Australian Politics Forum - Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...

Fuzzball

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #255 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:18pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:13pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:01pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:50pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:24pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:22pm:

Another report FYI....

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/26/armed-intruders-allegedly-order-homeown...

Thanks for that.

16 pages of gweggylikesbuggery defending these armed robbers.

It was self defence, case closed.

I'm certainly not defending anyone.
My view is that police writing it off as self defence at this stage is premature.

That's the way it is in the USA, if you're armed and trespassing the homeowner can shoot you.

Were they trespassing?

If so, where's your evidence?

Nobody cares what you think little pecca, the police have investigated they said it was a case of self defence so case closed.

No amount of whining from a delusional person like you is going to make the police change their mind.

X 2

X 2 again

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« Last Edit: Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:24pm by Fuzzball »

Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,
"Holy Sh!t ... What a Ride!"

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #256 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:22pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:13pm:

the police have investigated they said it was a case of self defence so case closed.

Nope.

"Brentwood police are handling the investigation and would not comment any further. Anyone with information should call the department’s investigative division at 925-809-7911 or Detective Eric Huesman at 925-809-7735."

"Both suspects were men in their 30s from Antioch, police told KGO, adding that their names are being withheld until more investigating is done and police tell their families."

Oh dear.

Seems you can't get anything right.

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rhino

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #257 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:23pm

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:16pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:57pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:46pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:24pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:22pm:

Another report FYI....

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/26/armed-intruders-allegedly-order-homeown...

Thanks for that.

16 pages of gweggylikesbuggery defending these armed robbers.

It was self defence, case closed.

I'm certainly not defending anyone.
My view is that police writing it off as self defence at this stage is premature.

The situation is clear cut as is Californian law.

Tell me more Rhino, as my only interest in this topic is law related.

https://www.wklaw.com/california-self-defense-laws/
Quote:

California’s “Castle Doctrine” (PC Section 198.5)
Although California does not specifically have a “stand-your-ground” law, the Castle Doctrine is similar. Under Penal Code Section 198.5, you are allowed to use deadly force within your own home if you have a “reasonable fear of imminent peril or great bodily injury.”

If someone forces his or her way into your home unlawfully, a few things must occur to justify using deadly force:

You knew or had reason to believe the person entered your home unlawfully;
The intruder was acting unlawfully (not a police officer who was doing their job);
There was a reasonable fear of death or injury to you, a family member or another member of the household; and
You or the occupants of your home did not provoke the intruder in any way.

The part I've highlighted is the sticking point for me.

Forensic/autopsy evidence to prove where the fatal shots were fired, to me, is critical to self defence. If inside the garage, I understand the owner reacted to an imminent threat of peril and great injury and I take no issue with self defence at that stage.

However, the imminent threat had passed once the intruders ran off and I'm far from persuaded the shots fired at that stage accord with self defence.

You need to read on in the link I posted. Why must i spoon feed everyone here?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 145555 Gender:	Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ... Reply #258 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:26pm Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:16pm: However, the imminent threat had passed once the intruders ran off and I'm far from persuaded the shots fired at that stage accord with self defence. Exactly.
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Alinta

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #259 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:37pm

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:23pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:16pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:57pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:46pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:24pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:22pm:

Another report FYI....

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/26/armed-intruders-allegedly-order-homeown...

Thanks for that.

16 pages of gweggylikesbuggery defending these armed robbers.

It was self defence, case closed.

I'm certainly not defending anyone.
My view is that police writing it off as self defence at this stage is premature.

The situation is clear cut as is Californian law.

Tell me more Rhino, as my only interest in this topic is law related.

https://www.wklaw.com/california-self-defense-laws/
Quote:

California’s “Castle Doctrine” (PC Section 198.5)
Although California does not specifically have a “stand-your-ground” law, the Castle Doctrine is similar. Under Penal Code Section 198.5, you are allowed to use deadly force within your own home if you have a “reasonable fear of imminent peril or great bodily injury.”

If someone forces his or her way into your home unlawfully, a few things must occur to justify using deadly force:

You knew or had reason to believe the person entered your home unlawfully;
The intruder was acting unlawfully (not a police officer who was doing their job);
There was a reasonable fear of death or injury to you, a family member or another member of the household; and
You or the occupants of your home did not provoke the intruder in any way.

The part I've highlighted is the sticking point for me.

Forensic/autopsy evidence to prove where the fatal shots were fired, to me, is critical to self defence. If inside the garage, I understand the owner reacted to an imminent threat of peril and great injury and I take no issue with self defence at that stage.

However, the imminent threat had passed once the intruders ran off and I'm far from persuaded the shots fired at that stage accord with self defence.

You need to read on in the link I posted. Why must i spoon feed everyone here?

I stand by my posted views on this. I read in full the link you posted and have also researched other relevant links.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #260 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:50pm

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:37pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:23pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:16pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:57pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:54pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:46pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:45pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:24pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 6:22pm:

Another report FYI....

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/26/armed-intruders-allegedly-order-homeown...

Thanks for that.

16 pages of gweggylikesbuggery defending these armed robbers.

It was self defence, case closed.

I'm certainly not defending anyone.
My view is that police writing it off as self defence at this stage is premature.

The situation is clear cut as is Californian law.

Tell me more Rhino, as my only interest in this topic is law related.

https://www.wklaw.com/california-self-defense-laws/
Quote:

California’s “Castle Doctrine” (PC Section 198.5)
Although California does not specifically have a “stand-your-ground” law, the Castle Doctrine is similar. Under Penal Code Section 198.5, you are allowed to use deadly force within your own home if you have a “reasonable fear of imminent peril or great bodily injury.”

If someone forces his or her way into your home unlawfully, a few things must occur to justify using deadly force:

You knew or had reason to believe the person entered your home unlawfully;
The intruder was acting unlawfully (not a police officer who was doing their job);
There was a reasonable fear of death or injury to you, a family member or another member of the household; and
You or the occupants of your home did not provoke the intruder in any way.

The part I've highlighted is the sticking point for me.

Forensic/autopsy evidence to prove where the fatal shots were fired, to me, is critical to self defence. If inside the garage, I understand the owner reacted to an imminent threat of peril and great injury and I take no issue with self defence at that stage.

However, the imminent threat had passed once the intruders ran off and I'm far from persuaded the shots fired at that stage accord with self defence.

You need to read on in the link I posted. Why must i spoon feed everyone here?

I stand by my posted views on this. I read in full the link you posted and have also researched other relevant links.

Ditto.

The question remains: what danger did they present while they were running away?

I suspect we'll never hear how this pans out.

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Aussie

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #261 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:13pm

Well.....I have now read the whole Thread which could have been just a handfull of pages but we had the usual slanging matches with rubbish exchanges from the gun nut bags.

Should be no surprise that I agree with Alinta and also Mr Peccary. No way can the death of two be just written off as that Copper implied was within his power. All he has, as Peccary points out, is the story of the shooter.

Have to say that Peccary did go a bridge too far as we do not know if anyone was shot in the back. We know that two shots (the flashes of light) were fired in the garage. We know nothing about the outcome. Then, there are several flashes of light outside the garage, and the shadow of a guy in typical pistol holding mode, and the assumption is that this was when the two who were in the garage (invited or not) were no longer any threat at all to the householder. Whether they then were hit by fatal shots is unknown.

As is usual here at OzPol, all the speculators come out, and the blood lusters lust, and common sense goes out the window.

Much will depend on forensic evidence, and not some local Coppers dismissal of any criminality on the part of the Owner.

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Bobby.

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #262 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:13pm

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:38pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:30pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:29pm:

It's great justice. Nice, quick and it saves the American taxpayer a load of money. Good stuff.

How would you cope with a home invasion?

In Melbourne we get between 4 & 6 armed Negroes
invading houses one after the other.
It must be terrifying.

I hope it doesn't happen to me -
you'd need a machine gun to fight them off.

I'd like to set a rabid pack of homicidal pitbulls on to their back asses. Blackies hate dogs. You'd soon see the whites of their eyes with my attack dogs chasing after them. Roll Eyes

No - all men of good will should be given these by our Govt.

Awesome.

Hi Hammer ,
I knew you'd like that -

wouldn't you feel better prepared for dark hordes when they invade?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #263 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:16pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:13pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:49pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:38pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:30pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:29pm:

It's great justice. Nice, quick and it saves the American taxpayer a load of money. Good stuff.

How would you cope with a home invasion?

In Melbourne we get between 4 & 6 armed Negroes
invading houses one after the other.
It must be terrifying.

I hope it doesn't happen to me -
you'd need a machine gun to fight them off.

I'd like to set a rabid pack of homicidal pitbulls on to their back asses. Blackies hate dogs. You'd soon see the whites of their eyes with my attack dogs chasing after them. Roll Eyes

No - all men of good will should be given these by our Govt.

Awesome.

Hi Hammer ,
I knew you'd like that -

wouldn't you feel better prepared for dark hordes when they invade?

I'm sure you're prepared, Booby.

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rhino

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #264 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:25pm

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:37pm:

I stand by my posted views on this. I read in full the link you posted and have also researched other relevant links.

If you did read the link you would have come across this
Quote:

Of course, not all self-defense situations occur inside your home. Even though there is not a specific statute for standing your ground, California law does recognize your right to defend yourself with deadly force. California Jury Instructions (CALCRIM #505 and #506) describe this as “justifiable homicide.”

A jury is instructed to find you innocent of homicide, assault or other charges if you were acting reasonably under the circumstance. A reasonable circumstance under California Jury Instructions #505 and #506 means:

You reasonably believed you were in danger of being injured or killed;
You reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent this from happening; and
You used no more force than was necessary to stop the threat.4
If you are facing a reasonable threat of being injured or killed, you do not have to run away under California law. As long as you did not make the first strike, a skilled criminal defense attorney can argue that you were acting in self-defense.

Self-defense can be used as a legal defense for several crimes including:

Murder;
Aggravated assault;
Aggravated battery; and
Assault with a deadly weapon.

So, do your research first next time, like i did.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #265 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:27pm

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:37pm:

I stand by my posted views on this. I read in full the link you posted and have also researched other relevant links.

If you did read the link you would have come across this
Quote:

Of course, not all self-defense situations occur inside your home. Even though there is not a specific statute for standing your ground, California law does recognize your right to defend yourself with deadly force. California Jury Instructions (CALCRIM #505 and #506) describe this as “justifiable homicide.”

A jury is instructed to find you innocent of homicide, assault or other charges if you were acting reasonably under the circumstance. A reasonable circumstance under California Jury Instructions #505 and #506 means:

You reasonably believed you were in danger of being injured or killed;
You reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent this from happening; and
You used no more force than was necessary to stop the threat.4
If you are facing a reasonable threat of being injured or killed, you do not have to run away under California law. As long as you did not make the first strike, a skilled criminal defense attorney can argue that you were acting in self-defense.

Self-defense can be used as a legal defense for several crimes including:

Murder;
Aggravated assault;
Aggravated battery; and
Assault with a deadly weapon.

So, do your research first next time, like i did.

What danger did they present while they were running away?

I'm curious.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 112640 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ... Reply #266 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:28pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:27pm: I'm curious. Just be prepared Greggy:
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rhino

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #267 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:27pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:37pm:

I stand by my posted views on this. I read in full the link you posted and have also researched other relevant links.

If you did read the link you would have come across this
Quote:

Of course, not all self-defense situations occur inside your home. Even though there is not a specific statute for standing your ground, California law does recognize your right to defend yourself with deadly force. California Jury Instructions (CALCRIM #505 and #506) describe this as “justifiable homicide.”

A jury is instructed to find you innocent of homicide, assault or other charges if you were acting reasonably under the circumstance. A reasonable circumstance under California Jury Instructions #505 and #506 means:

You reasonably believed you were in danger of being injured or killed;
You reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent this from happening; and
You used no more force than was necessary to stop the threat.4
If you are facing a reasonable threat of being injured or killed, you do not have to run away under California law. As long as you did not make the first strike, a skilled criminal defense attorney can argue that you were acting in self-defense.

Self-defense can be used as a legal defense for several crimes including:

Murder;
Aggravated assault;
Aggravated battery; and
Assault with a deadly weapon.

So, do your research first next time, like i did.

What danger did they present while they were running away?

I'm curious.

I have no idea if they were running away, the video certainly does not show this at all. However lots of people have been killed or injured by offenders who were retreating. Its quite possible to fire a gun and kill someone under those circumstances which has indeed happened many times.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #268 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:36pm

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:34pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:27pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:25pm:

Alinta wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 7:37pm:

I stand by my posted views on this. I read in full the link you posted and have also researched other relevant links.

If you did read the link you would have come across this
Quote:

Of course, not all self-defense situations occur inside your home. Even though there is not a specific statute for standing your ground, California law does recognize your right to defend yourself with deadly force. California Jury Instructions (CALCRIM #505 and #506) describe this as “justifiable homicide.”

A jury is instructed to find you innocent of homicide, assault or other charges if you were acting reasonably under the circumstance. A reasonable circumstance under California Jury Instructions #505 and #506 means:

You reasonably believed you were in danger of being injured or killed;
You reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent this from happening; and
You used no more force than was necessary to stop the threat.4
If you are facing a reasonable threat of being injured or killed, you do not have to run away under California law. As long as you did not make the first strike, a skilled criminal defense attorney can argue that you were acting in self-defense.

Self-defense can be used as a legal defense for several crimes including:

Murder;
Aggravated assault;
Aggravated battery; and
Assault with a deadly weapon.

So, do your research first next time, like i did.

What danger did they present while they were running away?

I'm curious.

I have no idea if they were running away, the video certainly does not show this at all.

The video quite clearly shows it, and the police confirm that they were being "chased".

I don't know about you, but people running away from me don't bother me too much.

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Bobby.

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Re: Shoots and kills two would-be burglars ...
Reply #269 - Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:39pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 8:36pm:

The video quite clearly shows it, and the police confirm that they were being "chased".

I don't know about you, but people running away from me don't bother me too much.

Greggy feels so sorry for those poor home invaders & burglars.

Greggy is as forgiving as Christ himself.

Maybe Greggy is the new Messiah we have waited for?

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