Australian Politics Forum - 4 Corners

Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20231 Gordon Gender:	Re: 4 Corners - The Siege Reply #45 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 9:29pm If only Jocko was there
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 95494 Melbourne Gender:	Re: 4 Corners - The Siege Reply #46 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 9:41pm Or guys like these:
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rhino

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #47 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 10:50pm

Gordon wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:16am:

[
Monis got lucky that amongst the hostages there were no trained people to take him out. I don't blame them.

Thats it. But I would add experienced trained people. Most trained martial artists find their fine motor skills go out the window in a situation requiring life and death split second decisions.

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Bobby.

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #48 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:05pm

rhino wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 10:50pm:

Gordon wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:16am:

[
Monis got lucky that amongst the hostages there were no trained people to take him out. I don't blame them.

Thats it. But I would add experienced trained people. Most trained martial artists find their fine motor skills go out the window in a situation requiring life and death split second decisions.

There was certainly no man trained to Australian SAS standards inside that building.
Those guys can kill with their bare hands in an instant.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #49 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:10pm

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:05pm:

rhino wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 10:50pm:

Gordon wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:16am:

[
Monis got lucky that amongst the hostages there were no trained people to take him out. I don't blame them.

Thats it. But I would add experienced trained people. Most trained martial artists find their fine motor skills go out the window in a situation requiring life and death split second decisions.

There was certainly no man trained to Australian SAS standards inside that building.
Those guys can kill with their bare hands in an instant.

Don't believe everything you read in the press...... it's possible... not easy to do.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bobby.

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #50 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:12pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:05pm:

rhino wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 10:50pm:

Gordon wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:16am:

[
Monis got lucky that amongst the hostages there were no trained people to take him out. I don't blame them.

Thats it. But I would add experienced trained people. Most trained martial artists find their fine motor skills go out the window in a situation requiring life and death split second decisions.

There was certainly no man trained to Australian SAS standards inside that building.
Those guys can kill with their bare hands in an instant.

Don't believe everything you read in the press...... it's possible... not easy to do.

Don't ever risk it against those guys!
They are strong like bulls.

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rhino

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #51 - May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:21pm

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:05pm:

rhino wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 10:50pm:

Gordon wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:16am:

[
Monis got lucky that amongst the hostages there were no trained people to take him out. I don't blame them.

Thats it. But I would add experienced trained people. Most trained martial artists find their fine motor skills go out the window in a situation requiring life and death split second decisions.

There was certainly no man trained to Australian SAS standards inside that building.
Those guys can kill with their bare hands in an instant.

The SAS guys have a broad range of skills, unarmed combat is amongst them but not predominate. But they certainly are exposed to stressful situations the average person is not. Killing would not be the objective here as such but immediate disabling of the perp. The last person you would want is some idiot like Valkie who thinks hes a tough guy.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #52 - May 24^th, 2017 at 12:57am

Sorry - but in the situation where a hostage had been killed.... I said it before - all bets are off. You show your rag-head and it gets blown off, and no chances are taken that there are any bombs or dead man switches etc.

Nobody gets to push a button or even handle a mobile phone.

You don't know much, do you? NO chance is taken, and if that means dire outcomes for the perps - tough luck and no sleep lost.

What the Hell is any unarmed combat skill going to do in a stand-up gun fight?

In THIS situation, the police officers had to act as best they could, and they did get the perp. I'll guarantee you that none of them was prepared to go hand-to-hand with Mad Man Monis unless absolutely necessary - at the moment of intrusion, he was a dead man, and not by hands etc... by disciplined gun fire.

No way that d1ck was walking out of that place.... feet first on a stretcher was his only option.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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UnSubRocky

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #53 - May 24^th, 2017 at 1:08am

Gordon wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 9:46am:

This should be interesting.

The NSW Police totally botched the whole thing. They should have just called SAS who would have breached within 2 hours and given Monis a 3rd eye with no hostages harmed.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/05/16/4669879.htm

Police have specialised units in Sydney who are trained to deal with this situation. The problem being that it seems the supervisors were looking at a peaceful resolution due to the cucked nature of not wanting to look xenophobic/racist/islamophobic in the international media. Had it been a white guy doing a hostage situation, the police would have gunned him down in little time.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #54 - May 24^th, 2017 at 1:12am

cods wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 9:54am:

in hindsight gordy..the blame lies with that magistrate that gave him bail...when do they take the blame the cops do what they are directed to do..

there is no one size fits all in a situation like that....

this man should have been deported years ago.. blame everyone.

We can't blame the magistrate for the death of people. We can criticise the judge for allowing bail in a case of Monis being alleged an accessory to murder. However, I mean, even a situation of a judge denying bail, perhaps Monis would have been out and doing this hostage scene a few years later. Monis should have been on his medication a long time ago. That would have reduced considerably the likelihood of his insane actions.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #55 - May 24^th, 2017 at 1:56am

UnSubRocky wrote on May 24^th, 2017 at 1:08am:

Gordon wrote on May 22^nd, 2017 at 9:46am:

This should be interesting.

The NSW Police totally botched the whole thing. They should have just called SAS who would have breached within 2 hours and given Monis a 3rd eye with no hostages harmed.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2017/05/16/4669879.htm

Police have specialised units in Sydney who are trained to deal with this situation. The problem being that it seems the supervisors were looking at a peaceful resolution due to the cucked nature of not wanting to look xenophobic/racist/islamophobic in the international media. Had it been a white guy doing a hostage situation, the police would have gunned him down in little time.

Looking at a peaceful resolution is not a problem.. it is SOP.

NOBODY 'waited' until someone was killed - they managed the situation as per the rules and tried to bring everyone out alive.

Mad Man Monis was the problem... and he got his just fate.... sadly too late....

I've already explained that specialised police units are part-time and that no police force can employ a full-time unit dedicated to siege breaking.... professional siege breakers are trained massively for a lengthy period of time as I've laid out before... and are only available for extreme situations.

UNLESS the situation is clearly beyond the control of the civil authorities, military forces can NOT be employed, and negotiation is the proven way towards resolution.

The only outcome from this coronial inquiry MAY be that more focus needs to be employed on training first response siege breaking officers - of any stamp, and that selection for that duty may be different in some ways.

The rest is window dressing and playing to an emotionally charged public audience...

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« Last Edit: May 24^th, 2017 at 2:04am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bobby.

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #56 - May 24^th, 2017 at 6:41am

rhino wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 11:05pm:

rhino wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 10:50pm:

Gordon wrote on May 23^rd, 2017 at 8:16am:

[
Monis got lucky that amongst the hostages there were no trained people to take him out. I don't blame them.

Thats it. But I would add experienced trained people. Most trained martial artists find their fine motor skills go out the window in a situation requiring life and death split second decisions.

There was certainly no man trained to Australian SAS standards inside that building.
Those guys can kill with their bare hands in an instant.

The SAS guys have a broad range of skills, unarmed combat is amongst them but not predominate. But they certainly are exposed to stressful situations the average person is not. Killing would not be the objective here as such but immediate disabling of the perp.

The last person you would want is some idiot like Valkie who thinks hes a tough guy.

We need more tough people like Valkie.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20231 Gordon Gender:	Re: 4 Corners - The Siege Reply #57 - May 24^th, 2017 at 12:47pm Lindt cafe siege inquest: police waited too long, coroner finds
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Gordon

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Re: 4 Corners - The Siege
Reply #58 - May 24^th, 2017 at 12:50pm

This is exactly what I've been saying.

Reconsideration of the "entrenched" philosophy of "contain and negotiate" with a view to create "more proactive" strategies.

a clarification of the legal powers of snipers to shoot.

the threshold for calling out the Australian Defence Force in domestic terrorism situations should be reviewed.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20231 Gordon Gender:	Re: 4 Corners - The Siege Reply #59 - May 24^th, 2017 at 1:48pm Psychology, mostly pseudo-science. The psychologist brought in to consult police was strongly criticised - he was permitted to give advice about police tactics, made erroneous and unrealistic assessments about what was happening and went beyond his area of expertise to give advice about Islamic terrorism.
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