Australian Politics Forum - Defence against terror

mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34535 Gender:	Re: Defence against terror Reply #30 - May 24^th, 2017 at 2:34pm Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:22pm: Rose, you keep referring to western engagements in the middle east. What control do teenage girls at a pop concert have over England's adventures in the gulf? What control do teenage girls in the Middle East have over the justifications for why they are being bombed?
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Gordon

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #31 - May 24^th, 2017 at 2:36pm

mothra wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:34pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:22pm:

Rose, you keep referring to western engagements in the middle east. What control do teenage girls at a pop concert have over England's adventures in the gulf?

What control do teenage girls in the Middle East have over the justifications for why they are being bombed?

What control do Yazidi girls in the Middle East have over being taken as sex slaves by Sunni Muslims?

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tickleandrose

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #32 - May 24^th, 2017 at 2:45pm

Valkie wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 1:56pm:

tickleandrose wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 10:31am:

Valkie wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 10:22am:

When I was in China a few years ago.
Some muzzo nutcases went ape and started slashing people at a train station.

The Chinese didnt f#€k around.
They rounded up every single muzzo in the country.
They took them, every one ma, woman and child to re-education centres and had a chat with them.

Yes there were a few who didnt come back.

But there were and have been no more terrorist attacks by muzzos in China since.

Perhaps when dealing with mentally retarded fanatic CULT followers
You need to use draconian methods.

We need to do the same, as does every other country.
Round them all up.
Give them a good talking to, letting them know that yhey are being watched.
Take out the troublemakers and the obvious dangeroous ones and let the others know that it will happen again, even worse next time.

I am unsure where you have obtained your information from. But it is just physically and financially impossible for even the Chinese Authority to round up every muslim in China, and march them into education camps. Perhaps, at best mass arrest of anyone related to the perpetrators, which is very possible for a regime with questionable human rights issues.

Let me ask this, if we resort of drastic measure like what you have described above. Arent we then doing exactly what the terrorist want us to do? Would it not further their cause and make the situation worse?

Something to think about perhaps.

And its just this sort of thinking that allows terrorists to get away with what they do.

China my friend, has a very large army, the police are effectivly impotent, no one really pays them any attention, but when the guys in green come out, its a totally different matter.
I was in China when the attack took place.
There were military everywhere.
Perhaps not in every provence, but all the major cities were flooded with them.
They were at the stations, going from unit to unit, arresting all known muzzos.
Trucks were on the road all day and night for a week.

We need to come down HARD on muzzos.
They believe, they know they can get away with virtually anything by screaming RACIST or ISLAMAPHOBE.
They need to be brought back in line.
No more tents
No more protests
No more terrorist schools and
No more immigration from muzzo countries.

Make them work and contribute or kick them out.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Its time the Australian, no THE WORLD took note and f#$ked off these parasitical, pedophile, murdering retards once and for all.

I have asked on many occasions what good this CULT has brought to the world
The only answer I got was coffee, that is it?

They are worthless, useless, and should be either made to be human or piss orf.
NO MORE MR NICE GUY.

I am sorry Valkie. I wish that things are so simple. But the world is not black and white. I know you are a good person, because like me, you are frustrated at so much evil being committed in this world. And its getting closer and closer to home. You are very protective of your daughter, and I bet that you will do anything to protect her from harm, and that she is innocent in this world of chaos, like all the children that perished in Manchester.

But rounding up other innocent people who have absolutely nothing to do with the attacks is just not the answer. There are also fathers on the other side who have daughters. You may want to think that they are all guilty because they are islamic. But it is the exact same thing, when the terrorist would have their underlings believe your daughter is guilty because of our government.

At the end, we then have a situation where people on opposite sides do not treat or respect each other as humans. And THIS is precisely what the terrorist want you to do.

I firmly believe that the bravest and the right thing to do, is that, despite our fears. We will hold hands with our muslim neighbors. We should stand together rather be divided, and send a clear message to the terrorist that tried to divide us. That we all condemn this atrocity, terrorism have no place in modern society. And we stand united regardless how many bombs or bullets you rain down on us.

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mothra

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #33 - May 24^th, 2017 at 2:48pm

Gordon wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:36pm:

mothra wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:34pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:22pm:

Rose, you keep referring to western engagements in the middle east. What control do teenage girls at a pop concert have over England's adventures in the gulf?

What control do teenage girls in the Middle East have over the justifications for why they are being bombed?

What control do Yazidi girls in the Middle East have over being taken as sex slaves by Sunni Muslims?

The same control girls all over world have over being taken as sex slaves by all sorts of people. None at all.

Yet you only lend your voice to some.

Inconsistency born of bigotry and ignorance.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34535 Gender:	Re: Defence against terror Reply #34 - May 24^th, 2017 at 2:49pm I think it's time to tell me you don't care what i think now Gordy. Unless you have another question?
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Mr Hammer

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #35 - May 24^th, 2017 at 2:53pm

mothra wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:48pm:

Gordon wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:36pm:

mothra wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:34pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:22pm:

Rose, you keep referring to western engagements in the middle east. What control do teenage girls at a pop concert have over England's adventures in the gulf?

What control do teenage girls in the Middle East have over the justifications for why they are being bombed?

What control do Yazidi girls in the Middle East have over being taken as sex slaves by Sunni Muslims?

The same control girls all over world have over being taken as sex slaves by all sorts of people. None at all.

Yet you only lend your voice to some.

Inconsistency born of bigotry and ignorance.

Sorry, you mean Boko Haram, right?

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mothra

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #36 - May 24^th, 2017 at 2:56pm

Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:53pm:

mothra wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:48pm:

Gordon wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:36pm:

mothra wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:34pm:

Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:22pm:

Rose, you keep referring to western engagements in the middle east. What control do teenage girls at a pop concert have over England's adventures in the gulf?

What control do teenage girls in the Middle East have over the justifications for why they are being bombed?

What control do Yazidi girls in the Middle East have over being taken as sex slaves by Sunni Muslims?

The same control girls all over world have over being taken as sex slaves by all sorts of people. None at all.

Yet you only lend your voice to some.

Inconsistency born of bigotry and ignorance.

Sorry, you mean Boko Haram, right?

I mean sex trafficking all over the world, Hammer. Even here in Australia.

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Mr Hammer Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 25212 Gender:	Re: Defence against terror Reply #37 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:09pm Ideologically speaking, though, it's Islam again, innit? Just sayin'!
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34535 Gender:	Re: Defence against terror Reply #38 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:12pm Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 3:09pm: Ideologically speaking, though, it's Islam again, innit? Just sayin'! No. It most certainly isn't only Muslims. Not by a long shot. It is invariably men though. Should we blame all men? As a man, will you apologise for them?
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #39 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:22pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:15pm:

Re Sprintcyclist:

Thank you for your comment. Judging from the smiley faces from Btwood, I guess, people think I meant that I would sit down next to a terrorist, and play harp to change his mind. No... I had been called an idealist before, but I am not that naive. (I think...)

First of all, the ongoing war. Well.. It had been many years since we invaded Iraq, the Syrian civil war had been going for what... 10 years as well. The US + western allies, the Russians, the Syrians, and even ISIL themselves had bombed the same areas, again and again and again at the cost of trillions of dollars. And it changed nothing. The area continue to be unstable, and a hot bed for terrorism. And then, its just the Iraq and Syria area. There are other basket cases as well. So... do we really think... putting a trillion dollar more worth of bomb into the same area going to improve things? Really? I mean it is one thing to act tough... another to make things worse by trying to act tough...

Secondily, I am fully aware that there is no way to convince terrorist to change their minds. As I mentioned before a number of times, in fact, even if there is no Islam, they will still come up with something to justify their twisted actions. However, what is important is that we do not drive more people away towards the terrorist - let me explain.

Make no mistake, acts of terrorism do create panic and fear in the community. Because, we are afraid that we may be next or get caught in the crossfire. So alot of us gravitate towards those who we preceived strong, and have the answer. And out came the ultra right wing. Why? Because, they have a simple strategy and a simple answer. They are all muslims, we should round them up and get rid of them. Problem solved. Well. I am sorry to say, that is a lie. It will not get rid of the problem, the root cause is far more complicated, and its in Syria /Iraq. Rounding up innocent people here is going to do nothing to the root cause.

But, what it will create is fear and panick amoung the muslim population here, who have the equal danger of being blown up by the terrorist or get caught in the cross fire, but also have the added worry of reprisal from non muslim members. I mean just imagine that you are a muslim citizen, say a doctor. You saw the atrocity as you were working your normal job, and suddenly you get this weirdo from the street calling you a terrorist and why you do this. I mean thats just so perverted.

Anyway, some more weaker minded individual then will seek out the ultra right wing version in the Islam world - who have the quick answer. Namely, yes, there is a holy war coming, come and be a hero etc etc and the rest is history.

Modern day terrorism is not about battle for lands or resources, it is about the battle for the hearts and minds of individuals in the middle. And that is an area where we are losing, and that is why even after trillions of dollars worth of bombs, countless lives lost, terrorism is thriving rather than dying.

thanks for your input Tickle.

have a good day

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39522 Gender:	Re: Defence against terror Reply #40 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:22pm Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 3:09pm: Ideologically speaking, though, it's Islam again, innit? Just sayin'! yes, it IS islam again.
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aquascoot

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #41 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:28pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:15pm:

Re Sprintcyclist:

Thank you for your comment. Judging from the smiley faces from Btwood, I guess, people think I meant that I would sit down next to a terrorist, and play harp to change his mind. No... I had been called an idealist before, but I am not that naive. (I think...)

First of all, the ongoing war. Well.. It had been many years since we invaded Iraq, the Syrian civil war had been going for what... 10 years as well. The US + western allies, the Russians, the Syrians, and even ISIL themselves had bombed the same areas, again and again and again at the cost of trillions of dollars. And it changed nothing. The area continue to be unstable, and a hot bed for terrorism. And then, its just the Iraq and Syria area. There are other basket cases as well. So... do we really think... putting a trillion dollar more worth of bomb into the same area going to improve things? Really? I mean it is one thing to act tough... another to make things worse by trying to act tough...

Secondily, I am fully aware that there is no way to convince terrorist to change their minds. As I mentioned before a number of times, in fact, even if there is no Islam, they will still come up with something to justify their twisted actions. However, what is important is that we do not drive more people away towards the terrorist - let me explain.

Make no mistake, acts of terrorism do create panic and fear in the community. Because, we are afraid that we may be next or get caught in the crossfire. So alot of us gravitate towards those who we preceived strong, and have the answer. And out came the ultra right wing. Why? Because, they have a simple strategy and a simple answer. They are all muslims, we should round them up and get rid of them. Problem solved. Well. I am sorry to say, that is a lie. It will not get rid of the problem, the root cause is far more complicated, and its in Syria /Iraq. Rounding up innocent people here is going to do nothing to the root cause.

But, what it will create is fear and panick amoung the muslim population here, who have the equal danger of being blown up by the terrorist or get caught in the cross fire, but also have the added worry of reprisal from non muslim members. I mean just imagine that you are a muslim citizen, say a doctor. You saw the atrocity as you were working your normal job, and suddenly you get this weirdo from the street calling you a terrorist and why you do this. I mean thats just so perverted.

Anyway, some more weaker minded individual then will seek out the ultra right wing version in the Islam world - who have the quick answer. Namely, yes, there is a holy war coming, come and be a hero etc etc and the rest is history.

Modern day terrorism is not about battle for lands or resources, it is about the battle for the hearts and minds of individuals in the middle. And that is an area where we are losing, and that is why even after trillions of dollars worth of bombs, countless lives lost, terrorism is thriving rather than dying.

i think the problem with the hearts and minds idea is this.

Kim Jong Il and his followers are probably not people you can win over with a "hearts and minds' campaign.
and yet, Kim Jong would probably never be capable of blowing little teenage girls to bits.

the people who are capable of this...their minds are broken.

you will never ever make them safe.

people who are capable of holding signs like this are far more broken then Kim Jong.

and they have self identified as being like this and our politicians accept this behaviour as acceptable.

this does not pass the "sniff" test

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tickleandrose

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #42 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:32pm

Mr Hammer wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 2:22pm:

Rose, you keep referring to western engagements in the middle east. What control do teenage girls at a pop concert have over England's adventures in the gulf?

Mr Hammer. I believe the teenage girls / children are innocent. They have no control. But I would like you to extend this empathy to the law abiding muslim citizen here. They have NO control - absolutely nothing in what ISIS is planning or doing in the gulf. And yet, people here are calling for their deportation, and harm. Can you now see the paradox?

The real issue in this is not about religion. It is about the fear caused by terrorism that is driving us to believe inhumane things. To a degree where, some of us, openly states that they hate everyone from Islam. Human lives are not valued, and moral degenerated. We should not go down this path with the terrorists. We are better than that.

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« Last Edit: May 24^th, 2017 at 3:48pm by tickleandrose »

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tickleandrose

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #43 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:45pm

Quote:

i think the problem with the hearts and minds idea is this.

Kim Jong Il and his followers are probably not people you can win over with a "hearts and minds' campaign.
and yet, Kim Jong would probably never be capable of blowing little teenage girls to bits.

the people who are capable of this...their minds are broken.

you will never ever make them safe.

people who are capable of holding signs like this are far more broken then Kim Jong.

and they have self identified as being like this and our politicians accept this behaviour as acceptable.

this does not pass the "sniff" test

Re Aquascoot:

Some people are too easily influenced, they are often the goons used by the terrorist to carry out attacks. I agree, there is nothing we can do about that. In these cases, then its up to the law enforcement to do their job. But, i'd becareful about changing the laws in the aftermath of a terrorist attack when emotions are high. I believe, if changes are needed, it needed to be thought out, debated properly with a clear mind.

But Aqua you only see the darker side of things. If you talk to someone who works in the field of anti terrorism, you will find that alot of terror plots were stopped because its the muslim relatives of the would be terrorist who give them up. Closer to home, if you remember the gang riot at Flinder street on Labor day. The next day, many youngsters were handed to the police by none other than their parents. The majority of the people are still good in this world.

When we foster a more inclusive society, we send a clear message to the terrorist that we do not agree with their version of the world, and the hell we are going to help them achieve that.

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aquascoot

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Re: Defence against terror
Reply #44 - May 24^th, 2017 at 3:59pm

tickleandrose wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 3:45pm:

Quote:

i think the problem with the hearts and minds idea is this.

Kim Jong Il and his followers are probably not people you can win over with a "hearts and minds' campaign.
and yet, Kim Jong would probably never be capable of blowing little teenage girls to bits.

the people who are capable of this...their minds are broken.

you will never ever make them safe.

people who are capable of holding signs like this are far more broken then Kim Jong.

and they have self identified as being like this and our politicians accept this behaviour as acceptable.

this does not pass the "sniff" test

Re Aquascoot:

Some people are too easily influenced, they are often the goons used by the terrorist to carry out attacks. I agree, there is nothing we can do about that. In these cases, then its up to the law enforcement to do their job. But, i'd becareful about changing the laws in the aftermath of a terrorist attack when emotions are high. I believe, if changes are needed, it needed to be thought out, debated properly with a clear mind.

But Aqua you only see the darker side of things. If you talk to someone who works in the field of anti terrorism, you will find that alot of terror plots were stopped because its the muslim relatives of the would be terrorist who give them up. Closer to home, if you remember the gang riot at Flinder street on Labor day. The next day, many youngsters were handed to the police by none other than their parents. The majority of the people are still good in this world.

When we foster a more inclusive society, we send a clear message to the terrorist that we do not agree with their version of the world, and the hell we are going to help them achieve that.

if this is true then this is a good thing.
but that little boy holding the sign.
i consider that to be a case where he should have been taken by childrens services.
i totally agree not all muslims need to be weeded out,
but when you self identify as a weed, then you need a good dose of herbicide(or is that Herb-icide)
these young ladies for instance...society should not tolerate this.
if you tolerate this, you do not have good personal boundaries

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