Surely all this detracts from the prime function of a defence force.     I know in Navy shore accommodation there are no seperate gender ablutions and that has been the case for many years - but this article is an eye opener for me.
http://thefederalist.com/2017/07/05/new-army-training-tells-female-soldiers-put-...

Vic wrote on Jul 9^th, 2017 at 1:29pm:


Oh, dear.  I don't suppose I should mention the unit I was attached to on K-84 which had mixed ablutions in the field?  We all showered together, there were no complaints.   Americans and many older people here seem to have missed out...   

rhino wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:


Stop being a homophobe, Rhino.   

rhino wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 3:53pm:


Bury them.

You can't be transgender in the defence forces because they strip you back during training. There's no individuality during training. You are a man or a woman. No wigs, no different clothing, no hijabs, nothing.

Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 4:31pm:




And you know this, how, Hammer?  Run along, do your trolling amongst your homophobic kind.   

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 4:37pm:




Yeah I spent a few years on Iroquis Gunships, way out on our lonesome, as you pogues weren't too keen on our WP & HE ordinance being parked up close to you lot.

So let's not worry to hard about my field time it wasn't surrounded by females and showers I can tell you that. 



The only that happened in the RAAF when that moronic equality policy came in back in the '80s  was to make rookies easier for males and it let males in that should have never got through the process. It was then we all learned abut the leftist social engineering agenda for the ADF and hasn't it been a roaring success, 

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 4:03pm:

I not against these people but it is a mental illness and the psychological testing should have weeded them out, if it didnt then they lied to get in.

Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 4:31pm:







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/army-trans-soldier_us_559dbd61e4b09672915574...

http://www.businessinsider.com/tricia-king-the-first-transgender-infantryman-in-...

Thanks John, from your links
Quote:

[/quote]


and still, despite that,  they exist in the army ....

and still, despite that, you were wrong

John Smith wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:
wrong about what John? Its your link. Are you saying your link was wrong?

rhino wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 6:47pm:


yeah you did.

rhino wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 5:39pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 6:48pm:
Naughty boy. Tampering with peoples posts is against forum rules John, heres the original quote. Looking for another holiday?
[quote author=

Mr_Hammer link

=1499570982/8#8 date=1499754705] You can't be transgender in the defence forces because they strip you back during training. There's no individuality during training. You are a man or a woman. No wigs, no different clothing, no hijabs, nothing. [/quote]

"Secretary of Defense Ash Carter announced an end to the military’s longstanding ban on openly transgender service members on Thursday, fulfilling a key piece of the Obama administration’s historic legacy on LGBT rights."

How silly does our little Rhino look now ?

I ask you.





Is he reaching for the shovel?

Did you see this, John?

"Secretary of Defense Ash Carter announced an end to the military’s longstanding ban on openly transgender service members on Thursday, fulfilling a key piece of the Obama administration’s historic legacy on LGBT rights."

Perhaps Hammer and Rhino didn't get the memo.

rhino wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 6:51pm:


[/quote]

I didn't tamper with anything you idiot. I provided YOUR quote claiming you couldn't be transgender in the defence force. The rest of your quote was just an excuse and your excuses were irrelevant. Just because someone wears camouflage greens and has a buzz cut, that doesn't make them any less transgender, no matter how much you wish it so.

John Smith wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:04pm:


I didn't tamper with anything you idiot. I provided YOUR quote claiming you couldn't be transgender in the defence force. The rest of your quote was just an excuse and your excuses were irrelevant. Just because someone wears camouflage greens and has a buzz cut, that doesn't make them any less transgender, no matter how much you wish it so.
[/quote]read the name fool, it says Mr Hammer. I made no such claim.

rhino wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 6:51pm:


[/quote]Thanks Rhino. During military training there is no individuality. No hijabs, vegetarians, alternative genders etc. There's one diet, 2 types of toilets . If you pray you do it on your own time. If there were changes to these rules the military couldn't put in it's  methods for psychological conditioning. If you are a trannie it's off base. If you are gay it's off base. If you are a vegetarian it's off base. Individuals don't work together as a team which is necessary in battle.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:17pm:
hey nitwit, do you think they get Kosher or vegetarian rations packs when deployed?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:17pm:

In the US there a no special menus during training. I'm not sure about here. There is no individuality. I suppose you can not eat meat in the dining hall but good luck finishing the training.

Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:25pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:25pm:


"USA. Individual ration for one vegetarian meal."

Soldiers’ ration kits tell us a lot about their nations

rhino wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:06pm:


ahhh ... sorry, I quoted your comment using his reply. It's still not 'tampering'.  Not that it matters, from what I've seen on this forum, you and hammer could be twins anyway. 

Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:20pm:


As an ex-Rations Storeman, I can tell you, that you know buggerall about what you're talking about.

In the field, soldiers are fed wherever possible, fresh rations.  If fresh is not available, then they default to bulk canned rations.  If operational necessity requires, then they can also be issued ration packs.   Ratpacks come in individual, one man packs, five man packs and 10 man packs.  There is also one man dehydrated "patrol rations" (which taste like crap).   The one man packs come in varieties A to E, five man come in varieties A to D as do 10 man packs.   At least one variety in the one man packs is vegetarian.   The others are all meat based.

Now, here is the interesting bit which will piss you off no doubt.   Vegetarian/Jewish/Muslim/Sikh soldiers can be, instead of being issued rations be provided with a meal allowance which allows them to purchase their own, specialised prepared/slaughtered foods, which if necessary, they are then allowed to cook for themselves in the unit's kitchens.   Whilst that applies to Fresh rations, they can all be provided with religious dispensation to eat non-Vegetarian/Kosher/Halal/Sikhism foods in the field if operationally necessary.

Would you like to learn about the issuing of special rations such as Rum for the cold weather supplement?   

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 11^th, 2017 at 7:48pm:



Holy sh1t!

Hammer is getting owned on a whole new level tonight.

I must say, I've never come across anyone who knows so little about so many things.

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 7:50am:


I take it you prefer for all the servicepeople to be big, beefy blokes?  No gays, no blacks, no Asians, no Buddhists, no Muslims, etc. ?

Just as well you're not mixing with the rest of Australian society then, because our defence forces reflect our society.   Our society contains a multicultural/multisexual/multireligious mix and so does our defence forces.   You're living in the 1950s, not the 21st century.   

Our defence force reflects our society? Seems a particularly stupid thing to say even for this board, unless you have a very odd idea of what reflects mean.

So what do you mean by reflects Brian, cos the defence force main and largest demographic is constituted from young fit men who pass various mental and physical aptitude and barrier tests which exclude most of the society that you claim it reflects. 

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 6:33pm:


Having met some of those, I can assure you, they actually make quite fearsome warriors, BigOl64.

You of course would know who makes the best soldiers, sitting inside your hangar at Williamtown, with your F-111s strapped to your hips, with Brylcreem all through your hair...   

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 7:12pm:



I suppose I could just resort to opinion as most people do here, hey, SW?   

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 6:21pm:


No, they don't.  The Psychological Corps testing of recruits is based more on trick-cyclist fashion than reality.

Gays?  Serving openly.
Transgender?  Serving openly.
Muslims?  Serving openly.
Jews, Sikhs, vegetarians, you name it, serving openly.

The only ones who are prevented from serving are the ones who have violent, criminal tendencies and of course the ones who are physiologically unfit.

The ADF needs large numbers of young, fit, males because that is the people they want in particular roles and who they accept in large numbers.   They limit the number of women, quite deliberately from serving because of outmoded ideas about sexism.

The ADF, overall, reflects Australian society which is predominately a white, Anglo-Saxon/Celtic, nominally Christian society.   

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 7:20pm:

This is absolute nonsense. There are a large number of reasons people would not be accepted.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 7:00pm:


BigHole's potato peeler is pretty sharp you know.

Brian was a storeman, very important role and of course, one very far away from any potential battle.

rhino wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 7:56pm:


I agree, tooth to tail and all that.  Which is why it is so stupid but stupid is what Brian does.

Frank wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 8:06pm:


Are you really this stupid, or are you just having a laugh?

Do you have any idea how demented you sound?

rhino wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 7:30pm:



Really?  Never served, have you, Rhino?   

rhino wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 7:56pm:


Oh, dear.  Oh, dearie, dearie, me.   You know bugger all, beyond what I have mentioned as to what my unit(s) did and where it was intended to serve on a battlefield.   I could, if you wanted, tell you but I suspect you'd find it like your claims about Vegetarian and other specialised rations rather hard to swallow, Rhino.   Run along, back to your Islamophobic trolling and baiting.  Tsk, tsk.   

You keep saying that the ADF reflects society but you are unable to point to any demographics to demonstrate your point.  The ADF is the opposite of reflective of society it consists of a small and specific demographic and all others are excluded. 

Your keep saying so don't make it so.  See that is what happens when you substitute anecdote and say so for debate for so long you forget what evidence and proof is in making an argument.

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
Exactly right.

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 9:20pm:


You mentioned once you were an Army Butcher.  Nothing wrong with support roles Brian, the teeth needs a tail.  Likewise the RAAF have support roles.

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 9:23pm:



Oh, I agree, SW, there is nothing wrong with being employed in a support role.   I don't try and tell BigOl64 how to be in the RAAF but he attempts to tell me how the Army works.   Address his comments for a change, mine are mild and only in response to his.  Tsk, tsk.   

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 9:25pm:
Just admit you were wrong Brian. Be easier for you.

rhino wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 9:29pm:


Oh, dearie, dearie, me.  Failed reading comprehension in school did you, Rhino?  Tsk, tsk.   

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 9:28pm:


Here's a reflection for you Brian.   

Comprehension he said.   

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 12^th, 2017 at 10:12pm:



Yeah, brian is big on the overly dramatic when he fears one of his pet causes is being criticised. 

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 13^th, 2017 at 5:20am:


A "fair idea" in your case appears to be "no idea" in reality. BigOl64.  If you had any idea, you'd know the difference between a "grunt" and a "cockroach".   Tsk, tsk.   

Quote:


Says he who has never been a soldier.    

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 14^th, 2017 at 5:54pm:



Yes this  has been the emoji for indignation for as long as I can remember.


Here is me being angry at you for making me feel bad about my RAAF Career. 

BigOl64 wrote on Jul 15^th, 2017 at 8:07am:


Have I?  Oh, what a shame.  You haven't made me feel bad about my Army career.   

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 17^th, 2017 at 3:23pm:



You don't understand sarcasm do you?


To call you a dumb grunt would be an insult to dumb grunts.


Thank fkk for velcro sand-shoes hey brian.