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redefining freedom of speech (Read 3103 times)
John Smith
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #45 - Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:17pm
 
Karnal wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
This is more than his usual tripe. FD's had some kind of turn.

He's lost it. What on earth did you say to him, JS?


He didn't like it when  suggested the criticism levelled at Yasmin was a result of Islamaphobia. Apparently it's justifiable criticism to wish someone dead or they be raped.
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Karnal
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #46 - Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:28pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:17pm:
Karnal wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
This is more than his usual tripe. FD's had some kind of turn.

He's lost it. What on earth did you say to him, JS?


He didn't like it when  suggested the criticism levelled at Yasmin was a result of Islamaphobia. Apparently it's justifiable criticism to wish someone dead or they be raped.


Oh, dear. You didn't question FD's Freeeedom to slag off Muslims, did you?

Really, JS. You do bring these things upon yourself, don't you? What on earth do you expect?

You apologise to FD this minute.
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Ye Grappler
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #47 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 3:03am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:17pm:
Karnal wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
This is more than his usual tripe. FD's had some kind of turn.

He's lost it. What on earth did you say to him, JS?


He didn't like it when  suggested the criticism levelled at Yasmin was a result of Islamaphobia. Apparently it's justifiable criticism to wish someone dead or they be raped.


No - those of us who are more balanced accept that some will speak with massive hyperbole - but they would and could never do what they claim or suggest themselves.  A steady mind accepts that and moves on....

You are welcome, Grasshopper..

There are some who I would not wish dead for their views ... but who I would cheerfully kill for their actions and the results.... as a matter of justice and honour........

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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freediver
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #48 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 7:37am
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:09pm:
well done FD. More of your usual tripe

I noticed you didn't bother quoting my other comment, here, I'll put it up for you again



John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 7:27pm:
would you call comments like
'kill yourself'
'please stop breathing'
'be good when you announce you have cancer'
'filthy dog'
'poo slag'
'I'd run her over'
what about calls for her to return to where she came from to be raped or heheaded?

I think we passed the point of 'criticism' long ago, right FD? Cheesy Cheesy


Just criticism right FD?


Yes John, I acknowledge you have backpedaled a long way from calling everyone Islamophobes based on your ignorance of what they say and what Yassmin says. You have now progressed to making up strawmen you can valiantly defend her from, while everyone else wonders what you are trying to say.

But you are still inventing rights on her behalf. Does she have the right to not be called an idiot every time she says something stupid? What else does she have the right to not have said?

When you said she was nuts and a non-entity, was this you "respecting her right to voice her opinions without being personally vilified for them" and "debating the argument, not the person" and "not disrespepecting her"? Or just more hypocrisy?

John Smith wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:17pm:
Karnal wrote on Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
This is more than his usual tripe. FD's had some kind of turn.

He's lost it. What on earth did you say to him, JS?


He didn't like it when  suggested the criticism levelled at Yasmin was a result of Islamaphobia. Apparently it's justifiable criticism to wish someone dead or they be raped.


You said it was islamophobia because you were ignorant of whether they had also criticised other ANZAC day tweets, ignorant of her absurd gaffs on feminism and misuse of public funds, willfully ignorant to the point of hostility to the truth. You even accused me of Islamophobia. But you were really talking about rape threats? Or is this your way of admitting you made it all up and want to change the topic again?

Quote:
Actually, pretty sure I made clear my reason on why people turned on her.


Islamophobia John? And "your" reason for why other people turned on her is based entirely on things you don't know about what they said and about what Yassmin said and did?
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« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2017 at 7:51am by freediver »  

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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John Smith
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #49 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 8:11am
 
another non answer FD? It was fairly simple wasn't it? Was it just criticism or not?

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 7:37am:
When you said she was nuts and a non-entity, was this you "respecting her right to voice her opinions without being personally vilified for them" and "debating the argument, not the person" and "not disrespepecting her"? Or just more hypocrisy?


keep pretending FD Grin Grin

I said she was just as nuts as you. Are you saying you're nuts FD?
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John Smith
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #50 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 8:14am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 7:37am:
Islamophobia John? And "your" reason for why other people turned on her is based entirely on things you don't know about what they said and about what Yassmin said and did?


does that even make sense to you?
I gave you several examples for my reasons for calling the attacks on her Islamaphobia. The same examples you failed twice to say if it was criticism or if it went beyond that. he same reasons you pretended not to see.
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REPORTER: The condition of the budget will not be an excuse for breaking promises?

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John Smith
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #51 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 8:15am
 
Ye Grappler wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 3:03am:
No - those of us who are more balanced accept that some will speak with massive hyperbole



saying someone should be killed or raped goes beyond hyperbole, doesn't it grap?
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #52 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:11pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 8:11am:
another non answer FD? It was fairly simple wasn't it? Was it just criticism or not?

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 7:37am:
When you said she was nuts and a non-entity, was this you "respecting her right to voice her opinions without being personally vilified for them" and "debating the argument, not the person" and "not disrespepecting her"? Or just more hypocrisy?


keep pretending FD Grin Grin

I said she was just as nuts as you. Are you saying you're nuts FD?


My mistake. You couldn't possibly criticise a Muslim, could you.

Does she have the right to not be called an idiot every time she says something stupid? What else does she have the right to not have said?

Are you respecting her "right" to not be vilified by dredging up these insults and posting them repeatedly? Did you make them up yourself?

John don't you think it is a bit silly to prance around blaming everything on Islamophobia while also covering your ears and insisting you don't give a sh1t about her absurd gaffs on feminism and her misuse of public funds, and "proving" the charge of Islamophobia by citing your own ignorance of whether people also criticised other ANZAC tweets?
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« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:18pm by freediver »  

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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John Smith
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #53 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:29pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:11pm:
You couldn't possibly criticise a Muslim, could you.


done so many times FD. But lets be honest here, you don't want me to criticise a Muslim, what you want is for me to criticise Islam. And therein lies the crux of your problem.
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #54 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:33pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:29pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:11pm:
You couldn't possibly criticise a Muslim, could you.


done so many times FD. But lets be honest here, you don't want me to criticise a Muslim, what you want is for me to criticise Islam. And therein lies the crux of your problem.


What do you think of the Koranic instruction to kill the Mushriken wherever you find them? Would that be criticising Islam?

I would settle for some straight answers on this "right" you have invented and then rapidly backpedaled on. Does Yassmin have the right to not be called an idiot every time she says something stupid? What else does she have the right to not have said?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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John Smith
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #55 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:33pm:
What do you think of the Koranic instruction to kill the Mushriken wherever you find them?


i think it's a load of sh1t. No one ever said Islam is without fault. It has many problems it needs to address.

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:33pm:
I would settle for some straight answers on this "right" you have invented and then rapidly backpedaled on.


as if you can talk about straight answers Grin Grin Grin

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:33pm:
Does Yassmin have the right to not be called an idiot every time she says something stupid?


I guess that depends on where you draw the line. If she says something idiotic then she deserves to be called an idiot. I have no problem with idiot. However lets not pretend this is about calling her an idiot. Why do you ingore the calls for her to be killed or raped?

freediver wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:33pm:
What else does she have the right to not have said?

does that make sense to you FD?
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #56 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 1:21pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 18th, 2017 at 12:41pm:
Why do you ingore the calls for her to be killed or raped?


Freeeeedom, innit.

As long as you're not a dirty Arab/Negroid sub-breed calling to rape our women, FD will fight to the death for your right to say it.

After all, this woman is a racially inferior Moslem.
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #57 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 1:28pm
 
All Moslems are Terrorists!
Simple fact.
They all move in a large 'school' (of fish) where some get to take chunks out of the prey before hiding back in amongst the mass.

So until 'one' Moslem has the balls to stand alone and renounce the 'school' as wrong, here in Australia and take the responsibility of doing something about the 'school's' actions on Australia's behalf - better than what a PM position can do.
Then, they will all remain to be
TERRORISTS!

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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #58 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 1:57pm
 
As always with Effendi, the discussion gets bogged down and a mile away from where it began.

Is this woman stupid.  No, she is not.

Did she say anything stupid.  No, she did not.  She did make a remark she later apologised for concerning "Lest We Forget."  She had no need to apologise.  Last night on Q&A, Matt Canavan said it was naughty of her to link what is identified respectfully with Australian Armed forces with bad stuff in the Land of Arabs.  Rubbish.  There is a clear current link. 


Our Armed Forces are there right now destroying lives and turning big rocks into little rocks.

What has any of that got to do with Islamophobia?

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And Indian women aren't exactly LBFMs. ~ A Member
A Member ~ kill every man woman and child, who is a Muslim.
A Member ~ I know if he had touched my kid he [taxi driver]would need an Ambulance
 
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Re: redefining freedom of speech
Reply #59 - Jul 18th, 2017 at 2:06pm
 
The Islamic understanding of freedom of speech is explained:

Abstract

This paper examines the concept of the Islamic Perspective of Human Rights and Freedom of Expression as mentioned in the verses of the Quran. Freedom of expression today is almost exclusively a global phenomenon. Freedom exists in the sense that everyone can freely express his or her opinion as a prerequisite of fundamental human rights. Methodologically, the core differences between the Universal and Islamic understanding of freedom of expression are explained. This paper adopts a content analysis approach and argues that freedom in the Quran is natural, and it supersedes any earthly laws and instructions. Yet what is a human right for the Western world and constitutes a state law can be a crime for others. In Islam, nothing that questions its claims to truth may be publicly expressed. This paper will attempt to offer an analytical approach to confirm Islamic perspective and the innate phenomenon of freedom of expression and human rights.
https://www.omicsgroup.org/journals/freedom-of-expression-from-the-islamic-persp...

There is the long and the short of it.

I do not want any ideology or religion that forbids its own critical examination. It is abhorrent.




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