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Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic (Read 12961 times)
Auggie
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Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
May 26th, 2017 at 2:53pm
 
So, recently, there have been a few Forum members claiming that my ideas are shallow and that they have capacity to think deeply about the big issues, and challenge existing structures.

In the realm of politics, nothing is bigger or more deep than challenging our current political structure. So, for the purposes of those people who wish to prove to themselves that they are on par with me in terms of the capacity to think deeply and challenge existing structures...

I propose that we have a Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic, similar to the ones held in the 1890s in the Federal Constitutional Conventions.

I put my hand up to the be the President of the Convention, subject to approval by the members. We can have a Vice President etc. at the suggestion of other members of this Forum.
--
In order to the get the ball rolling, I will make the first proposal for change in the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900:

Alteration 1 - House of Representatives

Section 24, paragraph 1. Repeal the paragraph, insert: -

"The House of Representatives shall be composed of members directly chosen by the people of the Commonwealth,and the number of such members shall be, as nearly as practicable, twice the number of the senators..

Section 28 - Repeal the section; insert -

"Every House of Representatives shall continue for three five years from the first meeting of the House, and no longer, but may sooner be dissolved by the Governor-General.

Section 31 - Repeal the section; insert -

"Until the Parliament otherwise provides, but subject to this Constitution, the laws in force in each State for the time being relating to elections for the more numerous House of the Parliament of the State shall, as nearly as practicable, apply to elections in the State of members of the House of Representatives.

"The manner of choosing the members of the House of Representatives shall be in accordance with the system of proportional representation by means of a mixed-member system."



Alteration 2 - The Senate

Section 7, paragraph 2 - repeal the section:

"But until the Parliament of the Commonwealth otherwise provides, the Parliament of the State of Queensland, if that State be an Original State, may make laws dividing the State into divisions and determining the number of senators to be chosen for each division, and in the absence of such provision the State shall be one electorate."

Section 7, paragraph 3, repeal the section; insert: -

"Until the Parliament otherwise provides there shall be six senators for each Original State. The Parliament may make laws increasing or diminishing the number of senators for each State,5 but so that equal representation of the several Original States shall be maintained and that no Original State shall have less than six senators." There shall be six senators for each State.

Section 13, repeal the section; insert: -

"As soon as may be after the Senate first meets, and after each first meeting of the Senate following a dissolution thereof, the Senate shall divide the senators chosen for each State into two classes, as nearly equal in number as practicable; and the places of the senators of the first class shall become vacant at the expiration of three years, and the places of those of the second class at the expiration of six years, from the beginning of their term of service; and afterwards the places of senators shall become vacant at the expiration of six years from the beginning of their term of service.

The election to fill vacant places shall be made within one year before the places are to become vacant.

For the purposes of this section the term of service of a senator shall be taken to begin on the first day of July following the day of his election, except in the cases of the first election and of the election next after any dissolution of the Senate, when it shall be taken to begin on the first day of July preceding the day of his election."


As soon as may be after the Senate first meets, and after each first meeting of the Senate following a dissolution thereof, the Senate shall divide the senators into six classes (according to their States, to be chosen by lot); and the places of the first class of senators (the first State) shall be vacated at the expiration of one year; of the second State at the expiration of two years; of the third State at the expiration of three years; of the fourth State at the expiration of four years; of the fifth State at the expiration of five years; and of the final State at the expiration of six years; and thereafter each senator shall be chosen every six years according to their State.





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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2017 at 3:04pm by Auggie »  

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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #1 - May 26th, 2017 at 2:57pm
 
Insert:

Quote:
Every House of Representatives shall continue for three years from the first meeting of the House, and no longer, but may be sooner dissolved by the Governor-General.


Cool
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Auggie
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #2 - May 26th, 2017 at 3:06pm
 
Aussie wrote on May 26th, 2017 at 2:57pm:
Insert:

Quote:
Every House of Representatives shall continue for three years from the first meeting of the House, and no longer, but may be sooner dissolved by the Governor-General.


Cool


The member Aussie has proposed to retain '... shall continue for three years...' Please indicate yay or nay to MY change. Nay for 3 years, or Yay for 5 years; or you may propose an alternate alteration.

The measure adopted will be determined by a majority of the votes of those participating.
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #3 - May 26th, 2017 at 3:10pm
 




Delete sect 116 - make everything a privilege and no special treatment for anyone.


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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #4 - May 27th, 2017 at 7:58am
 
We should adopt voting by delegable proxy in the Senate. This would allow you to increase the lower house terms also. We could trial it by reintroducing the QLD state Senate.
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2017 at 11:06am
 
freediver wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 7:58am:
We should adopt voting by delegable proxy in the Senate. This would allow you to increase the lower house terms also. We could trial it by reintroducing the QLD state Senate.


This dead horse of yours, Effendi?

Link.
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #6 - May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am
 
I vote for the creation of a Republic with Her Maj as a figurehead, and for the abolition of slavery....

1. The House of Representatives shall be composed of members directly chosen by the people of the Commonwealth.

2. Every House of Representatives shall continue for THREE years from the first meeting of the House, and no longer, but may sooner be dissolved by the Governor-General.

*Politicians are like nappies, they should be changed often and for the same reason.

3.  There will be no decision by the government of the day on which Senators will stand for re-election for a half-Senate election, the matter to be determined by lot.

4.  Provision shall be made for Citizen Provided Initiated Referenda. (ah - that's the word)...

5.  Politicians elect and their immediate families shall be forbidden from engaging in commercial activity in any venture that may arise from government policy, present or intended, and legal penalties shall apply for failure to refrain from doing so, up to and including loss of seat and pension rights plus other sanctions.

6.  No Party may proceed with a policy it has not aired before the electorate prior to election - i.e. there is no absolute mandate to do whatever any party wishes to do once installed in majority.  Exception may be made in cases of genuine emergency.

7.  Politicians past shall be forbidden from engaging in any lobbying or input activity to government for a period of ten years. 

*No commercial enterprise calls on the services of its past employees for a casual nod..... once you're out, you're out, and these d1cks remain party members and still have their local vote etc... we're not here to provide them with a little cash now and then.

8.  Compensation shall be made via fair compensation for proven costs of serving the people, on the basis of a fair accounting and within prescribed limits.

9.  Remuneration shall be reviewed on the basis of performance for the electorate annually, with a base salary of AWE, and any bonus accorded directly by the electorate.
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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2017 at 12:03pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #7 - May 28th, 2017 at 5:40pm
 
freediver wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 7:58am:
We should adopt voting by delegable proxy in the Senate. This would allow you to increase the lower house terms also. We could trial it by reintroducing the QLD state Senate.


That's what they do in Germany - or at least a version in it. The delegates in the Bundesrat are made up of members of the State Governments, and the members must vote as one bloc.
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #8 - May 28th, 2017 at 5:48pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
2. Every House of Representatives shall continue for THREE years from the first meeting of the House, and no longer, but may sooner be dissolved by the Governor-General.

*Politicians are like nappies, they should be changed often and for the same reason.


The issue is, Ye Grappler, is that 3 years isn't enough time to do anything substantial. You need to think of terms as 'budgets'. Each government has the chance to present 3 budgets (maximum) to the people. I think this is too short-term; five-year terms can ensure long-term policies.

Also, just because the House can continue for 5 years doesn't mean that it will. The UK has five-year terms, but they recently called an election; i.e. this Parliament has only continued for 2 years. The 5-year term means that the Government can go on for five years.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
3.  There will be no decision by the government of the day on which Senators will stand for re-election for a half-Senate election, the matter to be determined by lot.


Why not have fixed-term Parliaments?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
4.  Provision shall be made for Citizen Provided Initiated Referenda. (ah - that's the word)...


Yes, good idea.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
5.  Politicians elect and their immediate families shall be forbidden from engaging in commercial activity in any venture that may arise from government policy, present or intended, and legal penalties shall apply for failure to refrain from doing so, up to and including loss of seat and pension rights plus other sanctions.


Yes, good idea.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
6.  No Party may proceed with a policy it has not aired before the electorate prior to election - i.e. there is no absolute mandate to do whatever any party wishes to do once installed in majority.  Exception may be made in cases of genuine emergency.


This is problematic. It would only result in the political parties making vague promises, with no concrete details.

This is where you and I disagree: when the people elect a government, I believe that government does have an absolute mandate to do what it wants, because it is subject to re-election by the people. The people can punish the government by not voting them back in. Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
7.  Politicians past shall be forbidden from engaging in any lobbying or input activity to government for a period of ten years. 


Agreed.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
9.  Remuneration shall be reviewed on the basis of performance for the electorate annually, with a base salary of AWE, and any bonus accorded directly by the electorate.


Question: how do you determine performance? What are the indicators?

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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #9 - May 28th, 2017 at 5:51pm
 
freediver wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 7:58am:
We should adopt voting by delegable proxy in the Senate. This would allow you to increase the lower house terms also. We could trial it by reintroducing the QLD state Senate.


I wouldn't be adverse to a States' House: provided that we adopt a voting system of proportional representation in the House of Representatives, and in the Legislative Assemblies of the States.
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #10 - May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm
 
Auggie wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 5:48pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
2. Every House of Representatives shall continue for THREE years from the first meeting of the House, and no longer, but may sooner be dissolved by the Governor-General.

*Politicians are like nappies, they should be changed often and for the same reason.


The issue is, Ye Grappler, is that 3 years isn't enough time to do anything substantial. You need to think of terms as 'budgets'. Each government has the chance to present 3 budgets (maximum) to the people. I think this is too short-term; five-year terms can ensure long-term policies.

Also, just because the House can continue for 5 years doesn't mean that it will. The UK has five-year terms, but they recently called an election; i.e. this Parliament has only continued for 2 years. The 5-year term means that the Government can go on for five years.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
3.  There will be no decision by the government of the day on which Senators will stand for re-election for a half-Senate election, the matter to be determined by lot.


Why not have fixed-term Parliaments?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
4.  Provision shall be made for Citizen Provided Initiated Referenda. (ah - that's the word)...


Yes, good idea.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
5.  Politicians elect and their immediate families shall be forbidden from engaging in commercial activity in any venture that may arise from government policy, present or intended, and legal penalties shall apply for failure to refrain from doing so, up to and including loss of seat and pension rights plus other sanctions.


Yes, good idea.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
6.  No Party may proceed with a policy it has not aired before the electorate prior to election - i.e. there is no absolute mandate to do whatever any party wishes to do once installed in majority.  Exception may be made in cases of genuine emergency.


This is problematic. It would only result in the political parties making vague promises, with no concrete details.

This is where you and I disagree: when the people elect a government, I believe that government does have an absolute mandate to do what it wants, because it is subject to re-election by the people. The people can punish the government by not voting them back in. Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
7.  Politicians past shall be forbidden from engaging in any lobbying or input activity to government for a period of ten years. 


Agreed.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 27th, 2017 at 11:48am:
9.  Remuneration shall be reviewed on the basis of performance for the electorate annually, with a base salary of AWE, and any bonus accorded directly by the electorate.


Question: how do you determine performance? What are the indicators?



Thing is - based on past history - the public don't want them to do anything more substantial than they already do.  It's not as if politicians are actually managing the nation for us - they see their job as playing politics and making points in the house - not designing a full and proper restoration of the economy and overall standards of living, and actually working for the best outcomes for ALL, and not just their own selected groups.

Parties that make vague promises would be no different than the current lot - they studiously avoid pre-election discussion of their real intentions, then expect a gullible public to wait three years to kick them out for lying etc.  On top of that, they pretend that there are 'issues' for party ideological reasons, and then foist them on that same public, who essentially have no say in the matter, since their choices are few at any future election.

The reason for an offset half senate election is to ensure that no (unthinking) popular support for one party or the other will result in an absolute majority in both Houses - a good thing to keep the parties hones.

I'm afraid you would need to leave 'performance' up to the voters in the electorate specifically - if the incumbent was seen to be doing a good job for the electorate that voted him/her in AND the nation as a whole (the public are by no means stupid) - the representative would do well out of it.  If not - tough titties.
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #11 - May 28th, 2017 at 6:08pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm:
Thing is - based on past history - the public don't want them to do anything more substantial than they already do.


Hold on? That's not correct. The public is always calling for more government: Medicare, Centrelink, now the NDIS. IMO, much of the electorate expect government to improve their living standards.

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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #12 - May 28th, 2017 at 6:13pm
 
Auggie wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:08pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm:
Thing is - based on past history - the public don't want them to do anything more substantial than they already do.


Hold on? That's not correct. The public is always calling for more government: Medicare, Centrelink, now the NDIS. IMO, much of the electorate expect government to improve their living standards.



Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm:
It's not as if politicians are actually managing the nation for us


Actually, yes, they are. They determine the budget, and manage the day to day aspect of government. Am I missing something here?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm:
they see their job as playing politics and making points in the house


That's part of democracy and party politics.

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm:
not designing a full and proper restoration of the economy and overall standards of living, and actually working for the best outcomes for ALL, and not just their own selected groups.


Isn't that the purpose of Medicare and other government benefits?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm:
Parties that make vague promises would be no different than the current lot - they studiously avoid pre-election discussion of their real intentions, then expect a gullible public to wait three years to kick them out for lying etc.  On top of that, they pretend that there are 'issues' for party ideological reasons, and then foist them on that same public, who essentially have no say in the matter, since their choices are few at any future election.


The reason why parties make vague promises is because the broader electorate doesn't have the time to understand the complexity of each policy and issue. Also, politics is about telling people what they want to hear. You think any politician would demonize single-mothers for making stupid choices about whom they slept with? Of course not. People get offended easily.

I don't understand what you mean by 'the public has no say on the matter.' We do vote for our local candidate, and determine who gets into government. We then re-elect them or not each time. The issue here is that if a government is re-elected then the public have approved of their agenda.
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #13 - May 28th, 2017 at 6:14pm
 
Auggie wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:08pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 28th, 2017 at 6:05pm:
Thing is - based on past history - the public don't want them to do anything more substantial than they already do.


Hold on? That's not correct. The public is always calling for more government: Medicare, Centrelink, now the NDIS. IMO, much of the electorate expect government to improve their living standards.



You equate Government with social services?
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Re: Constitutional Convention on OzPolitic
Reply #14 - May 28th, 2017 at 6:16pm
 
Quote:
You equate Government with social services?


Absolutely: you can't have social services system like we have in Australia without Government. The provision of adequate social services (to the extend we have them in Australia and many countries) requires coercive institutions; i.e. government.
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