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Hanson on Autistic kids (Read 19910 times)
mothra
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #405 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:28am
 
There's been a tremendous amount of research done, Cods.

Have you read it?

I've provided some links just above. Perhaps you would like to look at them?
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cods
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #406 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:34am
 
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/radio/waleed-aly-explains-what-pauline-h...

THE Project's Waleed Aly has spoken candidly about what it’s like raising a child with autism, one day after Pauline Hanson’s controversial suggestion that children with autism spectrum disorder be removed from mainstream classrooms.
The Gold Logie winner rarely talks about his private life with wife Dr Susan Carland or the 2011 diagnosis of his nine-year-old son Zayd, but has explained the misconceptions that senator Hanson and others have about autism during an interview on the Hit Network's Carrie & Tommy radio show.
“For us it showed up in his unbelievable obsession with trains,” he told hosts Carrie Bickmore and Tommy Little. “It showed up in early years when we would tell him off and he would look at us blankly like, ‘Why are you making these noises?’ He wouldn’t pick up the social cues.”
Aly said his son was “high functioning”, which means the differences in his behaviour compared to another child of the same age are hard to spot. He said it was a “relief” to hear his son’s diagnosis and said “it's easy to handle once you know what you’re dealing with”.
“I actually thought, ‘Oh great, the world makes sense now’. And now we know exactly what to do, we can handle this. And he’s thriving, he’s coping really well,” he said. “But I can imagine for other parents it wouldn’t be like that at all. Because when you have a diagnosis, what that triggers in a lot of people’s minds is this is lifelong and I suppose it kind of is.”
Aly said the major issue with Hanson’s suggestion this week is there are subtleties when it comes to where each child with autism falls on the spectrum.
“One of the problems with
autism — and one of the problems with what Pauline Hanson said about it yesterday — it’s not that it’s never true that it can be really difficult for teachers. But it’s that the experience of autism is so diverse that you can’t possibly categorise it in this way,” he said.
The One Nation leader came under fire when she made the comments during debate on the federal government’s proposed schools overhaul in the Senate on Wednesday, insisting that parents and teachers had raised the matter with her.
Teachers were devoting much of their time to disabled children, to the detriment of other students in the classroom, she said

Aly said “quick fixes” weren’t an appropriate solution.
“There’s an easy way around this. The underlying thing — and this goes for what Pauline Hanson’s talking about as well — there are very easy fixes for a lot of these sorts of things,” he said. “It’s when you lump everything together and try to turn everything into a problem that is to be solved somehow or quarantined from things that are not a problem, that’s when I think life starts to get difficult for people.”
Aly said the challenges of having a child with autism in a classroom can’t be generalised. He said each child diagnosed with the condition is affected in extremely differently ways.
“There’s this saying that goes around among people who either have children with autism or are experts in the area and they say: ‘If you know one person with autism, then you know one person with autism’. It’s incredibly diverse,” he said.
While some kids find it difficult to speak and others are distressed by noise, the father-of-two said his son wanted a lot of physical contact when he was younger.
“They want constant physical contact because it’s something about the wiring in their brain — that’s how they process the world. That’s how they understand where they exist in space is to constantly have things touching them,” he said.
“So he would jump off couches just so he could hit the floor really hard because he liked the sensation — landing on his feet, but he wanted that sensation. He used to ask us, can you cover me with pillows and just lie on me. He just loved that pressure.”
Aly said there are “a million different ways” for kids with autism to learn, which is why the call to have them all removed from classrooms doesn’t make sense.
“ ... For some, it can be actually quite difficult then to be in a classroom environment. And they might need special schooling. But for others, if they’ve got an aid, or even if they’ve just got a teacher who’s just a bit switched on and attentive to it, they’re fine and they thrive. Because often — and this is the case with what used to be called Aspergers — they’re actually really, really good at school. In some cases they can learn in ways other kids simply can’t. So it’s a really diverse set of experiences.”

you may prefer this sad kangaroo...


its what I have been saying all along..

one size doesnt fit all....but then what would I know...

I need to get a doctorate in it like I am sure you have.

before I get any ideas about commenting
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mothra
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #407 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:37am
 
No-one has said one size fits all, Cods.

In fact, people have repeatedly said it doesn't.

Don't you understand that that is our point?
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mothra
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #408 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:38am
 
And can you at least try to communicate without being so damned rude for a change?
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #409 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:49am
 
cods wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:22am:
you do have the stats on that comment I am sure?..

not that bothers me....


I don't, but neither do you as Hanson has not elaborated further.  Until she does we have to take her word for it and in this schrodinger's cat-esk situation we find ourselves in a situation where until she clarifies it we have to assume she has spoken with only a handful of people, only 1 person and also 1000's of people all at once. 

This is not helped by the fact that she's a well documented liar who will exaggerate claims to "prove" her views as legitimate when they're far from it and we are again in a situation where we have to take her word again...

Quote:
this thread really should be  about the system 


It should be, but with people primarily supporting this on the basis that it's a Hanson/One Nation supported issue muddies the waters far too much.

Unless you have some stats to show that this is in fact an issue which I'm sure you must?

not that bothers me....
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #410 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:56am
 
mothra wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:50am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:47am:
So since Hanson's claims based on nothing but the anecdotal musings from a handful of people, has there been any actual research into this issues and any evidence to point to it actually being an issue in the first place?

There will always be pros and cons but which side of the scale are we actually on?

So far it seems the answer to the above depends on if you support Hanson to think she's a shiteating opportunist.

That's not good enough for me.


There has been plenty of research, and it overwhelming confirms that inclusive classrooms produce the best outcomes for all students.

Hanson is, true to form, too stupid to have looked into the issue before she shot her mouth off.



How does forcing the smart kids wait until the retard kids pick basic concepts produce the 'best outcomes' exactly?



Primary school was fkken nightmare because of the bullsh1t inclusiveness, couldn't wait until high school when the dumb sh1t got filtered into their own class rooms.


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greggerypeccary
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #411 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:58am
 
BigOl64 wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:56am:
mothra wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:50am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:47am:
So since Hanson's claims based on nothing but the anecdotal musings from a handful of people, has there been any actual research into this issues and any evidence to point to it actually being an issue in the first place?

There will always be pros and cons but which side of the scale are we actually on?

So far it seems the answer to the above depends on if you support Hanson to think she's a shiteating opportunist.

That's not good enough for me.


There has been plenty of research, and it overwhelming confirms that inclusive classrooms produce the best outcomes for all students.

Hanson is, true to form, too stupid to have looked into the issue before she shot her mouth off.



How does forcing the smart kids wait until the retard kids pick basic concepts produce the 'best outcomes' exactly?



Primary school was fkken nightmare ...




The hardest ten years of your life, so I've been told.

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SadKangaroo
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #412 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:12pm
 
mothra wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:37am:
No-one has said one size fits all, Cods.

In fact, people have repeatedly said it doesn't.

Don't you understand that that is our point?


A have a friend (warning anecdotal alert!) who is a new school teacher, only 5 years without her Training Wheels.  She is at a Private School in Brisbane and over the years has taught grade 2-5.  She has a "special needs" student last year and it was admittedly a huge strain on her.  She (the student) was on the spectrum and was easily distracted but would often react very badly when confronted by intimidating situations.

The entire class rallied around her and everyone looked out for her.  She was even made vice class captain and from what I've been told by the end of the year she was a totally different girl.  Less enclosed in her shell, she had friends, a whole class full and was ranked in the top of her year academically.

My friend was certainly impacted as the teacher with the extra work in keeping the atmosphere in the classroom more "friendly" to this student and she was thankful this year not to get another one like her but she stands by her claim that none of the other students were brought down by her presence in the classroom, no more at least than a class clown with no academic future who is only in school because it's the law.

I never really thought about her story (my friend) until now.

I think this just goes to show that Hanson's blanket comments are not helpful whatsoever.  If the silver lining is an actual debate, research and facts can come out of this then at least something good can come from Hanson's and One Nation's ignorance.

One of the things that has annoyed me the most is some of what I've read online about this.  I have a lot of "lurker" accounts on different sites around the web.  I've been lurking on here for years before I bothered to post back.  I don't agree with a lot of what I've read here over the years but it's been no reason to stop reading.  I'd hate to be stuck in a bubble of like minded people because there is no way to grow or challenge your own way of thinking there.

Point being, there are some very pro One Nation facebook groups and forums, more so than even here, where who I assume to be parents are saying they support what Hanson has been saying because they don't want their children in the same class as retards and that must explain why their children are doing so badly in school and get so much homework because there is no time to do the work in class.

While I admire their care for their children's education, it sounds nothing more than them not wanting to put the time in with their own children to help their education and instead want to find a scapegoat to blame their poor grades on.  Some of their children may even be on the spectrum but undiagnosed leading to them fighting for a position that is counter to their own kids best needs.

My nephew has ASD and is a slower learner but my sister has taken it all in her strides and is doing her best to help him and we all do what we can.  He already feels different and he's only 7 years old because it can sometimes take him longer to understand something.  I can't think of a worse situation for his development than to be taken away from all his friends and put into a "special" class.

It also runs me over the years when our own Mum just didn't and I don't think she does yet get it because she keeps saying things like "leave <nephew> with me for an hour, I'll straighten him out".  I'm in a way glad she and many people don't understand it because they've never had to deal first hand with Autism, but that's little comfort to those who do and have to put up with their stupid but well intentioned comments, looks and murmurs.

So again, if a genuine debate with the aims of the best outcomes for both mainstream students and those Hanson was targeting I'll be happy.  One Nation can even chalk it up as a win for all I care.  Some things are more important that petty political squabbling.
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mothra
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #413 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:23pm
 
That's what the research tells us Kanga. That the peers rally around each other. That it teaches patience and empathy. That having inclusive classrooms provides the best outcomes for both the otherly-abled child and their peers.

I reiterate (for the umpteenth time), to allay stress on teachers, we need smaller class sizes and teacher's aides.
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #414 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:25pm
 
BigOl64 wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:56am:
mothra wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:50am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:47am:
So since Hanson's claims based on nothing but the anecdotal musings from a handful of people, has there been any actual research into this issues and any evidence to point to it actually being an issue in the first place?

There will always be pros and cons but which side of the scale are we actually on?

So far it seems the answer to the above depends on if you support Hanson to think she's a shiteating opportunist.

That's not good enough for me.


There has been plenty of research, and it overwhelming confirms that inclusive classrooms produce the best outcomes for all students.

Hanson is, true to form, too stupid to have looked into the issue before she shot her mouth off.



How does forcing the smart kids wait until the retard kids pick basic concepts produce the 'best outcomes' exactly?



Primary school was fkken nightmare because of the bullsh1t inclusiveness, couldn't wait until high school when the dumb sh1t got filtered into their own class rooms.




One would assume there are more outcomes than the academic ones. 

The fact that you're calling them "the retard kid" shows that you had a poor outcome in that specific area.

One could claim in that sense, you're a retard too?

Empathy is not a weakness in modern society but there does need to be a line between showing compassion for your fellow man and sacrificing too much personally.

But by you logic, who sets the benchmark?  Are we to start segregating classrooms so children who don't understand something the first time get sent off to the retard room?  Do you even remember what it was like being in school?

For me most of my classes in primary school were 25 to 30+ students, more in the composite classes.  Are you trying to tell me you understood everything the first time you were told every day of your educational life?

Or does it only matter if you've deemed the kid to be a retard?

This is the problem that we face on this topic.  Those who have not had to deal with Autism in their lives are frankly being smacking arseholes and know bugger all about what they're talking about so their ignorance and knowledge gaps are filled by their prejudice.
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #415 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:26pm
 
mothra wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:23pm:
That's what the research tells us Kanga. That the peers rally around each other. That it teaches patience and empathy. That having inclusive classrooms provides the best outcomes for both the otherly-abled child and their peers.

I reiterate (for the umpteenth time), to allay stress on teachers, we need smaller class sizes and teacher's aides.


As I said before, if that's the outcome we get, I'll be the first to thank Hanson.

She can still go bugger herself for the rest of the braindead rhetoric she and her party spew, but credit where it is due for bringing the debate into the spotlight.
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mothra
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #416 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:30pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:26pm:
mothra wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:23pm:
That's what the research tells us Kanga. That the peers rally around each other. That it teaches patience and empathy. That having inclusive classrooms provides the best outcomes for both the otherly-abled child and their peers.

I reiterate (for the umpteenth time), to allay stress on teachers, we need smaller class sizes and teacher's aides.


As I said before, if that's the outcome we get, I'll be the first to thank Hanson.

She can still go bugger herself for the rest of the braindead rhetoric she and her party spew, but credit where it is due for bringing the debate into the spotlight.



It's a pity that she has offended so many people along the way.

True to form, but a pity.
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #417 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:32pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:49am:
cods wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:22am:
you do have the stats on that comment I am sure?..

not that bothers me....


I don't, but neither do you as Hanson has not elaborated further.  Until she does we have to take her word for it and in this schrodinger's cat-esk situation we find ourselves in a situation where until she clarifies it we have to assume she has spoken with only a handful of people, only 1 person and also 1000's of people all at once. 

This is not helped by the fact that she's a well documented liar who will exaggerate claims to "prove" her views as legitimate when they're far from it and we are again in a situation where we have to take her word again...

Quote:
this thread really should be  about the system 


It should be, but with people primarily supporting this on the basis that it's a Hanson/One Nation supported issue muddies the waters far too much.

Unless you have some stats to show that this is in fact an issue which I'm sure you must?

not that bothers me....


fair enough sorry I butted in..

I thought I was helping  obviously not.
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #418 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
there has been a lot of dark talk about SEGREGATION..

at least I thought so.. sorry if that sounds rude...not my intentions..

I prefer to agree to disagree...   that is my idea of debate.

I got it wrong again. Angry
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Re: Hanson on Autistic kids
Reply #419 - Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:54pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 12:25pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 11:56am:
mothra wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:50am:
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 24th, 2017 at 10:47am:
So since Hanson's claims based on nothing but the anecdotal musings from a handful of people, has there been any actual research into this issues and any evidence to point to it actually being an issue in the first place?

There will always be pros and cons but which side of the scale are we actually on?

So far it seems the answer to the above depends on if you support Hanson to think she's a shiteating opportunist.

That's not good enough for me.


There has been plenty of research, and it overwhelming confirms that inclusive classrooms produce the best outcomes for all students.

Hanson is, true to form, too stupid to have looked into the issue before she shot her mouth off.



How does forcing the smart kids wait until the retard kids pick basic concepts produce the 'best outcomes' exactly?



Primary school was fkken nightmare because of the bullsh1t inclusiveness, couldn't wait until high school when the dumb sh1t got filtered into their own class rooms.




One would assume there are more outcomes than the academic ones. 

The fact that you're calling them "the retard kid" shows that you had a poor outcome in that specific area.

One could claim in that sense, you're a retard too?

Empathy is not a weakness in modern society but there does need to be a line between showing compassion for your fellow man and sacrificing too much personally.

But by you logic, who sets the benchmark?  Are we to start segregating classrooms so children who don't understand something the first time get sent off to the retard room?  Do you even remember what it was like being in school?

For me most of my classes in primary school were 25 to 30+ students, more in the composite classes.  Are you trying to tell me you understood everything the first time you were told every day of your educational life?

Or does it only matter if you've deemed the kid to be a retard?

This is the problem that we face on this topic.  Those who have not had to deal with Autism in their lives are frankly being smacking arseholes and know bugger all about what they're talking about so their ignorance and knowledge gaps are filled by their prejudice.




The main reason to go to school is academic, otherwise you could just spend 12 years hanging around a skate park and have all the integration you need. Nothing should interfere with the academic program everything else is secondary.


Did you not have stupid children in your school? By the time we got to high school they were separated out into their own classes for the express purpose of ensuring they did not interfere with everyone else's academic progress. If for some reason you wanted to 'hang' with the lazy and the stupid your were free to do so in your own time.


As for my own academic progress I can assure you I did not interfere with any of my class mates learning by being a burden, just how the school design it.

So retards into the retard classes learning at a retards pace and so on and so forth.


Im not just talking about autism Im talking about all the intellectual anchors fkking up the learning of others.



Learning is the first priority, kumbaya signing for those who want it, because learning isn't their 'thing'.


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