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Highway Robbery (Read 3791 times)
John Smith
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #15 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:02am
 
the biggest problem i have is that if govt. needs money to fund a road (and they shouldn't because they only use about 22% of what they currently raise through petrol for roads), why doesn't the govt. run the toll? charge a toll, once the road if paid for, remove it. No need to sell our roads to private corporations
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #16 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:04am
 
Swagman wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:28pm:
....the user should pay....Gladys for PM


The user/exploiter should pay - Gladys for the gallows....

I thought this strand was going to be about the new national Liberal Party head honcho - the then incumbent state premier who purchased himself a 1/16th share in the 'privatisation' of the F.4 into the M.4..... another one of those Central European 'business' types... in about the same vein as your cocaine baron in Colombia... a fine mix of State control coupled to ruthless self-interest, as pervades the Centre of Europe and the Middle East...

Oh - look - Gladys the Jackal Captain Hook is one of those as well......
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #17 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:10am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 8:54am:
Didn't toll roads or private roads disappear in England in the 19th century? We had to wait for late 20th century Australia for them to be reinvented.

I don't go near metropolitan areas fortunately.


Only when I have to.... thing about those 'free alternatives' is they first stuff them up with stop signs and such so they are virtually undriveable.

Anyone recall the old 'rat runners' scare campaign when the **coughs** 'privatised' M.4 was running?  Anyone who chose to use the 'free alternatives' was vilified as some kind of low-life using suburban streets when they should have been doing as swag demands, and paying their dues to Nick Greiner (respected elder statesman) in his capacity as both state premier and a huge shareholder in the M.4 that his 'government' sold off ....

So now, when it suits the SAME PARTY - people can always use the free alternative..... try it some time and see how you go...

Ah, the joys of being there at the time and having the memory of an elephant.....  difference between us old bastards and the young guns is we KNOW the difference.... they only 'know' what someone else told them ....
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #18 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:14am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 4:56pm:
That's correct Baron - the Govt. steals the petrol tax &
spends it on fat cat public servants etc.


And we use the train, dear.


.. and pay through the nose for that to, since Gladys Captain Hook was the 'minister for transport'....

Where DOES NSW get these people who go into politics?  I used to know Milton Morris, the old Libs Minister for Transport, he refused toll roads (apart from the original Sydney - Central Coast one to pay for itself like the Harbour Bridge  - oops - did I mention that in Gladys' hearing??)  and even refused unmarked police cars to catch motorists because it wasn't 'playing the game'....

Now all we have is paid-for corporate vultures in the Liberal Party in NSW...somebody lock the gates....

(footnote:-  Luke Foley has all the impact of a wet piece of toast)....

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« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:19am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #19 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:02am:
the biggest problem i have is that if govt. needs money to fund a road (and they shouldn't because they only use about 22% of what they currently raise through petrol for roads), why doesn't the govt. run the toll? charge a toll, once the road if paid for, remove it. No need to sell our roads to private corporations


I think it's closer to 100%.

If the government ran the toll, they would have to build the road also, so it would cost twice as much.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #20 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:25am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%.


not according to the article in reply 4.

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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #21 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:26am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
If the government ran the toll, they would have to build the road also, so it would cost twice as much.


not necessarily. They can still contract out to the lowest bidder.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #22 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:43am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:02am:
the biggest problem i have is that if govt. needs money to fund a road (and they shouldn't because they only use about 22% of what they currently raise through petrol for roads), why doesn't the govt. run the toll? charge a toll, once the road if paid for, remove it. No need to sell our roads to private corporations


I think it's closer to 100%.

If the government ran the toll, they would have to build the road also, so it would cost twice as much.


Where has that been proven to be the case, freed?  When governments do these jobs, they contract out much of the design work and such, and then hire a host of contractors... the difference is they are not paying a horde of shareholders, board members and ceos and such to duplicate the same work of oversight and running the show.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #23 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:25am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%.


not according to the article in reply 4.



"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?

Quote:
not necessarily. They can still contract out to the lowest bidder.


And pay them with what?

Quote:
Where has that been proven to be the case, freed?  When governments do these jobs, they contract out much of the design work and such, and then hire a host of contractors... the difference is they are not paying a horde of shareholders, board members and ceos and such to duplicate the same work of oversight and running the show.


You don't think they contract that bit out also? And do these contractors have CEOs overseeing their work? Or does everything just function like clockwork because the government is in charge?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #24 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:57am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
And pay them with what?


they could do what govt's used to do before they all jumped on the privatisation bandwagon

sell some govt. bonds
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John Smith
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #25 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:00am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?


land transport includes rail.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #26 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:06am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:00am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?


land transport includes rail.


Last time I looked into this it was very easy. The government published total petrol tax revenues and total expenditure on roads from all levels of government. Looks like the AAA went looking for spin rather than fact.

Do you think fuel taxes should pay for rail?
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #27 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:08am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:06am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:00am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?


land transport includes rail.


Last time I looked into this it was very easy. The government published total petrol tax revenues and total expenditure on roads from all levels of government. Looks like the AAA went looking for spin rather than fact.

Do you think fuel taxes should pay for rail?


I think fuel taxes should pay for roads. That's the justification they used to implement them, that's what they should be spent on
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #28 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 10:14am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:52am:
John Smith wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:25am:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2017 at 9:22am:
I think it's closer to 100%.


not according to the article in reply 4.



"Over a four-year period it is projected that there will be a $36 billion shortfall between the amount of fuel tax paid by motorists and investment in land transport infrastructure," the AAA said in its Budget submission to Treasurer Wayne Swan.

What about regular maintenance?

Quote:
not necessarily. They can still contract out to the lowest bidder.


And pay them with what?

Quote:
Where has that been proven to be the case, freed?  When governments do these jobs, they contract out much of the design work and such, and then hire a host of contractors... the difference is they are not paying a horde of shareholders, board members and ceos and such to duplicate the same work of oversight and running the show.


You don't think they contract that bit out also? And do these contractors have CEOs overseeing their work? Or does everything just function like clockwork because the government is in charge?



Not quite that simple - of course those contracted companies have their mouths to feed etc... and yes, it is possible for a government to contract out the oversight of the project as a whole.

Thing is - once the project is up and running, those contractors are no longer contracted for oversight, and thus have no mouths to feed.. and if the government then runs the show, they have no shareholders etc to feed.

Thus far, and I have no fear of contradiction here - every 'privatised' public venture has caused a massive rise in costs.
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Re: Highway Robbery
Reply #29 - Jul 22nd, 2017 at 11:54am
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 10:37pm:
Get the train, Red. You won't look back.



5 days a week to go to work? How much is that?

Do you walk to the station or drive to park & ride?

That's still using petrol.

Bet it's more than $40 a week.

Tolls are a rip off ... in Brisbane up to & over $5 for a one way trip.

How much do you think tradies & truckers & trucking companies pay per week?

Commercial vehicles are charged more.

This is just theft ... & it's occurring with LNP & Labor govts. at the helms of state govt.

Already paid for by the tax payer .... we are then slugged by private enterprise corps who have been handed control of these roads practically gratis to travel them.


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