to fall from 15.9 cpl in 2011-12 to an average of just 10.9 cpl over the Budget forward estimates."

The Government is not obliged to allocate a set slice from its 38.1 cpl fuel excise to road and rail projects, but motoring groups have consistently demanded a significant amount be returned to road users.

However, the heavy reliance by this and past governments on the excise to bulk up the general spending pool has meant that most of the revenue is used elsewhere, and drivers paying $1.50 a litre cannot expect a tax cut.

And much of the road funding in the coming financial year will go towards repairing flood damage, which the NSW Government has estimated will cost $500 million in its state alone.

The AAA said more money should go to reducing road accidents it says cost the national economy $27 billion a year.

It called on the Government to spend more on fixing "black spot" road stretches with a bad record for accidents.

The national road toll is close to 1400 deaths a year with more than 30,000 people seriously injured.

Originally published as Revealed: Where your fuel taxes are really going

***  This Tax when is was first formulated was supposed to be spent in its entirety on building and maintain roads

You can see that ONLY 9 CENTS OF EVERY 40 CENTS COLLECTED GOES THERE RIP OFF CENTRAL
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Bobby.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #5 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:56pm
 
That's correct Baron - the Govt. steals the petrol tax &
spends it on fat cat public servants etc.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #6 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:28pm
 
....the user should pay....Gladys for PM
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #7 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:37pm
 
Get the train, Red. You won't look back.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #8 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:38pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:56pm:
That's correct Baron - the Govt. steals the petrol tax &
spends it on fat cat public servants etc.


And we use the train, dear.
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red baron
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #9 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:43am
 
Karnal luckily for me I live in the Blue Mountains and have escaped the tyranny of the tolls that drivers going to work in Sydney face every day

Poor buggers working stiffs get reamed royally by Big Beak Berejiklian
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #10 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:53am
 
Swagman wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:28pm:
....the user should pay....Gladys for PM



user does pay

every time they pay rego
every time they fill up with gas


the user doesn't stop paying.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #11 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:54am
 
Didn't toll roads or private roads disappear in England in the 19th century? We had to wait for late 20th century Australia for them to be reinvented.

I don't go near metropolitan areas fortunately.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #12 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:55am
 
They should increase fuel taxes instead of using tolls. This is what you get for whinging constantly about the price of fuel, like it is a harbinger of doom just because the prices are plastered in big letters on the side of the road. The government is not game to touch it. So instead you get freeways that are designed to be difficult to get on and off easily, so you can't evade the tolls. And you have to sign up for electronic monitors just so you can drive to work. And you get poor people taking the longer route through the suburbs to save money. Tolls are used in cities where the cost of roads on a per user basis are the lowest. In rural areas where the relative cost is higher, they wouldn't put up with it.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #13 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:57am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:29pm:
"tolls"   Grin

You eastern states guys are silly.



Oh, yes.

Just imagine if any State government here in WA tried to introduce toll roads seeing as we already seem to be the most expensive State when it comes to keeping a car on the road.

I can't think of a quicker form of political suicide.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #14 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:59am
 
But in rural areas there usually isn't more than one feasible route from A to B, so there isn't scope for a free alternative.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #15 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:02am
 
the biggest problem i have is that if govt. needs money to fund a road (and they shouldn't because they only use about 22% of what they currently raise through petrol for roads), why doesn't the govt. run the toll? charge a toll, once the road if paid for, remove it. No need to sell our roads to private corporations
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #16 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:04am
 
Swagman wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:28pm:
....the user should pay....Gladys for PM


The user/exploiter should pay - Gladys for the gallows....

I thought this strand was going to be about the new national Liberal Party head honcho - the then incumbent state premier who purchased himself a 1/16th share in the 'privatisation' of the F.4 into the M.4..... another one of those Central European 'business' types... in about the same vein as your cocaine baron in Colombia... a fine mix of State control coupled to ruthless self-interest, as pervades the Centre of Europe and the Middle East...

Oh - look - Gladys the Jackal Captain Hook is one of those as well......
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #17 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:10am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:54am:
Didn't toll roads or private roads disappear in England in the 19th century? We had to wait for late 20th century Australia for them to be reinvented.

I don't go near metropolitan areas fortunately.


Only when I have to.... thing about those 'free alternatives' is they first stuff them up with stop signs and such so they are virtually undriveable.

Anyone recall the old 'rat runners' scare campaign when the **coughs** 'privatised' M.4 was running?  Anyone who chose to use the 'free alternatives' was vilified as some kind of low-life using suburban streets when they should have been doing as swag demands, and paying their dues to Nick Greiner (respected elder statesman) in his capacity as both state premier and a huge shareholder in the M.4 that his 'government' sold off ....

So now, when it suits the SAME PARTY - people can always use the free alternative..... try it some time and see how you go...

Ah, the joys of being there at the time and having the memory of an elephant.....  difference between us old bastards and the young guns is we KNOW the difference.... they only 'know' what someone else told them ....
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #18 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:14am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:56pm:
That's correct Baron - the Govt. steals the petrol tax &
spends it on fat cat public servants etc.


And we use the train, dear.


.. and pay through the nose for that to, since Gladys Captain Hook was the 'minister for transport'....

Where DOES NSW get these people who go into politics?  I used to know Milton Morris, the old Libs Minister for Transport, he refused toll roads (apart from the original Sydney - Central Coast one to pay for itself like the Harbour Bridge  - oops - did I mention that in Gladys' hearing??)  and even refused unmarked police cars to catch motorists because it wasn't 'playing the game'....

Now all we have is paid-for corporate vultures in the Liberal Party in NSW...somebody lock the gates....

(footnote:-  Luke Foley has all the impact of a wet piece of toast)....

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« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:19am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #19 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:02am:
the biggest problem i have is that if govt. needs money to fund a road (and they shouldn't because they only use about 22% of what they currently raise through petrol for roads), why doesn't the govt. run the toll? charge a toll, once the road if paid for, remove it. No need to sell our roads to private corporations


I think it's closer to 100%.

If the government ran the toll, they would have to build the road also, so it would cost twice as much.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #20 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:25am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%.


not according to the article in reply 4.

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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #21 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:26am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
If the government ran the toll, they would have to build the road also, so it would cost twice as much.


not necessarily. They can still contract out to the lowest bidder.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #22 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:43am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:02am:
the biggest problem i have is that if govt. needs money to fund a road (and they shouldn't because they only use about 22% of what they currently raise through petrol for roads), why doesn't the govt. run the toll? charge a toll, once the road if paid for, remove it. No need to sell our roads to private corporations


I think it's closer to 100%.

If the government ran the toll, they would have to build the road also, so it would cost twice as much.


Where has that been proven to be the case, freed?  When governments do these jobs, they contract out much of the design work and such, and then hire a host of contractors... the difference is they are not paying a horde of shareholders, board members and ceos and such to duplicate the same work of oversight and running the show.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #23 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:25am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%.


not according to the article in reply 4.



"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?

Quote:
not necessarily. They can still contract out to the lowest bidder.


And pay them with what?

Quote:
Where has that been proven to be the case, freed?  When governments do these jobs, they contract out much of the design work and such, and then hire a host of contractors... the difference is they are not paying a horde of shareholders, board members and ceos and such to duplicate the same work of oversight and running the show.


You don't think they contract that bit out also? And do these contractors have CEOs overseeing their work? Or does everything just function like clockwork because the government is in charge?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #24 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:57am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
And pay them with what?


they could do what govt's used to do before they all jumped on the privatisation bandwagon

sell some govt. bonds
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #25 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:00am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?


land transport includes rail.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #26 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:06am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:00am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?


land transport includes rail.


Last time I looked into this it was very easy. The government published total petrol tax revenues and total expenditure on roads from all levels of government. Looks like the AAA went looking for spin rather than fact.

Do you think fuel taxes should pay for rail?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #27 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:08am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:06am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:00am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?


land transport includes rail.


Last time I looked into this it was very easy. The government published total petrol tax revenues and total expenditure on roads from all levels of government. Looks like the AAA went looking for spin rather than fact.

Do you think fuel taxes should pay for rail?


I think fuel taxes should pay for roads. That's the justification they used to implement them, that's what they should be spent on
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #28 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:14am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:25am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%.


not according to the article in reply 4.



"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?

Quote:
not necessarily. They can still contract out to the lowest bidder.


And pay them with what?

Quote:
Where has that been proven to be the case, freed?  When governments do these jobs, they contract out much of the design work and such, and then hire a host of contractors... the difference is they are not paying a horde of shareholders, board members and ceos and such to duplicate the same work of oversight and running the show.


You don't think they contract that bit out also? And do these contractors have CEOs overseeing their work? Or does everything just function like clockwork because the government is in charge?



Not quite that simple - of course those contracted companies have their mouths to feed etc... and yes, it is possible for a government to contract out the oversight of the project as a whole.

Thing is - once the project is up and running, those contractors are no longer contracted for oversight, and thus have no mouths to feed.. and if the government then runs the show, they have no shareholders etc to feed.

Thus far, and I have no fear of contradiction here - every 'privatised' public venture has caused a massive rise in costs.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #29 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 11:54am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:37pm:
Get the train, Red. You won't look back.



5 days a week to go to work? How much is that?

Do you walk to the station or drive to park & ride?

That's still using petrol.

Bet it's more than $40 a week.

Tolls are a rip off ... in Brisbane up to & over $5 for a one way trip.

How much do you think tradies & truckers & trucking companies pay per week?

Commercial vehicles are charged more.

This is just theft ... & it's occurring with LNP & Labor govts. at the helms of state govt.

Already paid for by the tax payer .... we are then slugged by private enterprise corps who have been handed control of these roads practically gratis to travel them.


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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #30 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 11:59am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:08am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:06am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:00am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?


land transport includes rail.


Last time I looked into this it was very easy. The government published total petrol tax revenues and total expenditure on roads from all levels of government. Looks like the AAA went looking for spin rather than fact.

Do you think fuel taxes should pay for rail?


I think fuel taxes should pay for roads. That's the justification they used to implement them, that's what they should be spent on


Is that really all? We should run our country based on what politicians spun us decades ago?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:14am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:25am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%.


not according to the article in reply 4.



"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?

Quote:
not necessarily. They can still contract out to the lowest bidder.


And pay them with what?

Quote:
Where has that been proven to be the case, freed?  When governments do these jobs, they contract out much of the design work and such, and then hire a host of contractors... the difference is they are not paying a horde of shareholders, board members and ceos and such to duplicate the same work of oversight and running the show.


You don't think they contract that bit out also? And do these contractors have CEOs overseeing their work? Or does everything just function like clockwork because the government is in charge?



Not quite that simple - of course those contracted companies have their mouths to feed etc... and yes, it is possible for a government to contract out the oversight of the project as a whole.

Thing is - once the project is up and running, those contractors are no longer contracted for oversight, and thus have no mouths to feed.. and if the government then runs the show, they have no shareholders etc to feed.

Thus far, and I have no fear of contradiction here - every 'privatised' public venture has caused a massive rise in costs.


Like the NBN?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #31 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 12:58pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 11:59am:
Is that really all? We should run our country based on what politicians spun us decades ago?


yep, that's all. Call me silly but I like people to do what they say they will do.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 11:59am:
Like the NBN?


the NBN is a stuff up because the libs thought they could use it for political point scoring.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #32 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 3:33pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 12:58pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 11:59am:
Is that really all? We should run our country based on what politicians spun us decades ago?


yep, that's all. Call me silly but I like people to do what they say they will do.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 11:59am:
Like the NBN?


the NBN is a stuff up because the libs thought they could use it for political point scoring.


They are probably dead by now. But you still expect them to keep their promises, and us to keep them on their behalf? Don't you think there are better things to base our decisions on than the spin of a dead politician?

The NBN is so expensive because the government did not run it like a business. They ran it like a communist regime. No amount of contracting it out to the lowest bidder or not paying shareholders can make up for that.

And what was your point about land transportation including rail? Were you trying to show that the AAA had done their homework properly?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #33 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:09pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 3:33pm:
They are probably dead by now. But you still expect them to keep their promises, and us to keep them on their behalf?


the govt. doesn't die.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 3:33pm:
The NBN is so expensive because the government did not run it like a business. They ran it like a communist regime. No amount of contracting it out to the lowest bidder or not paying shareholders can make up for that.

bullsh1t. Govt. screwed around with the NBN for politics sake.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 3:33pm:
And what was your point about land transportation including rail? Were you trying to show that the AAA had done their homework properly?

no, it merely showed that your comment was wrong.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #34 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:17pm
 
The grubberment waste sooo much money on raod repairs.

Simply because they continually cut corners and go cheap.

If they built the roads properly in the first place, they would last longer and the road crews coud actually build more roads instead of continually repairing the sub standard ones we have.

It all comes down to grubberment greed and stupidity.

Time for a revolution
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #35 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:27pm
 
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:17pm:
The grubberment waste sooo much money on raod repairs.

Simply because they continually cut corners and go cheap.

If they built the roads properly in the first place, they would last longer and the road crews coud actually build more roads instead of continually repairing the sub standard ones we have.

It all comes down to grubberment greed and stupidity.

Time for a revolution


Valkie, the government is going to send agents to your house to steal the cash you have stuffed in your mattress, chuck you out of your house, and turn you into the streets earning your living selling government propaganda brochures from a street trolley.

They will give your money to Muslims who will use it to bring more Muslims to live in Valkie's former house and steal jobs from Valkie's former employer.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #36 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:35pm
 
Unforgiven wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:27pm:
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:17pm:
The grubberment waste sooo much money on raod repairs.

Simply because they continually cut corners and go cheap.

If they built the roads properly in the first place, they would last longer and the road crews coud actually build more roads instead of continually repairing the sub standard ones we have.

It all comes down to grubberment greed and stupidity.

Time for a revolution


Valkie, the government is going to send agents to your house to steal the cash you have stuffed in your mattress, chuck you out of your house, and turn you into the streets earning your living selling government propaganda brochures from a street trolley.

They will give your money to Muslims who will use it to bring more Muslims to live in Valkie's former house and steal jobs from Valkie's former employer.


You really are in a bad way little troll.

I have read your posts over the last couple of days.

Every one of them is insulting, derogatory and infantile.

Are you having a bad time widdle trolly wolly?

Have the burgers been burning on you?

The only reason someone like you acts they way you do is because you have no control over your life and try to build you own self importance by belittling others.

I understand this little troll, and know you will never get any better.
Simply because you will never, ever have a real life nor be anything more in life than an utter failure.

Troll away little troll.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #37 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:48pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:09pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 3:33pm:
They are probably dead by now. But you still expect them to keep their promises, and us to keep them on their behalf?


the govt. doesn't die.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 3:33pm:
The NBN is so expensive because the government did not run it like a business. They ran it like a communist regime. No amount of contracting it out to the lowest bidder or not paying shareholders can make up for that.

bullsh1t. Govt. screwed around with the NBN for politics sake.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 3:33pm:
And what was your point about land transportation including rail? Were you trying to show that the AAA had done their homework properly?

no, it merely showed that your comment was wrong.


Are you arguing that I am wrong because the AAA is incompetent? Or did you just completely miss my point?

Do you think that we should keep every promise ever made by any past government on the grounds the "government doesn't die"? Is that really the best you can come up with?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #38 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 6:21pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:48pm:
Are you arguing that I am wrong because the AAA is incompetent? Or did you just completely miss my point?


no, I'm arguing that the information you provided was deceptive given the point we were debating at the time. Instead of scrambling to try and justify it, accept it and move on.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:48pm:
Do you think that we should keep every promise ever made by any past government on the grounds the "government doesn't die"? Is that really the best you can come up with?


If i'm paying for a service, I expect to get that service. I don't care if it's the govt, telstra, you or the queen mother. The govt. claimed (and continues to claim ) that the tax on petrol is charged to pay for the cost of building and maintaining roads. I don't know why your pretending it was something someone said 50 yrs ago. They still say it each and every time someone whinges about the tax on petrol.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #39 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 6:58pm
 
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:35pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:27pm:
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:17pm:
The grubberment waste sooo much money on raod repairs.

Simply because they continually cut corners and go cheap.

If they built the roads properly in the first place, they would last longer and the road crews coud actually build more roads instead of continually repairing the sub standard ones we have.

It all comes down to grubberment greed and stupidity.

Time for a revolution


Valkie, the government is going to send agents to your house to steal the cash you have stuffed in your mattress, chuck you out of your house, and turn you into the streets earning your living selling government propaganda brochures from a street trolley.

They will give your money to Muslims who will use it to bring more Muslims to live in Valkie's former house and steal jobs from Valkie's former employer.


You really are in a bad way little troll.

I have read your posts over the last couple of days.

Every one of them is insulting, derogatory and infantile.

Are you having a bad time widdle trolly wolly?

Have the burgers been burning on you?

The only reason someone like you acts they way you do is because you have no control over your life and try to build you own self importance by belittling others.

I understand this little troll, and know you will never get any better.
Simply because you will never, ever have a real life nor be anything more in life than an utter failure.

Troll away little troll.


He's a childish piece of human excrement, like that pathetic juvenile TROLL, Kameel. Ignore them, Valkie. Save it for the Muslims.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #40 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 7:11pm
 
Mattywish wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 6:58pm:
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:35pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:27pm:
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:17pm:
The grubberment waste sooo much money on raod repairs.

Simply because they continually cut corners and go cheap.

If they built the roads properly in the first place, they would last longer and the road crews coud actually build more roads instead of continually repairing the sub standard ones we have.

It all comes down to grubberment greed and stupidity.

Time for a revolution


Valkie, the government is going to send agents to your house to steal the cash you have stuffed in your mattress, chuck you out of your house, and turn you into the streets earning your living selling government propaganda brochures from a street trolley.

They will give your money to Muslims who will use it to bring more Muslims to live in Valkie's former house and steal jobs from Valkie's former employer.


You really are in a bad way little troll.

I have read your posts over the last couple of days.

Every one of them is insulting, derogatory and infantile.

Are you having a bad time widdle trolly wolly?

Have the burgers been burning on you?

The only reason someone like you acts they way you do is because you have no control over your life and try to build you own self importance by belittling others.

I understand this little troll, and know you will never get any better.
Simply because you will never, ever have a real life nor be anything more in life than an utter failure.

Troll away little troll.


He's a childish piece of human excrement, like that pathetic juvenile TROLL, Kameel. Ignore them, Valkie. Save it for the Muslims.


I believe that he needs to be helped.

But first he needs to acknowledge his failings.

I see nothing more than to help him see the light.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #41 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 7:19pm
 
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 7:11pm:
Mattywish wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 6:58pm:
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:35pm:
Unforgiven wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:27pm:
Valkie wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:17pm:
The grubberment waste sooo much money on raod repairs.

Simply because they continually cut corners and go cheap.

If they built the roads properly in the first place, they would last longer and the road crews coud actually build more roads instead of continually repairing the sub standard ones we have.

It all comes down to grubberment greed and stupidity.

Time for a revolution


Valkie, the government is going to send agents to your house to steal the cash you have stuffed in your mattress, chuck you out of your house, and turn you into the streets earning your living selling government propaganda brochures from a street trolley.

They will give your money to Muslims who will use it to bring more Muslims to live in Valkie's former house and steal jobs from Valkie's former employer.


You really are in a bad way little troll.

I have read your posts over the last couple of days.

Every one of them is insulting, derogatory and infantile.

Are you having a bad time widdle trolly wolly?

Have the burgers been burning on you?

The only reason someone like you acts they way you do is because you have no control over your life and try to build you own self importance by belittling others.

I understand this little troll, and know you will never get any better.
Simply because you will never, ever have a real life nor be anything more in life than an utter failure.

Troll away little troll.


He's a childish piece of human excrement, like that pathetic juvenile TROLL, Kameel. Ignore them, Valkie. Save it for the Muslims.


I believe that he needs to be helped.

But first he needs to acknowledge his failings.

I see nothing more than to help him see the light.


You can't reason with these people, Valkie. They'll never see the light.

Bullet in the back of the head - that's the only thing that'll wake these ferkwits up.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #42 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 7:58pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 6:21pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:48pm:
Are you arguing that I am wrong because the AAA is incompetent? Or did you just completely miss my point?


no, I'm arguing that the information you provided was deceptive given the point we were debating at the time. Instead of scrambling to try and justify it, accept it and move on.


Could you perhaps put this point of yours in a sentence? So far all you have done is provide a demonstration of AAA's incompetence and made vague claims that it proves something about what I said.

Quote:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 5:48pm:
Do you think that we should keep every promise ever made by any past government on the grounds the "government doesn't die"? Is that really the best you can come up with?


If i'm paying for a service, I expect to get that service. I don't care if it's the govt, telstra, you or the queen mother. The govt. claimed (and continues to claim ) that the tax on petrol is charged to pay for the cost of building and maintaining roads. I don't know why your pretending it was something someone said 50 yrs ago. They still say it each and every time someone whinges about the tax on petrol.


Here is what you actually said:

Quote:
I think fuel taxes should pay for roads. That's the justification they used to implement them, that's what they should be spent on


I've heard some pretty stupid justifications for supporting a policy before. That is one of the worst.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #43 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:00pm
 
$40 a day each way = $80 a day = $400 a week = $20,800 a year... how many small business can afford to cop that kind of pressure on wages?

The thing about the 'privateers' is that they lack any genuine economic sense other than how to rip a few more dollars out of the long-suffering public and out of small businesses, and have no concept whatsoever of the long term effects on everybody.  They fervently hope, of course, that by the time their bitter fruit falls from the tree, they will have enough stashed away to tide them over for a few centuries.... pack of thieves.  Should their business fail, or some 'radical' government come in and re-possess the 'private enterprises', these 'business' people have a safety valve - signed contracts by the incumbent government to bail them out in the event of failure or re-possession.

Only  a government with real balls would come in and tear up the contracts and ignore their whining and pushing things through the courts... if the courts don;t handle reality - sack the courts as well.

A pack of overpaid, self-entitled fools if you ask me.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #44 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:04pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 7:58pm:
Could you perhaps put this point of yours in a sentence? So far all you have done is provide a demonstration of AAA's incompetence and made vague claims that it proves something about what I said.


AAA didn't say the figure was just for roads, you did Cheesy Cheesy

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 7:58pm:
I've heard some pretty stupid justifications for supporting a policy before. That is one of the worst.


where did I say I supported the policy?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #45 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm
 
Quote:
AAA didn't say the figure was just for roads, you did


No they didn't. I said it was BS spin from the AAA. The fact that they are bitching about the rail budget not matching petrol taxes hardly discredits that. Do you have an actual point?

Quote:
where did I say I supported the policy?


Right here:

Quote:
that's what they should be spent on
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #46 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:16pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:
No they didn't. I said it was BS spin from the AAA.

that's why you used their figures to try and argue it was more like 100%

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:09pm:
Right here:


no, I'm holding the govt. to their word. I'd prefer we didn't pay tax on petrol. But that's never going to happen.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #47 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:30pm
 
Quote:
that's why you used their figures to try and argue it was more like 100%


No I didn't John. Not sure how you could misunderstand something so simple.

Again, do you have a point to make?

Quote:
no, I'm holding the govt. to their word. I'd prefer we didn't pay tax on petrol. But that's never going to happen.


You want to subsidise road transport? What should we tax instead to raise the revenue?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #48 - Jul 23rd, 2017 at 4:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:30pm:
Quote:
that's why you used their figures to try and argue it was more like 100%


No I didn't John. Not sure how you could misunderstand something so simple.

Again, do you have a point to make?

Quote:
no, I'm holding the govt. to their word. I'd prefer we didn't pay tax on petrol. But that's never going to happen.


You want to subsidise road transport? What should we tax instead to raise the revenue?



Welllllllllll

The old joke abot taxing the air we breath........

Well its coming, pollution tax or carbon tax, next its oxygen tax.

the Grubberment will find a way.

May they all die of a horrible, nasty, painful and disgusting disease................soon
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #49 - Jul 23rd, 2017 at 6:57pm
 
I can't remember a sustained period when the NSW Government has ripped the living daylights out of its taxpayers like this Government has under Baird and Big Beak Berejiklian
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #50 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 6:00am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:30pm:
Quote:
that's why you used their figures to try and argue it was more like 100%


No I didn't John. Not sure how you could misunderstand something so simple.

Again, do you have a point to make?

Quote:
no, I'm holding the govt. to their word. I'd prefer we didn't pay tax on petrol. But that's never going to happen.


You want to subsidise road transport? What should we tax instead to raise the revenue?


We don't tax anything to raise the revenue - we compel governments to live within their means and stop wasting ours............. and to focus entirely on their job and not their 'business opportunities' and self-aggrandisement in many ways, including the utter waste of time and money in paying their mates big dollars to sit on some 'commission' or other and suck on the public teat.

I've said it before - since the violent insertion of the GST, State governments have seen more billions pass through their sleazy hands than ever in their history - and the results are piss-poor to negligible, and in many ways negative to the well-being of the people, and all they ever do is cry poor.  At the same time state governments have considered their magnificent handling of all this cash as a good excuse to line their own pockets mightily for life, and in more ways than one.

All that money should be going into OUR infrastructure, such as roads, rail, power, gas and so forth - not into their pet projects or nice little earners set up for the mates and cronies, and not into their stupid privatisation ventures that cost us an arm and a leg... we pay three times for toll roads - fuel etc taxes, GST, tolls + GST - where are our roads, Gladys? 
(in her mate's bank accounts)....

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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #51 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 7:55am
 

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:30pm:
No I didn't John. Not sure how you could misunderstand something so simple.



freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%..


freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:30pm:
You want to subsidise road transport?

I didn't mention subsidies. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Why do you feel the need to lie on every topic? No matter how mundane the topic, you insist on pretending people said something other than what they said. Are you incapable of making a point without lying?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #52 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 8:23am
 
If Australia's Big Cities had a 21st Century train service like they have in Japan, no one would be nuts enough to do their commuting in the family car.

Fast and cheap.

It's pride of ownership that keeps you car-owning egotists heading off to the toll-roads each morning instead of the humble practicalities of catching a bus and a train.

Berejiklian is spending multi-millions on the road systems instead of upgrading the train systems to the 21st century, and that's because the demand is there from you drivers who refuse to support public transport.

So don't NOW whinge and moan about the 'toll roads' needed to pay for your extravagances of wanting to drive your car to and from work.







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