Australian Politics Forum - Caesar's version of Islam

moses

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #60 - May 26^th, 2017 at 5:29pm

karnal wrote
Quote:

They have indeed, Moses. And yet they follow a book far more violent and sinister than the Muselman.

What does this tell you?

karnal,

thankyou for once again giving me the opportunity to explain why islam is a death cult:

I have repeatedly asked you to show us how the Torah is more violent you've never come up with the goods.

So the explanation is obvious:

The O.T. (I have no knowledge of what is exactly in the Torah) contains no teachings of violence which can be read as relevant to the 21st century, if read today they are all in the past tense.

Conversely:

If read today the qur'an is in the present tense.

The qur'an contains commands to hate, torture and kill non muslims as the highest path for muslims, the qur'an says that allah purposely causes these non believers to be the way they are.

So we have a death cult (islam) with muslims as the chosen butchers of allah, who have the sanctified right to murder innocent people who allah has caused to go astray.

The combination of a qur'an in the present tense, muslims who utterly believe they have a sanctified duty to practice the depravity in the qur'an as a consecrated right, results in muslims plying their degenerate islamic deeds of torture and murder of innocent people around the globe.

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« Last Edit: May 26^th, 2017 at 5:36pm by moses »

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #61 - May 26^th, 2017 at 9:51pm yes moses apparently only Aussie is fooled by karnal's dissembling and lies. Sad on both their behalf... Apparently Aussie doesn't understand what History or the past is.... and karnal is just happy to lead him on with dishonesty.
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Aussie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #62 - May 26^th, 2017 at 10:09pm

Grendel wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 9:51pm:

yes moses apparently only Aussie is fooled by karnal's dissembling and lies.
Sad on both their behalf... Cheesy

Apparently Aussie doesn't understand what History or the past is.... and karnal is just happy to lead him on with dishonesty.

Grendel....is tithing a thing of the past.....mere OT history having no place in the World today?

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Frank

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #63 - May 26^th, 2017 at 10:17pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

moses wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 10:14am:

Aussie wrote; Reply #35 - Yesterday at 6:30pm

Quote:

Do they follow the OT, Moses?

In what way?

Are you referring to ancient text which tells of a barbaric society some 4000 years ago?

It appears to me that the Jews have progressed with the times, we know they have contributed much to mankind, they are a successful peaceful nation surrounded by a barbaric mass of muslims. That's about as much as I can tell you about them.

Some Jews may have, some have not, Moses. Ultra-Orthodox Jews practice many of the same beliefs as do many Islamist Muslims. Except we know how bad the Islamists can be, do you recognise how bad the Ultra-Orthodox Jews can be?

Then we have the Jews who believe they should be able to steal the land from it's inhabitants, within the Occupied Territories, which Israel controls. They also believe that they can disinherit the Palestinians within Israel. Are they all "peaceful people"?

No one, including Muslims or Jews deserves to be persecuted, Moses. Do you recognise the persecution that many Jews and Muslims suffer from, from Christians? Anti-Semitism was invented in England in the Medieval period of history. Islamophobia appears to have been invented in the mid-20th century. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

The Jews are taking back what is theirs in Israel. That's all there is to it.

The Muslims want you to believe think that once they conquer something it's their for ever. But it doesn't work like that.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #64 - May 26^th, 2017 at 11:12pm LOL that rant was really funny bwian, especially that bit about Christians.... Dr of Divinity
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Brian Ross

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #65 - May 27^th, 2017 at 12:43am

Frank wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 10:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

moses wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 10:14am:

Aussie wrote; Reply #35 - Yesterday at 6:30pm

Quote:

Do they follow the OT, Moses?

In what way?

Are you referring to ancient text which tells of a barbaric society some 4000 years ago?

It appears to me that the Jews have progressed with the times, we know they have contributed much to mankind, they are a successful peaceful nation surrounded by a barbaric mass of muslims. That's about as much as I can tell you about them.

Some Jews may have, some have not, Moses. Ultra-Orthodox Jews practice many of the same beliefs as do many Islamist Muslims. Except we know how bad the Islamists can be, do you recognise how bad the Ultra-Orthodox Jews can be?

Then we have the Jews who believe they should be able to steal the land from it's inhabitants, within the Occupied Territories, which Israel controls. They also believe that they can disinherit the Palestinians within Israel. Are they all "peaceful people"?

No one, including Muslims or Jews deserves to be persecuted, Moses. Do you recognise the persecution that many Jews and Muslims suffer from, from Christians? Anti-Semitism was invented in England in the Medieval period of history. Islamophobia appears to have been invented in the mid-20th century. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

The Jews are taking back what is theirs in Israel. That's all there is to it.

So, you'd be quite happy to support the Indigenous Australians who suggest that they should, "take back what is theirs'"? Afterall, their claim is even older than the Jews' is in Palestine, Soren.

Or you going to fight them for it?

Quote:

The Muslims want you to believe think that once they conquer something it's their for ever. But it doesn't work like that.

Maybe so, however, the Israelis are recognised as the de jure government of the day. We know you support persecution and ethnic cleansing, Soren, so I suppose we should be surprised by your effort to deny the Palestinians their land which they have held for longer than white colonists have been in Australia... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #66 - May 27^th, 2017 at 10:20am Here we go bwian being ridiculous to support his whimsical view of the world... Dr of Stupidity eh... Why is it the LW progs are all anti-semite??????
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Frank

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #67 - May 27^th, 2017 at 1:50pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2017 at 12:43am:

So, you'd be quite happy to support the Indigenous Australians who suggest that they should, "take back what is theirs'"? Afterall, their claim is even older than the Jews' is in Palestine, Soren.

Or you going to fight them for it?

Well, they ARE trying to take i back, aren't they?
Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2017 at 12:43am:

Maybe so, however, the Israelis are recognised as the de jure government of the day. We know you support persecution and ethnic cleansing, Soren, so I suppose we should be surprised by your effort to deny the Palestinians their land which they have held for longer than white colonists have been in Australia... Roll Eyes

Israel has nothing to do with Australia.

And why do you say I support ethnic cleansing? Because I recognise Israel's right to exist in peace? It's a tiny sliver of democracy in the vast sea of a billion strong Muslim backwardness - and the Muslims will not rest until they eliminate that little democratic country, which they blame for their own centuries of backwardness.

If the Muslim Arabs had any brains they would embrace Israel, it could be their anchor for development.

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Aussie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #68 - May 27^th, 2017 at 3:15pm

Aussie wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 10:09pm:

Grendel wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 9:51pm:

yes moses apparently only Aussie is fooled by karnal's dissembling and lies.
Sad on both their behalf... Cheesy

Apparently Aussie doesn't understand what History or the past is.... and karnal is just happy to lead him on with dishonesty.

Grendel....is tithing a thing of the past.....mere OT history having no place in the World today?

Grendel?

Question too hard, or would you be wasting your time answering, or should I do a google and get the answer for you....you know, do your homework..that sort of thing.

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Grendel

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #69 - May 27^th, 2017 at 3:24pm

Aussie wrote on May 27^th, 2017 at 3:15pm:

Aussie wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 10:09pm:

Grendel wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 9:51pm:

yes moses apparently only Aussie is fooled by karnal's dissembling and lies.
Sad on both their behalf... Cheesy

Apparently Aussie doesn't understand what History or the past is.... and karnal is just happy to lead him on with dishonesty.

Grendel....is tithing a thing of the past.....mere OT history having no place in the World today?

Grendel?

Question too hard, or would you be wasting your time answering, or should I do a google and get the answer for you....you know, do your homework..that sort of thing.

No Aussie, I'm ignoring your ignorant trolling that's all... you don't get it when I make a point that is easy to get... everyone else seems to get it... so why should I waste more time with you who seems to never get it. Cheesy

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Frank

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #70 - May 27^th, 2017 at 9:56pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 27^th, 2017 at 12:43am:

Frank wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 10:17pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 5:06pm:

moses wrote on May 26^th, 2017 at 10:14am:

Aussie wrote; Reply #35 - Yesterday at 6:30pm

Quote:

Do they follow the OT, Moses?

In what way?

Are you referring to ancient text which tells of a barbaric society some 4000 years ago?

It appears to me that the Jews have progressed with the times, we know they have contributed much to mankind, they are a successful peaceful nation surrounded by a barbaric mass of muslims. That's about as much as I can tell you about them.

Some Jews may have, some have not, Moses. Ultra-Orthodox Jews practice many of the same beliefs as do many Islamist Muslims. Except we know how bad the Islamists can be, do you recognise how bad the Ultra-Orthodox Jews can be?

Then we have the Jews who believe they should be able to steal the land from it's inhabitants, within the Occupied Territories, which Israel controls. They also believe that they can disinherit the Palestinians within Israel. Are they all "peaceful people"?

No one, including Muslims or Jews deserves to be persecuted, Moses. Do you recognise the persecution that many Jews and Muslims suffer from, from Christians? Anti-Semitism was invented in England in the Medieval period of history. Islamophobia appears to have been invented in the mid-20th century. Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

The Jews are taking back what is theirs in Israel. That's all there is to it.

So, you'd be quite happy to support the Indigenous Australians who suggest that they should, "take back what is theirs'"? Afterall, their claim is even older than the Jews' is in Palestine, Soren.

Or you going to fight them for it?

Quote:

The Muslims want you to believe think that once they conquer something it's their for ever. But it doesn't work like that.

Maybe so, however, the Israelis are recognised as the de jure government of the day. We know you support persecution and ethnic cleansing, Soren, so I suppose we should be surprised by your effort to deny the Palestinians their land which they have held for longer than white colonists have been in Australia... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #71 - May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am

Quote:

Ok, so the idea that the Quran is inerrant or 'not corrupted' means that the current text of the Quran is the same as it was dictated through Muhammad; it DOES NOT MEAN that it is PERFECT FROM A MORAL OR ETHICAL viewpoint.

Yes it does. Are you suggesting Muslims do not consider God, and the word of God, to be morally perfect?

Quote:

Then, there are verses such as: "There shall be no compulsion in religion." So, why are you selectively choosing the violent verses?

Why are you selectively discarding them?

Quote:

Exactly, his messenger, not warlord, leader or spiritual advisor.

What if his message is of a plitical, military or spirtual nature?

Quote:

Muhammad's role was always just to be a 'warner' nothing more.

What makes you think that?

Quote:

Moses, interpretation includes ignoring verses. I don't re-interpret the violent verses, I just ignore them.

Why?

Quote:

I don't think Augie's talking about "Islam", FD. He's talking about reading.

You have to read it to decide whether to ignore it.

Quote:

It only destroys it because of how people see religion. Most religious people see religion as they truth. I don't see religion that way. No religion or ideology has a monopoly on the truth.

How do you see it?

Quote:

So, no you don't understand my approach. On what logic do I disregard what I disagree with?

You just spent a few pages telling us you ignore the violent bits.

Quote:

Why is it the LW progs are all anti-semite??????

Perhaps it is because Israel is a triumph of freedom and democracy over barbarism. It is a modern demonstration of a revolution that has been going on for centuries and reshaping the world, which they denounce of cultural imperialism. They would rather defend freedom and democracy by surrendering it at every opportunity, in the belief that everyone is really nice at heart and they will give it back if we don't say anything mean about them.

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Auggie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #72 - May 28^th, 2017 at 6:02pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am:

Yes it does. Are you suggesting Muslims do not consider God, and the word of God, to be morally perfect?

So, do you think that God would command a person to kill another person? Where scripture calls for the killing of person by another person, that is not the word of God but of human beings.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am:

Why are you selectively discarding them?

Because, it is irrational to kill another person because they have dissimilar beliefs to you.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am:

What if his message is of a plitical, military or spirtual nature?

Why would God care about political, or military matters? If God is omniscient (all-knowing) he would know that any political system is based on the societies of the time; that is to say, that God would've know about our current society today, so why would He dictate a certain way of life to anyone?

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am:

What makes you think that?

Because most of the Quran refers to him as that way. The Prophet was only used later on after he migrated to Medina. So, what? God just all of sudden changes His mind?

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am:

Why?

Because it's irrational to kill another person because they don't believe in what you believe.

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am:

How do you see it?

Religion is a lived-experience; it is a recollection of peoples' spiritual experience. Why the hell would God say that there is one truth?

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 11:40am:

You just spent a few pages telling us you ignore the violent bits.

The crux of my argument is that the Quran is considered to be the Word of God. Therefore, you have to imagine what God would say to a person. The first 60% of the Quran talks about God punishing people; if God is omnipotent then He would punish them. Why then does God change His mind and then command Muhammad or another person to do what God does?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47313 At my desk.	Re: Caesar's version of Islam Reply #73 - May 28^th, 2017 at 6:36pm Perhaps a better question is, why are you so keen to rescue the 'good' bits? Is it God's word when he tells you which way to pray, or to rub sand on your genitals, but not when he tells you who to kill? Or is it only the fire and brimstone bits you want to rescue?
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Auggie

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Re: Caesar's version of Islam
Reply #74 - May 28^th, 2017 at 6:38pm

freediver wrote on May 28^th, 2017 at 6:36pm:

Perhaps a better question is, why are you so keen to rescue the 'good' bits? Is it God's word when he tells you which way to pray, or to rub sand on your genitals, but not when he tells you who to kill? Or is it only the fire and brimstone bits you want to rescue?

This is ultimately for you to decide. You have to imagine that God is all-knowing: i.e. God knew 2000 years ago what an iPhone was, and that FreeDriver and Caesar Augustus would be debating Him in 2017.

Imagine you're God... what would you say to a person? What reason would you have to tell a person how to pray?

If you're God... and you can take a life because you're omnipotent, then why would you ask a person to do your 'dirty work'?

You understand where I'm going with this?

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